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Prevent the reign of terror we're about to experience
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pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »Here, people like to use numbers when building arguments in their own direction, but sometimes they exaggerate and downplay them. You understand this is not quite true very big health and very big WD. Most likely in the end you sacrifice something.
The Stamcro set lacks Major Fracture, so it relies on Defile to create pressure, just as Stamcro lacks minor brutality as in the case of Stam DK. I want to add that necro's passive abilities are not related to increasing damage. My opinion is that it's a good start to use Defile as a class identity. Maybe in the future, developers will be able to come up with new types of debuff thanks to this push, which they can implement in other classes.
Major defile has nothing to do with class identity and comparing major defile with major fracture or minor brutality is just absurd
Hmmm. Necromancer. Corpses. Pestilences. Disease damage. Boneyards. Skeletal pets.
Defile fits right in.
Maybe Necro should be The Defile Class, and other classes should have it removed. lol.
Maybe, but not have it by default for normally using their burst abilities. If it was attached on a different ability that you put on ur bar for that specific reason essentially making a choice to drop something so u can have a powerful debuff like defile and use it in combat for that specific purpose of defiling ur targets and not have it by default for normally using ur burst combo then u would have a point.
2 -
WreckfulAbandon✭✭✭✭✭
✭What makes Stamcro crazy strong mainly comes down to 2 things imo:
1) They have a Shalks-like combo skill (not like curse/PoTL which can be purged) with high tooltip and MAJOR DEFILE. After ZOS made a point of scrubbing Major Defile from almost every viable skill in the game (and ruining a few of them in the process)
2) They have a purge that costs less than 2k health that removes 4 effects. This is incredibly strong when you have multiple class HoT's up all of the time.
I don't think one class should have a purge on demand (Warden only purges single effect) and a combo skill with no purge counterplay. Especially if that skill is gonna have defile. You gonna kill a Necro with DoTs? Not even if they were buffed. Burst combo? Necros are not only extremely tanky but they can also deliver a bigger combo than you with Major Defile.
Combo skill with limited counterplay + Major Defile and Purge (basically free) are the 2 factors that put Stamcros over the top imo.
PC NA
All my comments are regarding PvP4 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭Freakin_Hytte wrote: »We need major defile, this will be a counter to the current tank meta, healing is too strong atm. This will help fix that. I say more defile to the people
You're beginning to see the bigger picture. This thread is another nerf thread.
It's a Nerf thread because it puts a band-aid on a wound that needs surtures.
Defile exists to stifle mitigation through over healing, people arent tanky as they are overloaded.
The better solution is to separate healing from Weapon and Spell damage. Add tertiary stats and finally have that champ tree done right.
Non ground AoEs need to be dodgable.
These Nerf threads are pointless.Edited by TheBonesXXX on February 5, 2020 5:07PM1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »Freakin_Hytte wrote: »We need major defile, this will be a counter to the current tank meta, healing is too strong atm. This will help fix that. I say more defile to the people
You're beginning to see the bigger picture. This thread is another nerf thread.
It's a Nerf thread because it puts a band-aid on a wound that needs surtures.
Defile exists to stifle mitigation through over healing, people arent tanky as they are overloaded.
The better solution is to separate healing from Weapon and Spell damage. Add tertiary stats and finally have that champ tree done right.
Non ground AoEs need to be dodgable.
These Nerf threads are pointless.
Defile doesnt care if you are healing or overhealing. It still mitigates healing in general. This by definition means that its more effective on targets who are not actually overhealing aka not the tanks and less effective on targets who are overhealing aka the tanks simply because they have an abundance of heals and taking some of their healing isnt going to punish them as much as someone who isnt overhealing and therefore actually need all the healing they have. We've already been there and that is the exact effect it had.
If your monthly wage is 10 million dollars and i cut that by 30% u are still making millions. If your monthly wage is 1k dollars and i cut that by 30% you suddenly cant even afford ur rent and u are going to feel every penny i took from you.
Talking about band aid fixes while defending defiles as a solution to tank meta is the definition of irony cause defiles are exactly that. A band aid fix to tanking which was already proven before numerous times with defile itself and similar mechanics.
Sorry but you are not knowledgable enough to see the bigger picture.6 -
Daemonai✭✭✭✭It's funny because Necro isn't even getting buffed, just a bugfix.
