for every example of yours of someone obviously playing badly, there are more people who are actualy trying, but cannot manage to execute the timing anyways. who are taking care with their gear, making sure to level the right skills, attempt the rotation.

And those players easily pull 3-4x the DPS that the floor pulls, when advised on how to properly set up their character and how to optimise their rotation, which is more than enough DPS for most group content in the game (ie normal dungeons, normal trials, vet base game dungeons, some vet HM base game dungeons).

DLC dungeons have been getting progressively harder and harder even on normal - in fact, most DLC dungeons feel harder on normal then half the vanilla dungeons feel on VET. same applies to trials. this is NOT an accident.

Which is a good thing, because it adds even more levels of difficulty, which this game sorely needs. The jump from normal to vet in some content is far too great, leaving a huge gulf in the middle that is necessary for progression. Those normal DLC dungeons can be the next step from vet base game dungeons, to ease players into harder content, rather than just having them jump straight from "kind of easy" vet base game dungeons (assuming they've done the harder ones) to "actually need to be good" vet DLC dungeons.

maybe its becasue you are so used to weaving you are not even realizing it, but even while practicing - the disparity is immense. its not as obvious when you are still leveling, but it is GLARING at max level. yes it makes that much of a difference.

The problem is that when a player is failing to weave properly, it's also often the case that they're failing to perform other parts of their rotation properly, which also contribute to the relatively low DPS. Which circles back to my main point: weaving is not the problem, ignorance and a lack of experience is.

no just practicing and optimizing is not enough. when I see my SO who is a MUCH better player then I am, who has done practicing on a dummy for a fair bit, whose dps is about 30kish when we duo dungeons together, who has been pvping in multiple games - get frustrated because he sees people fire off attacks so rapidly that he cannot counter them even with practice, when he cannot execute the same even with practice (and i don't just mean dummy either, he's done quite a lot of dueling just to get more into the groove of movement, etc)?

How do you think other players got to that point? By practicing. It's literally just two buttons. Yes, how fast you can do it will be limited by your ping, but as an Australian who regularly plays at 250-300 ping (sometimes higher, a lot higher), you can still weave fast enough for it to make a positive difference on your DPS.

Hell, go watch the Stonethorn magblade parse on Liko's channel, as that was done by an Australia who sat around 250 ping the entire time, who still managed to break 94k against the trial dummy. Many US players consider ping beyond 100 unplayable, and yet here's this dude with 2.5x that at least, who's able to match US players in parse DPS.

It's literally just finding what speed you're comfortable with, and practicing until that gets ingrained within muscle memory, at which point you may try to push yourself a little harder to push a little more DPS out, rinse and repeat. That's it.

If you don't want to put that amount of effort into it, fine, but you shouldn't expect to match what top players are capable of pulling, and you certainly shouldn't expect Zenimax to balance the game around you, when your problem is entirely you not wanting to put the time and effort into learning and practicing.

I can only look at your assertion and wonder if you are deliberately blind to problems, or just really that oblivious? the timing required is so precise that it is OBSENE to require players to practice to that degree just to be able to measure up - this is not a gorram job.

Again, it's really not that bad. Again, if someone with more than 2.5x the ping that US players would consider unplayable is able to match US players' parse DPS, you can too, with practice.

raising the damage of skills might help more.

You'll be raising the damage of the ceiling far higher than the damage of the floor, since the damage of the ceiling knows how to maximise the damage increase of any buffs to skill damage.

removing ability to cancel light attack animations, while still allowing them to fire? might help as well.

It'll help drop the ceiling (much to their dismay), but it still won't help raise the floor, all it does it make them feel better about their unchanged damage, since now the ceiling is now a little closer.

but we do not want this. reality is, players at the top or even close to it, WANT the ceiling to be that high, WANT the gap to be that high. since I cannot be charitable when it comes to why I think that is, I leave it to you to admit to yourself as to why.

Because a skill gap is good and healthy for the game. A skill gap that's as large as the current one is, is not healthy for the game, but, as I've already covered, that's largely due to the ignorance and lack of experience on the part of the floor.

N/A

By the way, If animation canceling is indeed an exploit, why haven't the people complaining about it taking advantage of it? It has been in the game for a fairly long time and doesn't cause bans for people who actively do it so what's your reasoning for not doing it? It's also not extremely hard to do it.

They should definitely use the opportunity to remove weaving. Will probably fix the lag, and let the actually balance abilities for once.

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

Lol at the amount of players here who think Light attack weaving being bugged is somehow going to help them be better at the game. ZOS listening to these people has utterly destroyed a good game in the course of about 2 years.

Listening to the insecure, toxic player base has been destroying this game for years.

Yes, that applies to the anti-animation cancellers who have been playing a game with systems they despised for 6+ years now and insist that what has been officially recognized as a game feature - regardless of when - is a bug.

Quit spreading propaganda to support your narrative. They "accepted" it because they gave up trying to fix it. It was unintentional. Always has been. Always will be.

I love when people who don't have a technical background push these exaggerated fictions. Light attacks are on a separate cooldown than abilities. That's it. This isn't some insurmountable debug task that ZOS can't puzzle out. It's a design choice. It would be trivial to put light attacks on the same 1s global cooldown as all the other abilities, which would remove light attack weaving. ZOS doesn't want to do that. Light attack weaving is intentional. End of story.

Wasn't already mentioned that this is a bug? even without the Cancelling Animation, the game won't look like this, some skills takes 1.5s++ to cast and it's suposse to be instant,, why venting about CA here? somes skills are reaching almost 1.5s to casted without weaving any light attacks, this is not how the game it's suposse to be even without CA.

Some skills are glitching where you can cast 2x the same skills and don't show the animation but it's doing dmg, i've being hitting people with my magicka sorc where all my skills goes off at same time while at backbar casting shields, makes no sense.

