Make more overland content like Shada's Tear (in other zone than Craglorn) !

corrosivechains · September 2021

Yes, I would love to have this !

Amottica wrote: »

Fhritz wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Not once have I ever heard anyone in game complain that overland is too easy, or say they wish it was more challenging. If it were really a big problem for most players I think it would come up in zone or guild chat, or among friends.

Making overland more difficult will negatively affect a lot of players, especially those who are new to the game, and those who are looking for a relaxing experience.

[snip] Look :

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/562718/overland-is-too-easy
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/86adzz/overland_and_quest_are_way_too_easy_will_they/
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/419145/my-level-8-friend-says-eso-is-too-easy
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/9wia26/does_anyone_else_feel_overland_really_needs_a/
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/572879/overland-content-is-so-easy-i-lose-interest
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/446855/idea-to-improve-overland-content-its-too-easy-stop-the-bleeding
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/569842/normal-and-veteran-overland/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/476326/seriously-this-game-is-too-easy-and-the-overworld-needs-to-be-buffed-heavily

And the list goes on...

@SilverBride did say in-game so threads complaining about this in the forums are not relative to their comment. Obviously, they have seen some people complain about it in the forums as this thread is one of them.

Regardless, I would suggest Zenimasx has a good handle on the business side of things and how they design the difficulty is part of that. Heck, I have found in MMORPGs overland is normally not difficult so there seems to be a time-tested reason why it is this way and the challenging content lies in dungeon and raid types of instances.

They also used the following post as indicative of the "majority" supporting their stance on the issue:

SilverBride wrote: »

corrosivechains wrote: »

That's fine if they do so with the understanding that it's still an MMORPG and they wont be able to solo every single thing in the game.

We already have plenty of group content with dungeons, trials and arenas, and also World Bosses and Harrowstorms.

"corrosivechains wrote: »

the majority of people who quit ESO before One Tamriel didn't do so because one zone in the entire game was group focused.

This thread I started back in September 2014 shows otherwise. And you have to consider that back then you went through zones in a linear manner. By the time you reached Craglorn it was the ONLY option to continue leveling.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/132207/please-give-us-a-solo-questing-for-vet-levels-11-14

So the post you are quoting has fairly adhered to the metrics of the discussion. As to not hearing people talking about it in game, it's safe to assume those who do not wish for more challenging content are also associating with those with similar viewpoints, so of course it's not something they'll hear often in game. My experience has been the opposite, and often hear people, especially in Glenumbra zone chat, bring it up near daily. But I also associate more with those who share similar views, as that is the nature of confirmation bias.

The threads @Fhritz linked, as well as the poll in this very thread, and our experiences in game are very much indicative that a healthy portion of the playerbase which remains playing feels similarly. Since the game clocks in at just under 200k active users out of over 19 million copies sold (https://mmo-population.com/r/elderscrollsonline/stats) it'd be interesting to see an official poll mailed out to each account to get a much fairer assessment, even when considering that a percentage of those are alt accounts(to say nothing of accounts made purely for unscrupulous means such as gold farming and selling). Interestingly, as those who are against a bump in difficulty in the base game zones have been quick to point out, many of the new zones, while not of the level of Craglorn's current state, have seen a bit of an increase in overland difficulty and an even bigger bump in content such as delves, public dungeons, and group content. As you yourself have said, ZoS probably has an idea where a balance will lay should they ever do a pass of the older stuff. It's just a matter of priority.

SilverBride · September 2021

No, ..(+reasons)

corrosivechains wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

@SilverBride did say in-game so threads complaining about this in the forums are not relative to their comment.

They also used the following post as indicative of the "majority" supporting their stance on the issue:

The thread I linked was to show that players were very unhappy with Craglorn and forced grouping. I never said that is why the majority left, because no one has the numbers for this, but I know it is why I and multiple others left.

corrosivechains wrote: »

As to not hearing people talking about it in game, it's safe to assume those who do not wish for more challenging content are also associating with those with similar viewpoints, so of course it's not something they'll hear often in game. My experience has been the opposite, and often hear people, especially in Glenumbra zone chat, bring it up near daily. But I also associate more with those who share similar views, as that is the nature of confirmation bias.