Necro has consistently been voted the worst class in PvE/PvP. When ZOS tries to fix (not even buff) the class, suddenly its the tankiest, most healing-est, hardest hitting class in the game? Make it make sense.
Despite Blastbones being unreliable, it still goes off the majority of the time on live. So we already have a PVP environment in which Blastbones + Major Defile exist and it hasn't even budged the healing/tank meta or led to a necropocalypse.
-Edited by Daemonai on February 5, 2020 7:50PM0 -
Freakin_Hytte✭✭✭✭✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »Freakin_Hytte wrote: »We need major defile, this will be a counter to the current tank meta, healing is too strong atm. This will help fix that. I say more defile to the people
You're beginning to see the bigger picture. This thread is another nerf thread.
It's a Nerf thread because it puts a band-aid on a wound that needs surtures.
Defile exists to stifle mitigation through over healing, people arent tanky as they are overloaded.
The better solution is to separate healing from Weapon and Spell damage. Add tertiary stats and finally have that champ tree done right.
Non ground AoEs need to be dodgable.
These Nerf threads are pointless.
I agree, I wish they had separated healing from weapon/spell damage ages ago. Unfortunately I think it's too late or too much work for zos to actually want to do it.TheBonesXXX wrote: »Freakin_Hytte wrote: »We need major defile, this will be a counter to the current tank meta, healing is too strong atm. This will help fix that. I say more defile to the people
You're beginning to see the bigger picture. This thread is another nerf thread.
It's a Nerf thread because it puts a band-aid on a wound that needs surtures.
Defile exists to stifle mitigation through over healing, people arent tanky as they are overloaded.
The better solution is to separate healing from Weapon and Spell damage. Add tertiary stats and finally have that champ tree done right.
Non ground AoEs need to be dodgable.
These Nerf threads are pointless.
Defile doesnt care if you are healing or overhealing. It still mitigates healing in general. This by definition means that its more effective on targets who are not actually overhealing aka not the tanks and less effective on targets who are overhealing aka the tanks simply because they have an abundance of heals and taking some of their healing isnt going to punish them as much as someone who isnt overhealing and therefore actually need all the healing they have. We've already been there and that is the exact effect it had.
If your monthly wage is 10 million dollars and i cut that by 30% u are still making millions. If your monthly wage is 1k dollars and i cut that by 30% you suddenly cant even afford ur rent and u are going to feel every penny i took from you.
Talking about band aid fixes while defending defiles as a solution to tank meta is the definition of irony cause defiles are exactly that. A band aid fix to tanking which was already proven before numerous times with defile itself and similar mechanics.
Sorry but you are not knowledgable enough to see the bigger picture.
A problem we are having right now is that healing is way to strong as well, I shouldn't be able to go from 20% health to 100% using vigour one time and let's be honest, barely any good players use heavy, this current Meta is all about stacking mitigation and use strong hots. And the people in heavy shouldn't be able to run high resistance builds with 6k weapon damage builds which makes your heals go through the roof. There is no sacrifice anymore, me in medium shouldn't feel as tanky as I did in heavy, I should be more squishy and tanky players in heavy shouldn't be able to stqck 6k weapon damage, if they want to be tanky they should sacrifice their damage.
There is no sacrifice for either types of builds with today's meta and its just so god damn boring to play this current patch.Edited by Freakin_Hytte on February 5, 2020 8:11PM1 -
BohnT2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It's funny because Necro isn't even getting buffed, just a bugfix.
Necro has consistently been voted the worst class in PvE/PvP. When ZOS tries to fix (not even buff) the class, suddenly its the tankiest, most healing-est, hardest hitting class in the game? Make it make sense.
Despite Blastbones being unreliable, it still goes off the majority of the time on live. So we already have a PVP environment in which Blastbones + Major Defile exist and it hasn't even budged the healing/tank meta or led to a necropocalypse.
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This post has to be based on bias or lack of better knowledge.
From day one necro has been the most tanky class in the game for various reasons but especially magnecro always lacked killing power and way too many people just took too long to figure out how broken stamnecro is.
Also blastbones are extremely unreliable and even if they hit they almost always take their whole duration to do so which already limits the major defile uptime by a lot.
