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Ritual of Retribution

  • Aznarb
    Aznarb
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    The change is good, an ability should never do dmg and heal at the same time, that always a bad thing balance wise.
    This ability is overloaded since so long it doesn't surprise me it get finally nerf.

    That not like this ability was doing
    - purge
    - synergy for everyone like orb
    - heal
    - damage
    - minor mending, thx to passive
    - extremely high radius

    What happen now ?
    Morph 1 : You still get everything but healing
    Morph 2 : You still get everything but dmg
    Edited by Aznarb on July 24, 2020 3:26AM
    PC - EU

    All class - Healer

    coming back to try change

    My English is far from perfect but I try my best !
  • Aznarb
    Aznarb
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Aznarb wrote: »
    [snip]
    The change is good, an ability should never do dmg and heal at the same time, that always a bad thing balance wise.

    That not like this ability was doing
    - purge
    - synergy for everyone like orb
    - heal
    - damage
    - minor mending, thx to passive
    - extremely high radius

    What happen now ?
    Morph 1 : You still get everything but healing
    Morph 2 : You still get everything but dmg

    [snip]

    [Edited for Baiting]

    Here are skills which deal damage and heal oneself or group-mates, from every skill line:

    Nightblade: Strife (both morphs), Sap Essence, Grim Focus (both morphs), Soul Shred (ultimate - both morphs), Veil of Blades (ultimate)

    Sorcerer: Blood Magic passive heals when you hit someone with Dark Magic skills (Crystal Fragments, Daedric Mines, Rune Cage, Shattering Prison) not to mention any damage skill can heal a Sorcerer when using Critical Surge.

    Dragonknight: , Burning Embers, Inhale, Power Lash proc, Obsidian Shard, Shattering Rocks, Battle Roar passive causes any ultimate to return health/magicka/stamina

    Warden: Arctic Blast, Lotus Flower causes all light/heavy attacks to heal oneself, Bond With Nature passive causes all Animal skills to heal you once recast or duration ends.

    Necromancer: Avid Boneyard self-synergy, Death Scythe, Bone Goliath (ultimate)

    Templar: Puncturing Sweep, Purifying Light, Radiant Glory

    Werewolf: Claws of Life

    Vampire: Vampiric Drain, Blood Scion (ultimate)

    Psijic Order: Crushing Weapon

    Templar isn't even close to having the widest variety of combination damage/healing utilities.

    And none of them give as much effect as does the ritual at once.
    Edited by ZOS_KageW on July 24, 2020 3:51AM
    PC - EU

    All class - Healer

    coming back to try change

    My English is far from perfect but I try my best !
  • the1andonlyskwex
    the1andonlyskwex
    ✭✭✭✭
    Aznarb wrote: »
    Aznarb wrote: »
    Can't believe people cry because one of the most overload skill in the game get a nerf it deserve since years.
    The change is good, an ability should never do dmg and heal at the same time, that always a bad thing balance wise.

    That not like this ability was doing
    - purge
    - synergy for everyone like orb
    - heal
    - damage
    - minor mending, thx to passive
    - extremely high radius

    What happen now ?
    Morph 1 : You still get everything but healing
    Morph 2 : You still get everything but dmg

    Awww so unfair :'(

    Try to play other class before complaining.

    Here are skills which deal damage and heal oneself or group-mates, from every skill line:

    Nightblade: Strife (both morphs), Sap Essence, Grim Focus (both morphs), Soul Shred (ultimate - both morphs), Veil of Blades (ultimate)

    Sorcerer: Blood Magic passive heals when you hit someone with Dark Magic skills (Crystal Fragments, Daedric Mines, Rune Cage, Shattering Prison) not to mention any damage skill can heal a Sorcerer when using Critical Surge.

    Dragonknight: , Burning Embers, Inhale, Power Lash proc, Obsidian Shard, Shattering Rocks, Battle Roar passive causes any ultimate to return health/magicka/stamina

    Warden: Arctic Blast, Lotus Flower causes all light/heavy attacks to heal oneself, Bond With Nature passive causes all Animal skills to heal you once recast or duration ends.

