No please. This change will push many players out the game plus it doesn't even make any sense on its own. Why are you making everything slower? Changing sets like Molag Kena?

raegun wrote: »

After doing several initial parses on the pts i have tentatively concluded that 1) its soooooo hard to test this with the skill dropping bug. I'm getting inconstant numbers because my skills are randomly not firing and therefor have no constant with which to test my numbers. I've been getting a 5k variance between tests with the same rotation. 2) on parses with a low skill drop quotient I have been getting lower dps adding in heavys than with my normal light weaving rotation. My first dummy where i had the lowest number of drops I only dropped 2k dps from live with my normal rotation. where as im loosing around 5k dps adding in two heavys per rotation.

these parses are on a magdk in perfected false gods, elfbane, Zaan, maelstrom fire staff. I didn't think to log but i will be next time i go to test.

a suggestion for another way to fix this issue: optional auto attack set up an auto attacker to do .75 light attacks per second. if you can hit higher than that great! light attack manually if not turn on the auto attacker and get boosted to a decent level of damage. still gives advantage to higher skilled players but boosts up lower skill players significantly.

I dont like the suggestion, since it may remove the effort and profit of learning the game. New players could be content with decent dps they would push thanks to auto-weaving, meanwhile the effort of the good players would be almost meaningless. Also it would cause quite the raise of "skill" in PvP...which in my opinion is unnecessary.

From the other thread (pasting before thread is deleted)

First, There should be a gap between casual players and veteran players, and while it may be too great of a gap right now, bringing the ceiling down instead of adding a step doesn’t make any sense. Buffing Heavy attacks so there’s a middle ground would be fine, but nuking light attacks into the ground and forcing veteran players to slow down combat so casual players don’t feel as bad is too far.

Second, if there isn’t going to be a PTS for console, then the forum response needs to be weighed as well. I’ve spent a year working on my LA weaving and DPS, all to find out that it could be for nothing so the game is more accessible to casual players. You are already adding treasure hunting and a vampire rework so they can RP, producing less and less End game content (I won’t be surprised if there’s no arena or mini trial in Q4 again) and now are considering nuking LA weaving.

To add: the console end-game community is small enough as it is, and making these drastic changes will only decrease that number. As a newer end-game player who has put in work to become proficient at LA weaving, this change to appeal to the expected influx of casual players who want to play “Skyrim Online”, only to find out that it isn’t that, will kill off the player base that has stuck around for years.

Last, suggesting that you’ll close feedback threads and make it only available via PTS leaves console players without a voice. This is why the change to jump/roll dodge in Scalebreaker had (hopefully?) unintended consequences for console players. Bottom line: We need a PTS.

Weeeeell, this is an ingenious way to solve the ping/stutter/latency and involuntary heavy attacks problem! suddenly it's all intended

In all honesty though, sure, there's a gap between top players and regular players, but this is just bound to widen it. And also to scare half of the top players away. And the rest of stuff that's noticeable at the first glance has probably already been said

Not good, ZOS pls don't

Actually the light, medium & heavy attacks changes are interesting.
I will check the changes in PTS.
I suggest to not judge until testing them.

Also, it may help to bridge the gap between players who have high latency to players with lower latency.
For example, my country's long distance from PC EU server makes my average latency quite high.
My lowest latency is never below 110 in open world and in Cyrodiil/Battlegrounds/Dungeons usually 250-550 lately.
This change can actually make combat more balanced when I fight players with 50 latency

ESO performance used to be better but now the latency is even worse so this can help remediate the performance gaps different players are experiencing.

Here is my feedback:

I like the concept/reasons behind the change, but not the all of the changes themselves.

1. This does nothing to change the need to LA weave for casual players. In fact b/c they tend to have more trouble managing resources, it will make it more necessary. And make it necessary for support builds like tanks and healers (this is ok to me, but again doesn't change the need to LA weave and makes it actually apply more)

2. I think some will see this as whoa, a lot of resources for LA'ing. When we know the numbers will be adjusted to make us hungry for resources. It's happened every year for years now as soon as resources start feeling good, numbers are changed to make us thirsty. So any judging on the PTS IMO will be dishonest if people like it and then the numbers are changed next patch to dampen the resource return.