1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Freakin_Hytte wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »Freakin_Hytte wrote: »We need major defile, this will be a counter to the current tank meta, healing is too strong atm. This will help fix that. I say more defile to the people
You're beginning to see the bigger picture. This thread is another nerf thread.
It's a Nerf thread because it puts a band-aid on a wound that needs surtures.
Defile exists to stifle mitigation through over healing, people arent tanky as they are overloaded.
The better solution is to separate healing from Weapon and Spell damage. Add tertiary stats and finally have that champ tree done right.
Non ground AoEs need to be dodgable.
These Nerf threads are pointless.
I agree, I wish they had separated healing from weapon/spell damage ages ago. Unfortunately I think it's too late or too much work for zos to actually want to do it.TheBonesXXX wrote: »Freakin_Hytte wrote: »We need major defile, this will be a counter to the current tank meta, healing is too strong atm. This will help fix that. I say more defile to the people
You're beginning to see the bigger picture. This thread is another nerf thread.
It's a Nerf thread because it puts a band-aid on a wound that needs surtures.
Defile exists to stifle mitigation through over healing, people arent tanky as they are overloaded.
The better solution is to separate healing from Weapon and Spell damage. Add tertiary stats and finally have that champ tree done right.
Non ground AoEs need to be dodgable.
These Nerf threads are pointless.
Defile doesnt care if you are healing or overhealing. It still mitigates healing in general. This by definition means that its more effective on targets who are not actually overhealing aka not the tanks and less effective on targets who are overhealing aka the tanks simply because they have an abundance of heals and taking some of their healing isnt going to punish them as much as someone who isnt overhealing and therefore actually need all the healing they have. We've already been there and that is the exact effect it had.
If your monthly wage is 10 million dollars and i cut that by 30% u are still making millions. If your monthly wage is 1k dollars and i cut that by 30% you suddenly cant even afford ur rent and u are going to feel every penny i took from you.
Talking about band aid fixes while defending defiles as a solution to tank meta is the definition of irony cause defiles are exactly that. A band aid fix to tanking which was already proven before numerous times with defile itself and similar mechanics.
Sorry but you are not knowledgable enough to see the bigger picture.
A problem we are having right now is that healing is way to strong as well, I shouldn't be able to go from 20% health to 100% using vigour one time and let's be honest, barely any good players use heavy, this current Meta is all about stacking mitigation and use strong hots. And the people in heavy shouldn't be able to run high resistance builds with 6k weapon damage builds which makes your heals go through the roof. There is no sacrifice anymore, me in medium shouldn't feel as tanky as I did in heavy, I should be more squishy and tanky players in heavy shouldn't be able to stqck 6k weapon damage, if they want to be tanky they should sacrifice their damage.
There is no sacrifice for either types of builds with today's meta and its just so god damn boring to play this current patch.
And major defile will do absolutely nothing to prevent that. That's the point. It will push however more people to those builds with extreme healing so they can survive defiles. Good job, u fixed nothing and made things worse.2 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »Freakin_Hytte wrote: »We need major defile, this will be a counter to the current tank meta, healing is too strong atm. This will help fix that. I say more defile to the people
You're beginning to see the bigger picture. This thread is another nerf thread.
It's a Nerf thread because it puts a band-aid on a wound that needs surtures.
Defile exists to stifle mitigation through over healing, people arent tanky as they are overloaded.
The better solution is to separate healing from Weapon and Spell damage. Add tertiary stats and finally have that champ tree done right.
Non ground AoEs need to be dodgable.
These Nerf threads are pointless.
Defile doesnt care if you are healing or overhealing. It still mitigates healing in general. This by definition means that its more effective on targets who are not actually overhealing aka not the tanks and less effective on targets who are overhealing aka the tanks simply because they have an abundance of heals and taking some of their healing isnt going to punish them as much as someone who isnt overhealing and therefore actually need all the healing they have. We've already been there and that is the exact effect it had.
If your monthly wage is 10 million dollars and i cut that by 30% u are still making millions. If your monthly wage is 1k dollars and i cut that by 30% you suddenly cant even afford ur rent and u are going to feel every penny i took from you.
Talking about band aid fixes while defending defiles as a solution to tank meta is the definition of irony cause defiles are exactly that. A band aid fix to tanking which was already proven before numerous times with defile itself and similar mechanics.