There are 500 players in the guild I am in. They are obviously not all players I have things in common with because I don't know most of them personally, so I don't only associate with players who share my same viewpoint. There are often groups forming in this guild for veteran dungeons and there are scheduled veteran trials, so there are many end game players present. Yet not a single one has ever once complained that overland is too easy.

I have also never heard this in zone chat either, and I tend to hop around all the zones frequently while playing.

corrosivechains wrote: »

The threads @Fhritz linked, as well as the poll in this very thread, and our experiences in game are very much indicative that a healthy portion of the playerbase which remains playing feels similarly.

It is a small percentage of the player population that ever reads the forums, let alone posts on them, and an even smaller number of those who do post who are asking for more challenging overland. The true measure of what players want is what is happening in game.

Elvenheart · September 2021

Yes, I would love to have this !

markulrich1966 wrote: »

how do you actually solo Shada?
I get her down to maybe 50% quickly, but then the 4 archmages spawn and 1-shot me.

How it works for me is that as soon as she speaks the line that indicates the four archmages are about to appear on the platforms, I immediately go to one of the platforms and kill one of the mages as fast as I can. I keep a shield up, streak to another platform and try to kill that one too. If I’m lucky I only get hit by two bolts from the archmages instead of four (keeping my shield up and heal ready when they hit) then keep killing the archmages until they’re all dead. It seems like she summons the archmages at least two times before she’s finally dead. And it seems like I read that the trick is not to damage Shada too quickly or too much can happen at once - damage her slowly, take care of the ones that are shielding her, then concentrate on living though the archmage’s phase and being shielded when their bolts hit, etc.

Amottica · September 2021

corrosivechains wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Fhritz wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Not once have I ever heard anyone in game complain that overland is too easy, or say they wish it was more challenging. If it were really a big problem for most players I think it would come up in zone or guild chat, or among friends.

Making overland more difficult will negatively affect a lot of players, especially those who are new to the game, and those who are looking for a relaxing experience.

[snip] Look :

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/562718/overland-is-too-easy
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/86adzz/overland_and_quest_are_way_too_easy_will_they/
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/419145/my-level-8-friend-says-eso-is-too-easy
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/9wia26/does_anyone_else_feel_overland_really_needs_a/
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/572879/overland-content-is-so-easy-i-lose-interest
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/446855/idea-to-improve-overland-content-its-too-easy-stop-the-bleeding
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/569842/normal-and-veteran-overland/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/476326/seriously-this-game-is-too-easy-and-the-overworld-needs-to-be-buffed-heavily

And the list goes on...

@SilverBride did say in-game so threads complaining about this in the forums are not relative to their comment. Obviously, they have seen some people complain about it in the forums as this thread is one of them.

Regardless, I would suggest Zenimasx has a good handle on the business side of things and how they design the difficulty is part of that. Heck, I have found in MMORPGs overland is normally not difficult so there seems to be a time-tested reason why it is this way and the challenging content lies in dungeon and raid types of instances.

They also used the following post as indicative of the "majority" supporting their stance on the issue:

SilverBride wrote: »

corrosivechains wrote: »

That's fine if they do so with the understanding that it's still an MMORPG and they wont be able to solo every single thing in the game.

We already have plenty of group content with dungeons, trials and arenas, and also World Bosses and Harrowstorms.

"corrosivechains wrote: »

the majority of people who quit ESO before One Tamriel didn't do so because one zone in the entire game was group focused.

This thread I started back in September 2014 shows otherwise. And you have to consider that back then you went through zones in a linear manner. By the time you reached Craglorn it was the ONLY option to continue leveling.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/132207/please-give-us-a-solo-questing-for-vet-levels-11-14

So the post you are quoting has fairly adhered to the metrics of the discussion. As to not hearing people talking about it in game, it's safe to assume those who do not wish for more challenging content are also associating with those with similar viewpoints, so of course it's not something they'll hear often in game. My experience has been the opposite, and often hear people, especially in Glenumbra zone chat, bring it up near daily. But I also associate more with those who share similar views, as that is the nature of confirmation bias.

