What have you done to weaving?

idk

Joy_Division wrote: »

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

Lol at the amount of players here who think Light attack weaving being bugged is somehow going to help them be better at the game. ZOS listening to these people has utterly destroyed a good game in the course of about 2 years.

Listening to the insecure, toxic player base has been destroying this game for years.

Yes, that applies to the anti-animation cancellers who have been playing a game with systems they despised for 6+ years now and insist that what has been officially recognized as a game feature - regardless of when - is a bug.

So true.

Further in the face of Zos saying the change that occurred with the recent update is not intended. That they are looking into it to resolve the problem, further confirms that weaving basic attacks as we have been able to do is is officially legit making any claim that it is a bug bogus.

Jaraal

Maybe they should change the tip then, to "Mash buttons until something happens!".

MercilessnVexed

Not just weaving. It is as if the lag is so bad now that you can't even block too.

VilniusNastavnik

Please do not fix this. I stopped playing at Murkmire as it became impossible to compete in end game content as every man [Snip] demanded 100K DPS which is borderline impossible for us Oceanic players who sit on 200-300 ping. Weaving was the straw that broke the camels back for me. I have been looking to return but with the mechanics still catering to low ping players..

[Edited for inappropriate content]

jonathanb16_ESO

VilniusNastavnik wrote: »

Please do not fix this. I stopped playing at Murkmire as it became impossible to compete in end game content as every man [Snip] demanded 100K DPS which is borderline impossible for us Oceanic players who sit on 200-300 ping. Weaving was the straw that broke the camels back for me. I have been looking to return but with the mechanics still catering to low ping players..

[Edited for inappropriate content]

As a EU player I have no problem hitting, the same dps number on PTS(with 200-30ms ping), as on EU(60-100ms ping). Specially weaving feels often better on PTS than on EU. The ping is noticable but, but you can easly compensat for that. I don't now how bad it is in pvp thought.

idk

VilniusNastavnik wrote: »

Please do not fix this. I stopped playing at Murkmire as it became impossible to compete in end game content as every man [Snip] demanded 100K DPS which is borderline impossible for us Oceanic players who sit on 200-300 ping. Weaving was the straw that broke the camels back for me. I have been looking to return but with the mechanics still catering to low ping players..

[Edited for inappropriate content]

Top groups will always require top DPS. There are raid groups for every play skill level. Further, I have known other Oceanic players that ran with very competitive raid groups.

RottenKimchi

I am so disappointed that today's upcoming hotfix will not include a fix corresponding to this bug.

I don't think ZOS is realizing how this bug is critical to pve players

eKsDee

VilniusNastavnik wrote: »

Please do not fix this. I stopped playing at Murkmire as it became impossible to compete in end game content as every man [Snip] demanded 100K DPS which is borderline impossible for us Oceanic players who sit on 200-300 ping. Weaving was the straw that broke the camels back for me. I have been looking to return but with the mechanics still catering to low ping players..

[Edited for inappropriate content]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMcQ6Ee1UUM

Video is of an Oceanic player who was getting ~250 ping the entire time. It is possible to get extremely close to 100k on an Oceanic connection, with practice.

Dunning_Kruger

VilniusNastavnik wrote: »

Please do not fix this. I stopped playing at Murkmire as it became impossible to compete in end game content as every man [Snip] demanded 100K DPS which is borderline impossible for us Oceanic players who sit on 200-300 ping. Weaving was the straw that broke the camels back for me. I have been looking to return but with the mechanics still catering to low ping players..

[Edited for inappropriate content]

DPS commies want equality of parse for uneven work. Smh my helmet!

idk

eKsDee wrote: »

VilniusNastavnik wrote: »

Please do not fix this. I stopped playing at Murkmire as it became impossible to compete in end game content as every man [Snip] demanded 100K DPS which is borderline impossible for us Oceanic players who sit on 200-300 ping. Weaving was the straw that broke the camels back for me. I have been looking to return but with the mechanics still catering to low ping players..

[Edited for inappropriate content]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMcQ6Ee1UUM

Video is of an Oceanic player who was getting ~250 ping the entire time. It is possible to get extremely close to 100k on an Oceanic connection, with practice.

+1 Good video.

Sephyr

karekiz wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

Kingslayer513 wrote: »

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

Lol at the amount of players here who think Light attack weaving being bugged is somehow going to help them be better at the game. ZOS listening to these people has utterly destroyed a good game in the course of about 2 years.

Listening to the insecure, toxic player base has been destroying this game for years.

