This, now this works in normals if the player know how to play as in can block and has decent dps.If I queue as a dps and there's a fake tank, I expect them to taunt bosses and not die. This usually isn't the case though and that's where the problem lies.
I main a tank but also play as a dps on two alts. What gets me more than fake tanking is when one dps keeps running ahead of the group because they are in a hurry. This creates a really crappy situation for an actual tank and other members in the group. If you have an actual tank in the group let them control the room. More often than not that person running ahead is the one dying the most.
I've gotten to the point where I ask in my guild to run random normals vs a random queue.
Below is a possible solution for this I've been suggesting for a while now.
First, let's list some things we already know ZOS does/monitors:
- ZOS monitors dungeon runs: when they nerfed several vDLC dungeons, they explicitly said in the Patch Notes that they monitor dungeon completion rates and even know on which bosses most group fails. So there is already a system that records dungeon runs.
- ZOS knows which skills people use: when they addressed the less used morphs, the patch notes explicitly said that ZOS monitors which skills/morphs people use in dungeons. We can also see from ESO Logs that they already can gather very detailed information from what players actually did.
- ZOS already has systems to temporarily prevent people from using game systems: the Social Ban is a great example of a system that blocks players using certain parts of the game when they abuse it. Also, if you abandon a Battleground, you are prevented from queuing again for a certain time.
- ZOS already has Report Player and Vote to Kick functions in place: self-explanatory, we've all used that at lease once.
So, considering all those things that are already in game, my proposed solution to the fake tanking problem is as follows:
Implement a Vote to Kick or, better yet, a Report Player option called fake role or something similar. When a player gets kicked/reported for fake role, a report is generated using the systems listed above, with the skills the player had equipped and how many times they used it. I think Report Player is better because a lot of times fake tanks queue with someone else that blocks the Vote to Kick options.
If someone is reported for take tank and the system sees the person had no taunt / didn't use taunt enough times, they get a temporary ban from using Activity Finder. Repeat offenders get increasing penalties up to a full month.
Get reported a few times and the system validated? 24 hours ban from AF.
Got reported again and the system validated? 48 hours ban from AF.
Got reported yet again and the system again confirmed the abuse? 72 hours ban from AF.
Then if they keep doing it, just slap one, two weeks ban.
This needs to be done. With the increase in transmute stones from Random Dungeons and Pledges, the plague of fake tanking will get even worst next patch.
EDIT: And btw, fake tanking doesn't just affect healers and DPS trying to queue. Just yesterday I was trying to do a pledge with my tank and got put in a half-finished run. The group had a fake tank and kicked them because they couldn't pass a boss. Since I think people should always kick fake tanks, I helped them finish even though it wouldn't complete my pledge since they had already killed one of the bosses. So, the fake tank wasted their time and my time. But it goes to show that fake tanking affects everyone, even proper tanks (this happens about once a week for me when I'm regularly tanking pledges)
Below is a possible solution for this I've been suggesting for a while now.
First, let's list some things we already know ZOS does/monitors:
- ZOS monitors dungeon runs: when they nerfed several vDLC dungeons, they explicitly said in the Patch Notes that they monitor dungeon completion rates and even know on which bosses most group fails. So there is already a system that records dungeon runs.
- ZOS knows which skills people use: when they addressed the less used morphs, the patch notes explicitly said that ZOS monitors which skills/morphs people use in dungeons. We can also see from ESO Logs that they already can gather very detailed information from what players actually did.
- ZOS already has systems to temporarily prevent people from using game systems: the Social Ban is a great example of a system that blocks players using certain parts of the game when they abuse it. Also, if you abandon a Battleground, you are prevented from queuing again for a certain time.
- ZOS already has Report Player and Vote to Kick functions in place: self-explanatory, we've all used that at lease once.
So, considering all those things that are already in game, my proposed solution to the fake tanking problem is as follows:
Implement a Vote to Kick or, better yet, a Report Player option called fake role or something similar. When a player gets kicked/reported for fake role, a report is generated using the systems listed above, with the skills the player had equipped and how many times they used it. I think Report Player is better because a lot of times fake tanks queue with someone else that blocks the Vote to Kick options.
