Please give us back Rapid Maneuver!

badmojo

Zephiran23 wrote: »

Either players riding past seemingly oblivious to the fact that they could recast to share it so that they weren't just charging past me

If you're playing on PC then there's a good chance they have the 'Assist Rapid Riding' addon that removes the skill from your bar after casting and only put it back right before it runs out, making it difficult to cast it every time you pass someone.

Sgrug

Nicole94 wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Rexy18 wrote: »

Hurbster wrote: »

For every sub they lost, they gained 100's of purchases of Assault skill line in the crown store at 3000 crowns each. There are plenty of people in my guilds that had no issue spending the crowns to unlock the skill line on their alts which were below rank 5, just so they could immediately get back the rapids to keep up.

£19 vs 1 hour in Cyro (30 mins during double AP or 1 hour for those under level 50), how stupid do you have to be to buy this stuff (unless it's giftable?). These people are probably the same ones spending £1k+ on crates and the reason it's extremely unlikely Zeni will revert the changes regardless of how active this thread is kept up.

its not giftable, but there are people who make that in half an hour or less in their day job. and would rather just pay then do something they actively dislike with whatever limited leisure time they have.

also, that time you just said? TRIPLE it at a minimum. there is literally a video in this very thread, that shows you get 30k ap in half an hour during double ap week and that video starts IN the castle so doesn't include travel time. you need 90k ish to actualy unlock rank 5.

...

This entire thread is a product of ZoS misrepresentation. This should have NEVER been allowed to devolve into a flame war between players in the game that we all love. It should have always placed the responsibly on ZoS for completely ignoring the PTS, overwhelmingly NEGATIVE feedback on this change. The ONLY time we have even heard from ZoS is when they tell us "to play nice" on these forums.
Rapid maneuver has always been Rank 2 and they moved Vigor to rank 3. There is NO reason they moved the rapid maneuver to the 5th rank at all! Both could have unlocked after the tutorial giving you the CHOICE of which skill you wanted, or even both of them if you needed it and had the skill points. It was a terrible and poorly planned exchange. A plan that already had overwhelming disapproval on the PTS and ALSO IGNORED. There has been no "official response" or any reason as to why they decided this was a good idea. Instead ZoS has allowed rumors and speculation about "crown riding lessons" "2 person mounts" "and purchasing of Alliance War skill line" to become actual focal points.
Players upset by the change have voiced their opinions only to bet met with other players telling them "how easy it is" when they didn't ASK for that, they wanted to know WHY rapids had to be removed and wanted it BACK. NOT tips on how to acquire it. They wanted to hear from the DEVS on a reason. A reason that SHOULD HAVE been given immediately!
I started my journey with ESO on 03/02/2014 and this kind of lack of respect for their player base is unacceptable!

I ENJOY pvp, and have several characters with max Alliance war skill, I forget my highest ranking, because I do not care about that. I just like the dyes I unlock. Just because I ENJOY it, doesn't mean everyone has too.

[Edit to remove bait]

This bears repeating, sums up the thread and several others. I would add it seems this has not subsided and over this long weekend in the US has only festered into more negative attitudes about ZoS and how the player base is being manipulated.

Also a review of this and several other threads reveal a growing list of those at least stating they have either cancelled or more often changed their spending habits on this game in a negative direction.

Anecdotally I hear the same things on my Discord Server and though less frequently in game chat as well.

ZOS_ConnorG

Greetings all,

After review we have had to edit or remove several posts for rule violations, mostly Baiting. Ensure when engaging in a discussion that you keep said discussion civil, constructive, and within the rules. If you see a post that is baiting in nature do not engage it with further hostility and instead report it for the moderators to review.

You are welcome to review the Community Rules here.

c363b

ZOS_ConnorG wrote: »

Greetings all,

After review we have had to edit or remove several posts for rule violations, mostly Baiting. Ensure when engaging in a discussion that you keep said discussion civil, constructive, and within the rules. If you see a post that is baiting in nature do not engage it with further hostility and instead report it for the moderators to review.

