It's time to uphold NB Cloak to the same standards!

Dark_Lord_Kuro

Doenst a simple detect potion stop them from being invisible tough? If so, its a pretty big weakness roll dodge, block and streak doesnt have

Xandreia_

Rowjoh wrote: »

Xandreia_ wrote: »

Rowjoh wrote: »

.

R.I.P. pvp stealth/ganking/scouting etc.

Rip ganking? I get ganked multiple times a day by multiple people. We must not be playing the same game 😂

you're probably assuming that only nightblades are responsible for your demise - other classes are more than capable of successfully ganking - stealthing, some gear sets and invisibilty potions are open to all !

and if you're getting hit as much as multiple times a day it'll have nothing to do with a specific skill or class...

No, it's 100% nightblades, one of the many joys with playing with a streamer 😂 there is 5 that will follow us around trying (mostly failing) to gank us. Unless other classes have incap, I'm pretty sure these pests are nightblades lol

SaffronCitrusflower

Saint-Ange wrote: »

ProudMary wrote: »

The vast majority of the game is catered to the casual PvE player. What percentage of the game is PvE based vs. PvP based?

We're talking class balance not texture of the trees or kill ten rats.
The main focus of any type of player is gameplay first. A nice vivid world will never do for bad gameplay.

Everytime a skill is nerfed it's toward PvP class balance with zero consideration for PvE and it happens in all the games whom combat dev teams run after the Graal of balancing both PvE and PvP. I remember a meeting between game devs from different companies being organized by Massively-Joystick, before it became MassivelyOP. 100% of devs and journalists agreed it was impossible. All the tension come from this situation, it's a Gording knot that can only be solved by separating stuff for PvP and PvE.

merevie wrote: »

Ways to reveal nb:
siege
aoe
pots
magelight
FG
pets
put a dot on the nb that will tick and reveal them -lots are 15 secs+
run anywhere near other people doing any of these

A 2 or 3 sec cloak isn't a threat against all of that.

There is even a mythic that prevents you being ganked to wear.

Good players also have a multitude of ways of bouncing that damage back in a nb's face.

and some players block

Siege and AOE's don't break cloak. What's FG? Only sorc's and some wardens have pets. And dot's don't keep NB's from just hitting cloak again and going invisible right away again. Can't block what you don't see coming.

StarOfElyon

Yeah a ramping cost would be good.

Alharion

Why still attack NB? It is already the most massacred class in balancing in the game, and invisibility is the very basis of this class already difficult or unusable by an already very short time of use.

There are already spells that should be the basis of NB or this has been strangely attributed to other classes and some spells are hardly usable in pvp...

You should rather go after the DK or the arcanist who dominates the PVP far too much at the moment, the assassin already has a lot of things that do less well than the other classes, so no thanks, no need to destroy this class even more than it needs to!

The assassin class should deserve more love from devs and not a dogged anti-game drive for it right now...

For my part, I came back to make a jump on TESO, NB is my favorite class in MMORPG, but seeing the current state of NB, it doesn't really make me want to play TESO again, moreover, at the moment, the arcanist is more dangerous than the assassin in PVP...

RevJJ

StaticWave

ArchMikem wrote: »

You can't counter Streak. Two casts and they're well out of range of anything you can do to them.

Cloak. AoE's, Ability Detects, Detect Pots. Even the NB's own Dots they've placed brings them out whenever it ticks. Yes a gankblade is annoying bur this is a decayed Horse. Slot Magelight or Detect Pots and chase them down.

You can just run up to a Streaking sorc, like how I did in this video:

https://youtu.be/tfWfyBZbFfg

StaticWave

If Cloak doesn’t have a ramping cost increase, then I want them to revert the change to make AoE DoTs pull them out of stealth, while also reducing the potency or stealth detection.

It’s not like Camo Hunter is working well in detecting NBs. The 8m range is simply not enough distance due to location desync from the server. Even 12m is not enough if the NB moves fast. I shouldn’t have to waste an entire potion either just to counter 1 ability. Streaking is easily countered by just running up to the sorc, and movement speed is easily sourced with very little opportunity cost for investing in it.

And this is not to mention NBs who also use Shade with Cloak. Even if you do get them out of stealth with detection, they would just shade away, wait for cloak cooldown and repeat the process.

Tyrant_Tim

StaticWave wrote: »

If Cloak doesn’t have a ramping cost increase, then I want them to revert the change to make AoE DoTs pull them out of stealth, while also reducing the potency or stealth detection.

