Please fix Endless Archive difficulty

Lucinator

I don't know what the content team (probably the same people who came up with the Nymic Bastion debacle) were thinking with the direction they took this but they seriously ruined what promised to be the best new game experience in years. This mode has so much potential however several related design and balance decisions made it unplayable to many in the game. The first was the lack of a normal and veteran mode, the difficulty is the same for everyone, now this would not be a problem except for issue#2 the difficulty ramps up way to fast. The first Arc alone ramps up from veteran mode maelstrom arena to veteran Vastran by the end of the first arc. In that first arc im fighting bosses with 12m hitpoints. and look those arenas take a lot of work to beat, I doubt I would be able to if they had problem#3, only three lives. I may not be the best player in the game but I'm at least average or slightly above average, and I still cant get through the first Arc though eventually I might be able to eventually this is supposed to be something that ramps up so it was supposed to be something that would make this accessible to even casual players and this most certainly isn't. And Problem#4 wont make it as incentivized either and that is that the rewards don't even remotely reflect the difficulty. I spent over four hours yesterday on it and came away with about 2k of the new currency. Telvar stones are way easier to get. All in all I want to conclude with some recommendations. Split up the thing into normal and veteran, Casual players would get to at least experience one Arc and normal players could get a couple before it ramped up to veteran levels of difficulty. And the top 20% of players could just jump into veteran mode which would be like the difficulty we have now so they skip some of the ramp up. Second up the rewards a lot, even if made much easier the rewards would still need to be upped since frankly they are not worth it.


UPDATE:
[Snip], what i went through must have been a bug or some other [Snip] crap, as I did it again today and dear god was it easier. I can do 30-50k real world solo dam with my 1 bar sorc and can solo most world bosses up to blackwood. I thought that was about average. And it wasnt a typo I was really getting bosses with 12m yesterday. My best guess is that there are certain instances that are bugged. ZOS please fix.
That said I think my original point is still valid in that the first arc was still harder than soloing a base game dungeon and I know a lot of casual players in my guild that cant do that, they should at least ease up on the first arc difficulty for them.

[Edited for bait/bash]

Kisakee

If you can't even complete Arc 1 you're probably below what i would call an average player (no front).

Average to me is like having fitting sets (pe B rank meta like Nirn + Deadly for an Arcanist DD) with correct traits and golden weapons + purple armor and jewelry. An A rank would have Trial gear and all golden stuff where S tier would be simply training any experience in harder content. Arc 1 is like B-C rank, Arc 2 A-B rank and in Arc 3 you're getting into A-S rank difficulty.

I'm totally fine with the current difficulty as it's giving you an opportunity to train harder content on your own. Also it's not meant to be "done" within some days, they want you to chew on it for weeks and months. So i say keep it the way it is and if you want to go further you need to improve.

Erissime

True that. I am an average player and I breezed through the 1st arc. Heck, I breeze through the second one too - except the last boss. So any inputs on what's the mechanic with that tho’ at replicanum boss? Because I am as average as to not get what else am I supposed to do in there ( arc 2 - arc 1 it dies fine and well) - other than just run around (boss cue - "I want to see you run!") and stay alive. And that I cannot do. Top I ever got that boss (before I was overwhelmed by aoes and the many things happening around) - was about 50% . Then I get one-slapped into Oblivion by something or other (seeing that I have no time to do much beyond shield/heal/run) - so mobs gather, even if I almost one-shot the little ones. I have a feeling Atronachs are supposed to die but ... eh... they seem about as hard as the boss so I kind of skipped them :P - Please help? (with real inputs, not just what I found online like: "Once you clear this boss you're fine) . The "how" is what interests me - ty! (and no video links pls, I hate those - time-consuming, full of nonsense for what should be put in a sentence: Focus on that, pay attention to the other, shield then, roll - dodge that particular thing etc. - usually how mechanics stand).

Also if this post is inappropriate for the thread, please someone to guide me towards some proper EA mechanics talk - because all I find is rant and complaints.