You are welcome to review the Community Rules here.

If you can take the time to remind us to be nice, why can you not provide an official ZOS response to the issues being discussed. Several simple changes that would benefit both PVP and PVE players have been suggested. ZOS response: silence. This leaves the impression that ZOS doesn't care about fixing an issue that affects so many of its players. This is from the Community Rules: "We monitor the ESO forums on a daily basis, not only to read your feedback, ideas, and suggestions, and interact with you ..." That interaction is what's missing here.

JoeCapricorn

Because Connor is a forum mod.

I would like an update from the devs about this issue, as the last official word from them is from the Gamescom stream where Rich Lambert said they are reading the feedback on the forums.

The best way to get that response is to keep this thread on the front page, keep things CIVIL, and if you're a user who hasn't commented on it before but you are adversely affected by this change please tell your own story.

c363b

My story is simple. I am a PVE player. I enter PVP zones only for special events and try to avoid contact with players of other alliances while doing PVE activities like town quests. All my 10 characters were using rapids frequently before 6 lost access to the skill when the qualifying rank was increased. Only 2 of those were close enough to rank 5 to regain the skill without a huge investment of time and effort. Fortunately, 9 characters had completed riding skills, but #10 still has months of daily training ahead. The change most seriously affects new PVE-oriented players or those trying to develop new characters, and I expect it will discourage many from making the effort. I have been playing since year 1, and I certainly would not be interested in buying another character slot while ZOS continues to make major changes that adversely affect so much of its player base in spite of the objections those players voice.

esotoon

Double AP in current AOE testing is bugged and not counting towards your Alliance War Skill Line, so those hoping to level Rapids faster during this event are out of luck until it gets fixed.

You can't make this stuff up.

lozq

esotoon wrote: »

Double AP in current AOE testing is bugged and not counting towards your Alliance War Skill Line, so those hoping to level Rapids faster during this event are out of luck until it gets fixed.

You can't make this stuff up.

Double AP? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure this event is only double Tel Var. Midyear madness is the only double AP event I'm aware of.

EDIT: Disregard, didn't know they were doing double AP to encourage people in for the AOE testing!

DarcyMardin

esotoon wrote: »

Double AP in current AOE testing is bugged and not counting towards your Alliance War Skill Line, so those hoping to level Rapids faster during this event are out of luck until it gets fixed.

You can't make this stuff up.

I can confirm this, having tested it several times in Cyrodiil today. You do get double AP, but only half of it accrues to your rank leveling, so it will take just as long to get to level 5 as it would *without* double AP.

And many of your skills be be greyed out when you want to fire them off. Healers are really shafted, since most of our skills are AOEs (targeting at least 2 players).

Sgrug

DarcyMardin wrote: »

esotoon wrote: »

Double AP in current AOE testing is bugged and not counting towards your Alliance War Skill Line, so those hoping to level Rapids faster during this event are out of luck until it gets fixed.

You can't make this stuff up.

I can confirm this, having tested it several times in Cyrodiil today. You do get double AP, but only half of it accrues to your rank leveling, so it will take just as long to get to level 5 as it would *without* double AP.

And many of your skills be be greyed out when you want to fire them off. Healers are really shafted, since most of our skills are AOEs (targeting at least 2 players).

Yep they added a 3 sec cooldown to AOE's which impacts Templars more than any other class. Basically this change kills the Templar and there is not thought of fixing them, only the possibility of actually implementing the 3 second cooldown of AOEs after the testing is done. I cannot imagine a worse way of handling things. Absolutely horrible, 6 years as a Templar and basically they will be deleting my character leaving me no choice but to cancel everything and write this company off as insensitive to me as a player.

First the rapids change which is totally tone deaf to the players and all feedback was dismissed, now this. Definitely a pattern in poor customer focus.. This is not the game I was buying 6 years ago. I get games change but these changes are NGE like n Star Wars Galaxies and any gamer can tell you NGE KILLS the game!

