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Should CP 1.0 to CP 2.0 conversion should be done by exp instead of CPs ?
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trackdemon5512✭✭✭✭✭
✭No, CP should stay the same even if the gap change (Because...)No, they are saying that the amount of XP you needed to get a CP got adjusted, just like it is being now.
Since they introduced the cap, the formula has always been the same, all that has changed is the variable that is the "cap".
So, right now, if you are CP 810, it will take 671,431 XP to get to 811. When the cap is raised to 1800 it will only take 220,874.
But when the cap was 510, which was the first cap implemented, going from 810 to 811 would have taken 1,034,114 XP
And they never adjusted our CP when they raised the cap, just like they are not adjusting it now.
Exactly, the reason I brought this up in the first place is that if XP is still being earned at the same rate and we know the values of XP needed to reach parity (810) in the current system and the XP needed to reach parity (1800) in the new system, then we can literally convert that into required time, if for example it took me 1K hours to earn 100M XP in the old system, it will still take me 1K hours to earn 100M in the new system. So I can easily estimate that because it took me 2.5K hours to reach 200M XP (CP810) it will take me another 3-4K or so hours to get from CP810 (100M XP in the new system) to 1800 (435M in the new system), a difference of 335M XP.
And since it will take over double the XP to reach the new cap of 1800 compared to the old cap of 810, it will also take over double the time for a new player to reach the new cap than it would have the old.
That's the XP it takes to get to 810 when you started when the cap was already at 810.
That's not the XP it took someone like me, who was always above the cap. It took me a lot more than it took you, because I always had either the flat 400k XP per champion point (before there was a cap) or a 50% penalty once the cap was introduced because I was above it.
BTW, are you exactly at 810CP?
I've told @Ringod123 multiple times that their logic in how the CP leveling progresses is wrong yet they refuse to listen. The curve for how easy it is to get a CP point is adjusted so that all activities being equal it would take the same amount of play as it takes to get to 810 now to get to 1800 after the patch. @Ringod123 continues to believe that it will take more than double their current playtime to get to 1800 when the curve in fact will effectively do the opposite and cut the grind by a bit less than half the time.
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ExistingRug61✭✭✭✭No, CP should stay the same even if the gap change (Because...)
@trackdemon5512trackdemon5512 wrote: »No, they are saying that the amount of XP you needed to get a CP got adjusted, just like it is being now.
Since they introduced the cap, the formula has always been the same, all that has changed is the variable that is the "cap".
So, right now, if you are CP 810, it will take 671,431 XP to get to 811. When the cap is raised to 1800 it will only take 220,874.
But when the cap was 510, which was the first cap implemented, going from 810 to 811 would have taken 1,034,114 XP
And they never adjusted our CP when they raised the cap, just like they are not adjusting it now.
Exactly, the reason I brought this up in the first place is that if XP is still being earned at the same rate and we know the values of XP needed to reach parity (810) in the current system and the XP needed to reach parity (1800) in the new system, then we can literally convert that into required time, if for example it took me 1K hours to earn 100M XP in the old system, it will still take me 1K hours to earn 100M in the new system. So I can easily estimate that because it took me 2.5K hours to reach 200M XP (CP810) it will take me another 3-4K or so hours to get from CP810 (100M XP in the new system) to 1800 (435M in the new system), a difference of 335M XP.
And since it will take over double the XP to reach the new cap of 1800 compared to the old cap of 810, it will also take over double the time for a new player to reach the new cap than it would have the old.
That's the XP it takes to get to 810 when you started when the cap was already at 810.
That's not the XP it took someone like me, who was always above the cap. It took me a lot more than it took you, because I always had either the flat 400k XP per champion point (before there was a cap) or a 50% penalty once the cap was introduced because I was above it.
BTW, are you exactly at 810CP?
I've told @Ringod123 multiple times that their logic in how the CP leveling progresses is wrong yet they refuse to listen. The curve for how easy it is to get a CP point is adjusted so that all activities being equal it would take the same amount of play as it takes to get to 810 now to get to 1800 after the patch. @Ringod123 continues to believe that it will take more than double their current playtime to get to 1800 when the curve in fact will effectively do the opposite and cut the grind by a bit less than half the time.
I mean, I don't think we should convert either, but what @Ringod123 is saying about the time taken to reach parity from a starting point of 0 is correct.
Under the current live system, it takes 195 mil total xp to reach CP810 from staring at 0.
(****Assuming the xp was gained after CP810 became the cap - see note at end)
Under the new curve, it takes 435 mil total xp to reach CP1800 from starting at 0.
(Assuming all this xp is earned after the patch goes live)
There is no change to the rate at which xp can be gained.
Hence, all activities being equal, it will take longer game time wise to go from 0 to CP1800 under the new curve if you start from 0 under the new conditions than it did to go from 0 to CP810 under the current live curve if you started from 0 under the current live curve.
Yes, it will take less than half the xp to get to 810CP under the new curve as it took to get to 810 under the old.
