Please give us back Rapid Maneuver!

esotoon

silvereyes wrote: »

Another idea for how ZOS could help the situation: make Major and Minor Expedition affect mounted speed and get rid of Major Gallop altogether. At least then there would be a way to get the same bonus as Rapids from other sources, like Cowards Gear.

Not as good as just giving back Rapids at Alliance Rank 2 or 3, but it could at least solve the problem for crafting alts and farmers. It would also at least provide a choice to increase mount speed for people who just like to move through the world fast, although it would severely gimp their builds.

That's once again a solution that will help a portion of the population, rather than the many. How many players have cowards gear for low level toons for example?

renne

CaptainVenom wrote: »

I made like, about 10 BG matches (maybe less) with more loses than wins and unlocked Rapid Maneuver on my new character already. Changing to Rank 5 isn't a big deal, plus Stam builds get a heal early on, which is great for new players. It's there: you just need to do some very little pvp to unlock it.

New players wouldn't even know there's a stam heal on the Assault skill line. Why would they? It doesn't make any sense to have a stam heal on an PvP skill line called 'Assault' that you only get access to if you actually unlock Assault/Support.

Move vigor out of the PvP skill line entirely if you ACTUALLY want to make it ~accessible for new players, ZoS.

Jaraal

Hmmm, over a 7% drop in players on Steam in the past 30 days. Second biggest monthly drop in a year. Coincidence, or reaction to this negative QOL change?


https://steamcharts.com/app/306130

markulrich1966

Jaraal wrote: »

Hmmm, over a 7% drop in players on Steam in the past 30 days. Second biggest monthly drop in a year. Coincidence, or reaction to this negative QOL change?


https://steamcharts.com/app/306130

it was 4% a week ago, so we have another decrease from the event, which is astonishing as events usually attract more players.

Maybe they are as fedup as me, just logging in to turn in IC quests, filling up guildstore slots, then leaving again.

I am even no longer motivated to do daily crafting writs. So I just play half of the week meanwhile, in contrast to every day before.
It saves me money though. Without motivation I see no more reason to buy new stuff like the current glowing arms pack. Wasted 1k euro within 3 years, now I prefer to save this money instead to get a PC for next year, so I can switch to a very promising PC exclusive title.

Kind of sad, as it was unneccessary. I lived with bugs, and lag, as it can happen. They disturbed, but yeah, I adapted my playstyle.
But what really bugs me is the intentional harrassment of player, rapids, crystal blast, iceheart, other rapids nerf some months ago. I'm fed up by such a customer unfriendly behaviour.

esotoon

Jaraal wrote: »

Hmmm, over a 7% drop in players on Steam in the past 30 days. Second biggest monthly drop in a year. Coincidence, or reaction to this negative QOL change?


https://steamcharts.com/app/306130

Looking back through the numbers, I don't think you can draw any conclusions from one month. The numbers for each month in the past have fluctuated by greater amounts in both direction.

Even if this number did indicate anything, you still wouldn't be able to pin it on a QoL change. For instance they had greater competition this month (New Worlds beta), the patch wasn't widely welcomed, the PVP Tests and people being put of by them, etc.

It would be interesting to see how average play times compared to previous months though.

mareeelb16_ESO

And wha'd'ya know?

Crown riding lessons are on offer!

Coincidence? Not!

silvereyes

esotoon wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

Another idea for how ZOS could help the situation: make Major and Minor Expedition affect mounted speed and get rid of Major Gallop altogether. At least then there would be a way to get the same bonus as Rapids from other sources, like Cowards Gear.

Not as good as just giving back Rapids at Alliance Rank 2 or 3, but it could at least solve the problem for crafting alts and farmers. It would also at least provide a choice to increase mount speed for people who just like to move through the world fast, although it would severely gimp their builds.

That's once again a solution that will help a portion of the population, rather than the many. How many players have cowards gear for low level toons for example?

I don't disagree, which is the reason I said it's an idea for how ZOS could "help" the situation, not fix it. For the record, I would have much preferred that ZOS left all the PvP skills alone, and instead, focused on adding stamina burst heal options to the classes that lack them. Vigor is a solid skill, but it's not really the, "oh crap," burst heal that newer players need.

If ZOS wants to make stamina group healing a mainstream option, then they have a LOT more work to do than just making Vigor more accessible.

PizzaCat82

I'd just like to add that Vigor sucks as a primary heal. If you're using it against someone who's bursting you down, you're already dead.

Give us Rapids back.

JoeCapricorn

Another thought occurred to me...

I have ASD, Autism Spectrum Disorder (formerly known as Asperger's Syndrome). I have social anxiety and social awkwardness, specific interests, compulsions and tics.

I know I am not the only one who has ASD who plays Elder Scrolls Online.

Now imagine someone with a slightly more severe form of autism, but they get into ESO and get used to some of the things.

A change such as putting Rapids at a higher requirement might make it inaccessible to a player such as this. What might seem "not a big deal" to a few is an impassable wall to others.

There could be kids playing this game that are wondering why Rapids was taken away. Perhaps their parents can try and regain rapids for them, or they might be too busy to do so (or not even know how to play).

