Fake Tanking

Milli_Rabbit

This practice needs to stop. If you are a DPS and you hate the queue wait times, find friends or become a real tank. It is not okay to queue as a tank when you are actually a DPS. Now, you might say, "But Milli, its just a normal". Yea, and you didn't bring a taunt nor can you survive for more than 1 second of a boss fight.

Let me make this clear. A DPS CAN tank. If you equip a taunt like Inner Rage or even Pierce Armor, you can tank if you are taunting the boss. You are doing the role of tank in that case. If you are surviving, you are doing the role well for a normal dungeon. You can also DPS, taunt, and survive. "What?! No way!" Yea way, man. Yea way.

So, before you queue up as a tank. Ask yourself: Do I have a taunt? And can I survive this? Because if you can't, your team will hate you and likely kick you.

idk

There are two very easy ways to avoid fake tanks.

1. Form your own group which keep the fake tanks out of the picture entirely. Also helps ensure smooth runs with the GF cannot.
2. Vote kick the tank. They keep queueing as a fake tank because people allow it. The people who do not vote kick a fake tank, or at least try to, are the real problem.

PS. every character I have can perform at least two roles with some characters able to perform all. I can tank on DPS characters without changing CP, just swap gear and some skills. This type of "being prepared" gameplay means the fake tank can be replaced by a DPS and the group will not have to wait for a tank to join the group.

BTW, I subscribe to the first point as it solves so many issues that come with GF groups.

Edit: btw, I am not sure the fake tanks can read the forums. Threads like this have not changed the fake tank issue. #votekickfaketanks

VaranisArano

Most fake tanks get away with it because some longsuffering DD or Healer steps up and facetanks the boss just so the group can get through the dungeon.

As long as they get away with it, it seems like the ideal way to get out of the long DD queue.

Though the one I don't understand at all are the fake healers who rush ahead of the group and die to mobs. It's hilarious every time it happens. Like, if you need backup, maybe don't leave us in the dust at every opportunity?

Taunky

I agree. I don't even care if it's the easiest dungeon in the game. If the rest of us had to wait in a long queue to get in, and you get in instantly due to faking your role - you're getting kicked.

deleted221106-002999

LOL. [edit] (@ run-ahead-and-dies-'healer) [/edit]

Although I agree with @idk's observation that our lack of desire to auto-vote-kick a fake tank is a significant part of the problem.

And with @VaranisArano pointing out that someone else usually steps in to fill the gap because it's marginally less annoying or time-consuming than going through the vote-kick (IF fail THEN quit) routine.

It's a shame when you get a real tank for a normal dungeon, maybe learning, and no-one waits; I'm occassionally guilty of this particular one when time-constrained myself. But it is nice to wait...but for randoms what the other player's choose to do is up to them.

Ultimately the only way to make the group finder work predictably and with considerably less frustration for you, the player, is pre-form your group (guild, friends, even in zone). I think @idk mentioned that, too.

Swomp23

I do exactly that on my pvp stam toons. I slot a taunt on my snb bar and queue for my daily normal. The only one I can’t do is Moon Hunter Keep. I get one shot by the ww adds, which is kinda stupid, since I can tank vet non dlc dungeons with the same setup pretty easily.

KaGaOri

Can you still kick the fake tank if they are the one with the crown? Got stuck with terrible one in normal White Gold Tower couple days back and assumed there's no getting rid of them since they are the group leader.

This "tank" died seconds into any boss fight (and again seconds after somebody resing them) + couple times to the mobs, wouldn't wait for questers, started bosses before mechanics could be explaind or all ppl even present in the boss area, causing wipe on each one of them due to some people being new to WGT and no time left to explain + once by 2 ppl being locked out of the fight. Have considered quitting, but ultimately felt sorry for person doing quest and stayed so they could complete it (+ I've been the one who foolishly passed the crown to tank at the start, making them unkickable - or maybe not?).

Milli_Rabbit

KaGaOri wrote: »

Can you still kick the fake tank if they are the one with the crown? Got stuck with terrible one in normal White Gold Tower couple days back and assumed there's no getting rid of them since they are the group leader.

