Unweaver/Infiltrator/Noble duelist changes. (please revert or change somehow)

Faulgor

So, will HA builds just switch to Storm Master now?
Or is it just a matter of time before they nerf that one, too? It can't really be pre-buffed like Noble and the Undaunted ones, so maybe not.

Mayrael

Just because we see such a violent reaction of so many players it means that those sets were OP - every time something that is OP gets nerfed we can see the same reaction. With every patch the vast majority of players are forced to update their builds, it's time for HA builds.

It's a good change, it removes the problem of unbalanced builds in PvP but it's not like those who can't accept this change claim - you will still be able to use builds based on HA - overland, public dungs, delves, normal dungeons, normal trials and even most of vet dungs don't require high end DPS - no one is taking away your ability to play, you just have to adapt.

NerfSeige

Heya zos, I hate heavy attack builds on pvp but please don’t change these sets, lots of disabled/mechanically challenged persons are relying on HA builds to get them through content so please think about this again.

Mayrael

NerfSeige wrote: »

Heya zos, I hate heavy attack builds on pvp but please don’t change these sets, lots of disabled/mechanically challenged persons are relying on HA builds to get them through content so please think about this again.

No one is depriving these people of HA builds, they still work and will continue to work. But current HA builds deprive a lot more players from competing.

remosito

Mayrael wrote: »

NerfSeige wrote: »

Heya zos, I hate heavy attack builds on pvp but please don’t change these sets, lots of disabled/mechanically challenged persons are relying on HA builds to get them through content so please think about this again.

No one is depriving these people of HA builds, they still work and will continue to work. But current HA builds deprive a lot more players from competing.

who exactly is being deprived from competing right now?

Selot

[snip] HA builds must be nerfed.

[edited for baiting]

Succuby

1 button LA was so dissapointed and cry about nerfs to much and now happy about changes.

But reality is that sets like Storm master, or as example Relequin will be both thesame PVE and PVP like undaunted infiltrator is now.

Current changes are just to show disrespect to people who use that sets and play HA nothing more.

It is not about some real PVP or PVE changes.

As example torug pact/relequin/knight slayer/any dot give sets will work same.

Strike was on HA sets to show disrespect to players who use it and that only monkey LA game play is possible in this game.

Do not like - do not play. It is only about - nothing more/nothing less.

jwarren68

Change was done due to reasonable complaints about DK heavy attack builds in PVP. But now my magsorc build is ruined for PVE, and on top of that, they're buffing DKs (already a strong class) even more.

Succuby

jwarren68 wrote: »

Change was done due to reasonable complaints about DK heavy attack builds in PVP. But now my magsorc build is ruined for PVE, and on top of that, they're buffing DKs (already a strong class) even more.

As example sets like storm master was not changed.

Relequin gives even more solo dps in pve and pvp in same rotation.

Nerf was focused only on "classic HA sets".

It shows a lot.

https://youtu.be/JU8RQpVh5Ss

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DgAyU5Eyz-I

It is nothing more than pure disrespect to HA players.

jwarren68

Mayrael wrote: »

Just because we see such a violent reaction of so many players it means that those sets were OP - every time something that is OP gets nerfed we can see the same reaction. With every patch the vast majority of players are forced to update their builds, it's time for HA builds.

It's a good change, it removes the problem of unbalanced builds in PvP but it's not like those who can't accept this change claim - you will still be able to use builds based on HA - overland, public dungs, delves, normal dungeons, normal trials and even most of vet dungs don't require high end DPS - no one is taking away your ability to play, you just have to adapt.

They were OP in PVP, yes, but not because of the sets. ONLY DK HA PVP builds were OP. Because of the way Empower interacts with these sets. The violent reaction is because this change penalizes everyone who uses these sets, regardless whether they're using DK in PVP or not. It's a lazy "fix".

remosito

Selot wrote: »

[snip] HA builds must be nerfed.

these sets didnt even perform well when just using HA. Rotation was needed as well.

[edited to remove quote]

rauyran

Please revert this and find another way to balance them in PVP. Perhaps reduce the additional damage under Battle Spirit

PVE lightning heavy attack builds are essential for people with low dexterity or coordination issues. These sets give these people a way of accessing some of the harder content without being over powerful.

NerfSeige

Selot wrote: »

[snip] HA builds must be nerfed.

Bro, there’s a bunch of people that are disabled/mechanically challenged and cannot really play like us. I’m all for the nerf if it’s pvp only but when you do this to pve then those people, who are already gated and cannot play on the highest level of content, won’t even be viable for mid-level things.

