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Ritual of Retribution

MellowMagic
MellowMagic
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This skill Morph losing its heal makes it hard to consider slotting for a Stamplar now.

Despite the fact that it scales with your highest offensive stats it still does only magic damage. It should function similarly to Soul trap which does physical or magic damage based on your highest stats.

I dont think the heal should've been removed completely, a token 50-75% heal reduction compared to the other morph would allow stamplars to potentially trigger the newly updated passive, plus it just seems silly that this massive glowing aura of light....doesn't heal at all, even if it was an insignificant weak heal. I will be probably slotting extended for both pvp and pve now if this morph goes live.
PC / NA @MellowMagic
Imperial named with some sort of variation of "Deo"
By the Divines...
  • VoidCommander
    VoidCommander
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    Damage wise, it is very strong. It is however, very expensive to run. I was only running it this patch because I needed to heal for blood for blood, and I had spare magicka because, again, of blood for blood. Now it will be a question of your sustain. If you run nerfed false gods or are a breton, go for it for the damage. Otherwise, stick with something cheaper.
  • MellowMagic
    MellowMagic
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    Damage wise, it is very strong. It is however, very expensive to run. I was only running it this patch because I needed to heal for blood for blood, and I had spare magicka because, again, of blood for blood. Now it will be a question of your sustain. If you run nerfed false gods or are a breton, go for it for the damage. Otherwise, stick with something cheaper.

    Yeah but im mostly talking about stamplars, which can easily sustain ritual in our rotation because its our only magic skill. My main gripe is if this is now a dps skill, it should scale accordingly if they intended stamplars to use it. The dps Ritual added was almost negligible but it gave a good group heal and a synergy, now its slightly stronger but lost half its utility, Soul Trap functions exactly how Ritual should.
    PC / NA @MellowMagic
    Imperial named with some sort of variation of "Deo"
    By the Divines...
  • Nemesis7884
    Nemesis7884
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    I think stamplar in general need some bones thrown towards them...
  • montiferus
    montiferus
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    I took a look at my most recent parse and ritual accounted for 2,757 DPS with an average damage value of 6,743 (11,273 max). Based on this change the average damage will now go up to 8,313 which is a 23% increase. This would up my parse by 634 which is a decent damage boost. That said it does suck to lose the group utility of that heal which would affect everyone in melee range.

    Keep in mind I'm not at max CP so all of these numbers will be higher at max CP.

    If you have a solid group the loss of the heal shouldn't matter so overall I think this is a slight buff. That said if they reverted the change I would be ok with that as well.

    ny7tyaelv7et.jpg
    Edited by montiferus on July 14, 2020 6:50PM
  • MellowMagic
    MellowMagic
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    montiferus wrote: »
    I took a look at my most recent parse and ritual accounted for 2,757 DPS with an average damage value of 6,743 (11,273 max). Based on this change the average damage will now go up to 8,313 which is a 23% increase. This would up my parse by 634 which is a decent damage boost. That said it does suck to lose the group utility of that heal which would affect everyone in melee range.

    Keep in mind I'm not at max CP so all of these numbers will be higher at max CP.

    If you have a solid group the loss of the heal shouldn't matter so overall I think this is a slight buff. That said if they reverted the change I would be ok with that as well.

    ny7tyaelv7et.jpg

    600 extra dps isnt worth the healing that ritual provided, yea your group will normally cover you but what about solo content or even 4 man dungeons, pvp? this isnt a buff. If they just made it do physical or magic damage based on your offensive stats then the loss of heal would be worth it.

    Its doing 2.7k dps for you, its was around 3k for me but im 810 cp. even at 3k dps its less then a proc set and a dual wield passive. unslotting this ability entirely or slotting something like poison injection basically nets you the same dps. I bet if this skill did physical damage for a stamplar it would provide around 4k+ish dps, which would be the perfect trade off between ritual and extended.
    PC / NA @MellowMagic
    Imperial named with some sort of variation of "Deo"
    By the Divines...
  • Altyrann
    Altyrann
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    Without a heal componen this just feels like an expensive AoE skill. Magicka Templar already has plenty of those and Stamina gets lots of utility from the heal given fewer sources elsewhere.
  • StarOfElyon
    StarOfElyon
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    This skill Morph losing its heal makes it hard to consider slotting for a Stamplar now.

    Despite the fact that it scales with your highest offensive stats it still does only magic damage. It should function similarly to Soul trap which does physical or magic damage based on your highest stats.

    I dont think the heal should've been removed completely, a token 50-75% heal reduction compared to the other morph would allow stamplars to potentially trigger the newly updated passive, plus it just seems silly that this massive glowing aura of light....doesn't heal at all, even if it was an insignificant weak heal. I will be probably slotting extended for both pvp and pve now if this morph goes live.