It’s not like Camo Hunter is working well in detecting NBs. The 8m range is simply not enough distance due to location desync from the server. Even 12m is not enough if the NB moves fast. I shouldn’t have to waste an entire potion either just to counter 1 ability. Streaking is easily countered by just running up to the sorc, and movement speed is easily sourced with very little opportunity cost for investing in it.

And this is not to mention NBs who also use Shade with Cloak. Even if you do get them out of stealth with detection, they would just shade away, wait for cloak cooldown and repeat the process.

What a funny comparison people have been making, Streak and Cloak…

While to go invisible you need to either make a massive sacrifice and go stage 4, enabling you to run for seconds achieving an easily breakable invisibility, literally any tiny abrupt change in elevation pulls you from invisibility while sprinting, then by nature denying any and all offensive capability mid-fight or even out of the fight ganking as it pulls you from stealth the second you charge up a heavy attack… not after. Then we have the other option… lose 30+ seconds uptime on a Major Buff to get a few seconds of invisibility from a potion that you have a 45 second cooldown on which doesn’t immediately return you to stealth if you break it during it’s duration.

If you want to Streak, any class can throw on Ellusive Mist, and enjoy the stacking costs associated with it.

Balance is parity and nobody else has an on-demand invisibility, while Magicka Nightblade has free reign on every other class toolkit. Crazy enough, it heals harder than a Templar, kites better than a Sorcerer, and has easier access to Major Resolve than any other class, including Dragonknight.

There’s nothing like Shadowy Disguise.

There’s a reason the other versions of evasion in the game all have ramping costs, and it’s obvious.

Edit: Also, I wouldn’t even try to get into a discussion about positional desync on these forums. Quite a few people around here don’t believe the game should be balanced by how it consistently performs.

NyassaV

If it gets a ramping cost then counters need to be removed from it. Make it suppress DOTs again.

If I use streak 4 times in a row there is basically a 90% chance that I will get away. If I use cloak 4 times in a row, I could still be dead even when using shade.

As it is now though, cloak has plenty of counters, slot one.

Tyrant_Tim

NyassaV wrote: »

If it gets a ramping cost then counters need to be removed from it. Make it suppress DOTs again.

If I use streak 4 times in a row there is basically a 90% chance that I will get away. If I use cloak 4 times in a row, I could still be dead even when using shade.

As it is now though, cloak has plenty of counters, slot one.

The same counters you’re mentioning can be applied to Streak, an immovable speed pot prevents the stun and gives the speed to catch your opponent and any gap closer works like Magelight…

Streak still has a stacking cost.

Weckless

StaticWave wrote: »

If Cloak doesn’t have a ramping cost increase, then I want them to revert the change to make AoE DoTs pull them out of stealth, while also reducing the potency or stealth detection.

It’s not like Camo Hunter is working well in detecting NBs. The 8m range is simply not enough distance due to location desync from the server. Even 12m is not enough if the NB moves fast. I shouldn’t have to waste an entire potion either just to counter 1 ability. Streaking is easily countered by just running up to the sorc, and movement speed is easily sourced with very little opportunity cost for investing in it.

And this is not to mention NBs who also use Shade with Cloak. Even if you do get them out of stealth with detection, they would just shade away, wait for cloak cooldown and repeat the process.

I think a lot of this stems from you playing with high ping. Cloak can definitely be a life saver sometimes. Unfortunately those sometimes are just not consistent and now even slotting cloak is a gamble that isn't worth taking. Im not against a ramping cost whatsoever and actually I'd welcome it if they made it work even just 50% of the time

Amottica

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Doenst a simple detect potion stop them from being invisible tough? If so, its a pretty big weakness roll dodge, block and streak doesnt have

And a number of other skills can pull players out of stealth and sneak. These counters have been proven to work extremely well.

Fortunately, Zenimax is of the mind that strong skills should have counters and they know they created strong counters for sneaking and stealth. It is also fabulous that they do not do the same thing with every skill because that would be lame.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

WaywardArgonian wrote: »

This is not an attack or provocation, but a genuine question, as I do wonder how many of the people who argue in favor of a ramping cloak cost have actually extensively played a Nightblade in PVP. As I found that having experienced cloak mechanics first-hand made me realize it's not as great as it might look, as well as enabling me to counter it pretty easily when I'm facing other NBs.

Usually, Nightblades who rely heavily on cloak aren't the cream of the crop, as the skill is too easily countered. If you're countered and you have no plan B, you're toast.