    Necromancer: Avid Boneyard self-synergy, Death Scythe, Bone Goliath (ultimate)

    Templar: Puncturing Sweep, Purifying Light, Radiant Glory

    Werewolf: Claws of Life

    Vampire: Vampiric Drain, Blood Scion (ultimate)

    Psijic Order: Crushing Weapon

    Templar isn't even close to having the widest variety of combination damage/healing utilities.

    And none of them give as much effect as does the ritual at once.

    FYI: none of those skills cost anywhere close to how much Ritual of Retribution costs (4860 magicka) so it should have more effects than average skills, or have its cost significantly reduced otherwise. It also lasts half as long as its opposite morph Extended Ritual and so it's much more expensive to maintain consistent uptime.

    It's the 5th-highest costing skill after alliance war Siege Shield (8100), Purge (7830 magicka), Healing Ritual (another Templar skill, one notorious for being useless: 5265), Revealing Flare (5130)

    Ash Cloud would like a word (5670).

    Speaking of Ash Cloud... On live, Ritual of Retribution does 80%of the healing of Cinder Storm and 80% of the damage of Eruption over a 6x larger area, with a purge (which, as a standalone skill, is one of the most expensive abilities there is). Similarly, Ritual does 80% of the damage of Twisting Path and 80% of the healing of Refreshing Path, also over a much larger area.

    The only surprise about this nerf is that it didn't happen a year ago.
  • FlamingBeard
    FlamingBeard
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Aznarb wrote: »
    Aznarb wrote: »
    Can't believe people cry because one of the most overload skill in the game get a nerf it deserve since years.
    The change is good, an ability should never do dmg and heal at the same time, that always a bad thing balance wise.

    That not like this ability was doing
    - purge
    - synergy for everyone like orb
    - heal
    - damage
    - minor mending, thx to passive
    - extremely high radius

    What happen now ?
    Morph 1 : You still get everything but healing
    Morph 2 : You still get everything but dmg

    Awww so unfair :'(

    Try to play other class before complaining.

    Here are skills which deal damage and heal oneself or group-mates, from every skill line:

    Nightblade: Strife (both morphs), Sap Essence, Grim Focus (both morphs), Soul Shred (ultimate - both morphs), Veil of Blades (ultimate)

    Sorcerer: Blood Magic passive heals when you hit someone with Dark Magic skills (Crystal Fragments, Daedric Mines, Rune Cage, Shattering Prison) not to mention any damage skill can heal a Sorcerer when using Critical Surge.

    Dragonknight: , Burning Embers, Inhale, Power Lash proc, Obsidian Shard, Shattering Rocks, Battle Roar passive causes any ultimate to return health/magicka/stamina

    Warden: Arctic Blast, Lotus Flower causes all light/heavy attacks to heal oneself, Bond With Nature passive causes all Animal skills to heal you once recast or duration ends.

    Necromancer: Avid Boneyard self-synergy, Death Scythe, Bone Goliath (ultimate)

    Templar: Puncturing Sweep, Purifying Light, Radiant Glory

    Werewolf: Claws of Life

    Vampire: Vampiric Drain, Blood Scion (ultimate)

    Psijic Order: Crushing Weapon

    Templar isn't even close to having the widest variety of combination damage/healing utilities.

    And none of them give as much effect as does the ritual at once.

    FYI: none of those skills cost anywhere close to how much Ritual of Retribution costs (4860 magicka) so it should have more effects than average skills, or have its cost significantly reduced otherwise. It also lasts half as long as its opposite morph Extended Ritual and so it's much more expensive to maintain consistent uptime.

    It's the 5th-highest costing skill after alliance war Siege Shield (8100), Purge (7830 magicka), Healing Ritual (another Templar skill, one notorious for being useless: 5265), Revealing Flare (5130)

    Ash Cloud would like a word (5670).

