This is battlegrounds on live. Well deserved nerfs.

techprince wrote: »

This is battlegrounds on live. Well deserved nerfs.

Looking at all the damage ticks tells me you are not wearing much crit resistance or have very little resistances overall.

Can you provide your stats with the post so we can gauge better? As its Battlegrounds there is no CP so remove all of that. Thanks

techprince wrote: »

James-Wayne wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

This is battlegrounds on live. Well deserved nerfs.

Looking at all the damage ticks tells me you are not wearing much crit resistance or have very little resistances overall.

Can you provide your stats with the post so we can gauge better? As its Battlegrounds there is no CP so remove all of that. Thanks

Dont tell us you havent seen 30K heavy one shots. Youtube is full of it.

Heavy oneshots weren't because of lightning heavy, they were because of stacking ultimate heal with simmering frenzy on DK.

techprince wrote: »

James-Wayne wrote: »

techprince wrote: »

This is battlegrounds on live. Well deserved nerfs.

Looking at all the damage ticks tells me you are not wearing much crit resistance or have very little resistances overall.

Can you provide your stats with the post so we can gauge better? As its Battlegrounds there is no CP so remove all of that. Thanks

Dont tell us you havent seen 30K heavy one shots. Youtube is full of it.

I've seen 30-40k inferno heavy attack one shots but I haven't seen lightning heavy attacks hit that hard, and those inferno gank builds aren't even using UI/UW/ND; they were using sergeants and elegance, which are both being nerfed as well now. I do agree that these lightning heavy attack builds are currently annoying and overtuned on live atm (especially in outnumbered scenarios), but these sets are getting nerfed way too much, and they aren't going to be worth using for any weapon.

That 16.5k you see on your recap is only going to be around 5.5k next update, and that's pretty sad when you consider that's all you get when you're dedicating 2 5-piece set bonuses and an arena weapon for specifically boosting your light and heavy damage. You're also going to want to set them OB, have empower active, and then go through a 2 second channel while they also have to be in your blockade for max potential. If they're blocking, that damage becomes less than 3k, even less depending on class passives and SnB. There's a reason why you don't really see these builds 1vXing. A 50% damage nerf at most should have been sufficient IMO.

divnyi wrote: »

Arcanasx wrote: »

I've seen 30-40k inferno heavy attack one shots but I haven't seen lightning heavy attacks hit that hard

In gank?

https://youtu.be/UKObrx-4m9c

2:03

Or against good armored bruiser?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIZAOJX6NIs

8:18

Yes I meant inferno heavy attack gank builds. As I've mentioned earlier, I agree that these lightning heavy attacks are overtuned on live, but my point is that the sets they use are getting nerfed too much, and they wont be worth using for any weapon type.

In your first example there was a magsorc helping you; haunting curse blew up soon after you started your lightning heavy, followed by their force pulse spammables, and you finished that player off with a merciless resolve. If your lightning heavy attack were to do 12k damage, next update that will only be 4k.

In your second example, since the sets you're using are going to be only a third as effective for lightning staves (except maelstrom destro for some reason) as they are on live, in the amount of time you brought that players health from 100 to 0% (about 6 seconds), after the new update you might bring that player to about 65%, and your OB proc would just about run out by then. If you're also saying that you could only win that fight by taking advantage of the OB window, then how do you think your chances of winning that fight are going to be with that build next update when you're only going to be dealing about one third of the damage?

Again, these lightning heavy attack builds should be toned down, but these set changes/nerfs are too harsh. This change also nerfs the bonus for dual wield by quite a bit, and I really don't think that combination is OP when you consider the other 5pc set bonuses that it currently has to compete with in a PvP context.

Also, here's a question for you; will you still be using these sets after they get nerfed next update?

remosito wrote: »

anybody know any endpoints at microsoft or organisations that could be contacted in view of this dastardly attack on the ability of disabled and injured people to play halfway decently?

I doubt ZOS has any such thing..but maybe Microsoft. I doubt they'll be happy about their new purchase making them look like villains..

