Amottica wrote: »

corrosivechains wrote: »

Again though, before 1T the whole map didn't scale to player level, which is something that changes the dynamic completely now. An end game group zone in a linear MMORPG isn't the same thing at all as more difficult content added to existing zones, which doesn't change any of the existing content at all, that's still not even anywhere near the levels Craglorn was actually at when released...which again we have already established most of the player base had already quit before being able voice their opinion on the matter.

Some players like playing Skyrim on Novice. Some on Legendary. But looking at things like gameplay trophies and achievements, most played on difficulties between those two extremes. Right now ESO is like 90% Novice difficulty, 5% Apprentice, 4% Master, and 1% Legendary. There should be room for some Adept and Expert level difficulty content too, and even bumping up some of that Novice level content up to Apprentice(and maybe even Adept) would probably help the issue a fair bit too.

The game's design before 1T is not very relevant as zones were only more difficult if the character was at a low level. Once fully leveled they were all easy with most of them being such a joke a character could not even generate ultimate. People say things are to easy now, most zones before 1T were 100 times easier to a level character.

I agree, which was a good part of the point I was making in my post. Before 1T the game was a linear affair, but now with scaling the past isn't representative of the present situation.

Thoragaal wrote: »

...people are now doing 40k DPS unbuffed and 100k on trial dummies.

I'm sure some players are but I'm not even close to that. I have geared all my characters in 2 sets, with the right traits and enchants and decent weapons and jewelry, and that is all I need for how I play. I don't run veteran content and I have no plan to... at least not for now. So increasing the difficulty of the base game would negatively impact my enjoyment of the game, and other casual players like me.

Thoragaal wrote: »

ZOS has moved the game towards a more casual friendly experience, and that can be Ok to a certain extent. But they've gone too far imo.

I think it's great that there is content for those of us who play to relax. I used to be a hard core raider in previous games, but it was a lot of work and I got tired of a game feeling like a second job. So now I play to relax and I'm a lot happier for it.

The way the ESO is set up now there is something for everyone, and that's how it should be. It is not reasonable to expect every single aspect of the game to be customized to one particular playstyle. Overland is not end game content, nor should it be.

Thoragaal wrote: »

And decreasing the difficulty is detrimental to all other players. Which is my point...
Probably the majority of gamers, and I would assume most people that's tried and left, doesn't enjoy how easy overland is...
Dialing back a bit (on the ease of play) I don't think would hurt the majority of players.

No one is asking for the difficulty of overland to be decreased. We just want it left as it is.

Not once have I ever heard anyone in game complain that overland is too easy, or say they wish it was more challenging. If it were really a big problem for most players I think it would come up in zone or guild chat, or among friends.

Making overland more difficult will negatively affect a lot of players, especially those who are new to the game, and those who are looking for a relaxing experience.

Thoragaal wrote: »

What I'm asking for is at least Some more overland content to have a bit more of a challenge.

And what I am asking for is to leave overland as is so those of us who spend most of our play time there can continue to relax and enjoy the the story without having to constantly be on our toes.

As I stated previously "It is not reasonable to expect every single aspect of the game to be customized to one particular playstyle." Veteran players have Veteran Dungeons, Trials, Arenas, as well as overland World Bosses and Harrowstorms, and no one is asking to take any of that away from them.

But casual players only have overland, the one part of the game where they can quest and enjoy the story in a relaxing and fun way, and now that is being jeopardized by requests to make it more challenging.

Why should one playstyle have every aspect of the game customized to their preference while leaving another playstyle out in the cold?

SilverBride wrote: »

Thoragaal wrote: »

And decreasing the difficulty is detrimental to all other players. Which is my point...
Probably the majority of gamers, and I would assume most people that's tried and left, doesn't enjoy how easy overland is...
Dialing back a bit (on the ease of play) I don't think would hurt the majority of players.

No one is asking for the difficulty of overland to be decreased. We just want it left as it is.

You're missing the point. It's already happened (i.e. nerfs to WB's and quest related bosses, all of Craglorn has been nerfed multiple times) and it keeps happening ; as the power of players increases -> the content also becomes less challenging.

SilverBride wrote: »

Not once have I ever heard anyone in game complain that overland is too easy, or say they wish it was more challenging. If it were really a big problem for most players I think it would come up in zone or guild chat, or among friends.