If someone is reported for take tank and the system sees the person had no taunt / didn't use taunt enough times, they get a temporary ban from using Activity Finder. Repeat offenders get increasing penalties up to a full month.
Get reported a few times and the system validated? 24 hours ban from AF.
Got reported again and the system validated? 48 hours ban from AF.
Got reported yet again and the system again confirmed the abuse? 72 hours ban from AF.
Then if they keep doing it, just slap one, two weeks ban.
This needs to be done. With the increase in transmute stones from Random Dungeons and Pledges, the plague of fake tanking will get even worst next patch.
EDIT: And btw, fake tanking doesn't just affect healers and DPS trying to queue. Just yesterday I was trying to do a pledge with my tank and got put in a half-finished run. The group had a fake tank and kicked them because they couldn't pass a boss. Since I think people should always kick fake tanks, I helped them finish even though it wouldn't complete my pledge since they had already killed one of the bosses. So, the fake tank wasted their time and my time. But it goes to show that fake tanking affects everyone, even proper tanks (this happens about once a week for me when I'm regularly tanking pledges)
Lmao. And what stops people from abusing the reporting system? When I'm the tank and make remark about someone's 11k hp or try to tell them mechanics or complain about low dps etc then some of the snowflakes may report me as payback. Or they may report me simply because they dont understand the game or mechs. You have no idea how noob some pugs can be. If there was some fake role reporting system currently, then I would probably be banned by now lol. Few examples: I recently tanked vMHK, first boss pinned me as per mech, no one interrupted so I got 1 shot. Immediately I got laughed at by some cp600ish dps. We wiped. 2nd try same thing, I told them what to do but they ignored and I got some serious hate after another wipe. Same thing happened in vFV first boss. Also some 10k dps wanted to kick me from vBRF before last boss. There are 3 adds before the boss comes, 1 minotaur pins 2 ppl and others have to interrupt. I was the one pinned every time and others didn't interrupt, the dps who died because of that blamed me for being a bad tank and said they need new one if they wanna clear it lol. All of in these examples would have reported me. I have trifecta achievements for almost all vet dlcs. I also change gear and skills sometimes in dungeon as needed to better support group at specific fights. If this was made impossible and some inexperienced toxic noobs were able to report me every time they didn't like something then I would stop using gf and I'm sure many other real tanks aswell.
I only fake tank normals and non dlc vets, I would never take fake to vet dlc.
People who point fingers should look in the mirror.
Implementing any sort of gear/skill check, restricting gear swaps, reporting and banning would have the opposite effect. Many fake tanks would stop indeed but also alot of real ones and the result would be double or tripled queue times.
Below is a possible solution for this I've been suggesting for a while now.
First, let's list some things we already know ZOS does/monitors:
- ZOS monitors dungeon runs: when they nerfed several vDLC dungeons, they explicitly said in the Patch Notes that they monitor dungeon completion rates and even know on which bosses most group fails. So there is already a system that records dungeon runs.
- ZOS knows which skills people use: when they addressed the less used morphs, the patch notes explicitly said that ZOS monitors which skills/morphs people use in dungeons. We can also see from ESO Logs that they already can gather very detailed information from what players actually did.
- ZOS already has systems to temporarily prevent people from using game systems: the Social Ban is a great example of a system that blocks players using certain parts of the game when they abuse it. Also, if you abandon a Battleground, you are prevented from queuing again for a certain time.
- ZOS already has Report Player and Vote to Kick functions in place: self-explanatory, we've all used that at lease once.
So, considering all those things that are already in game, my proposed solution to the fake tanking problem is as follows:
Implement a Vote to Kick or, better yet, a Report Player option called fake role or something similar. When a player gets kicked/reported for fake role, a report is generated using the systems listed above, with the skills the player had equipped and how many times they used it. I think Report Player is better because a lot of times fake tanks queue with someone else that blocks the Vote to Kick options.