Come on, that's a bit much. I know it's an unpopular change and makes this playstyle less effective, but it's still perfectly viable for 99% of the game's content. They'd have to be reducing the playstyle to a 10-20k parse for it to not even be considered "halfway decent". A 40k+ parse is still easily achievable, and that's certainly "halfway decent" as a worst case scenario. I wish all the DPS I healed in PUGs were capable of 40k+

I know a lot of you are mad about this. I'm sad too. But let's not pretend to be concerned about less abled players' ability to engage with the game here when that's clearly not the issue.

Darkstorne wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

anybody know any endpoints at microsoft or organisations that could be contacted in view of this dastardly attack on the ability of disabled and injured people to play halfway decently?

I doubt ZOS has any such thing..but maybe Microsoft. I doubt they'll be happy about their new purchase making them look like villains..

Come on, that's a bit much. I know it's an unpopular change and makes this playstyle less effective, but it's still perfectly viable for 99% of the game's content. They'd have to be reducing the playstyle to a 10-20k parse for it to not even be considered "halfway decent". A 40k+ parse is still easily achievable, and that's certainly "halfway decent" as a worst case scenario. I wish all the DPS I healed in PUGs were capable of 40k+

I know a lot of you are mad about this. I'm sad too. But let's not pretend to be concerned about less abled players' ability to engage with the game here when that's clearly not the issue.

halfway decent to me means a way into trials...40k does not...

Darkstorne wrote: »

Then thanks for further proving my point! This isn't preventing less abled players and HA builds from competing at all. It's people who love using this well-known broken shock staff build to exploit a bug, and trying to make their anger at a fix more "honorable" by pretending they're upset on behalf of less abled players.

I am one of these less abled players. I'm not pretending to be upset.

I'll never master light attack weaving and I often fumble over skills and press the wrong one. UI+UU+Maelstrom Lighting plus a simple rotation of crit surge, hurrican, wall of elements and heavy attacks gets me a long way. It's forgiving if I hit the wrong key every now and then. It lets me use the same hand to move my char out of red. It's not strong enough to run veteran content but I can complete any dungeon on normal.

remosito wrote: »

Darkstorne wrote: »

Succuby wrote: »

Darkstorne wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

anybody know any endpoints at microsoft or organisations that could be contacted in view of this dastardly attack on the ability of disabled and injured people to play halfway decently?

I doubt ZOS has any such thing..but maybe Microsoft. I doubt they'll be happy about their new purchase making them look like villains..

Come on, that's a bit much. I know it's an unpopular change and makes this playstyle less effective, but it's still perfectly viable for 99% of the game's content. They'd have to be reducing the playstyle to a 10-20k parse for it to not even be considered "halfway decent". A 40k+ parse is still easily achievable, and that's certainly "halfway decent" as a worst case scenario. I wish all the DPS I healed in PUGs were capable of 40k+

I know a lot of you are mad about this. I'm sad too. But let's not pretend to be concerned about less abled players' ability to engage with the game here when that's clearly not the issue.

You just take another sets and gain the same damage in relequin and aether, this sets was just destroyed for lightning stuff. But on Fire staff - HA on 140k + ...

So i think you just do not understand what you are talking about.

It's people who love using this well-known broken shock staff build to exploit a bug, and trying to make their anger at a fix more "honorable" by pretending they're upset on behalf of less abled players.

@Darkstorne

show us a parse with those sets that qualifies as broken. Say, in a world where 120k is possible and 100k with just skills, no HA or LA. 110k sounds fair for broken???

"Broken" meaning it's a well-known bug with how lightning staffs function with these sets. That's something ZOS themselves clarified in the latest patch notes. The sets weren't designed to be 4x more effective when used with lightning staves over all the other weapons (and 2x more effective with dual wield). This change allows the sets to function as intended with all weapons. You can still use them to pump out excellent DPS with simple HA playstyles by all standards except hard mode trials. And you've already insisted there are other sets out there that can parse over 100k with HA builds without exploiting a bug, so there really shouldn't be an issue here.

This is quite clearly fixing the sets to work as intended with all weapons, and not a nerf specifically targeting less abled players to make their experience worse as so many people in here are embarrassingly pretending.

rauyran wrote: »

Darkstorne wrote: »

Then thanks for further proving my point! This isn't preventing less abled players and HA builds from competing at all. It's people who love using this well-known broken shock staff build to exploit a bug, and trying to make their anger at a fix more "honorable" by pretending they're upset on behalf of less abled players.