This "tank" died seconds into any boss fight (and again seconds after somebody resing them) + couple times to the mobs, wouldn't wait for questers, started bosses before mechanics could be explaind or all ppl even present in the boss area, causing wipe on each one of them due to some people being new to WGT and no time left to explain + once by 2 ppl being locked out of the fight. Have considered quitting, but ultimately felt sorry for person doing quest and stayed so they could complete it (+ I've been the one who foolishly passed the crown to tank at the start, making them unkickable - or maybe not?).

Yes! You can kick the group lead. The issue is you are at the mercy of the rest of the group. Sometimes people just don't care if the tank is a problem. Sometimes they don't know how to accept the kick. Other times they don't even notice. People usually don't care until you start wiping as a group.

idk

Souterain wrote: »

LOL. [edit] (@ run-ahead-and-dies-'healer) [/edit]

Although I agree with @idk's observation that our lack of desire to auto-vote-kick a fake tank is a significant part of the problem.

And with @VaranisArano pointing out that someone else usually steps in to fill the gap because it's marginally less annoying or time-consuming than going through the vote-kick (IF fail THEN quit) routine.

It's a shame when you get a real tank for a normal dungeon, maybe learning, and no-one waits; I'm occassionally guilty of this particular one when time-constrained myself. But it is nice to wait...but for randoms what the other player's choose to do is up to them.

Ultimately the only way to make the group finder work predictably and with considerably less frustration for you, the player, is pre-form your group (guild, friends, even in zone). I think @idk mentioned that, too.

Actually, back when I was still willing to queue solo to help the GF I had queued as a healer and got a CP10 tank with 20k health in vet CoH II. The tank said he had never done this dungeon on any mode and would understand if we vote kicked them.

I said if they follow my instructions on the mechanics of the fights and hold taunt we would be fine. We did not attempt HM (20k HP holding 4 wraiths, lol) but it was a very smooth run. The second to last fight in there can be a mess if people cannot follow mechanics and it went fine.

This diverts from the point the OP is making, is players like that, willing to listen and capable or recognizing mechanics, are very rare in the GF these days. As such most decent players, especially decent tanks, avoid using the GF to get into a group and prefer to use their guilds. To often it is a mess.

That is the real issue with the GF and the solution is one that will make using the GF feel less like playing Russian Roulette.

josiahva

I have been queuing as a tank and fake DPSing lately...does that count? For base game dungeons on my tank I have been equipping Leeching Plate, Bahraha's Curse, Zaan, and some damage skills, pulling about 12-15k DPS single target....its really fake tanking I guess since all I do for tank stuff is taunt stuff and pull stuff with chains...but aside from caltrops and unstable frost wall I dont slot a CC or offer any other debuffs....support is limited to orbs, which doubles as poor aoe dmg. For DLC dungeons I will swap to a real tanking setup, but I feel I have to fake-tank in this way in base game dungeons now. I was in EH1 as a random vet yesterday with this setup...it was bad, I was pulling 50%+ of total group DPS the entire time, but that is far preferable to me going in there as pure tank and it taking twice as long(it already wasn't fast, and that is my least favorite dungeon in the game)

Sarannah

As a real tank I have to say dungeons are 10x faster with a real tank. Unless ofcourse someone messes up the run in some way.

Odovacar

If a tank fails to do *their job they're exposed very early on in the run....vote to kick as I'm sure the entire group would approve since running for your life left and right gets old fast!

Sarannah

Odovacar wrote: »

If a tank fails to do *their job they're exposed very early on in the run....vote to kick as I'm sure the entire group would approve since running for your life left and right gets old fast!

To be fair, this isn't always the tanks fault. When DPS pulls a group, a tank has to re-aggro them one-by-one. Which might take a while since everyone is running everywhere to stay alive, and mobs also run to the furthest players. Worst is, DPS actually think runs go faster when they pull groups.

Odovacar

Sarannah wrote: »

Odovacar wrote: »

If a tank fails to do *their job they're exposed very early on in the run....vote to kick as I'm sure the entire group would approve since running for your life left and right gets old fast!