Ah and to still underline what average is - proper players probably reached arc 5 by now if not finished it already. That is actual meta-end-gamers, whatever it is they're called.

Dragonnord

I'm sorry OP but, opposite to what you say, Arc 1 is way too easy, and the difficulty of Endless Archive is fine and fair.

With all due respect, you should improve your build, skills and playing as a whole.
 

Dragonnord

Also, the rewards are fine too, I really like what they offer and the system implemented, mostly because one of the NPC's changes its stock weekly.
 

Castagere

The replies prove that not everyone can play this thing which they said could be soloed by everyone when they announced it. To the OP I would just forget about it. It wasn't made for you. It clearly is for arena and trials vets.

LokiPagan

Yeah, Tho'at needs to be nerfed, badly. I doubt even 5% of players will play past arc 1 as it is.

As for me, I played for three hours...and then I saw the piddly amount of currency I got compared to the prices of the rewards. ZOS has been moving towards more grind with each expansion - 10 public dungeon fragments, then 25, then 50...next expansion will probably be 100. They're trying to get players to play more and more, but it isn't fun, and it's going to burn people out.

If the devs think I'm spending hundreds of hours grinding currency in there for all the rewards, they've lost their minds. I'm not even bothering.

kevkj

Is it possible that you encountered a bug? I don't recall fighting any bosses with 12m HP in Arc 1.

jle30303

OP says "bosses with 12m hit points in the FIRST arc"

Now let's get a handle on that number.

BASE GAME world bosses are 1.8 million. The vast majority of players can't even solo those.

BASE GAME dungeon bosses are maybe 1.2-1.8 million on normal.

DLC world bosses have been recently getting up as far as 4-5 million, sometimes with adds, and in most cases aren't soloable by anybody except absolutely elite players.

The Deadlands Havocrels, and the Preserver of Galen, have 10 million HP each. These are not regarded as soloable by the average player.

"Average" players do not have complete sets of, say, Nirn (a DLC dungeon thing) and Deadly (a PVP outfit) all in correct traits. They might have, say, a base game dungeon outfit or a crafted. "Average" players are the ones still using things like Hundings, Julianos, Briarheart, Mothers Sorrow. If you're lucky. Certainly won't have a DLC monster helm, though they might just have a base-game monster helm and shoulders.

The "average" is not where you think it is.

An "Arc 1" boss, even a final one in a part of the game meant to be soloed, should not be throwing you right in at "Preserver of Galen" level.

fizzylu

I don't think arc 1 is too hard in a general sense.... but I do think the difficulty spike is a bit questionable between arcs and that some of the bosses should not be there period.

Castagere wrote: »

The replies prove that not everyone can play this thing which they said could be soloed by everyone when they announced it. To the OP I would just forget about it. It wasn't made for you. It clearly is for arena and trials vets.

I will also say, in my opinion Zenimax has once again "sold" a product as something it was not. They made Endless Archives out to be a "something for everyone" feature and it is anything but that. Even their focus on saying you could do it solo or with a companion as they were announcing it; I cannot even begin to imagine what sort of terrible experience that would be. I would never touch EA without a second player. What thoughts this leaves me with is.... is Zenimax just constantly not being forward with us about what it is that they are actually creating or are they that out of touch with their own content? I truly don't know anymore.

@LokiPagan
And I agree that the rewards are terrible. I'm at a point where instead of creating actually engaging, rewarding content that motivates people to WANT to play it over and over again.... I believe Zenimax are creating tedious, time consuming content that MAKES people have to play it over and over again.

Soarora

jle30303 wrote: »

OP says "bosses with 12m hit points in the FIRST arc"

Now let's get a handle on that number.

BASE GAME world bosses are 1.8 million. The vast majority of players can't even solo those.

BASE GAME dungeon bosses are maybe 1.2-1.8 million on normal.

DLC world bosses have been recently getting up as far as 4-5 million, sometimes with adds, and in most cases aren't soloable by anybody except absolutely elite players.