    Speaking of Ash Cloud... On live, Ritual of Retribution does 80%of the healing of Cinder Storm and 80% of the damage of Eruption over a 6x larger area, with a purge (which, as a standalone skill, is one of the most expensive abilities there is). Similarly, Ritual does 80% of the damage of Twisting Path and 80% of the healing of Refreshing Path, also over a much larger area.

    The only surprise about this nerf is that it didn't happen a year ago.

    Okay I missed one lol

    That still means Ritual of Retribution is now just an extremely expensive DoT with a non-useful synergy in PvE due to the presence of alliance Purge on healers.

    Wouldn't you rather Ash Cloud be cost-reduced or buffed than other classes' skills be nerfed at random?
    Edited by FlamingBeard on July 24, 2020 4:05AM
  • the1andonlyskwex
    the1andonlyskwex
    ✭✭✭✭
    Aznarb wrote: »
    Aznarb wrote: »
    Can't believe people cry because one of the most overload skill in the game get a nerf it deserve since years.
    The change is good, an ability should never do dmg and heal at the same time, that always a bad thing balance wise.

    That not like this ability was doing
    - purge
    - synergy for everyone like orb
    - heal
    - damage
    - minor mending, thx to passive
    - extremely high radius

    What happen now ?
    Morph 1 : You still get everything but healing
    Morph 2 : You still get everything but dmg

    Awww so unfair :'(

    Try to play other class before complaining.

    Here are skills which deal damage and heal oneself or group-mates, from every skill line:

    Nightblade: Strife (both morphs), Sap Essence, Grim Focus (both morphs), Soul Shred (ultimate - both morphs), Veil of Blades (ultimate)

    Sorcerer: Blood Magic passive heals when you hit someone with Dark Magic skills (Crystal Fragments, Daedric Mines, Rune Cage, Shattering Prison) not to mention any damage skill can heal a Sorcerer when using Critical Surge.

    Dragonknight: , Burning Embers, Inhale, Power Lash proc, Obsidian Shard, Shattering Rocks, Battle Roar passive causes any ultimate to return health/magicka/stamina

    Warden: Arctic Blast, Lotus Flower causes all light/heavy attacks to heal oneself, Bond With Nature passive causes all Animal skills to heal you once recast or duration ends.

    Necromancer: Avid Boneyard self-synergy, Death Scythe, Bone Goliath (ultimate)

    Templar: Puncturing Sweep, Purifying Light, Radiant Glory

    Werewolf: Claws of Life

    Vampire: Vampiric Drain, Blood Scion (ultimate)

    Psijic Order: Crushing Weapon

    Templar isn't even close to having the widest variety of combination damage/healing utilities.

    And none of them give as much effect as does the ritual at once.

    FYI: none of those skills cost anywhere close to how much Ritual of Retribution costs (4860 magicka) so it should have more effects than average skills, or have its cost significantly reduced otherwise. It also lasts half as long as its opposite morph Extended Ritual and so it's much more expensive to maintain consistent uptime.

    It's the 5th-highest costing skill after alliance war Siege Shield (8100), Purge (7830 magicka), Healing Ritual (another Templar skill, one notorious for being useless: 5265), Revealing Flare (5130)

    Ash Cloud would like a word (5670).

    Speaking of Ash Cloud... On live, Ritual of Retribution does 80%of the healing of Cinder Storm and 80% of the damage of Eruption over a 6x larger area, with a purge (which, as a standalone skill, is one of the most expensive abilities there is). Similarly, Ritual does 80% of the damage of Twisting Path and 80% of the healing of Refreshing Path, also over a much larger area.

    The only surprise about this nerf is that it didn't happen a year ago.

    Okay I missed one lol

    That still means Ritual of Retribution is now just an extremely expensive DoT with a non-useful synergy in PvE due to the presence of alliance Purge on healers.