If someone is reported for take tank and the system sees the person had no taunt / didn't use taunt enough times, they get a temporary ban from using Activity Finder. Repeat offenders get increasing penalties up to a full month.
Get reported a few times and the system validated? 24 hours ban from AF.
Got reported again and the system validated? 48 hours ban from AF.
Got reported yet again and the system again confirmed the abuse? 72 hours ban from AF.
Then if they keep doing it, just slap one, two weeks ban.
This needs to be done. With the increase in transmute stones from Random Dungeons and Pledges, the plague of fake tanking will get even worst next patch.
EDIT: And btw, fake tanking doesn't just affect healers and DPS trying to queue. Just yesterday I was trying to do a pledge with my tank and got put in a half-finished run. The group had a fake tank and kicked them because they couldn't pass a boss. Since I think people should always kick fake tanks, I helped them finish even though it wouldn't complete my pledge since they had already killed one of the bosses. So, the fake tank wasted their time and my time. But it goes to show that fake tanking affects everyone, even proper tanks (this happens about once a week for me when I'm regularly tanking pledges)
Lmao. And what stops people from abusing the reporting system? When I'm the tank and make remark about someone's 11k hp or try to tell them mechanics or complain about low dps etc then some of the snowflakes may report me as payback. Or they may report me simply because they dont understand the game or mechs. You have no idea how noob some pugs can be. If there was some fake role reporting system currently, then I would probably be banned by now lol. Few examples: I recently tanked vMHK, first boss pinned me as per mech, no one interrupted so I got 1 shot. Immediately I got laughed at by some cp600ish dps. We wiped. 2nd try same thing, I told them what to do but they ignored and I got some serious hate after another wipe. Same thing happened in vFV first boss. Also some 10k dps wanted to kick me from vBRF before last boss. There are 3 adds before the boss comes, 1 minotaur pins 2 ppl and others have to interrupt. I was the one pinned every time and others didn't interrupt, the dps who died because of that blamed me for being a bad tank and said they need new one if they wanna clear it lol. All of in these examples would have reported me. I have trifecta achievements for almost all vet dlcs. I also change gear and skills sometimes in dungeon as needed to better support group at specific fights. If this was made impossible and some inexperienced toxic noobs were able to report me every time they didn't like something then I would stop using gf and I'm sure many other real tanks aswell.
I only fake tank normals and non dlc vets, I would never take fake to vet dlc.
People who point fingers should look in the mirror.
Implementing any sort of gear/skill check, restricting gear swaps, reporting and banning would have the opposite effect. Many fake tanks would stop indeed but also alot of real ones and the result would be double or tripled queue times.
When you fake tank you are also abusing the system. Abuse for abuse, I'd rather have people abusing the report then abusing the group finder, because ZOS probably already knows how to deal with Report abuse from all those salty PvPers that are sore losers and report people without cause.
And, again, you didn't read what I suggested fully.
If someone reports you and you have a taunt and uses it, it can be even automatically dismissed. It is very easy to see, with all the data ZOS already has from dungeon runs, if someone is doing a fake report.
And we already talked a million times in this thread how fake tanking is not a problem just on normal or base game dungeons. Since this thread was created, I, alone, got 3 fake tanks in vDLC Pledges that made impossible for my group to progress and resulted in 3 of us having to get the GF penalty AND wait again in queue to try another shot at completing it.
Anyway, I just think it is great all those recurrent fake tanks like you are coming here and admitting all this. All of you are actually helping us make our case that something must be done.
The more you all admit you do it, admit you don't care that it affects other people and admit you won't stop doing it, the easier it is for ZOS to see that it needs to change.
Honestly, this thread has been great. It is not always that people that abuse the system admit so openly like this that they do it and don't intend to stop.
@Milli_Rabbit thanks for creating this thread! It was great to have a good discussion and show why we need changes to stop fake tanking.
