It's time to uphold NB Cloak to the same standards!

GrimStyx

Redguards_Revenge wrote: »

No questions.

Cloak should ramp up in cost after being spammed within x seconds.(5 seconds)

Cloak is similar to roll dodge, block and streak! If not better!

Roll dodge removes direct damage for the duration of the roll AoE, DoT still affect them and they are visible.

Block lowers direct damage, AoE, DoT still affect them, and they are visible. (I finally see why DoT builds are powerful, block doesn't block DoT lol)


Cloak removes direct damage AND Suppresses DoT? (I am not sure about AoE, does it matter? most AoEs are small. Not only that 2 seconds per tick for the larger ones give ample time to walk out of them with the weak damage.) Then they have a guaranteed critical strike or critical heal?

EDIT:
Cloak removes channels like Templar Beam and suppresses Templar Light. roll dodge, block, streak etc. doesn't. That's a partial purge. RAMP UP THE COST!
Stack that with Vampire and there is no other class quite like NB...NB has the highest crit in the game...probably crit damage...and a guaranteed crit...and then vampire gives it even more weapon damage? Come on.

Tell me how does one hide in light?

You know what I hate the most? When one is crouching, and the NB can see you while stealthed but you can't see them. Just to use a detect skill and see nothing still. Then they attack like it was such a surprise. No, I knew you were there for a while. Detection mechanics in the game let's you really get close in for a whiff, but I can't see you. I know you're there but I don't know where. It's like I am an Oblivion NPC.
:ENDEDIT

I find it strange and disconnected.

Just like when I jumped off the ledge in BGs and an arcanist charmed me and instead of hitting the ground it made me walk back up on the ledge 2 stories high. But That's a different post.

NBs aren't squishy. They choose to be squishy. Sorcs do as well, and they have to streak with a ramping cost while being seen.

NB's aren't glass because they are NBs...They are glass because of cloak.

Identity? Ask a templar what that means and see their identity ripped through 3 classes.

I have a song and it goes like this.

When I go in bgs all I see is, NB, DK , NB,DK,
When I go into cyrodil, I swallow the red pill because everyone is still, NB, DK, NB, DK,
Arcanist might be here and there, but then they'll still die everywhere there is NB, DK , NB, DK

Chorus
NB, DK, NB, DK
NB, DK ,NB, DK
Is this really OK?
NB, DK, NB, DK
NB, DK ,NB, DK
Do I really want to fight? (I didn't know if you guys were going to pronounce Dee-Kay... or say it DragonKnight so I tossed in both)

In principle, the NB raincoat is really easy to counter, I can calmly sit down and if the NB runs next to me, I will know about it and I will be ready. There are many abilities that do not allow you to go into invisibility, well, or I can just burn a thin nb with dot damage, but of course it is very annoying when the enemy constantly spams the shadow, it definitely needs a buff with the condition that the cost will increase for frequent skill spamming

Dojohoda

What standards? Shadowy disguise is not up to snuff as it is. It's a crap skill and has been nerfed and had counters piled up on it over the years. Let's see other "get-away" skills brought down to nightblade's shadowy disguise and see how much you like that. eh

Amottica

Dekrypted wrote: »

The forums is known for people willing to say anything to defend their class from getting nerfed, .

And the forum is known for people willing to say anything to defend a nerf because they do not want to figure out how to deal with something that many other players handle every day.

Weckless

Heres a teaser video finally showcasing why NBs need nerfing. Send me clips of you asserting your dominance if you have any to add to the finished version
https://youtu.be/rTGlpUvj3Uc

Sikon

So where is the Problem in this video or is it just a sarcasm? I just see a relatively bad played NB, getting hit out of cloak and struggling to survive. The "life saving" ability at least is not even a class spell but the Psijiik Ultimate..

What you can see on this Video is bad defense/resistance on NB. Like I mentioned they are a unforgiving class if not played "perfectly". You struggle alot if you press wrong buttons or Dodgerolls too often.
Tanky classes would just stay on the flag and hold a bit Block in this situation.