Sorry but you are not knowledgable enough to see the bigger picture.
A millionaire isn't going to put up with a 30% paycut, you should meet a few before you come off with a terrible analogy.
Maybe I'm not being thorough but it's clear you're the one not understanding.
If someone takes damage for 5.5k and they heal for 7k, that 30% defile prevents over healing. Everytime.
It's meant to reduce top end healing so you can actually kill someone.
I have more time played in MMOs than anyone here supporting a pointless nerf.
But by all means, try to control the pointless nerf.
1 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »Freakin_Hytte wrote: »We need major defile, this will be a counter to the current tank meta, healing is too strong atm. This will help fix that. I say more defile to the people
You're beginning to see the bigger picture. This thread is another nerf thread.
It's a Nerf thread because it puts a band-aid on a wound that needs surtures.
Defile exists to stifle mitigation through over healing, people arent tanky as they are overloaded.
The better solution is to separate healing from Weapon and Spell damage. Add tertiary stats and finally have that champ tree done right.
Non ground AoEs need to be dodgable.
These Nerf threads are pointless.
Defile doesnt care if you are healing or overhealing. It still mitigates healing in general. This by definition means that its more effective on targets who are not actually overhealing aka not the tanks and less effective on targets who are overhealing aka the tanks simply because they have an abundance of heals and taking some of their healing isnt going to punish them as much as someone who isnt overhealing and therefore actually need all the healing they have. We've already been there and that is the exact effect it had.
If your monthly wage is 10 million dollars and i cut that by 30% u are still making millions. If your monthly wage is 1k dollars and i cut that by 30% you suddenly cant even afford ur rent and u are going to feel every penny i took from you.
Talking about band aid fixes while defending defiles as a solution to tank meta is the definition of irony cause defiles are exactly that. A band aid fix to tanking which was already proven before numerous times with defile itself and similar mechanics.
Sorry but you are not knowledgable enough to see the bigger picture.
A millionaire isn't going to put up with a 30% paycut, you should meet a few before you come off with a terrible analogy.
Maybe I'm not being thorough but it's clear you're the one not understanding.
If someone takes damage for 5.5k and they heal for 7k, that 30% defile prevents over healing. Everytime.
It's meant to reduce top end healing so you can actually kill someone.
I have more time played in MMOs than anyone here supporting a pointless nerf.
But by all means, try to control the pointless nerf.
You use skewed logic and as a stamcro your opinion is heavily biased. You reduce my healing? I build for more healing to compensate = even harder for all the rest who has no access to major defile. You assume people wont adapt to new meta, but they will. Another thing you can't see is that you will face those defiles to, due to the fact stamcros will be everywhere, you will build more tanky on your own because of that, just wait.
TBH nothing will change eventhough this is imbalanced as hell, its not the ZOS way. When it goes to making adjustments and balance changes this is the worst and most lazy company I have ever seen. Maybe, just maybe this will get adressed in next patch, but I wouldn't bet on it.
ZOS have completly destroyed NBs, magcros and magdks while overbuffing templars, stamdens and stamcros. They get into this madness even further with each patch. Sometimes I miss Eric Wrobel...Say no to Toxic Casuals!
I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.
"Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge0 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »Freakin_Hytte wrote: »We need major defile, this will be a counter to the current tank meta, healing is too strong atm. This will help fix that. I say more defile to the people
You're beginning to see the bigger picture. This thread is another nerf thread.
It's a Nerf thread because it puts a band-aid on a wound that needs surtures.
Defile exists to stifle mitigation through over healing, people arent tanky as they are overloaded.
The better solution is to separate healing from Weapon and Spell damage. Add tertiary stats and finally have that champ tree done right.
Non ground AoEs need to be dodgable.
These Nerf threads are pointless.
Defile doesnt care if you are healing or overhealing. It still mitigates healing in general. This by definition means that its more effective on targets who are not actually overhealing aka not the tanks and less effective on targets who are overhealing aka the tanks simply because they have an abundance of heals and taking some of their healing isnt going to punish them as much as someone who isnt overhealing and therefore actually need all the healing they have. We've already been there and that is the exact effect it had.
If your monthly wage is 10 million dollars and i cut that by 30% u are still making millions. If your monthly wage is 1k dollars and i cut that by 30% you suddenly cant even afford ur rent and u are going to feel every penny i took from you.
