Please fix Endless Archive difficulty

SilverBride

spartaxoxo wrote: »

They said Endless Archive was for everyone. They have strongly implied that Arc 1 was specifically for casuals when they nerfed it because it was for a different target audience than later levels, which they also made reached more quickly.

But, they also said it was meant to be challenging and that solo players may have to adjust their builds.

Personally, I think that means "Endless Archive is meant everyone" means level of skill, not view of combat and challenge. If someone doesn't like challenge, I don't think they'll enjoy the archive.

But did they say how challenging? Something like Maelstrom Arena difficulty which is solo and has a final boss that isn't nearly as challenging as Arc 1 Tho'at is what I'd expect for the first and easiest Arc.

I am fine with each Arc becoming more challenging and know I will only be able to progress so far, but going immediately from zero to 60 is too much too fast. This could be a lot of fun for a lot of players if the difficulty of Arc 1 Tho'at didn't prevent so many from being able to progress any further. There should be at least a few Arcs that the average player could work through and learn from and hone their skills so they could be prepared to progress even further if they wish.

IZZEFlameLash

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

I have made it past Arc 7-4 and I have zero issue with people asking to nerf Tho’at Arc 1 so they can complete the daily. Doesn’t hurt me or hinder me. Shoot, maybe it will speed up the hours upon hours of grinding through EA. Now an EA hard mode daily Ie ARC 4 completion with extra rewards I think would be cool too!

Not everyone plays the same y’all. And whoever is having a bad day, about to say a snide comment, I hope your day is awesome and you enjoy this weekend. Life is too short. Go out. Ask in zone who is new and go craft them a whole set for free. Spread some joy.

Yeah, in fact, nerfing earlier arcs will make getting to later arcs even faster I'd imagine.

SilverBride

If I'm correct Tho'at is only the final boss for the first 4 Arcs, so decreasing their difficulty will not change anything beyond that, and it would give the average players more of the content to enjoy.

tomofhyrule

SilverBride wrote: »

If I'm correct Tho'at is only the final boss for the first 4 Arcs, so decreasing their difficulty will not change anything beyond that, and it would give the average players more of the content to enjoy.

Tho'at is still the boss of every arc. She just stops adding new mechanics after the fourth and then just goes for more health/damage.

SilverBride

tomofhyrule wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

If I'm correct Tho'at is only the final boss for the first 4 Arcs, so decreasing their difficulty will not change anything beyond that, and it would give the average players more of the content to enjoy.

Tho'at is still the boss of every arc. She just stops adding new mechanics after the fourth and then just goes for more health/damage.

Why do ALL the mechanics have to be introduced early in the EA in what are supposed to be the easiest levels? Why does the difficulty have to ramp up that far that fast?

I'd really like to enjoy this but the frustration with this boss is already turning this from something fun to just a daily task to run Arc 1 up to Tho'at for the currency then leave.

valenwood_vegan

Yeah I mean I think this is the issue that came up on PTS and that all of us are dancing around in one way or another.

There are clearly players who find the difficulty level of certain bosses in the first arc to be off-putting.

Then you have someone like me who is basically already done with EA because the first two arcs are so mind numbingly boring, and I don't have enough time in one sitting to reach the part where I feel challenged and enjoy the content. I can't just take half a day off from real life to try and beat my score.

By trying to design the content for everyone at once, I feel like they actually managed to make it unenjoyable for people at both ends of the spectrum, just in different ways.

Toxic_Hemlock

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

Yeah I mean I think this is the issue that came up on PTS and that all of us are dancing around in one way or another.

There are clearly players who find the difficulty level of certain bosses in the first arc to be off-putting.

Then you have someone like me who is basically already done with EA because the first two arcs are so mind numbingly boring, and I don't have enough time in one sitting to reach the part where I feel challenged and enjoy the content. I can't just take half a day off from real life to try and beat my score.

By trying to design the content for everyone at once, I feel like they actually managed to make it unenjoyable for people at both ends of the spectrum, just in different ways.