GooGa592

Amottica wrote: »

Dekrypted wrote: »

The forums is known for people willing to say anything to defend their class from getting nerfed, .

And the forum is known for people willing to say anything to defend a nerf because they do not want to figure out how to deal with something that many other players handle every day.

Seems more like NB's coming out of the woodwork to defend an over performing "skill" to me.

Foxtrot39

StaticWave wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

If it gets a ramping cost then counters need to be removed from it. Make it suppress DOTs again.

If I use streak 4 times in a row there is basically a 90% chance that I will get away. If I use cloak 4 times in a row, I could still be dead even when using shade.

As it is now though, cloak has plenty of counters, slot one.

Streak doesn’t save you from DoTs either, so I’m not sure why Cloak should suppress DoTs.

Because taking damage pulled you out of cloak making any dot a cloak denial tool

Amottica

GooGa592 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Dekrypted wrote: »

The forums is known for people willing to say anything to defend their class from getting nerfed, .

And the forum is known for people willing to say anything to defend a nerf because they do not want to figure out how to deal with something that many other players handle every day.

Seems more like NB's coming out of the woodwork to defend an over performing "skill" to me.

Or that have taken the time to learn to use the counters effectively merely pointing out the facts of the matter.

Galeriano

RedFireDisco wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Although ramping cost doesn't sound right from balance perspective, some form of drawback should be introduced to cloak.

It could for example block the ability to enter stealth with crouch afterwards for a certain period of time or it could extend duration of dodge roll fatigue or just add stacks to it. It could also go with the different approach and drastically lower healing recived while in cloak, something that some of the other games are doing.

This solution is already in the game. There are hard counters that prevent the immediate return to cloak or sneak. All we have to do is choose to use it. We often have someone who is running a hard counter.

If this would be reliable solution the same debate about cloak wouldn't go for almost 10 years.

Problem with solutions You are talking about is that they are often unreliable and they are not on the user's side forcing attackers to make sacrifices when cloak user makes none. Nightblade can even counter these solutions, often pretty easily, still without the need to slot any additional skills over what he would be normally using. They are not hard counters and in all honestly they shouldn't be. Stealth playstyle deserves to have a place in the game but cloak itself should have a drawback built in, same like abilities like streak or mist form have.

While bugs do occur in the game, this has been a reliable solution. I know because I have used it when playing solo and our group has at least one person with a hard counter slotted. And yes, there are hard counters to sneak and stealth in the game.

As far as an NB being able to counter being pulled out of stealth, well, an experienced NB will not be a one-button wonder. Just like any other skilled and experienced, they will utilize the tools they have available. It is what makes much of the difference between an experienced player and one that is less experienced.

It wasn't and still isn't a reliable solution unless by reliable You mean capable to work fine against unexperienced solo wondering players relying too heavily on cloak alone, panicking if cloak fails even once. Bugs have nothing to do with these solutions being unreliable in their core. There really isn't a true hard counter to the invisibility part of the nightblade's stealth playstyle.

Of course, the counter to cloak is more effective against the less experienced NB as the more experienced one utilizes more tools than just a cloak. So I fail to see the point in bringing that up. But the fact remains there are both hard and soft counters to cloak. The hard ones do in fact put a debuff on the NB (or any player sneaking) that prevents them from entering stealth for a few seconds, enough to do some real damage and then refresh the counter. It works and works very well against NBs that rely on cloak. I know they are reliable in their core because I use them.

Against less skilled nightblades You don't even need specific cloak counters [snip] There is lot of nightblade players performing poorly in PvP. This is propably one of the reasons they choose stealth based class in the first place. This is also why so many nightblades defends cloak and says there are reliable counters. This is why it's worth to bring this up.

Against every nightblade who is either range playstyle or have some level of experience things You call as hard counters very often don't even work as soft counters. These abilites take bar space, cost lot of resources to cast, cover pretty small area and as You've mentioned last only for few seconds. Any nightblade who knows what he is doing will easily counter that just by using his mobility (which he right now is one of the best classes at), dodging (which he right now have tool to lower cost of it) and healing (he recived one of the best spammable selfheals). It's also worth to mention how wonky reveal itself works but that's more of a technical issue.

