PTS Combat Test - Discussion Thread

p00tx

These changes are not going to suddenly make bad players into good players, and the people who aren't currently capable of handling a basic rotation are not suddenly going to be welcomed into end game teams pushing end game content. I think people have a very unrealistic expectation about what this is going to mean. If you can't handle doing a big boy rotation on a static dummy without any mechanics happening, there is no way you're going to be able to do any sort of useful rotation in actual raid, and you're still going to be bad. Lowering the skill ceiling does not create more space at the top. If anything, it's going to make people less willing to be welcoming, since there will no longer be a measurable means of determining who is the more capable player (the ones who are capable of "pushing buttons the fastest"...the whole point of a video game), now that dps will [potentially] become more standardized across the board.

I'll wait until I can test this myself before freaking out, but right now, I don't think this is a viable or useful solution to anything. It's an odd change that only placates players who aren't capable of clearing the more difficult content, with or without high dps.

stpdmonkey

Let's also mention how such a game changing thing should be open for everyone to test not just pc

siddique

Put godslayer, gryphon heart and IR in the crownstore. Be done with it. Casuals will pay you good dollar, and you can stop ruining the combat for people who actually spend time trying to perfect the damn system.

Major_Lag

danthemann5 wrote: »

It makes sense for heavy attacks to do more damage from a risk versus reward standpoint. However, changing a core mechanic so drastically throws the entire game off balance.

Awesome! Now we can heavy attack it for +70% damage and resource return! Oh, wait...

But seriously now:
Although I like part of the underlying reasoning behind this change (currently on Live, heavy attacks hit for less damage but restore resources... lolwut??? logic?????), but from reading the patch notes it looks like it will leave many (all?) existing HA builds in a very bad spot.

For example, the "meta" 1 bar vMA petsorc training wheels build (not bashing it BTW, it's a great tanky build for soloing a lot of group content).
This heavily relies on lightning staff HA for resource return and dealing damage, and also the trifocus passive to make the resulting damage an AoE (now nerfed into the ground on PTS).
So, it looks like such builds will be left with:
- no sustain
- no damage
- no AoE capability
...uhh, OK???

I normally don't bother testing "proposed" changes on PTS, because they always go Live regardless - but this is so big that I'll do some testing tomorrow, if only to satisfy my own curiosity.

xWarbrain

This is embarrassing. Changing core functions of a game 6 years later to appease people who'd be perfedtly happy with a new purple sparkly unicorn to collect instead.

The Elder Scrolls used to attract people that liked to put more thought and time into the game. Multiplayer enhanced that at first. Its sad to see it being changed into easy mode for everyone.

Please scrap this entire idea. Stop changing how things work fundamentally and just SLIGHTLY adjust what's already in the game so all classes are viable. After performance is increased dramatically.

If you think changing stuff like this is going to appeal to us then you are definitely not on the same page as your core long-term clients.

Cirantille

How is the restoration staff abilities will be effected?

When you heavy attack it gives huge resources back and gives major mending???

And you need lots of resources and recovery on a healer.

While getting resources back with light attack is nice, this is not dps, major mending + resource back keep the job done quick enough so you can go back to healing in short time of period.

Are we going to get mending from LA as well?

Why do you cripple us?

...

happyhughes2001

Why do we have so many big changes so frequently?

Imo you can’t optimise/improve a game when the fundamentals are changed so drastically so often.

I think this is a huge backwards step. Going to really slow combat down.

snoozy

SosRuvaak wrote: »

snoozy wrote: »

so you killed werewolves entirely huh

and just now that i had farmed molag kena

they HATE

let me say that again...

they H A T E werewolves.

check the werewolf feedback thread, count how many replies since the last patch that people have complained its lacking healing or is too focused on DoT. zenimax doesnt care, they make the face of their DLC a wolf and tarnish the werewolf class more and more.

this game is becoming more and more a shadow of what zenimax used to be good at.


and idk what this molag kena change is for, its absolutely redundant and truly out of the blue.