Talking about band aid fixes while defending defiles as a solution to tank meta is the definition of irony cause defiles are exactly that. A band aid fix to tanking which was already proven before numerous times with defile itself and similar mechanics.
Sorry but you are not knowledgable enough to see the bigger picture.
A millionaire isn't going to put up with a 30% paycut, you should meet a few before you come off with a terrible analogy.
Maybe I'm not being thorough but it's clear you're the one not understanding.
If someone takes damage for 5.5k and they heal for 7k, that 30% defile prevents over healing. Everytime.
It's meant to reduce top end healing so you can actually kill someone.
I have more time played in MMOs than anyone here supporting a pointless nerf.
But by all means, try to control the pointless nerf.
You use skewed logic and as a stamcro your opinion is heavily biased. You reduce my healing? I build for more healing to compensate = even harder for all the rest who has no access to major defile. You assume people wont adapt to new meta, but they will. Another thing you can't see is that you will face those defiles to, due to the fact stamcros will be everywhere, you will build more tanky on your own because of that, just wait.
TBH nothing will change eventhough this is imbalanced as hell, its not the ZOS way. When it goes to making adjustments and balance changes this is the worst and most lazy company I have ever seen. Maybe, just maybe this will get adressed in next patch, but I wouldn't bet on it.
ZOS have completly destroyed NBs, magcros and magdks while overbuffing templars, stamdens and stamcros. They get into this madness even further with each patch. Sometimes I miss Eric Wrobel...
I run full major and minor defile at 60% reduced healing. That's not the point.
None of you addressed the real problem, being able to run 40k health, max resistances, and 8k damage is the problem.
That's the base algorithms and champ tree, these nerf threads solve nothing.
Players should be chosing damage or healing, penetration or resistance value, resources pools or resource regeneration, Crit damage or impen. You can't have everything, it's an overloaded stat meta.
Stamina has been over buffed for years, Necro has nothing to do with it.
A proper tank absorbs punishment and offers support through CC, dps characters hitting the resistance cap is a problem that's being going on for a long time.
I've been pking longer than 98% of anyone on this forum, I have more experience and awareness than anyone here.
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Freakin_Hytte✭✭✭✭✭Freakin_Hytte wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »Freakin_Hytte wrote: »We need major defile, this will be a counter to the current tank meta, healing is too strong atm. This will help fix that. I say more defile to the people
You're beginning to see the bigger picture. This thread is another nerf thread.
It's a Nerf thread because it puts a band-aid on a wound that needs surtures.
Defile exists to stifle mitigation through over healing, people arent tanky as they are overloaded.
The better solution is to separate healing from Weapon and Spell damage. Add tertiary stats and finally have that champ tree done right.
Non ground AoEs need to be dodgable.
These Nerf threads are pointless.
I agree, I wish they had separated healing from weapon/spell damage ages ago. Unfortunately I think it's too late or too much work for zos to actually want to do it.TheBonesXXX wrote: »Freakin_Hytte wrote: »We need major defile, this will be a counter to the current tank meta, healing is too strong atm. This will help fix that. I say more defile to the people
You're beginning to see the bigger picture. This thread is another nerf thread.
It's a Nerf thread because it puts a band-aid on a wound that needs surtures.
Defile exists to stifle mitigation through over healing, people arent tanky as they are overloaded.
The better solution is to separate healing from Weapon and Spell damage. Add tertiary stats and finally have that champ tree done right.
Non ground AoEs need to be dodgable.
These Nerf threads are pointless.
Defile doesnt care if you are healing or overhealing. It still mitigates healing in general. This by definition means that its more effective on targets who are not actually overhealing aka not the tanks and less effective on targets who are overhealing aka the tanks simply because they have an abundance of heals and taking some of their healing isnt going to punish them as much as someone who isnt overhealing and therefore actually need all the healing they have. We've already been there and that is the exact effect it had.
If your monthly wage is 10 million dollars and i cut that by 30% u are still making millions. If your monthly wage is 1k dollars and i cut that by 30% you suddenly cant even afford ur rent and u are going to feel every penny i took from you.
Talking about band aid fixes while defending defiles as a solution to tank meta is the definition of irony cause defiles are exactly that. A band aid fix to tanking which was already proven before numerous times with defile itself and similar mechanics.