To be fair, this isn't always the tanks fault. When DPS pulls a group, a tank has to re-aggro them one-by-one. Which might take a while since everyone is running everywhere to stay alive, and mobs also run to the furthest players. Worst is, DPS actually think runs go faster when they pull groups.

I agree there are many variables to a trashy random group...for these reasons is exactly why I rarely ever pug.

zergbase_ESO

Milli_Rabbit wrote: »

This practice needs to stop. If you are a DPS and you hate the queue wait times, find friends or become a real tank. It is not okay to queue as a tank when you are actually a DPS. Now, you might say, "But Milli, its just a normal". Yea, and you didn't bring a taunt nor can you survive for more than 1 second of a boss fight.

Let me make this clear. A DPS CAN tank. If you equip a taunt like Inner Rage or even Pierce Armor, you can tank if you are taunting the boss. You are doing the role of tank in that case. If you are surviving, you are doing the role well for a normal dungeon. You can also DPS, taunt, and survive. "What?! No way!" Yea way, man. Yea way.

So, before you queue up as a tank. Ask yourself: Do I have a taunt? And can I survive this? Because if you can't, your team will hate you and likely kick you.

Know how this gets fixed. Dungeon finder requires taunts and x amount states and resistances in order to tank. That be the only way. Until then just kick them and move on.

Also this is another reason why I don't pug on my DD's and my tank stays shelved away from pugs... X_X Just too nightmareish to deal with it.

idk

zergbase_ESO wrote: »

Milli_Rabbit wrote: »

This practice needs to stop. If you are a DPS and you hate the queue wait times, find friends or become a real tank. It is not okay to queue as a tank when you are actually a DPS. Now, you might say, "But Milli, its just a normal". Yea, and you didn't bring a taunt nor can you survive for more than 1 second of a boss fight.

Let me make this clear. A DPS CAN tank. If you equip a taunt like Inner Rage or even Pierce Armor, you can tank if you are taunting the boss. You are doing the role of tank in that case. If you are surviving, you are doing the role well for a normal dungeon. You can also DPS, taunt, and survive. "What?! No way!" Yea way, man. Yea way.

So, before you queue up as a tank. Ask yourself: Do I have a taunt? And can I survive this? Because if you can't, your team will hate you and likely kick you.

Know how this gets fixed. Dungeon finder requires taunts and x amount states and resistances in order to tank. That be the only way. Until then just kick them and move on.

Also this is another reason why I don't pug on my DD's and my tank stays shelved away from pugs... X_X Just too nightmareish to deal with it.

Other than a taunt there are no other requirements. I have seen a dps tank Earthgore on HM. All that was needed is a taunt.

So to the point of the GF requiring a taunt to queue as a tank, that is meaningless as it does not mean they have to use it nor does it mean they will keep it slotted.

BXR_Lonestar

Milli_Rabbit wrote: »

This practice needs to stop. If you are a DPS and you hate the queue wait times, find friends or become a real tank. It is not okay to queue as a tank when you are actually a DPS. Now, you might say, "But Milli, its just a normal". Yea, and you didn't bring a taunt nor can you survive for more than 1 second of a boss fight.

Let me make this clear. A DPS CAN tank. If you equip a taunt like Inner Rage or even Pierce Armor, you can tank if you are taunting the boss. You are doing the role of tank in that case. If you are surviving, you are doing the role well for a normal dungeon. You can also DPS, taunt, and survive. "What?! No way!" Yea way, man. Yea way.

So, before you queue up as a tank. Ask yourself: Do I have a taunt? And can I survive this? Because if you can't, your team will hate you and likely kick you.

TBH, the bigger issue with the dungeon finder isn't fake tanks - its fake DPS. Especially in normal content, 4 DPS can simply burn through, usually without any issues. Even in harder content, a mag DPS with a resto staff back barred can keep people alive more or less. But DPS hitting for a combined 8-10k dps is the reason why many real tanks don't que, hence why there are so many fake tanks.

