spartaxoxo wrote: »

They said Endless Archive was for everyone. They have strongly implied that Arc 1 was specifically for casuals when they nerfed it because it was for a different target audience than later levels, which they also made reached more quickly.

But, they also said it was meant to be challenging and that solo players may have to adjust their builds.

Personally, I think that means "Endless Archive is meant everyone" means level of skill, not view of combat and challenge. If someone doesn't like challenge, I don't think they'll enjoy the archive.

But did they say how challenging? Something like Maelstrom Arena difficulty which is solo and has a final boss that isn't nearly as challenging as Arc 1 Tho'at is what I'd expect for the first and easiest Arc.

I am fine with each Arc becoming more challenging and know I will only be able to progress so far, but going immediately from zero to 60 is too much too fast. This could be a lot of fun for a lot of players if the difficulty of Arc 1 Tho'at didn't prevent so many from being able to progress any further. There should be at least a few Arcs that the average player could work through and learn from and hone their skills so they could be prepared to progress even further if they wish.

If I'm correct Tho'at is only the final boss for the first 4 Arcs, so decreasing their difficulty will not change anything beyond that, and it would give the average players more of the content to enjoy.

tomofhyrule wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

If I'm correct Tho'at is only the final boss for the first 4 Arcs, so decreasing their difficulty will not change anything beyond that, and it would give the average players more of the content to enjoy.

Tho'at is still the boss of every arc. She just stops adding new mechanics after the fourth and then just goes for more health/damage.

Why do ALL the mechanics have to be introduced early in the EA in what are supposed to be the easiest levels? Why does the difficulty have to ramp up that far that fast?

I'd really like to enjoy this but the frustration with this boss is already turning this from something fun to just a daily task to run Arc 1 up to Tho'at for the currency then leave.

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

Yeah I mean I think this is the issue that came up on PTS and that all of us are dancing around in one way or another.

There are clearly players who find the difficulty level of certain bosses in the first arc to be off-putting.

Then you have someone like me who is basically already done with EA because the first two arcs are so mind numbingly boring, and I don't have enough time in one sitting to reach the part where I feel challenged and enjoy the content. I can't just take half a day off from real life to try and beat my score.

By trying to design the content for everyone at once, I feel like they actually managed to make it unenjoyable for people at both ends of the spectrum, just in different ways.

I said almost this exact same thing week one of the PTS. Sure they removed one phase of trash, but they did little for the low end player like myself, as 68+ bosses is REALLY hard for me to memory hole and I die constantly. The high end players likewise that have already been there/done that and bought the t-shirt, are stuck with doing all the boring arcs to get to what they find challenging. Kinda a lose/lose IMO with only those in the middle really enjoying it.

I'm just skipping it for now and maybe, just maybe they will see the numbers fall enough that they will add in switch to make the players happy. Not holding my breath though.

Edit: Oh yea I forgot I said I was not going to comment anymore on this thread... Nevermind then.

I have no stake in this, reading out of curiosity. There are definitely things I'm frustrated about in the Archive, but combat isn't one of them. And I'm not a "sweaty" player -

Just for context, I mostly do Normal content. I rarely do dungeons or trials. I enjoy being OP. I like being strong enough to solo some dungeons, mostly for efficiency. But I don't play this game for combat for its own sake. I've done some Vet stuff and worked to at least pull my weight. But my only motivation are some cosmetic rewards.

Likewise here with EA: I wanted the dye. I got the dye. I am done with everything past Arc 2-3.

I find Arc 1-2 cycles easy. Tho'at v1 was a little bit challenging for me solo, now it's easy too. I never thought I'd beat Tho'at v2 by myself, but I did! By changing my build a little bit. That's it though. I struggle with Tho'at 3 even in duos with a tank. Then the mob cycles in 4 were insane, even spawning garbage from the boss fights. I don't enjoy it, it's exhausting to me and not something I get a sense of accomplishment from.

I see EA as made specifically for people who do enjoy combat for combat's sake. Not for me, and I'm ok with that.

The fact that the rewards mainly drop furnishings (which I love) is bewildering, but maybe just a carrot on a stick for those of us who wouldn't have touched it otherwise (it worked). I'm glad those rewards are mostly attainable at levels I can do.

So, I wanted to add this because I'm not someone who'd say everything is "faceroll easy", I don't like that, it doesn't help anyone. I remember what it's like to even be scared of some overland areas, years ago. I wasn't able to solo WBs, now I stomp them. Mostly it's just getting higher CP and improving build. That or reading online what I'm missing about some mechanic and correcting it.

EA is also way WAY easier with a human duo. I'd recommend partnering if it's too hard alone and you just want to clear the daily.

But Tho'at v2 and onward are way harder than v1. If Tho'at v1 is torturous, the rest isn't going to be fun. Making it easier would mostly mean more mob-monotony. In earnest, if you don't like what this is at its core (a grind-fest for grind-lovers) why would you want to do more?

MoonPile wrote: »

In earnest, if you don't like what this is at its core (a grind-fest for grind-lovers) why would you want to do more?

Because I do like what this is.