As I've mentioned for solo play it works only against extremly unskilled nightblades [snip] but that doesn't change a fact playstyle itself is busted when played properly. You mentioned You are often outnumbering these nightblades to defeat them which is completly different story.

These counters in their core nature are not reliable and they are definietly not a hard counters. If they would, devs wouldn't constantly try to buff them and we wouldn't have the same conversation for almost 10 years now. [snip]

[edited for baiting]

Sorry. I cannot speak to how to counter cloak with a NB that is at a distance (ranged) since I cannot recall having problems with a ranged player. I just LOS them. They have to come to me.

As far as when I mentioned being with my group, yes that is outnumbering a NB if that is the only target we are dealing with. I also go solo and always have a hard counter on my bar so my experience is extremely on point from an experienced player perspective.

So again, these counters are, at their core, very effective the ones that are hard counters are in fact reliable hard counters. I will attest that when I first started using them I floundered. Experience paid off just like it does with pretty much anything PvP.

Cool story but sadly it have little to do with reality. You cherrypick situations that suits You agenda and ignore multiple situations that don't. If Your solution to fight single nightblade, is hugging to obstacle counting that player behind the keyboard will be naive enough to enter meele brawl with You than I must tell You that You admitted that ranged nightblade is busted. As I've said already running with group or facing some ganker one on one is not the whole picture.

No there is currently zero reliable and effective counters to cloak against any properly build nightblade who more or less knows what to do. I know because I laugh at people using these "counters" when i play on nightblade. More often than not I can easily survive and if I will die it is only due to me making some ridicolous mistake. Fact that there is plenty of nightblades who rely on cloak too much and play very poorly won't change the reality of cloak counters being very weak.

As I've said multiple times if these counters would be reliable ZoS wouldn't have to continously buff them and we wouldn't have the same debate about cloak consistantly for 10 years already. it's just a fact, You really can't disprove that.

Galeriano wrote: »

RedFireDisco wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

RedFireDisco wrote: »

Yes, but only if we do the same to shields. Make them last 3 seconds like cloak and increase the cost and also give us a potion that removes the opponent's shield.

See how ridiculous that sounds

If cloak would recive as many nerfs as shields did, nightblade population would be almost extinct at that point. And if You want to bring shields to cloak standards than You also will want to give every shield user a instant cast, non pet, strong and cheap burst heal plus high base mobility combined with decent damage avoidance. You will then also need to introduce abilities and buffs to help shields users to easily deal with that shield countering potion same as nightblades can deal with detect potions and give shield users more base survivability to bring them up to nightblade standards.

The only ridicolous thing was bringing shields to make a point. Also the class most known and critiqued for using shields was always sorc which have an ability with a drawback in the form of streak so one can say in a twisted way You kinda prove with Your argument that nightblade also need an ability with a drawback.

But cloaks has received more nerfs than shields from day one, so far it's 8 nerfs for anyone counting vs 4 for shields, so, that's 100% more

It didn't. I would really like to know what changes to cloak You consider when talking about these 8 nerfs because I suspect it will be a fun lecture to read with mostly some minor tweaks being mentioned as nerfs. What is worth to take under consideration is magnitude of the nerf. No cloak nerf can come close to shields for example going down from 20 seconds to 6 seconds. It changed one of the core aspects of how shields are being used. If You want to play in math games that's a 70% duration nerf, so if You want to make one on one comparisions imagine if that would happen to a cloak and it would end up lasting 0,9 sec. Taking away crit immunity from shields was also a massive change that forced sorcs to completly change their setups and fact that shields now have users resistances do not compensate for that at all.