I said almost this exact same thing week one of the PTS. Sure they removed one phase of trash, but they did little for the low end player like myself, as 68+ bosses is REALLY hard for me to memory hole and I die constantly. The high end players likewise that have already been there/done that and bought the t-shirt, are stuck with doing all the boring arcs to get to what they find challenging. Kinda a lose/lose IMO with only those in the middle really enjoying it.

I'm just skipping it for now and maybe, just maybe they will see the numbers fall enough that they will add in switch to make the players happy. Not holding my breath though.

Edit: Oh yea I forgot I said I was not going to comment anymore on this thread... Nevermind then.

Jaraal

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

Yeah I mean I think this is the issue that came up on PTS and that all of us are dancing around in one way or another.

There are clearly players who find the difficulty level of certain bosses in the first arc to be off-putting.

Then you have someone like me who is basically already done with EA because the first two arcs are so mind numbingly boring, and I don't have enough time in one sitting to reach the part where I feel challenged and enjoy the content. I can't just take half a day off from real life to try and beat my score.

By trying to design the content for everyone at once, I feel like they actually managed to make it unenjoyable for people at both ends of the spectrum, just in different ways.

Which could be solved by having a normal, non-scoring version with lower rewards, and a veteran version with leaderboards that skips the easier arcs. This is a strategy ZOS has had in place for solo arenas, four person dungeons and arenas, and trials for years.

Why the sudden divergence from a formula that has worked for a decade? Why is ZOS choosing to divide the player base on this? I'm curious to find out the reasoning behind it.

MoonPile

I have no stake in this, reading out of curiosity. There are definitely things I'm frustrated about in the Archive, but combat isn't one of them. And I'm not a "sweaty" player -

Just for context, I mostly do Normal content. I rarely do dungeons or trials. I enjoy being OP. I like being strong enough to solo some dungeons, mostly for efficiency. But I don't play this game for combat for its own sake. I've done some Vet stuff and worked to at least pull my weight. But my only motivation are some cosmetic rewards.

Likewise here with EA: I wanted the dye. I got the dye. I am done with everything past Arc 2-3.

I find Arc 1-2 cycles easy. Tho'at v1 was a little bit challenging for me solo, now it's easy too. I never thought I'd beat Tho'at v2 by myself, but I did! By changing my build a little bit. That's it though. I struggle with Tho'at 3 even in duos with a tank. Then the mob cycles in 4 were insane, even spawning garbage from the boss fights. I don't enjoy it, it's exhausting to me and not something I get a sense of accomplishment from.

I see EA as made specifically for people who do enjoy combat for combat's sake. Not for me, and I'm ok with that.

The fact that the rewards mainly drop furnishings (which I love) is bewildering, but maybe just a carrot on a stick for those of us who wouldn't have touched it otherwise (it worked). I'm glad those rewards are mostly attainable at levels I can do.

So, I wanted to add this because I'm not someone who'd say everything is "faceroll easy", I don't like that, it doesn't help anyone. I remember what it's like to even be scared of some overland areas, years ago. I wasn't able to solo WBs, now I stomp them. Mostly it's just getting higher CP and improving build. That or reading online what I'm missing about some mechanic and correcting it.

EA is also way WAY easier with a human duo. I'd recommend partnering if it's too hard alone and you just want to clear the daily.

But Tho'at v2 and onward are way harder than v1. If Tho'at v1 is torturous, the rest isn't going to be fun. Making it easier would mostly mean more mob-monotony. In earnest, if you don't like what this is at its core (a grind-fest for grind-lovers) why would you want to do more?

MidniteOwl1913

MoonPile wrote: »

I

But Tho'at v2 and onward are way harder than v1. If Tho'at v1 is torturous, the rest isn't going to be fun. Making it easier would mostly mean more mob-monotony. In earnest, if you don't like what this is at its core (a grind-fest for grind-lovers) why would you want to do more?

You are right and I probably won't. If they add save points I would give it another go.

SilverBride

MoonPile wrote: »

In earnest, if you don't like what this is at its core (a grind-fest for grind-lovers) why would you want to do more?

Because I do like what this is.