Likewise it will take less than half the xp to get to 1800 under the new curve as it took to get to 1800 under the old.
Both are less than half, as you say. But that's not what he is disputing.
He is not saying it will take longer to reach the same CP number under the new and old.
He is saying it takes longer to reach the power parity value than it did before, and because this is now at a much higher CP, it will take longer to get to, despite each individual CP being easier to get. Which is correct.
(****Note: This is assuming you earned all that xp since the cap became CP810 several updates ago, as @AlnilamE points out if you earned it before that point this is not the case and it would have been more. This is a small part of the reason I don't think the conversion is necessary. However, for the purposes of the above discussion, it is the only comparison we can accurately make, ie: current live vs pts)Edited by ExistingRug61 on February 22, 2021 10:32PM2 -
Ringod123✭✭✭Yes, CP should be converted proportionally to the EXP earned before (Because...)trackdemon5512 wrote: »
I've told @Ringod123 multiple times that their logic in how the CP leveling progresses is wrong yet they refuse to listen. The curve for how easy it is to get a CP point is adjusted so that all activities being equal it would take the same amount of play as it takes to get to 810 now to get to 1800 after the patch. @Ringod123 continues to believe that it will take more than double their current playtime to get to 1800 when the curve in fact will effectively do the opposite and cut the grind by a bit less than half the time.
All you have done is clearly show you don't understand that changing the curve is a change to XP to CP conversion and not a change to XP gain. Since XP gains remain the same, the time needed to grind a certain amount of XP stays the same.
Fact is it takes 200M XP for a new player to reach 810 (current cap) in the current system and 435M XP to reach 1800 (new cap) in the new, since XP gain remains the same it is completely logical that it will take twice the time to earn twice the XP.Edited by Ringod123 on February 22, 2021 10:34PM1 -
Ranger209✭✭✭✭✭No, CP should stay the same even if the gap change (Because...)trackdemon5512 wrote: »
I've told @Ringod123 multiple times that their logic in how the CP leveling progresses is wrong yet they refuse to listen. The curve for how easy it is to get a CP point is adjusted so that all activities being equal it would take the same amount of play as it takes to get to 810 now to get to 1800 after the patch. @Ringod123 continues to believe that it will take more than double their current playtime to get to 1800 when the curve in fact will effectively do the opposite and cut the grind by a bit less than half the time.
All you have done is clearly show you don't understand that changing the curve is a change to XP to CP conversion and not a change to XP gain. Since XP gains remain the same, the time needed to grind a certain amount of XP stays the same.
Fact is it takes 200M XP for a new player to reach 810 (current cap) in the current system and 435M XP to reach 1800 (new cap) in the new, since XP gain remains the same it is completely logical that it will take twice the time to earn twice the XP.
No one knows where parity will be achieved. I'm not even sure what you mean by parity for certain. Do you mean if you do X DPS on live at 810 how many CP will it take in 2.0 to do that same DPS? Do you mean at 1800 vertical progression largely stops and you are considering that parity with 810 on CP 1.0 where progression has been locked for 2 years? What if at 1800 in 2.0 you are doing 5% more dps than you were at 810 in 1.0, is that parity? I think you are arguing for the first case where your DPS will be the same in 2.0 as it is in 1.0, but am not sure. If that is the case though that won't necessarily be at 1800.
What if this goes live and everyone whines they took a DPS loss of 10%, will ZOS adjust the global dps even more than they did by giving everyone 4k mag, stam, hp and 1000 wep/spell damage? If certain classes are ok and others lag behind will they adjust classes that need to be brought up to par? You are looking at this in a vacuum and there are too many variables that could impact the end result of this transition from 1.0 to 2.0. Yes it is very possible none of us will be on equal footing when this goes live from 1.0 to 2.0 except those over 2k or more CP. What they do in the coming months to make their vision of being just as effective in 2.0 as we were in 1.0 remains to be seen. Granting free CP in some XP conversion process I feel is short sighted and too much of a blanket fix for an issue that will have multiple variables.0 -
trackdemon5512✭✭✭✭✭
✭No, CP should stay the same even if the gap change (Because...)Ok lets look at it this way:
Say I earned 500k XP a day. I know most hardcore players earn far more than that but it's roughly equivalent to using all of you Enlightenment plus some more each day.
Under the current CP Leveling System it would take me:
391 days to reach CP810
1030 days to reach CP 1200
2,471 days to reach CP 1800
Under the new CP Leveling System it would be:
206 days to reach CP810
413 days to reach CP1200
870 days to reach CP1800
Now if you want "parity" the developers stated that 1200 under the new system would be the relative end of vertical progression in the game. After that your points are going for horizontal progression. So no real power increase but more choices as to what you want to simultaneously put points into. Current max is 810.
413 days versus the current 391. I don't see a problem here. Beyond that they're just giving you room for horizontal growth that normally would have taken you 4+ years to do.
