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Ritual of Retribution

  • ealdwin
    ealdwin
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    Athan1 wrote: »
    If the skill needs to be balanced then just reduce the damage component... easy solution. Radiant Aura lost its aggro, now this... tools for tanks to draw aggro are restricted.

    When did Radiant Aura aggro? Genuinely curious because all I can find is that it used to grant Major Fortitude, Endurance, and Intellect to your group when activated.
    Edited by ealdwin on July 31, 2020 1:07PM
  • VaxtinTheWolf
    VaxtinTheWolf
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    ealdwin wrote: »
    Athan1 wrote: »
    If the skill needs to be balanced then just reduce the damage component... easy solution. Radiant Aura lost its aggro, now this... tools for tanks to draw aggro are restricted.

    When did Radiant Aura aggro? Genuinely curious because all I can find is that it used to grant Major Fortitude, Endurance, and Intellect to your group when activated.

    Minor Magickasteal from this ability used to trigger combat despite only appling a debuff, and also pierced through walls.
    || AD - Rah'Jiin Lv50 Khajiit Nightblade (Damage) || EP - Generic Argonian Lv50 Argonian Nightblade (Tank) || DC - Zinkotsu Lv50 Breton Nightblade (Healer) ||
    || DC - Ja'Kiro Feral-Heart Lv50 Khajiit Dragonknight (Damage) || EP - VaxtinTheWolf Lv50 Redguard Templar (Tank) || AD - Velik Iranis Lv50 Dark Elf Sorcerer (Tank ) ||
    || EP - Einvarg The Frozen Lv50 Nord Warden (Tank/Healer) || EP - Keem-Ja Lv4 Argonian Necromancer (Healer/Tank) ||
    PC - North American Server (Champion 810+)
  • the1andonlyskwex
    the1andonlyskwex
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    Also, what I gain is a more balanced game, regardless of what class I play.
  • pklemming
    pklemming
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    Yes, but offering up opinions based on a class you have not played recently is unhelpful. Unless you have a templar and tested the changes, I fail to see how you can provide any valid input.
  • stefj68
    stefj68
    pills is too hard for my stampy, to heal like i was i will have to use both new ror + 2x vigor... even if they lower the cost i will loose tons of stamina from the vigor parts just to rebalance heal i need to stay alive...
  • pklemming
    pklemming
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    It also doesn't sound at all like you are seeking a 'balanced' game.
  • the1andonlyskwex
    the1andonlyskwex
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    pklemming wrote: »
    Yes, but offering up opinions based on a class you have not played recently is unhelpful. Unless you have a templar and tested the changes, I fail to see how you can provide any valid input.

    If ZOS is going to "balance by spreadsheet", it doesn't require playing a Templar to tell that RoR's numbers are all messed up and the nerf is warranted.

    If you think Templars as a whole need buffs , try arguing for reworks or changes to underperforming skills instead of clutching to your massively overloaded crutches (like RoR and jabs/sweeps).

    Personally, I think ZOS needs to hurry up and rebalance passives like they've been promising for the last year.
    Edited by the1andonlyskwex on July 31, 2020 4:16PM
  • Koubo
    Koubo
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    pklemming wrote: »
    Yes, but offering up opinions based on a class you have not played recently is unhelpful. Unless you have a templar and tested the changes, I fail to see how you can provide any valid input.

    If ZOS is going to "balance by spreadsheet", it doesn't require playing a Templar to tell that RoR's numbers are all messed up and the nerf is warranted.

    If you think Templars as a whole need buffs , try arguing for reworks or changes to underperforming skills instead of clutching to your massively overloaded crutches (like RoR and jabs/sweeps).

    Personally, I think ZOS needs to hurry up and rebalance passives like they've been promising for the last year.

    the problem, right now, is ZOS taking one of our abilitie to self sustain and gave nothing in return while the classe is in a sh*t state. So we either ask to revert, or ask for more changes. But after 3 patchs we got nothing. Not even a word to confirm they have notice it. I dont even want to go in PvP with my Stamplar because it's degusting to see any classes able to go from 20 to 80% life in 3 sec, while whatever i try i just die. Using Rally, Vigor while in RoR never ever saved me (i play a quite heavy tanky build btw)
  • ZOS_AntonioP
    Hello everyone,

    Recently we've had to remove a few posts for baiting and flaming, content that is against the Forum Rules. For further posts be sure to stay constructive and respectful to avoid thread derailment or action on one's own account.

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  • Somewhere
    Somewhere
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    Now I don't play Templar, but I was doing some thinking and it occurred to me why this change was probably made: Server Performance.

    Ritual has a 12m radius, one of the largest available for any spammable, non-ultimate ground aoe. For each target moving into the area of an aoe, the server makes a calculation and fires the effect on the target.