Yes, that applies to the anti-animation cancellers who have been playing a game with systems they despised for 6+ years now and insist that what has been officially recognized as a game feature - regardless of when - is a bug.

Quit spreading propaganda to support your narrative. They "accepted" it because they gave up trying to fix it. It was unintentional. Always has been. Always will be.

I love when people who don't have a technical background push these exaggerated fictions. Light attacks are on a separate cooldown than abilities. That's it. This isn't some insurmountable debug task that ZOS can't puzzle out. It's a design choice. It would be trivial to put light attacks on the same 1s global cooldown as all the other abilities, which would remove light attack weaving. ZOS doesn't want to do that. Light attack weaving is intentional. End of story.

I think the only reason why they couldn't figure out 'how to get rid of it' is because they couldn't find a way to make combat flow effectively to the point that things were engaging and fun. People thinking that removing this would benefit the game just seem like they don't want to improve. A shame, really.

I doubt it has anything to do with that at all. LA / HA are a direct import of the Elder Scrolls series. Just in an MMO flavor. Its honestly probably developed for Single Player ES people to hop in and play a game similar to the game they played.

Not saying it hasn't become its own gameplay style, but I highly suspect it was made to make the game feel like a true elder scrolls game rather than another Classic MMO.

I think you misunderstand what I wrote. I didn't mention anything about an MMO environment, nor a TES environment. While it's pretty common in TES, other games like Morrowind didn't have quite the robust system many think it does given that you had to train to land your hits. While, yes, it's definitely got the more Skyrim edge, when taking all that out of context in any modern action RPG - when you take the ability to weave out of the equation, the game isn't as tactile, fun, or engaging. It's nothing to do with MMO or TES culture, but gaming combat and it's evolution away from turn based combat. So while yes, you're correct, my point still stands. Unless you know of an alternative they could put in that would A) have the same feel and B ) be fun and engaging without interrupting the flow of combat.

*Cyrodiil non-applicable because cooldowns.

pma_pacifier

Can someone enlighten me?

Doing light attack followed by a skill (aka weaving?), followed by a light attack as a combo or sequence of attacks.. is called "animation canceling?" where this term implies a negative connotation or exploit that one is doing it too fast? or is exploiting?

Is this an exploit? Why are people saying it is? What is the actual expected outcome/fix?

Or are people just plain mixing up weaving/rotations for "animation canceling".. the ones that used to exist i.e. block canceling?

BohnT2

pma_pacifier wrote: »

Can someone enlighten me?

Doing light attack followed by a skill (aka weaving?), followed by a light attack as a combo or sequence of attacks.. is called "animation canceling?" where this term implies a negative connotation or exploit that one is doing it too fast? or is exploiting?

Is this an exploit? Why are people saying it is? What is the actual expected outcome/fix?

Or are people just plain mixing up weaving/rotations for "animation canceling".. the ones that used to exist i.e. block canceling?

No it's not an exploit but there has been a rather vocal group on the forums who have been claiming this despite the devs confirming that it is not an exploit.

Rikumaru

Nyladreas wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Vlad9425 wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

Vlad9425 wrote: »

asuitandtyb14_ESO wrote: »

Nice! I might actually play the game now if this is intended.

Have fun playing on your own

Pretty damn sure there have always been more posts and requests to "nerf" animation cancelling over the years, than there were to support it.

So... not really.

Pretty damn sure bad players want everything that kills them nerfed or removed so we shouldn’t be catering to these people.

Animation Canceling is a Bug, an exploit and if you rely an exploit to get kills then do you even have any actual skills?

😂😂😂 This made me laugh!

The poster's actually right. And I say that as a long time PvPer that fully utilities/utilized cancelling, including bash, swap, dodge, block to the most disgusting level.

It's an exploit whether you like (use) it or not. Just cause it works, we use it and ZOS accepted it, doesn't make it right.

Once again, this doesn't mean I support the removal of it in any way. Just being flipping honest with myself here. As should you.

How is it an exploit if it has been acknowledged by the developers of the game as a mechanic?

You might not like it, but it doesn't fit the criteria to be an exploit.

I see why you would try to challenge that argument since, according to your forum account, you haven't been around back then.

It's because ZOS themselves admitted in the past that it was an unintended and unexpected result of their coding, and defacto an exploit.

They never intended for it to be a mechanic, they've simply accepted it and integrated it into the game.

Mechanically and practically it's still an exploit. ZOS just doesn't treat it as such. It's been officially stated one way or another before on numerous occasions.

