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Ritual of Retribution

  • Obsidian3
    Obsidian3
    ✭✭✭
    Well, we all get Vigor at Assault lvl 1!! That'll fix it! /s
  • Kalik_Gold
    Kalik_Gold
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Keep the heal.
    Ras Kalik | Redguard - Templar | The Vestige, Ahkahtuz | Champion 995+ | PS4/NA | ESO+ Cancelled | DC PVP
    PvP:
    Aurik Siet'ka | Redguard - Necromancer
    Cee Fôr | Redguard, Vampire - Nightblade
    Cacique the Sage of Ius | Redguard - Warden
    Jux Blackheart | Redguard, Lycan - Nightblade
    Goliath of Hammerfell | Redguard - Dragonknight
    Movárth Piquine | Nord - Necromancer <Tank/Support>
    Kaotik Von Dae'mon | Breton - Sorcerer <Healer/Support>
    _____________________________________________________________________________________
    PvE:
    Herzog Zwei the Genesis | Breton - Templar <Healer>
    Cinan Tharn | Imperial, Vampire - Dragonknight <Tank>
    Tyrus Septim | Imperial - Sorcerer <Lightning/Shock Damage>
    Bates Vesuius of Dawnstar | Imperial - Dragonknight <Fire Damage>
    _____________________________________________________________________________________
    PS4/EU:
    Escaped Prisoner | Redguard - Warden (lvl 10)
    Ras Kalik the Vestige, a renown Redguard Paladin and the wielder of Chrysamere; He has been blessed to save Tamriel from Molag Bal’s destructive Planemeld while reuniting the Five Companions. His further accomplishments after defeating Molag Bal, has been to stop the destruction of Morrowind, the Clockwork City, return order to the isle of Summerset and create a new king in Wrothgar and a queen in Elsywer. These events have made him a living legend and continue to lead him into new adventures throughout Tamriel, as well as into the hearts of many ladies including the Elf Queen, Aryenn. (not only Sai Sahan has a secret snowflake!) Over many years of adventurous travels, Ras Kalik had become a loner, until he re-visited his homeland of Alik'r.

    Alik'r and it's cities were overrun by the undead Ra-Netu and therefore he made an allegiance with Alik'r's own Ash'abah tribe. These Ash'abah with his help, cleansed the city of Sentinel in Alik'r desert and it's surrounding areas of the undead brought to life by the Withered Hand. After rescuing Sentinel from undead, King Fahara’jad’s personal bodyguard the Goliath of Hammerfell, who was given this name by Imperials in the region; asked to assist the tribe after learning of the defeat of the Withered Hand to the Ash'abah. Kalik promised Goliath he would task him with fighting enemies on the battlefield if he so desired. Goliath being from Hammerfell, and a Redguard wields a massive sword in respect to the Ansei. He also carries a Volendrung replica, which was awarded to Goliath because of his carnage during the Three banners war; he once was able to wield the true Volendrung after Sheo placed it in the midst of the battlefield. Not many soldiers are able to wield double 2-handed weapons, but Goliath loves to get up and personal in a fight.

    Jux Blackheart a master thief that was frequenting the Sisters of the Sands inn for pilfering during this time. Jux was known to infiltrate any bank vault he came across and even delved into Ayelid ruins without detection. Kalik can vividly recall the night he met the famed thief. Jux found himself rummaging thru a slightly inebriated Kalik’s pocket for too long, on a full-mooned night and because of this and the glimmer of his golden armor in the moonlight and his greed. He lost two fingertips as a lesson! But in return, he gained a new friend, as it was his first time since a child being caught...

    Kaotik Von’Daemon is an outcast, and a half-caste between a Breton mother and a Redguard father. Kaotik become a pariah due to his conjuration of Daedra pets. He was taught healing magic during his childhood years by his Breton mother. His father due to Redguard customs exiled him from the desert, sending him by wagon to be a soldier in the war in Cyrodiil. He happened to meet Kalik while traveling from Alik'r, during this long caravan ride the caravan he was in was ambushed in Bangkorai by a group of bandits. Kalik by chance was also traveling thru this area on his Auridon Warhorse (which was bestowed to him by his friend, Darien Gautier). During this ambush, Kalik was able to rescue five hostages from the bandits. Kaotik was the first rescued, and Ras Kalik also recruited him to be in the Ash'abah tribe. These core Ash'abah tribesmen may never be seen together in travel as they partake in their own adventures but they always know what each other is doing; as they frequent a hideout in northern Bankorai. Their hideout an old Orc castle ruin, is kept watch by Nuzhimeh and she passes messages written between them, and frequently they also enjoy her company and her bed.