When I look at my more competent friends who play Nightblade, none of them use cloak as their primary defensive tool. Some of them straight-up don't slot it. If this skill is so broken and problematic, how come it is not even a given on a Nightblade's skillbar? If you want to talk about what makes Nightblades hard to deal with defensively these days, it'd make much more sense to focus on their healing prowess. Just standing in Refreshing Path and spamming Healthy Offering even makes squishblades seem tanky. And purely from a hard-to-counter point of view, something like Teleport Shade is way more frustrating to deal with than cloak.

Also do not forget, every shadow ability grants them major resolve.

StaticWave

NyassaV wrote: »

If it gets a ramping cost then counters need to be removed from it. Make it suppress DOTs again.

If I use streak 4 times in a row there is basically a 90% chance that I will get away. If I use cloak 4 times in a row, I could still be dead even when using shade.

As it is now though, cloak has plenty of counters, slot one.

Streak doesn’t save you from DoTs either, so I’m not sure why Cloak should suppress DoTs.

Weckless

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

WaywardArgonian wrote: »

This is not an attack or provocation, but a genuine question, as I do wonder how many of the people who argue in favor of a ramping cloak cost have actually extensively played a Nightblade in PVP. As I found that having experienced cloak mechanics first-hand made me realize it's not as great as it might look, as well as enabling me to counter it pretty easily when I'm facing other NBs.

Usually, Nightblades who rely heavily on cloak aren't the cream of the crop, as the skill is too easily countered. If you're countered and you have no plan B, you're toast.

When I look at my more competent friends who play Nightblade, none of them use cloak as their primary defensive tool. Some of them straight-up don't slot it. If this skill is so broken and problematic, how come it is not even a given on a Nightblade's skillbar? If you want to talk about what makes Nightblades hard to deal with defensively these days, it'd make much more sense to focus on their healing prowess. Just standing in Refreshing Path and spamming Healthy Offering even makes squishblades seem tanky. And purely from a hard-to-counter point of view, something like Teleport Shade is way more frustrating to deal with than cloak.

Also do not forget, every shadow ability grants them major resolve.

Idk if id necessarily count that as to great of a thing, I mean most classes armor buffs are pretty badass skills. Us getting it like that and losing out on a potentially kickass armor buff like volatile or plars buff that heals them and gives them like 400-500 recovery kinda makes it even out to me. Not really a positive or negative

Kram8ion

If performance was exceptional I may agree but it’s janky and not reliable
NB main 8yrs

red_emu

If cloak was to receive a ramping up cost, they would need to make a viable way to stop roll dodge and streak as well, and don't say "just stun them", as this grants CC immunity. NB can be reliably pulled out of cloak every 1 GCD, there is no way to reliably stop someone who can roll dodge 18 times in a row (which is pretty much standard in PvP, despite the ramping up cost).

Either that, or introduce a detection immunity cool down. Then it would be a fair game with ramping up costs.

i11ionward

Using 2-3 cloaks in a row is normal and part of NB gameplay, the cost shouldn't increase. But after 3 uses of cloak, NB is worth taking a break or enjoying the increased cost of cloak.

StaticWave

red_emu wrote: »

If cloak was to receive a ramping up cost, they would need to make a viable way to stop roll dodge and streak as well, and don't say "just stun them", as this grants CC immunity. NB can be reliably pulled out of cloak every 1 GCD, there is no way to reliably stop someone who can roll dodge 18 times in a row (which is pretty much standard in PvP, despite the ramping up cost).

Either that, or introduce a detection immunity cool down. Then it would be a fair game with ramping up costs.

It's called a gap closer. Have you ever been chased by someone with a gap closer as a sorc? I have, and it's pretty obnoxious.

You can't just rely on only Streak to get away. You have to combine Streak and fast movement speed. Streak only serves to create enough distance so that you can run away. Streaking 3x in a row without movement speed to back it up doesn't do anything but waste your magicka, while the other dude with a faster movement speed can just sprint up to you for barely 1k stam cost.

You need movement speed to get away fast enough while in cloak, or you'll be within range of detect skills. I see nothing wrong with cloak having a ramping cost at all.

Galeriano

Amottica wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Although ramping cost doesn't sound right from balance perspective, some form of drawback should be introduced to cloak.

It could for example block the ability to enter stealth with crouch afterwards for a certain period of time or it could extend duration of dodge roll fatigue or just add stacks to it. It could also go with the different approach and drastically lower healing recived while in cloak, something that some of the other games are doing.