I am one of these less abled players. I'm not pretending to be upset.

I'll never master light attack weaving and I often fumble over skills and press the wrong one. UI+UU+Maelstrom Lighting plus a simple rotation of crit surge, hurrican, wall of elements and heavy attacks gets me a long way. It's forgiving if I hit the wrong key every now and then. It lets me use the same hand to move my char out of red. It's not strong enough to run veteran content but I can complete any dungeon on normal.

And you'll still have zero issues with normal dungeons

Darkstorne wrote: »

"Broken" meaning it's a well-known bug with how lightning staffs function with these sets. That's something ZOS themselves clarified in the latest patch notes. The sets weren't designed to be 4x more effective when used with lightning staves over all the other weapons (and 2x more effective with dual wield). This change allows the sets to function as intended with all weapons. You can still use them to pump out excellent DPS with simple HA playstyles by all standards except hard mode trials. And you've already insisted there are other sets out there that can parse over 100k with HA builds without exploiting a bug, so there really shouldn't be an issue here.

This is quite clearly fixing the sets to work as intended with all weapons, and not a nerf specifically targeting less abled players to make their experience worse as so many people in here are embarrassingly pretending.

So it working as it is is actually not a problem where it outperforms anything at all. Be that LA weaves, just skills, bash builds, anything....

but you still want it to be nerfed just because it "rubs you the wrong way". And take away one build that worked better for some disadvantaged players?

Can YOU still do decent dps with the sets post nerf. That doesn't mean ppl with disabilities/injuries can. It's not like they cant LA weave for *** but can do perfect HA rotations you know....

It cuts dps by a good third from tests it seems. For NO reason that matters whatsoever.

As for overperforming on lightning(/resto) compared to other weapons. Well the sets certainly did. But they were utter shite on any other weapon. Now they are even shiiter on those and pretty bad on lightning staff.

How does that make any sense? How is THAT worth hosing people who needed that sets most due to injuries/disabiliites.

It's just a disgusting mvoe by ZOS tbh...

Camelord wrote: »

What about reverting and adding this :

that's kinda the proposal supported by most....
(first proposed on first or second page of this discussion)

remosito wrote: »

Darkstorne wrote: »

"Broken" meaning it's a well-known bug with how lightning staffs function with these sets. That's something ZOS themselves clarified in the latest patch notes. The sets weren't designed to be 4x more effective when used with lightning staves over all the other weapons (and 2x more effective with dual wield). This change allows the sets to function as intended with all weapons. You can still use them to pump out excellent DPS with simple HA playstyles by all standards except hard mode trials. And you've already insisted there are other sets out there that can parse over 100k with HA builds without exploiting a bug, so there really shouldn't be an issue here.

This is quite clearly fixing the sets to work as intended with all weapons, and not a nerf specifically targeting less abled players to make their experience worse as so many people in here are embarrassingly pretending.

So it working as it is is actually not a problem where it outperforms anything at all. Be that LA weaves, just skills, bash builds, anything....

but you still want it to be nerfed just because it "rubs you the wrong way". And take away one build that worked better for some disadvantaged players?

Can YOU still do decent dps with the sets post nerf. That doesn't mean ppl with disabilities/injuries can. It's not like they cant LA weave for *** but can do perfect HA rotations you know....

It cuts dps by a good third from tests it seems. For NO reason that matters whatsoever.

As for overperforming on lightning(/resto) compared to other weapons. Well the sets certainly did. But they were utter shite on any other weapon. Now they are even shiiter on those and pretty bad on lightning staff.

How does that make any sense? How is THAT worth hosing people who needed that sets most due to injuries/disabiliites.

It's just a disgusting mvoe by ZOS tbh...

Not sure where you got the bolded from, or why you put quote marks in as though I said that. I'm merely pointing out that this clearly isn't how the sets were designed to be used. ZOS themselves have now said the same. They've fixed the sets to work the same across all weapons. That's the reason behind the change. Pretending ZOS are making this change specifically to harm less abled players is disingenuous. Just as pretending I'm saying I want this change because it "rubs me the wrong way" is disingenuous. You can check my post history in this thread and see I'm bummed about the change too. I'm just not happy seeing other players try to claim this change is making the game unplayable for less abled players. It isn't. It's clearly just fixing a game mechanic issue.