    Normally a ground aoe only hits allies - to heal them, or enemies - to damage them.

    Ritual of Retribution does both. If you are in an area with a large number of both friendly and hostile targets, this skill is putting a load onto the server by performing a calculation and firing its effect on every single player that moves into the area. By removing the healing component, ZOS probably hopes to have drastically reduced the load this single skill can place on the server because now the number of potential targets is far lower. In order to compensate: they increased the damage.

    I'm just speculating based off of the aoe testing they're doing for Cyrodiil. But this change doesn't appear to have an origin in trying to bring Templar into balance with the other classes.
    Edited by Somewhere on July 31, 2020 11:19PM
  • Kadoin
    Kadoin
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    Vajrak wrote: »
    I don’t see why there is so much resistance to keeping the heal on retribution. Take a look at who actually uses it.

    PVP Tank - extended ritual
    PVE Tank - Extended ritual if at all.
    PVP DPS Magplar- Extended ritual (for the most part)
    PVE DPS Magplar - Neither morph for parsing. Retribution in some situations.
    PVP DPS Stamplar - Extended Ritual
    PVE DPS Stamplar - Retribution.
    Healers - predominately Extended except for off DPS/off heals hybrids for 4 man dungeons.

    Really the only specs that this hurts is PVE Stamplar and off healing DPS healers. Are either of these good subjects for nerfs? No.

    PVE Magplar can use it, and it will (in current form) cover 4-5k dps pretty easily.
    PVE Stamplar can use it for an extra 2-3k pretty easily as well.
    PVE Tankplar can use it for initial aggro on the area of the circle, which extended doesn't do.

    Can confirm I used it on my templar tank when it used to snare to pull trash and snare them. Then they got rid of snare, so I used it to pull trash...now they get rid of heal :D My templar tank is now shelved.

    To add to it, the gear I was using also got nerfed in Greymoor, so essentially all I have seen are nerfs and I find that to be a crappy way to "balance" a game. Take, take, take, take, take.

    What gives? Literally...
  • Hotdog_23
    Hotdog_23
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    Kadoin wrote: »
    Vajrak wrote: »
    I don’t see why there is so much resistance to keeping the heal on retribution. Take a look at who actually uses it.

    PVP Tank - extended ritual
    PVE Tank - Extended ritual if at all.
    PVP DPS Magplar- Extended ritual (for the most part)
    PVE DPS Magplar - Neither morph for parsing. Retribution in some situations.
    PVP DPS Stamplar - Extended Ritual
    PVE DPS Stamplar - Retribution.
    Healers - predominately Extended except for off DPS/off heals hybrids for 4 man dungeons.

    Really the only specs that this hurts is PVE Stamplar and off healing DPS healers. Are either of these good subjects for nerfs? No.

    PVE Magplar can use it, and it will (in current form) cover 4-5k dps pretty easily.
    PVE Stamplar can use it for an extra 2-3k pretty easily as well.
    PVE Tankplar can use it for initial aggro on the area of the circle, which extended doesn't do.

    Can confirm I used it on my templar tank when it used to snare to pull trash and snare them. Then they got rid of snare, so I used it to pull trash...now they get rid of heal :D My templar tank is now shelved.

    To add to it, the gear I was using also got nerfed in Greymoor, so essentially all I have seen are nerfs and I find that to be a crappy way to "balance" a game. Take, take, take, take, take.

    What gives? Literally...

    Tankplar needs a lot of help. Definitely the worse of all the class to tank on.

    Side note:
    C’mon on ZOS give us a bone add Major Brutality and Sorcery to Rune Focus. Looks like the ship has sailed on Ritual of Retribution :s . Give stamplar a way to heal in class please.
  • Athan1
    Athan1
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    ealdwin wrote: »
    When did Radiant Aura aggro? Genuinely curious because all I can find is that it used to grant Major Fortitude, Endurance, and Intellect to your group when activated.

    Up until a couple months ago it would draw aggro. I was using it on my healer and kept dying because of it. Now I tried it again and it doesn't trigger combat or draw aggro so I slotted it again.

    Altmer Templar (PC-EU-AD)
    "Stendarr's Mercy be upon you, for the Vigil has none to spare." - Vigilants of Stendarr
    "Not all of us are fans of being united with our feral little cousins and furry friends." - Watch Captain Astanya
  • stefj68
    stefj68
    they should just change ritual of retribution to self heal hot for the same amout as it was before, and stamplar can survive... or at least have a chance
  • Koubo
    Koubo
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    I'm gone bet they wont do anything at this point.
    Somewhere wrote: »
    In order to compensate: they increased the damage.
    Damage wise, it's crap. The "up" is just CRAP.
    If i found your argument solid, they cant remove something the class lack (self healing / sustain and survivability) and not considere giving something back. + RoR damage wise is really not great (like from 4% live to 5% PTS?!?)
  • Somewhere
    Somewhere
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    Koubo wrote: »
    I'm gone bet they wont do anything at this point.
    Somewhere wrote: »
    In order to compensate: they increased the damage.
    Damage wise, it's crap. The "up" is just CRAP.
    If i found your argument solid, they cant remove something the class lack (self healing / sustain and survivability) and not considere giving something back. + RoR damage wise is really not great (like from 4% live to 5% PTS?!?)