    The other men rescued were a Dunmer banker, a Breton monk and two Imperial soldiers. One of the Imperials claimed to be related to Abnur Tharn the Battlemage of the Imperial Elder Council (Ras Kalik's mentor in the Five Companions). Cinan Tharn is really Abnur's drunkard treasure hunting illegitimate son, that was caught smuggling artifacts out of the Ayleid ruins in Cyrodiil and the elder of the two Imperials was Tyrus Septim a retired battle-mage soldier and guard to the Tharn family. As much as Abnur Tharn hated his half-sister Euraxia, he dislikes his bas†ard son more. Tyrus now a ruffian and privateer had been paid by Abnur Tharn to watch over Cinan as much as possible. Cinan Tharn is also a master of disguise, and uses his disguises while he robs various delves and dungeons for relics to sell on the black market.

    The Dunmer captive shackled to the Imperials looked familiar to Kalik from his time in Morrowind.... and he recognized him as Tythis Andromo a House Telvanni slave-owner and banker from Vvardenfell. During a rough interrogation to Tythis, Ras Kalik learnt why the bandits accosted him. The racist Dunmer was providing slaves as soldiers for the Three Banner War. The bandits were trying to negotiate a lucrative ransom for Andromo and the Imperials.... Kalik did not need any of this gold and he could never set Tythis free as he did with the two Imperial soldiers. His past involvement with slavery and war crimes, made Kalik's blood boil. He chose not to execute Tythis, as he figured the worse punishment for this former rich and opulent slave owner, is to now be a manservant for Ras Kalik and the tribe.

    Herzog Zwei the Genesis a Breton and also a prominent monk of the Cult of the Ancestor Moth, was seeking to purchase an artifact from Cinan Tharn, before their capture. This artifact being the Ayelid artifact; the sword Sinweaver. After their rescue and the exchange of gold to Cinan for the sword he decided to slip away before Ras Kalik could question who he was, and why the Ancestor Moth cult worshippers wanted that sword. Herzog was headed to Nagastani — An Ayleid ruin in eastern Cyrodiil. He had read in scrolls that the Sword would give him magical powers, if he performed an Ayleid ritual at an old shrine hidden there. Equipped with the artifact sword, he was off to start his own adventure. Ras Kalik did indeed notice the sword however, and instead sent a letter to Jux Blackheart (whom also was interested in Ayleid treasures), to attempt to find Herzog and acquire the sword. (*Azani Blackheart in Elder Scroll's Oblivion is Jux's descendant some 747 years later)

    And so the Redguard, Imperial and Breton men have parted ways for now... While Ras Kalik is off to Elsweyr to encounter the latest threat to Tamriel, with Abnur Tharn and Sai Sahan - - DRAGONS!! Little does Kalik know a few people are awaiting him in Senchal besides Sai. A necromancer survived his attack on the Withered Hand, while in Alik'r. The one known as Auriek Siet'ka is also following him to the land of the Khajiits and Cacique the Sage of Ius a Shaman mystic who has become attuned spiritually with Tu'whacca (a Redguard God) and Ius (the Animal God), after being burned severely by the escaped dragons, is awaiting his arrival also.

    The journey to Senchal will also put him on a path to meet a strange man which was infected with an untreated Peyrite disease and also was the exiled from the Order of the New Moon cult, due to his sickness. He originally joined the cult to worship Laatvulon, the green dragon, mistakenly thinking it was the Daedric prince Peyrite. This confused and suffering cultist is only known as "the member C-4", as he gave up his born name when joining the cult. Cee Fôr is on a path to spread the disease as he was infected in Orccrest while recruiting members there. Can Ras Kalik and the shaman Cacique cure this poor soul, only time will tell.