It's frequently brought up in various situations. This very forum has several threads talking about it.

SilverBride wrote: »

Making overland more difficult will negatively affect a lot of players, especially those who are new to the game, and those who are looking for a relaxing experience.

And a lot of players have been affected negatively by how easy the content has become. And it continues to happen, since we're here today discussing it.
And my guess is that if you were to add up everyone that's quit (maybe in part due to how easy it is) and those that currently play the game but find it too easy, along with potentially new players, you'd find that the majority of people find it too easy.
But it's a good point "those who are new to the game" a lot of those new players drop the game quickly (the average is 410cp / a few months of playtime), because it's too easy. What you're left with, in the game, are mostly people satisfied with how easy it is ; you get a completely biased sample of how 19 million (possible) players actually feel.

SilverBride wrote: »

Thoragaal wrote: »

What I'm asking for is at least Some more overland content to have a bit more of a challenge.

And what I am asking for is to leave overland as is so those of us who spend most of our play time there can continue to relax and enjoy the the story without having to constantly be on our toes.

Me and a lot of others spend most of our time in overland too (which I tried to point out earlier to you), and we find it too easy. I find overland to be mind numbingly easy. While it's "relaxing" it's also just a chore to "run to point B -> return to point A".
If ZOS were to increase the difficulty (not like Craglorn pre 1T), most players (including you), would still be able to handle combat without having to be on your toes all the time. But maybe going afk while in combat wouldn't be something to recommend.

SilverBride wrote: »

As I stated previously "It is not reasonable to expect every single aspect of the game to be customized to one particular playstyle." Veteran players have Veteran Dungeons, Trials, Arenas, as well as overland World Bosses and Harrowstorms, and no one is asking to take any of that away from them.

But casual players only have overland, the one part of the game where they can quest and enjoy the story in a relaxing and fun way, and now that is being jeopardized by requests to make it more challenging.

Why should one playstyle have every aspect of the game customized to their preference while leaving another playstyle out in the cold?

And that's exactly how I feel and have been feeling for several years. Please share some of that enjoyable experience you find in overland content! Why should I (and many others) have to accept your particular playstyle?
I can't pvp, due to the poor performance and the complete lack of progression.
The trials are lacking enough incentive for me to bother with.
Dungeons are rarely "good enough" incentive, because it produces almost the same outcome no matter what gear it has (I've been wearing almost the same gear setup for PvE since the 2015).
What I'm left, as a casual solo player, are 2 Arenas. I can only do them so many times before it gets really depressing and too repetitive ; It would be the equivalent of me suggesting that you go grind mudcrabs to level up.
Again, please share some of that enjoyable experience you get from overland content. Not all overland content has to be customized to one particular playstyle.

how do you actually solo Shada?
I get her down to maybe 50% quickly, but then the 4 archmages spawn and 1-shot me.

SilverBride wrote: »

Thoragaal wrote: »

...people are now doing 40k DPS unbuffed and 100k on trial dummies.

I'm sure some players are but I'm not even close to that. I have geared all my characters in 2 sets, with the right traits and enchants and decent weapons and jewelry, and that is all I need for how I play. I don't run veteran content and I have no plan to... at least not for now. So increasing the difficulty of the base game would negatively impact my enjoyment of the game, and other casual players like me.

Thoragaal wrote: »

ZOS has moved the game towards a more casual friendly experience, and that can be Ok to a certain extent. But they've gone too far imo.

I think it's great that there is content for those of us who play to relax. I used to be a hard core raider in previous games, but it was a lot of work and I got tired of a game feeling like a second job. So now I play to relax and I'm a lot happier for it.

The way the ESO is set up now there is something for everyone, and that's how it should be. It is not reasonable to expect every single aspect of the game to be customized to one particular playstyle. Overland is not end game content, nor should it be.

I can understand that slippery slope argument and the use of hypothetical propositions no one is actually making to argue you point here, since we have definitely seen it in action in the other direction and things have definitely become WAY too easy in an attempt to appease a small minority of the player base. But as Thoragaal and Fhritz are saying, there needs to be a happy medium, there really isn't much at all for those of us who land between the two extremes of "not wanting to be challenged at all" and "only the most elite can play on our team".

There is actual science and psychology behind the desire to be challenged and overcoming those challenges, and many theories that this is exactly why humans created puzzles and games in the first place.