It isn't fair to require PVP for these people if all they want is their Rapids back.

At this point, it becomes the moral course of action.

Jaraal

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

There could be kids playing this game that are wondering why Rapids was taken away. Perhaps their parents can try and regain rapids for them, or they might be too busy to do so (or not even know how to play).

"Mommy, Daddy...... riding lessons are on sale in the crown store today! Buy me some pleeeeeaasssee!"

DarcyMardin

I saw the sale and had the same snarky feeling — wow, isn’t *this* convenient. Needless to say, I’m not buying. And one of my subs expires later today, so that’s one 6-month fee ZOS isn’t getting from me.

Meanwhile the only lvl 50 character on my new account (no eso+ on that one, and I have found various ways to cope with inventory) ventured into Cyro today after the double AP thing was supposedly fixed (it wasn’t) and once again experienced the pain of trying to catch up to the group to reach the besieged keep or attacked resource. The amount of AP she was able to get as she brought up the rear was pathetic, and I quickly bailed.

I have no incentive to take any other alts into PvP...or even, given the huge quality of life hit, into Tamriel at all.

Starlight_Whisper

How about a set that does something similar?

Jaraal

esotoon wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Hmmm, over a 7% drop in players on Steam in the past 30 days. Second biggest monthly drop in a year. Coincidence, or reaction to this negative QOL change?


https://steamcharts.com/app/306130

Looking back through the numbers, I don't think you can draw any conclusions from one month. The numbers for each month in the past have fluctuated by greater amounts in both direction.

But every day, that 30 day player drop number gets larger and larger.

It will be interesting to see where it bottoms out.

silvereyes

So, I actually tried some Cyrodiil PvP for a few hours tonight, for the first time in a while. First, some background on the character I used:

• It was a second account, so only CP 300-ish
• I was a total newb on the class and build, although all the skills for the build were max level.
• The horse was only half-trained (~ 30 speed, ~20 stam)
• The character was a stamina Warden, and used Vigor, Rally/Momentum and pots for heals.

Now, my impressions by the end.

• I was really hating my horse by the end of the night.
• Even with double AP, soloing and duoing resources is a very slow way to level Alliance rank. I still only have about 35k/60k of what I need for rank 5.
• The thought of engaging anyone in a fight that I might lose totally stressed me out because I realized it would be another 5 minutes of boring-as-hell slow-horse-simulator if I had to res back at the next keep over. So, I tended to play very safe and not take any risks.
• I got left behind on offense a fair amount.
• I would have much preferred to have Rapids than Vigor.

I'm hoping that a more active campaign will be a bit better so that I can finish up this toon quickly.

Anyways, just another perspective, since I saw a bunch of dismissive, "it's only like 30 minutes," lowball estimates of how long the grind for Rapids would last. That wasn't the case for me.

EvilAutoTech

I've taken 3 characters from assault/support level 3 to level 5 since the change dropped on Xbox.

The first one was a level 15 EP Templar. Mount training at 60/25/27. She was just under level 4 (less than 1K AP to level up). It took 2 more hours to get from level 4 to level 5 in Icereach.

The second character was a level 19 EP DK on a alt account (no CP) that I took into Gray Host. Mount training 60/60/60. She was just over level 3 in assault/support and it took about 3 hours to reach 5.

The third character was a level 29 DC pet sorc that I took into BGs. It took 12 matches for that one. All matches were deathmatch and none went the full time but it still took 3 days to get that many matches in after work.

It has not been fun trying to get Rapids back on any character that lost it. I'm not sure if I even want to try it with characters that don't have full speed mounts.

The funniest thing is that I have 2 level 4 Tyros that kept Rapids.

CipherNine

mareeelb16_ESO wrote: »

And wha'd'ya know?

Crown riding lessons are on offer!

Coincidence? Not!

exactly. ZOS doesnt even bother to try and hide it. They aren't even shady about it just put it right out in the open

silvereyes

CipherNine wrote: »

mareeelb16_ESO wrote: »

And wha'd'ya know?

Crown riding lessons are on offer!

Coincidence? Not!

exactly. ZOS doesnt even bother to try and hide it. They aren't even shady about it just put it right out in the open

Sleazy or shady doesn't really make a difference. I was trying to give them the benefit of the doubt before I saw that sale, but it's really hard now.

I guess the Rapids change still could have been genuine, and marketing is just trying to capitalize on it after the fact, but either way, it's a pretty cheap shot.

The sad thing is, they probably think they are being generous by offering money off.

Sanctum74

To make matters worse, mount speed and stamina were greatly reduced this patch too and they said they don’t know what caused it, oof!

Elvenheart

This was supposed to be an animated picture of an evil villain laughing, but I can’t figure out how to post pictures 🤪

Hurbster

Sanctum74 wrote: »

To make matters worse, mount speed and stamina were greatly reduced this patch too and they said they don’t know what caused it, oof!

Ouch.

silvereyes

Tonight's PvP experience was totally different, now that the IC event is done and double AP is mostly working, it was much easier to group up. I found a ball group and was at rank 5 within 20 minutes (I was already half-way there) due to a massive keep capture tick and then a defense tick.