[edited to remove quote]

Faulgor

People keep saying these sets were OP in PvP, yet I can count the times I have been hit by a heavy attack in Cyrodiil past month on one hand. And they don't call me Two-Finger-Faulgor for nothing.

There are much more oppressive sets and builds around that would warrant a look first.

Succuby

The same people who say it is op can not kill with 20 of them 1 tank in the near topics of live server.

So it depends from those who tell it, it is not always a some thing true.

People are just happy to nerf anything they do not use and that is good, that is all it is about.

divnyi

jwarren68 wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Just because we see such a violent reaction of so many players it means that those sets were OP - every time something that is OP gets nerfed we can see the same reaction. With every patch the vast majority of players are forced to update their builds, it's time for HA builds.

It's a good change, it removes the problem of unbalanced builds in PvP but it's not like those who can't accept this change claim - you will still be able to use builds based on HA - overland, public dungs, delves, normal dungeons, normal trials and even most of vet dungs don't require high end DPS - no one is taking away your ability to play, you just have to adapt.

They were OP in PVP, yes, but not because of the sets. ONLY DK HA PVP builds were OP.

Not true. I had HA sorc and HA NB, both broken.
Empower +40%
Off-Balance +50%

So when we compare DK to nonDK, it's not flat +50% difference. It's 240% / 190% = +26% difference.
And non-DKs have better skills that are relevant for this sort of build.

divnyi

Mayrael wrote: »

It's a good change, it removes the problem of unbalanced builds in PvP but it's not like those who can't accept this change claim - you will still be able to use builds based on HA - overland, public dungs, delves, normal dungeons, normal trials and even most of vet dungs don't require high end DPS - no one is taking away your ability to play, you just have to adapt.

It's bad change, because it's overnerfed.
Same as dots in the past.
Same as health recovery.

There is nothing good in nerfing sets into unusable state.
Good change increases amount of options, this one decreases them.

They do changes that are technically correct, but they don't fine-tune.
I think this change can be good if they flat out increase numbers, like, by +70%.

katorga

I dunno. I have not seen a lightning heavy attack this patch from anything other than a DK that actually stood out enough on my death recap to even attract attention. Just block. Easy on lightning because it is so telegraphed, a beam and two light attack ticks gives plenty of warning. I just don't get the lightning heavy attack OP meme.

Dusted off my sets and played it for a while on sorc/necro and the damage just wasn't there for me, but at least it was fairly lag proof.

But, in the last 2-3 weeks I have been repeatedly one shot by firestaff heavy attacks in the 28-32K range, and regularly see 20K fire heavies. Fire heavies and Vicious Death are the most common huge tooltips on my recaps. Anything 18K and up makes you stand up and take notice.

unholy_nox

Rip , my PVE HA MagDK.

Grandchamp1989

Hmmmm I think this change may actually lower the floor even further in PvE as many mid tier players seem to use heavy attack builds, some with disabilities.
I'm not sure I'm a fan of this change honestly.

Maybe there's other ways to balance PvP so it doesn't affect PvE...

xDeusEJRx

Why can't zos just add the line "Increases heavy attack damage done by 1080 to non-players" ?? They literally did the same to Inner rage when they added the 10% increased damage modifier, I don't get why they don't update these sets this way

Dalsinthus

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Hmmmm I think this change may actually lower the floor even further in PvE as many mid tier players seem to use heavy attack builds, some with disabilities.
I'm not sure I'm a fan of this change honestly.

Maybe there's other ways to balance PvP so it doesn't affect PvE...

I have a heavy attack pve sorc and on live I'm having a really hard time getting it to pull numbers that are in any way viable. My many light attack builds are just flat out better. The sorc is such a fun setup, I just which I didn't feel embarrassed bringing it into a group.

Ironically I just got the lightning staff drop for UI yesterday evening, on the day that the nerf was announced

luchtt

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Why can't zos just add the line "Increases heavy attack damage done by 1080 to non-players" ?? They literally did the same to Inner rage when they added the 10% increased damage modifier, I don't get why they don't update these sets this way

This is actually genius, idk how I didn't think of this but this would fix everything I think. In fact, I'm even considering making a new post to highlight this idea. Simply changing these sets from:

(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(4 items) Adds 657 Critical Chance
(5 items) When you use an ability that costs Stamina while in combat, you increase the damage of your Light and Heavy Attacks by 1685 for 10 seconds.

to:

(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(4 items) Adds 657 Critical Chance
(5 items) When you use an ability that costs Stamina while in combat, you increase the damage of your Light and Heavy Attacks by 1685 against non-player enemies for 10 seconds.