There was nothing like that happening to cloak. The only thing I can think of was changing 5 DoTs removal to just DoTs not kicking nb out of cloak but tbh with today's standards and how many DoTs You can have applied on You sometimes that is actually a buff since there are setups that can consistantly keep 6+ DoTs on You. Cloak also recived decent buffs some basically gamechanging ones like for example fact that AoE DoTs no longer reveal cloaked nb.

And while nightblade especially lately was reciving hefty buffs to all the other aspects of the defense, shields users especially magsorcs were getting close to nothing. Only lately ZoS decided to slightly buff magsorcs shield value which have almost zero impact on overall performance of the class when things like new versions of healthy offering, shadow image, concealed weapon, blur etc drastically improved nightblade's defense even without cloak. There is even new mist form that some nightblades incorporated to their kits with a success. Imagine if sorc would get shields changed to cloak-like instant cast ability and on top of that recived non pet instant cast burst heal, easy acces to both major and minor expedition, major evasion combined with dodge cost reduction and snare+immobilize removal+imminity and something resembling shadow image. Forums would go wild.

Shield duration change didn't affect the cost or strength of shields. Any combo ate up a shield and NO ONE in the top bazillion players only casted a shield every 20 seconds. You literally lost NO shield power whatsoever and it affected all mag shield users of all classes running annulment.

I'd put the shield crit nerf in the same category as the dot nerf for cloak.

Sorc got guaranteed concussion status, extra health shield modulation, minor berserk and minor force

That's massive and it's ridiculously disingenuous to state otherwise. Magblade lost minor beserk and it was a big deal

There are NO ranged magblades anymore. That's how much the nerfs have destroyed them. They're gone. You either mag melee or wet noodle someone with swallow soul until they kill you

Every magsorc can use hurricane for EASY minor expedition. Seriously!

& many NBs dropped shadow for elusive because of its cost-on-use application and speed - There's nothing stopping magsorcs doing the same unless you admit that streak is better than shadow image with damage + stun + escape.

Shield duration nerf changed fundamentally how shields are being used and crippled their strenght and their magicka consumption a lot. Before that nerf shields were used basically as a health extension and You could always have them active making them effective anti gank tool and very strong while being chased down or 1vXing. You could always have them active outside of combat while entering some danger zone and after duration nerf that became less effective and more more expensive strategy.

Crit nerf on shields is way beyond DoT nerf to cloak. Crit resistance on shields meant that You could build low/mediocre hp, high magicka setup with usefull traits other than impenetrable to maximize shield value to empower even more assets mentioned in first paragraph. Both these changes literally changed how shield based setups especially sorcs are being build and played. Now even if You have shields in Your defensive kit You still need to build high health and decent resistances like everyone else, something that was not a thing before mentioned nerfs to shields happened. This in result causes issues with building reliable offense on shield based setups. DoT 'nerf" on cloak in today's standards is actually a buff because currently many setups can easily keep 5+ DoTs on You meaning that old cloak purging up to 5 DoTs would require 2 casts to get away but after Your first cast someone could already reaply some DoTs which could be permanent counter to DoT cleanisng cloak and if there would be more than one enemy attacking Your with Dots Your cloak would be basically waste of slot. And now also AoE DoTs do not kick You out of cloak which they did in the past which is a massive buff to a cloak.

There is no guaranteed concussion on sorc, You mixed siomething up. And even if there would be considering how many people is running with elemental susceptibility these days it would really mean nothing. Shields scaling from health changed literally nothing. To benefit from that change You would have to start running with more HP than magicka but Your scaling cap on HP is lower than on magicka so You would end up with shield value noticably lower than magicka based setup. Minor nberserk and force are nice but they are easily available elsewhere and if You want to have both Your are leaning more towards stamsorc which usually have minor bwerserk through camo hunter and 10 sec minor force really doesnt change much. 20 sec of minor berserk on mag sorc is nice but nowhere near calling it massive.