    Which means it's still better than Eruption, Twisting Path, Winter's Revenge, and both Lightning Splash morphs, and roughly comparable Boneyard and its morphs.

    P.S. You also missed Daedric Mines (5400), Magelight (5130), and Time Stop (7830).
    Edited by the1andonlyskwex on July 24, 2020 4:17AM
  • FlamingBeard
    FlamingBeard
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Aznarb wrote: »
    Aznarb wrote: »
    Can't believe people cry because one of the most overload skill in the game get a nerf it deserve since years.
    The change is good, an ability should never do dmg and heal at the same time, that always a bad thing balance wise.

    That not like this ability was doing
    - purge
    - synergy for everyone like orb
    - heal
    - damage
    - minor mending, thx to passive
    - extremely high radius

    What happen now ?
    Morph 1 : You still get everything but healing
    Morph 2 : You still get everything but dmg

    Awww so unfair :'(

    Try to play other class before complaining.

    Here are skills which deal damage and heal oneself or group-mates, from every skill line:

    Nightblade: Strife (both morphs), Sap Essence, Grim Focus (both morphs), Soul Shred (ultimate - both morphs), Veil of Blades (ultimate)

    Sorcerer: Blood Magic passive heals when you hit someone with Dark Magic skills (Crystal Fragments, Daedric Mines, Rune Cage, Shattering Prison) not to mention any damage skill can heal a Sorcerer when using Critical Surge.

    Dragonknight: , Burning Embers, Inhale, Power Lash proc, Obsidian Shard, Shattering Rocks, Battle Roar passive causes any ultimate to return health/magicka/stamina

    Warden: Arctic Blast, Lotus Flower causes all light/heavy attacks to heal oneself, Bond With Nature passive causes all Animal skills to heal you once recast or duration ends.

    Necromancer: Avid Boneyard self-synergy, Death Scythe, Bone Goliath (ultimate)

    Templar: Puncturing Sweep, Purifying Light, Radiant Glory

    Werewolf: Claws of Life

    Vampire: Vampiric Drain, Blood Scion (ultimate)

    Psijic Order: Crushing Weapon

    Templar isn't even close to having the widest variety of combination damage/healing utilities.

    And none of them give as much effect as does the ritual at once.

    FYI: none of those skills cost anywhere close to how much Ritual of Retribution costs (4860 magicka) so it should have more effects than average skills, or have its cost significantly reduced otherwise. It also lasts half as long as its opposite morph Extended Ritual and so it's much more expensive to maintain consistent uptime.

    It's the 5th-highest costing skill after alliance war Siege Shield (8100), Purge (7830 magicka), Healing Ritual (another Templar skill, one notorious for being useless: 5265), Revealing Flare (5130)

    Ash Cloud would like a word (5670).

    Speaking of Ash Cloud... On live, Ritual of Retribution does 80%of the healing of Cinder Storm and 80% of the damage of Eruption over a 6x larger area, with a purge (which, as a standalone skill, is one of the most expensive abilities there is). Similarly, Ritual does 80% of the damage of Twisting Path and 80% of the healing of Refreshing Path, also over a much larger area.

    The only surprise about this nerf is that it didn't happen a year ago.

    Okay I missed one lol

    That still means Ritual of Retribution is now just an extremely expensive DoT with a non-useful synergy in PvE due to the presence of alliance Purge on healers.

    Which means it's still better than Eruption, Twisting Path, and both Lightning Splash morphs, and roughly comparable to Winter's Revenge and the Boneyard morphs.

    All of those skills interact with their classes' passives while Ritual of Retribution now only grants a healing and block mitigation passive, which provides nearly no benefit to a DPS build in PvE.
  • the1andonlyskwex
    the1andonlyskwex
    ✭✭✭✭
    Aznarb wrote: »
    Aznarb wrote: »
    Can't believe people cry because one of the most overload skill in the game get a nerf it deserve since years.
    The change is good, an ability should never do dmg and heal at the same time, that always a bad thing balance wise.