Sorry but you are not knowledgable enough to see the bigger picture.
A problem we are having right now is that healing is way to strong as well, I shouldn't be able to go from 20% health to 100% using vigour one time and let's be honest, barely any good players use heavy, this current Meta is all about stacking mitigation and use strong hots. And the people in heavy shouldn't be able to run high resistance builds with 6k weapon damage builds which makes your heals go through the roof. There is no sacrifice anymore, me in medium shouldn't feel as tanky as I did in heavy, I should be more squishy and tanky players in heavy shouldn't be able to stqck 6k weapon damage, if they want to be tanky they should sacrifice their damage.
There is no sacrifice for either types of builds with today's meta and its just so god damn boring to play this current patch.
And major defile will do absolutely nothing to prevent that. That's the point. It will push however more people to those builds with extreme healing so they can survive defiles. Good job, u fixed nothing and made things worse.
Let's just do nothing then like you suggest and remove defile so we can continue with this meta
good job, you fixed absolutely nothing as well 👍 Edited by Freakin_Hytte on February 5, 2020 11:12PM0 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭Freakin_Hytte wrote: »Freakin_Hytte wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »Freakin_Hytte wrote: »We need major defile, this will be a counter to the current tank meta, healing is too strong atm. This will help fix that. I say more defile to the people
You're beginning to see the bigger picture. This thread is another nerf thread.
It's a Nerf thread because it puts a band-aid on a wound that needs surtures.
Defile exists to stifle mitigation through over healing, people arent tanky as they are overloaded.
The better solution is to separate healing from Weapon and Spell damage. Add tertiary stats and finally have that champ tree done right.
Non ground AoEs need to be dodgable.
These Nerf threads are pointless.
I agree, I wish they had separated healing from weapon/spell damage ages ago. Unfortunately I think it's too late or too much work for zos to actually want to do it.TheBonesXXX wrote: »Freakin_Hytte wrote: »We need major defile, this will be a counter to the current tank meta, healing is too strong atm. This will help fix that. I say more defile to the people
You're beginning to see the bigger picture. This thread is another nerf thread.
It's a Nerf thread because it puts a band-aid on a wound that needs surtures.
Defile exists to stifle mitigation through over healing, people arent tanky as they are overloaded.
The better solution is to separate healing from Weapon and Spell damage. Add tertiary stats and finally have that champ tree done right.
Non ground AoEs need to be dodgable.
These Nerf threads are pointless.
Defile doesnt care if you are healing or overhealing. It still mitigates healing in general. This by definition means that its more effective on targets who are not actually overhealing aka not the tanks and less effective on targets who are overhealing aka the tanks simply because they have an abundance of heals and taking some of their healing isnt going to punish them as much as someone who isnt overhealing and therefore actually need all the healing they have. We've already been there and that is the exact effect it had.
If your monthly wage is 10 million dollars and i cut that by 30% u are still making millions. If your monthly wage is 1k dollars and i cut that by 30% you suddenly cant even afford ur rent and u are going to feel every penny i took from you.
Talking about band aid fixes while defending defiles as a solution to tank meta is the definition of irony cause defiles are exactly that. A band aid fix to tanking which was already proven before numerous times with defile itself and similar mechanics.
Sorry but you are not knowledgable enough to see the bigger picture.
A problem we are having right now is that healing is way to strong as well, I shouldn't be able to go from 20% health to 100% using vigour one time and let's be honest, barely any good players use heavy, this current Meta is all about stacking mitigation and use strong hots. And the people in heavy shouldn't be able to run high resistance builds with 6k weapon damage builds which makes your heals go through the roof. There is no sacrifice anymore, me in medium shouldn't feel as tanky as I did in heavy, I should be more squishy and tanky players in heavy shouldn't be able to stqck 6k weapon damage, if they want to be tanky they should sacrifice their damage.
There is no sacrifice for either types of builds with today's meta and its just so god damn boring to play this current patch.
And major defile will do absolutely nothing to prevent that. That's the point. It will push however more people to those builds with extreme healing so they can survive defiles. Good job, u fixed nothing and made things worse.
Let's just do nothing then like you suggest and remove defile so we can continue with this meta good job, you fixed absolutely nothing as well 👍
If they fixed the core design this meta would never exist, it's amazing what you can learn by observation.