    I've been complaining about this a lot on the magicka side. If you intend for this to be a stam discussion, please edit the title.

    But to give my thoughts on it again from a magplar perspective, that heal will be so missed. I will not slot this skill without the heal. I would rather use wall of elements and at least be able to proc a status effect like burning or concussed. This is a nerf for no good reason.
  • VaxtinTheWolf
    VaxtinTheWolf
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    Welcome to Nightblade's Path of Heal or DPS. I wanted path to do both again but I guess instead they took it away for Templars like they did with Nightblade's skill. Unfortunate all around.
    || AD - Rah'Jiin Lv50 Khajiit Nightblade (Damage) || EP - Generic Argonian Lv50 Argonian Nightblade (Tank) || DC - Zinkotsu Lv50 Breton Nightblade (Healer) ||
    || DC - Ja'Kiro Feral-Heart Lv50 Khajiit Dragonknight (Damage) || EP - VaxtinTheWolf Lv50 Redguard Templar (Tank) || AD - Velik Iranis Lv50 Dark Elf Sorcerer (Tank ) ||
    || EP - Einvarg The Frozen Lv50 Nord Warden (Tank/Healer) || EP - Keem-Ja Lv4 Argonian Necromancer (Healer/Tank) ||
    PC - North American Server (Champion 1300+)
  • Sheuib
    Sheuib
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    I think if they are going to take away the heal they need add something more than just a little extra damage. I would prefer if they are going to take away the heal that they leave the damage the same but let it cleanse 5 negative effects like the healing morph does. That would be a descent trade off.

    The base skill should be cleanse 5 negative effects with one morph adding the heal and the other morph adding the damage.
  • stefj68
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    without that heal i wont be able to solo anymore with my stamplar, unless i do pvp and get that healing skills from that branch... i hate pvp ;(
  • Stx
    Stx
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    Removing the heal makes this skill boring and ultimately it will be used less.

    I'm certainly not going to be using it anymore in my solo builds because the heal helped keep me alive.

    What do stamplars even have now to survive with? You stripped empowering sweep of major protection, jabs doesnt heal like sweeps, and power of the light doesnt heal like the magicka morph... and there is no class stamina heal.

    So basically, vigor is all that's left.

    I'll stick with my stamsorc thanks.
  • ecru
    ecru
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    Sheuib wrote: »
    I think if they are going to take away the heal they need add something more than just a little extra damage. I would prefer if they are going to take away the heal that they leave the damage the same but let it cleanse 5 negative effects like the healing morph does. That would be a descent trade off.

    The base skill should be cleanse 5 negative effects with one morph adding the heal and the other morph adding the damage.

    how about they add a buff that gives you 10% blocking mitigation, minor vitality, and provide everyone inside of it with a synergy that both heals and removes all debuffs from your group?
    Gryphon Heart
    Godslayer
    Dawnbringer
  • StarOfElyon
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    We already get 10% block mitigation from the sacred ground passive. That won't be enough.

    ZOS: All you have to do is bring the heal back. We shouldn't have to sacrifice healing when we already sacrificed the extra purges from the other morph.
  • dave_harter_ESO
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    Yeah, I am not in favor of removing the heal. Magika templars already had access to aoe abilities. I really liked having this do support.
  • Olupajmibanan
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    Bringing the heal back may cause templar's ultigen to skyrocket in some encounters such as Falgravn HM. I believe they removed the heal because of reworking the Light Weaver passive.

    I definitely agree that something needs to be done, because the skill is now only an expensive AoE you may find elsewhere. But bringing the heal back might cause the skill to be overloaded - big AoE dot, big AoE hot, synergy availability, ultigen. On top of that, multiple templars can stack their rituals which makes some encounters much easier than intended I believe.
    Edited by Olupajmibanan on July 15, 2020 5:22AM
  • montiferus
    montiferus
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    I've spoken to some people who have tested it on the PTS and I am now in full agreement with OP. Revert the skill back to its original form on live.

    I don't understand the need for ZOS to make changes to abilities nobody asked to modify in the first place.
  • Apox
    Apox
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    I saw only a marginal increase in dps from live to pts parsing my stamplar.

    Its worth noting that everything as a whole on pts is likely doing less damage due to the shadow mundus nerf leading to a larger dps gain than first meets the eye, but still the dps gain RoR gets is pretty irrelevant

    Id prefer the heal

    stamplar healing is already pretty subpar compared to stamblade stamsorc and maybe a few others, removing this is not good.
  • Sahidom
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    stefj68 wrote: »
    without that heal i wont be able to solo anymore with my stamplar, unless i do pvp and get that healing skills from that branch... i hate pvp ;(

    I don't believe that's true. In PVP, Retribution helps your opponent proc their own set bonuses than it does heal or deal damage. The Extended morph is a better option thats dual-purpose for both PVE and PVP.

