It's time to uphold NB Cloak to the same standards!

AndreNoir · July 2023

DrNukenstein wrote: »

-Mage light, and hunter should give the user (only the user) the same detection that detect pots give while active and the reveal radius should be increased to 12m.

It's already 12m

Weckless · July 2023

AndreNoir wrote: »

DrNukenstein wrote: »

-Mage light, and hunter should give the user (only the user) the same detection that detect pots give while active and the reveal radius should be increased to 12m.

It's already 12m

Its 8m on camo hunter and inner light and 12m on radiating magelight and evil hunter

Weckless · July 2023

ProudMary wrote: »

SandandStars wrote: »

For what it’s worth, when I use Blinding Flare or Inner Light to pull an NB out of cloak, they immediately recloak at least 80% of the time.

I’m a PvPer for about 2.5 years, and I tend to do quite well. Often win 1st place on winning team in high mmr bgs, etc. (Xbox NA)

I really am confused by the sharp contrast between ppl who say the counters to cloak consistently work well for them and those who say they don’t prevent NBs from immediately recloaking.

I honestly don’t believe it’s a “Learn to Play” issue.

I’m trying to think of other factors that could account for such markedly different experiences using Blinding Flare or Inner Light…

Maybe there are tricks/exploits that are more widely known on different platforms?

It's only NB main's that claim Cloak isn't dependable and everything pulls them out of cloak, when in reality very few things short of a detect pot pulls them out of cloak reliably.

Turning invisible during combat is simply a mechanic that never should be introduced into a PvP environment. That was the mistake; letting people think it was normal and learning to crutch on invisibility as a skill. Maybe it would be ok as a potion with a 45 second cool down, but not as a skill.

I posted a video that proves everything pulls us out of cloak so no we arent making it up

Weckless · July 2023

Redguards_Revenge wrote: »

No questions.

Cloak should ramp up in cost after being spammed within x seconds.(5 seconds)

Cloak is similar to roll dodge, block and streak! If not better!

Roll dodge removes direct damage for the duration of the roll AoE, DoT still affect them and they are visible.

Block lowers direct damage, AoE, DoT still affect them, and they are visible. (I finally see why DoT builds are powerful, block doesn't block DoT lol)

Cloak removes direct damage AND Suppresses DoT? (I am not sure about AoE, does it matter? most AoEs are small. Not only that 2 seconds per tick for the larger ones give ample time to walk out of them with the weak damage.) Then they have a guaranteed critical strike or critical heal?

EDIT:
Cloak removes channels like Templar Beam and suppresses Templar Light. roll dodge, block, streak etc. doesn't. That's a partial purge. RAMP UP THE COST!
Stack that with Vampire and there is no other class quite like NB...NB has the highest crit in the game...probably crit damage...and a guaranteed crit...and then vampire gives it even more weapon damage? Come on.

Tell me how does one hide in light?

You know what I hate the most? When one is crouching, and the NB can see you while stealthed but you can't see them. Just to use a detect skill and see nothing still. Then they attack like it was such a surprise. No, I knew you were there for a while. Detection mechanics in the game let's you really get close in for a whiff, but I can't see you. I know you're there but I don't know where. It's like I am an Oblivion NPC.
:ENDEDIT

I find it strange and disconnected.

Just like when I jumped off the ledge in BGs and an arcanist charmed me and instead of hitting the ground it made me walk back up on the ledge 2 stories high. But That's a different post.

NBs aren't squishy. They choose to be squishy. Sorcs do as well, and they have to streak with a ramping cost while being seen.

NB's aren't glass because they are NBs...They are glass because of cloak.

Identity? Ask a templar what that means and see their identity ripped through 3 classes.

I have a song and it goes like this.

When I go in bgs all I see is, NB, DK , NB,DK,
When I go into cyrodil, I swallow the red pill because everyone is still, NB, DK, NB, DK,
Arcanist might be here and there, but then they'll still die everywhere there is NB, DK , NB, DK

Chorus
NB, DK, NB, DK
NB, DK ,NB, DK
Is this really OK?
NB, DK, NB, DK
NB, DK ,NB, DK
Do I really want to fight? (I didn't know if you guys were going to pronounce Dee-Kay... or say it DragonKnight so I tossed in both)

By the way cloak doesn't supress dots or stop aoe damage so no its nothing like a purge. And most channels prevent you from cloaking. People really need to clip situations when they make claims about things happening that shouldnt because without evidence you just look like your making stuff up.