CaptainVenom

I made like, about 10 BG matches (maybe less) with more loses than wins and unlocked Rapid Maneuver on my new character already. Changing to Rank 5 isn't a big deal, plus Stam builds get a heal early on, which is great for new players. It's there: you just need to do some very little pvp to unlock it.

Iarao

Noisivid wrote: »

this, I've been running battleground in an attempt to grind alliance war skill line to get Rapids back. 3 hours so far and probably another hour to go. Multiply that by over ten non-pvp characters. I could just buy the skill line as it's maxed on a few actual PvP characters but no. I'm not going to do that even if they drop the cost to 500 crowns.

at this rate is will take me over 50 hours in game to grind back to where i was. I don't think that's going to happen either.

I'm seriously considering quitting the game.

well THAT is the aim. to convince you that you really need to spend crowns to level the skill line.

esotoon

CaptainVenom wrote: »

I made like, about 10 BG matches (maybe less) with more loses than wins and unlocked Rapid Maneuver on my new character already. Changing to Rank 5 isn't a big deal, plus Stam builds get a heal early on, which is great for new players. It's there: you just need to do some very little pvp to unlock it.

Is it great? A HOT heal and a not very good one at that for low level players, instead of the low level burst heal ZOS said they would be giving stam players? Is that what you really wanted, or are you just happy to get anything at this point, even if you know full well you are being fobbed off?

And no big deal on 1 character? True for most. Now level up another 17 and tot up the time you have just wasted for no reason whatsoever, and ask yourself if it wasn’t such a big deal. And if it still isn’t such a big deal to you, wouldn’t that imply getting vigor wasn’t that big a deal either? And if it wasn’t a big deal to get vigor, would it have been faster or slower getting it, if you had access to rapids first?

Linaleah

CaptainVenom wrote: »

I made like, about 10 BG matches (maybe less) with more loses than wins and unlocked Rapid Maneuver on my new character already. Changing to Rank 5 isn't a big deal, plus Stam builds get a heal early on, which is great for new players. It's there: you just need to do some very little pvp to unlock it.

10 battleground matches is NOT very little pvp. its hours of pvp.. per character and when you have limited time to play, that's hours of very likely paying for privilege of doing content you may not even be enjoying or downright hating. most stam builds already HAVE heals early on. vigor used to be amazing. and then they nerfed it. twice. now its pretty mediocre. ESPECIALLY at low levels.

JoeCapricorn

My lengthy e-mail to customer service in response to my canceled subscription received a ticket number and was passed along to "leadership teams"

huh.

interesting.

Also 10 BG matches is not "a little" PVP. Stretch that over 11 characters and it becomes a lot of PVP.

I don't even think I'll be online to do writs today, but that's because of other RL issues going on.

Massacre_Wurm

esotoon wrote: »

CaptainVenom wrote: »

I made like, about 10 BG matches (maybe less) with more loses than wins and unlocked Rapid Maneuver on my new character already. Changing to Rank 5 isn't a big deal, plus Stam builds get a heal early on, which is great for new players. It's there: you just need to do some very little pvp to unlock it.

Is it great? A HOT heal and a not very good one at that for low level players, instead of the low level burst heal ZOS said they would be giving stam players? Is that what you really wanted, or are you just happy to get anything at this point, even if you know full well you are being fobbed off?

And no big deal on 1 character? True for most. Now level up another 17 and tot up the time you have just wasted for no reason whatsoever, and ask yourself if it wasn’t such a big deal. And if it still isn’t such a big deal to you, wouldn’t that imply getting vigor wasn’t that big a deal either? And if it wasn’t a big deal to get vigor, would it have been faster or slower getting it, if you had access to rapids first?

I just love when people with 17 toons ( 17! ) talking about "wasting time". Seriously , you probably "wasted" thousands of hours already. 2-3 more per toon are not going to change anything.

esotoon

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

I just love when people with 17 toons ( 17! ) talking about "wasting time". Seriously , you probably "wasted" thousands of hours already. 2-3 more per toon are not going to change anything.