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Freakin_Hytte✭✭✭✭✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »Freakin_Hytte wrote: »Freakin_Hytte wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »Freakin_Hytte wrote: »We need major defile, this will be a counter to the current tank meta, healing is too strong atm. This will help fix that. I say more defile to the people
You're beginning to see the bigger picture. This thread is another nerf thread.
It's a Nerf thread because it puts a band-aid on a wound that needs surtures.
Defile exists to stifle mitigation through over healing, people arent tanky as they are overloaded.
The better solution is to separate healing from Weapon and Spell damage. Add tertiary stats and finally have that champ tree done right.
Non ground AoEs need to be dodgable.
These Nerf threads are pointless.
I agree, I wish they had separated healing from weapon/spell damage ages ago. Unfortunately I think it's too late or too much work for zos to actually want to do it.TheBonesXXX wrote: »Freakin_Hytte wrote: »We need major defile, this will be a counter to the current tank meta, healing is too strong atm. This will help fix that. I say more defile to the people
You're beginning to see the bigger picture. This thread is another nerf thread.
It's a Nerf thread because it puts a band-aid on a wound that needs surtures.
Defile exists to stifle mitigation through over healing, people arent tanky as they are overloaded.
The better solution is to separate healing from Weapon and Spell damage. Add tertiary stats and finally have that champ tree done right.
Non ground AoEs need to be dodgable.
These Nerf threads are pointless.
Defile doesnt care if you are healing or overhealing. It still mitigates healing in general. This by definition means that its more effective on targets who are not actually overhealing aka not the tanks and less effective on targets who are overhealing aka the tanks simply because they have an abundance of heals and taking some of their healing isnt going to punish them as much as someone who isnt overhealing and therefore actually need all the healing they have. We've already been there and that is the exact effect it had.
If your monthly wage is 10 million dollars and i cut that by 30% u are still making millions. If your monthly wage is 1k dollars and i cut that by 30% you suddenly cant even afford ur rent and u are going to feel every penny i took from you.
Talking about band aid fixes while defending defiles as a solution to tank meta is the definition of irony cause defiles are exactly that. A band aid fix to tanking which was already proven before numerous times with defile itself and similar mechanics.
Sorry but you are not knowledgable enough to see the bigger picture.
A problem we are having right now is that healing is way to strong as well, I shouldn't be able to go from 20% health to 100% using vigour one time and let's be honest, barely any good players use heavy, this current Meta is all about stacking mitigation and use strong hots. And the people in heavy shouldn't be able to run high resistance builds with 6k weapon damage builds which makes your heals go through the roof. There is no sacrifice anymore, me in medium shouldn't feel as tanky as I did in heavy, I should be more squishy and tanky players in heavy shouldn't be able to stqck 6k weapon damage, if they want to be tanky they should sacrifice their damage.
There is no sacrifice for either types of builds with today's meta and its just so god damn boring to play this current patch.
And major defile will do absolutely nothing to prevent that. That's the point. It will push however more people to those builds with extreme healing so they can survive defiles. Good job, u fixed nothing and made things worse.
Let's just do nothing then like you suggest and remove defile so we can continue with this meta good job, you fixed absolutely nothing as well 👍
If they fixed the core design this meta would never exist, it's amazing what you can learn by observation.
And you honestly believe they will do that? How cute, I wish I was that naive.
I stated the same thing in an earlier post, it's amazing what you can learn by looking what people have actually written 👍 0 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »Freakin_Hytte wrote: »We need major defile, this will be a counter to the current tank meta, healing is too strong atm. This will help fix that. I say more defile to the people
You're beginning to see the bigger picture. This thread is another nerf thread.
It's a Nerf thread because it puts a band-aid on a wound that needs surtures.
Defile exists to stifle mitigation through over healing, people arent tanky as they are overloaded.
The better solution is to separate healing from Weapon and Spell damage. Add tertiary stats and finally have that champ tree done right.
Non ground AoEs need to be dodgable.
These Nerf threads are pointless.
If you've played through the bleed meta, you would know that defile acts identical to bleeds. Bleeds used to ignore resistances to counter players that stack high resist, but ironically, those who did not stack high resists were the most affected by that mechanic. Similarly, defile is used to counter high healing players, but ironically it is the most effective versus players with normal healing.