The threads @Fhritz linked, as well as the poll in this very thread, and our experiences in game are very much indicative that a healthy portion of the playerbase which remains playing feels similarly. Since the game clocks in at just under 200k active users out of over 19 million copies sold (https://mmo-population.com/r/elderscrollsonline/stats) it'd be interesting to see an official poll mailed out to each account to get a much fairer assessment, even when considering that a percentage of those are alt accounts(to say nothing of accounts made purely for unscrupulous means such as gold farming and selling). Interestingly, as those who are against a bump in difficulty in the base game zones have been quick to point out, many of the new zones, while not of the level of Craglorn's current state, have seen a bit of an increase in overland difficulty and an even bigger bump in content such as delves, public dungeons, and group content. As you yourself have said, ZoS probably has an idea where a balance will lay should they ever do a pass of the older stuff. It's just a matter of priority.

And those are not the posts that you were replying to which is what I quoted and replied to. So it is not very relevant to my comments.

You mention a poll someone else linked or did. Well, forum polls do not provide worthy information. Not only are those that frequent the forum such a small percentage of the player base they are not considered representative either. The only thing that can truly be said of those that frequent the forums are they are a very vocal group.

And again, I would suggest Zenimasx has a good handle on the business side of things and how they design the difficulty is part of that. Heck, I have found in MMORPGs overland is normally not difficult so there seems to be a time-tested reason why it is this way and the challenging content lies in dungeon and raid types of instances.

Thoragaal · September 2021

Yes, I would love to have this !

I'm in a bit of a hurry, but I'll quickly just link this.
Zone of proximal development "the distance between the actual developmental level as determined by independent problem solving and the level of potential development as determined through problem solving under adult guidance or in collaboration with more capable peers”.
In this context "capable peers" would be the problems the devs throws at us.

If the challenge is too big, people give up because they deem it to difficult (like Craglorn pre 1T).
If the chellenge is too easy, people give up because they don't actually progress (like overland content is today).
Thus, this leads to the "Zone of proximal development".
If you're and individual that still find the same "challenge" in overland content, as you did several years ago, there's a big chance you're not actually progressing / you're not being challenged, because it's too easy.

SilverBride · September 2021

No, ..(+reasons)

Amottica wrote: »

...I have found in MMORPGs overland is normally not difficult so there seems to be a time-tested reason why it is this way and the challenging content lies in dungeon and raid types of instances.

This has been my experience, also. The questing zones in MMOs are not generally difficult and dungeons and raids are where end game players go for a challenge. This is a formula that has worked very well for many years with many MMOs, and I've never seen any complaints about it anywhere else.

spartaxoxo · September 2021

SilverBride wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

...I have found in MMORPGs overland is normally not difficult so there seems to be a time-tested reason why it is this way and the challenging content lies in dungeon and raid types of instances.

This has been my experience, also. The questing zones in MMOs are not generally difficult and dungeons and raids are where end game players go for a challenge. This is a formula that has worked very well for many years with many MMOs, and I've never seen any complaints about it anywhere else.

It's because the raids and stuff are so inaccesible imo. Everyone likes the idea of needing a certain skill level of player in a coordinated group to play them, but nobody talks about the negative impact of that in practice.

In other MMOs I have played with a healthier attitude towards them, they had better completion ratios. And being in those groups was about dominating leader boards and selling drops that other people couldn't reasonably farm. But they didn't require perfect gear and coordination, so a group of skilled but not elite people could smash their heads together for hours on end, fueled by red bull and grit, and get it done anyway.

That group goes basically completely unchallenged in this game, but because they value challenge they don't want to advocate for that content to be made any easier. They instead want entirely different content catered toward them like vet Overland.

I think that's where a lot of these complaints are coming from, people who are stuck at the upper mid-tier because they can't or don't want to get involved with the insane demands and scheduling of vet trials groups but have no other content to turn to instead.

I think it's a mistake to design the content so you need particular builds (within reason) and that level of coordination. That should be reserved for leader boarding and achievements. But you need it to even start trying.

tmbrinks · September 2021

PUGs (pick up groups) routinely clear every single trial in this game on veteran just picking up people from Craglorn (at least on PC/NA).

The barrier to entry for veteran trials is not high.

Vet Hard Mode might be a bit higher, but not all content needs to be accessible to all people as many others have said.

If there's content you can't do (due to skill, scheduling, don't like) or won't do that's okay. There's thousands and thousands of hours of other content you can do

Idinuse · September 2021

Yes, I would love to have this !