The Deadlands Havocrels, and the Preserver of Galen, have 10 million HP each. These are not regarded as soloable by the average player.

"Average" players do not have complete sets of, say, Nirn (a DLC dungeon thing) and Deadly (a PVP outfit) all in correct traits. They might have, say, a base game dungeon outfit or a crafted. "Average" players are the ones still using things like Hundings, Julianos, Briarheart, Mothers Sorrow. If you're lucky. Certainly won't have a DLC monster helm, though they might just have a base-game monster helm and shoulders.

The "average" is not where you think it is.

An "Arc 1" boss, even a final one in a part of the game meant to be soloed, should not be throwing you right in at "Preserver of Galen" level.

It'd be nice if ZOS could give us actual data on what the average player is because I have seen very different opinions. When I was a casual I had mixed attributes, livewire x trappings of invigoration, bow/bow sorcerer werewolf. Could still solo a base game world boss in my remembrance, with effort. Could solo vvardenfell world bosses too, I think. If the average casual is at least wearing sets that make sense then that'd put them above where I was. Not saying it's impossible that the average player isn't able to complete arc 1, I think the AoEs the boss drops are unfair, but it is really hard to tell what the average or majority really is.

colossalvoids

The first Arc alone ramps up from veteran mode maelstrom arena to veteran Vastran by the end of the first arc

Wasn't my experience at all, it definitely started with "normal" and got to the first or second VMA arena difficulty at the end of an arc, then started to ramp up a bit. In my hour and something time I've had never felt the levels of Vateshran, not even close. That's the issue, we're seeing it differently and our average is way different metrics from each other.

code65536

jle30303 wrote: »

OP says "bosses with 12m hit points in the FIRST arc"

Now let's get a handle on that number.

The "handle on that number" is, "OP most likely misplaced a decimal point".

12m health bosses do not exist in Arc 1. Or 2 or 3 or 4 or even 5. You don't see that kind of health level until you get very deep into EA.

Freelancer_ESO

jle30303 wrote: »

OP says "bosses with 12m hit points in the FIRST arc"

Now let's get a handle on that number.

BASE GAME world bosses are 1.8 million. The vast majority of players can't even solo those.

BASE GAME dungeon bosses are maybe 1.2-1.8 million on normal.

DLC world bosses have been recently getting up as far as 4-5 million, sometimes with adds, and in most cases aren't soloable by anybody except absolutely elite players.

The Deadlands Havocrels, and the Preserver of Galen, have 10 million HP each. These are not regarded as soloable by the average player.

"Average" players do not have complete sets of, say, Nirn (a DLC dungeon thing) and Deadly (a PVP outfit) all in correct traits. They might have, say, a base game dungeon outfit or a crafted. "Average" players are the ones still using things like Hundings, Julianos, Briarheart, Mothers Sorrow. If you're lucky. Certainly won't have a DLC monster helm, though they might just have a base-game monster helm and shoulders.

The "average" is not where you think it is.

An "Arc 1" boss, even a final one in a part of the game meant to be soloed, should not be throwing you right in at "Preserver of Galen" level.

The OP isn't actually fighting anything with 12m hp in the first go around.

I'd assume they either had a typo or a bug.

The last boss for the first go around is 2.3 m if I remember right.

boi_anachronism_

jle30303 wrote: »

OP says "bosses with 12m hit points in the FIRST arc"

Now let's get a handle on that number.

BASE GAME world bosses are 1.8 million. The vast majority of players can't even solo those.

BASE GAME dungeon bosses are maybe 1.2-1.8 million on normal.

DLC world bosses have been recently getting up as far as 4-5 million, sometimes with adds, and in most cases aren't soloable by anybody except absolutely elite players.

The Deadlands Havocrels, and the Preserver of Galen, have 10 million HP each. These are not regarded as soloable by the average player.