Darkstorne wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

Darkstorne wrote: »

"Broken" meaning it's a well-known bug with how lightning staffs function with these sets. That's something ZOS themselves clarified in the latest patch notes. The sets weren't designed to be 4x more effective when used with lightning staves over all the other weapons (and 2x more effective with dual wield). This change allows the sets to function as intended with all weapons. You can still use them to pump out excellent DPS with simple HA playstyles by all standards except hard mode trials. And you've already insisted there are other sets out there that can parse over 100k with HA builds without exploiting a bug, so there really shouldn't be an issue here.

This is quite clearly fixing the sets to work as intended with all weapons, and not a nerf specifically targeting less abled players to make their experience worse as so many people in here are embarrassingly pretending.

So it working as it is is actually not a problem where it outperforms anything at all. Be that LA weaves, just skills, bash builds, anything....

but you still want it to be nerfed just because it "rubs you the wrong way". And take away one build that worked better for some disadvantaged players?

Can YOU still do decent dps with the sets post nerf. That doesn't mean ppl with disabilities/injuries can. It's not like they cant LA weave for *** but can do perfect HA rotations you know....

It cuts dps by a good third from tests it seems. For NO reason that matters whatsoever.

As for overperforming on lightning(/resto) compared to other weapons. Well the sets certainly did. But they were utter shite on any other weapon. Now they are even shiiter on those and pretty bad on lightning staff.

How does that make any sense? How is THAT worth hosing people who needed that sets most due to injuries/disabiliites.

It's just a disgusting mvoe by ZOS tbh...

Not sure where you got the bolded from, or why you put quote marks in as though I said that. I'm merely pointing out that this clearly isn't how the sets were designed to be used. ZOS themselves have now said the same. They've fixed the sets to work the same across all weapons. That's the reason behind the change. Pretending ZOS are making this change specifically to harm less abled players is disingenuous. Just as pretending I'm saying I want this change because it "rubs me the wrong way" is disingenuous. You can check my post history in this thread and see I'm bummed about the change too. I'm just not happy seeing other players try to claim this change is making the game unplayable for less abled players. It isn't. It's clearly just fixing a game mechanic issue.

where am I saying hosing disabled/injured players is the reason for the change???? It's just the result/side effect.

there is no game mechanic issue! The set is not overperforming on any weapon as is compared to other playstyles.

They were utterly useless on any other weapon before. Now it will be useless for ALL weapons.

Special_XYZ wrote: »

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

Solo build on a 6 mil dummy, two mines.

UU/UI/Pale Order/Maelstrom Lightning/Slimecraw:



Julianos/Mother's Sorrow/Pale Order/Maelstrom Lightning/Slimecraw:



I'm getting about as much DPS on a generic beginners setup not focused on heavy attacks.

Meanwhile,

Aether/Tzogvin/Pale Order/Maelstrom Lightning/Slimecraw:



Relequen/Storm Cursed/Pale Order/Maelstrom Lightning/Slimecraw:



I found numerous combinations in the 49-51k range and one 55k+. I support the scaling change but the sets are way undertuned when I can just run Julianos/MS or probably almost anything else for the same DPS as UU/UI. And I'm still 10k short of my highest setup and 5k short of basically anything else.

Do you mind sharing your rotation?

Pre-buff with Boundless Storm, apply Elemental Susceptibility.

Off-Balance: Wall of Elements->LA->Scalding Rune/Swap->(HA->Mines)x3/Swap
Off-Balance Cooldown: LA->Wall of Elements->LA->Scalding Rune/Swap->HA->Mines->(LA->Mines)x4/Swap

Re-cast Susceptibility or Boundless Storm between WoE and Rune if either are about to run out. Add an extra LA->Mines to cooldown rotation if you didn't need to recast Boundless or Susceptibility.

The rune/swap/HA cancel might be a bit tricky if you aren't used to it or have physical issues. You can just do rune/swap/la/mines if it's easier, though you'll lose a bit of sustain and dps.

Alternatively, you can just repeat the Off-Balance rotation. It's very easy and only about a 5k DPS loss.