Saying thse changes are massive is disingenous in the first place. Magblade got minor berserk replaced with unique "up to 300 wep/spell dmg" which is way better because it buffs both Your healing and dmg and adds more than additive 5% dmg minor berserk provides. Nightblade also got class kit packed with so many minor/major buffs that he have easily available free skill slot for camo hunter so he ended up with minor berserk+300 wep spell dmg so he gained something rather than loosing it. it was also never a big deal that nightblade lost class access to minor berserk in the first place. Nightblade community like always was overreacting.

What do You mean by saying "there is no ranged nightblades anymore"? Currently like 1/3 of PvP nightblade population on PC EU are snipe spamming archers which are a ranged setups. That is possibly the most popular nightblade setup atm. Nightblade throughout last two years got multitude of strong buffs. It's not devs fault that majority of people playing the class is simply pretty average at PvP.

Every nightblade can slot conceraled weapon for even easier minor expedition and top it off with major expedition from refreshing path.

Many nightblades have dropped cloak because with so many buffs class got to base defense You can play as a brawler setup. That really doesn't change a fact that cloak is still a busted ability in its core design.

GooGa592

Amottica wrote: »

GooGa592 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Dekrypted wrote: »

The forums is known for people willing to say anything to defend their class from getting nerfed, .

And the forum is known for people willing to say anything to defend a nerf because they do not want to figure out how to deal with something that many other players handle every day.

Seems more like NB's coming out of the woodwork to defend an over performing "skill" to me.

Or that have taken the time to learn to use the counters effectively merely pointing out the facts of the matter.

The only thing that works reliably is a detect pot, and thats only been for the last couple weeks since they increased the range for them.

Weckless

Sikon wrote: »

So where is the Problem in this video or is it just a sarcasm? I just see a relatively bad played NB, getting hit out of cloak and struggling to survive. The "life saving" ability at least is not even a class spell but the Psijiik Ultimate..

What you can see on this Video is bad defense/resistance on NB. Like I mentioned they are a unforgiving class if not played "perfectly". You struggle alot if you press wrong buttons or Dodgerolls too often.
Tanky classes would just stay on the flag and hold a bit Block in this situation.

Im being sarcastic showing where cloak failed [snip]. And those were 3 actually good players in a 3 man piling me. It doesnt matter how good you are 3v1 against good players you are going to struggle to survive [snip]

Besides none of that matters the point is those were 4 different times cloak failed when it shouldnt have and one of them i didn't even take damage it just mysteriously didn't work. Don't change the subject.

But if you're on my platform we can meet up and ill show you a badly played NB i don't use cloak in 1v1s so you or anyone on xbox can test me my gt is West Tickles

[Edited for Baiting]

Amottica

GooGa592 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

GooGa592 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Dekrypted wrote: »

The forums is known for people willing to say anything to defend their class from getting nerfed, .

And the forum is known for people willing to say anything to defend a nerf because they do not want to figure out how to deal with something that many other players handle every day.

Seems more like NB's coming out of the woodwork to defend an over performing "skill" to me.

Or that have taken the time to learn to use the counters effectively merely pointing out the facts of the matter.

The only thing that works reliably is a detect pot, and thats only been for the last couple weeks since they increased the range for them.

More than that works reliably. However, you bring up a good point as what one may consider working reliably is that it is easy for them to use.

I have stated that the use of the counters to cloak took me time to figure out how to use them effectively and which ones I liked the most. So yes, with the detect pot being made easier to use will help those who have not taken the time as I have.

Weckless

Amottica wrote: »

GooGa592 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

GooGa592 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Dekrypted wrote: »

The forums is known for people willing to say anything to defend their class from getting nerfed, .

And the forum is known for people willing to say anything to defend a nerf because they do not want to figure out how to deal with something that many other players handle every day.

Seems more like NB's coming out of the woodwork to defend an over performing "skill" to me.

Or that have taken the time to learn to use the counters effectively merely pointing out the facts of the matter.

The only thing that works reliably is a detect pot, and thats only been for the last couple weeks since they increased the range for them.

More than that works reliably. However, you bring up a good point as what one may consider working reliably is that it is easy for them to use.

I have stated that the use of the counters to cloak took me time to figure out how to use them effectively and which ones I liked the most. So yes, with the detect pot being made easier to use will help those who have not taken the time as I have.