So if ZOS decided to take $50 out of the bank accounts of everyone who has been subscribed to ESO+ since it began, would that be ok? After all, those people have spent far more than that on the game already. And lets face it, the game isn't essential, so they have effectively wasted that money, so what's another $50 going to matter to them?

silvereyes

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

I just love when people with 17 toons ( 17! ) talking about "wasting time". Seriously , you probably "wasted" thousands of hours already. 2-3 more per toon are not going to change anything.

It's not unreasonable to invest time into alts for a multitude of reasons, the most common being mules and writ crafters. None of that has anything to do with suddenly having a base skill taken away that everybody uses.

Is it the end of the world? No. But it's a frustrating nonsense change that could have been completely avoided.

Edit: removed bait

OldManJim

And Zenimax still cannot even dignify us with a response.

The sheer hubris towards customers is mind boggling.

DarcyMardin

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

esotoon wrote: »

CaptainVenom wrote: »

I made like, about 10 BG matches (maybe less) with more loses than wins and unlocked Rapid Maneuver on my new character already. Changing to Rank 5 isn't a big deal, plus Stam builds get a heal early on, which is great for new players. It's there: you just need to do some very little pvp to unlock it.

Is it great? A HOT heal and a not very good one at that for low level players, instead of the low level burst heal ZOS said they would be giving stam players? Is that what you really wanted, or are you just happy to get anything at this point, even if you know full well you are being fobbed off?

And no big deal on 1 character? True for most. Now level up another 17 and tot up the time you have just wasted for no reason whatsoever, and ask yourself if it wasn’t such a big deal. And if it still isn’t such a big deal to you, wouldn’t that imply getting vigor wasn’t that big a deal either? And if it wasn’t a big deal to get vigor, would it have been faster or slower getting it, if you had access to rapids first?

I just love when people with 17 toons ( 17! ) talking about "wasting time". Seriously , you probably "wasted" thousands of hours already. 2-3 more per toon are not going to change anything.

You play the game your way and I’ll play it my way. And, incidentally, I have far more than 17. ZOS *was* getting lots of money from me every month from multiple subscriptions and crown buys. Now, because of this, they aren’t. I’ll re-subscribe when they restore Rapids.

Sylvermynx

DarcyMardin wrote: »

You play the game your way and I’ll play it my way. And, incidentally, I have far more than 17. ZOS *was* getting lots of money from me every month from multiple subscriptions.

Eh, ZOS gets two six month subs from me - and that's not going to change. The bottom line for me is - I never used rapids and never will. I don't need to race around the game world for any reason.

I still hope all of you who are agonizing over the loss of rapids get them back. It's not anything I care about personally - I never used rapids and never will. And using vigor on a couple of NBs.... it's okay, but not out-of-this-world outstanding.

Linaleah

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

esotoon wrote: »

CaptainVenom wrote: »

I made like, about 10 BG matches (maybe less) with more loses than wins and unlocked Rapid Maneuver on my new character already. Changing to Rank 5 isn't a big deal, plus Stam builds get a heal early on, which is great for new players. It's there: you just need to do some very little pvp to unlock it.

Is it great? A HOT heal and a not very good one at that for low level players, instead of the low level burst heal ZOS said they would be giving stam players? Is that what you really wanted, or are you just happy to get anything at this point, even if you know full well you are being fobbed off?

And no big deal on 1 character? True for most. Now level up another 17 and tot up the time you have just wasted for no reason whatsoever, and ask yourself if it wasn’t such a big deal. And if it still isn’t such a big deal to you, wouldn’t that imply getting vigor wasn’t that big a deal either? And if it wasn’t a big deal to get vigor, would it have been faster or slower getting it, if you had access to rapids first?

I just love when people with 17 toons ( 17! ) talking about "wasting time". Seriously , you probably "wasted" thousands of hours already. 2-3 more per toon are not going to change anything.