    Movárth Piquine - a former vampire hunter within the Fighter's Guild (and a necromancer) was in Skyrim working with the Morthaal Guard. On a patrol mission he was caught in the Frewien's ice curse outside of Morthaal with the frozen undead. Movárth's necromancer talents kept him from becoming an undead minion to the curse. He was able to use ice-magic to encase himself safely until he was freed with Freiwen, when the Vestige Ras Kalik broke the curse.

    Bates Vesuius of Dawnstar - grandfather of Silus Vesuius.

  • Koubo
    Koubo
    ✭✭✭
    montiferus wrote: »
    I'll be honest, I rarely used Ritual of Retribution for the heal. I used it for the purge and the passive damage for using my magicka pool that would otherwise be at 100% all of the time. As a Stamplar, like every other Stam class, I use Vigor for heals and Rune Focus for damage reduction in both solo and group play. I do hope they change ritual to physical damage though and make it stronger to counter losing the heal. I also hope they make it something we can aim instead of drop it where we stand. Easier to damage that way.

    No end game player consistently slots Vigor (VMA yes but very little 4 man content and certainly not in a trial). There is no way they are ever going to buff the damage to the point when you aren't going to miss the heal. On an 81k parse Ritual accounts for 3.2% of my damage. I don't need the damage boost. Please revert.

    6fcgx0onrt4z.jpg

    This is fairly typical of ZOS. They make changes to an ability literally nobody asked to alter.

    People have been asking for buffs to Ash Cloud, Path of Darkness, and Lightning Splash using RoR as their point of comparison for a long time. It's a lot easier to nerf one morph than to buff 6.

    Also, if RoR is such an insignificant part of your damage and you only use it for the heal, maybe you should just use extended ritual or vigor instead.

    RoR is not only about small ST dps, it's a huge area of effect which lead to additive DPS in AoE (Stamplar isn't the best for AoE (saying that using my personal experience))
    And it use an unused pool (Magicka) I probably wont use it in PvE just for the healing (or in specific case, which wont happen a lot I suppose) So it's just a small source of damage but because ZOS dosent rework the class, we have nothing else to put there...
  • the1andonlyskwex
    the1andonlyskwex
    ✭✭✭✭
    montiferus wrote: »

    People have been asking for buffs to Ash Cloud, Path of Darkness, and Lightning Splash using RoR as their point of comparison for a long time. It's a lot easier to nerf one morph than to buff 6.

    Also, if RoR is such an insignificant part of your damage and you only use it for the heal, maybe you should just use extended ritual or vigor instead.

    Sigh...I'll give this one last shot then I am done.

    I do NOT only use it for the heal. It serves a combination of purposes (damage, heal, non-stam based ability to ease my rotation). What I and I believe others are saying is that the ability should be left as is. A damage buff is not necessary, warranted or even requested. It was perfect in its original form and we would like it kept as such.

    And what I'm saying is that it's about 160% as powerful as comparable skills that other classes have on live, which is why it's long overdue for a nerf.
  • VoidCommander
    VoidCommander
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    People sure love to forget that Ritual costs like 4k magicka. Yes it is a powerful spell with lots of effects, but it is expensive as hell. The only way I was ever able to afford casting it to begin with was by using Blood for Blood instead of sweeps. Now that won't be an option doubly because of anti-healing from BfB as well as no more healing from RoR. An no, a dps will not run a mediocre heal over time skill in their rotation just to use BfB.
  • the1andonlyskwex
    the1andonlyskwex
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    People sure love to forget that Ritual costs like 4k magicka. Yes it is a powerful spell with lots of effects, but it is expensive as hell. The only way I was ever able to afford casting it to begin with was by using Blood for Blood instead of sweeps. Now that won't be an option doubly because of anti-healing from BfB as well as no more healing from RoR. An no, a dps will not run a mediocre heal over time skill in their rotation just to use BfB.

    You should look at what Ash Cloud costs.
  • Koubo
    Koubo
    ✭✭✭
    Ok so we have the 6.1.2 and NO change for Templar again ! it's so much desapointement ... ZOS !
  • Bluestat
    Bluestat
    ✭✭
    For the love of God, please revert this change to RoR. Us templars have been constantly getting nerfs with no buffs whatsoever to make up for them; it's getting ridiculous at this point.