Okay, so they can just slot a Taunt that they use once.If someone reports you and you have a taunt and uses it, it can be even automatically dismissed. It is very easy to see, with all the data ZOS already has from dungeon runs, if someone is doing a fake report.
Nah, they're just either dismissing or invalidating your point(s).Anyway, I just think it is great all those recurrent fake tanks like you are coming here and admitting all this. All of you are actually helping us make our case that something must be done.
They're "admitting" what the system permits them to do, and the system already has stipulations which allow for a "group democracy". You're just lobbying for a situation that you personally don't like.The more you all admit you do it, admit you don't care that it affects other people and admit you won't stop doing it, the easier it is for ZOS to see that it needs to change.
It's not abuse until ZOS explicitly says that it is.Honestly, this thread has been great. It is not always that people that abuse the system admit so openly like this that they do it and don't intend to stop.
Below is a possible solution for this I've been suggesting for a while now.
First, let's list some things we already know ZOS does/monitors:
- ZOS monitors dungeon runs: when they nerfed several vDLC dungeons, they explicitly said in the Patch Notes that they monitor dungeon completion rates and even know on which bosses most group fails. So there is already a system that records dungeon runs.
- ZOS knows which skills people use: when they addressed the less used morphs, the patch notes explicitly said that ZOS monitors which skills/morphs people use in dungeons. We can also see from ESO Logs that they already can gather very detailed information from what players actually did.
- ZOS already has systems to temporarily prevent people from using game systems: the Social Ban is a great example of a system that blocks players using certain parts of the game when they abuse it. Also, if you abandon a Battleground, you are prevented from queuing again for a certain time.
- ZOS already has Report Player and Vote to Kick functions in place: self-explanatory, we've all used that at lease once.
So, considering all those things that are already in game, my proposed solution to the fake tanking problem is as follows:
Implement a Vote to Kick or, better yet, a Report Player option called fake role or something similar. When a player gets kicked/reported for fake role, a report is generated using the systems listed above, with the skills the player had equipped and how many times they used it. I think Report Player is better because a lot of times fake tanks queue with someone else that blocks the Vote to Kick options.
If someone is reported for take tank and the system sees the person had no taunt / didn't use taunt enough times, they get a temporary ban from using Activity Finder. Repeat offenders get increasing penalties up to a full month.
Get reported a few times and the system validated? 24 hours ban from AF.
Got reported again and the system validated? 48 hours ban from AF.
Got reported yet again and the system again confirmed the abuse? 72 hours ban from AF.
Then if they keep doing it, just slap one, two weeks ban.
This needs to be done. With the increase in transmute stones from Random Dungeons and Pledges, the plague of fake tanking will get even worst next patch.
EDIT: And btw, fake tanking doesn't just affect healers and DPS trying to queue. Just yesterday I was trying to do a pledge with my tank and got put in a half-finished run. The group had a fake tank and kicked them because they couldn't pass a boss. Since I think people should always kick fake tanks, I helped them finish even though it wouldn't complete my pledge since they had already killed one of the bosses. So, the fake tank wasted their time and my time. But it goes to show that fake tanking affects everyone, even proper tanks (this happens about once a week for me when I'm regularly tanking pledges)
Lmao. And what stops people from abusing the reporting system? When I'm the tank and make remark about someone's 11k hp or try to tell them mechanics or complain about low dps etc then some of the snowflakes may report me as payback. Or they may report me simply because they dont understand the game or mechs. You have no idea how noob some pugs can be. If there was some fake role reporting system currently, then I would probably be banned by now lol. Few examples: I recently tanked vMHK, first boss pinned me as per mech, no one interrupted so I got 1 shot. Immediately I got laughed at by some cp600ish dps. We wiped. 2nd try same thing, I told them what to do but they ignored and I got some serious hate after another wipe. Same thing happened in vFV first boss. Also some 10k dps wanted to kick me from vBRF before last boss. There are 3 adds before the boss comes, 1 minotaur pins 2 ppl and others have to interrupt. I was the one pinned every time and others didn't interrupt, the dps who died because of that blamed me for being a bad tank and said they need new one if they wanna clear it lol. All of in these examples would have reported me. I have trifecta achievements for almost all vet dlcs. I also change gear and skills sometimes in dungeon as needed to better support group at specific fights. If this was made impossible and some inexperienced toxic noobs were able to report me every time they didn't like something then I would stop using gf and I'm sure many other real tanks aswell.