    That not like this ability was doing
    - purge
    - synergy for everyone like orb
    - heal
    - damage
    - minor mending, thx to passive
    - extremely high radius

    What happen now ?
    Morph 1 : You still get everything but healing
    Morph 2 : You still get everything but dmg

    Awww so unfair :'(

    Try to play other class before complaining.

    Here are skills which deal damage and heal oneself or group-mates, from every skill line:

    Nightblade: Strife (both morphs), Sap Essence, Grim Focus (both morphs), Soul Shred (ultimate - both morphs), Veil of Blades (ultimate)

    Sorcerer: Blood Magic passive heals when you hit someone with Dark Magic skills (Crystal Fragments, Daedric Mines, Rune Cage, Shattering Prison) not to mention any damage skill can heal a Sorcerer when using Critical Surge.

    Dragonknight: , Burning Embers, Inhale, Power Lash proc, Obsidian Shard, Shattering Rocks, Battle Roar passive causes any ultimate to return health/magicka/stamina

    Warden: Arctic Blast, Lotus Flower causes all light/heavy attacks to heal oneself, Bond With Nature passive causes all Animal skills to heal you once recast or duration ends.

    Necromancer: Avid Boneyard self-synergy, Death Scythe, Bone Goliath (ultimate)

    Templar: Puncturing Sweep, Purifying Light, Radiant Glory

    Werewolf: Claws of Life

    Vampire: Vampiric Drain, Blood Scion (ultimate)

    Psijic Order: Crushing Weapon

    Templar isn't even close to having the widest variety of combination damage/healing utilities.

    And none of them give as much effect as does the ritual at once.

    FYI: none of those skills cost anywhere close to how much Ritual of Retribution costs (4860 magicka) so it should have more effects than average skills, or have its cost significantly reduced otherwise. It also lasts half as long as its opposite morph Extended Ritual and so it's much more expensive to maintain consistent uptime.

    It's the 5th-highest costing skill after alliance war Siege Shield (8100), Purge (7830 magicka), Healing Ritual (another Templar skill, one notorious for being useless: 5265), Revealing Flare (5130)

    Ash Cloud would like a word (5670).

    Speaking of Ash Cloud... On live, Ritual of Retribution does 80%of the healing of Cinder Storm and 80% of the damage of Eruption over a 6x larger area, with a purge (which, as a standalone skill, is one of the most expensive abilities there is). Similarly, Ritual does 80% of the damage of Twisting Path and 80% of the healing of Refreshing Path, also over a much larger area.

    The only surprise about this nerf is that it didn't happen a year ago.

    Okay I missed one lol

    That still means Ritual of Retribution is now just an extremely expensive DoT with a non-useful synergy in PvE due to the presence of alliance Purge on healers.

    Which means it's still better than Eruption, Twisting Path, and both Lightning Splash morphs, and roughly comparable to Winter's Revenge and the Boneyard morphs.

    All of those skills interact with their classes' passives while Ritual of Retribution now only grants a healing and block mitigation passive, which provides nearly no benefit to a DPS build in PvE.

    I think you need to educate yourself better about classes other than Templar.
  • the1andonlyskwex
    the1andonlyskwex
    ✭✭✭✭
    Also, if you're only concerned about how much damage it does, Ritual of Retribution is getting buffed.
  • robpr
    robpr
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    What about reworking it:

    -remove the purge
    -deals X damage to every enemy in the circle that damage the caster while in the circle (thorns)
    -heals for % damage caused over 6s

    This way it would be little less overloaded and award being aggressive instead of being "just a dot"
  • maxjapank
    maxjapank
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    .

    Edited by maxjapank on July 24, 2020 6:34AM
  • Maulkin
    Maulkin
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    The change is fair. AoE Heal + Damage + Synergy made this ability extremely strong. Refreshing Path used to do damage and they removed it too a couple of years back, so they are just being consistent here.
    I think stamplar in general need some bones thrown towards them...