This is a broken, i can hitkill people with heavy attacks with my stamblade where it doesn't show the dmg at first but after the second weave (DW) with a surprise attack instagib people cuz dmg goes all at same time, what you guys doing????

Kingslayer513 wrote: »

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

Lol at the amount of players here who think Light attack weaving being bugged is somehow going to help them be better at the game. ZOS listening to these people has utterly destroyed a good game in the course of about 2 years.

Listening to the insecure, toxic player base has been destroying this game for years.

Yes, that applies to the anti-animation cancellers who have been playing a game with systems they despised for 6+ years now and insist that what has been officially recognized as a game feature - regardless of when - is a bug.

Quit spreading propaganda to support your narrative. They "accepted" it because they gave up trying to fix it. It was unintentional. Always has been. Always will be.

I love when people who don't have a technical background push these exaggerated fictions. Light attacks are on a separate cooldown than abilities. That's it. This isn't some insurmountable debug task that ZOS can't puzzle out. It's a design choice. It would be trivial to put light attacks on the same 1s global cooldown as all the other abilities, which would remove light attack weaving. ZOS doesn't want to do that. Light attack weaving is intentional. End of story.

I think the only reason why they couldn't figure out 'how to get rid of it' is because they couldn't find a way to make combat flow effectively to the point that things were engaging and fun. People thinking that removing this would benefit the game just seem like they don't want to improve. A shame, really.

Vlad9425 wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

Vlad9425 wrote: »

asuitandtyb14_ESO wrote: »

Nice! I might actually play the game now if this is intended.

Have fun playing on your own

Pretty damn sure there have always been more posts and requests to "nerf" animation cancelling over the years, than there were to support it.

So... not really.

Pretty damn sure bad players want everything that kills them nerfed or removed so we shouldn’t be catering to these people.

Calling people who don't like exploiting unintended mechanics, "bad".

Kingslayer513 wrote: »

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

Lol at the amount of players here who think Light attack weaving being bugged is somehow going to help them be better at the game. ZOS listening to these people has utterly destroyed a good game in the course of about 2 years.

Listening to the insecure, toxic player base has been destroying this game for years.

Yes, that applies to the anti-animation cancellers who have been playing a game with systems they despised for 6+ years now and insist that what has been officially recognized as a game feature - regardless of when - is a bug.

Quit spreading propaganda to support your narrative. They "accepted" it because they gave up trying to fix it. It was unintentional. Always has been. Always will be.

I love when people who don't have a technical background push these exaggerated fictions. Light attacks are on a separate cooldown than abilities. That's it. This isn't some insurmountable debug task that ZOS can't puzzle out. It's a design choice. It would be trivial to put light attacks on the same 1s global cooldown as all the other abilities, which would remove light attack weaving. ZOS doesn't want to do that. Light attack weaving is intentional. End of story.

That is literally false. You're taking a narrative that supports the believers of one side of the debate and calling it fact. (That "end of story" bit at the end there is also telling). If you've been here for the game's lifetime then you should know and accept that Animation Canceling is, seriously, a bona fide, by definition, mechanic exploit. Simply being able to cancel an animation itself is unintended. Or else, why even create an Animation if the game lets you skip it? "Weaving" is just the community's label for exploiting a combat bug that ZOS refuses to fix. Whether the reason is they can't, which now seems not true as this "issue" wouldn't be a thing, or they just don't want to anymore, mostly because of the uproar that is this thread from players that love fast paced combat.

Regardless, those of us saying that Animation Canceling is an exploit aren't lying. By definition it's a legitimate bug. It's just an officially sanctioned bug now. Even if it's allowed we won't forget or rewrite what it really is.

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

Lol at the amount of players here who think Light attack weaving being bugged is somehow going to help them be better at the game. ZOS listening to these people has utterly destroyed a good game in the course of about 2 years.

Listening to the insecure, toxic player base has been destroying this game for years.

Yes, that applies to the anti-animation cancellers who have been playing a game with systems they despised for 6+ years now and insist that what has been officially recognized as a game feature - regardless of when - is a bug.

[snip] They "accepted" it because they gave up trying to fix it. It was unintentional. Always has been. Always will be.

As a result, the majority of players have adopted it, raising the "ceiling," causing them to balance the game around these numbers (DPS) that shouldn't have been possible to begin with. Now newer players have this seemingly impossible mountain to climb.

Pro-animation-cancelling players need to get it through their head: you aren't special. Its not hard. The majority of the "floor" is made up of clueless solo players, or players with bad builds. Most players I help aren't even wearing sets, or have a bunch of otherwise useless skills on their bar. Biggest culprit is resource scaling. As soon as they wear better gear, and commit to either magicka or stamina they improve immensely.

[snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]

Who cares if it was unintentional? How is that relevant? You never change your mind? Re-evaluate something? Realize something may be better than how you originally conceived it? Should we remove all the Penicillin in the world and let people die because the manner in which that drug was developed was not intended or a mistake?

Balance the game around it? Have you even done the new questing zones? I can go AFK and eat a sandwich, come back and the Big Bad Evil Guy might have me at 50% health. That's not balanced around animation-canceling or players with a high ceiling lol. There's no mountain to climb there. It's not even worthy of being called a mole-hill. That's the vast majority of the content that the devs release.

I as a pro-animation-canceling player have never claimed I am special. And you're right, it's not hard, so nice way to contradict yourself about that impossible mountain to climb. Because I am not special, I am perfectly fine with the vast majority of ZOS's content being tailored to precisely these newer players you are so concerned about rather than me. It's fine, because a grand total of once a year, ZOS releases something that is catered to the best players. See, nobody's special, something for everyone and how everyone wants to play.