I only fake tank normals and non dlc vets, I would never take fake to vet dlc.
People who point fingers should look in the mirror.
Implementing any sort of gear/skill check, restricting gear swaps, reporting and banning would have the opposite effect. Many fake tanks would stop indeed but also alot of real ones and the result would be double or tripled queue times.
When you fake tank you are also abusing the system. Abuse for abuse, I'd rather have people abusing the report then abusing the group finder, because ZOS probably already knows how to deal with Report abuse from all those salty PvPers that are sore losers and report people without cause.
And, again, you didn't read what I suggested fully.
If someone reports you and you have a taunt and uses it, it can be even automatically dismissed. It is very easy to see, with all the data ZOS already has from dungeon runs, if someone is doing a fake report.
And we already talked a million times in this thread how fake tanking is not a problem just on normal or base game dungeons. Since this thread was created, I, alone, got 3 fake tanks in vDLC Pledges that made impossible for my group to progress and resulted in 3 of us having to get the GF penalty AND wait again in queue to try another shot at completing it.
Anyway, I just think it is great all those recurrent fake tanks like you are coming here and admitting all this. All of you are actually helping us make our case that something must be done.
The more you all admit you do it, admit you don't care that it affects other people and admit you won't stop doing it, the easier it is for ZOS to see that it needs to change.
Honestly, this thread has been great. It is not always that people that abuse the system admit so openly like this that they do it and don't intend to stop.
@Milli_Rabbit thanks for creating this thread! It was great to have a good discussion and show why we need changes to stop fake tanking.
Who do you suggest would handle all them reports? Do you realize how many dungeons are done every hour on every platform and server. They would have to hire several full time workers just to police dungeon reporting lol. They cant even handle current reports about bots, cheaters, exploiters etc. There are several threads where ppl complain that they reported someone for scamming or cheating and they still keep running into them. Cyrodiil is also full of cheaters/exploiters lol. Dungeon reporting would increase massive load because of salty, toxic, elitists, drama queens, noobs, mentally ill etc people in this game lmao.
If you're that sensitive then try to form your own group, play with the people you know. GF is always a bit of a gamble and always will be. Fake roles are not the only problem. I've seen more groups fail and disband because of incompetent players than fake roles. Its great that you wanna get rid of faking but what's next, we gonna start reporting bad players and ban them too?
Just speaking hypothetically here, but if I were a program manager for ESO or in any level of senior development and leadership, I'd consider everything about your proposal a complete waste of funding.Have you ever worked with software? And data?
It is very easy to set some automated analysis and just tune it to eliminate false positives. I know, I do it every single day in my job. It is not gaming, but it is the same principle. It is a very trivial thing for someone to take a few dozen sets of data with a real tank and a fake tank and see the pattern.
And even if a fake tank needs to use taunt a few times to "skip" the check, it is already a win. We are already decreasing the problem by forcing those selfish people to at least start doing what they are supposed to do. I'd call it a win.
There is a big difference between bad players and malicious players.
Bad players are a part of random groups. Players that intentionally cheat the system are not. We are only trying to address the second problem here.
Okay, so they can just slot a Taunt that they use once.If someone reports you and you have a taunt and uses it, it can be even automatically dismissed. It is very easy to see, with all the data ZOS already has from dungeon runs, if someone is doing a fake report.