    With the changes to earlier accessibility of Vigor in the update here will help significantly; plus with Extended to cleanse negative effects and HOT overlapping Vigor, you'll do just fine self-healing with either choices.

    PvE content is not deadly.
    Edited by Sahidom on July 16, 2020 6:12PM
  • Olupajmibanan
    Olupajmibanan
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    stefj68 wrote: »
    without that heal i wont be able to solo anymore with my stamplar, unless i do pvp and get that healing skills from that branch... i hate pvp ;(

    Vigor has been moved to first position in the skill line this patch. You don't havento PvP at all. Just tutorial quests in Cyrodiil will give you enough to unlock vigor.
  • Cinbri
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    It looks like zos decided to differentiate morphs completely. Retribution for pve dps, Extended for everyone else.
    Guess they didnt wanted for dps spec to get even more group utility by 1 skill so they removed Retribution interacting with updated Light Weaver, since most profitable procs of Weaver will be through this skill.
  • Mayrael
    Mayrael
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    Cinbri wrote: »
    It looks like zos decided to differentiate morphs completely. Retribution for pve dps, Extended for everyone else.
    Guess they didnt wanted for dps spec to get even more group utility by 1 skill so they removed Retribution interacting with updated Light Weaver, since most profitable procs of Weaver will be through this skill.

    This is the reason why in the past they nerfed magblades Path which also had DD and Heal components. Standards. I would prefer to bring back old path with healing and dealing damage and leave ritual as it is, but I guess ZOS have different vision.
    Say no to Toxic Casuals!
    I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.


    "Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge
  • Athan1
    Athan1
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    I find the nerf of this skill unfortunate, and it will probably make it obsolete. A combination of HoT and DoT made this skill unique and gave it some identity, now it'll just be another boring (and expensive) DoT. If balance is the issue, they could always just reduce the HoT component, not take it away completely.
    Athan Atticus Imperial Templar of Shezarr
  • Stx
    Stx
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    I just want to know how I can make up for the loss of this healing as a stamplar...

    Stamplar has literally zero self healing now other than Living Dark which is less than garbage.
  • Nemesis7884
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    why not turn it into a heal where enemies take more damage from your attacks while inside (or are minor maimed)
    Edited by Nemesis7884 on July 22, 2020 3:29PM
  • UnassumingNoob
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    Losing ritual healing is really frustrating.

    I liked to play an off healing dps in 4 man dungeons and queue as a healer. Between siphon Spirit, ritual of Ret and Regen it was enough healing AND I could still go into a damage roll. Ran SPC backbar, MA body and Maelstom front bar + monster set depending on dungeon.

    Now my play style is hurt by this. Healers are not needed for the most part in dungeons but in pugs sometimes they need a little and I was happy to provide it as well as doing damage myself and buffing the (more often than not mediocre at best) dps. Was a great force multiplier.

    Templar in my mind was supposed to be a combined force of damage and healing. It seemed like a paladin/battle cleric class which had always been my favorite. This skill is iconic and the removal of the heal really sucks.

    Please reconsider Zos.
  • Kadoin
    Kadoin
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    They wanted to make templar even more pathetic compared to warden. That's the only logic behind the change. After removing the snare, removing the heal makes it a complete trash skill since it no longer offers anything to make it worth slotting IMO. Not on mag nor stam.

    I'll just slot ice wall on my mag templar and throw caltrops around me on stam for NBs instead. Less trouble an save a skill slot.
  • Koubo
    Koubo
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    How can we point out the terrible problem? No heal scale on HP like the other classes, Stamplar is weak in PvP because of that lack of healing and the best they can do it's making things worse. I also dont like the "no informations/update to tell you we have acknowledge this and try our best to do something"
  • j3crow
    j3crow
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    If this change goes to live, I don't see any real good reason to run this skill as a stamplar
  • montiferus
    montiferus
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    j3crow wrote: »
    If this change goes to live, I don't see any real good reason to run this skill as a stamplar

    The change is not good to be sure but it will still be slotted. Im not giving up 3k DPS from a magicka pool i would otherwise never use in a trial.

    That said it is a bad change and should be reverted to original form.
  • Athan1
    Athan1
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    Yeah, I agree with posts above. It feels like a lot of players die to templars in Cyro and whine at how OP templars are... then we get all sorts of nerfs, which also affect pve... Templar skills have already been nerfed a quite a lot over the years, especially since we lost almost all our snares. I really hope this particular change doesn't go live.
    Athan Atticus Imperial Templar of Shezarr
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