the1andonlyskwex wrote: »montiferus wrote: »Milli_Rabbit wrote: »I'll be honest, I rarely used Ritual of Retribution for the heal. I used it for the purge and the passive damage for using my magicka pool that would otherwise be at 100% all of the time. As a Stamplar, like every other Stam class, I use Vigor for heals and Rune Focus for damage reduction in both solo and group play. I do hope they change ritual to physical damage though and make it stronger to counter losing the heal. I also hope they make it something we can aim instead of drop it where we stand. Easier to damage that way.
No end game player consistently slots Vigor (VMA yes but very little 4 man content and certainly not in a trial). There is no way they are ever going to buff the damage to the point when you aren't going to miss the heal. On an 81k parse Ritual accounts for 3.2% of my damage. I don't need the damage boost. Please revert.
This is fairly typical of ZOS. They make changes to an ability literally nobody asked to alter.
People have been asking for buffs to Ash Cloud, Path of Darkness, and Lightning Splash using RoR as their point of comparison for a long time. It's a lot easier to nerf one morph than to buff 6.
Also, if RoR is such an insignificant part of your damage and you only use it for the heal, maybe you should just use extended ritual or vigor instead.
the1andonlyskwex wrote: »
People have been asking for buffs to Ash Cloud, Path of Darkness, and Lightning Splash using RoR as their point of comparison for a long time. It's a lot easier to nerf one morph than to buff 6.
Also, if RoR is such an insignificant part of your damage and you only use it for the heal, maybe you should just use extended ritual or vigor instead.
montiferus wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »
People have been asking for buffs to Ash Cloud, Path of Darkness, and Lightning Splash using RoR as their point of comparison for a long time. It's a lot easier to nerf one morph than to buff 6.
Also, if RoR is such an insignificant part of your damage and you only use it for the heal, maybe you should just use extended ritual or vigor instead.
Sigh...I'll give this one last shot then I am done.
I do NOT only use it for the heal. It serves a combination of purposes (damage, heal, non-stam based ability to ease my rotation). What I and I believe others are saying is that the ability should be left as is. A damage buff is not necessary, warranted or even requested. It was perfect in its original form and we would like it kept as such.
VoidCommander wrote: »People sure love to forget that Ritual costs like 4k magicka. Yes it is a powerful spell with lots of effects, but it is expensive as hell. The only way I was ever able to afford casting it to begin with was by using Blood for Blood instead of sweeps. Now that won't be an option doubly because of anti-healing from BfB as well as no more healing from RoR. An no, a dps will not run a mediocre heal over time skill in their rotation just to use BfB.
UnassumingNoob wrote: »I don’t see why there is so much resistance to keeping the heal on retribution. Take a look at who actually uses it.
PVP Tank - extended ritual
PVE Tank - Extended ritual if at all.
PVP DPS Magplar- Extended ritual (for the most part)
PVE DPS Magplar - Neither morph for parsing. Retribution in some situations.
PVP DPS Stamplar - Extended Ritual
PVE DPS Stamplar - Retribution.
Healers - predominately Extended except for off DPS/off heals hybrids for 4 man dungeons.
Really the only specs that this hurts is PVE Stamplar and off healing DPS healers. Are either of these good subjects for nerfs? No.
kingsforged wrote: »Hmmm... what about adding minor lifesteal?
Makes sense with the NAME of the ability, fits the damage theme, isn't a DIRECT healing ability...
I'd at least like to see some form of debuff/buff on it... making it into an AoE damage skill just isn't remotely needed or wanted.
And as others have stated... stamina templar heals/survivability SUCKS in PVP. No decent shields, no good healing except vigor...
As someone else pointed out in another thread, why use Retribution over Wall of Elements which can cause status effects and proc poisons/glyphs easily. Why use Retribution over Blazing Spear which can proc burning light? Even caltrops can causes Major fracture.
the1andonlyskwex wrote: »As someone else pointed out in another thread, why use Retribution over Wall of Elements which can cause status effects and proc poisons/glyphs easily. Why use Retribution over Blazing Spear which can proc burning light? Even caltrops can causes Major fracture.