I just love when people don't understand the difference between playing those 17 characters in a way that you want to and chose to and enjoy.... and feeling like you have to spend work week's worth of time doing activity you do NOT enjoy, to regain acess to skill you had use of for years now.

ZaroktheImmortal

WeerW3ir wrote: »

Accept it or leave. Its not THAT hard to reach skill rank 5.

Yes...it's not that hard to reach rank 5...without rapids to get around cyrodil which is an area it already takes ages to get around with rapids and max speed.....but you can level it super fast..while moving around cyrodil really slowly.

Massacre_Wurm

Linaleah wrote: »

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

esotoon wrote: »

CaptainVenom wrote: »

I made like, about 10 BG matches (maybe less) with more loses than wins and unlocked Rapid Maneuver on my new character already. Changing to Rank 5 isn't a big deal, plus Stam builds get a heal early on, which is great for new players. It's there: you just need to do some very little pvp to unlock it.

Is it great? A HOT heal and a not very good one at that for low level players, instead of the low level burst heal ZOS said they would be giving stam players? Is that what you really wanted, or are you just happy to get anything at this point, even if you know full well you are being fobbed off?

And no big deal on 1 character? True for most. Now level up another 17 and tot up the time you have just wasted for no reason whatsoever, and ask yourself if it wasn’t such a big deal. And if it still isn’t such a big deal to you, wouldn’t that imply getting vigor wasn’t that big a deal either? And if it wasn’t a big deal to get vigor, would it have been faster or slower getting it, if you had access to rapids first?

I just love when people with 17 toons ( 17! ) talking about "wasting time". Seriously , you probably "wasted" thousands of hours already. 2-3 more per toon are not going to change anything.

I just love when people don't understand the difference between playing those 17 characters in a way that you want to and chose to and enjoy.... and feeling like you have to spend work week's worth of time doing activity you do NOT enjoy, to regain acess to skill you had use of for years now.

I just love when people dont understand that i was talking about specific argument - "wasting time". Not about your "enjoyment".

Sylvermynx wrote: »

DarcyMardin wrote: »

You play the game your way and I’ll play it my way. And, incidentally, I have far more than 17. ZOS *was* getting lots of money from me every month from multiple subscriptions.

Eh, ZOS gets two six month subs from me - and that's not going to change. The bottom line for me is - I never used rapids and never will. I don't need to race around the game world for any reason.

I still hope all of you who are agonizing over the loss of rapids get them back. It's not anything I care about personally - I never used rapids and never will. And using vigor on a couple of NBs.... it's okay, but not out-of-this-world outstanding.

Same. i have 11 toons and dont use rapids at all. I dont need it for crafters , i dont need it for questing , i dont need it for bgs , i dont need it for dungeons.

Linaleah

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

esotoon wrote: »

CaptainVenom wrote: »

I made like, about 10 BG matches (maybe less) with more loses than wins and unlocked Rapid Maneuver on my new character already. Changing to Rank 5 isn't a big deal, plus Stam builds get a heal early on, which is great for new players. It's there: you just need to do some very little pvp to unlock it.

Is it great? A HOT heal and a not very good one at that for low level players, instead of the low level burst heal ZOS said they would be giving stam players? Is that what you really wanted, or are you just happy to get anything at this point, even if you know full well you are being fobbed off?

And no big deal on 1 character? True for most. Now level up another 17 and tot up the time you have just wasted for no reason whatsoever, and ask yourself if it wasn’t such a big deal. And if it still isn’t such a big deal to you, wouldn’t that imply getting vigor wasn’t that big a deal either? And if it wasn’t a big deal to get vigor, would it have been faster or slower getting it, if you had access to rapids first?

I just love when people with 17 toons ( 17! ) talking about "wasting time". Seriously , you probably "wasted" thousands of hours already. 2-3 more per toon are not going to change anything.

I just love when people don't understand the difference between playing those 17 characters in a way that you want to and chose to and enjoy.... and feeling like you have to spend work week's worth of time doing activity you do NOT enjoy, to regain acess to skill you had use of for years now.