AndreNoir · July 2023

Weckless wrote: »

AndreNoir wrote: »

DrNukenstein wrote: »

-Mage light, and hunter should give the user (only the user) the same detection that detect pots give while active and the reveal radius should be increased to 12m.

It's already 12m

Its 8m on camo hunter and inner light and 12m on radiating magelight and evil hunter

Yes, and it's 12. And YES it's pvp morphs

Weckless · July 2023

AndreNoir wrote: »

Weckless wrote: »

AndreNoir wrote: »

DrNukenstein wrote: »

-Mage light, and hunter should give the user (only the user) the same detection that detect pots give while active and the reveal radius should be increased to 12m.

It's already 12m

Its 8m on camo hunter and inner light and 12m on radiating magelight and evil hunter

Yes, and it's 12. And YES it's pvp morphs

What? Nobody uses evil hunter or radiating magelight so no they arent the pvp morphs. People use camo hunter almost universally except you might catch a magsorc but even they use inner light. So uhh.. what are you talking about?

Tommy_The_Gun · July 2023

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/638012/pts-patch-notes-v9-1-0#latest
It seems like ZOS disagrees with the OP:

- Shadow Cloak: This ability and the Shadowy Disguise morph now also grant Major Savagery and Prophecy for slotting on either bar, to help them offer more functionality outside of PvP and to ensure the abilities still offer something when they are being countered.

- Dark Cloak (morph): This morph now swaps the Major Savagery and Prophecy to Minor Protection for slotting on either bar, rather than granting it for 10 seconds after casting the ability.

LOL

Edit: I mean those buffs... it is kinda hilarious

Sikon · July 2023

Totally agree, what you wanna say now OP?- close this thread please. That's a clear statement by ZOS. Byebye

AndreNoir · July 2023

Weckless wrote: »

AndreNoir wrote: »

Weckless wrote: »

AndreNoir wrote: »

DrNukenstein wrote: »

-Mage light, and hunter should give the user (only the user) the same detection that detect pots give while active and the reveal radius should be increased to 12m.

It's already 12m

Its 8m on camo hunter and inner light and 12m on radiating magelight and evil hunter

Yes, and it's 12. And YES it's pvp morphs

What? Nobody uses evil hunter or radiating magelight so no they arent the pvp morphs. People use camo hunter almost universally except you might catch a magsorc but even they use inner light. So uhh.. what are you talking about?

Yeah nobody uses evil hunter for 25% buff for shards ofc...
And anyways if u prefer pve/damage morf in pve it's your own fault

Weckless · July 2023

AndreNoir wrote: »

Weckless wrote: »

AndreNoir wrote: »

Weckless wrote: »

AndreNoir wrote: »

DrNukenstein wrote: »

-Mage light, and hunter should give the user (only the user) the same detection that detect pots give while active and the reveal radius should be increased to 12m.

It's already 12m

Its 8m on camo hunter and inner light and 12m on radiating magelight and evil hunter

Yes, and it's 12. And YES it's pvp morphs

What? Nobody uses evil hunter or radiating magelight so no they arent the pvp morphs. People use camo hunter almost universally except you might catch a magsorc but even they use inner light. So uhh.. what are you talking about?

Yeah nobody uses evil hunter for 25% buff for shards ofc...
And anyways if u prefer pve/damage morf in pve it's your own fault

Bro are you serious lol. If you wanna use it to buff a sub par spammable thats your choice but just know that you're in the minority not me lol. I assure you camo hunter is definitely the most widely used morph

Weckless · July 2023

Looks like camo hunter us coming off of nbs bar now though 🤣🤣

Amottica · July 2023

GooGa592 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

GooGa592 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

GooGa592 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Dekrypted wrote: »

The forums is known for people willing to say anything to defend their class from getting nerfed, .