That's just the way the game is. TBH, the only way they could solve this system is if they tossed the role system out the window and made dungeons no harder than delves, but then they simply wouldn't be any fun to play. Just gotta take the good with the bad, and if you want to not deal with the shennanigans of the dungeon finder, make a pre-made group from friends or guildmates, or do an LFG in zone and try to be better coordinated with the people you run with.

Swordancer

`I do play as a fake tank with random groups but I always using taunt skill becouse playing normal non DLC with my character is just too easy. All you need to do is taunt enemy and do DPS. No one ever complaind for that with me. Im not using any special armor or anything else, i just know when to shield, block or dodge. I only switch my tank build (same character) with normal DLC dunegons (only the hard one) and real tank for any veteran dungeon if Im playing with random people.

You just need to be sure that you do not suck as DD and thats it.

There was a time I wasn't using taunt but I was warning people when I joined that Im not a tank and we can handle that without any problems with me. I just warning that im rushing and I don't care if somone do not agree on this, I leave so they can find somone else.

Now I just play as tank with powerful DD and it is so much faster to complete dunegon when you got low CP people in your team.

BTW. You won't change people style of playing. Group finder sucks and you should complain about that for the most of the time. The right group finder with correct filters can reduce the issue to the minimum

IWinWithPewPew

I faketank 24/7

Why? Because i can . Normal random queue as a tank => 5seconds , normal queue as a dd => sometimes over 20minutes or longer.

In that time i could fake tank 3 dungeons, even if i fail one. Its still worth it more then randomly waiting somewhere for an hour.

That said, as a magsorc (with ward and critical surge ) bosses dont even touch me on normal.

Vet i mostly play dd or premade. But for random normals, i really dont care. Having a tank is actually a lot slowers. Ill take 4dds over 2 dds a tank and a heal any day for normals.

High dps dds, lets say 80, 90k dps can even 4man dd VET trials. The ideal team imo is 3 dds 90k dps and 1 healer

Xologamer

Milli_Rabbit wrote: »

This practice needs to stop. If you are a DPS and you hate the queue wait times, find friends or become a real tank. It is not okay to queue as a tank when you are actually a DPS. Now, you might say, "But Milli, its just a normal". Yea, and you didn't bring a taunt nor can you survive for more than 1 second of a boss fight.

Let me make this clear. A DPS CAN tank. If you equip a taunt like Inner Rage or even Pierce Armor, you can tank if you are taunting the boss. You are doing the role of tank in that case. If you are surviving, you are doing the role well for a normal dungeon. You can also DPS, taunt, and survive. "What?! No way!" Yea way, man. Yea way.

So, before you queue up as a tank. Ask yourself: Do I have a taunt? And can I survive this? Because if you can't, your team will hate you and likely kick you.

do i have a taunt: yes, do i use it : no, can i survive it : yes, can i deal dmg; yes

VaranisArano

Xologamer wrote: »

Milli_Rabbit wrote: »

This practice needs to stop. If you are a DPS and you hate the queue wait times, find friends or become a real tank. It is not okay to queue as a tank when you are actually a DPS. Now, you might say, "But Milli, its just a normal". Yea, and you didn't bring a taunt nor can you survive for more than 1 second of a boss fight.

Let me make this clear. A DPS CAN tank. If you equip a taunt like Inner Rage or even Pierce Armor, you can tank if you are taunting the boss. You are doing the role of tank in that case. If you are surviving, you are doing the role well for a normal dungeon. You can also DPS, taunt, and survive. "What?! No way!" Yea way, man. Yea way.

So, before you queue up as a tank. Ask yourself: Do I have a taunt? And can I survive this? Because if you can't, your team will hate you and likely kick you.

do i have a taunt: yes, do i use it : no, can i survive it : yes, can i deal dmg; yes

What's the point of having a taunt if you aren't using it to hold boss aggro and keep the boss in the AOEs? If you don't do that, you can't reliably face tank, and your own DPS suffers every time the boss runs around chasing other players. (Unless they face tank it reliably for you, in which case, congrats, you successfully pawned your job off onto someone else.)

