Please give us back Rapid Maneuver!

DarcyMardin

Hurbster wrote: »

They will do what they always do, keep it quiet until it dies down. Or make an off-hand comment in a live-stream or something and laugh it off.

Oh, I agree, but I will still keep posting as long as the discussion continues. They’re losing two subscriptions from me over this — one that has been subbed for years and the other, my new account that I was about to sub with since inventory management on my 6 new characters is a nightmare. But the achingly slow speed with which those new characters, lacking any CP, are forced to move around now that their Rapids has been stripped away is infuriating enough to make me stop forking over monthly subscription fees to ZOS.

WARchief10K

Triballian wrote: »

If you can pve you can pvp. I've met plenty of people that are 50+ in pvp.

Being scared of something you seemingly haven't even tried, seems kinda closed minded.

HOWEVER. ZOS what you're doing to your fans is unethical, but rapids is a tiny fraction of it.

EA already went through being shamed and exposed for loot box practices....yet we have even worse present in ESO.

JoeCapricorn

harvey07 wrote: »

i would love it back as well...but i have a feeling they are just going to let this die down. they will either give us a distraction to this issue or just keep this thread on ignore.

I don't think this is going to die down. I won't let it die down, personally, because it is a fight I feel is worth fighting. On the internet. Not many of those.

This change just affected a very large portion of the playerbase. The consequences are that it essentially shutters Rapid Maneuver behind a wall of anxiety (and even arthritis) for some who prefer not to PVP.

A counterpoint to the idea that a player could lazy score AP by following a zergball: Not everyone has beastly PCs. Such a large number of players all fighting and throwing off skills, even from a distance, might make the game unplayable. Large scale PVP could be avoided by some players for this reason, because of the performance impact. Believe it or not, THIS is what convinced me to upgrade my computer in the first place back in 2014! I spent a few minutes in Cyrodiil after hitting level 10 during a November 2013 beta. I wanted to check it out. A zerg rush appeared out of nowhere, and my system was so taxed (at the time it was running a dual core Core2 processor with two Geforce 8800 GTX cards in SLI) that the game crashed. By the time ESO released, I got a new computer that spring.

I really think the best thing for ZOS to do is to just restore Rapids. The sooner that happens the better, and then we can get on with our lives.

OldManJim

WeerW3ir wrote: »

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

harvey07 wrote: »

i would love it back as well...but i have a feeling they are just going to let this die down. they will either give us a distraction to this issue or just keep this thread on ignore.

I don't think this is going to die down. I won't let it die down, personally, because it is a fight I feel is worth fighting. On the internet. Not many of those.

This change just affected a very large portion of the playerbase. The consequences are that it essentially shutters Rapid Maneuver behind a wall of anxiety (and even arthritis) for some who prefer not to PVP.

A counterpoint to the idea that a player could lazy score AP by following a zergball: Not everyone has beastly PCs. Such a large number of players all fighting and throwing off skills, even from a distance, might make the game unplayable. Large scale PVP could be avoided by some players for this reason, because of the performance impact. Believe it or not, THIS is what convinced me to upgrade my computer in the first place back in 2014! I spent a few minutes in Cyrodiil after hitting level 10 during a November 2013 beta. I wanted to check it out. A zerg rush appeared out of nowhere, and my system was so taxed (at the time it was running a dual core Core2 processor with two Geforce 8800 GTX cards in SLI) that the game crashed. By the time ESO released, I got a new computer that spring.

I really think the best thing for ZOS to do is to just restore Rapids. The sooner that happens the better, and then we can get on with our lives.

[Quoted post was removed]

Thank you for posting. It helps keep the issue on the front page.

Nicole94

OldManJim wrote: »

WeerW3ir wrote: »

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

harvey07 wrote: »

i would love it back as well...but i have a feeling they are just going to let this die down. they will either give us a distraction to this issue or just keep this thread on ignore.

I don't think this is going to die down. I won't let it die down, personally, because it is a fight I feel is worth fighting. On the internet. Not many of those.

This change just affected a very large portion of the playerbase. The consequences are that it essentially shutters Rapid Maneuver behind a wall of anxiety (and even arthritis) for some who prefer not to PVP.

A counterpoint to the idea that a player could lazy score AP by following a zergball: Not everyone has beastly PCs. Such a large number of players all fighting and throwing off skills, even from a distance, might make the game unplayable. Large scale PVP could be avoided by some players for this reason, because of the performance impact. Believe it or not, THIS is what convinced me to upgrade my computer in the first place back in 2014! I spent a few minutes in Cyrodiil after hitting level 10 during a November 2013 beta. I wanted to check it out. A zerg rush appeared out of nowhere, and my system was so taxed (at the time it was running a dual core Core2 processor with two Geforce 8800 GTX cards in SLI) that the game crashed. By the time ESO released, I got a new computer that spring.