    I didn't say anything about whether it was a good enough compensation. I don't play templar, so I can't really say. I am just speculating on their reasoning is all.
  • Koubo
    Koubo
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    Somewhere wrote: »
    Koubo wrote: »
    I'm gone bet they wont do anything at this point.
    Somewhere wrote: »
    In order to compensate: they increased the damage.
    Damage wise, it's crap. The "up" is just CRAP.
    If i found your argument solid, they cant remove something the class lack (self healing / sustain and survivability) and not considere giving something back. + RoR damage wise is really not great (like from 4% live to 5% PTS?!?)

    I didn't say anything about whether it was a good enough compensation. I don't play templar, so I can't really say. I am just speculating on their reasoning is all.

    In that case, i dont see why Necro should be that overload too. Take a look at that huge Ultimate, bring a unique INSANE bebuff. Have seen many trials needed multiple Necro just because of that. And ZOS think it's normal?!?
    If we chose to follow your theory :)
    I think, another (at least) class should bring Major Vulnerability. But this is 100% off topic (i just hope they will see it and so something FFS)
  • Athan1
    Athan1
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    Somewhere wrote: »
    it occurred to me why this change was probably made: Server Performance. By removing the healing component, ZOS probably hopes to have drastically reduced the load this single skill can place on the server because now the number of potential targets is far lower.
    This says it all really.

    Altmer Templar (PC-EU-AD)
    "Stendarr's Mercy be upon you, for the Vigil has none to spare." - Vigilants of Stendarr
    "Not all of us are fans of being united with our feral little cousins and furry friends." - Watch Captain Astanya
  • Stahlor
    Stahlor
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    ...let them sell a few more Necro updates and the nerf will come. I´m pretty sure.
  • Gorreck
    Gorreck
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    Somewhere wrote: »
    I didn't say anything about whether it was a good enough compensation. I don't play templar, so I can't really say. I am just speculating on their reasoning is all.


    I can't see why anyone would ever use the PTS Rit of Ret when it goes live, too expensive and not enough damage compared to better existing options.

    It'll just be another morph that is used by no one.
  • Koubo
    Koubo
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    Stahlor wrote: »
    ...let them sell a few more Necro updates and the nerf will come. I´m pretty sure.

    with the crowns selling, i'm not sure they really need more money.
    I mean, every compagnie need more money, but following this rule, they wont ever change Nec&Den

    It's not very healthy to push people to quite the game because of that either, it's not intended but the result is the same.
  • Koubo
    Koubo
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    6.1.3 deployed and still nothing from ZOS to let us they are aware about Templar's state on live/pts
    that's insane -_-
  • igniz93
    igniz93
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    Dead skill confirmed boiis
  • StarOfElyon
    StarOfElyon
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    They basically just nerfed solo PVE play for Templars. This sucks.
  • Drdeath20
    Drdeath20
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    Just do yourself a favor and retire your templar. At their very best they were never the top spec in the game. Just too many dead skills and an overall erratic toolkit.
  • Koubo
    Koubo
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    They basically just nerfed solo PVE play for Templars. This sucks.

    Mostly Stamplar. BeamPlar (MagPlar) have other sources of healing for PvE (Jab, Purif on top of them)
    Stamplar have Vigor, which is strong but also not a Class abilitie. I think, it will mostly hurt (in my opinion) in dungeon, trial and vMA.
    And how it affect PvP for a already low Class is the most annoying. How can they let a class so bad there, nerf it a bit more, and let it again?
    I just dont understand
    Drdeath20 wrote: »
    Just do yourself a favor and retire your templar. At their very best they were never the top spec in the game. Just too many dead skills and an overall erratic toolkit.

    I'm almost doing that, but i feel really bad as it's my main, my first character. Everything should be playble more or less. Not as dead as it is (in PvP mostly - i didn't progress enough in PvE to judge, but mele&stam arent welcome anyway)
  • Gorreck
    Gorreck
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    renne wrote: »
    The excessive magicka cost for a mediocre damage aoe is literally not worth slotting. If I decide not to swap over to the healing morph, I won't even be leaving any skill points in it when there'll be more valuable, cheaper aoes I can use that precious bar space on.

    I honestly cannot see the situation where anyone would use it over a different (better) DPS AOE or even DOT frankly.

    If it were really cheap to run them maybe some would.
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