"Average" players do not have complete sets of, say, Nirn (a DLC dungeon thing) and Deadly (a PVP outfit) all in correct traits. They might have, say, a base game dungeon outfit or a crafted. "Average" players are the ones still using things like Hundings, Julianos, Briarheart, Mothers Sorrow. If you're lucky. Certainly won't have a DLC monster helm, though they might just have a base-game monster helm and shoulders.

The "average" is not where you think it is.

An "Arc 1" boss, even a final one in a part of the game meant to be soloed, should not be throwing you right in at "Preserver of Galen" level.

My friend mothers sorrow and orders wrath both cheap overworld in any trait and craftable with only a few traits researched can net you up to 90k. I dont agree that nirn and such are average new player sets, minotaurs in fh can still one shot you on normal however if you state you are average to above average, welp anyone at that level has generally atleast accomplished most normal dlcs except maybe the newer ones. Base game dlc most players fly through after a month or 2. You need very little dps and can largely ignore mechs. Id never played an mmo before this period and the base game dungeons are a joke. I was as a complete newbie able to solo base game normals without a grasp of mechanics at all by lvl 30ish. At that point i knew exactly one thing, go pew pew with random skills slotted that i didnt even understand. I brought one in with all white crafted gear with a couple traits and no cp slotted.

Arc 1 most certainly doesnt have bosses with 12m hp. They are around 1.1m and for a boss that is certainly not a wild figure and to be honest i dont know where you get the idea that an average player cant solo the abomination in deshaan for example. Extremely new players have a tough time with that, certainly not what most players consider average.

I hate to say this but i dont believe your synopsis of your skill set is average and certainly not above average and you might need to reevaluate.

My suggestion to you is to bring a companion or a friend until you have a better grasp of the combat.

Jaraal

There absolutely should be a non-scoring, lower rewards normal mode and a scoring, full rewards veteran mode for the Endless Archive.

I can see how it would be frustrating for players with no trial experience to try to solo a boss that outheals low damage output, and then one shots you.

Bobargus

I think there should be a normal mode for casuals, and a veteran mode for those who have the builds and gears.

When i say "normal mode for casuals", i mean overland level easiness being the first priority, perhaps normal dungeon level difficulty at most.

Not like arenas, veteran dungeons, or trials. Those should represent and belong to a "veteran" difficulty option only.

On that note: Developers, please do not try to keep casual and veteran players in the same difficulty scenarios, it will be like trying to maintain water and oil in the same bottle. In my opinion, it just won't work.

Firstmep

jle30303 wrote: »

OP says "bosses with 12m hit points in the FIRST arc"

Now let's get a handle on that number.

BASE GAME world bosses are 1.8 million. The vast majority of players can't even solo those.

BASE GAME dungeon bosses are maybe 1.2-1.8 million on normal.

DLC world bosses have been recently getting up as far as 4-5 million, sometimes with adds, and in most cases aren't soloable by anybody except absolutely elite players.

The Deadlands Havocrels, and the Preserver of Galen, have 10 million HP each. These are not regarded as soloable by the average player.

"Average" players do not have complete sets of, say, Nirn (a DLC dungeon thing) and Deadly (a PVP outfit) all in correct traits. They might have, say, a base game dungeon outfit or a crafted. "Average" players are the ones still using things like Hundings, Julianos, Briarheart, Mothers Sorrow. If you're lucky. Certainly won't have a DLC monster helm, though they might just have a base-game monster helm and shoulders.

The "average" is not where you think it is.

An "Arc 1" boss, even a final one in a part of the game meant to be soloed, should not be throwing you right in at "Preserver of Galen" level.

Its 1.2 mil hp not 12 mil, just to be clear.

Bashev

No No No. You will nerf the only challenging solo content in the game.

I am not a PvE-er myself but i just went with my PvP build and my game crashed at arc 3. I had no issues with the bosses and I found them too easy and boring in the first 2 arcs. I just waisted some time to reach the fun part and now I have to start over.

If ZoS nerf the EA to arc 5 let say i hope they will give us an option to jump directly on Arc 6 and not wasting time doing trivial fights.

jm42

that was fast

Luke_Flamesword

Just make normal mode and vet with HM on bossess and everyone will be happy.