Exactly they don't understand how to use anything other than push a button and get 16 seconds to kill them. With reveal skills you have to use them preemptively to get the most out of them. If they're about to die suppress that frenzied urge you get to kill them for one second and use your reveal early so that when they inevitably cloak you already have your detection up. They won't listen though all they want is hurr durr nb go dead

SandandStars

Uhhhh, yeah, this isn’t some big secret.

Regardless, once revealed, nearly all of the good NBs I encounter immediately cloak/recloak when using Inner Light or Blinding Flare.

There is more to this issue than “Learn to Play.”

JerBearESO

SandandStars wrote: »

Uhhhh, yeah, this isn’t some big secret.

Regardless, once revealed, nearly all of the good NBs I encounter immediately cloak/recloak when using Inner Light or Blinding Flare.

There is more to this issue than “Learn to Play.”

This can possibly be because reveal prevents cloaking ONLY if it pulled them out of cloak. Using a reveal on the area where they are right as they exit cloak on their own may be creating confusion, because in this scenario they will not be marked for anti cloak

Alchimiste1

Nb main here, I am completely on board with ramp on increase to cloak like streak.

Weckless

Idc about ramping increase either but some people have some crazy suggestions in this mf

Weckless

JerBearESO wrote: »

SandandStars wrote: »

Uhhhh, yeah, this isn’t some big secret.

Regardless, once revealed, nearly all of the good NBs I encounter immediately cloak/recloak when using Inner Light or Blinding Flare.

There is more to this issue than “Learn to Play.”

This can possibly be because reveal prevents cloaking ONLY if it pulled them out of cloak. Using a reveal on the area where they are right as they exit cloak on their own may be creating confusion, because in this scenario they will not be marked for anti cloak

Idk Id be lying if I said the "prevents them from entering cloak again for x seconds" reliably worked. But if they fix that they need to fix the things that pull you out that shouldnt as well. I also wouldnt mind ground aoes pulling you out of cloak either as long as it functioned right. No PbAoE dots like hurricane though lol that was miserable

JerBearESO

Would be best if only direct damage from AoE abilities pulled, but not effects like a proc from a DoT

Weckless

Im js id be willing to compromise and take ramping cost and stuff like caltrops pulling me out of cloak if they fixed it and made it reliable in every other aspect. Oh and let us cast shade in the air again 🥳

KaironBlackbard

I main an Argonian NB T4 Vampire.
I get one-shotted in PvP.
My damage is miserable, but for normal PvE is ok.
My sustain I used to think was trash, until I nearly soloed Dragonstar Arena in Cyrodiil. The Deadra Boss Fight kept wiping me out because I could never stop the tough Sacrifice from transforming into a Deadric Titan.
NPCs tend to see through Cloak, especially bosses.
Sure, activating just before a projectile hits Can cause it to miss, but it doesn't always.
Sometimes Blood Mist is better, sometimes cloak is.
I would like a toggled cloak though, that'd be nice.
I main T4 Vamp for insivisprint mostly, and partially for the bonus damage after failing to cloak.
Seriously, my cloak failed absurdly in that Arena.
Also, revealing effects are my nemesis in PvP, as I can't invisirun or cloak or sneak for a good 6 seconds +. Every PvP engagement I've had has suppressed my stealth capabilities because someone's running Mage Light or Flare or other revealing skill.
The only perks I have good for PvP are things like Mark Target, but I still don't know if that aids my allies or only myself.
Blood Mist and Bats Scion make an insane AoE DPS combo, and Nightblade Area Siphon to deal heavy area damage and self healing. Yet I still died to the Titan.
I use Ice Staff as well, giving me more blocking potential and giving me 6k+ Damage Shield on full heavy attacks.
And I'm no longer talking about cloak, wonderful.
Cloak is fine as it is, though sometimes Underpowered for PvE, and totally useless in PvP.
A Toggleable Cloak would be awesome.