KaGaOri

IWinWithPewPew wrote: »

I faketank 24/7

Why? Because i can . Normal random queue as a tank => 5seconds , normal queue as a dd => sometimes over 20minutes or longer.

In that time i could fake tank 3 dungeons, even if i fail one. Its still worth it more then randomly waiting somewhere for an hour.

That said, as a magsorc (with ward and critical surge ) bosses dont even touch me on normal.

Vet i mostly play dd or premade. But for random normals, i really dont care. Having a tank is actually a lot slowers. Ill take 4dds over 2 dds a tank and a heal any day for normals.

High dps dds, lets say 80, 90k dps can even 4man dd VET trials. The ideal team imo is 3 dds 90k dps and 1 healer

This may work for you, but are you sure you're not making rest of your group miserable in the process? Boss may not be able to touch you, but low level /inexperienced player with no one in group actually tanking will spend 3/4 of boss fights dead on the ground watching you flex (isn't that fun?). Also, having person set on doing most dungeons in least amount of time in your group while doing the quest, wanting to loot chests or kill skippable minibosses for achievement isn't much fun either.

Morwaenna

If you don't wipe, stick to it. If you wipe, vote kick although I had a nasty experience with a fake tank AND a fake healer.

I initiated a vote kick for the tank and then realised that the two culprits were in the same guild so I just quit. The DD who voted yes whispered me to tell me that they both kicked him cause he said yes.

ForeverJenn

Whatever. A competent healer can carry just about any group. Fake tanks, miserable dps, ppl that stand in red, ppl that don't block, ppl that don't bash...you name it. You only need a real tank in DLC and vets.

It's also extremely boring to run as a tank on norm. DPS pulls 9/10 times. I tried levelling myself as a legit tank on my last tank. A group total of DPS 5k and healers refusing to get off ice staff was such a joke.

OmniDo

I rarely ever fake-tank normals, but if I wanted to, I could.
There are players who can easily solo any Normal dungeon which doesnt have special mechanics that would otherwise require a 2nd player; interrupts, standing on <x> to activate <y>, etc...

If we're being direct, If I queue as a fank-tank, I will essentially ignore the other participants and solo the dungeon, knowing full well that the others will probably just mosey along behind me.
If the "healer" that winds up in a dungeon with me cannot manage to keep themselves and the other 2 group members alive from splash damage and boss mechanics while I essentially nuke and survive everything mostly myself, then well...they would have likely failed anyway regardless.

This isn't something I do often though, as I rarely ever use the group-finder for Normals anymore.
I only do this to benefit friends or help the occasional newbie, since I have all the gear and copies of gear I would ever need.

With the new system coming out that will allow us to craft whatever gear we have already acquired once, that will invalidate the need to run normals even more, leaving all the trials and tribulations of n00bdom to the next generation.

Lintashi

Fake tanking will never stop. However, it is sometimes hard to differentiate between newbie tank with no experience, and fake tank. Good thing is that I am a good healer, and can reliably outheal even flimsiy dps or fake tank with 16k health and 15k dps. Ofc, kicking is the right thing to do, but just like everyone else, I hate waiting 20+ mins for another tank, pleading in guild chats with a chance to get another fake if none answers. I acknowledge, I am part of the problem, but I hope, that Zos will do smth about it, it is their job and game after all.

ForeverJenn

Taunky wrote: »

I agree. I don't even care if it's the easiest dungeon in the game. If the rest of us had to wait in a long queue to get in, and you get in instantly due to faking your role - you're getting kicked.

Taunky wrote: »

I agree. I don't even care if it's the easiest dungeon in the game. If the rest of us had to wait in a long queue to get in, and you get in instantly due to faking your role - you're getting kicked.

Let's not pretend that a tank doesn't have to wait for ready check after ready check. 🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂

huntgod_ESO

Best solution is don't random Q vet content.

I wish they'd do away with the role requirement for groups or allow you to us it or not as you wish.

If I am running random content, it is a normal, for an xp bump and I am hoping to have 4x DD.

I fake take in that situation, I also pull enough damage that no one else needs to worry about taunting and can heal/shield myself so really I just want and need the extra damage so it goes faster. Obviously there are a couple DLC's this wouldn't apply to, but it's still faster to Q, drop the handful that are a problem and requeue back in than sitting through the initial wait as a DPS.