If you want a higher CP then put in the time for it. But the amount of time to gain "parity" in terms of power is about the same or less than before.
I think most players are just upset about sunk time costs.The thought being "I sunk X amount of hours into this game and I should be rewarded with a higher level". But sunk time doesn't equate to level nor does it equate to skill. Time sunk is really just a matter of game enjoyment. I played the game longer and thus I got more out of it. Your power level has always been capped at what the developers set it to. Up to now (and for the last two years) that has been 810. Nothing you did beyond that had any effect on the game.
Now they're saying 1200 is effectively that and it will take new players roughly the same amount of time to get there as it took you to get to 810 if you started at Murkmire.
And if you are currently exactly CP810 well then yes it will take you another 207 days to get to 1200. Contrast that with 639 days before the patch though. And keep in mind 1200 isn't equal to 810 in combat ability. 1200 will be technically be above as its where meaningful vertical progression ends. The current 810 cap in the current system, though locked by developers, would still have had vertical progression room available for players. You would be approaching that theoretical limit.0 -
ExistingRug61✭✭✭✭No, CP should stay the same even if the gap change (Because...)trackdemon5512 wrote: »Ok lets look at it this way:
Say I earned 500k XP a day. I know most hardcore players earn far more than that but it's roughly equivalent to using all of you Enlightenment plus some more each day.
Under the current CP Leveling System it would take me:
391 days to reach CP810
1030 days to reach CP 1200
2,471 days to reach CP 1800
Under the new CP Leveling System it would be:
206 days to reach CP810
413 days to reach CP1200
870 days to reach CP1800
Now if you want "parity" the developers stated that 1200 under the new system would be the relative end of vertical progression in the game. After that your points are going for horizontal progression. So no real power increase but more choices as to what you want to simultaneously put points into. Current max is 810.
413 days versus the current 391. I don't see a problem here. Beyond that they're just giving you room for horizontal growth that normally would have taken you 4+ years to do.
If you want a higher CP then put in the time for it. But the amount of time to gain "parity" in terms of power is about the same or less than before.
I think most players are just upset about sunk time costs.The thought being "I sunk X amount of hours into this game and I should be rewarded with a higher level". But sunk time doesn't equate to level nor does it equate to skill. Time sunk is really just a matter of game enjoyment. I played the game longer and thus I got more out of it. Your power level has always been capped at what the developers set it to. Up to now (and for the last two years) that has been 810. Nothing you did beyond that had any effect on the game.
Now they're saying 1200 is effectively that and it will take new players roughly the same amount of time to get there as it took you to get to 810 if you started at Murkmire.
And if you are currently exactly CP810 well then yes it will take you another 207 days to get to 1200. Contrast that with 639 days before the patch though. And keep in mind 1200 isn't equal to 810 in combat ability. 1200 will be technically be above as its where meaningful vertical progression ends. The current 810 cap in the current system, though locked by developers, would still have had vertical progression room available for players. You would be approaching that theoretical limit.
Keep in mind where the meaningful vertical progression ends depends on what in game activity you do.
The 1200 being the relative end for vertical progression for one role in PvE.
So sure, for PvE dps it may around 1200.
For PvP you want all roles, so its definitely at least 1800.0 -
trackdemon5512✭✭✭✭✭
✭No, CP should stay the same even if the gap change (Because...)ExistingRug61 wrote: »trackdemon5512 wrote: »Ok lets look at it this way:
Say I earned 500k XP a day. I know most hardcore players earn far more than that but it's roughly equivalent to using all of you Enlightenment plus some more each day.
Under the current CP Leveling System it would take me:
391 days to reach CP810
1030 days to reach CP 1200
2,471 days to reach CP 1800
Under the new CP Leveling System it would be:
206 days to reach CP810
413 days to reach CP1200
870 days to reach CP1800
Now if you want "parity" the developers stated that 1200 under the new system would be the relative end of vertical progression in the game. After that your points are going for horizontal progression. So no real power increase but more choices as to what you want to simultaneously put points into. Current max is 810.
413 days versus the current 391. I don't see a problem here. Beyond that they're just giving you room for horizontal growth that normally would have taken you 4+ years to do.
If you want a higher CP then put in the time for it. But the amount of time to gain "parity" in terms of power is about the same or less than before.
I think most players are just upset about sunk time costs.The thought being "I sunk X amount of hours into this game and I should be rewarded with a higher level". But sunk time doesn't equate to level nor does it equate to skill. Time sunk is really just a matter of game enjoyment. I played the game longer and thus I got more out of it. Your power level has always been capped at what the developers set it to. Up to now (and for the last two years) that has been 810. Nothing you did beyond that had any effect on the game.
Now they're saying 1200 is effectively that and it will take new players roughly the same amount of time to get there as it took you to get to 810 if you started at Murkmire.