I really think the best thing for ZOS to do is to just restore Rapids. The sooner that happens the better, and then we can get on with our lives.

[Quoted post was removed]

Thank you for posting. It helps keep the issue on the front page.

Well played

Iluvrien

WeerW3ir wrote: »

OldManJim wrote: »

WeerW3ir wrote: »

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

harvey07 wrote: »

i would love it back as well...but i have a feeling they are just going to let this die down. they will either give us a distraction to this issue or just keep this thread on ignore.

I don't think this is going to die down. I won't let it die down, personally, because it is a fight I feel is worth fighting. On the internet. Not many of those.

This change just affected a very large portion of the playerbase. The consequences are that it essentially shutters Rapid Maneuver behind a wall of anxiety (and even arthritis) for some who prefer not to PVP.

A counterpoint to the idea that a player could lazy score AP by following a zergball: Not everyone has beastly PCs. Such a large number of players all fighting and throwing off skills, even from a distance, might make the game unplayable. Large scale PVP could be avoided by some players for this reason, because of the performance impact. Believe it or not, THIS is what convinced me to upgrade my computer in the first place back in 2014! I spent a few minutes in Cyrodiil after hitting level 10 during a November 2013 beta. I wanted to check it out. A zerg rush appeared out of nowhere, and my system was so taxed (at the time it was running a dual core Core2 processor with two Geforce 8800 GTX cards in SLI) that the game crashed. By the time ESO released, I got a new computer that spring.

I really think the best thing for ZOS to do is to just restore Rapids. The sooner that happens the better, and then we can get on with our lives.

Just. Give. Up. Already.
And move away with your life.

Thank you for posting. It helps keep the issue on the front page.

So they can continue to ignore it? ;D should i say its good to see you guys so obsessed with it that under it. while still being mad. could have farm it countless times XDD

Beside. dont you think. if the issue would be so game breaking. they would have already answer and react?

There is a difference between obsession, and having the capacity to pay attention to an issue for more than a couple of days.

If something continues to be a problem, why would anyone suddenly forget about it?

Pevey

1) This skill was never intended to be purely PVP. If it had been, they would have simply made alliance war skills not work in pve. They did not. Smokescreen.

2) This change is not about vigor. That is the reasoning they chose to share because then there are “two sides,” some people arguing in favor because they want vigor earlier. They could have simply make vigor unlock at rank 3 instead of rank 5. Critical reasoning skills are useful sometimes. This has nothing to do with Vigor. Don’t take everything at face value.

3) A game should never gratuitously take away something the player has already attained. This is the opposite of fun and not what you want for a game ever.

Wytch

Here is something that they need to seriously think about. I had a pretty useful skill on all my alts and my main. It got taken away so that now only my main has it. I have stopped playing my alts because it's so slow that it's simply not fun anymore. Instead of being a fun escape from reality, It's now a reminder that I have been betrayed and lied to. Remember "play your way?" Simply put, it's wrong to force me (and I know I am not alone in this) into a toxic environment that I hate just to get back something I had for years. Look at what's going on in the world. Even if I could afford the 30 bux per alt to buy the assault/support skill line combos, it would still be forcing me into that toxic environment that I hate to get my main maxed out just to be able to buy the skill lines on my alts.

So, my options are to find something else fun to spend my very limited time and money on... or subject myself to everything I hate about the game but was able to avoid before...

But wait! There's more!

See, even if Rapids were to be put back or moved to be much easier or whatever right now, I still don't know what I would do. Trust has been broken. Not just with this change either, this was just the final straw, so to speak.

So, the real questions are... how many more feel the same? and what can be done to win us back?

The now usual DISCLAIMER: This post is expressing my opinions and feelings. It in no way bashes or baits. The usual bit about saving a copy to prove this post existed etc etc ad infinitem. 09.05.2020 11:04

Jaraal

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

A counterpoint to the idea that a player could lazy score AP by following a zergball: Not everyone has beastly PCs. Such a large number of players all fighting and throwing off skills, even from a distance, might make the game unplayable. Large scale PVP could be avoided by some players for this reason, because of the performance impact.

It's even worse with the new gap closer disabling bug they introduced in Cyrodiil and Imperial City. Sucks to die to other players and lose tel var when it's not even your fault.

DigitalHype

DarcyMardin wrote: »

Hurbster wrote: »

They will do what they always do, keep it quiet until it dies down. Or make an off-hand comment in a live-stream or something and laugh it off.