who wants less damage and more resources... thats SOO backwards..... you use LESS resources the more damage your abilities do. If the enemy is dead, you dont have to use as many resources plain and simple. more damage, takes out more HP. of course theres a blance, but what is this change to molag kena going to do but make people stop using the set.

theres soo much evidence that zenimax doesnt know their own game.
i dont believe they play the game the same as everyone, they have their streams... but they cant even think the same as a regular player. its impossible. i experienced this as a server owner for minecraft, i couldn't experience the server the same as a player. thats why theres beta testing phases.
they truly dont understand their player base, these changes are just further proof.
soo unprofessional, i wouldn't hire any of zenimax employees under my company.

i'm sad to agree. ZOS go out of their way to annoy werewolf players

ZOS_Volpe

Greetings,

There have been a few more inappropriate and bashing comments that had to be removed from this discussion. Please remember to remain civil and constructive when giving feedback.

diegoe0626

THINK ABOUT VMA/VBRP/AND VDSA SCORE PUSHES. STOP. RUINING. CONTENT.

tului78

God this looks fabulous.

MudcrabAttack

"High APM play is still rewarded as the absolute highest DPS and requires a mix of both Light and Heavy attacks"

I think they're forgetting about something.

Now everyone is gaining the equivalent of around 200ish in-combat Regen as the default of running the highest DPS. That is a solid net increase in Regen for everyone. Orcs are already the meta race, and High elf to an extent. If skills still cost the same and races still have all the same buffs, you won't need to run Bosmer/Redguard/Breton at all in PVE.

HEBREWHAMMERRR

DreadDaedroth wrote: »

No please. This change will push many players out the game plus it doesn't even make any sense on its own. Why are you making everything slower? Changing sets like Molag Kena?

This was ridiculous, they make kena set viable again for a patch after like 3 years on the shelf. Then they do some stuff like this?! Lmao

actosh

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Gilliam

First off i wanna say that these changes will slow cpmbat down and wont make bad (untrained players) better at the game.
Weaving will still be a requirement and u kill the game for the Endgameguilds.
Light attack dmg should see a nerf dmg wise, but the system that u presented here wont do any good to the game.

Best State for ESO combatwise was 1T (performance especially).

I say scrap almost everything of this testpatch.

There are things that u should keep however.

The no movementpenalty for Resto for example.
The streamlining of HA duration accross weapon types.

I´m always up for new ideas, but what i personally and maybe some of the com wanted to see is PERFORMANCE fixes.
However u gonna do that is up to u, lower calculations, get better servers, i dunno. Cant comment on technical aspects.

What i wish is that these "off cycle" tests keep continuing.

ANother thing, wanna beat every content in game, well get better!

So ZOS keep hard stuff hard, and dont try to please someone that casts 2 skills a minute.

Universe

snoozy wrote: »

HEAVY ATTACKS ARE SLOW, BORING AND NOT FUN AT ALL PLS DON'T GO THROUGH WITH THIS

Then do medium attacks!
Medium attack = not fully charged heavy attack.
You can also combine attacks... There is no need to do just 1 type of attack.

It is one more thing ZOS is trying to fix...diversity.
Now it is only boring light attack + ability like 99% of the time.

reybrujoangmar

Absolutely horrible changes.

I wish this is just a bad joke.

Plz, ZOS, don't turn the game meta into crappy heavy attack rotations.

Flaminir

Changes aside... we have all complained that when big changes suddenly appear in main patch notes that they are a fait acompli and asked for more consultation on bigger changes...

Well... they are consulting us on the bigger changes now!

More time to test and make suggestions.

A new approach.

A clear message that they may get changed and may not even go live at all.

I don't recall ever having seen that message before.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating as they say... but there is enough in this change of approach to a major change like this to at least give them an opportunity to see how this process pans out and how they listen, and what changes they make.

They have listened on the approach... now lets see if they listen on the changes themselves.

HEBREWHAMMERRR

colossalvoids wrote: »

So devs are actually wasting their and OUR time, resources and our money for this abomination of a "improvement"? It was fun years until it lasted, gg zos and good luck.