This solution is already in the game. There are hard counters that prevent the immediate return to cloak or sneak. All we have to do is choose to use it. We often have someone who is running a hard counter.

If this would be reliable solution the same debate about cloak wouldn't go for almost 10 years.

Problem with solutions You are talking about is that they are often unreliable and they are not on the user's side forcing attackers to make sacrifices when cloak user makes none. Nightblade can even counter these solutions, often pretty easily, still without the need to slot any additional skills over what he would be normally using. They are not hard counters and in all honestly they shouldn't be. Stealth playstyle deserves to have a place in the game but cloak itself should have a drawback built in, same like abilities like streak or mist form have.

Galeriano

Amottica wrote: »

fastolfv_ESO wrote: »

if you look at cloak style abilitys in literally any mmo since the dawn of mmos you will see a massive cooldown or being done in ultimate style. The idea of spammable cloak is the most rediculous concept they cold have come up with, it needs to come with drawbacks to being used and easily accessible counters if its going to be spammable

Those games are not comparable. In those games, only specific classes could sneak around. In ESO everyone can sneak which is why we have a completely different design than those other games. We also have soft and hard counters to sneak and cloak whereas in many of those other games, any counter to stealth is usually limited to specific classes.

So not so ridiculous.

Sneak is not the same as invisibility. These are two different concepts in ESO and in other MMO games stealth is more like a invisibility rather than a sneak. Yes everyone in ESO can sneak around but only nightblade have reliable stealth playstyle especially when it comes to PvP. Yes other classes than nightblade can have acces to invisibility but these other types of invisibility comes with a sacrtifice, cloak doesn't.

We have these counters only because cloak in ESO is way beyond what many other games allow. In these games stealth have drawbacks built in itself so there is no need to throw bunch of soft or hard counters. This is something that ESO was always heavily missing; having a universal drawback on cloak itself rather than throwing bunch of counters against it with almost all of them being mediocre at best against every nightblade who knows what to do.

Weckless

StaticWave wrote: »

red_emu wrote: »

If cloak was to receive a ramping up cost, they would need to make a viable way to stop roll dodge and streak as well, and don't say "just stun them", as this grants CC immunity. NB can be reliably pulled out of cloak every 1 GCD, there is no way to reliably stop someone who can roll dodge 18 times in a row (which is pretty much standard in PvP, despite the ramping up cost).

Either that, or introduce a detection immunity cool down. Then it would be a fair game with ramping up costs.

It's called a gap closer. Have you ever been chased by someone with a gap closer as a sorc? I have, and it's pretty obnoxious.

You can't just rely on only Streak to get away. You have to combine Streak and fast movement speed. Streak only serves to create enough distance so that you can run away. Streaking 3x in a row without movement speed to back it up doesn't do anything but waste your magicka, while the other dude with a faster movement speed can just sprint up to you for barely 1k stam cost.

You need movement speed to get away fast enough while in cloak, or you'll be within range of detect skills. I see nothing wrong with cloak having a ramping cost at all.

Ball of Lightning really should have major expedition tbh

Id be all for counters to cloak though as long as they came with fixes to cloaks to reliability. I get annoyed with gankers just as much as the next guy.

Ramping cost could work but personally I think id rather detect skills become a toggle with the cost be the same as now just split over the time its used for. Maybe up the radius to 7 meters to fit the new melee range so pretty much if you can hit them you can see them.

HidesInPlainSight

Weckless wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

red_emu wrote: »

If cloak was to receive a ramping up cost, they would need to make a viable way to stop roll dodge and streak as well, and don't say "just stun them", as this grants CC immunity. NB can be reliably pulled out of cloak every 1 GCD, there is no way to reliably stop someone who can roll dodge 18 times in a row (which is pretty much standard in PvP, despite the ramping up cost).

Either that, or introduce a detection immunity cool down. Then it would be a fair game with ramping up costs.

It's called a gap closer. Have you ever been chased by someone with a gap closer as a sorc? I have, and it's pretty obnoxious.

You can't just rely on only Streak to get away. You have to combine Streak and fast movement speed. Streak only serves to create enough distance so that you can run away. Streaking 3x in a row without movement speed to back it up doesn't do anything but waste your magicka, while the other dude with a faster movement speed can just sprint up to you for barely 1k stam cost.

You need movement speed to get away fast enough while in cloak, or you'll be within range of detect skills. I see nothing wrong with cloak having a ramping cost at all.