Report invalidated. Try again?Nah, they're just either dismissing or invalidating your point(s).Anyway, I just think it is great all those recurrent fake tanks like you are coming here and admitting all this. All of you are actually helping us make our case that something must be done.They're "admitting" what the system permits them to do, and the system already has stipulations which allow for a "group democracy". You're just lobbying for a situation that you personally don't like.The more you all admit you do it, admit you don't care that it affects other people and admit you won't stop doing it, the easier it is for ZOS to see that it needs to change.
Well, I'm sure there are many players who don't agree with you. That doesn't make them "guilty" of anything.It's not abuse until ZOS explicitly says that it is.Honestly, this thread has been great. It is not always that people that abuse the system admit so openly like this that they do it and don't intend to stop.
All your posturing will not change that fact.
Anyone can queue as a "Tank" role, and then perform however they want.
Your approval of their tanking is not required.
If the group holds a majority, they can vote to kick if they want.
Even if they do, it will only burden the players who voted, not the individual who was kicked.
They'll just requeue.
Just speaking hypothetically here, but if I were a program manager for ESO or in any level of senior development and leadership, I'd consider everything about your proposal a complete waste of funding.Have you ever worked with software? And data?
It is very easy to set some automated analysis and just tune it to eliminate false positives. I know, I do it every single day in my job. It is not gaming, but it is the same principle. It is a very trivial thing for someone to take a few dozen sets of data with a real tank and a fake tank and see the pattern.
And even if a fake tank needs to use taunt a few times to "skip" the check, it is already a win. We are already decreasing the problem by forcing those selfish people to at least start doing what they are supposed to do. I'd call it a win.
There is a big difference between bad players and malicious players.
Bad players are a part of random groups. Players that intentionally cheat the system are not. We are only trying to address the second problem here.
Especially considering there are already existing systems which let players address and respond to these situations, such as the aforementioned vote-kicking option, and others previously mentioned in this thread.
Except that it isn't a violation.On your other point, I'll say it one more time: the whole point of this thread is for ZOS to explicit address this as a violation.
All that is being "Exposed" here is the disgruntlement of a group of players who are dissatisfied with the existing tools that are already built into the game to address these situations.You keep saying that what we are exposing here won't change the fact but this is exactly our goal. You keep being selfish and inconsiderate and abusing the system. We'll keep bringing the issue to ZOS' attention. I can't wait to read your thread complaining you can't use group finder when they do.
Except that you won't because I won't.I can't wait to read your thread complaining you can't use group finder when they do.
I already do and I already do and yet the problem persists.
(you are talking to a master kiter)
Except that it isn't a violation.On your other point, I'll say it one more time: the whole point of this thread is for ZOS to explicit address this as a violation.
That is your opinion.
I'm not in disagreement that the situation isn't "optimal" for all participants, but there are no "violations" occurring here.All that is being "Exposed" here is the disgruntlement of a group of players who are dissatisfied with the existing tools that are already built into the game to address these situations.You keep saying that what we are exposing here won't change the fact but this is exactly our goal. You keep being selfish and inconsiderate and abusing the system. We'll keep bringing the issue to ZOS' attention. I can't wait to read your thread complaining you can't use group finder when they do.Except that you won't because I won't.I can't wait to read your thread complaining you can't use group finder when they do.
I don't have any issue with Fake Tanks, as it's not a problem that affects me, or many others.
I also don't have issue with "Fake Tanking", since again it's not a problem that affects me, or many others.
What I'm lobbying against is the punishment of players who are not breaking any existing rules or ZOS terms of service, which is precisely what your stance has advocated for. The available solutions for these situations already exist. There is no need for further agitation or disruption of an already functional system.
We don't always get what we want out of every situation.
Welcome to MMO's Life.