And if you are currently exactly CP810 well then yes it will take you another 207 days to get to 1200. Contrast that with 639 days before the patch though. And keep in mind 1200 isn't equal to 810 in combat ability. 1200 will be technically be above as its where meaningful vertical progression ends. The current 810 cap in the current system, though locked by developers, would still have had vertical progression room available for players. You would be approaching that theoretical limit.
Keep in mind where the meaningful vertical progression ends depends on what in game activity you do.
The 1200 being the relative end for vertical progression for one role in PvE.
So sure, for PvE dps it may around 1200.
For PvP you want all roles, so its definitely at least 1800.
So as it is if you want to become all powerful without any further vertical progression then you need to put in work. Sounds fair to me considering no player has any real advantage to leveling over another player.
A sense of progress is what keeps the vast majority of this game population playing and the current rate as of PTS 6.3.3 is more than fair. A year or less of work for 1200. Almost 2 years for 1800. It’s well known that players at that point can easily accumulate a million+ XP a day, well beyond the numbers I put up in my example and those players will hit those high numbers long before two years are up.
Like I said the system is fair and if you want to become the apex don’t expect it to come easy, even with changes like these and the time you’ve put in.0 -
Kurat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes, CP should be converted proportionally to the EXP earned before (Because...)All the pve content can be done with 0 cp. Also you can play no cp pvp and battlegrounds is no cp. I dont see the issue. The only ones who need to grind are cp PVPers. I'm actually glad that they got shafted this time. Its usually pve players who have to suffer because of nerfs demanded by PVPers.0 -
SirTyrraxius✭✭No, CP should stay the same even if the gap change (Because...)No, CP shouldn't be converted based on XP because there's no need. You're not losing any XP, no one forced you to grind past 810 and if you want to do 1vX PVP montages in new CP, either work for the new points or leave the game. [snip]
[Edited to remove Baiting]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on February 23, 2021 1:58PM1 -
Ringod123✭✭✭Yes, CP should be converted proportionally to the EXP earned before (Because...)SirTyrraxius wrote: »No, CP shouldn't be converted based on XP because there's no need. You're not losing any XP, no one forced you to grind past 810 and if you want to do 1vX PVP montages in new CP, either work for the new points or leave the game. [snip]
[Edited to remove Baiting]
Except you literally are losing XP. If you have 200M XP in the current system you will only have 100M in the new. Bad argument is bad.Edited by Ringod123 on February 23, 2021 4:39PM2 -
EpicHero✭✭✭✭Yes, CP should be converted proportionally to the EXP earned before (Because...)So based on this poll, 80% of players say that new CP level should be based on the new scale.
And only 20% says it shouldn't.
Unfortunately, we don't know how much of those 20% are below CP 810 currently
And to be honest, I still haven't heard a single good reason NOT to scale CP level to the new curve.
There will always be huge discrepancies between player's CP level, not scaling won't prevent that.
Imo, people played the game and made that XP. Scaling it to the new system doesn't take anything away from anybody.
Not scaling it to the new system takes hundreds of CP away from lots of people.4 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, CP should stay the same even if the gap change (Because...)So based on this poll, 80% of players say that new CP level should be based on the new scale.
And only 20% says it shouldn't.
Unfortunately, we don't know how much of those 20% are below CP 810 currently
And to be honest, I still haven't heard a single good reason NOT to scale CP level to the new curve.
There will always be huge discrepancies between player's CP level, not scaling won't prevent that.
Imo, people played the game and made that XP. Scaling it to the new system doesn't take anything away from anybody.
Not scaling it to the new system takes hundreds of CP away from lots of people.
This isn't a scientific poll... the question is loaded to make people answer Yes. based on the title, who is going to click on the link and OP, it shows a clear bias towards the yes answer.
So, you can't exactly use that as your basis.
I know one person who said "no" already said they were at like 1000 CP... I'm a 2nd no and I'm at ~2k CP. So there's at least 2 who are reasonably above the cap.
Also, I haven't heard a single good reason to scale CP level. Past practice (on every other bump to the scale) was to NOT scale the CP level. So this is keeping with past practice.
I think ZoS was being super generous to actually bump the scaling all the way to 1800, which is well beyond the threshold for major vertical progression (which ends in the 1100-1200 CP range) and minor vertical progression (which ends in the 1400-1500 range) and goes up to the absolute end of all vertical progression (which is at like 1800 to get the off-stat and off-healing passives).
(For those that are throwing about the 2000-2400 CP numbers... make sure you're looking at the changes that were made in 6.3.2, and NOT the original 6.3.0 changes, they drastically reduced the total CP need to reach vertical progression cap)The Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger69,420 achievement points2 -
trackdemon5512✭✭✭✭✭
✭No, CP should stay the same even if the gap change (Because...)SirTyrraxius wrote: »No, CP shouldn't be converted based on XP because there's no need. You're not losing any XP, no one forced you to grind past 810 and if you want to do 1vX PVP montages in new CP, either work for the new points or leave the game. [snip]
[Edited to remove Baiting]
Except you literally are losing XP. If you have 200M XP in the current system you will only have 100M in the new. Bad argument is bad.