Oh, I agree, but I will still keep posting as long as the discussion continues. They’re losing two subscriptions from me over this — one that has been subbed for years and the other, my new account that I was about to sub with since inventory management on my 6 new characters is a nightmare. But the achingly slow speed with which those new characters, lacking any CP, are forced to move around now that their Rapids has been stripped away is infuriating enough to make me stop forking over monthly subscription fees to ZOS.

For every sub they lost, they gained 100's of purchases of Assault skill line in the crown store at 3000 crowns each. There are plenty of people in my guilds that had no issue spending the crowns to unlock the skill line on their alts which were below rank 5, just so they could immediately get back the rapids to keep up.

Linaleah

DigitalHype wrote: »

DarcyMardin wrote: »

Hurbster wrote: »

They will do what they always do, keep it quiet until it dies down. Or make an off-hand comment in a live-stream or something and laugh it off.

Oh, I agree, but I will still keep posting as long as the discussion continues. They’re losing two subscriptions from me over this — one that has been subbed for years and the other, my new account that I was about to sub with since inventory management on my 6 new characters is a nightmare. But the achingly slow speed with which those new characters, lacking any CP, are forced to move around now that their Rapids has been stripped away is infuriating enough to make me stop forking over monthly subscription fees to ZOS.

For every sub they lost, they gained 100's of purchases of Assault skill line in the crown store at 3000 crowns each. There are plenty of people in my guilds that had no issue spending the crowns to unlock the skill line on their alts which were below rank 5, just so they could immediately get back the rapids to keep up.

and that is probably the reason WHY they did it and its also the reason why we have to keep speaking up instead of just letting it go. because monetization will just keep. getting. worse. at least if we speak up, we might slow down/reduce just how bad it can get.

Wytch

Linaleah wrote: »

DigitalHype wrote: »

DarcyMardin wrote: »

Hurbster wrote: »

They will do what they always do, keep it quiet until it dies down. Or make an off-hand comment in a live-stream or something and laugh it off.

Oh, I agree, but I will still keep posting as long as the discussion continues. They’re losing two subscriptions from me over this — one that has been subbed for years and the other, my new account that I was about to sub with since inventory management on my 6 new characters is a nightmare. But the achingly slow speed with which those new characters, lacking any CP, are forced to move around now that their Rapids has been stripped away is infuriating enough to make me stop forking over monthly subscription fees to ZOS.

For every sub they lost, they gained 100's of purchases of Assault skill line in the crown store at 3000 crowns each. There are plenty of people in my guilds that had no issue spending the crowns to unlock the skill line on their alts which were below rank 5, just so they could immediately get back the rapids to keep up.

and that is probably the reason WHY they did it and its also the reason why we have to keep speaking up instead of just letting it go. because monetization will just keep. getting. worse. at least if we speak up, we might slow down/reduce just how bad it can get.

You're not wrong. This has the slimy feeling of extortion all over it. "This skill you've had for years? It's moved now... you can suffer a bunch of times to get it back or suffer once and pay us way too much money to get it back."

And you know what the next step is, right? Pay to win.

Rexy18

Hurbster wrote: »

For every sub they lost, they gained 100's of purchases of Assault skill line in the crown store at 3000 crowns each. There are plenty of people in my guilds that had no issue spending the crowns to unlock the skill line on their alts which were below rank 5, just so they could immediately get back the rapids to keep up.

£19 vs 1 hour in Cyro (30 mins during double AP or 1 hour for those under level 50), how stupid do you have to be to buy this stuff (unless it's giftable?). These people are probably the same ones spending £1k+ on crates and the reason it's extremely unlikely Zeni will revert the changes regardless of how active this thread is kept up.

silvereyes

DigitalHype wrote: »

For every sub they lost, they gained 100's of purchases of Assault skill line in the crown store at 3000 crowns each.

This argument would make more sense to me if you could pay to skip the content entirely, but you have to fully level the Assault skill line on at least on character. I assume that most of the people upset by this change are those who don't spend much time in PvP to begin with, and probably don't have the Alliance War Skill Master achievement.

I've been playing since beta, and while I enjoy Cyro a lot, I generally enjoy other aspects of the game more. My Assault line is still rank 7, even after years of double-AP events and periodic excursions into Cyro and Battlegrounds.

Even if I did have it unlocked, spending 3k crowns for every one of my non-PvP alts for a single skill is a terrible deal. 3k is a convenience fee for the kind of player that wants to roll a new PvP character and wants to get to max level immediately. It's not priced low enough to tempt someone who doesn't care about 60% of the skills or any of the passives.