I like that this is not just another arena where we stand there and wait for waves of mobs.
I like that there are side mini games that are a lot of fun.
I like that there are side quests as well as the daily that give me some objectives besides just killing stuff.
I like that there are achievements with rewards. I got a memento tonight that I acutally used and I don't normally care about mementos. (Summoned Booknado)
I like that every stage we complete we get to choose a verse that helps us as we move through the Archive.
I like that this is not just another arena or another dungeon because of its unique features and it's own currencies and rewards that can be earned or purchased.

This is why i want to experience more than just Arc 1.

SilverBride wrote: »

I like that this is not just another arena where we stand there and wait for waves of mobs.
I like that there are side mini games that are a lot of fun.
I like that there are side quests as well as the daily that give me some objectives besides just killing stuff.
I like that there are achievements with rewards. I got a memento tonight that I acutally used and I don't normally care about mementos. (Summoned Booknado)
I like that every stage we complete we get to choose a verse that helps us as we move through the Archive.
I like that this is not just another arena or another dungeon because of its unique features and it's own currencies and rewards that can be earned or purchased.
...

I liked many of those things too. Past tense because I learned that this fun expires once you're locked into higher difficulties on the portals, account-wide. Meaning more frustration, higher rate of failure, overall fewer rewards. That's the thing I'm most salty about personally.

But re: experiencing more, that's kind of the thing. There isn't more. All of that stuff listed stays exactly the same. Repeat runs in Arc 1 give you everything there is (minus the dye and some titles, if you care about those).

In later arcs it's just interspersed with increasingly tiring combat - AKA the main draw, most enjoyable bit for others. Mostly it really is just waves of mobs, which nobody at either end of the spectrum seems to like, and from what I gather, people on PTS spoke up about to little avail.

Edit: Actually... this made me realize something. I don't have to care about Filer's Wing anymore, that I cannot pass at 4/5. Having seen what else is in EA, I'm good. I don't need that Visions upgrade. So yeah, I'm gonna be walking straight back out the portal next time I see that Watcher boss, who's infinitely disappointed in me. Only sucks that it spawns way more often than the doable ones, replacing chances for rewards.

There is no way The Serpent and Rakkhat should be in aArc 1. Even with a lower HP they are not something the average player can deal with. They are way harder than Tho 'at V1 and even the marauders who only show up at Arc 2.

Braffin wrote: »

Sirona_Starr wrote: »

mercer_cap wrote: »

Sirona_Starr wrote: »

mercer_cap wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

mercer_cap wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

ajkb78 wrote: »

I think the ideal solution would be to have the difficulty ramp up more slowly, so new players or players who want to solo or play with companions without feeling like the companion is a complete joke, or players with dexterity issues can play through multiple arcs. At present they pretty much get arc 1 and that's it.

This is exactly what the problem is and what should happen. Thank you.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin Please take this into consideration. I would love to be able to enjoy more of this new feature.

ironically that is kindof how it was on the PTS before all of the changes and complaints that it was "too easy" and "boring" by the upper echelons of the PVE community.

I am perfectly fine if the content scales as time goes on, just that it scales within reason.

Endless Archive was sold to us as a progressive endurance test, not an opportunity for all of the ESO bosses to take revenge for all of the times they died to players.

But it's still like that isn't it?

For the first two arcs you have to do absolutely nothing except burn the adds and bosses, get out of bad AoE and enter good AoE. In arc 3 you need to be a bit more tanky and conscious of your environment and only when in arc 4 you start to rely on your offensive vision gathered, of which you should have had 9 choices already. (EDIT: for example the 37% offensive penetration one + ferocious strikes (15% bleed), ferocious support (50k+ bleed), focused efforts (200% status effect damage), attuned enchantments (60% stronger glyphs) on a heavy attack build. You will bleed everything into oblivion by just even looking at it, and this example might not even be the strongest).

Only at that point you really need to start thinking. Be aware of everything around you, kite, kite, kite, get out of bad AoE, get in good AoE, heal yourself, interrupt. But before you reach that point, it costs you two hours of cheesing through the archive already..

My point is: playing two hours before anything challenging starts is perfectly withing reason in terms of difficulty scaling.

Depends on the player. Some of us struggle to get past arc 1.

If the scaling isn't changed then I suggest the threads change. 3 lives and your done.... is excessive with the current scale imo.

At least give us a verse that grants an additional life.

Well to be honest, arc 1 is as hard as normal Fungal Grotto 1. That is really the beginning of the game in terms of instanced content. Heck, the gathering of all the adds at the first boss inf nFG1 does more damage on you than anything in arc 1 in EA.

Of course, it is not fun to be stuck somewhere with the feeling you did everything what was in your power to complete it. Fortunately usually experience comes with time and some time later content considered to be to hard might be suddenly possible because the player has grown.

Maybe a solution for this would be that you cannot be wiped in arc 1? Sure, lose your threads, but even with 0 threads you get the possibility to finish arc 1 and the daily quest?

Edit: there is vision that gives you an additional thread, though you can only use it once in a run! Also you can buy an upgrade for an extra thread once you've completed one of the sidequest achievements. But the best of all (this one saved my life more than once): there is a verse that won't make you lose a thread once you die. Especially in later arcs when you only have 1 thread left it is available quite often.