Your conflating total XP to leveling and that’s the wrong way to think about it. It’s better to consider that X amount of XP gets you from CP 1 to CP 2. Subsequently X+(A small addition) gets you from CP 2 to CP 3.
The system is now just decreasing how much of X gets you from CP 1 to CP 2 and so forth. The game doesn’t care about the total amount of XP you’ve ever earned. It simply cares about how much it takes to get from A to B. The total amount of XP you’ve earned can never be taken away from you, it’s just that it isn’t accounted for by a system that has no need for that data.
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Kwoung✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes, CP should be converted proportionally to the EXP earned before (Because...)I am CP1035 and from what I saw on test, it will take me close to doubling that just to buy back the skills I have today, it is a HUGE nerf IMHO and I am not happy about it. Also not a fan of having to constantly swap my passives around every time I change activities, something I do about 4-6 times a day currently. Want to harvest, change loadout, want to farm chests, change loadout, want to pick pockets, change loadout, want to hunt, change loadout, want to craft, change loadout... Bleh.
Anyhow back on topic... As an example, you can currently buy Master Gatherer or Treasure Hunter, very popular skills, at 225 CP. Under the new system you will need 480 CP to buy it, more than double the current requirement.
If they are not going to adjust CP to what we have earned over the years, they should at the very least re-arrange their tree to allow for all the skills someone may currently have to be able to be repurchased with their existing CP. One thing I haven't seen anyone mention is what a huge gold sink this will be, until you are about CP 2700 you will either be constantly spending 3k gold to move skills around, or just have to deal with being completely gimped in certain activities. This mostly rears its ugly head in the green tree.Edited by Kwoung on February 23, 2021 5:59PM3 -
Ringod123✭✭✭Yes, CP should be converted proportionally to the EXP earned before (Because...)trackdemon5512 wrote: »SirTyrraxius wrote: »No, CP shouldn't be converted based on XP because there's no need. You're not losing any XP, no one forced you to grind past 810 and if you want to do 1vX PVP montages in new CP, either work for the new points or leave the game. [snip]
[Edited to remove Baiting]
Except you literally are losing XP. If you have 200M XP in the current system you will only have 100M in the new. Bad argument is bad.
Your conflating total XP to leveling and that’s the wrong way to think about it. It’s better to consider that X amount of XP gets you from CP 1 to CP 2. Subsequently X+(A small addition) gets you from CP 2 to CP 3.
The system is now just decreasing how much of X gets you from CP 1 to CP 2 and so forth. The game doesn’t care about the total amount of XP you’ve ever earned. It simply cares about how much it takes to get from A to B. The total amount of XP you’ve earned can never be taken away from you, it’s just that it isn’t accounted for by a system that has no need for that data.
Yet again you are completely wrong, I Have 200M XP earned to get to 810 in current system, in new system I have 810CP but only 100M total XP earned according to the scale. So saying "you havn't lost XP" is completely false, I havn't lost CP, but most certainly have lost XP.
And I was one of the people who had to tell you how XP and CP worked properly after all of your previous arguments were based of wrong information, even in this very same thread.Edited by Ringod123 on February 23, 2021 6:26PM1 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, CP should stay the same even if the gap change (Because...)trackdemon5512 wrote: »SirTyrraxius wrote: »No, CP shouldn't be converted based on XP because there's no need. You're not losing any XP, no one forced you to grind past 810 and if you want to do 1vX PVP montages in new CP, either work for the new points or leave the game. [snip]
[Edited to remove Baiting]
Except you literally are losing XP. If you have 200M XP in the current system you will only have 100M in the new. Bad argument is bad.
Your conflating total XP to leveling and that’s the wrong way to think about it. It’s better to consider that X amount of XP gets you from CP 1 to CP 2. Subsequently X+(A small addition) gets you from CP 2 to CP 3.
The system is now just decreasing how much of X gets you from CP 1 to CP 2 and so forth. The game doesn’t care about the total amount of XP you’ve ever earned. It simply cares about how much it takes to get from A to B. The total amount of XP you’ve earned can never be taken away from you, it’s just that it isn’t accounted for by a system that has no need for that data.
Yet again you are completely wrong, I Have 200M XP earned to get to 810 in current system, in new system I have 810CP but only 100M total XP earned according to the scale. So saying "you havn't lost XP" is completely false, I havn't lost CP, but most certainly have lost XP.
And I was one of the people who had to tell you how XP and CP worked properly after all of your previous arguments were based of wrong information, even in this very same thread.
and you keep stating that "XP hasn't been lost previously" when it's been pointed out, even in this various same thread, that they have done this every other time the cap had been changed previously The Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger69,420 achievement points2 -
Merlin13KAGL✭✭✭✭✭
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And you're getting double your CP value for that "half XP" you're losing.SirTyrraxius wrote: »No, CP shouldn't be converted based on XP because there's no need. You're not losing any XP, no one forced you to grind past 810 and if you want to do 1vX PVP montages in new CP, either work for the new points or leave the game. [snip]
[Edited to remove Baiting]
Except you literally are losing XP. If you have 200M XP in the current system you will only have 100M in the new. Bad argument is bad.