Lugaldu

OP, I completely agree with you. I was just annoyed last night, instead of having fun with the new content, it was absolute frustration. I also think that the bosses at the end of Arc 1 are too difficult or that there should be at least a choice of different difficulties - and then there's the fact that you can't save progress and a single loss of internet connection ruins everything. If someone has 3600 CP and is a hardcore player, then Arc 1 might be "too easy", but what are new players supposed to do with a character who only has 100 CP? This means that EA is not for ALL players.
And then there are the tons of trash mobs that don't even drop basic resources like leather or alkaset, you only get something in the chests. The EA currently gives the impression that it is just as unrewarding as Bastion Nymic and I feel like I am in the movie Groundhog Day when I cant even reach the final boss of arc 1.

Zodiarkslayer

You should see it this way: Duoing EA is normal mode. SOLOing is Veteran Mode.

ZOS has actually listened to player feedback during PTS and toned down the difficulty and the grind. I think that was in week 3?
However, the ratio of rewards vs time spend to acquire them is still an issue.

I think I'll be doing EA until I have the Nightblade class set complete and then will not bother until there are newer and better class sets available from EA.

Eldartar

WOW, that was fast even for ESO. less than 24 hours infact.

Daoin

EA is great but i am struggling to see any reason to play past arc one also think the difficulty is fine. if someone could tell me any reasons there are to play past arc 1 and the daily i would appreciate it. ty

loosej

While I've now set up a build that gets past arc 1 easy, and past arc 2 if I stay focused during the boss fight, I have to agree that the difficulty of arc 1 can sometimes be way higher than I expected.

One big issue, I think, is that the pool of possible cycle bosses seems to be the same no matter which arc you're on. I've played this game for some time now, but my main focus has been pvp. I've never set foot in a trial, and there are quite a few dlc dungeons I haven't done either. As a result, I've died more to cycle bosses with mechanics I don't know (yet) than I have to arc bosses.

There seem to be some mixed opinions in this thread, some claiming this content was made for the average player, and others claiming it was made for everyone. In its current form, it definitely isn't for everyone, and it feels like you have to meet pretty high standards to be considered an average player.

My suggestion would be to keep the difficulty as it is, but draw only bosses from base game content during the first arc. This would make it a lot more accessible for players who are new, don't have a lot of PvE experience, don't have access to the dlc dungeons, ... The final arc boss is always the same, so those are mechanics you can learn as you go. But at least this would reduce the amount of one-shot mechanics people possibly have to deal with on cycle bosses. If implemented like this, maybe allow people to skip arc 1 and start immediately on arc 2 if they want more of a challenge (this could be the distinction between normal/veteran).

And finally some advice for the people who are struggling on arc 1: you will very likely need a dedicated build for this. Your 19k HP glass cannon damage build just won't cut it, unless you are actually good. If you are going to solo this, you are the tank, dd and healer all in one. Some general advice that works for PvP builds works here as well:

• Armor: use 3 pieces heavy reinforced for the big body pieces (head/chest/legs). Combined with major/minor resolve this will give you a decent amount of resistance.
• Stats: don't put everything in mag or stam. Aim to hit 30k health, more if you feel insecure.
• Weapons: run your offensive weapon of choice on the frontbar, use ice staff or 1h & shield on the backbar. Don't forget to switch to your backbar when needed, and to actually use block.
• Skills: depending on your class you'll need a shield and/or a burst heal.
• Mythics: if you have access to it, Ring of the Pale Order is your best friend for solo content.
• Champion points: Don't use 4 offensive blue CP skills, add in some defense as well. Focused Mending (+10% on single target heals) can be very good to boost your burst heal. Ironclad (-6% damage taken from direct damage attacks) is always strong.

Also keep in mind that a lot of heavy hitting boss mechanics are aoe, designed to take out a group of players. This makes minor/major evasion a very strong defensive buff.