KaironBlackbard

Redguards_Revenge wrote: »

Removing detection has nothing to do with cloaking because people still crouch or run for 5 seconds as a vampire.

False. I can't invisirun or crouch or cloak or use invisibility potion when My stealth is being suppressed by revealing effects.
Happens in Every PvP encounter I engage in, and in the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood daily raids if I stay too close to the guards with lanterns or move faster than they are.

KaironBlackbard

Starbridge84 wrote: »

Kisakee wrote: »

Ist just useless to argue with someone who doesn't have the understanding

Starbridge84 wrote: »

Ramping cost is needed 100%!

No, it's not.

I can see that you are in defense of NB and that's ok. The problem with NB cloak is that some builds have unlimited sustain which means they can be invisible all the time even while attacking because a rotation where you can attack/cloak/attack/cloak doesn't seem a little broken to you? And yes, I have seen this tactic first hand as well as watched it done on streams. You can't streak or dodge roll unlimitedly, so why is cloak getting a pass?

Every damage tick a NB takes pulls them out of stealth, but it doesn't matter if you can just spam cloak. That needs to change and a ramping cost would balance it.

Something Else I found or felt, might just be me, but I'd cloak and lose them to Ember (in Arena), no one would target me, I cloak and start charging my Ice Staff Heavy Attack, and I'd instantly get pulled out of cloak when I start charging it, takes a good 2+ seconds to charge and thus I'm vulnerable to be attacked.
Haven't yet played PvP since the changed to Mist Form making it a dodge instead of an escape and deterrent from players.
Though I must say the new form gives it a whole lot more usefulness in combat, at least for Blood Mist.
Also makes its base form and speed form totally useless.
I used to use IM DOING IT AGAIN.
Cloak, this is about cloak, this is about cloak...

My invisibility costs over 6k no matter what I do, though Darloc helps regain and sustain it for me, I haven't found anything else that can.
Like a less potent but also stealthy version of Psijic Order's Meditation.
700 restore a sec, Meditate does over 1.2k/sec.
I also focus on speed traits (jewelry), divines (armor), and Steed Stone to maximize my speed for easier escapes.
Medium Armor to maximize stealth, and

GooGa592

Amottica wrote: »

GooGa592 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

GooGa592 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Dekrypted wrote: »

The forums is known for people willing to say anything to defend their class from getting nerfed, .

And the forum is known for people willing to say anything to defend a nerf because they do not want to figure out how to deal with something that many other players handle every day.

Seems more like NB's coming out of the woodwork to defend an over performing "skill" to me.

Or that have taken the time to learn to use the counters effectively merely pointing out the facts of the matter.

The only thing that works reliably is a detect pot, and thats only been for the last couple weeks since they increased the range for them.

More than that works reliably. However, you bring up a good point as what one may consider working reliably is that it is easy for them to use.

I have stated that the use of the counters to cloak took me time to figure out how to use them effectively and which ones I liked the most. So yes, with the detect pot being made easier to use will help those who have not taken the time as I have.

It's simply not true that most of the skills and other methods of revealing NB's work reliably. The only thing that works reliably are detect pots, and that's only just recently.

It's not a learn to play issue. It's an NB's crutching on a broken, OP skill issue.

Weckless

GooGa592 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

GooGa592 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

GooGa592 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Dekrypted wrote: »

The forums is known for people willing to say anything to defend their class from getting nerfed, .

And the forum is known for people willing to say anything to defend a nerf because they do not want to figure out how to deal with something that many other players handle every day.

Seems more like NB's coming out of the woodwork to defend an over performing "skill" to me.

Or that have taken the time to learn to use the counters effectively merely pointing out the facts of the matter.

The only thing that works reliably is a detect pot, and thats only been for the last couple weeks since they increased the range for them.

More than that works reliably. However, you bring up a good point as what one may consider working reliably is that it is easy for them to use.

I have stated that the use of the counters to cloak took me time to figure out how to use them effectively and which ones I liked the most. So yes, with the detect pot being made easier to use will help those who have not taken the time as I have.