By the original design, you were already "losing" all XP past 810. Did you stop playing the game then?I know one person who said "no" already said they were at like 1000 CP... I'm a 2nd no and I'm at ~2k CP. So there's at least 2 who are reasonably above the cap.
Also, I haven't heard a single good reason to scale CP level. Past practice (on every other bump to the scale) was to NOT scale the CP level. So this is keeping with past practice.
I think ZoS was being super generous to actually bump the scaling all the way to 1800, which is well beyond the threshold for major vertical progression (which ends in the 1100-1200 CP range) and minor vertical progression (which ends in the 1400-1500 range) and goes up to the absolute end of all vertical progression (which is at like 1800 to get the off-stat and off-healing passives).
(For those that are throwing about the 2000-2400 CP numbers... make sure you're looking at the changes that were made in 6.3.2, and NOT the original 6.3.0 changes, they drastically reduced the total CP need to reach vertical progression cap)
@tmbrinks Add me to your list, a couple times overMerlin13KAGL wrote: »
It's about the differential, nothing more. Characters will still be playable, points will still be obtainable, XP scrolls and 2x XP events will still flow like water, and you still won't need absolutely every single unlockable passive to be viable.
Player skill and experience are going to be worth far more than that last little 1% of this or that people are so certain will tilt the scale.
I commend your logic. You've been beating this dead horse far longer than I, and the horse hasn't even been released yet.
The good news, ZoS tends to be stubborn, and all the "good" arguments for compensation are likely to fall on deaf ears anyway.
Good luck, and see you on both sides of the CP curve either way.
Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...
Earn it.
IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS0 -
remosito✭✭✭✭✭Yes, CP should be converted proportionally to the EXP earned before (Because...)trackdemon5512 wrote: »
Your conflating total XP to leveling and that’s the wrong way to think about it.
Nope. It's actually the right way to think about it.
Anything else is just stockholm syndrome. Which as well explains the repeated justifications of "zos has always (mis) treated us that way" as if that makes another round of it any better or acceptable...
ShutYerTrap (selectively mute NPC dialogues (stuga, companions); displayleads (antiquity leads location); UndauntedPledgeQueuer (small daily undaunted dungeon queuer window)4 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes, CP should be converted proportionally to the EXP earned before (Because...)Yes, but I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for ZOS to do the right thing. They have a history of showing that they really don't care about vet players. Their business model is about bringing new players in and selling as many reskinned mounts as they can for whatever the average players life expectancy is in this game, guessing less than a year.
Simply put if X amount of XP gained under CP 1.0 leads to Y amount of total Champion Points and under 2.0 it leads to Z amount of Champion points, current players should get the difference of Z-Y added to their total on patch day. This should be true whether they have 1 CP or 3000 CP. In other words, your CP total should be recalculated on the new curve.
That said, IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN.0 -
Contaminate✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes, CP should be converted proportionally to the EXP earned before (Because...)They should, but they wanna con people into sinking even more time into the pointless grind1 -
Nordic__Knights✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes, CP should be converted proportionally to the EXP earned before (Because...)
try again when vr ranks changed they gave us our CP off our XP gain not vr ranking1 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, CP should stay the same even if the gap change (Because...)trackdemon5512 wrote: »
Your conflating total XP to leveling and that’s the wrong way to think about it.
Nope. It's actually the right way to think about it.
Anything else is just stockholm syndrome. Which as well explains the repeated justifications of "zos has always (mis) treated us that way" as if that makes another round of it any better or acceptable...
So did you stop playing when you got to CP 810? Because you lost a third of your XP at that point because of the above-cap penalty.
Let me say this: If they adjust the curve, they should go all the way back to when they first instituted Champion Points so that it is fair to everyone and nobody "loses XP" as you put it.
And that's not possible.
If they did that, I'd probably get to at least 2400 CP, because I've always been above the cap.The Moot Councillor0 -
Fischblut✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If new CP system was making us powerful, I would vote Yes (to get extra CP points based on experience I've received over the years). If calculations are correct, I would be at 3600 CP already.
However, I have collected lot of repair kits over the years, and I wouldn't be afraid to use them...
But the problem is - new CP system isn't making us powerful. Based on that reveal stream, they want to introduce new CP system simply to improve performance by reducing calculations
We will become less powerful, so amount of CPs we have doesn't matter. Even if they gave players their "missing" CPs based on experience, there would be nothing to spend them on. So if they don't rethink their decisions about passives and "active stars", I don't plan to grind for CPs. Edited by Fischblut on February 23, 2021 10:11PM0 -
trackdemon5512✭✭✭✭✭
✭No, CP should stay the same even if the gap change (Because...)trackdemon5512 wrote: »SirTyrraxius wrote: »No, CP shouldn't be converted based on XP because there's no need. You're not losing any XP, no one forced you to grind past 810 and if you want to do 1vX PVP montages in new CP, either work for the new points or leave the game. [snip]
[Edited to remove Baiting]
Except you literally are losing XP. If you have 200M XP in the current system you will only have 100M in the new. Bad argument is bad.