And sometimes.... things change.

What does someone's join date got anything to do with the point they are making? Yes it was an unintended mechanic, but it's one that has been used throughout the game's history. And as you point out ZOS has integrated it into their game, even having a tutorial step during the level process explain weaving. You can't argue that it's an exploit after ZOS has done all of that surely?

eKsDee

pma_pacifier wrote: »

Can someone enlighten me?

Doing light attack followed by a skill (aka weaving?), followed by a light attack as a combo or sequence of attacks.. is called "animation canceling?" where this term implies a negative connotation or exploit that one is doing it too fast? or is exploiting?

Is this an exploit? Why are people saying it is? What is the actual expected outcome/fix?

Or are people just plain mixing up weaving/rotations for "animation canceling".. the ones that used to exist i.e. block canceling?

Animation cancelling is just any act of cancelling the animation of one action (as well as the action itself, though the action itself has typically already been performed, hence leaving the rest of the animation as the only thing being cancelled) with another action. Any time you cast a skill then immediately block, dodge or bash, you've cancelled the animation of the skill with the block/dodge/bash.

Weaving is one particular form of animation cancelling, where you light/heavy attack then immediately follow with a skill cast, in which case the animation of the light/heavy attack is cancelled by the skill cast. Light/heavy attacks and skills are on separate cooldowns, which allow you to weave light/heavy attacks inbetween skill casts, using the skill casts to cancel the animation of the light/heavy attacks, hence why it is called weaving.

Rotations are just a particular sequence of skill casts in which skill casts are ordered in a particular way to maximise the effectiveness of each skill in the sequence. They're very common in MMO's due to the ability-based nature of their combat systems, and have nothing to do with animation cancelling themselves, it just so happens that weaving is considered to be a "skill cast" (really just an action) within the rotation, and so rotations in ESO often incorporate animation cancelling via weaving.

Animation cancelling itself absolutely is intended, as it's not something that just naturally emerges as an unintended behaviour, the combat system had to be specifically designed to allow players to cancel actions. What wasn't intended, or rather anticipated, was the deliberate usage of animation cancelling to maximise effectiveness in combat.

Zenimax was surprised that players were able to learn exactly how actions work within the combat system, and figure out how to exploit that to maximise effectiveness in combat. They seemed to like the influence it gave skilled players, however, and so officially endorsed it as a feature, and even started balancing around it (see all the sets and skills that have effects that depend on constant usage of light/heavy attacks).

Because of this, it really can't be considered an exploit in the cheating way, since it is an officially endorsed feature that the game is being balanced around, and so anybody claiming that is wrong, and is not only disagreeing Zenimax's word, but Zenimax's actions in terms of balancing, too.

Grandchamp1989

Did the maintanence fix the light attack problem?

Jaimeh

Please don't turn the thread into an animation cancelling debate. This is for an issue that arose with the Markarth release, and it's breaking down any ranged playstyle that involves light attacks, because it made it so you can't cast a skill until a LA has landed. Of course it impacts fast rotations more, but nevertheless it's a combat breaking bug that needs to be fixed as soon as possible. So please don't side-track the thread, and make it more difficult for devs to gain information.

LadyNalcarya

VilniusNastavnik wrote: »

Please do not fix this. I stopped playing at Murkmire as it became impossible to compete in end game content as every man and their left nut demanded 100K DPS which is borderline impossible for us Oceanic players who sit on 200-300 ping. Weaving was the straw that broke the camels back for me. I have been looking to return but with the mechanics still catering to low ping players..

Even if you could pull 100k, you still wouldn't be invited to those guilds because they usually require a lot of experience. Super high requirements typically mean that they're recruiting for things like nodeath+speed+hm in dlc trials, and it's not something you would do without prior experience.
There's plenty of guilds that only require 60-70k dps on a trial dummy (easily doable even with high ping). You can complete pretty much everything (except things like trial trifestas) with this kind of dps if the group is well-organized and willing to practice.

Superkraut

Jaimeh wrote: »

Please don't turn the thread into an animation cancelling debate. This is for an issue that arose with the Markarth release, and it's breaking down any ranged playstyle that involves light attacks, because it made it so you can't cast a skill until a LA has landed. Of course it impacts fast rotations more, but nevertheless it's a combat breaking bug that needs to be fixed as soon as possible. So please don't side-track the thread, and make it more difficult for devs to gain information.