DarcyMardin

DigitalHype wrote: »

DarcyMardin wrote: »

Hurbster wrote: »

They will do what they always do, keep it quiet until it dies down. Or make an off-hand comment in a live-stream or something and laugh it off.

Oh, I agree, but I will still keep posting as long as the discussion continues. They’re losing two subscriptions from me over this — one that has been subbed for years and the other, my new account that I was about to sub with since inventory management on my 6 new characters is a nightmare. But the achingly slow speed with which those new characters, lacking any CP, are forced to move around now that their Rapids has been stripped away is infuriating enough to make me stop forking over monthly subscription fees to ZOS.

For every sub they lost, they gained 100's of purchases of Assault skill line in the crown store at 3000 crowns each. There are plenty of people in my guilds that had no issue spending the crowns to unlock the skill line on their alts which were below rank 5, just so they could immediately get back the rapids to keep up.

That’s probably true, but they won’t be getting that cash from me, which is my only way to protest. I’m not quitting playing — I love this game. I’m just quitting *paying* to play. And I’ll probably stick to playing my many old characters who already have attained level 5 in assault and still have rapids rather than my new ones who are now crawling around the landscape without Rapids.

Linaleah

Rexy18 wrote: »

Hurbster wrote: »

For every sub they lost, they gained 100's of purchases of Assault skill line in the crown store at 3000 crowns each. There are plenty of people in my guilds that had no issue spending the crowns to unlock the skill line on their alts which were below rank 5, just so they could immediately get back the rapids to keep up.

£19 vs 1 hour in Cyro (30 mins during double AP or 1 hour for those under level 50), how stupid do you have to be to buy this stuff (unless it's giftable?). These people are probably the same ones spending £1k+ on crates and the reason it's extremely unlikely Zeni will revert the changes regardless of how active this thread is kept up.

its not giftable, but there are people who make that in half an hour or less in their day job. and would rather just pay then do something they actively dislike with whatever limited leisure time they have.

also, that time you just said? TRIPLE it at a minimum. there is literally a video in this very thread, that shows you get 30k ap in half an hour during double ap week and that video starts IN the castle so doesn't include travel time. you need 90k ish to actualy unlock rank 5.

Linaleah

DarcyMardin wrote: »

DigitalHype wrote: »

DarcyMardin wrote: »

Hurbster wrote: »

They will do what they always do, keep it quiet until it dies down. Or make an off-hand comment in a live-stream or something and laugh it off.

Oh, I agree, but I will still keep posting as long as the discussion continues. They’re losing two subscriptions from me over this — one that has been subbed for years and the other, my new account that I was about to sub with since inventory management on my 6 new characters is a nightmare. But the achingly slow speed with which those new characters, lacking any CP, are forced to move around now that their Rapids has been stripped away is infuriating enough to make me stop forking over monthly subscription fees to ZOS.

For every sub they lost, they gained 100's of purchases of Assault skill line in the crown store at 3000 crowns each. There are plenty of people in my guilds that had no issue spending the crowns to unlock the skill line on their alts which were below rank 5, just so they could immediately get back the rapids to keep up.

That’s probably true, but they won’t be getting that cash from me, which is my only way to protest. I’m not quitting playing — I love this game. I’m just quitting *paying* to play. And I’ll probably stick to playing my many old characters who already have attained level 5 in assault and still have rapids rather than my new ones who are now crawling around the landscape without Rapids.

same, basically. I actualy used to buy crowns way back when. there were other changes that made me not want to anymore - even before gold to crown gifts exchange. the main reason I still have subscription at this point is because I like housing and decorating without it is... not great. but I have been heading to a point where I still enjoy stories, but once their done, I have been playing less and less. few more of the changes like that and I'll best case scenario will subscribe for a month to play all the included story based DLC's and then play something else again. its not any sort of threat or a tantrum. I have merely learned to recognize the signs from the something similar happening with other MMO's I used to play. the whole subscribe for a month once a year to play through new stories and leave again? is what I've been doing with SWTOR for the last few years. and I used to love playing SWTOR a heck of a lot more then I ever loved playing ESO. so.... /shrug.

I guess in a way, seeing as developers in different games, make unpopular choices despite feedback and don't try to fix them until years later and most of their population gone - should tell me that these feedback may not accomplish what I hope it will. but the only way to fail for sure is to not try at all.

Rexy18

Linaleah wrote: »

Rexy18 wrote: »

Hurbster wrote: »

For every sub they lost, they gained 100's of purchases of Assault skill line in the crown store at 3000 crowns each. There are plenty of people in my guilds that had no issue spending the crowns to unlock the skill line on their alts which were below rank 5, just so they could immediately get back the rapids to keep up.