There are no trial bosses in FG I, there is no Tho'at in FG I there are no DLC bosses in FG I. This is a false compariosn. In no way is Arc I as easy as FG I.

It is not a false comparison. The damage you get in FG1 is at least as high if not bigger. And also in FG1 you need to get out of stupid, or you die xD

You realise that the trial bosses in arc 1 absolutely do not resemble the full trial boss? Damage has been toned down, mechanics have been changed or removed etc. For example with the serpent: you only have to get into the green AoE when is is about to explode and you will complete it. It's not a DPS race whatsoever

How many players actually do trials? I do trials on normal, and yes, I know they have been tuned down. So what?
Again, I can easily solo FG I normal on all my toons. It remains a false comparison. I cannot easily solo Arc I on all my toons. In fact, I cannot solo it on any of my toons.

Did you try to adjust your builds, how zos is expecting you to for EA?
Did you pay attention to mechanics?

Yeah, I really don’t get the claims that it’s too hard. For some context, I recently returned to the game after a four year break, on a low CP account (~CP 500) with absolutely no gear. All my good farmed gear is on my PS4 account.

I easily solo’ed arc 1 of EA for the first time the other day on a magicka khajiit Templar equipped only with purple crafted gear (Seducer and Order’s Wrath) and a sustain monster set (Grundwulf). Six light pieces, one heavy. Didn’t even have all Undaunted passives on the character. In other words, a very non-optimized class/race and gear combo, especially for EA. I died once to Tho’at as I didn’t look up any mechanics beforehand. It was easy to figure out why I died, and didn’t have any issues whatsoever with the next attempt.

I wouldn’t necessarily say EA is as easy as solo FG1 on normal, but it’s definitely as easy as normal Maelstrom Arena (easier, actually — fewer mechanics).

I personally found EA utterly boring and don’t see myself doing it much outside of endeavours.

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

There is no way The Serpent and Rakkhat should be in aArc 1. Even with a lower HP they are not something the average player can deal with. They are way harder than Tho 'at V1 and even the marauders who only show up at Arc 2.

what is difficult about serpent or rakkhat? serpent you just kill the totems that pop up and heal through the bursts she does every once a while. rakkhat when its doing the machine gun attack you go to the golden circles which gives you resistance to again just heal through it without even blocking. then you move out of the circle cuz its gonna jump there and turn it blue which you should avoid.
well i realize since they are trial bosses most players might not know the mechanics but really there isn't much else to them.

Aurielle wrote: »

nMA was difficult the first time I did it years and years ago. I didn’t think I’d ever complete it. I persisted, and eventually it became so easy that I use it occasionally to level up alts.

People clamouring for nerfs to arc 1 just need to spend a little more time with it, and possibly need to build a little tankier. You can use crafted gear. Don’t need to spend lots of time or gold gearing up for arc 1.

i can add to that, i thoroughly remember the times when you couldn't get weapons from nMA, you had to complete it on vet to get anything. back when 30k dps was considered to be really good. i remember having to literally practice on normal for maybe weeks before i can even do anything on vet. content was difficult yet doable.

not to be that guy but if you just put in the effort everything is doable

My problem in learning the mechs after getting beat by a boss I don't know is the next time I go back it is a different boss.

But when I go back it is a different boss if I was on my last thread and have to reset.
I guess I will have to not try to defeat the boss and look it up before fighting and that spoils the challenge.
I like to try to figure a boss out before looking it up.
And scrolling through a video is a pain I prefer to google a boss.
Oh well, it is what it is.
PvP player, btw.

Nothing to stop you googling the boss before you fight him either. I usually try once before looking up, but if it is my last thread I look up first unless I forget.

Galeriano wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

MoonPile wrote: »

In earnest, if you don't like what this is at its core (a grind-fest for grind-lovers) why would you want to do more?

Because I do like what this is.

I like that this is not just another arena where we stand there and wait for waves of mobs.
I like that there are side mini games that are a lot of fun.
I like that there are side quests as well as the daily that give me some objectives besides just killing stuff.
I like that there are achievements with rewards. I got a memento tonight that I acutally used and I don't normally care about mementos. (Summoned Booknado)
I like that every stage we complete we get to choose a verse that helps us as we move through the Archive.
I like that this is not just another arena or another dungeon because of its unique features and it's own currencies and rewards that can be earned or purchased.

This is why i want to experience more than just Arc 1.

Well than get better in terms of setup and Your skill and continue Your journey.

I am "better". I've put a lot of time and effort this year into farming gear sets and monster sets and mythic gear (and I hate farming) and looking up and trying different builds for every one of my characters. And I went from not doing any end game content to completing every base game and DLC dungeon on normal, and every base game dungeon on veteran, and am working on getting all the DLC dungeons on veteran now.

This isn't a matter of needing to get "better". It's about Tho'at being disproportionately more difficult than the rest of the Arc. And it's about Tho'at getting all of their mechanics in the first 4 Arcs which are supposed to be the easiest ones.

This is what needs to be adjusted.