ADarklore wrote: »

There is a REASON why ZOS has said they will not make any more 'group zone' content outside of dungeons... because Craglorn was an utter failure for the majority of players. Sure 'a lot' of players want more difficulty at least according to the vocal minority on the forums, but the majority apparently do not. Craglorn was a DEAD zone before they completely revamped it to make it solo friendly... and I believe they also tamped down the difficulty of "+delves" as well to make it more solo-friendly.

It costs $$ and resources to make zones and content, content that only a minority of players will play ONCE and then probably never again. That's how Craglorn became a ghost zone, and it wasn't until the revamp that players started going there again with all their alts... because they could finally do it solo.

Well, at that time when you first entered even at Veteran Level 16, you'd die to any Wasp you met. Might indeed have had something to do with the "failure" at the time. Today the zone is soloable and rewarding if you want a little more challenge than the ordinary overland both for groups and solo players.

ixthUA · September 2021

I value my time, so i dont want to fight a mudcrab for 2 minutes. It is already known that practicing makes perfect.
I can spend a half of year training to defeat a vet dlc hardmode +3 mudcrab, to get a mudcrab slayer achievement and perfected mudcrab chitin armor, but i see no reason to do so.

mickeyx · September 2021

Not interested, but I'm not against it.

ADarklore wrote: »

There is a REASON why ZOS has said they will not make any more 'group zone' content outside of dungeons... because Craglorn was an utter failure for the majority of players. Sure 'a lot' of players want more difficulty at least according to the vocal minority on the forums, but the majority apparently do not. Craglorn was a DEAD zone before they completely revamped it to make it solo friendly... and I believe they also tamped down the difficulty of "+delves" as well to make it more solo-friendly.

It costs $$ and resources to make zones and content, content that only a minority of players will play ONCE and then probably never again. That's how Craglorn became a ghost zone, and it wasn't until the revamp that players started going there again with all their alts... because they could finally do it solo.

And it will be a dead zone again after the event. Just a week before the event started i would stand in there for hours and struggle to get any help to tackle world bosses. And then i would just give up.

SilverBride · September 2021

No, ..(+reasons)

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I think that's where a lot of these complaints are coming from, people who are stuck at the upper mid-tier because they can't or don't want to get involved with the insane demands and scheduling of vet trials groups but have no other content to turn to instead.

I understand why a player may be hesitant to pursue vet trials because trial groups can be very demanding. But that doesn't mean that overland should be turned into an alternate way to do vet content.

SeaGtGruff · September 2021

In response to https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7380222/#Comment_7380222:

Not all other TES games have a difficulty setting. Some of them do, but not all of them.

corrosivechains · September 2021

Yes, I would love to have this !

Amottica wrote: »

corrosivechains wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Fhritz wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Not once have I ever heard anyone in game complain that overland is too easy, or say they wish it was more challenging. If it were really a big problem for most players I think it would come up in zone or guild chat, or among friends.

Making overland more difficult will negatively affect a lot of players, especially those who are new to the game, and those who are looking for a relaxing experience.

[snip] Look :

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/562718/overland-is-too-easy
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/86adzz/overland_and_quest_are_way_too_easy_will_they/
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/419145/my-level-8-friend-says-eso-is-too-easy
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/9wia26/does_anyone_else_feel_overland_really_needs_a/
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/572879/overland-content-is-so-easy-i-lose-interest
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/446855/idea-to-improve-overland-content-its-too-easy-stop-the-bleeding
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/569842/normal-and-veteran-overland/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/476326/seriously-this-game-is-too-easy-and-the-overworld-needs-to-be-buffed-heavily

And the list goes on...

@SilverBride did say in-game so threads complaining about this in the forums are not relative to their comment. Obviously, they have seen some people complain about it in the forums as this thread is one of them.

Regardless, I would suggest Zenimasx has a good handle on the business side of things and how they design the difficulty is part of that. Heck, I have found in MMORPGs overland is normally not difficult so there seems to be a time-tested reason why it is this way and the challenging content lies in dungeon and raid types of instances.

They also used the following post as indicative of the "majority" supporting their stance on the issue:

SilverBride wrote: »

corrosivechains wrote: »

That's fine if they do so with the understanding that it's still an MMORPG and they wont be able to solo every single thing in the game.