And the forum is known for people willing to say anything to defend a nerf because they do not want to figure out how to deal with something that many other players handle every day.

Seems more like NB's coming out of the woodwork to defend an over performing "skill" to me.

Or that have taken the time to learn to use the counters effectively merely pointing out the facts of the matter.

The only thing that works reliably is a detect pot, and thats only been for the last couple weeks since they increased the range for them.

More than that works reliably. However, you bring up a good point as what one may consider working reliably is that it is easy for them to use.

I have stated that the use of the counters to cloak took me time to figure out how to use them effectively and which ones I liked the most. So yes, with the detect pot being made easier to use will help those who have not taken the time as I have.

It's simply not true that most of the skills and other methods of revealing NB's work reliably. The only thing that works reliably are detect pots, and that's only just recently.

It's not a learn to play issue. It's an NB's crutching on a broken, OP skill issue.

Interesting since I happen to use a few, only one at a time depending on what I am doing, and do not have a problem outside of when I am outplayed.

The reality is we can say all we want but Zenimax can see the truth of how well they work. They can also make tweaks to how some work to make it easier for players to use them effectively if they see fit.

Redguards_Revenge · July 2023

ADarklore wrote: »

Just NO! The ONLY reason I ever played a NB in ESO was because I could continuously cloak past enemies so I wouldn't be forced into combat when I just had to pick up quest items. Adding a ramping cost would all but gut the NB in PVE for those who use it mostly for making questing easier.

I know if this were to ever change, I would just delete my NB and never, ever create another one. Sorry, but NB has had this ability since the very beginning, if you as a player cannot figure out, like others have, how to counter it, then that's on you and not the game.

Tell me in detail what these counters are. I just want to know if what you are saying isn't just a blanket statement that ignores the problem.

I mean, I wish I could continuously

mb10 wrote: »

You've got people who main classes that have HoTs, cleanse, AoE burst damage etc moaning about cloak.

The pretty much whole NB kit is single target. I'd argue its the most outdated class of them all. The comparison between NB and Arcanist is actually hiliarious.

The ONLY unique thing NBs have going for them is cloak and even that has been butchered because you can take DoT damage in it now and even die to that. If you try to heal through it, it takes you out of cloak.
The other morph? You have to stand STILL to get a below average HoT.

I dont mind a ramping cost but the no DoT damage in it has to return or what on Earth is the point of a ramping cost, taking damage within it AND not being able to heal or it will break the cloak?

Can a cloak protect harry potter? Once you destroy the cloak can he place it back on him instantaneously?

Ramp up cost, cooldown or cast time. Which one?

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/638012/pts-patch-notes-v9-1-0#latest
It seems like ZOS disagrees with the OP:

- Shadow Cloak: This ability and the Shadowy Disguise morph now also grant Major Savagery and Prophecy for slotting on either bar, to help them offer more functionality outside of PvP and to ensure the abilities still offer something when they are being countered.

- Dark Cloak (morph): This morph now swaps the Major Savagery and Prophecy to Minor Protection for slotting on either bar, rather than granting it for 10 seconds after casting the ability.

LOL
Edit: I mean those buffs... it is kinda hilarious

Rofl, you right, now I am lvling up vampire NB. I quit my other class. If ZoS wants to make NB god, well I want to be god too!

I can't wait to be in BGs and then we are like "where the hell is everybody" as everyone is cloaked waiting for someone to uncloak lol.

