ZOS_ConnorG wrote: »

Greetings all,

After review we have had to edit or remove several posts for rule violations, mostly Baiting. Ensure when engaging in a discussion that you keep said discussion civil, constructive, and within the rules. If you see a post that is baiting in nature do not engage it with further hostility and instead report it for the moderators to review.

You are welcome to review the Community Rules here.

If you can take the time to remind us to be nice, why can you not provide an official ZOS response to the issues being discussed. Several simple changes that would benefit both PVP and PVE players have been suggested. ZOS response: silence. This leaves the impression that ZOS doesn't care about fixing an issue that affects so many of its players. This is from the Community Rules: "We monitor the ESO forums on a daily basis, not only to read your feedback, ideas, and suggestions, and interact with you ..." That interaction is what's missing here.

My story is simple. I am a PVE player. I enter PVP zones only for special events and try to avoid contact with players of other alliances while doing PVE activities like town quests. All my 10 characters were using rapids frequently before 6 lost access to the skill when the qualifying rank was increased. Only 2 of those were close enough to rank 5 to regain the skill without a huge investment of time and effort. Fortunately, 9 characters had completed riding skills, but #10 still has months of daily training ahead. The change most seriously affects new PVE-oriented players or those trying to develop new characters, and I expect it will discourage many from making the effort. I have been playing since year 1, and I certainly would not be interested in buying another character slot while ZOS continues to make major changes that adversely affect so much of its player base in spite of the objections those players voice.

esotoon wrote: »

Double AP in current AOE testing is bugged and not counting towards your Alliance War Skill Line, so those hoping to level Rapids faster during this event are out of luck until it gets fixed.

You can't make this stuff up.

Double AP? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure this event is only double Tel Var. Midyear madness is the only double AP event I'm aware of.

EDIT: Disregard, didn't know they were doing double AP to encourage people in for the AOE testing!

CaptainVenom wrote: »

I made like, about 10 BG matches (maybe less) with more loses than wins and unlocked Rapid Maneuver on my new character already. Changing to Rank 5 isn't a big deal, plus Stam builds get a heal early on, which is great for new players. It's there: you just need to do some very little pvp to unlock it.

10 battleground matches is NOT very little pvp. its hours of pvp.. per character and when you have limited time to play, that's hours of very likely paying for privilege of doing content you may not even be enjoying or downright hating. most stam builds already HAVE heals early on. vigor used to be amazing. and then they nerfed it. twice. now its pretty mediocre. ESPECIALLY at low levels.

esotoon wrote: »

CaptainVenom wrote: »

I made like, about 10 BG matches (maybe less) with more loses than wins and unlocked Rapid Maneuver on my new character already. Changing to Rank 5 isn't a big deal, plus Stam builds get a heal early on, which is great for new players. It's there: you just need to do some very little pvp to unlock it.

Is it great? A HOT heal and a not very good one at that for low level players, instead of the low level burst heal ZOS said they would be giving stam players? Is that what you really wanted, or are you just happy to get anything at this point, even if you know full well you are being fobbed off?

And no big deal on 1 character? True for most. Now level up another 17 and tot up the time you have just wasted for no reason whatsoever, and ask yourself if it wasn’t such a big deal. And if it still isn’t such a big deal to you, wouldn’t that imply getting vigor wasn’t that big a deal either? And if it wasn’t a big deal to get vigor, would it have been faster or slower getting it, if you had access to rapids first?

I just love when people with 17 toons ( 17! ) talking about "wasting time". Seriously , you probably "wasted" thousands of hours already. 2-3 more per toon are not going to change anything.

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

I just love when people with 17 toons ( 17! ) talking about "wasting time". Seriously , you probably "wasted" thousands of hours already. 2-3 more per toon are not going to change anything.

It's not unreasonable to invest time into alts for a multitude of reasons, the most common being mules and writ crafters. None of that has anything to do with suddenly having a base skill taken away that everybody uses.