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Veteran overworld and group overworld failed uterly in the past
One tamriel removed the level based zones including the cadwell siver and gold being a veteran version of the aliance zone

Craglorn was dead, to a point they completely redone it

They completly changed the concept of murkmire as it was supposed to be just south of shadowfen and gideon was its capital, it was an adventure zone like the og craglorn

If this were the case, then the Year Long Journey development cycle would be very different than it actually is and they'd just focus on the visual novel aspects of the game.

Thoragaal wrote: »

...as the power of players increases -> the content also becomes less challenging.

I agree that overland is now less challenging for those players who are better geared and skilled at veteran content, but for those of us who aren't overland difficulty is still the same.

Thoragaal wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Not once have I ever heard anyone in game complain that overland is too easy, or say they wish it was more challenging. If it were really a big problem for most players I think it would come up in zone or guild chat, or among friends.

It's frequently brought up in various situations. This very forum has several threads talking about it.

I know it is discussed on the forums, and I agree that there are players for whom this is a problem. But I have never heard it discussed in game.

I am not unsympathetic to players wanting to enjoy overland as I do. I just believe that any solution has to be fair to all playstyles.

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Veteran overworld and group overworld failed uterly in the past
One tamriel removed the level based zones including the cadwell siver and gold being a veteran version of the aliance zone

Craglorn was dead, to a point they completely redone it

I don't think this thread is about however Craglorn was in the past, but however it is now.

So you personally don't have fun with content like Shada's Tear and don't want to see more like that? I am from your post not sure if you are stating some meta designer perspective or you are stating your personal preferences.

Was just stating how it went last time they tried
that

I personnaly do no enjoy harder content but not againt it IF done right, right now i do not trust ZOS to do it right


It should not remove any existing content from solo player(reverse is also true, hard should stay hard) so additive change only

It should not be part of the main story (or not mandatory to be hard)

I think it would pass easier to the playerbase if its additive. For exemple if a zone get lets say 40 quest(totaly made up number)normaly quest, it should still get that much easy quest but get a few harder added on top of that

The way i think it could work
Add a world boss or 2 that are harder than what we curently have, with madatory dungeon mechanic

Same could be done with the addition of ha few harder delve and public dungeon

World event could be made harder like harrowstorm level

Portal could be haded almost anywhere to enter some not instanced content new hard content, the theme could change every year. For exeple last year it would have led to some kind of vampire krypt and this year to the deadland. This would also make the yearly world treath more beleivable for some people


Some thing i know ff14 doe in some quest where you're asked to go hunt some dangerous beast for exemple, is to have the beast be hard but debuffable trought some item
-in the context of eso-
During the dragonhold prologue we find a horn that is suppose to weaken dragons when used but is hardy used at all in dragonhold. Some story boss like Kaalgrontiid could have been veteran level but debuffed to live level by the horn if the player choose to use it.
That way both side get story content

In the end Its simply impossible to please everyone

Again im not againts adding harder stuff but if zos is to do it wrong, i prefer them not trying at all

Folkb wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

A large portion of Craglorn content is still not soloable for a lot of players.

I find that very hard to believe since I recently came back after not playing since the implementation of the stealing system and made a new character, leveled it and had blues with random traits and only 1 set that reached 5 pieces so my build was not even remotely fleshed out and I was still able to do it.

I am speaking from my own experience, and that of some of my friends.

Fhritz wrote: »

Hi !

With the ongoing even in Craglorn I gave another chance to some area, like Shada's tear. And while I was doing this dungeon (in solo), I eventually find it pretty enjoyable ! Each boss has mechanics, the difficulty was balanced, and some boss even killed me because I underestimated them ! Then, after beating Shada and finishing this quest, I thought "This content is great !". Unfortunately, outside Craglorn, there isn't anything like this in overland.

And I think that's why a lot of players find Overland boring : it lacks of difficulty ! I think each zone (or at least some zone) should at least have one of these "group" area or something similar for solo player who want some challenge ! It should be great for both casual and veteran - Casual can still do this area in a group, or even in solo since they aren't that hard and veteran can find some challenges other than arenas to do in solo !

What do you think ?

I voted yes, provided that it IS possible to solo. something thats harder than a normal base game dungeon, but easier than a vet dungeon