You pug vet dlc dungeons as a tank? You sir, I applaud. I did it once or twice (vDoM and vBRF), I made a promise to myself that I'd never waste my time like that again. I agree with you regarding a "report system" being a bad idea. Many times I've been blamed when last boss in vet Arx Corinium chased a random person. Only ZoS can handle a system to stop fake tanks, that power should not be given to the community.Few examples: I recently tanked vMHK, first boss pinned me as per mech, no one interrupted so I got 1 shot. Immediately I got laughed at by some cp600ish dps. We wiped. 2nd try same thing, I told them what to do but they ignored and I got some serious hate after another wipe. Same thing happened in vFV first boss. Also some 10k dps wanted to kick me from vBRF before last boss. There are 3 adds before the boss comes, 1 minotaur pins 2 ppl and others have to interrupt. I was the one pinned every time and others didn't interrupt, the dps who died because of that blamed me for being a bad tank and said they need new one if they wanna clear it lol.
Personally I don't have any issues with fake tanks either. I've two 90k+ DDs (magsorc and magblade) with high self heals / shields that it wouldn't matter at all if a boss decide to focus me. I'd just keep them in place and burn them down, and occasional dodging of the heavies.I don't have any issue with Fake Tanks, as it's not a problem that affects me, or many others.
I also don't have issue with "Fake Tanking", since again it's not a problem that affects me, or many others.
How do you define "Widespread"?Personally, I'm just going to start reporting people that fake tank, specially in vet dungeons, and I'll let ZOS deal with it. Vote to Kick is very obviously not effective or this issue wouldn't be as widespread as it it now.
Fake tanking abusing ? Can i have button - fake gamer that play bad abusing ?
Seriosly - some DD solo content on vet - because they are veterans.
Do not go vet - if you are not veterans !!!
Or I can not understand it this problem on normal ? Is fake tanking problem for normals ??? Is it really possible to have any problems on normal ?
Fake tanking abusing ? Can i have button - fake gamer that play bad abusing ?
Seriosly - some DD solo content on vet - because they are veterans.
Do not go vet - if you are not veterans !!!
Or I can not understand it this problem on normal ? Is fake tanking problem for normals ??? Is it really possible to have any problems on normal ?
This entire thread is full of examples of how fake tanking is a problem in normal so I feel like saying "is it really possible to have any problems on normal" is pretty disingenuous, particularly considering there's an example of the kinds of problems that happen on normal from nMHK only two posts above yours.
Just because experienced players don't have an issue with it doesn't mean it isn't a problem for new and inexperienced players.
There needs to be a solution against fake tanks, but I do agree with them... having players do this themselves, even with a report function, never works out well! And it would mean more work for ZOS.
The best solution remains placing hard requirements on the groupfinder role(s), to be able to queue as that role. And no gear/skill/CP-swapping in dungeons.
Tanking in ESO isn't difficult. There are certain requirements for tanks that aren't there for other roles: knowing the map, knowing the boss mechanics, etc. Those requirements might be intimidating, but they don't make tanking difficult. I've been tanking in MMOs since early 2005, and I've been tanking in many different MMOs, and some of those (WoW, etc) at a very high level. While I did enjoy tanking in some of those MMOs, I do not enjoy tanking in ESO, even though I still do it. The reason that I don't enjoy tanking in ESO is that outside of trials and a few veteran DLC dungeons, it's not really required. There are no defensive cooldowns that you have to juggle and the healer isn't running out of resources.
I can build a bruiser (tank/DPS hybrid) and I can tank just as well as if I ran a full tank setup, while dealing a lot more damage (20-30K). One of my most efficient tanks when it comes to clearing dungeons, is my (lightning themed) Altmer Sorcerer with Stormfist/Thunderbug/Overwhelming Surge (5h - 1m - 1l).
[Buffed stats]
- 3722 Spell Damage
- 35% Spell Critical
- 11500 Spell Penetration (major breach)
- 32k Resistances
- 29k Health/ 34k Magicka / 15K Stamina
The only 'tanking' skill that I run on my bar is Pierce Armor, and that's just as much for the penetration as it is for the taunt. I never run out of resources, and thanks to Surge and Dark Conversion, I don't require healing in 95% of the dungeons I do. I can solo almost all non DLC veteran and normal DLC dungeons (the exception are a few bosses with mechancis that require at least one more person). Before I ran this character, I ran a Magicka (frost) warden tank, that had good damage and was able to heal good enough for us not needing a dedicated healer. I ran both Tank/Heal on that warden, and I often ended up doing pledges with 3x DPS.