Ball of Lightning really should have major expedition tbh

Id be all for counters to cloak though as long as they came with fixes to cloaks to reliability. I get annoyed with gankers just as much as the next guy.

Ramping cost could work but personally I think id rather detect skills become a toggle with the cost be the same as now just split over the time its used for. Maybe up the radius to 7 meters to fit the new melee range so pretty much if you can hit them you can see them.

Lol no it shouldn't. Sorcs do not need any more mobility. They are already the highest mobility class in the game and that is coming from a player with 6 sorcs,

All they need to do is make skills that reveal stealthed players not trash. You have better luck spamming Vigor or whatever area of effect skill with a direct "dmg" aspect then to use Hunter / Light / Flare to reveal after a failed gank.

Half the time you reveal the player with a skill that says they can't stealth again for a period of time, they can stealth immediately again.

SandandStars

Inner Light and Flare skils DO NOT PREVENT EXPOSED PLAYERS FROM IMMEDIATELY RECLOAKING.

This has been reported in Bug Reports multiple times.

Okay NBs, go ahead and defend Cloak ad nauseum, complain about how easy it is to use these skills & how Cloak is so weak you don’t even slot it.

I swear there are more NBs verbally ganking these forums than any other class.

Amottica

Galeriano wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Although ramping cost doesn't sound right from balance perspective, some form of drawback should be introduced to cloak.

It could for example block the ability to enter stealth with crouch afterwards for a certain period of time or it could extend duration of dodge roll fatigue or just add stacks to it. It could also go with the different approach and drastically lower healing recived while in cloak, something that some of the other games are doing.

This solution is already in the game. There are hard counters that prevent the immediate return to cloak or sneak. All we have to do is choose to use it. We often have someone who is running a hard counter.

If this would be reliable solution the same debate about cloak wouldn't go for almost 10 years.

Problem with solutions You are talking about is that they are often unreliable and they are not on the user's side forcing attackers to make sacrifices when cloak user makes none. Nightblade can even counter these solutions, often pretty easily, still without the need to slot any additional skills over what he would be normally using. They are not hard counters and in all honestly they shouldn't be. Stealth playstyle deserves to have a place in the game but cloak itself should have a drawback built in, same like abilities like streak or mist form have.

While bugs do occur in the game, this has been a reliable solution. I know because I have used it when playing solo and our group has at least one person with a hard counter slotted. And yes, there are hard counters to sneak and stealth in the game.

As far as an NB being able to counter being pulled out of stealth, well, an experienced NB will not be a one-button wonder. Just like any other skilled and experienced, they will utilize the tools they have available. It is what makes much of the difference between an experienced player and one that is less experienced.

Weckless

HidesInPlainSight wrote: »

Weckless wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

red_emu wrote: »

If cloak was to receive a ramping up cost, they would need to make a viable way to stop roll dodge and streak as well, and don't say "just stun them", as this grants CC immunity. NB can be reliably pulled out of cloak every 1 GCD, there is no way to reliably stop someone who can roll dodge 18 times in a row (which is pretty much standard in PvP, despite the ramping up cost).

Either that, or introduce a detection immunity cool down. Then it would be a fair game with ramping up costs.

It's called a gap closer. Have you ever been chased by someone with a gap closer as a sorc? I have, and it's pretty obnoxious.

You can't just rely on only Streak to get away. You have to combine Streak and fast movement speed. Streak only serves to create enough distance so that you can run away. Streaking 3x in a row without movement speed to back it up doesn't do anything but waste your magicka, while the other dude with a faster movement speed can just sprint up to you for barely 1k stam cost.

You need movement speed to get away fast enough while in cloak, or you'll be within range of detect skills. I see nothing wrong with cloak having a ramping cost at all.

Ball of Lightning really should have major expedition tbh

Id be all for counters to cloak though as long as they came with fixes to cloaks to reliability. I get annoyed with gankers just as much as the next guy.

Ramping cost could work but personally I think id rather detect skills become a toggle with the cost be the same as now just split over the time its used for. Maybe up the radius to 7 meters to fit the new melee range so pretty much if you can hit them you can see them.

Lol no it shouldn't. Sorcs do not need any more mobility. They are already the highest mobility class in the game and that is coming from a player with 6 sorcs,

All they need to do is make skills that reveal stealthed players not trash. You have better luck spamming Vigor or whatever area of effect skill with a direct "dmg" aspect then to use Hunter / Light / Flare to reveal after a failed gank.