I like that this is not just another arena where we stand there and wait for waves of mobs.
I like that there are side mini games that are a lot of fun.
I like that there are side quests as well as the daily that give me some objectives besides just killing stuff.
I like that there are achievements with rewards. I got a memento tonight that I acutally used and I don't normally care about mementos. (Summoned Booknado)
I like that every stage we complete we get to choose a verse that helps us as we move through the Archive.
I like that this is not just another arena or another dungeon because of its unique features and it's own currencies and rewards that can be earned or purchased.

This is why i want to experience more than just Arc 1.

Necrotech_Master

caperon wrote: »

How in the world you need 30-45 min for arc 1. Do you use any skills or only light atack? Is your character using any clothing? I really don't understand. It took me 24 min in my naked sorcerer (video in this same post). Granted, i had good verses, but stil is a naked character.

If you need help finding a build that does more than 0 damage i can provide guidance because really, every time i read the forums I feel I play a different game.

if you do side activities, or running a tankier character to you know, actually make it to further arcs, arc 1 can take extra time due to the lower dps, and if your RNG doesnt give you offense verses it can take longer

the theater of war bonus event is usually a minimum of like 7-10 minutes if you get that one if your not high dmg because the boss is constantly shielding

if im running raw dps, and skip all the side activities just to clear arc 1, yeah i can be done in like 25ish min pretty easy

MoonPile

SilverBride wrote: »

I like that this is not just another arena where we stand there and wait for waves of mobs.
I like that there are side mini games that are a lot of fun.
I like that there are side quests as well as the daily that give me some objectives besides just killing stuff.
I like that there are achievements with rewards. I got a memento tonight that I acutally used and I don't normally care about mementos. (Summoned Booknado)
I like that every stage we complete we get to choose a verse that helps us as we move through the Archive.
I like that this is not just another arena or another dungeon because of its unique features and it's own currencies and rewards that can be earned or purchased.
...

I liked many of those things too. Past tense because I learned that this fun expires once you're locked into higher difficulties on the portals, account-wide. Meaning more frustration, higher rate of failure, overall fewer rewards. That's the thing I'm most salty about personally.

But re: experiencing more, that's kind of the thing. There isn't more. All of that stuff listed stays exactly the same. Repeat runs in Arc 1 give you everything there is (minus the dye and some titles, if you care about those).

In later arcs it's just interspersed with increasingly tiring combat - AKA the main draw, most enjoyable bit for others. Mostly it really is just waves of mobs, which nobody at either end of the spectrum seems to like, and from what I gather, people on PTS spoke up about to little avail.

Edit: Actually... this made me realize something. I don't have to care about Filer's Wing anymore, that I cannot pass at 4/5. Having seen what else is in EA, I'm good. I don't need that Visions upgrade. So yeah, I'm gonna be walking straight back out the portal next time I see that Watcher boss, who's infinitely disappointed in me. Only sucks that it spawns way more often than the doable ones, replacing chances for rewards.

darvaria

You should be able to save and go back to a boss more than 3 times. Some of those bosses, I haven't seen before and don't know the mechanics. Like in Malestrom, you could save your spot. And go back figuring out what you did wrong. I remember in the old days, you had to start over in Malestrom. Until they add a save feature, I won't bother going back.

MidniteOwl1913

There is no way The Serpent and Rakkhat should be in aArc 1. Even with a lower HP they are not something the average player can deal with. They are way harder than Tho 'at V1 and even the marauders who only show up at Arc 2.

old_scopie1945

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

.

SilverBride wrote: »

I haven't seen anything written anywhere that indicates what the initial EA difficulty was meant to be or who the target audience is.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin Are you able to share some light on these?

I'd like to see this information, as well.

I would be very surprised if they comment, because really there is no right answer here.

From the looks of it though I think it's more aimed at the 10% than the 90% and it isn't just the difficulty. It's the lack of save points. The contiguous time commitment. (The need for a huge hunk of time makes it hard to use the group finder so it means solo or no go.) It's the level of RNG. It's the obsession with the leaderboards.