While both of these characters have a taunt slotted, and were close to resistance capped, they wouldn't be able to tank if ESO ended up implementing some draconic tanking requirements. These tanking requirements aren't needed, and if anything, they would kill build diversity. I don't mind going 'full tank', but for that to happen, the content needs to be difficult enough, which it isn't.
I am fully aware that what I play is considered a 'selfish' tank, and if I had a 'GOOD' group, my group would benefit more from me running buff sets (which I do own), than gearing for DPS. The issue is that it's so rare to get a 'good' group, that it's more efficient to build for DPS than for buffing your team. There is only so much you can improve a base 2-3K DPS.
I have had no complaints when it comes to my tanking, as the dungeons go fast and it's very rare for people to die. On the other side, I've had a lot of compliments and good feedback, as I often pull big groups and people have the chance to drop their ultimates/AoEs and see big numbers.
From what I've seen in this thread, most of the toxicity, finger pointing and narrow mindness comes from one side of the discussion. There will always be bad tanks, and there will always be bad fake tanks, but that doesn't mean that everyone who does a good job should suffer for it.
We do not need draconian tank requirements in ESO.
Why dont people who complain about fake tanks roll tank themselves. Level a tank, farm gear and enjoy watching 5k dps [snip] boss. Then you won't see fake tanks and also help shorten the dps queue, win-win for all.
Why dont people who complain about fake tanks roll tank themselves. Level a tank, farm gear and enjoy watching 5k dps [snip] boss. Then you won't see fake tanks and also help shorten the dps queue, win-win for all.
Why dont people who complain about fake tanks roll tank themselves. Level a tank, farm gear and enjoy watching 5k dps [snip] boss. Then you won't see fake tanks and also help shorten the dps queue, win-win for all.
Why don't people fake tanking roll actual tanks themselves? Then we wouldn't see fake tanks either. And perhaps then half of dungeon runs wouldn't be wasted because a) "tank" can't hold agro causing wipe after wipe / forcing someone else to face-tank, or b) "tank" more or less soloes the dungeon, preferably by skipping parts of it, making learning mechanics / quest completion impossible.
Btw: in my experience bad dps is usually result of no one tanking / healing, since dds spent most of the time dead, resing someone, casting self heals and shields and running from enemies, instead of damage dealing.
Why dont people who complain about fake tanks roll tank themselves. Level a tank, farm gear and enjoy watching 5k dps [snip] boss. Then you won't see fake tanks and also help shorten the dps queue, win-win for all.
Because you need do something to do a tank, and they do not want to do anything - L - logick
Why dont people who complain about fake tanks roll tank themselves. Level a tank, farm gear and enjoy watching 5k dps [snip] boss. Then you won't see fake tanks and also help shorten the dps queue, win-win for all.
Because you need do something to do a tank, and they do not want to do anything - L - logick
Ok ? When the issue regarding long waiting time for dd´s became an issue for me, I simply made three healers and dusting off my 2nd tank - my dds are only for trials.
More and more seems interesting in trying out tanking, which is posiive - seen in the light of how demanding it is compared to other roles.
Your post above do not have any logic or thruth to it.
Replying to posters, who goes in circles and posting for the sake of posting ain´t worth it - t´s all about draining. Nothing else
You do realize I am posting this as a tank, who gets placed in half-finished runs more often than start a full run. Low DPS is a terribly overused excuse. It takes two-three pulls for players to get used to a real tank having their backs, and then they start DPSing for real! Just like fake tank's excuse saying they do most DPS, its because everyone else is either running for their lives or is dead. As a tank if I let my group die, I can do 100% DPS as well!Why dont people who complain about fake tanks roll tank themselves. Level a tank, farm gear and enjoy watching 5k dps [snip] boss. Then you won't see fake tanks and also help shorten the dps queue, win-win for all.