Doing these things will result in less dps, but a dead player does zero dps. I'm definitely not claiming this is the absolute best strategy to tackle Endless Archive, but if you are struggling on arc 1 this should help you get started. As you get more experience you can tone down some of those defensive actions in favor of more damage.

Lugaldu

loosej wrote: »

My suggestion would be to keep the difficulty as it is, but draw only bosses from base game content during the first arc. This would make it a lot more accessible for players who are new, don't have a lot of PvE experience, don't have access to the dlc dungeons, ... The final arc boss is always the same, so those are mechanics you can learn as you go. But at least this would reduce the amount of one-shot mechanics people possibly have to deal with on cycle bosses. If implemented like this, maybe allow people to skip arc 1 and start immediately on arc 2 if they want more of a challenge (this could be the distinction between normal/veteran).

I also think that the progression is completely unbalanced. I may not necessarily do the most damage, but I have 42k life and even with that I can't even get to the end of arc 1 because bosses with one-shot mechanics already appear in 1.3.3 (or in arc 1 at all) and If you only have 3 attempts to learn this mechanic, then that's excessive difficulty.

Smaxx

Difficulty wise it felt somewhat okay to me. It definitely needs a bit more balancing though.

Lugaldu wrote: »

I also think that the progression is completely unbalanced. I may not necessarily do the most damage, but I have 42k life and even with that I can't even get to the end of arc 1 because bosses with one-shot mechanics already appear in 1.3.3 (or in arc 1 at all) and If you only have 3 attempts to learn this mechanic, then that's excessive difficulty.

The first Marauder is a bit of a steep increase, for something you can't skip, but so far for me the worst offender (by a long way) was Ghemvas the Harbinger. I think I even had him in first arc yesterday, first time, and instantly lost two threads since I absolutely didn't expect to getting nailed with a 3500 damage ticking bleed that early. That felt way out of whack.

Any chance it was Ghemvas in your case, too?

Lugaldu

Smaxx wrote: »

Difficulty wise it felt somewhat okay to me. It definitely needs a bit more balancing though.

Lugaldu wrote: »

I also think that the progression is completely unbalanced. I may not necessarily do the most damage, but I have 42k life and even with that I can't even get to the end of arc 1 because bosses with one-shot mechanics already appear in 1.3.3 (or in arc 1 at all) and If you only have 3 attempts to learn this mechanic, then that's excessive difficulty.

The first Marauder is a bit of a steep increase, for something you can't skip, but so far for me the worst offender (by a long way) was Ghemvas the Harbinger. I think I even had him in first arc yesterday, first time, and instantly lost two threads since I absolutely didn't expect to getting nailed with a 3500 damage ticking bleed that early. That felt way out of whack.

Any chance it was Ghemvas in your case, too?

No, it wasn't Ghemvas, but I don't remember the name either, it was a boss I've never encountered in any dungeon before.

Edit: later in another round I encountered Lady Belain and there happened something similar, had her almost down and then got nailed until I was dead... lost all three threads in 1.3.3 and lost my fun to play further as well.

Galeriano

Castagere wrote: »

The replies prove that not everyone can play this thing which they said could be soloed by everyone when they announced it. To the OP I would just forget about it. It wasn't made for you. It clearly is for arena and trials vets.

What do You mean by saying "not everyone can play this thing"? Everyone can enter and play there solo which is what was promised. It was never promised that everyone will be able to venture far into it. Initial stages were designed for players with lesser skill but there is also a limit to how low You can set difficulty without making it so easy it becomes boring even for less experienced people.

Lugaldu

Galeriano wrote: »

What do You mean by saying "not everyone can play this thing"? Everyone can enter and play there solo which is what was promised. It was never promised that everyone will be able to venture far into it. Initial stages were designed for players with lesser skill but there is also a limit to how low You can set difficulty without making it so easy it becomes boring even for less experienced people.

Not offering different difficulty levels is an absolutely ridiculous design decision. This means that players are bound to become frustrated - vet players find it boring because it's too easy, and inexperienced players can't get through any of the gameplay at all.