I jumped on another toon - a squishy PvE healer wearing all PvE gear - and swapped out a few skills. I had that toon leveled to rank 5 within an hour and a half just riding around and healing the ball group.

In all, not too bad. It was still very annoying always lagging behind the group, but as long as I paid attention and started the trips between keeps right away, I usually ended up getting to the objectives on time.

SamanthaCarter

PvE players complains again and again since 5 years the game is broken because pve players complains on forum and devs listen them without understand that ZOS will loose money and loosed dozens of millions because they though to please PVE bad players is a good idea (that’s why I’m on this forum now because too much fake complains killed my sorc in 2015-2016 my DK in 2017 when leaping into keeps was so funny and many other characters and skills just because most of PVE players can’t learn to play).(edited for baiting) sorry for my English I just want to say the truth, I regret to not be on this forum earlier because I could stop the downgrade of eso (no bait just the truth sorry for my English)

Guyle

SamanthaCarter wrote: »

PvE players complains again and again since 5 years the game is broken because pve players complains on forum and devs listen them without understand that ZOS will loose money and loosed dozens of millions because they though to please PVE bad players is a good idea (that’s why I’m on this forum now because too much fake complains killed my sorc in 2015-2016 my DK in 2017 when leaping into keeps was so funny and many other characters and skills just because most of PVE players can’t learn to play).(edited for baiting) sorry for my English I just want to say the truth, I regret to not be on this forum earlier because I could stop the downgrade of eso (no bait just the truth sorry for my English)

This coming from the stealth crutch NB complaining about detect inviz pots and how they NEED to be removed from the game.

esotoon

SamanthaCarter wrote: »

PvE players complains again and again since 5 years the game is broken because pve players complains on forum and devs listen them without understand that ZOS will loose money and loosed dozens of millions because they though to please PVE bad players is a good idea (that’s why I’m on this forum now because too much fake complains killed my sorc in 2015-2016 my DK in 2017 when leaping into keeps was so funny and many other characters and skills just because most of PVE players can’t learn to play).(edited for baiting) sorry for my English I just want to say the truth, I regret to not be on this forum earlier because I could stop the downgrade of eso (no bait just the truth sorry for my English)

What does that have to do with them changing Rapids?

Why are you attacking players for ZOS' bad decisions, rather than attacking ZOS?

And welcome to the forum.

Mike0987

1-2 hours of Cyrodiil (In a good group) and get to level 5. Simple as that.

esotoon

Mike0987 wrote: »

1-2 hours of Cyrodiil (In a good group) and get to level 5. Simple as that.

Getting into a 'good group' is dependent on circumstance and not guaranteed.

Now multiply that time spent over multiple characters, and suddenly ZOS took away a couple days of your life for no reason, by also looking at the Vigor , swapping it with Rapids and saying "Simple as that" without given it a moments thought.

Mike0987

esotoon wrote: »

Mike0987 wrote: »

1-2 hours of Cyrodiil (In a good group) and get to level 5. Simple as that.

Getting into a 'good group' is dependent on circumstance and not guaranteed.

Now multiply that time spent over multiple characters, and suddenly ZOS took away a couple days of your life for no reason, by also looking at the Vigor , swapping it with Rapids and saying "Simple as that" without given it a moments thought.

Um, join a guild... I would agree it was an inconvenience to me as well on a few characters but I simply said in guild chat "X" and was golden.

Kosef

Still think the reason they did this so called "change" was to help the playerbase....[snip]

[snip]

If you are still sticking up for the choice of swapping vigor with rapids and not just having them both available at the same time by doing the logical thing and moving one of them to support....[snip]

[edited for baiting/conspiracy theories]

Everstorm

silvereyes wrote: »

Another idea for how ZOS could help the situation: make Major and Minor Expedition affect mounted speed and get rid of Major Gallop altogether. At least then there would be a way to get the same bonus as Rapids from other sources, like Cowards Gear.

Not as good as just giving back Rapids at Alliance Rank 2 or 3, but it could at least solve the problem for crafting alts and farmers. It would also at least provide a choice to increase mount speed for people who just like to move through the world fast, although it would severely gimp their builds.

I was thinking it would be elegant if one would automatically get major gallop when you're on a cobbled/hardened road and minor gallop when on a dirt road/track.
But no idea if that's feasible to code.

esotoon

Mike0987 wrote: »

Um, join a guild... I would agree it was an inconvenience to me as well on a few characters but I simply said in guild chat "X" and was golden.

Again, it is circumstantial. You can do what you did, log in, press 'x' in chat, get a group, have enough players on your faction and push and take multiple Keeps, and be done in 1-2 hours. Or you can log on, not be able to get into a group at all. Or even if you are in a group or join a guild, be on at a time when the campaign is at stalemate, or your faction is in retreat, with not much AP being earned. So it can take much longer.

But lets forget the reality of AP gain not being consistent in Cyrodiil, and say that it definitely only takes 1-2 hours as your experienced, and is therefore "simple". Well, doesn't that also mean that it was "simple" to get Vigor? Or rather "simpler", given Rapids would allow you to travel faster in Cyrodiil making getting AP easier. So why change it?