Is it the end of the world? No. But it's a frustrating nonsense change that could have been completely avoided.

Edit: removed bait

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

esotoon wrote: »

CaptainVenom wrote: »

I made like, about 10 BG matches (maybe less) with more loses than wins and unlocked Rapid Maneuver on my new character already. Changing to Rank 5 isn't a big deal, plus Stam builds get a heal early on, which is great for new players. It's there: you just need to do some very little pvp to unlock it.

Is it great? A HOT heal and a not very good one at that for low level players, instead of the low level burst heal ZOS said they would be giving stam players? Is that what you really wanted, or are you just happy to get anything at this point, even if you know full well you are being fobbed off?

And no big deal on 1 character? True for most. Now level up another 17 and tot up the time you have just wasted for no reason whatsoever, and ask yourself if it wasn’t such a big deal. And if it still isn’t such a big deal to you, wouldn’t that imply getting vigor wasn’t that big a deal either? And if it wasn’t a big deal to get vigor, would it have been faster or slower getting it, if you had access to rapids first?

I just love when people with 17 toons ( 17! ) talking about "wasting time". Seriously , you probably "wasted" thousands of hours already. 2-3 more per toon are not going to change anything.

You play the game your way and I’ll play it my way. And, incidentally, I have far more than 17. ZOS *was* getting lots of money from me every month from multiple subscriptions and crown buys. Now, because of this, they aren’t. I’ll re-subscribe when they restore Rapids.

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

esotoon wrote: »

CaptainVenom wrote: »

I made like, about 10 BG matches (maybe less) with more loses than wins and unlocked Rapid Maneuver on my new character already. Changing to Rank 5 isn't a big deal, plus Stam builds get a heal early on, which is great for new players. It's there: you just need to do some very little pvp to unlock it.

Is it great? A HOT heal and a not very good one at that for low level players, instead of the low level burst heal ZOS said they would be giving stam players? Is that what you really wanted, or are you just happy to get anything at this point, even if you know full well you are being fobbed off?

And no big deal on 1 character? True for most. Now level up another 17 and tot up the time you have just wasted for no reason whatsoever, and ask yourself if it wasn’t such a big deal. And if it still isn’t such a big deal to you, wouldn’t that imply getting vigor wasn’t that big a deal either? And if it wasn’t a big deal to get vigor, would it have been faster or slower getting it, if you had access to rapids first?

I just love when people with 17 toons ( 17! ) talking about "wasting time". Seriously , you probably "wasted" thousands of hours already. 2-3 more per toon are not going to change anything.

I just love when people don't understand the difference between playing those 17 characters in a way that you want to and chose to and enjoy.... and feeling like you have to spend work week's worth of time doing activity you do NOT enjoy, to regain acess to skill you had use of for years now.

Linaleah wrote: »

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

esotoon wrote: »

CaptainVenom wrote: »

I made like, about 10 BG matches (maybe less) with more loses than wins and unlocked Rapid Maneuver on my new character already. Changing to Rank 5 isn't a big deal, plus Stam builds get a heal early on, which is great for new players. It's there: you just need to do some very little pvp to unlock it.

Is it great? A HOT heal and a not very good one at that for low level players, instead of the low level burst heal ZOS said they would be giving stam players? Is that what you really wanted, or are you just happy to get anything at this point, even if you know full well you are being fobbed off?

And no big deal on 1 character? True for most. Now level up another 17 and tot up the time you have just wasted for no reason whatsoever, and ask yourself if it wasn’t such a big deal. And if it still isn’t such a big deal to you, wouldn’t that imply getting vigor wasn’t that big a deal either? And if it wasn’t a big deal to get vigor, would it have been faster or slower getting it, if you had access to rapids first?

I just love when people with 17 toons ( 17! ) talking about "wasting time". Seriously , you probably "wasted" thousands of hours already. 2-3 more per toon are not going to change anything.