  • stefj68
    stefj68
    ✭✭
    Unacceptable, no fix for RoR... do they listen to us?

    i understand they wanted to reduce heal that dps magplar receives with ritual of retribution + puncturing sweeps... but for stamina base tempalr we dont receive heals from biting jabs equivalents... that heal overtime is our main survability till some mobs die then we can use our repentance skills... please reconsider, changes to ritual of retribution... or maybe consider removing heals from puncturing sweeps morph and keep ritual like it was..

    thanks
  • kingsforged
    kingsforged
    ✭✭✭
    Hmmm... what about adding minor lifesteal?

    Makes sense with the NAME of the ability, fits the damage theme, isn't a DIRECT healing ability...

    I'd at least like to see some form of debuff/buff on it... making it into an AoE damage skill just isn't remotely needed or wanted.

    And as others have stated... stamina templar heals/survivability SUCKS in PVP. No decent shields, no good healing except vigor...
  • UnassumingNoob
    I don’t see why there is so much resistance to keeping the heal on retribution. Take a look at who actually uses it.

    PVP Tank - extended ritual
    PVE Tank - Extended ritual if at all.
    PVP DPS Magplar- Extended ritual (for the most part)
    PVE DPS Magplar - Neither morph for parsing. Retribution in some situations.
    PVP DPS Stamplar - Extended Ritual
    PVE DPS Stamplar - Retribution.
    Healers - predominately Extended except for off DPS/off heals hybrids for 4 man dungeons.

    Really the only specs that this hurts is PVE Stamplar and off healing DPS healers. Are either of these good subjects for nerfs? No.
  • Vajrak
    Vajrak
    ✭✭✭
    I don’t see why there is so much resistance to keeping the heal on retribution. Take a look at who actually uses it.

    PVP Tank - extended ritual
    PVE Tank - Extended ritual if at all.
    PVP DPS Magplar- Extended ritual (for the most part)
    PVE DPS Magplar - Neither morph for parsing. Retribution in some situations.
    PVP DPS Stamplar - Extended Ritual
    PVE DPS Stamplar - Retribution.
    Healers - predominately Extended except for off DPS/off heals hybrids for 4 man dungeons.

    Really the only specs that this hurts is PVE Stamplar and off healing DPS healers. Are either of these good subjects for nerfs? No.

    PVE Magplar can use it, and it will (in current form) cover 4-5k dps pretty easily.
    PVE Stamplar can use it for an extra 2-3k pretty easily as well.
    PVE Tankplar can use it for initial aggro on the area of the circle, which extended doesn't do.
  • the1andonlyskwex
    the1andonlyskwex
    ✭✭✭✭
    Hmmm... what about adding minor lifesteal?

    Makes sense with the NAME of the ability, fits the damage theme, isn't a DIRECT healing ability...

    I'd at least like to see some form of debuff/buff on it... making it into an AoE damage skill just isn't remotely needed or wanted.

    And as others have stated... stamina templar heals/survivability SUCKS in PVP. No decent shields, no good healing except vigor...

    The only way that would be balanced compared to what other classes have is if it replaced the cleanse. Cleanse is the debuff/buff on it now.
  • maxjapank
    maxjapank
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    As someone else pointed out in another thread, why use Retribution over Wall of Elements which can cause status effects and proc poisons/glyphs easily. Why use Retribution over Blazing Spear which can proc burning light? Even caltrops can causes Major fracture.
  • the1andonlyskwex
    the1andonlyskwex
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    maxjapank wrote: »
    As someone else pointed out in another thread, why use Retribution over Wall of Elements which can cause status effects and proc poisons/glyphs easily. Why use Retribution over Blazing Spear which can proc burning light? Even caltrops can causes Major fracture.

    Well, the area of effect is huge, and it has a cleanse, and it has a synergy.