£19 vs 1 hour in Cyro (30 mins during double AP or 1 hour for those under level 50), how stupid do you have to be to buy this stuff (unless it's giftable?). These people are probably the same ones spending £1k+ on crates and the reason it's extremely unlikely Zeni will revert the changes regardless of how active this thread is kept up.

its not giftable, but there are people who make that in half an hour or less in their day job. and would rather just pay then do something they actively dislike with whatever limited leisure time they have.

also, that time you just said? TRIPLE it at a minimum. there is literally a video in this very thread, that shows you get 30k ap in half an hour during double ap week and that video starts IN the castle so doesn't include travel time. you need 90k ish to actualy unlock rank 5.

Yeah, the timeframe is specifically for level 50 chars with 40-60 points into mount speed (if you're under 50 then there are a lot more variables and can take 3+ hours if you're unlucky).

A dedicated ballgroup can play on as much as 120-150k+/hour (98k needed for rapids), though I get that's not accessible for most people. As a test I went to Cyro (solo) on 2 chars without slotting rapids, my sorc managed to get 98k in 1h 4m, my DK in 1h 12m (both running in crafted/bought sets). I did miss a tick here and there but just resources. I guess a common issue is people coming to Cyro with PvE stuff and dying quickly.

33k/hour is quite low but my opinion as a PvPer might be a bit skewed. Still, if you're playing on less than 40-45k/hour, it might be beneficial to come back another day (sometimes there are days where your alliance is just not doing anything) instead of torturing yourself with 3+ hours of content you don't like.

If you have an unleveled mount then these times can be higher.

Either way, everyone should do their grind during the AoE testing (and not necessarily in prime time, you can make a surprisingly high amount of AP during mornings/late night).

Edit: before anyone starts flaming me and calling me a liar and whatnot, I also disagree with the rapids change, just trying to give a bit of advice here.

Linaleah

Rexy18 wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Rexy18 wrote: »

Hurbster wrote: »

For every sub they lost, they gained 100's of purchases of Assault skill line in the crown store at 3000 crowns each. There are plenty of people in my guilds that had no issue spending the crowns to unlock the skill line on their alts which were below rank 5, just so they could immediately get back the rapids to keep up.

£19 vs 1 hour in Cyro (30 mins during double AP or 1 hour for those under level 50), how stupid do you have to be to buy this stuff (unless it's giftable?). These people are probably the same ones spending £1k+ on crates and the reason it's extremely unlikely Zeni will revert the changes regardless of how active this thread is kept up.

its not giftable, but there are people who make that in half an hour or less in their day job. and would rather just pay then do something they actively dislike with whatever limited leisure time they have.

also, that time you just said? TRIPLE it at a minimum. there is literally a video in this very thread, that shows you get 30k ap in half an hour during double ap week and that video starts IN the castle so doesn't include travel time. you need 90k ish to actualy unlock rank 5.

Yeah, the timeframe is specifically for level 50 chars with 40-60 points into mount speed (if you're under 50 then there are a lot more variables and can take 3+ hours if you're unlucky).

A dedicated ballgroup can play on as much as 120-150k+/hour (98k needed for rapids), though I get that's not accessible for most people. As a test I went to Cyro (solo) on 2 chars without slotting rapids, my sorc managed to get 98k in 1h 4m, my DK in 1h 12m (both running in crafted/bought sets). I did miss a tick here and there but just resources. I guess a common issue is people coming to Cyro with PvE stuff and dying quickly.

33k/hour is quite low but my opinion as a PvPer might be a bit skewed. Still, if you're playing on less than 40-45k/hour, it might be beneficial to come back another day (sometimes there are days where your alliance is just not doing anything) instead of torturing yourself with 3+ hours of content you don't like.

If you have an unleveled mount then these times can be higher.

Either way, everyone should do their grind during the AoE testing (and not necessarily in prime time, you can make a surprisingly high amount of AP during mornings/late night).

Edit: before anyone starts flaming me and calling me a liar and whatnot, I also disagree with the rapids change, just trying to give a bit of advice here.

advice is appreciate, but it is most definitely skewed, towards someone who actively enjoys/pursues pvp, who either has dedicated groups or has good means of finding them.

people here who have lost acess to rapids on multiple characters (me included) generally do NOT enjoy pvp, do NOT have characters that are anywhere near being set up for pvp environments, maybe not be playing during hours where ap acquisition is best maximized... or on an alliance that is most conductive to it. our realistic options tend to amount to repairing castle walls and doors. for those of us who don't hate pvp as much - battlegrounds can also be an option, HOWEVER. and this is from personal experience. queues can take some time. even while actualy trying my best - the most kills I've ever gotten in a battleground was 6 in a match. that was in deathmatch, btw. I tend to die in a ratio of 3 deaths or more for every kill. on a good day. I still found it to be slightly faster then trying to level in Cyrodil