Remove the role requirement or allow me to click to ignore it and then we have fast Q's and I am fine dealing with whatever I get.

zaria

Lintashi wrote: »

Fake tanking will never stop. However, it is sometimes hard to differentiate between newbie tank with no experience, and fake tank. Good thing is that I am a good healer, and can reliably outheal even flimsiy dps or fake tank with 16k health and 15k dps. Ofc, kicking is the right thing to do, but just like everyone else, I hate waiting 20+ mins for another tank, pleading in guild chats with a chance to get another fake if none answers. I acknowledge, I am part of the problem, but I hope, that Zos will do smth about it, it is their job and game after all.

Look at how much health they have, granted I tend to run my tanks in overland mode outside of dungeons with stamina+ stamina regen food and had people react then i had 20K health
Dressing room and eating food solves this.

And yes as healer you feel the fake tank very well, now its not much of an issue if he does decent dps and don't get killed but if he does tank level dps its an dps loss over an real tank as I could concentrate on damage and buffing rather than healing so much.

FangOfTheTwoMoons

Xologamer wrote: »

Milli_Rabbit wrote: »

This practice needs to stop. If you are a DPS and you hate the queue wait times, find friends or become a real tank. It is not okay to queue as a tank when you are actually a DPS. Now, you might say, "But Milli, its just a normal". Yea, and you didn't bring a taunt nor can you survive for more than 1 second of a boss fight.

Let me make this clear. A DPS CAN tank. If you equip a taunt like Inner Rage or even Pierce Armor, you can tank if you are taunting the boss. You are doing the role of tank in that case. If you are surviving, you are doing the role well for a normal dungeon. You can also DPS, taunt, and survive. "What?! No way!" Yea way, man. Yea way.

So, before you queue up as a tank. Ask yourself: Do I have a taunt? And can I survive this? Because if you can't, your team will hate you and likely kick you.

do i have a taunt: yes, do i use it : no, can i survive it : yes, can i deal dmg; yes

Then you get a inexperienced group with newer players and blame them for why the dungeon is going downhill. If you're slotting a taunt and not even using it I doubt you're even doing good enough damage to justify yourself fake tanking.

If you're gonna fake tank you should: Taunt and stay alive. That's its. Yeah you're losing out on some buffs for the group, but if you're good your dps will make up for it.

The problems lies with the kind of people that dont do anything a tank is supposed to do. They expect a carry and that's just rude. They don't even think about what happens if their group is full of newer players. Like they're gonna be able to carry but half the time they cant.

Dont get me wrong, Normals almost anyone can carry, and some Vet Dungeons too, but we all know players can surprise us, weather it's bad mechanical skill or inexperience, some people need real supports in all content, and that's fine. Don't ruin other people's experiences.

idk

zaria wrote: »

Lintashi wrote: »

Fake tanking will never stop. However, it is sometimes hard to differentiate between newbie tank with no experience, and fake tank. Good thing is that I am a good healer, and can reliably outheal even flimsiy dps or fake tank with 16k health and 15k dps. Ofc, kicking is the right thing to do, but just like everyone else, I hate waiting 20+ mins for another tank, pleading in guild chats with a chance to get another fake if none answers. I acknowledge, I am part of the problem, but I hope, that Zos will do smth about it, it is their job and game after all.

Look at how much health they have, granted I tend to run my tanks in overland mode outside of dungeons with stamina+ stamina regen food and had people react then i had 20K health
Dressing room and eating food solves this.

And yes as healer you feel the fake tank very well, now its not much of an issue if he does decent dps and don't get killed but if he does tank level dps its an dps loss over an real tank as I could concentrate on damage and buffing rather than healing so much.

This is half the problem. Ok, less than half. With the limited number of times I have dealt with a fake tank I have seen they tend to not be very skilled to begin with. One was so oblivious to pretty much everything they would die to a PBAoE that will one-shot a DPS (not a tank), get rezzed, and return to melee to die yet again.