You hit the nail on the head IMO. Well said.

Aurielle

Braffin wrote: »

Sirona_Starr wrote: »

mercer_cap wrote: »

Sirona_Starr wrote: »

mercer_cap wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

mercer_cap wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

ajkb78 wrote: »

I think the ideal solution would be to have the difficulty ramp up more slowly, so new players or players who want to solo or play with companions without feeling like the companion is a complete joke, or players with dexterity issues can play through multiple arcs. At present they pretty much get arc 1 and that's it.

This is exactly what the problem is and what should happen. Thank you.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin Please take this into consideration. I would love to be able to enjoy more of this new feature.

ironically that is kindof how it was on the PTS before all of the changes and complaints that it was "too easy" and "boring" by the upper echelons of the PVE community.

I am perfectly fine if the content scales as time goes on, just that it scales within reason.

Endless Archive was sold to us as a progressive endurance test, not an opportunity for all of the ESO bosses to take revenge for all of the times they died to players.

But it's still like that isn't it?

For the first two arcs you have to do absolutely nothing except burn the adds and bosses, get out of bad AoE and enter good AoE. In arc 3 you need to be a bit more tanky and conscious of your environment and only when in arc 4 you start to rely on your offensive vision gathered, of which you should have had 9 choices already. (EDIT: for example the 37% offensive penetration one + ferocious strikes (15% bleed), ferocious support (50k+ bleed), focused efforts (200% status effect damage), attuned enchantments (60% stronger glyphs) on a heavy attack build. You will bleed everything into oblivion by just even looking at it, and this example might not even be the strongest).

Only at that point you really need to start thinking. Be aware of everything around you, kite, kite, kite, get out of bad AoE, get in good AoE, heal yourself, interrupt. But before you reach that point, it costs you two hours of cheesing through the archive already..

My point is: playing two hours before anything challenging starts is perfectly withing reason in terms of difficulty scaling.

Depends on the player. Some of us struggle to get past arc 1.

If the scaling isn't changed then I suggest the threads change. 3 lives and your done.... is excessive with the current scale imo.

At least give us a verse that grants an additional life.

Well to be honest, arc 1 is as hard as normal Fungal Grotto 1. That is really the beginning of the game in terms of instanced content. Heck, the gathering of all the adds at the first boss inf nFG1 does more damage on you than anything in arc 1 in EA.

Of course, it is not fun to be stuck somewhere with the feeling you did everything what was in your power to complete it. Fortunately usually experience comes with time and some time later content considered to be to hard might be suddenly possible because the player has grown.

Maybe a solution for this would be that you cannot be wiped in arc 1? Sure, lose your threads, but even with 0 threads you get the possibility to finish arc 1 and the daily quest?

Edit: there is vision that gives you an additional thread, though you can only use it once in a run! Also you can buy an upgrade for an extra thread once you've completed one of the sidequest achievements. But the best of all (this one saved my life more than once): there is a verse that won't make you lose a thread once you die. Especially in later arcs when you only have 1 thread left it is available quite often.

There are no trial bosses in FG I, there is no Tho'at in FG I there are no DLC bosses in FG I. This is a false compariosn. In no way is Arc I as easy as FG I.

It is not a false comparison. The damage you get in FG1 is at least as high if not bigger. And also in FG1 you need to get out of stupid, or you die xD

You realise that the trial bosses in arc 1 absolutely do not resemble the full trial boss? Damage has been toned down, mechanics have been changed or removed etc. For example with the serpent: you only have to get into the green AoE when is is about to explode and you will complete it. It's not a DPS race whatsoever

How many players actually do trials? I do trials on normal, and yes, I know they have been tuned down. So what?
Again, I can easily solo FG I normal on all my toons. It remains a false comparison. I cannot easily solo Arc I on all my toons. In fact, I cannot solo it on any of my toons.

Did you try to adjust your builds, how zos is expecting you to for EA?
Did you pay attention to mechanics?

Yeah, I really don’t get the claims that it’s too hard. For some context, I recently returned to the game after a four year break, on a low CP account (~CP 500) with absolutely no gear. All my good farmed gear is on my PS4 account.