I just love when people dont understand that i was talking about specific argument - "wasting time". Not about your "enjoyment".

Sylvermynx wrote: »

DarcyMardin wrote: »

You play the game your way and I’ll play it my way. And, incidentally, I have far more than 17. ZOS *was* getting lots of money from me every month from multiple subscriptions.

Eh, ZOS gets two six month subs from me - and that's not going to change. The bottom line for me is - I never used rapids and never will. I don't need to race around the game world for any reason.

I still hope all of you who are agonizing over the loss of rapids get them back. It's not anything I care about personally - I never used rapids and never will. And using vigor on a couple of NBs.... it's okay, but not out-of-this-world outstanding.

Same. i have 11 toons and dont use rapids at all. I dont need it for crafters , i dont need it for questing , i dont need it for bgs , i dont need it for dungeons.

but that is exactly the argument. time is NOT wasted when you are enjoying your hobby. it IS wasted when you are not. it IS wasted when you cannot move as fast as you prefer and are used to, it IS wasted when you are told that you should just spend that time in a way that you dislike to get back the thing that lead to enjoyment.

and here is the fun fact. YOU not using it doesn't mean anything in a larger scale of things. because YOUR choice =/= everyone's choice. YOUR enjoyment =/= everyone's enjoyment. its called "basic empathy" which Silvermynx has btw, because despite not using something themselves, they do wish that we could because it matters to us.

Massacre_Wurm

Linaleah wrote: »

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

esotoon wrote: »

CaptainVenom wrote: »

I made like, about 10 BG matches (maybe less) with more loses than wins and unlocked Rapid Maneuver on my new character already. Changing to Rank 5 isn't a big deal, plus Stam builds get a heal early on, which is great for new players. It's there: you just need to do some very little pvp to unlock it.

Is it great? A HOT heal and a not very good one at that for low level players, instead of the low level burst heal ZOS said they would be giving stam players? Is that what you really wanted, or are you just happy to get anything at this point, even if you know full well you are being fobbed off?

And no big deal on 1 character? True for most. Now level up another 17 and tot up the time you have just wasted for no reason whatsoever, and ask yourself if it wasn’t such a big deal. And if it still isn’t such a big deal to you, wouldn’t that imply getting vigor wasn’t that big a deal either? And if it wasn’t a big deal to get vigor, would it have been faster or slower getting it, if you had access to rapids first?

I just love when people with 17 toons ( 17! ) talking about "wasting time". Seriously , you probably "wasted" thousands of hours already. 2-3 more per toon are not going to change anything.

I just love when people don't understand the difference between playing those 17 characters in a way that you want to and chose to and enjoy.... and feeling like you have to spend work week's worth of time doing activity you do NOT enjoy, to regain acess to skill you had use of for years now.

I just love when people dont understand that i was talking about specific argument - "wasting time". Not about your "enjoyment".

Sylvermynx wrote: »

DarcyMardin wrote: »

You play the game your way and I’ll play it my way. And, incidentally, I have far more than 17. ZOS *was* getting lots of money from me every month from multiple subscriptions.

Eh, ZOS gets two six month subs from me - and that's not going to change. The bottom line for me is - I never used rapids and never will. I don't need to race around the game world for any reason.

I still hope all of you who are agonizing over the loss of rapids get them back. It's not anything I care about personally - I never used rapids and never will. And using vigor on a couple of NBs.... it's okay, but not out-of-this-world outstanding.

Same. i have 11 toons and dont use rapids at all. I dont need it for crafters , i dont need it for questing , i dont need it for bgs , i dont need it for dungeons.

but that is exactly the argument. time is NOT wasted when you are enjoying your hobby. it IS wasted when you are not. it IS wasted when you cannot move as fast as you prefer and are used to, it IS wasted when you are told that you should just spend that time in a way that you dislike to get back the thing that lead to enjoyment.

and here is the fun fact. YOU not using it doesn't mean anything in a larger scale of things. because YOUR choice =/= everyone's choice. YOUR enjoyment =/= everyone's enjoyment. its called "basic empathy" which Silvermynx has btw, because despite not using something themselves, they do wish that we could because it matters to us.