    You could ask the same question about every class's AoE DoT, and in most cases you would get even less satisfying answers than you do for RoR.
  • maxjapank
    maxjapank
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    maxjapank wrote: »
    As someone else pointed out in another thread, why use Retribution over Wall of Elements which can cause status effects and proc poisons/glyphs easily. Why use Retribution over Blazing Spear which can proc burning light? Even caltrops can causes Major fracture.

    Well, the area of effect is huge, and it has a cleanse, and it has a synergy.

    You could ask the same question about every class's AoE DoT, and in most cases you would get even less satisfying answers than you do for RoR.

    Not to be rude. I do understand others caring about other class skills. But I find it unhelpful to the Templars situation and the topic of Retribution, which is what this thread is about. You can easily make another thread for other classes and discuss that there. And I’d be fully supportive of it.

    In terms of your observation above about radius and cleanse, the question would be does this make Retribution attractive over other aoe dps skills available to the Templar, given its cost and dmg.
  • the1andonlyskwex
    the1andonlyskwex
    ✭✭✭✭
    maxjapank wrote: »
    maxjapank wrote: »
    As someone else pointed out in another thread, why use Retribution over Wall of Elements which can cause status effects and proc poisons/glyphs easily. Why use Retribution over Blazing Spear which can proc burning light? Even caltrops can causes Major fracture.

    Well, the area of effect is huge, and it has a cleanse, and it has a synergy.

    You could ask the same question about every class's AoE DoT, and in most cases you would get even less satisfying answers than you do for RoR.

    Not to be rude. I do understand others caring about other class skills. But I find it unhelpful to the Templars situation and the topic of Retribution, which is what this thread is about. You can easily make another thread for other classes and discuss that there. And I’d be fully supportive of it.

    In terms of your observation above about radius and cleanse, the question would be does this make Retribution attractive over other aoe dps skills available to the Templar, given its cost and dmg.

    You totally missed my point. I'm not asking for buffs to other classes' abilities. I'm trying to explain why RoR deserved the nerf that it got. Generally speaking, there are tons of class abilities that aren't significantly stronger than their non-class alternatives. I'm not really convinced that's the case yet for RoR (for the reasons I mentioned previously), but even if it is, that's not exactly unusual.

    Personally, I think class abilities should be more powerful than their non-class counterparts, but that's a discussion for a different time. As far as this thread is concerned, this nerf is totally consistent with ZOS's overall balancing approach.
  • stefj68
    stefj68
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    remove the dot parts, and put a self heal over time for the same amount and case close
  • stefj68
    stefj68
    ✭✭
    I don’t see why there is so much resistance to keeping the heal on retribution. Take a look at who actually uses it.

    PVP DPS Stamplar - Extended Ritual
    PVE DPS Stamplar - Retribution.

    you listed 2 skills for the stamplar extended ritual and retribution... those are the same skills one is the morph of the other one...

    resolving vigor on pts = heal 5940 health over 4 seconds

    cleansing ritual on pts = heal you and nearby for 888 every 2 seconds for 12 seconds = 6x888 = 5504 heal over 12seconds

    cleansing ritual on live = heal you and nearby for 2189 heal evevry 2 seconds for 12 seconds = 6x 2178 = 13134 over 12 seconds

    other skills i use on live is repentance (restoring aura morph) that heals for 3000 health for every corpse nearby, but for that i have to have killed something previously...

    even if u use resolving vigor + cleansing ritual i will still self heal less then i was before, and i am currently having a hardtime on live server to stay alive...

    we don't need another dots, we do need the healing overtime from this skills to stay alive...

    take time to go play a stamplar on live and pts, and u will understand what we are saying
  • RamiereZ
    RamiereZ
    Soul Shriven
    First of all, I think this ability should always have a heal even if it's a small amount - it's a large radiant circle in the Restoring Light skill line after all.

    To rework it's morphs, I have some ideas, let me know what you think about it.

    Ritual of Retribution:
    This should be the dps morph.

    Increase the damage per tick by 5% and decrease the heal every tick by 10%, up to 35% / 70%, so it can still provide small healing while dealing damage.

    This also matches the idea of "sacrificing healing for damage".