I leveled couple of characters to assault/support 5 or was it 6? not 100% sure, but essentially one of them played enough to unlock caltrops, the other 4 - to get purge and warhorn. all of those were leveled specifically to get those abilities for pve purposes. starting with third characters, I switched entirely to leveling via battlegrounds as as strange as it sounds, i found it less frustrating that going solo into Cyrodil. probably cause even if you lose, as long as you try to participate - you still get some AP, while in Cyro if you are not sure where you are going or what you are doing and aren't lucky enough to secure an invite into a dedicated AP farming group - you can go for hour or more and barely move that AP xp bar

at this point the thought if taking every single one of my farming characters through this... for hours... is the exact opposite of appealing.

renne

Rexy18 wrote: »

Either way, everyone should do their grind during the AoE testing (and not necessarily in prime time, you can make a surprisingly high amount of AP during mornings/late night).

It's easy enough to say "do it during AOE testing for double AP", but that means jack for the poor folk on console who don't even get this consolation of double AP to help get back something they've had in many cases for literal years.

The thing that gets me is that someone who was grinding for vigor at level 5 was almost always on the toon they wanted it for, and going for vigor, by nature of being heal skill, meant that the toon was a combat toon already. Sure. Mightn't be great for PvP, but at least they can pretend to put up a fight.

Now you have all these people with their crafters, farmers and mules being forced to spend extended periods of time in Battlegrounds/Cyro with toons that are barely even PvE toons, getting abused by folk because they can't contribute, getting farmed for easy AP by PvPers while just trying to get to objectives in Cyro, like... even if I wasn't someone who wanted it changed back or rapids at least made level 1 support, I could completely understand why people are upset with this change.

Your advice is good and I hope it helps folk, BUT giving stats and times on how "easy" it is to get AP when you're a PvPer with PvP gear and knowledge of how to play it is way different from someone who might have only ever stuck their nose into Cyro to unlock the skill on each toon and then ignored the place for the rest of the time. If you're on a PvE toon with PvE gear even set up as a combat toon it's a significantly harder an experience than as a PvPer just cruising around solo "easily" getting 98k - YOU know what you're doing there. You know where you have to be to get good ticks and can make sure you are. You're geared out for it. You can kill other players and not be like "why tf are my skills doing basically no damage???"

(And it's also not to say it can't be done. I'm a PvEer who has Assault/Support level 10 and is level 20 Alliance rank.)

But honestly, for where I'm coming from with my own experienced in Cyro? 33k/hour might seem low to you, but to me that seems like a reasonable amount someone who's been forced to go into PvP to get their skills back, especially if it's not a toon that's optimised for ANY combat.

Nicole94

Linaleah wrote: »

Rexy18 wrote: »

Hurbster wrote: »

For every sub they lost, they gained 100's of purchases of Assault skill line in the crown store at 3000 crowns each. There are plenty of people in my guilds that had no issue spending the crowns to unlock the skill line on their alts which were below rank 5, just so they could immediately get back the rapids to keep up.

£19 vs 1 hour in Cyro (30 mins during double AP or 1 hour for those under level 50), how stupid do you have to be to buy this stuff (unless it's giftable?). These people are probably the same ones spending £1k+ on crates and the reason it's extremely unlikely Zeni will revert the changes regardless of how active this thread is kept up.

its not giftable, but there are people who make that in half an hour or less in their day job. and would rather just pay then do something they actively dislike with whatever limited leisure time they have.

also, that time you just said? TRIPLE it at a minimum. there is literally a video in this very thread, that shows you get 30k ap in half an hour during double ap week and that video starts IN the castle so doesn't include travel time. you need 90k ish to actualy unlock rank 5.

The video posted about the 30k AP gain costs AT LEAST 60k AP to buy the repair kits or about 30k gold. IF you are a new player you have NO ACCESS to either of those. This "tip" is only useful for actual pvper's like myself, or at least long time players, and I didn't need it.
This entire thread is a product of ZoS misrepresentation. This should have NEVER been allowed to devolve into a flame war between players in the game that we all love. It should have always placed the responsibly on ZoS for completely ignoring the PTS, overwhelmingly NEGATIVE feedback on this change. The ONLY time we have even heard from ZoS is when they tell us "to play nice" on these forums.
Rapid maneuver has always been Rank 2 and they moved Vigor to rank 3. There is NO reason they moved the rapid maneuver to the 5th rank at all! Both could have unlocked after the tutorial giving you the CHOICE of which skill you wanted, or even both of them if you needed it and had the skill points. It was a terrible and poorly planned exchange. A plan that already had overwhelming disapproval on the PTS and ALSO IGNORED. There has been no "official response" or any reason as to why they decided this was a good idea. Instead ZoS has allowed rumors and speculation about "crown riding lessons" "2 person mounts" "and purchasing of Alliance War skill line" to become actual focal points.
Players upset by the change have voiced their opinions only to bet met with other players telling them "how easy it is" when they didn't ASK for that, they wanted to know WHY rapids had to be removed and wanted it BACK. NOT tips on how to acquire it. They wanted to hear from the DEVS on a reason. A reason that SHOULD HAVE been given immediately!
I started my journey with ESO on 03/02/2014 and this kind of lack of respect for their player base is unacceptable!