I easily solo’ed arc 1 of EA for the first time the other day on a magicka khajiit Templar equipped only with purple crafted gear (Seducer and Order’s Wrath) and a sustain monster set (Grundwulf). Six light pieces, one heavy. Didn’t even have all Undaunted passives on the character. In other words, a very non-optimized class/race and gear combo, especially for EA. I died once to Tho’at as I didn’t look up any mechanics beforehand. It was easy to figure out why I died, and didn’t have any issues whatsoever with the next attempt.

I wouldn’t necessarily say EA is as easy as solo FG1 on normal, but it’s definitely as easy as normal Maelstrom Arena (easier, actually — fewer mechanics).

I personally found EA utterly boring and don’t see myself doing it much outside of endeavours.

Aurielle

SilverBride wrote: »

Examples of players that do not find Tho'at too challenging for the first Arcs does not mean that she isn't for a large part of the player base. Of course a player needs to be geared and have a decent build, and yes mechanics have to be learned as with any new boss encounter. But this is the first Arc.

I would argue that you don’t really need a “decent build” to solo arc 1 with ease, though. As stated above, I’m a returning console player starting over effectively from scratch on PC after a very long break. I solo’ed arc 1 the other day on my first attempt. Went in completely blind on a CP 500 magicka Khajiit Templar wearing 5L, 1H purple Order’s Wrath/Seducer/Grundwulf. This character isn’t even Undaunted 9 yet (so doesn’t have all passives). Nothing about my build is optimized whatsoever for EA, and I only died once to Tho’at because I was still learning the mechanics.

Anyone who can complete normal Maelstrom Arena just needs to slap on some cheap, tankier crafted gear, learn the Tho’at mechanics, and it’s really no more difficult than nMA. No need for mythic gear or anything like that. I personally died WAY more the first time I tried nMA.

Lexalious

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

There is no way The Serpent and Rakkhat should be in aArc 1. Even with a lower HP they are not something the average player can deal with. They are way harder than Tho 'at V1 and even the marauders who only show up at Arc 2.

what is difficult about serpent or rakkhat? serpent you just kill the totems that pop up and heal through the bursts she does every once a while. rakkhat when its doing the machine gun attack you go to the golden circles which gives you resistance to again just heal through it without even blocking. then you move out of the circle cuz its gonna jump there and turn it blue which you should avoid.
well i realize since they are trial bosses most players might not know the mechanics but really there isn't much else to them.

Aurielle

Lexalious wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

There is no way The Serpent and Rakkhat should be in aArc 1. Even with a lower HP they are not something the average player can deal with. They are way harder than Tho 'at V1 and even the marauders who only show up at Arc 2.

what is difficult about serpent or rakkhat? serpent you just kill the totems that pop up and heal through the bursts she does every once a while. rakkhat when its doing the machine gun attack you go to the golden circles which gives you resistance to again just heal through it without even blocking. then you move out of the circle cuz its gonna jump there and turn it blue which you should avoid.
well i realize since they are trial bosses most players might not know the mechanics but really there isn't much else to them.

I think part of the problem here is that people expect EA to be some kind of endless dungeon or delve where they can effectively face tank everything without paying attention to (or learning) any mechanics. EA is just a further evolution of ESO’s arenas, and should be treated as such. Expecting to face tank every boss on arc 1 just because “it’s supposed to be the easiest” is like expecting to not die to certain mechanics in nMA.

nMA was difficult the first time I did it years and years ago. I didn’t think I’d ever complete it. I persisted, and eventually it became so easy that I use it occasionally to level up alts.

People clamouring for nerfs to arc 1 just need to spend a little more time with it, and possibly need to build a little tankier. You can use crafted gear. Don’t need to spend lots of time or gold gearing up for arc 1.

Lexalious

Aurielle wrote: »

nMA was difficult the first time I did it years and years ago. I didn’t think I’d ever complete it. I persisted, and eventually it became so easy that I use it occasionally to level up alts.