We already have plenty of group content with dungeons, trials and arenas, and also World Bosses and Harrowstorms.

"corrosivechains wrote: »

the majority of people who quit ESO before One Tamriel didn't do so because one zone in the entire game was group focused.

This thread I started back in September 2014 shows otherwise. And you have to consider that back then you went through zones in a linear manner. By the time you reached Craglorn it was the ONLY option to continue leveling.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/132207/please-give-us-a-solo-questing-for-vet-levels-11-14

So the post you are quoting has fairly adhered to the metrics of the discussion. As to not hearing people talking about it in game, it's safe to assume those who do not wish for more challenging content are also associating with those with similar viewpoints, so of course it's not something they'll hear often in game. My experience has been the opposite, and often hear people, especially in Glenumbra zone chat, bring it up near daily. But I also associate more with those who share similar views, as that is the nature of confirmation bias.

The threads @Fhritz linked, as well as the poll in this very thread, and our experiences in game are very much indicative that a healthy portion of the playerbase which remains playing feels similarly. Since the game clocks in at just under 200k active users out of over 19 million copies sold (https://mmo-population.com/r/elderscrollsonline/stats) it'd be interesting to see an official poll mailed out to each account to get a much fairer assessment, even when considering that a percentage of those are alt accounts(to say nothing of accounts made purely for unscrupulous means such as gold farming and selling). Interestingly, as those who are against a bump in difficulty in the base game zones have been quick to point out, many of the new zones, while not of the level of Craglorn's current state, have seen a bit of an increase in overland difficulty and an even bigger bump in content such as delves, public dungeons, and group content. As you yourself have said, ZoS probably has an idea where a balance will lay should they ever do a pass of the older stuff. It's just a matter of priority.

And those are not the posts that you were replying to which is what I quoted and replied to. So it is not very relevant to my comments.

You mention a poll someone else linked or did. Well, forum polls do not provide worthy information. Not only are those that frequent the forum such a small percentage of the player base they are not considered representative either. The only thing that can truly be said of those that frequent the forums are they are a very vocal group.

And again, I would suggest Zenimasx has a good handle on the business side of things and how they design the difficulty is part of that. Heck, I have found in MMORPGs overland is normally not difficult so there seems to be a time-tested reason why it is this way and the challenging content lies in dungeon and raid types of instances.

Ok, I worded my response incorrectly. If one goes back and reads this thread, they will see that everything I mentioned in my post was contained in this thread, so everything which the other poster mentioned was valid and pertinent information in regards to the current discussion. One choosing to not like a point being made isn't an invalidation of a point being made, and as I said in the post I made which you quoted, I agreed that ZoS has a much better idea of the desires of the community, which would explain why there has been a gradual increase in the difficulty of new content.

And while I will admit that correlation doesn't always equal causation, one need only look at the graph I linked to see that the population does seem to increase exponentially with the release of more difficult content, while seeing larger dips when new content isn't quite as engaging.

SilverBride · September 2021

No, ..(+reasons)

Thoragaal wrote: »

If you're and individual that still find the same "challenge" in overland content, as you did several years ago, there's a big chance you're not actually progressing / you're not being challenged, because it's too easy.

I am one of those who has not progressed beyond overland because I have no need to. I don't plan to do vet content so why should I gear up and train for it?

I don't find overland challenging in general, World Bosses and Harrowstorms being the exceptions. But I'm not looking for a continuous challenge in the base game. I'm looking to relax and have fun.

If a player is looking for a challenge they should go to where the challenges are.

corrosivechains · September 2021

Yes, I would love to have this !

tmbrinks wrote: »

PUGs (pick up groups) routinely clear every single trial in this game on veteran just picking up people from Craglorn (at least on PC/NA).

The barrier to entry for veteran trials is not high.

Vet Hard Mode might be a bit higher, but not all content needs to be accessible to all people as many others have said.

If there's content you can't do (due to skill, scheduling, don't like) or won't do that's okay. There's thousands and thousands of hours of other content you can do

I think it's less about the difficulty of vet trials and more about the perceptions of the groups available to do that content with. Most of it is doable with "off-meta" builds, even hard mode for those who understand the math and mechanics, but many at that level don't take the time to assess WHY things work, because someone else has done the leg-work for them.