Half the time you reveal the player with a skill that says they can't stealth again for a period of time, they can stealth immediately again.

Good idea I never thought of spamming Vigor to reveal a NB. That's just genius

And you're aware most stam sorcs don't even have major expedition in their build or a snare removal at all right? How mobile of them

StaticWave

HidesInPlainSight wrote: »

Weckless wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

red_emu wrote: »

If cloak was to receive a ramping up cost, they would need to make a viable way to stop roll dodge and streak as well, and don't say "just stun them", as this grants CC immunity. NB can be reliably pulled out of cloak every 1 GCD, there is no way to reliably stop someone who can roll dodge 18 times in a row (which is pretty much standard in PvP, despite the ramping up cost).

Either that, or introduce a detection immunity cool down. Then it would be a fair game with ramping up costs.

It's called a gap closer. Have you ever been chased by someone with a gap closer as a sorc? I have, and it's pretty obnoxious.

You can't just rely on only Streak to get away. You have to combine Streak and fast movement speed. Streak only serves to create enough distance so that you can run away. Streaking 3x in a row without movement speed to back it up doesn't do anything but waste your magicka, while the other dude with a faster movement speed can just sprint up to you for barely 1k stam cost.

You need movement speed to get away fast enough while in cloak, or you'll be within range of detect skills. I see nothing wrong with cloak having a ramping cost at all.

Ball of Lightning really should have major expedition tbh

Id be all for counters to cloak though as long as they came with fixes to cloaks to reliability. I get annoyed with gankers just as much as the next guy.

Ramping cost could work but personally I think id rather detect skills become a toggle with the cost be the same as now just split over the time its used for. Maybe up the radius to 7 meters to fit the new melee range so pretty much if you can hit them you can see them.

Lol no it shouldn't. Sorcs do not need any more mobility. They are already the highest mobility class in the game and that is coming from a player with 6 sorcs,

All they need to do is make skills that reveal stealthed players not trash. You have better luck spamming Vigor or whatever area of effect skill with a direct "dmg" aspect then to use Hunter / Light / Flare to reveal after a failed gank.

Half the time you reveal the player with a skill that says they can't stealth again for a period of time, they can stealth immediately again.

To spam that is costly, not to mention the range is not even that big.

I’d say revert the dot changes to cloak completely. AoE DoTs need to be reverted to being a soft counter for cloak.l. A NB shouldnt be able walk thru AoE DoTs without getting pulled out cloak.

Galeriano

Amottica wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Although ramping cost doesn't sound right from balance perspective, some form of drawback should be introduced to cloak.

It could for example block the ability to enter stealth with crouch afterwards for a certain period of time or it could extend duration of dodge roll fatigue or just add stacks to it. It could also go with the different approach and drastically lower healing recived while in cloak, something that some of the other games are doing.

This solution is already in the game. There are hard counters that prevent the immediate return to cloak or sneak. All we have to do is choose to use it. We often have someone who is running a hard counter.

If this would be reliable solution the same debate about cloak wouldn't go for almost 10 years.

Problem with solutions You are talking about is that they are often unreliable and they are not on the user's side forcing attackers to make sacrifices when cloak user makes none. Nightblade can even counter these solutions, often pretty easily, still without the need to slot any additional skills over what he would be normally using. They are not hard counters and in all honestly they shouldn't be. Stealth playstyle deserves to have a place in the game but cloak itself should have a drawback built in, same like abilities like streak or mist form have.

While bugs do occur in the game, this has been a reliable solution. I know because I have used it when playing solo and our group has at least one person with a hard counter slotted. And yes, there are hard counters to sneak and stealth in the game.

As far as an NB being able to counter being pulled out of stealth, well, an experienced NB will not be a one-button wonder. Just like any other skilled and experienced, they will utilize the tools they have available. It is what makes much of the difference between an experienced player and one that is less experienced.

It wasn't and still isn't a reliable solution unless by reliable You mean capable to work fine against unexperienced solo wondering players relying too heavily on cloak alone, panicking if cloak fails even once. Bugs have nothing to do with these solutions being unreliable in their core. There really isn't a true hard counter to the invisibility part of the nightblade's stealth playstyle.

SaffronCitrusflower

A cloaked NB not only is not revealed when hit with player skills, they don't even take damage. As it is now a cloaked NB can stand right in front of a player using an AOE and nothing what so ever happens to them, they are not revealed and they don't take damage.

It's a broken system as it is now.