    Also decrease the amount of harmful effects removed by the synergy to 4, down from "all", since the normal ability also removes 2 effects with this morph, while the extended Ritual morph removes 5.
    Set the heal to a flat 10%-15% of the synergy users maximum life or something, this is less than on live server but at least a small amount - it's the dps morph after all.


    Extendes Ritual:
    This should be the healing morph.

    Increase it's range ove time to a maximum of about 20m, by an increase of 0.5m every 3 seconds
    12m at 0s
    12.5m at 3s
    13m at 6s
    13.5m at 9s
    14m at 12s
    14.5m at 15s
    15m at 18s
    15.5m at 21s
    16m at 24s
    When the ritual expires or you cast a new one it explodes and heals everybody inside for 10% of the total amount healed, split between all players inside the circle.
    Assuming a value of 2.5k per tick and 10 players inside the cirle:

    2.5k * 12 ticks in 24 seconds * 10 players = 300k healing done

    On expiration:
    300k * 10% = 30k healing => split between 10 players = 3000 healing per player if they stay in the circle.
    However, players can move out in the last second so the remaining player, assuming it's the Tank, gets a burst of 30k healing - this could be done on purpose by trial groups or smth.

    Leave the synergy as it is.
    Edited by RamiereZ on July 29, 2020 2:05PM
  • kinukrush
    kinukrush
    Soul Shriven
    i hope they keep the heal. sometimes it seems like this game hates templars. Is the damage increase really not worth losing the heal? im on console so i cant see for myself how things are shaking out.
  • Athan1
    Athan1
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    If the skill needs to be balanced then just reduce the damage component... easy solution. Radiant Aura lost its aggro, now this... tools for tanks to draw aggro are restricted.
    Altmer Templar (PC-EU-AD)
    "Stendarr's Mercy be upon you, for the Vigil has none to spare." - Vigilants of Stendarr
    "Not all of us are fans of being united with our feral little cousins and furry friends." - Watch Captain Astanya
  • EtTuBrutus
    EtTuBrutus
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's itp
    Maulkin wrote: »
    Stx wrote: »
    Aznarb wrote: »
    The change is good, an ability should never do dmg and heal at the same time, that always a bad thing balance wise.
    This ability is overloaded since so long it doesn't surprise me it get finally nerf.

    That not like this ability was doing
    - purge
    - synergy for everyone like orb
    - heal
    - damage
    - minor mending, thx to passive
    - extremely high radius

    What happen now ?
    Morph 1 : You still get everything but healing
    Morph 2 : You still get everything but dmg

    You don't seem to really know what you're talking about. There are lots of abilities in the game that deal damage and heal. Ritual of ret wasnt overpowered. It only lasted 12 seconds and had a high cost.

    Listing all the templar skill tree passives that interacted with ritual is also a silly argument, because EVERY class has skill tree passives that interact with their abilities...

    I think he knows that he's talking about and you're intentionally avoiding the point with your statement. There are indeed plenty of damage + heal skills in the game. Almost all of those (like the large list above) are exclusively healing the caster. You're bypassing the fact that the heal of Ritual, like the damage, is an aoe in a large radius. It doesn't just heal the caster, it heals everyone. You would do 20-30k hps in a stacked group (in PvE) for 12 secs, while also doing damage, providing a synergy and purging.

    There aren't many (any in fact) skills like that any more. The ones that were like that (Refreshing Path, Swallow Soul etc) got nerfed to not be doing hot aoe heals along with their damage.

    The purge is tied to the synergy. It's stupid to include that on its power table as including synergies makes anything with a synergy look op.

    Swallow soul is a spammable and had a much higher hps per target. Its nothing line ritual of ret.

    Path was gutted.

    The change is fine if they reduce the cost. This is a tough pill to swallow for stampys.
  • Koubo
    Koubo
    ✭✭✭
    EtTuBrutus wrote: »
    It's itp
    Maulkin wrote: »
    Stx wrote: »
    Aznarb wrote: »
    The change is good, an ability should never do dmg and heal at the same time, that always a bad thing balance wise.
    This ability is overloaded since so long it doesn't surprise me it get finally nerf.