People clamouring for nerfs to arc 1 just need to spend a little more time with it, and possibly need to build a little tankier. You can use crafted gear. Don’t need to spend lots of time or gold gearing up for arc 1.

i can add to that, i thoroughly remember the times when you couldn't get weapons from nMA, you had to complete it on vet to get anything. back when 30k dps was considered to be really good. i remember having to literally practice on normal for maybe weeks before i can even do anything on vet. content was difficult yet doable.

not to be that guy but if you just put in the effort everything is doable

alcoraptor

Given the boss variety (which I really like, personally), I definitely support either a training area or the ability to continue after your threads are gone so that you have a chance to learn the mechanics rather than having to start again and probably not get the same boss.

I don't support nerfing the difficulty of the final boss in arc 1 though.
It's a bit of a step up from the rest of the arc, for sure, but it's definitely no more difficult than normal maelstrom arena.
The only annoying part that needs a change is the 3 threads limit - if you struggle with the mechs on it, it would be nice to be able to practice more than 3 times rather than having to slog through the entire arc again to try again.

If the boss was nerfed, it would also increase the gap between arc 1 and arc 2 - which is already quite large.
There would then be calls to nerf the second boss - and so on - where do you draw the line?
Most vet players I've spoken to have already said that it's not all that challenging until about arc 4 - and it takes a significant time commitment to get there already.
Nerfing the boss(es) of previous arcs will increase the time required even further (because they'll now have to burn through even more "easy" arcs) , and end up putting more people off the content.

I don't intend this as a "git gud" post - I agree the the current state of EA is frustrating, and they have ended up creating content that doesn't really cater to either audience - but I don't think that the nerf hammer is the right approach here.
Maelstrom, Vateshran, DSA and BRP all work well because they allow as many practice attempts as you want - that would be far better here I think, and would encourage people to learn mechanics and improve their builds.

As an aside, I tried EA a sorc in blue 5x seducer, 5x new moon acolyte, 1x slimecraw and the pale order ring last night, with ~ 500cp (because I forgot to assign the rest).
It took around 20 mins to clear the first arc, and you can pretty much ignore the mechanics and just burn the boss.

Four_Fingers

My problem in learning the mechs after getting beat by a boss I don't know is the next time I go back it is a different boss.

LouisaB75

For boss mechanics I find it helpful to check the video already referred to in the thread. It has most of the bosses there and you can easily scroll along the play bar, reading the markers, until you see the name of what you are facing.

If I see a boss I don't recognise I go take a quick look at that part of the video.

Plenty of time to watch the boss you need before going back to carry on.

Only once has the video not had the mechanics I needed. One boss I got in arc 2 was burned by the guy so quickly the mechanic that killed me didn't have chance to kick in.

Four_Fingers

But when I go back it is a different boss if I was on my last thread and have to reset.
I guess I will have to not try to defeat the boss and look it up before fighting and that spoils the challenge.
I like to try to figure a boss out before looking it up.
And scrolling through a video is a pain I prefer to google a boss.
Oh well, it is what it is.
PvP player, btw.

Galeriano

SilverBride wrote: »

MoonPile wrote: »

In earnest, if you don't like what this is at its core (a grind-fest for grind-lovers) why would you want to do more?

Because I do like what this is.

I like that this is not just another arena where we stand there and wait for waves of mobs.
I like that there are side mini games that are a lot of fun.
I like that there are side quests as well as the daily that give me some objectives besides just killing stuff.
I like that there are achievements with rewards. I got a memento tonight that I acutally used and I don't normally care about mementos. (Summoned Booknado)
I like that every stage we complete we get to choose a verse that helps us as we move through the Archive.
I like that this is not just another arena or another dungeon because of its unique features and it's own currencies and rewards that can be earned or purchased.

This is why i want to experience more than just Arc 1.

Well than get better in terms of setup and Your skill and continue Your journey.

LouisaB75

Nothing to stop you googling the boss before you fight him either. I usually try once before looking up, but if it is my last thread I look up first unless I forget.