Well, the area of effect is huge, and it has a cleanse, and it has a synergy.
You could ask the same question about every class's AoE DoT, and in most cases you would get even less satisfying answers than you do for RoR.
the1andonlyskwex wrote: »As someone else pointed out in another thread, why use Retribution over Wall of Elements which can cause status effects and proc poisons/glyphs easily. Why use Retribution over Blazing Spear which can proc burning light? Even caltrops can causes Major fracture.
Well, the area of effect is huge, and it has a cleanse, and it has a synergy.
You could ask the same question about every class's AoE DoT, and in most cases you would get even less satisfying answers than you do for RoR.
Not to be rude. I do understand others caring about other class skills. But I find it unhelpful to the Templars situation and the topic of Retribution, which is what this thread is about. You can easily make another thread for other classes and discuss that there. And I’d be fully supportive of it.
In terms of your observation above about radius and cleanse, the question would be does this make Retribution attractive over other aoe dps skills available to the Templar, given its cost and dmg.
UnassumingNoob wrote: »I don’t see why there is so much resistance to keeping the heal on retribution. Take a look at who actually uses it.
PVP DPS Stamplar - Extended Ritual
PVE DPS Stamplar - Retribution.
For the love of God, please revert this change to RoR. Us templars have been constantly getting nerfs with no buffs whatsoever to make up for them; it's getting ridiculous at this point.
The change is good, an ability should never do dmg and heal at the same time, that always a bad thing balance wise.
This ability is overloaded since so long it doesn't surprise me it get finally nerf.
That not like this ability was doing
- purge
- synergy for everyone like orb
- heal
- damage
- minor mending, thx to passive
- extremely high radius
What happen now ?
Morph 1 : You still get everything but healing
Morph 2 : You still get everything but dmg
You don't seem to really know what you're talking about. There are lots of abilities in the game that deal damage and heal. Ritual of ret wasnt overpowered. It only lasted 12 seconds and had a high cost.
Listing all the templar skill tree passives that interacted with ritual is also a silly argument, because EVERY class has skill tree passives that interact with their abilities...
I think he knows that he's talking about and you're intentionally avoiding the point with your statement. There are indeed plenty of damage + heal skills in the game. Almost all of those (like the large list above) are exclusively healing the caster. You're bypassing the fact that the heal of Ritual, like the damage, is an aoe in a large radius. It doesn't just heal the caster, it heals everyone. You would do 20-30k hps in a stacked group (in PvE) for 12 secs, while also doing damage, providing a synergy and purging.
There aren't many (any in fact) skills like that any more. The ones that were like that (Refreshing Path, Swallow Soul etc) got nerfed to not be doing hot aoe heals along with their damage.
EtTuBrutus wrote: »It's itpThe change is good, an ability should never do dmg and heal at the same time, that always a bad thing balance wise.
This ability is overloaded since so long it doesn't surprise me it get finally nerf.
That not like this ability was doing
- purge
- synergy for everyone like orb
- heal
- damage
- minor mending, thx to passive
- extremely high radius
What happen now ?
Morph 1 : You still get everything but healing
Morph 2 : You still get everything but dmg
You don't seem to really know what you're talking about. There are lots of abilities in the game that deal damage and heal. Ritual of ret wasnt overpowered. It only lasted 12 seconds and had a high cost.
Listing all the templar skill tree passives that interacted with ritual is also a silly argument, because EVERY class has skill tree passives that interact with their abilities...
I think he knows that he's talking about and you're intentionally avoiding the point with your statement. There are indeed plenty of damage + heal skills in the game. Almost all of those (like the large list above) are exclusively healing the caster. You're bypassing the fact that the heal of Ritual, like the damage, is an aoe in a large radius. It doesn't just heal the caster, it heals everyone. You would do 20-30k hps in a stacked group (in PvE) for 12 secs, while also doing damage, providing a synergy and purging.