    Do they? Aren't stamplars the highest stamina parsers and with the simplest rotation across every class?

    EU | PC | AD
  • Maulkin
    Maulkin
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Okay I missed one lol

    That still means Ritual of Retribution is now just an extremely expensive DoT with a non-useful synergy in PvE due to the presence of alliance Purge on healers.

    Wouldn't you rather Ash Cloud be cost-reduced or buffed than other classes' skills be nerfed at random?

    Any synergy is useful in PvE because it's another way to proc synergy sets (Alkosh, Lokke etc.) and get sustain from the undaunted passives.

    You can argue about bringing the cost down on the damage morph, or changing the synergy to a different one for the damage morph, but the dual functionality of this AoE ability was certainly OTT compared to other skills.
    EU | PC | AD
  • the1andonlyskwex
    the1andonlyskwex
    ✭✭✭✭
    Maulkin wrote: »
    Okay I missed one lol

    That still means Ritual of Retribution is now just an extremely expensive DoT with a non-useful synergy in PvE due to the presence of alliance Purge on healers.

    Wouldn't you rather Ash Cloud be cost-reduced or buffed than other classes' skills be nerfed at random?

    Any synergy is useful in PvE because it's another way to proc synergy sets (Alkosh, Lokke etc.) and get sustain from the undaunted passives.

    You can argue about bringing the cost down on the damage morph, or changing the synergy to a different one for the damage morph, but the dual functionality of this AoE ability was certainly OTT compared to other skills.

    Between the huge area of effect and the purge (which costs 5400 magicka all by itself in the Support skill line) it's hard to argue for a cost reduction.
  • Maulkin
    Maulkin
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Maulkin wrote: »
    Okay I missed one lol

    That still means Ritual of Retribution is now just an extremely expensive DoT with a non-useful synergy in PvE due to the presence of alliance Purge on healers.

    Wouldn't you rather Ash Cloud be cost-reduced or buffed than other classes' skills be nerfed at random?

    Any synergy is useful in PvE because it's another way to proc synergy sets (Alkosh, Lokke etc.) and get sustain from the undaunted passives.

    You can argue about bringing the cost down on the damage morph, or changing the synergy to a different one for the damage morph, but the dual functionality of this AoE ability was certainly OTT compared to other skills.

    Between the huge area of effect and the purge (which costs 5400 magicka all by itself in the Support skill line) it's hard to argue for a cost reduction.

    Oh it certainly is. But with it only removing 2 effects from the caster (+1 synergy activator) vs 3 effects from the whole raid, you could make a case. It's impossible to argue that the ability didn't have too much bundled in it though. There wasn't another one like it in the game.

    EU | PC | AD
  • stefj68
    stefj68
    ✭✭
    Sahidom wrote: »
    stefj68 wrote: »
    without that heal i wont be able to solo anymore with my stamplar, unless i do pvp and get that healing skills from that branch... i hate pvp ;(

    I don't believe that's true. In PVP, Retribution helps your opponent proc their own set bonuses than it does heal or deal damage. The Extended morph is a better option thats dual-purpose for both PVE and PVP.

    With the changes to earlier accessibility of Vigor in the update here will help significantly; plus with Extended to cleanse negative effects and HOT overlapping Vigor, you'll do just fine self-healing with either choices.

    PvE content is not deadly.

    i will never pvp, i hate it!
  • Maulkin
    Maulkin
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    ✭✭✭
    Stx wrote: »
    Aznarb wrote: »
    The change is good, an ability should never do dmg and heal at the same time, that always a bad thing balance wise.
    This ability is overloaded since so long it doesn't surprise me it get finally nerf.

    That not like this ability was doing
    - purge
    - synergy for everyone like orb
    - heal
    - damage
    - minor mending, thx to passive
    - extremely high radius

    What happen now ?
    Morph 1 : You still get everything but healing
    Morph 2 : You still get everything but dmg

    You don't seem to really know what you're talking about. There are lots of abilities in the game that deal damage and heal. Ritual of ret wasnt overpowered. It only lasted 12 seconds and had a high cost.