Yep, day one player and I can’t tolerate this watered down combat after they already murdered class identity. Just like when they nerfed my shields, I went to blackout for a year. Warzone dropped at the perfect time. This better not go live.

Banana

The math people will arrive at some stage to tell us all the answers.

FakeFox

ZOS_TrishM wrote: »

Greetings,

There have been a few more inappropriate and bashing comments that had to be removed from this discussion. Please remember to remain civil and constructive when giving feedback.

Sure my meme was inappropriate and bashing. Whatever. You know what is also inappropriate and has to do with bashing? Bashweaving does more DPS then light attacks with those changes.

actosh

If i want boring combat i play some other mmo out there. Always loved eso´s fast paced rewarding combat.

Regarding the recent block and animation changes:

They failed, u will die even if u see whats coming with a 0.5 sec animation time.
Dont dying in pvp against an opponent relies on knowing the enemy class, the basic burst combos and stuff like that.

If u wanna help bad players, give them vids about stuff like that. Dumbing down combat sys wont help ***.

Sorry to say it this hard, but thats the truth.

diegoe0626

new meta= quit eso

reybrujoangmar

xWarbrain wrote: »

This is embarrassing. Changing core functions of a game 6 years later to appease people who'd be perfedtly happy with a new purple sparkly unicorn to collect instead.

The Elder Scrolls used to attract people that liked to put more thought and time into the game. Multiplayer enhanced that at first. Its sad to see it being changed into easy mode for everyone.

Please scrap this entire idea. Stop changing how things work fundamentally and just SLIGHTLY adjust what's already in the game so all classes are viable. After performance is increased dramatically.

If you think changing stuff like this is going to appeal to us then you are definitely not on the same page as your core long-term clients.

Agree with all.

JanTanhide

Just got off the PTS. I don't like these proposed changes at all. I'm sick of these drastic changes in the game over and over and over.

Can't you just leave the game alone and fix what is broken instead? Come on ZOS. Get a grip and stop ruining the game. You are going to push out the rest of us long term subbing players with ridiculous changes like this.

RusevCrush

Please don't dumb down your game for casuals. They'll come and go and be the first ones to bail because of performance issues. Don't lose the rest of us who've been here through it all.

Btw this change will only widen the gap. Casuals want to press a button or two over and over again.

Drdeath20

Soo less potential dps but more sustain.

People will hit dummies not as hard but in any actual pve setting it wont make much of a difference.

Dakkx

The proposed changes are ***.

pma_pacifier

Dogzey wrote: »

This seems an attempt to dodge dealing with the issue that cp has brought. This is the only mmo where I like the combat and how practice gets rewarded, it’s just going to turn into pressing keys without light attacking and still hitting close to somebody who is actually good at the game. Terrible move

I don't find satisfaction having to climb to cp 810. Please remove cp too.

YandereGirlfriend

First thing is first: I HATE Heavy Attacks with furious passion and will outright leave the game before I ever incorporate them into a DPS rotation.

That said, if, as others have suggested, they take the "stolen" damage from Light Attacks and give it back to abilities, then I don't have a huge problem with these changes. Having additional sustain is always appreciated and it will make using blue bistat food more viable on races not named 'Breton.'

If, on the other hand, ZOS decides that "Wow, now players have all this new sustain from using Light Attacks... let's increase ability costs by X% in order to compensate" then this mechanics change will be a titanic failure.

Ishtharo

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

First thing is first: I HATE Heavy Attacks with furious passion and will outright leave the game before I ever incorporate them into a DPS rotation.

That said, if, as others have suggested, they take the "stolen" damage from Light Attacks and give it back to abilities, then I don't have a huge problem with these changes. Having additional sustain is always appreciated and it will make using blue bistat food more viable on races not named 'Breton.'

If, on the other hand, ZOS decides that "Wow, now players have all this new sustain from using Light Attacks... let's increase ability costs by X% in order to compensate" then this mechanics change will be a titanic failure.

It's not hard to see that this is where they will head.