There aren't many (any in fact) skills like that any more. The ones that were like that (Refreshing Path, Swallow Soul etc) got nerfed to not be doing hot aoe heals along with their damage.
The purge is tied to the synergy. It's stupid to include that on its power table as including synergies makes anything with a synergy look op.
Swallow soul is a spammable and had a much higher hps per target. Its nothing line ritual of ret.
Path was gutted.
The change is fine if they reduce the cost. This is a tough pill to swallow for stampys.
EtTuBrutus wrote: »It's itpThe change is good, an ability should never do dmg and heal at the same time, that always a bad thing balance wise.
This ability is overloaded since so long it doesn't surprise me it get finally nerf.
That not like this ability was doing
- purge
- synergy for everyone like orb
- heal
- damage
- minor mending, thx to passive
- extremely high radius
What happen now ?
Morph 1 : You still get everything but healing
Morph 2 : You still get everything but dmg
You don't seem to really know what you're talking about. There are lots of abilities in the game that deal damage and heal. Ritual of ret wasnt overpowered. It only lasted 12 seconds and had a high cost.
Listing all the templar skill tree passives that interacted with ritual is also a silly argument, because EVERY class has skill tree passives that interact with their abilities...
I think he knows that he's talking about and you're intentionally avoiding the point with your statement. There are indeed plenty of damage + heal skills in the game. Almost all of those (like the large list above) are exclusively healing the caster. You're bypassing the fact that the heal of Ritual, like the damage, is an aoe in a large radius. It doesn't just heal the caster, it heals everyone. You would do 20-30k hps in a stacked group (in PvE) for 12 secs, while also doing damage, providing a synergy and purging.
There aren't many (any in fact) skills like that any more. The ones that were like that (Refreshing Path, Swallow Soul etc) got nerfed to not be doing hot aoe heals along with their damage.
The purge is tied to the synergy. It's stupid to include that on its power table as including synergies makes anything with a synergy look op.
Swallow soul is a spammable and had a much higher hps per target. Its nothing line ritual of ret.
Path was gutted.
The change is fine if they reduce the cost. This is a tough pill to swallow for stampys.
The change is good, an ability should never do dmg and heal at the same time, that always a bad thing balance wise.
This ability is overloaded since so long it doesn't surprise me it get finally nerf.
That not like this ability was doing
- purge
- synergy for everyone like orb
- heal
- damage
- minor mending, thx to passive
- extremely high radius
The change is good, an ability should never do dmg and heal at the same time, that always a bad thing balance wise.
This ability is overloaded since so long it doesn't surprise me it get finally nerf.
That not like this ability was doing
- purge
- synergy for everyone like orb
- heal
- damage
- minor mending, thx to passive
- extremely high radius
- 2 effects purge is laughable for this cost
- synergy is not for everyone, it's just once for one player per initial cast just like Conduit from Liquid Lightning
- heal is just "acceptable" mainly useful for pve only
- damage even if scaled it's magic damage, no use from pen or sets or such
- minor mending is fine but what use for a dps, since the morph is dps oriented
- radius is from the "large" category of aoes, wouldn't call it "extremely high"
all in all a good rounded ability, not too strong not too weak. No need for nerf
The change is good, an ability should never do dmg and heal at the same time, that always a bad thing balance wise.
This ability is overloaded since so long it doesn't surprise me it get finally nerf.
That not like this ability was doing
- purge
- synergy for everyone like orb
- heal
- damage
- minor mending, thx to passive
- extremely high radius
- 2 effects purge is laughable for this cost
- synergy is not for everyone, it's just once for one player per initial cast just like Conduit from Liquid Lightning
- heal is just "acceptable" mainly useful for pve only
- damage even if scaled it's magic damage, no use from pen or sets or such
- minor mending is fine but what use for a dps, since the morph is dps oriented
- radius is from the "large" category of aoes, wouldn't call it "extremely high"
all in all a good rounded ability, not too strong not too weak. No need for nerf