    Listing all the templar skill tree passives that interacted with ritual is also a silly argument, because EVERY class has skill tree passives that interact with their abilities...

    I think he knows that he's talking about and you're intentionally avoiding the point with your statement. There are indeed plenty of damage + heal skills in the game. Almost all of those (like the large list above) are exclusively healing the caster. You're bypassing the fact that the heal of Ritual, like the damage, is an aoe in a large radius. It doesn't just heal the caster, it heals everyone. You would do 20-30k hps in a stacked group (in PvE) for 12 secs, while also doing damage, providing a synergy and purging.

    There aren't many (any in fact) skills like that any more. The ones that were like that (Refreshing Path, Swallow Soul etc) got nerfed to not be doing hot aoe heals along with their damage.
    EU | PC | AD
  • MellowMagic
    MellowMagic
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    I think my main point kinda got derailed, although I'd love if this skill was reverted back to live, my main gripe is if this is now a pure dps morph it should do physical damage for a stamplar similar to soul trap. It's not worth slotting over extended otherwise.
    PC / NA @MellowMagic
    Main:
    EP / Dëo / Imperial / Templar / Flawless Conqueror
    By the Divines...
  • Nemesis7884
    Nemesis7884
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    ✭✭✭✭✭
    the damage version is too expensive and doesnt do enough damage...

    I would add minor maim to the damage version and have it do either physical or magical damage depending on stats...that would be nice and templar is lacking minor maim options
  • Stx
    Stx
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Maulkin wrote: »
    Stx wrote: »
    Aznarb wrote: »
    The change is good, an ability should never do dmg and heal at the same time, that always a bad thing balance wise.
    This ability is overloaded since so long it doesn't surprise me it get finally nerf.

    That not like this ability was doing
    - purge
    - synergy for everyone like orb
    - heal
    - damage
    - minor mending, thx to passive
    - extremely high radius

    What happen now ?
    Morph 1 : You still get everything but healing
    Morph 2 : You still get everything but dmg

    You don't seem to really know what you're talking about. There are lots of abilities in the game that deal damage and heal. Ritual of ret wasnt overpowered. It only lasted 12 seconds and had a high cost.

    Listing all the templar skill tree passives that interacted with ritual is also a silly argument, because EVERY class has skill tree passives that interact with their abilities...

    I think he knows that he's talking about and you're intentionally avoiding the point with your statement. There are indeed plenty of damage + heal skills in the game. Almost all of those (like the large list above) are exclusively healing the caster. You're bypassing the fact that the heal of Ritual, like the damage, is an aoe in a large radius. It doesn't just heal the caster, it heals everyone. You would do 20-30k hps in a stacked group (in PvE) for 12 secs, while also doing damage, providing a synergy and purging.

    There aren't many (any in fact) skills like that any more. The ones that were like that (Refreshing Path, Swallow Soul etc) got nerfed to not be doing hot aoe heals along with their damage.

    So remove the synergy, remove the tiny purge, remove the group heal, leave the heal for the templar. The other morph can be for group support. Stamplar has 0 class healing.
  • igniz93
    igniz93
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    This and the jabs changes are really bad for stamplars...
  • notyuu
    notyuu
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    Ok..so they are bent on changing ritual or retribution to be damage only then it should tick once per second rather than once every 2 seconds to make it actually worth a damn, on top of that the damage type should be physical OR magic depending on whichever is higher

    ya do those and the power will remain used by at least some people..if ya don't it's gonna end up like restoring/radiant aura..a literal dead power with 0 application range.
  • Joy_Division
    Joy_Division
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    This skill Morph losing its heal makes it hard to consider slotting for a Stamplar now.

    Despite the fact that it scales with your highest offensive stats it still does only magic damage. It should function similarly to Soul trap which does physical or magic damage based on your highest stats.