I ENJOY pvp, and have several characters with max Alliance war skill, I forget my highest ranking, because I do not care about that. I just like the dyes I unlock. Just because I ENJOY it, doesn't mean everyone has too.

[Edit to remove bait]

renne

Literally just tried to ride from Arrius to Drakelowe to get to a keep being attacked by my alliance to level a toon that doesn't get to have rapids anymore, and on a mount with fully levelled speed, the keep was in sight when it flipped and I didn't make it.

This is great, ZoS!! This is so much fun!!! I love riding across Cyrodiil just to be late for everything!!

At least when that happens on a toon WITH rapids it's NOT because you're too frigging slow to get there in time.

"It's EASY to level to get rapids again!"

Can't level to get rapids again if you can't make it to a keep to get the tick that will allow you to level up in order to get rapids again.

Ackwalan

renne wrote: »

Literally just tried to ride from Arrius to Drakelowe to get to a keep being attacked by my alliance to level a toon that doesn't get to have rapids anymore, and on a mount with fully levelled speed, the keep was in sight when it flipped and I didn't make it.

This is great, ZoS!! This is so much fun!!! I love riding across Cyrodiil just to be late for everything!!

At least when that happens on a toon WITH rapids it's NOT because you're too frigging slow to get there in time.

"It's EASY to level to get rapids again!"

Can't level to get rapids again if you can't make it to a keep to get the tick that will allow you to level up in order to get rapids again.

Even with rapids, that happens all the time.

nukk3r

Linaleah wrote: »

also, that time you just said? TRIPLE it at a minimum. there is literally a video in this very thread, that shows you get 30k ap in half an hour during double ap week and that video starts IN the castle so doesn't include travel time.

Stop lying to people. The video was made on August 31, 2020 when no double AP event was active. And it starts at base, not in the keep.

Elvenheart

Nicole94 wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Rexy18 wrote: »

Hurbster wrote: »

For every sub they lost, they gained 100's of purchases of Assault skill line in the crown store at 3000 crowns each. There are plenty of people in my guilds that had no issue spending the crowns to unlock the skill line on their alts which were below rank 5, just so they could immediately get back the rapids to keep up.

£19 vs 1 hour in Cyro (30 mins during double AP or 1 hour for those under level 50), how stupid do you have to be to buy this stuff (unless it's giftable?). These people are probably the same ones spending £1k+ on crates and the reason it's extremely unlikely Zeni will revert the changes regardless of how active this thread is kept up.

its not giftable, but there are people who make that in half an hour or less in their day job. and would rather just pay then do something they actively dislike with whatever limited leisure time they have.

also, that time you just said? TRIPLE it at a minimum. there is literally a video in this very thread, that shows you get 30k ap in half an hour during double ap week and that video starts IN the castle so doesn't include travel time. you need 90k ish to actualy unlock rank 5.

The video posted about the 30k AP gain costs AT LEAST 60k AP to buy the repair kits or about 30k gold. IF you are a new player you have NO ACCESS to either of those. This "tip" is only useful for actual pvper's like myself, or at least long time players, and I didn't need it.
This entire thread is a product of ZoS misrepresentation. This should have NEVER been allowed to devolve into a flame war between players in the game that we all love. It should have always placed the responsibly on ZoS for completely ignoring the PTS, overwhelmingly NEGATIVE feedback on this change. The ONLY time we have even heard from ZoS is when they tell us "to play nice" on these forums.
Rapid maneuver has always been Rank 2 and they moved Vigor to rank 3. There is NO reason they moved the rapid maneuver to the 5th rank at all! Both could have unlocked after the tutorial giving you the CHOICE of which skill you wanted, or even both of them if you needed it and had the skill points. It was a terrible and poorly planned exchange. A plan that already had overwhelming disapproval on the PTS and ALSO IGNORED. There has been no "official response" or any reason as to why they decided this was a good idea. Instead ZoS has allowed rumors and speculation about "crown riding lessons" "2 person mounts" "and purchasing of Alliance War skill line" to become actual focal points.
Players upset by the change have voiced their opinions only to bet met with other players telling them "how easy it is" when they didn't ASK for that, they wanted to know WHY rapids had to be removed and wanted it BACK. NOT tips on how to acquire it. They wanted to hear from the DEVS on a reason. A reason that SHOULD HAVE been given immediately!
I started my journey with ESO on 03/02/2014 and this kind of lack of respect for their player base is unacceptable!