Joy_Division

MoonPile wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I like that this is not just another arena where we stand there and wait for waves of mobs.
I like that there are side mini games that are a lot of fun.
I like that there are side quests as well as the daily that give me some objectives besides just killing stuff.
I like that there are achievements with rewards. I got a memento tonight that I acutally used and I don't normally care about mementos. (Summoned Booknado)
I like that every stage we complete we get to choose a verse that helps us as we move through the Archive.
I like that this is not just another arena or another dungeon because of its unique features and it's own currencies and rewards that can be earned or purchased.
...

I liked many of those things too. Past tense because I learned that this fun expires once you're locked into higher difficulties on the portals, account-wide. Meaning more frustration, higher rate of failure, overall fewer rewards. That's the thing I'm most salty about personally.

But re: experiencing more, that's kind of the thing. There isn't more. All of that stuff listed stays exactly the same. Repeat runs in Arc 1 give you everything there is (minus the dye and some titles, if you care about those).

In later arcs it's just interspersed with increasingly tiring combat - AKA the main draw, most enjoyable bit for others. Mostly it really is just waves of mobs, which nobody at either end of the spectrum seems to like, and from what I gather, people on PTS spoke up about to little avail.

Edit: Actually... this made me realize something. I don't have to care about Filer's Wing anymore, that I cannot pass at 4/5. Having seen what else is in EA, I'm good. I don't need that Visions upgrade. So yeah, I'm gonna be walking straight back out the portal next time I see that Watcher boss, who's infinitely disappointed in me. Only sucks that it spawns way more often than the doable ones, replacing chances for rewards.

I do agree this is can be done better. I usually skip them now too. If I had the option, I would like my account to reset the side portals every week.

For Filer's wing: Do it as a duo. I was stuck where you were 4/5. Your group will always get Filer's wing (provided the other person has already done the easy side arcs). You'll get the achievement and then will get different side arcs thereafter.

SilverBride

Galeriano wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

MoonPile wrote: »

In earnest, if you don't like what this is at its core (a grind-fest for grind-lovers) why would you want to do more?

Because I do like what this is.

I like that this is not just another arena where we stand there and wait for waves of mobs.
I like that there are side mini games that are a lot of fun.
I like that there are side quests as well as the daily that give me some objectives besides just killing stuff.
I like that there are achievements with rewards. I got a memento tonight that I acutally used and I don't normally care about mementos. (Summoned Booknado)
I like that every stage we complete we get to choose a verse that helps us as we move through the Archive.
I like that this is not just another arena or another dungeon because of its unique features and it's own currencies and rewards that can be earned or purchased.

This is why i want to experience more than just Arc 1.

Well than get better in terms of setup and Your skill and continue Your journey.

I am "better". I've put a lot of time and effort this year into farming gear sets and monster sets and mythic gear (and I hate farming) and looking up and trying different builds for every one of my characters. And I went from not doing any end game content to completing every base game and DLC dungeon on normal, and every base game dungeon on veteran, and am working on getting all the DLC dungeons on veteran now.

This isn't a matter of needing to get "better". It's about Tho'at being disproportionately more difficult than the rest of the Arc. And it's about Tho'at getting all of their mechanics in the first 4 Arcs which are supposed to be the easiest ones.

This is what needs to be adjusted.

Ph1p

SilverBride wrote: »

... And it's about Tho'at getting all of their mechanics in the first 4 Arcs which are supposed to be the easiest ones.

This is what needs to be adjusted.

Arcs 1-4 are by definition the easiest ones, but I don't see why Arcs 3 or 4 have to be easy.

As you and others have suggested, if the data shows that Arc 1 Tho'at is indeed a showstopper for many people even after multiple tries, by all means tune it down. It allows more people to finish a daily and might motivate them to continue further. It also allows more experienced players to progress to later Arcs faster. Everyone wins here.

But adjusting Arcs beyond this only makes EA more boring for everybody who can progress beyond Arc 1. The whole point of EA is to find your personal limit and push yourself beyond it. If it takes 30-60 min longer to even get there, then EA isn't a challenge any more, but a chore.