It's the opposite extreme to this thread, where they too don't wish to be pushed out of their comfort zone just for different reasons. One need only look at how vocal they get when the "meta" shifts in new patches.

spartaxoxo · September 2021

tmbrinks wrote: »

PUGs (pick up groups) routinely clear every single trial in this game on veteran just picking up people from Craglorn (at least on PC/NA).

The only pugs I see for Vet Trials are the Crag trials and VSS. I rarely see the others. And most of the VSS groups don't get clears, which is why people end up in trial guilds in the first place. At least on PS4.

The trials carry market is booming though, as there is more demand for clearing that content than there is groups that can reasonably do it.

Sylvermynx · September 2021

Not interested, but I'm not against it.

Thoragaal wrote: »

I'm in a bit of a hurry, but I'll quickly just link this.
Zone of proximal development "the distance between the actual developmental level as determined by independent problem solving and the level of potential development as determined through problem solving under adult guidance or in collaboration with more capable peers”.
In this context "capable peers" would be the problems the devs throws at us.

If the challenge is too big, people give up because they deem it to difficult (like Craglorn pre 1T).
If the chellenge is too easy, people give up because they don't actually progress (like overland content is today).
Thus, this leads to the "Zone of proximal development".
If you're and individual that still find the same "challenge" in overland content, as you did several years ago, there's a big chance you're not actually progressing / you're not being challenged, because it's too easy.

You're right. I'm not "progressing". I don't want overland to be a challenge in any way. I have enough challenge keeping up with html, php, and CSS changes so I can continue developing and managing my clients' websites. I play games to chill, relax, enjoy the world - not to be "challenged" or "progress".

tmbrinks · September 2021

spartaxoxo wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

PUGs (pick up groups) routinely clear every single trial in this game on veteran just picking up people from Craglorn (at least on PC/NA).

The only pugs I see for Vet Trials are the Crag trials and VSS. I rarely see the others. And most of the VSS groups don't get clears, which is why people end up in trial guilds in the first place. At least on PS4.

The trials carry market is booming though, as there is more demand for clearing that content than there is groups that can reasonably do it.

What can I say.. it's not that way on PC/NA

Regardless, OP is asking for some more content like Shada's Tear in zones.

And then people are bringing the disingenuous argument that they were asking for all overland to be buffed.

SilverBride · September 2021

No, ..(+reasons)

tmbrinks wrote: »

Regardless, OP is asking for some more content like Shada's Tear in zones.

And then people are bringing the disingenuous argument that they were asking for all overland to be buffed.

That may be all the OP is asking for now, but others have already brought increasing overland difficulty into this thread, so of course those of us who don't want that to happen are going to speak out against it.

What is the reason that this content needs to be placed in overland zones rather than a new adventure zone? That would be the least disruptive option.

tmbrinks · September 2021

SilverBride wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Regardless, OP is asking for some more content like Shada's Tear in zones.

And then people are bringing the disingenuous argument that they were asking for all overland to be buffed.

That may be all the OP is asking for now, but others have already brought increasing overland difficulty into this thread, so of course those of us who don't want that to happen are going to speak out against it.

What is the reason that this content needs to be placed in overland zones rather than a new adventure zone? That would be the least disruptive option.

a small group area added to an overland zone is less disruptive than replacing an entire update with a full-fledged adventure zone.

SilverBride · September 2021

No, ..(+reasons)

tmbrinks wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Regardless, OP is asking for some more content like Shada's Tear in zones.

And then people are bringing the disingenuous argument that they were asking for all overland to be buffed.

That may be all the OP is asking for now, but others have already brought increasing overland difficulty into this thread, so of course those of us who don't want that to happen are going to speak out against it.

What is the reason that this content needs to be placed in overland zones rather than a new adventure zone? That would be the least disruptive option.

a small group area added to an overland zone is less disruptive than replacing an entire update with a full-fledged adventure zone.

I believe it would be a lot more work to go back and alter every zone on every platform, increasing the possibility of bugs and other problems, than to just start from scratch with a new one.

Or, better yet, just add more of these areas to Craglorn.

Thoragaal · September 2021

Yes, I would love to have this !

SilverBride wrote: »

Thoragaal wrote: »

If you're and individual that still find the same "challenge" in overland content, as you did several years ago, there's a big chance you're not actually progressing / you're not being challenged, because it's too easy.