I just love when people don't understand the difference between playing those 17 characters in a way that you want to and chose to and enjoy.... and feeling like you have to spend work week's worth of time doing activity you do NOT enjoy, to regain acess to skill you had use of for years now.

I just love when people dont understand that i was talking about specific argument - "wasting time". Not about your "enjoyment".

Sylvermynx wrote: »

DarcyMardin wrote: »

You play the game your way and I’ll play it my way. And, incidentally, I have far more than 17. ZOS *was* getting lots of money from me every month from multiple subscriptions.

Eh, ZOS gets two six month subs from me - and that's not going to change. The bottom line for me is - I never used rapids and never will. I don't need to race around the game world for any reason.

I still hope all of you who are agonizing over the loss of rapids get them back. It's not anything I care about personally - I never used rapids and never will. And using vigor on a couple of NBs.... it's okay, but not out-of-this-world outstanding.

Same. i have 11 toons and dont use rapids at all. I dont need it for crafters , i dont need it for questing , i dont need it for bgs , i dont need it for dungeons.

Linaleah wrote: »

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

esotoon wrote: »

CaptainVenom wrote: »

I made like, about 10 BG matches (maybe less) with more loses than wins and unlocked Rapid Maneuver on my new character already. Changing to Rank 5 isn't a big deal, plus Stam builds get a heal early on, which is great for new players. It's there: you just need to do some very little pvp to unlock it.

Is it great? A HOT heal and a not very good one at that for low level players, instead of the low level burst heal ZOS said they would be giving stam players? Is that what you really wanted, or are you just happy to get anything at this point, even if you know full well you are being fobbed off?

And no big deal on 1 character? True for most. Now level up another 17 and tot up the time you have just wasted for no reason whatsoever, and ask yourself if it wasn’t such a big deal. And if it still isn’t such a big deal to you, wouldn’t that imply getting vigor wasn’t that big a deal either? And if it wasn’t a big deal to get vigor, would it have been faster or slower getting it, if you had access to rapids first?

I just love when people with 17 toons ( 17! ) talking about "wasting time". Seriously , you probably "wasted" thousands of hours already. 2-3 more per toon are not going to change anything.

I just love when people don't understand the difference between playing those 17 characters in a way that you want to and chose to and enjoy.... and feeling like you have to spend work week's worth of time doing activity you do NOT enjoy, to regain acess to skill you had use of for years now.

I just love when people dont understand that i was talking about specific argument - "wasting time". Not about your "enjoyment".

Sylvermynx wrote: »

DarcyMardin wrote: »

You play the game your way and I’ll play it my way. And, incidentally, I have far more than 17. ZOS *was* getting lots of money from me every month from multiple subscriptions.

Eh, ZOS gets two six month subs from me - and that's not going to change. The bottom line for me is - I never used rapids and never will. I don't need to race around the game world for any reason.

I still hope all of you who are agonizing over the loss of rapids get them back. It's not anything I care about personally - I never used rapids and never will. And using vigor on a couple of NBs.... it's okay, but not out-of-this-world outstanding.

Same. i have 11 toons and dont use rapids at all. I dont need it for crafters , i dont need it for questing , i dont need it for bgs , i dont need it for dungeons.

but that is exactly the argument. time is NOT wasted when you are enjoying your hobby. it IS wasted when you are not. it IS wasted when you cannot move as fast as you prefer and are used to, it IS wasted when you are told that you should just spend that time in a way that you dislike to get back the thing that lead to enjoyment.

and here is the fun fact. YOU not using it doesn't mean anything in a larger scale of things. because YOUR choice =/= everyone's choice. YOUR enjoyment =/= everyone's enjoyment. its called "basic empathy" which Silvermynx has btw, because despite not using something themselves, they do wish that we could because it matters to us.

I am sorry but "wasted" time have nothing to do with "enjoyment". I don't enjoy going to the dentist but its not a "wasted" time for sure. It has nothing to do with choices or empathy.