I am sorry but "wasted" time have nothing to do with "enjoyment". I don't enjoy going to the dentist but its not a "wasted" time for sure. It has nothing to do with choices or empathy.

Sgrug

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

esotoon wrote: »

CaptainVenom wrote: »

I made like, about 10 BG matches (maybe less) with more loses than wins and unlocked Rapid Maneuver on my new character already. Changing to Rank 5 isn't a big deal, plus Stam builds get a heal early on, which is great for new players. It's there: you just need to do some very little pvp to unlock it.

Is it great? A HOT heal and a not very good one at that for low level players, instead of the low level burst heal ZOS said they would be giving stam players? Is that what you really wanted, or are you just happy to get anything at this point, even if you know full well you are being fobbed off?

And no big deal on 1 character? True for most. Now level up another 17 and tot up the time you have just wasted for no reason whatsoever, and ask yourself if it wasn’t such a big deal. And if it still isn’t such a big deal to you, wouldn’t that imply getting vigor wasn’t that big a deal either? And if it wasn’t a big deal to get vigor, would it have been faster or slower getting it, if you had access to rapids first?

I just love when people with 17 toons ( 17! ) talking about "wasting time". Seriously , you probably "wasted" thousands of hours already. 2-3 more per toon are not going to change anything.

I just love when people don't understand the difference between playing those 17 characters in a way that you want to and chose to and enjoy.... and feeling like you have to spend work week's worth of time doing activity you do NOT enjoy, to regain acess to skill you had use of for years now.

I just love when people dont understand that i was talking about specific argument - "wasting time". Not about your "enjoyment".

Sylvermynx wrote: »

DarcyMardin wrote: »

You play the game your way and I’ll play it my way. And, incidentally, I have far more than 17. ZOS *was* getting lots of money from me every month from multiple subscriptions.

Eh, ZOS gets two six month subs from me - and that's not going to change. The bottom line for me is - I never used rapids and never will. I don't need to race around the game world for any reason.

I still hope all of you who are agonizing over the loss of rapids get them back. It's not anything I care about personally - I never used rapids and never will. And using vigor on a couple of NBs.... it's okay, but not out-of-this-world outstanding.

Same. i have 11 toons and dont use rapids at all. I dont need it for crafters , i dont need it for questing , i dont need it for bgs , i dont need it for dungeons.

but that is exactly the argument. time is NOT wasted when you are enjoying your hobby. it IS wasted when you are not. it IS wasted when you cannot move as fast as you prefer and are used to, it IS wasted when you are told that you should just spend that time in a way that you dislike to get back the thing that lead to enjoyment.

and here is the fun fact. YOU not using it doesn't mean anything in a larger scale of things. because YOUR choice =/= everyone's choice. YOUR enjoyment =/= everyone's enjoyment. its called "basic empathy" which Silvermynx has btw, because despite not using something themselves, they do wish that we could because it matters to us.

I am sorry but "wasted" time have nothing to do with "enjoyment". I don't enjoy going to the dentist but its not a "wasted" time for sure. It has nothing to do with choices or empathy.

You go to the dentist out of a need, most would never go if it was not needed for health reasons. We play games out of wants, games are a choice of the free time we have left once all the other priorities have been attended to.

SO yes using entertainment time doing something that is not enjoyable is a waste of time and in fact one of the biggest most grotesque wastes of time that can occur. Asking, expecting or shaming a person to use what is left of their free time, in ways they find unpleasant, is as insensitive as it gets without inflicting real physical harm. The use of our time is the only thing we posses in our lives that we decide in our agency what to do with. When you impact how someone uses time you impact the most base freedom any individual has.

Elvenheart

Linaleah wrote: »

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

esotoon wrote: »

CaptainVenom wrote: »

I made like, about 10 BG matches (maybe less) with more loses than wins and unlocked Rapid Maneuver on my new character already. Changing to Rank 5 isn't a big deal, plus Stam builds get a heal early on, which is great for new players. It's there: you just need to do some very little pvp to unlock it.