Your conflating total XP to leveling and that’s the wrong way to think about it. It’s better to consider that X amount of XP gets you from CP 1 to CP 2. Subsequently X+(A small addition) gets you from CP 2 to CP 3.
The system is now just decreasing how much of X gets you from CP 1 to CP 2 and so forth. The game doesn’t care about the total amount of XP you’ve ever earned. It simply cares about how much it takes to get from A to B. The total amount of XP you’ve earned can never be taken away from you, it’s just that it isn’t accounted for by a system that has no need for that data.
Yet again you are completely wrong, I Have 200M XP earned to get to 810 in current system, in new system I have 810CP but only 100M total XP earned according to the scale. So saying "you havn't lost XP" is completely false, I havn't lost CP, but most certainly have lost XP.
And I was one of the people who had to tell you how XP and CP worked properly after all of your previous arguments were based of wrong information, even in this very same thread.
I’m going to assume you’ve only been playing since 2018 around Murkmire because as @tmbrinks pointed out this XP reduction cost per CP point gained has been done every single patch since CP was implemented.
From what I know the CP system was originally supposed to be in the game but didn’t make it through development until after launch. This is why if XP translated directly to CP directly after it being implemented it stopped being so for every increase after.
Every time they increased usable CP after the caps were implemented the curve was adjusted so that leveling up to that cap was easier. As such like @tmbrinks pointed out there are many players out there that likely would be 3600 right now yet they aren’t complaining.
What you’ve earned is what you’ve earned. Congratulations. That number never changes. But like I said with the current systems all that matters is what it currently takes to get from CP 1 to CP 2. The total amount of XP you’ve earned is arbitrary as there are players that came before you, earned far more to get to 690/720/750/780/810 (all cap increases) and accept that this is how it is.
Also be glad that ZOS is even doing this. When they first alluded to redoing the CP system some suspected that CP would be gotten rid of completely. They also could have redid CP Levels the way that WoW did this year with Shadowlands and just level crunch everyone back to a place where new and veteran players didn’t have as much of a gap.0 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, CP should stay the same even if the gap change (Because...)Nordic__Knights wrote: »
try again when vr ranks changed they gave us our CP off our XP gain not vr ranking
Completely false. I got the exact same credit for my "main" that had played at maxed out V16 for months as I did for the "alt" character that reached V16 the week before the transition.
I don't understand how people are lying so much, and then justifying those lies.
When you tell patently false statements, and purposefully spread that misinformation, I can't trust anything that you say.... but I guess that's just today's society
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Yes, CP should be converted proportionally to the EXP earned before (Because...)I am CP1035 and from what I saw on test, it will take me close to doubling that just to buy back the skills I have today, it is a HUGE nerf IMHO and I am not happy about it. Also not a fan of having to constantly swap my passives around every time I change activities, something I do about 4-6 times a day currently. Want to harvest, change loadout, want to farm chests, change loadout, want to pick pockets, change loadout, want to hunt, change loadout, want to craft, change loadout... Bleh.
Anyhow back on topic... As an example, you can currently buy Master Gatherer or Treasure Hunter, very popular skills, at 225 CP. Under the new system you will need 480 CP to buy it, more than double the current requirement.
If they are not going to adjust CP to what we have earned over the years, they should at the very least re-arrange their tree to allow for all the skills someone may currently have to be able to be repurchased with their existing CP. One thing I haven't seen anyone mention is what a huge gold sink this will be, until you are about CP 2700 you will either be constantly spending 3k gold to move skills around, or just have to deal with being completely gimped in certain activities. This mostly rears its ugly head in the green tree.
Exactly this.
It wonders me why not more people are vocal about it, as we face a system in where we have to micromanage our constellations for things we can do now without changing perks or change our champion points for 3000 gold each time.
If the goal is to have a seperate craft character, a farm character, a pickpocket character etc. etc. then this new CP system nailed it. I get that we have to re-spec our toons for the roles we play, but to do that just for basic gameplay like farming is to much for me. To convert XP to CP would help a little to overcome the inconveniences caused by the new CP system, but I really do not look forward at all to manage the constellation perks, even not with an addon that would make it more easy to do.
So yeah, we earned the XP all the years we pay and play, now convert them to CP conform the new requirement system please. I like eating sweetrolls and crushing skulls, and I am all out of sweetrolls.2 -
trackdemon5512✭✭✭✭✭
✭No, CP should stay the same even if the gap change (Because...)Luvtantius_Micocia wrote: »I am CP1035 and from what I saw on test, it will take me close to doubling that just to buy back the skills I have today, it is a HUGE nerf IMHO and I am not happy about it. Also not a fan of having to constantly swap my passives around every time I change activities, something I do about 4-6 times a day currently. Want to harvest, change loadout, want to farm chests, change loadout, want to pick pockets, change loadout, want to hunt, change loadout, want to craft, change loadout... Bleh.