    That not like this ability was doing
    - purge
    - synergy for everyone like orb
    - heal
    - damage
    - minor mending, thx to passive
    - extremely high radius

    What happen now ?
    Morph 1 : You still get everything but healing
    Morph 2 : You still get everything but dmg

    You don't seem to really know what you're talking about. There are lots of abilities in the game that deal damage and heal. Ritual of ret wasnt overpowered. It only lasted 12 seconds and had a high cost.

    Listing all the templar skill tree passives that interacted with ritual is also a silly argument, because EVERY class has skill tree passives that interact with their abilities...

    I think he knows that he's talking about and you're intentionally avoiding the point with your statement. There are indeed plenty of damage + heal skills in the game. Almost all of those (like the large list above) are exclusively healing the caster. You're bypassing the fact that the heal of Ritual, like the damage, is an aoe in a large radius. It doesn't just heal the caster, it heals everyone. You would do 20-30k hps in a stacked group (in PvE) for 12 secs, while also doing damage, providing a synergy and purging.

    There aren't many (any in fact) skills like that any more. The ones that were like that (Refreshing Path, Swallow Soul etc) got nerfed to not be doing hot aoe heals along with their damage.

    The purge is tied to the synergy. It's stupid to include that on its power table as including synergies makes anything with a synergy look op.

    Swallow soul is a spammable and had a much higher hps per target. Its nothing line ritual of ret.

    Path was gutted.

    The change is fine if they reduce the cost. This is a tough pill to swallow for stampys.

    I agree. Thing is, Stamplar (especially) lack of healing (in PvP espcially) and this nerf isn't going to help. Less DPS (or heal) Less burst (to not say : inexistant) because of jab/bl/backlash's changes/nerf.
    And the worse is : ZOS dosent even communcate with us on this terrible state.
  • Maulkin
    Maulkin
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    EtTuBrutus wrote: »
    It's itp
    Maulkin wrote: »
    Stx wrote: »
    Aznarb wrote: »
    The change is good, an ability should never do dmg and heal at the same time, that always a bad thing balance wise.
    This ability is overloaded since so long it doesn't surprise me it get finally nerf.

    That not like this ability was doing
    - purge
    - synergy for everyone like orb
    - heal
    - damage
    - minor mending, thx to passive
    - extremely high radius

    What happen now ?
    Morph 1 : You still get everything but healing
    Morph 2 : You still get everything but dmg

    You don't seem to really know what you're talking about. There are lots of abilities in the game that deal damage and heal. Ritual of ret wasnt overpowered. It only lasted 12 seconds and had a high cost.

    Listing all the templar skill tree passives that interacted with ritual is also a silly argument, because EVERY class has skill tree passives that interact with their abilities...

    I think he knows that he's talking about and you're intentionally avoiding the point with your statement. There are indeed plenty of damage + heal skills in the game. Almost all of those (like the large list above) are exclusively healing the caster. You're bypassing the fact that the heal of Ritual, like the damage, is an aoe in a large radius. It doesn't just heal the caster, it heals everyone. You would do 20-30k hps in a stacked group (in PvE) for 12 secs, while also doing damage, providing a synergy and purging.

    There aren't many (any in fact) skills like that any more. The ones that were like that (Refreshing Path, Swallow Soul etc) got nerfed to not be doing hot aoe heals along with their damage.

    The purge is tied to the synergy. It's stupid to include that on its power table as including synergies makes anything with a synergy look op.

    Swallow soul is a spammable and had a much higher hps per target. Its nothing line ritual of ret.

    Path was gutted.

    The change is fine if they reduce the cost. This is a tough pill to swallow for stampys.

    Purge is not only tied to the Synergy only, you cleanse 2 negative effects from you when you cast the skill. So by casting it, you self-purge, deal aoe damage, aoe heal and provide a purge synergy. And yes synergies do elevate skills and should be considered in the power of the skill. Ignoring it is stupid.

    Swallow Soul has conditionally much higher self-heals, but no group heals. It can also have much lower self-heals if your opponent blocks or mitigates the dmg from Swallow. Ritual heals the whole group, it doesn't require a target and it doesn't scale from the damage you've done.