Is it great? A HOT heal and a not very good one at that for low level players, instead of the low level burst heal ZOS said they would be giving stam players? Is that what you really wanted, or are you just happy to get anything at this point, even if you know full well you are being fobbed off?

And no big deal on 1 character? True for most. Now level up another 17 and tot up the time you have just wasted for no reason whatsoever, and ask yourself if it wasn’t such a big deal. And if it still isn’t such a big deal to you, wouldn’t that imply getting vigor wasn’t that big a deal either? And if it wasn’t a big deal to get vigor, would it have been faster or slower getting it, if you had access to rapids first?

I just love when people with 17 toons ( 17! ) talking about "wasting time". Seriously , you probably "wasted" thousands of hours already. 2-3 more per toon are not going to change anything.

I just love when people don't understand the difference between playing those 17 characters in a way that you want to and chose to and enjoy.... and feeling like you have to spend work week's worth of time doing activity you do NOT enjoy, to regain acess to skill you had use of for years now.

I just love when people dont understand that i was talking about specific argument - "wasting time". Not about your "enjoyment".

Sylvermynx wrote: »

DarcyMardin wrote: »

You play the game your way and I’ll play it my way. And, incidentally, I have far more than 17. ZOS *was* getting lots of money from me every month from multiple subscriptions.

Eh, ZOS gets two six month subs from me - and that's not going to change. The bottom line for me is - I never used rapids and never will. I don't need to race around the game world for any reason.

I still hope all of you who are agonizing over the loss of rapids get them back. It's not anything I care about personally - I never used rapids and never will. And using vigor on a couple of NBs.... it's okay, but not out-of-this-world outstanding.

Same. i have 11 toons and dont use rapids at all. I dont need it for crafters , i dont need it for questing , i dont need it for bgs , i dont need it for dungeons.

but that is exactly the argument. time is NOT wasted when you are enjoying your hobby. it IS wasted when you are not. it IS wasted when you cannot move as fast as you prefer and are used to, it IS wasted when you are told that you should just spend that time in a way that you dislike to get back the thing that lead to enjoyment.

and here is the fun fact. YOU not using it doesn't mean anything in a larger scale of things. because YOUR choice =/= everyone's choice. YOUR enjoyment =/= everyone's enjoyment. its called "basic empathy" which Silvermynx has btw, because despite not using something themselves, they do wish that we could because it matters to us.

QFT! 🙂

JoeCapricorn

Linaleah wrote: »

but that is exactly the argument. time is NOT wasted when you are enjoying your hobby. it IS wasted when you are not. it IS wasted when you cannot move as fast as you prefer and are used to, it IS wasted when you are told that you should just spend that time in a way that you dislike to get back the thing that lead to enjoyment.

and here is the fun fact. YOU not using it doesn't mean anything in a larger scale of things. because YOUR choice =/= everyone's choice. YOUR enjoyment =/= everyone's enjoyment. its called "basic empathy" which Silvermynx has btw, because despite not using something themselves, they do wish that we could because it matters to us.

Elvenheart

It’s kind of intriguing to me that there is an interesting group of people who keep trying to derail this thread by criticizing the play styles of the players who simply want to send a message to the developers that we are not happy with this change and why. They keep trying to tear down and belittle our reasons, and can’t seem to understand why we don’t suddenly change our minds and agree with their point of view. Sound familiar?

Since based on the title of this thread whether they use rapids or not or if they are against changing it back or against making both skills available at the same time ISN’T the topic of this thread, this one would like to respectfully suggest that they start THEIR OWN thread called “Don’t give rapids back to ANYONE because WE don’t use it!” And fill their thread full of posts supporting why they think that way. I for one would enjoy reading that thread because it would have to be very creative, but I would not be posting there because that would be THEIR thread for expounding THEIR point of view, not ours 😇