3. Heavy Attack meta was super boring last time it was a thing and that was more for certain classes and builds, if it becomes the meta for every class and build dps wise (because of how much damage it can do without using any resources) then I can't imagine how boring the game will become. This also applies to lowering the skill cap - you do it too much and things become boring b/c there is no challenge in the game. (And you can lower the baskets in BBall so anyone can dunk but NBA players are skill going to whoop you at the game)

4. The Heavy Armor passive change is frankly bad. So when tanking I can risk my life squeezing in a heavy attack (yes a HA is impossible in some content, barely in others, and not a big deal in a lot of non-dlc stuff) to get a whole 300 capped resource return back? This is barely worth the risk currently on live in some situations to bother with a heavy attack unless you are desperate for resources. Now you can just weave LA for resources, which is easier of course, but why would you ever need to heavy attack? Not for damage on a support build. So this passive needs completely reworked if this whole LA/HA thing goes live. Otherwise the passive is worthless and we've already had constitution nerfed several patches ago, had one passive split in half into two while you cut another passive entirely - so giving heavy armor yet another passive that might as well not exist is a bit much. But with these changes: why in the world would you EVER heavy attack for resources to benefit from this passive instead of just a LA?

edit: also, when have you guys put something on the PTS and not rolled it out in some fashion?

Edit 2: I guess if I'm going to talk about what's bad, I should mention ideas for changing the bad:

LA should not return any resources with a single attack. I would let them return resources if you make three in a row (maybe as much as a heavy attack currently on live returns), but not for single attacks weaved in between skills. MAYBE for two in a row I'd do a return worth about a 1/3 of doing the three attacks (not 2/3's) to make doing three in a row the goal for real return. I also wouldn't cut the damage on LA's by quite as much.

HA should not return resources as suggested, keep the stuns for off balance and all that, but I would either not bring the damage up much for a HA or have it cost resources. That extra power has to come from somewhere. But adding resource drain to LA/HA might not be easy coding wise and might ask for more bugs, so I just would probably just not increase the damage of a HA by much. Add some other benefits, like several seconds Minor Fracture or Minor Breach depending on weapon type when you heavy attack.

This would also have a side benefit of making the HA passive not completely worthless as you might do a HA as support to put breach on a boss, but at least get a little resource return from doing it, though the number should still be higher IMO. Make it a flat return period, not based on damage if you want to keep it from helping HA wearers doing DD build in Cyro and not make it worthless scaling off damage for actually PvE tanks to use. You could even have it add a second or two to the duration of the HA debuff used. (Also if worried about heavy armor meta in cyrodiil, add Crit resistance passive to medium armor, would make it more desirable in PvP and without effecting PvE).

Universe wrote: »

Also, it may help to bridge the gap between players who have high latency to players with lower latency.

Then just buff heavy attack damage and not this atrocity.

So devs are actually wasting their and OUR time, resources and our money for this abomination of a "improvement"? It was fun years until it lasted, gg zos and good luck.

5cript wrote: »

Universe wrote: »

Also, it may help to bridge the gap between players who have high latency to players with lower latency.

Then just buff heavy attack damage and not this atrocity.

It won't be as beneficial as lowering the dps for light attacks.
Light attack is almost always the favorite for fast paced PVP combat or a challenging PVE content.

*No one in his right mind will use a fully charged heavy attack in PVP unless it is ganking/zerging someone(I don't encourage either).

This...
This is a colossal, TITANIC mistake. REVERT!

This is what zos wastes resources on instead of fixing a broken game. My groups who could easily clear content 4 patches ago now struggle to clear content due to broken skills or mechanics. Like block falling off. Making everyone completely relearn how to run a rotation is absolutely messed up. Every person I know who has read this has stated if it goes into affect they will be quitting. Making people waste years of our lives playing just to completely destroy a game and focus on changing everything is wrong. I feel like devoting my time to what I once considered a great game with a few bugs has been completely wasted.

Here is my feedback. Stop killing the game by making such drastic changes every few months. This is an absolutely unnecessary change. Do you know you have a maelstrom arena? What's the purpose of that staff?

Why 78 percent? What's the thought process behind it? I would really like to know more about that.

Why remove resource gain "completely" from heavy attacks? What brainwave was behind that? At this time I'm interested in knowing the reason behind these nonsensical changes more than how stupid they are.

Your reasoning of apm and lowering skill ceiling are unsatisfactory.

colossalvoids wrote: »

So devs are actually wasting their and OUR time, resources and our money for this abomination of a "improvement"? It was fun years until it lasted, gg zos and good luck.

youd think they would be putting time and thought into things like...
like.....like..

like literally all the feedback they get in the forums daily saying x is wrong, this needs fixing, or x is cool thanks do more of x.