Thank you man. Have an Awesome for this

Vildebill

This is probably the worst update I've ever played. Game feels like I'm playing with 500 ping constantly. Hope they fix it very soon because it isn't even remotely fun playing now.

LinearParadox

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Did the maintanence fix the light attack problem?

Not even close. Just finished DPSing vMGF and my heavy attacks didn't fire (or were invisible and impossible to confirm if firing) roughly half the time. Skills also didn't fire, or didn't show firing. Light attacks played the animation sometimes without showing the projectile. Was absolutely miserable.

As per usual; things were better and/or less buggy before their "fix" than after.

Ascrom

It's really too bad. No one want run end game pve content, like veteran trials.

Apox

zos has been looking for a way to boot mag builds from the meta for a while, they finally found it lol. this bug doesnt really effect stam builds at all, just mag

Stinkyremy

BohnT2 wrote: »

it's completely off and feels ridicouly broken.

DFon't you mean they finally fixed it!???
Light attack animation cancelling ect is an unintende bug of the engine that they ran with and then even adde3d it to the mechanics of the game.
It is a bug in itself.

sarahthes

Does it matter if it started as a bug when it was embraced and new mechanics and skillsets designed around it at a later date?

In any case. Even if you remove LA weaving from the game, my DPS is still going to be higher than 90% of players because I know how to use specific sets, enchant and trait them appropriately. My skill bars are optimized for doing damage. I use the appropriate food for my class and I keep potions up 100% of the time. I prebuff before fights. I don't allow dots to fall off. Even my CP is optimized for each specific raid. You'd have to make it so optimizing wasn't an option and all skills and sets provided the exact same damage for me to not be a stronger dps than 90% of players.

Removing LA weaving would not raise the skill floor, which is what I think those who advocate for its removal actually want. It would just make good players do less damage. How does that help weaker players get better?

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Day 1. Deconstructed Approx 2500 items (fingers crossed they didnt screw it up).

Day 2. Farmed Ring of Pale Order. Went to VMA to test it. HOLY WHAT THE ACTUAL.... Went back to a target Dummy to see if maybe just a bad instance. Every other LA weave seems to do a mini rubber band action. The speed is also not consistent so very awkward to use visual queues for timing. Unplayable IMO.

Day 3. Do I even bother to log in?

pink_panther

Linaleah wrote: »

Dunning_Kruger wrote: »

Imagine wanting to kill a core mechanic of the game because you are actually just bad at the game and want to lower the ceilings for how terrible you are. How selfish. You will be bad regardless, don’t ruin the game for the rest of us. Killing light weaving is the equivalent of wow adding lfr. But worse.

your name is ironic.

because LFR in WoW is what allowed them to design as much raid content and with as many difficulties as they do. because it JUSTIFIED creation of raid content, by making it more accessible.

also.. funny thing about wow. the skill gap in that game is MUCH lower. most of the gap comes from gear and gear can be farmed. because... wow does NOT have weaving akin to ESO. wow has auto attacks. and when you cancel animation to move out of bad, etc? you lose all of the damage from unfired attack, so you have to chose.

YOU, or people like YOU are ruining the game for the rest of is rather then the other way around.

Ruining the Game for who?

[snip]

Weaving is so easy don't get why people have trouble with it. Just get the GCD Bar and Light Attack Helper addon and learn it.... Takes 5 min to Install and maybe 10 to let it sink into muscle memory....

The game would be ultra boring without it. [snip]

You don't even need to weave for normal content. Why not play that?

[edited for baiting]

hashsnob

This thread though... lol

Weaving is an exploit! How can you expect me to hit one button, then another? Like thats crazy, thats just too much... I can only concentrate on one button at a time. I know if they fix this I will be good and can start doing vet trials.

DMuehlhausen

BohnT2 wrote: »

Since the patch dropped you can no longer cancel light attacks, it's completely off and feels ridicouly broken.
Please fix this as fast as possible

I mean technically that is how it's suppose to work, and they said Animation Cancelling was never intended. That being said they have said they are aware of it and are fixing it.

Tannus15

VilniusNastavnik wrote: »

Please do not fix this. I stopped playing at Murkmire as it became impossible to compete in end game content as every man [Snip] demanded 100K DPS which is borderline impossible for us Oceanic players who sit on 200-300 ping. Weaving was the straw that broke the camels back for me. I have been looking to return but with the mechanics still catering to low ping players..

[Edited for inappropriate content]

I'm in Melbourne.



Stop blaming your latency. My guild is full of oceanic players with griffon heart, immortal redeemer, TTT, vet DLC trifectas.