Anyhow back on topic... As an example, you can currently buy Master Gatherer or Treasure Hunter, very popular skills, at 225 CP. Under the new system you will need 480 CP to buy it, more than double the current requirement.
If they are not going to adjust CP to what we have earned over the years, they should at the very least re-arrange their tree to allow for all the skills someone may currently have to be able to be repurchased with their existing CP. One thing I haven't seen anyone mention is what a huge gold sink this will be, until you are about CP 2700 you will either be constantly spending 3k gold to move skills around, or just have to deal with being completely gimped in certain activities. This mostly rears its ugly head in the green tree.
Exactly this.
It wonders me why not more people are vocal about it, as we face a system in where we have to micromanage our constellations for things we can do now without changing perks or change our champion points for 3000 gold each time.
If the goal is to have a seperate craft character, a farm character, a pickpocket character etc. etc. then this new CP system nailed it. I get that we have to re-spec our toons for the roles we play, but to do that just for basic gameplay like farming is to much for me. To convert XP to CP would help a little to overcome the inconveniences caused by the new CP system, but I really do not look forward at all to manage the constellation perks, even not with an addon that would make it more easy to do.
So yeah, we earned the XP all the years we pay and play, now convert them to CP conform the new requirement system please.
One character can do it all. You just have to not be lazy and switch your active CP abilities around. If you absolutely have to reset your CP for 3k that amount of gold is literally a pittance. You could steal it from chests in 3 minutes if you didn't have it. This is a fair trade for fewer computations server side leading to lag, attacks not registering, etc.
If you want everything then level up for it but realize even those that are super high CP still have to switch in and out CP abilities.
If the CP change went through the way you wanted it to (It won't as PTS is done now basically) then players like me would be running around 3000+ CP and you would scream that it's unfair as you would have to grind another few years to get that.0 -
remosito✭✭✭✭✭Yes, CP should be converted proportionally to the EXP earned before (Because...)
Let me say this: If they adjust the curve, they should go all the way back to when they first instituted Champion Points so that it is fair to everyone and nobody "loses XP" as you put it.
And that's not possible.
"Something bad has always been done that way", "We cant fully undo what was done this way" was, is and never will be a valid reason to do it again the same way.
Or do you think "We can't go back and allow women to vote in past elections. So we won't allow them to vote in future ones either" was a valid reason back in the days?ShutYerTrap (selectively mute NPC dialogues (stuga, companions); displayleads (antiquity leads location); UndauntedPledgeQueuer (small daily undaunted dungeon queuer window)1 -
remosito✭✭✭✭✭Yes, CP should be converted proportionally to the EXP earned before (Because...)trackdemon5512 wrote: »
One character can do it all. You just have to not be lazy and switch your active CP abilities around. If you absolutely have to reset your CP for 3k that amount of gold is literally a pittance. You could steal it from chests in 3 minutes if you didn't have it. This is a fair trade for fewer computations server side leading to lag, attacks not registering, etc.
If you want everything then level up for it but realize even those that are super high CP still have to switch in and out CP abilities.
If the CP change went through the way you wanted it to (It won't as PTS is done now basically) then players like me would be running around 3000+ CP and you would scream that it's unfair as you would have to grind another few years to get that.
It's not the 3k gold. One takes seconds, the other many minutes.ShutYerTrap (selectively mute NPC dialogues (stuga, companions); displayleads (antiquity leads location); UndauntedPledgeQueuer (small daily undaunted dungeon queuer window)1 -
trackdemon5512✭✭✭✭✭
✭No, CP should stay the same even if the gap change (Because...)trackdemon5512 wrote: »
One character can do it all. You just have to not be lazy and switch your active CP abilities around. If you absolutely have to reset your CP for 3k that amount of gold is literally a pittance. You could steal it from chests in 3 minutes if you didn't have it. This is a fair trade for fewer computations server side leading to lag, attacks not registering, etc.
If you want everything then level up for it but realize even those that are super high CP still have to switch in and out CP abilities.
If the CP change went through the way you wanted it to (It won't as PTS is done now basically) then players like me would be running around 3000+ CP and you would scream that it's unfair as you would have to grind another few years to get that.
It's not the 3k gold. One takes seconds, the other many minutes.
Well then how often are you flipping your CP around? Seems way too often. Are you flipping between PVP and PVE builds because that’s the only reason I can really see switching all that CP around.
Consider that with the new system as you level up the costs and effort of slotting CP skills decreases and is made easier. Perhaps either focus on leveling or dedicated role play than trying to be everything all at once. Doing so is what led us to the current situation with the server taking hits for doing so many CP related calculations at once.0
This discussion has been closed.