I am one of those who has not progressed beyond overland because I have no need to. I don't plan to do vet content so why should I gear up and train for it?

I don't find overland challenging in general, World Bosses and Harrowstorms being the exceptions. But I'm not looking for a continuous challenge in the base game. I'm looking to relax and have fun.

If a player is looking for a challenge they should go to where the challenges are.

And again you're missing the point and I specifically didn't aim it towards you, it's for people is general.
The gap of difficulty between what you call "where challenges are" and overland content is too big for a lot of players (they give up). And for a lot of other players the overland content becomes boring because it's too easy (they give up).
In order to become better (which you are not interested in) players needs a challenge that's not too big and not too small; that's the Zone of Proximal Development.

Callosum · September 2021

THANK YOU for letting me know about this quest. Did it yesterday and this was the best questing experienced i've had since my first couple mounth of playing around a year ago. I actually had to reconsider my skill bar and my companion came in handy! On the first boss i ended up dying because I wanted to get a close look at his face ONE SHOT haha was great! And it took me a lot tries to figure out have to beat Shada but eventually I got her.

For me this was perfect but I do understand why it is to much effort for at lot of people and of course new players have no chance. But I don't understand how people can be so much against having just ONE quest like this in other zones. I could get unlocked after you completed the zone guide so new players does not end up doing something like this to begin with and I would not mind a normal and vet version so everyone can play it.

corrosivechains · September 2021

Yes, I would love to have this !

Callosum wrote: »

THANK YOU for letting me know about this quest. Did it yesterday and this was the best questing experienced i've had since my first couple mounth of playing around a year ago. I actually had to reconsider my skill bar and my companion came in handy! On the first boss i ended up dying because I wanted to get a close look at his face ONE SHOT haha was great! And it took me a lot tries to figure out have to beat Shada but eventually I got her.

For me this was perfect but I do understand why it is to much effort for at lot of people and of course new players have no chance. But I don't understand how people can be so much against having just ONE quest like this in other zones. I could get unlocked after you completed the zone guide so new players does not end up doing something like this to begin with and I would not mind a normal and vet version so everyone can play it.

Hopefully more stumble on this thread and see what it is they're missing. One thing I've seen and learned from playing online games since the mid 90's(when they were called MUDs and were much more hardcore than anything we see today), the best stories people tend to remember are the ones in which they had a hard time against a boss or a zone, meeting new people in an effort to beat it, and finally doing so while also creating a life-long online friendship.

And I do mean life-long as I still game with friends I made while MUDing. You don't really see that in online games anymore, and it's something I really would like brought back into online games. Skinnerboxes and daily rewards was never what kept people logging in, it was the socialization and stories of triumph.

SilverBride · September 2021

No, ..(+reasons)

corrosivechains wrote: »

Hopefully more stumble on this thread and see what it is they're missing. One thing I've seen and learned from playing online games since the mid 90's(when they were called MUDs and were much more hardcore than anything we see today), the best stories people tend to remember are the ones in which they had a hard time against a boss or a zone, meeting new people in an effort to beat it, and finally doing so while also creating a life-long online friendship.

And I do mean life-long as I still game with friends I made while MUDing. You don't really see that in online games anymore, and it's something I really would like brought back into online games. Skinnerboxes and daily rewards was never what kept people logging in, it was the socialization and stories of triumph.

I made a friend in WoW right after it launched in 2004. We developed a friendship that has carried on to this day and have played a few MMOs together. He went back to WoW so we are not playing together now, but we routinely text and talk and keep in touch.

We met questing in the open world. We did not need great memorable challenges to become friends. The simple things like hanging out and talking while questing together was all it took for us to become friends.

Socialization and making friends in game is not dependent on struggling and becoming frustrated trying to kill a challenging boss.

Sylvermynx · September 2021

Not interested, but I'm not against it.

SilverBride wrote: »

corrosivechains wrote: »

Hopefully more stumble on this thread and see what it is they're missing. One thing I've seen and learned from playing online games since the mid 90's(when they were called MUDs and were much more hardcore than anything we see today), the best stories people tend to remember are the ones in which they had a hard time against a boss or a zone, meeting new people in an effort to beat it, and finally doing so while also creating a life-long online friendship.