    I dont think the heal should've been removed completely, a token 50-75% heal reduction compared to the other morph would allow stamplars to potentially trigger the newly updated passive, plus it just seems silly that this massive glowing aura of light....doesn't heal at all, even if it was an insignificant weak heal. I will be probably slotting extended for both pvp and pve now if this morph goes live.

    The problem you are facing is that ZOS has removed the multi-functionality of every skill in the game, so this is clearly intended and it's not changing.

    I think what you mean is that you will waste time and money switching between Extended and Retribution for PvP and PvE as your healer doesn't need your Stamplar's Extended.
    Edited by Joy_Division on July 25, 2020 10:34AM
    It's sad the update ZOS devotes to performance improvements has degraded Cyrodiil to lows not seen since the Infamous "Lighting Patch"" of June 2014.

  • Maulkin
    Maulkin
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    Stx wrote: »
    Maulkin wrote: »
    Stx wrote: »
    Aznarb wrote: »
    The change is good, an ability should never do dmg and heal at the same time, that always a bad thing balance wise.
    This ability is overloaded since so long it doesn't surprise me it get finally nerf.

    That not like this ability was doing
    - purge
    - synergy for everyone like orb
    - heal
    - damage
    - minor mending, thx to passive
    - extremely high radius

    What happen now ?
    Morph 1 : You still get everything but healing
    Morph 2 : You still get everything but dmg

    You don't seem to really know what you're talking about. There are lots of abilities in the game that deal damage and heal. Ritual of ret wasnt overpowered. It only lasted 12 seconds and had a high cost.

    Listing all the templar skill tree passives that interacted with ritual is also a silly argument, because EVERY class has skill tree passives that interact with their abilities...

    I think he knows that he's talking about and you're intentionally avoiding the point with your statement. There are indeed plenty of damage + heal skills in the game. Almost all of those (like the large list above) are exclusively healing the caster. You're bypassing the fact that the heal of Ritual, like the damage, is an aoe in a large radius. It doesn't just heal the caster, it heals everyone. You would do 20-30k hps in a stacked group (in PvE) for 12 secs, while also doing damage, providing a synergy and purging.

    There aren't many (any in fact) skills like that any more. The ones that were like that (Refreshing Path, Swallow Soul etc) got nerfed to not be doing hot aoe heals along with their damage.

    So remove the synergy, remove the tiny purge, remove the group heal, leave the heal for the templar. The other morph can be for group support. Stamplar has 0 class healing.

    I wouldn't personally have any arguments against that at all, from the point of balancing. My only argument is that I generally don't feel that the Restoring Light tree is a good place for damage skills, there are literally two other trees for that. And if it is to have damage, it's more befitting the magicka version of the class.

    I would personally be more interested in seeing a stamina morph of Spear Shards raining down spears as a physical aoe dot. I think it fits better with the theme of the stamina version of the class than the sun/light damage. I would also replace the Major Savagery on Biting Jabs with a self-heal, basically turning it into a straight stamina version of Puncturing Strikes. There's plenty of ways to get that buff as is so it won't be a loss, but the heals will be sweet for stamplar that is lacking it severely like you said.
    EU | PC | AD
  • Koubo
    Koubo
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    I hope the next PTS update will bring new for Templars because it ... suks right now. no feedback, no words, nothing about the current state of the class.
  • Gorreck
    Gorreck
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    I think what you mean is that you will waste time and money switching between Extended and Retribution for PvP and PvE as your healer doesn't need your Stamplar's Extended.

    There is that, but it is a bit more complex than that. Compared to any other stamina class Stamplars have been hit and hit by healing nerfs (nerfs mostly aimed at Magplars, not Stamplars) which have also hit Stamplars relative mobility as well (which was already poor), with the nerfing of Rit Retribution Stamplars are now pretty much 100% pigeon-holed in one fairly subpar (compared to other stamina classes) setup.

    They need to do a class review of Stamplars at this point and workout a vision for them.
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