I ENJOY pvp, and have several characters with max Alliance war skill, I forget my highest ranking, because I do not care about that. I just like the dyes I unlock. Just because I ENJOY it, doesn't mean everyone has too.

You articulate very well what I’ve been trying to say all along 🙂

markulrich1966

I leveled 2 toons up, from assault 2 to 5. No AP Bonus (xbox).

Both cp810, PVE setups. Have some PVP experience (first sergeant).
Riding skill 60, but low riding stamina, so they drain out of stamina within 10 seconds.

Good conditions, my faction dominated the map. Took several keeps, and in between I soloed several resources.

Time for both: 7 hours
And I have many more

A complete evening wasted for nothing, useless grinding at a new level. "thanks" ZOS!

Linaleah

nukk3r wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

also, that time you just said? TRIPLE it at a minimum. there is literally a video in this very thread, that shows you get 30k ap in half an hour during double ap week and that video starts IN the castle so doesn't include travel time.

Stop lying to people. The video was made on August 31, 2020 when no double AP event was active. And it starts at base, not in the keep.

I'm not lying, that week had double AP because they were testing changes. it was NOT a double AP event or anything, it was just there for the sake of testing. and I'm pretty sure it starts on loading screen INTO the keep.

regardless the other poster replying to me, did point out the part i have forgotten to mention. that those kits cost an investment of gold to buy. and elsewhere in this thread - calculations were made that its NOT in fact self sustaining and it takes more AP to buy enough kits to hit rank 5 then the amount of AP you earn while getting there.

and in any case, I brought up that video because ironically? it was made to show how EASY it is to get rapids again, and fantastically, resoundingly proved the exact opposite.

@Nicole94

I'm not sure why you are yelling at me. we are on the same side here. that tip is to some degree useful if you are a pve player who would rather not pvp at all, and just want your farming alts to move faster again. assumption is that you at least have some gold to throw at it.

yeah, that tip doesn't work for new players. that tip doesn't even work for old players that would rather not spend so much time regaining a skill vs playing parts of the game they actualy enjoy.

my point is - as above. even with completely pvp free option, it still. takes. a long. time. far longer then the claim of 30 minutes which was the claim I was replying to - to refute it.

nukk3r

Linaleah wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

also, that time you just said? TRIPLE it at a minimum. there is literally a video in this very thread, that shows you get 30k ap in half an hour during double ap week and that video starts IN the castle so doesn't include travel time.

Stop lying to people. The video was made on August 31, 2020 when no double AP event was active. And it starts at base, not in the keep.

I'm not lying, that week had double AP because they were testing changes. it was NOT a double AP event or anything, it was just there for the sake of testing. and I'm pretty sure it starts on loading screen INTO the keep.

The tests were postponed until September 8, that's when double AP can be earned.
I'm pretty sure it starts at base because I recorded it and you can watch it again and stop embarrassing yourself. I traveled to the keep via transitus station, they allow you to do that.

Linaleah

nukk3r wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

also, that time you just said? TRIPLE it at a minimum. there is literally a video in this very thread, that shows you get 30k ap in half an hour during double ap week and that video starts IN the castle so doesn't include travel time.

Stop lying to people. The video was made on August 31, 2020 when no double AP event was active. And it starts at base, not in the keep.

I'm not lying, that week had double AP because they were testing changes. it was NOT a double AP event or anything, it was just there for the sake of testing. and I'm pretty sure it starts on loading screen INTO the keep.

The tests were postponed until September 8, that's when double AP can be earned.
I'm pretty sure it starts at base because I recorded it and you can watch it again and stop embarrassing yourself. I traveled to the keep via transitus station, they allow you to do that.

yes. they do allow you to do that. you didn't record all of the loading screen. you didn't record looking for a keep. and I stand corrected, i was under impression that double AP WAS active.

however. my point. still. STANDS. not to mention - your experience was in a lvl 50 alliance locked campaign with apparently a bunch of active bonuses which is NOT something one would expect at all times, especially if you have alts across all 3 alliances.

neiljwd

I#ve got alts who've had this skill on their bars for SIX years.
To have something you've earned taken away after so long.
This was a miscalculated decision.