And I do mean life-long as I still game with friends I made while MUDing. You don't really see that in online games anymore, and it's something I really would like brought back into online games. Skinnerboxes and daily rewards was never what kept people logging in, it was the socialization and stories of triumph.

I made a friend in WoW right after it launched in 2004. We developed a friendship that has carried on to this day and have played a few MMOs together. He went back to WoW so we are not playing together now, but we routinely text and talk and keep in touch.

We met questing in the open world. We did not need great memorable challenges to become friends. The simple things like hanging out and talking while questing together was all it took for us to become friends.

Socialization and making friends in game is not dependent on struggling and becoming frustrated trying to kill a challenging boss.

This. I too have contact with a lot of people I met in WoW (they're still playing it; I'm not); we didn't really quest together, we actually RP'd on a forum one of them set up on his own server (and that was a Mass Effect rp, not WoW) as well as pvp'd together on one of the pvp servers - the guy with the forum ran a pvp guild too. We're still great friends today though we live all over the world (literally) and have never met IRL.

As for MUDs, I ran my own MUSH for a while, for another group of friends who are also still around. In no game were any of us actually chattily social - we were playing the game, not using it for a chat room. Now, I run a small private forum for friends I made while we were all playing Skyrim - core group of a dozen or so, others drop by now and again.

There are as many different ways to play and enjoy games as there are people who play them, after all.

corrosivechains · September 2021

Yes, I would love to have this !

SilverBride wrote: »

corrosivechains wrote: »

Hopefully more stumble on this thread and see what it is they're missing. One thing I've seen and learned from playing online games since the mid 90's(when they were called MUDs and were much more hardcore than anything we see today), the best stories people tend to remember are the ones in which they had a hard time against a boss or a zone, meeting new people in an effort to beat it, and finally doing so while also creating a life-long online friendship.

And I do mean life-long as I still game with friends I made while MUDing. You don't really see that in online games anymore, and it's something I really would like brought back into online games. Skinnerboxes and daily rewards was never what kept people logging in, it was the socialization and stories of triumph.

I made a friend in WoW right after it launched in 2004. We developed a friendship that has carried on to this day and have played a few MMOs together. He went back to WoW so we are not playing together now, but we routinely text and talk and keep in touch.

We met questing in the open world. We did not need great memorable challenges to become friends. The simple things like hanging out and talking while questing together was all it took for us to become friends.

Socialization and making friends in game is not dependent on struggling and becoming frustrated trying to kill a challenging boss.

Seems to me your personal anecdote reinforces my assertion. WoW in 2004 when it released, while known to be easier than other offerings at the time, was still very difficult by modern standards with every zone having quests and areas fully intended for group content. As you yourself have said here, you made this friend while questing in the open world, and again since many of the quests WoW had on released required grouping it's safe to assume this pairing was done in order to get past such content.

Hogger is a prime example of this, and the memes which spawned from this encounter...in the starter zone for humans no less. Here is an interesting quote from https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Hogger :

"While Hogger's significance in-game was originally minimal, his relative difficulty at such a low level has caused him to become one of the most well-known and popular minor characters in the game."

SilverBride · September 2021

No, ..(+reasons)

corrosivechains wrote: »

Seems to me your personal anecdote reinforces my assertion. WoW in 2004 when it released, while known to be easier than other offerings at the time, was still very difficult by modern standards with every zone having quests and areas fully intended for group content. As you yourself have said here, you made this friend while questing in the open world, and again since many of the quests WoW had on released required grouping it's safe to assume this pairing was done in order to get past such content.

Hogger is a prime example of this, and the memes which spawned from this encounter...in the starter zone for humans no less.

WoW was not the least bit difficult in the questing zones and there were not group content areas in every zone. Yes Hogger was a quest objective that took a few players to beat at first, but his difficulty wasn't even close to ESO's World Bosses. And there were very few of this type of mob in the open world.

The quests in WoW are very easy and the only reason I spent time questing with my friend, which by the way I normally prefer to do solo, was because we enjoyed each other's company. We did not play together to get past group content so that assumption is not accurate.

Lady_Galadhiel · September 2021

No, ..(+reasons)

You can always make friends no matter how or when

The activity does not matter as long as you share the same interest.I have made friends while helping out someone,or doing housing,during simple normal dungeons,in trials,etc.