    As I've mentioned in other posts, I'm all for reducing the cost, leaving the heal as a self-heal only or even better, giving stamplars self-heals on other damaging skills (Jabs/PL). But Ritual was too strong compared to other AOE skills in the game.
    Edited by Maulkin on July 31, 2020 8:07AM
    EU | PC | AD
  • Sergykid
    Sergykid
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    Aznarb wrote: »
    The change is good, an ability should never do dmg and heal at the same time, that always a bad thing balance wise.
    This ability is overloaded since so long it doesn't surprise me it get finally nerf.

    That not like this ability was doing
    - purge
    - synergy for everyone like orb
    - heal
    - damage
    - minor mending, thx to passive
    - extremely high radius

    - 2 effects purge is laughable for this cost
    - synergy is not for everyone, it's just once for one player per initial cast just like Conduit from Liquid Lightning
    - heal is just "acceptable" mainly useful for pve only
    - damage even if scaled it's magic damage, no use from pen or sets or such
    - minor mending is fine but what use for a dps, since the morph is dps oriented
    - radius is from the "large" category of aoes, wouldn't call it "extremely high"

    all in all a good rounded ability, not too strong not too weak. No need for nerf

    what is this forum and why i don't like it:
    - complainers that cry without reason and without solution
    - trolls that give cheap or useless answers
    - people giving advice with counters that are not viable
    - bloggers that talk about their day or what they use in game
    - roleplayers that talk about fashion
    - people with solutions or bug reports are ignored
    - people that write walls of text without reason
  • Koubo
    Koubo
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    Sergykid wrote: »
    Aznarb wrote: »
    The change is good, an ability should never do dmg and heal at the same time, that always a bad thing balance wise.
    This ability is overloaded since so long it doesn't surprise me it get finally nerf.

    That not like this ability was doing
    - purge
    - synergy for everyone like orb
    - heal
    - damage
    - minor mending, thx to passive
    - extremely high radius

    - 2 effects purge is laughable for this cost
    - synergy is not for everyone, it's just once for one player per initial cast just like Conduit from Liquid Lightning
    - heal is just "acceptable" mainly useful for pve only
    - damage even if scaled it's magic damage, no use from pen or sets or such
    - minor mending is fine but what use for a dps, since the morph is dps oriented
    - radius is from the "large" category of aoes, wouldn't call it "extremely high"

    all in all a good rounded ability, not too strong not too weak. No need for nerf

    People just wont see the problem in coming. Sadly. Thanks for poiting things.
    If PTS go live, Templars (and more Stemplars) will be bench. I already avoid PvP, we cant sustain unless we go full tank which is useless anyway (and i'm not even sure it will work)
  • Maulkin
    Maulkin
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    Sergykid wrote: »
    Aznarb wrote: »
    The change is good, an ability should never do dmg and heal at the same time, that always a bad thing balance wise.
    This ability is overloaded since so long it doesn't surprise me it get finally nerf.

    That not like this ability was doing
    - purge
    - synergy for everyone like orb
    - heal
    - damage
    - minor mending, thx to passive
    - extremely high radius

    - 2 effects purge is laughable for this cost
    - synergy is not for everyone, it's just once for one player per initial cast just like Conduit from Liquid Lightning
    - heal is just "acceptable" mainly useful for pve only
    - damage even if scaled it's magic damage, no use from pen or sets or such
    - minor mending is fine but what use for a dps, since the morph is dps oriented
    - radius is from the "large" category of aoes, wouldn't call it "extremely high"

    all in all a good rounded ability, not too strong not too weak. No need for nerf

    The 2 effects purge is not laughable for the cost, because that's not all the ability does is it?

    Funny you mention Liquid Lightning in your analysis which is the Sorc ground AoE and yet smaller radius, no self-purge, no aoe heal, does not scale with highest stats (mag or stam) and doesn't do more damage or offer more synergies... and then come up with the conclusion that Ritual is fine and not too strong.

    It's not really an opinion guys, come on. Objectively looking at it, it was just too strong hence the adjustment.

    However, a cost reduction should be in order. And Stamplar in particular should be compensated elsewhere for some needed self-heals. Instead of having an all-in-one ability that does purge, dmg, heals, synergy.

    EU | PC | AD
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