It's simply not true that most of the skills and other methods of revealing NB's work reliably. The only thing that works reliably are detect pots, and that's only just recently.

It's not a learn to play issue. It's an NB's crutching on a broken, OP skill issue.

Then you arent using the skills correctly or while in range. And youre right it is broken. The video i posted prove how broken it was. If you crutch on cloak for defense you will die because it is not a reliable skill. Theres a reason most NBs dont even slot it anymore.

ProudMary

Weckless wrote: »

GooGa592 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

GooGa592 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

GooGa592 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Dekrypted wrote: »

The forums is known for people willing to say anything to defend their class from getting nerfed, .

And the forum is known for people willing to say anything to defend a nerf because they do not want to figure out how to deal with something that many other players handle every day.

Seems more like NB's coming out of the woodwork to defend an over performing "skill" to me.

Or that have taken the time to learn to use the counters effectively merely pointing out the facts of the matter.

The only thing that works reliably is a detect pot, and thats only been for the last couple weeks since they increased the range for them.

More than that works reliably. However, you bring up a good point as what one may consider working reliably is that it is easy for them to use.

I have stated that the use of the counters to cloak took me time to figure out how to use them effectively and which ones I liked the most. So yes, with the detect pot being made easier to use will help those who have not taken the time as I have.

It's simply not true that most of the skills and other methods of revealing NB's work reliably. The only thing that works reliably are detect pots, and that's only just recently.

It's not a learn to play issue. It's an NB's crutching on a broken, OP skill issue.

Then you arent using the skills correctly or while in range. And youre right it is broken. The video i posted prove how broken it was. If you crutch on cloak for defense you will die because it is not a reliable skill. Theres a reason most NBs dont even slot it anymore.

Every NB in cyrodiil spams cloak. That's just a fact.

Weckless

ProudMary wrote: »

Weckless wrote: »

GooGa592 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

GooGa592 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

GooGa592 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Dekrypted wrote: »

The forums is known for people willing to say anything to defend their class from getting nerfed, .

And the forum is known for people willing to say anything to defend a nerf because they do not want to figure out how to deal with something that many other players handle every day.

Seems more like NB's coming out of the woodwork to defend an over performing "skill" to me.

Or that have taken the time to learn to use the counters effectively merely pointing out the facts of the matter.

The only thing that works reliably is a detect pot, and thats only been for the last couple weeks since they increased the range for them.

More than that works reliably. However, you bring up a good point as what one may consider working reliably is that it is easy for them to use.

I have stated that the use of the counters to cloak took me time to figure out how to use them effectively and which ones I liked the most. So yes, with the detect pot being made easier to use will help those who have not taken the time as I have.

It's simply not true that most of the skills and other methods of revealing NB's work reliably. The only thing that works reliably are detect pots, and that's only just recently.

It's not a learn to play issue. It's an NB's crutching on a broken, OP skill issue.

Then you arent using the skills correctly or while in range. And youre right it is broken. The video i posted prove how broken it was. If you crutch on cloak for defense you will die because it is not a reliable skill. Theres a reason most NBs dont even slot it anymore.

Every NB in cyrodiil spams cloak. That's just a fact.

Get your facts straight. Every ganker in pvp spams cloak

Weckless

Hyperbolic statements have no place in real discussion

schoober

Anyway.. That is a great idea of how to ruin the game for a lot of players, and how to ruin a class identity that is based on stealth. Lots of people who enjoy the class will have one less reason to play the game. Including me. So yeah, if cloak gets nerfed you won't see many nbs playing pvp.

Sikon

This is the basic class description of Nightblade:

"Attack from the shadows, drain your foes' health, and vanish into the void with the Nightblade Class. The shadows truly are your greatest weapon as you wield abilities that deal devastating damage at any range and siphon your victim's lifeforce to your allies.
As a Nightblade, all of Tamriel fears your deadly unseen strike."

... and now ask ZOS again to nerf cloak or delete it from game. Makes no sense right?