Iriidius · July 2023

When a nightblade is spamming cloak 10 times in a row than they usually do it to disengage. Why is it a problem if a nightblade is using cloak 10 times in a row? I think the problem is not the time you can stay cloaked uninterrupted but the number of times you can attack from cloak using the guarantied crit from cloak and the number of times you can break enemy line of sight. Using cloak multiple times to disengage is fine, beeing all the time cloaked while attacking is not.
You could attack from cloak using guaranteed crit surprise attack or incap stunning enemy, follow up with another attack while the target is breaking free to get him low so he has to heal up before he can go offensive than use cloak before he can target you and stay invisible until you can repeat the combo. Some nightblades would repeat this attack cloak attack cloak strategy until the victim runs out of stamina. However with surprise attack loosing stun when attacking from flank this combo is already much less effective. When the cost increased cloak cost would last 4 seconds like with streak/mistform and dodge roll or 5 seconds like someone here suggested and you use attack your target out of cloak with a stun, the cost increase would be over before target can go
offensive.
Rather than ramping cloak cost there should be ramping cost for attacking from cloak and using guaranteed crit or inability to cloak again for 2-4 seconds.
There definitely shouldnt be a cost increase for using cloak while you are already in
cloak to prolong it. Staying in cloak for long time should be possible.
Increased cost is not a big problem for Zerglings anyway, when Xv1ing they dont have to use skills as often as the 1 to survive and need less sustain while they get more sustain by group buffs and can invest more because they do t need as high dmg and tankiness as a solo player.

Often the „defenses against cloak“ are rather used as offenses against cloak

A few days ago while i was cloaked I was first sniped by a bow nb cloaked itself that probably used detect pots then when i tried to kill the nb the rest of the zerg appeared and chased me for over a minute decloaking me using daedric curse and Purifying light/POTL and after a while because I didnt have magicka to cloak again.
Very often players use detect pots and skills and probably even sentinal set to decloak and chase me when I didnt even attacked them.
When trying to bomb a zerg I often get detected before I even use my combo by Zerglings using detect pots or skills or flare/fear traps on the ground. One Zergling using detect skills is often enaugh to protect the whole Zerg from getting bombed and the bigger the Zerg is the more Zergling there are the higher the chance one of them detects you.
But i think a powerful highly controversial skill like cloak shouldnt get major savagery when players already say it is OP.

ProudMary wrote: »

Wecklessf wrote: »

GooGa592 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

GooGa592 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

GooGa592 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Dekrypted wrote: »

The forums is known for people willing to say anything to defend their class from getting nerfed, .

And the forum is known for people willing to say anything to defend a nerf because they do not want to figure out how to deal with something that many other players handle every day. Tooltip also looks cleaner without major savagery. A skill like cloak or dark deal should be used for its main effekt and not for additional buffs.

Seems more like NB's coming out of the woodwork to defend an over performing "skill" to me.

Or that have taken the time to learn to use the counters effectively merely pointing out the facts of the matter.

The only thing that works reliably is a detect pot, and thats only been for the last couple weeks since they increased the range for them.

More than that works reliably. However, you bring up a good point as what one may consider working reliably is that it is easy for them to use.

I have stated that the use of the counters to cloak took me time to figure out how to use them effectively and which ones I liked the most. So yes, with the detect pot being made easier to use will help those who have not taken the time as I have.

It's simply not true that most of the skills and other methods of revealing NB's work reliably. The only thing that works reliably are detect pots, and that's only just recently.

It's not a learn to play issue. It's an NB's crutching on a broken, OP skill issue.

Then you arent using the skills correctly or while in range. And youre right it is broken. The video i posted prove how broken it was. If you crutch on cloak for defense you will die because it is not a reliable skill. Theres a reason most NBs dont even slot it anymore.

Every NB in cyrodiil spams cloak. That's just a fact.

Ballgroup nbs almost never use cloak and smallscale nbs also often dont use cloak.
Most magblades also dont use cloak(shadowy disguise). They used the healing morph dark cloak, but since dark cloak got changed(40% lower base dmg which increases by 150% when standing still but you dont want to stand still in PvP) most slot non of the morphes. Deltias gaming and malcolm eso-pvp-builds both use cloakless magblade

https://deltiasgaming.com/builds/eso-magicka-nightblade-pvp-build/

https://eso-pvp-builds.com/nightblade/

Most nbs in zerg however slot cloak and use it whenever you look at them even 1(you)vX(the nb), usually on a sniper with dot procsets.

Weckless wrote: »

Heres a teaser video finally showcasing why NBs need nerfing. Send me clips of you asserting your dominance if you have any to add to the finished version
https://youtu.be/rTGlpUvj3Uc

Congratulation for escaping these tryhards despite all their effort!