Linaleah wrote: »

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

esotoon wrote: »

CaptainVenom wrote: »

I made like, about 10 BG matches (maybe less) with more loses than wins and unlocked Rapid Maneuver on my new character already. Changing to Rank 5 isn't a big deal, plus Stam builds get a heal early on, which is great for new players. It's there: you just need to do some very little pvp to unlock it.

Is it great? A HOT heal and a not very good one at that for low level players, instead of the low level burst heal ZOS said they would be giving stam players? Is that what you really wanted, or are you just happy to get anything at this point, even if you know full well you are being fobbed off?

And no big deal on 1 character? True for most. Now level up another 17 and tot up the time you have just wasted for no reason whatsoever, and ask yourself if it wasn’t such a big deal. And if it still isn’t such a big deal to you, wouldn’t that imply getting vigor wasn’t that big a deal either? And if it wasn’t a big deal to get vigor, would it have been faster or slower getting it, if you had access to rapids first?

I just love when people with 17 toons ( 17! ) talking about "wasting time". Seriously , you probably "wasted" thousands of hours already. 2-3 more per toon are not going to change anything.

I just love when people don't understand the difference between playing those 17 characters in a way that you want to and chose to and enjoy.... and feeling like you have to spend work week's worth of time doing activity you do NOT enjoy, to regain acess to skill you had use of for years now.

I just love when people dont understand that i was talking about specific argument - "wasting time". Not about your "enjoyment".

Sylvermynx wrote: »

DarcyMardin wrote: »

You play the game your way and I’ll play it my way. And, incidentally, I have far more than 17. ZOS *was* getting lots of money from me every month from multiple subscriptions.

Eh, ZOS gets two six month subs from me - and that's not going to change. The bottom line for me is - I never used rapids and never will. I don't need to race around the game world for any reason.

I still hope all of you who are agonizing over the loss of rapids get them back. It's not anything I care about personally - I never used rapids and never will. And using vigor on a couple of NBs.... it's okay, but not out-of-this-world outstanding.

Same. i have 11 toons and dont use rapids at all. I dont need it for crafters , i dont need it for questing , i dont need it for bgs , i dont need it for dungeons.

but that is exactly the argument. time is NOT wasted when you are enjoying your hobby. it IS wasted when you are not. it IS wasted when you cannot move as fast as you prefer and are used to, it IS wasted when you are told that you should just spend that time in a way that you dislike to get back the thing that lead to enjoyment.

and here is the fun fact. YOU not using it doesn't mean anything in a larger scale of things. because YOUR choice =/= everyone's choice. YOUR enjoyment =/= everyone's enjoyment. its called "basic empathy" which Silvermynx has btw, because despite not using something themselves, they do wish that we could because it matters to us.

QFT! 🙂

It’s kind of intriguing to me that there is an interesting group of people who keep trying to derail this thread by criticizing the play styles of the players who simply want to send a message to the developers that we are not happy with this change and why. They keep trying to tear down and belittle our reasons, and can’t seem to understand why we don’t suddenly change our minds and agree with their point of view. Sound familiar?

Since based on the title of this thread whether they use rapids or not or if they are against changing it back or against making both skills available at the same time ISN’T the topic of this thread, this one would like to respectfully suggest that they start THEIR OWN thread called “Don’t give rapids back to ANYONE because WE don’t use it!” And fill their thread full of posts supporting why they think that way. I for one would enjoy reading that thread because it would have to be very creative, but I would not be posting there because that would be THEIR thread for expounding THEIR point of view, not ours 😇

TequilaFire wrote: »

I just created a new character on the EU server to test out how bad this would be for new players.
It is worse than I thought because on top of not having rapids right away they have done something to make mount stamina drain almost instantly causing slow down to slug speed worse than in PvE.

( walks faster on foot without using sprint than mounted player )



That skill line will probably popup in the Crown Store soon as a P2A "convenience" feature soon.

Create problem, sell solution!
.