I don't think anyone is complaining about these sets in pve, except maybe some toxic casuals, the only real problem is these massive off balance LHA ticks, that go up to like 40k damage in pvp. it's frustrating to play against I understand, and if they really do deserve a nerf I think this change would be perfect for it. The only problem would be that these sets no longer are availible for pvp use other than the 4 piece bonuses, but I think the question of whether this build should be nerfed like this suggestion or the current PTS way is pretty clear.

xylena_lazarow

They could've done this without niche PvE builds as collateral damage, I hope they revert the change in PvE.

DrSmyth3

Guys make sure to comment stuff in the official feedback threads so that it gets noticed

DrSmyth3

luchtt wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Why can't zos just add the line "Increases heavy attack damage done by 1080 to non-players" ?? They literally did the same to Inner rage when they added the 10% increased damage modifier, I don't get why they don't update these sets this way

This is actually genius, idk how I didn't think of this but this would fix everything I think. In fact, I'm even considering making a new post to highlight this idea. Simply changing these sets from:

(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(4 items) Adds 657 Critical Chance
(5 items) When you use an ability that costs Stamina while in combat, you increase the damage of your Light and Heavy Attacks by 1685 for 10 seconds.

to:

(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(4 items) Adds 657 Critical Chance
(5 items) When you use an ability that costs Stamina while in combat, you increase the damage of your Light and Heavy Attacks by 1685 against non-player enemies for 10 seconds.

I don't think anyone is complaining about these sets in pve, except maybe some toxic casuals, the only real problem is these massive off balance LHA ticks, that go up to like 40k damage in pvp. it's frustrating to play against I understand, and if they really do deserve a nerf I think this change would be perfect for it. The only problem would be that these sets no longer are availible for pvp use other than the 4 piece bonuses, but I think the question of whether this build should be nerfed like this suggestion or the current PTS way is pretty clear.

Post this in the official combat and classes feedback thread, this needs to be seen by the devs

MashmalloMan

Succuby wrote: »

jwarren68 wrote: »

Change was done due to reasonable complaints about DK heavy attack builds in PVP. But now my magsorc build is ruined for PVE, and on top of that, they're buffing DKs (already a strong class) even more.

Relequin gives even more solo dps in pve and pvp in same rotation.

Huh? I don't think I've ever seen a person get a kill who was using relequen in pvp. Those people always stand out as the.. "HEY, come kill me because I just came into pvp using a pve set. I'm an easy target "

divnyi wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

It's a good change, it removes the problem of unbalanced builds in PvP but it's not like those who can't accept this change claim - you will still be able to use builds based on HA - overland, public dungs, delves, normal dungeons, normal trials and even most of vet dungs don't require high end DPS - no one is taking away your ability to play, you just have to adapt.

It's bad change, because it's overnerfed.
Same as dots in the past.
Same as health recovery.

There is nothing good in nerfing sets into unusable state.
Good change increases amount of options, this one decreases them.

They do changes that are technically correct, but they don't fine-tune.
I think this change can be good if they flat out increase numbers, like, by +70%.

Very well said, it was definitely too strong in pvp, but it's a real shame this effects people in pve with lower mobility function.

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Why can't zos just add the line "Increases heavy attack damage done by 1080 to non-players" ?? They literally did the same to Inner rage when they added the 10% increased damage modifier, I don't get why they don't update these sets this way

Brilliant!

axi

remosito wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

NerfSeige wrote: »

Heya zos, I hate heavy attack builds on pvp but please don’t change these sets, lots of disabled/mechanically challenged persons are relying on HA builds to get them through content so please think about this again.

No one is depriving these people of HA builds, they still work and will continue to work. But current HA builds deprive a lot more players from competing.

who exactly is being deprived from competing right now?

Everyone who wants to have some last bits of fun in PvP especially BGs. These sets completly ruined the fun and competitivness of BGs.

axi

jwarren68 wrote: »

Change was done due to reasonable complaints about DK heavy attack builds in PVP. But now my magsorc build is ruined for PVE, and on top of that, they're buffing DKs (already a strong class) even more.

I think You should reconsider those statements.

Hotdog_23

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Why can't zos just add the line "Increases heavy attack damage done by 1080 to non-players" ?? They literally did the same to Inner rage when they added the 10% increased damage modifier, I don't get why they don't update these sets this way

Have an awesome. Simple elegant solution.

Stay safe