If you want to fix the problem of tanky players, then actually lower the values of healing skills, lower the HP multiplier granted by CP and Battle Spirit, not introduce counters because all they do is hurt the players that aren't meant to be countered.Edited by StaticWave on February 6, 2020 12:25AM5 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭StaticWave wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »Freakin_Hytte wrote: »We need major defile, this will be a counter to the current tank meta, healing is too strong atm. This will help fix that. I say more defile to the people
You're beginning to see the bigger picture. This thread is another nerf thread.
It's a Nerf thread because it puts a band-aid on a wound that needs surtures.
Defile exists to stifle mitigation through over healing, people arent tanky as they are overloaded.
The better solution is to separate healing from Weapon and Spell damage. Add tertiary stats and finally have that champ tree done right.
Non ground AoEs need to be dodgable.
These Nerf threads are pointless.
If you've played through the bleed meta, you would know that defile acts identical to bleeds. Bleeds used to ignore resistances to counter players that stack high resist, but ironically, those who did not stack high resists were the most affected by that mechanic. Similarly, defile is used to counter high healing players, but ironically it is the most effective versus players with normal healing.
If you want to fix the problem of tanky players, then actually lower the values of healing skills, lower the HP multiplier granted by CP and Battle Spirit, not introduce counters because all they do is hurt the players that aren't meant to be countered.
I've played through every meta, as ESO still has beta problems.0 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭Freakin_Hytte wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »Freakin_Hytte wrote: »Freakin_Hytte wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »Freakin_Hytte wrote: »We need major defile, this will be a counter to the current tank meta, healing is too strong atm. This will help fix that. I say more defile to the people
You're beginning to see the bigger picture. This thread is another nerf thread.
It's a Nerf thread because it puts a band-aid on a wound that needs surtures.
Defile exists to stifle mitigation through over healing, people arent tanky as they are overloaded.
The better solution is to separate healing from Weapon and Spell damage. Add tertiary stats and finally have that champ tree done right.
Non ground AoEs need to be dodgable.
These Nerf threads are pointless.
I agree, I wish they had separated healing from weapon/spell damage ages ago. Unfortunately I think it's too late or too much work for zos to actually want to do it.TheBonesXXX wrote: »Freakin_Hytte wrote: »We need major defile, this will be a counter to the current tank meta, healing is too strong atm. This will help fix that. I say more defile to the people
You're beginning to see the bigger picture. This thread is another nerf thread.
It's a Nerf thread because it puts a band-aid on a wound that needs surtures.
Defile exists to stifle mitigation through over healing, people arent tanky as they are overloaded.
The better solution is to separate healing from Weapon and Spell damage. Add tertiary stats and finally have that champ tree done right.
Non ground AoEs need to be dodgable.
These Nerf threads are pointless.
Defile doesnt care if you are healing or overhealing. It still mitigates healing in general. This by definition means that its more effective on targets who are not actually overhealing aka not the tanks and less effective on targets who are overhealing aka the tanks simply because they have an abundance of heals and taking some of their healing isnt going to punish them as much as someone who isnt overhealing and therefore actually need all the healing they have. We've already been there and that is the exact effect it had.
If your monthly wage is 10 million dollars and i cut that by 30% u are still making millions. If your monthly wage is 1k dollars and i cut that by 30% you suddenly cant even afford ur rent and u are going to feel every penny i took from you.
Talking about band aid fixes while defending defiles as a solution to tank meta is the definition of irony cause defiles are exactly that. A band aid fix to tanking which was already proven before numerous times with defile itself and similar mechanics.
Sorry but you are not knowledgable enough to see the bigger picture.
A problem we are having right now is that healing is way to strong as well, I shouldn't be able to go from 20% health to 100% using vigour one time and let's be honest, barely any good players use heavy, this current Meta is all about stacking mitigation and use strong hots. And the people in heavy shouldn't be able to run high resistance builds with 6k weapon damage builds which makes your heals go through the roof. There is no sacrifice anymore, me in medium shouldn't feel as tanky as I did in heavy, I should be more squishy and tanky players in heavy shouldn't be able to stqck 6k weapon damage, if they want to be tanky they should sacrifice their damage.
There is no sacrifice for either types of builds with today's meta and its just so god damn boring to play this current patch.
And major defile will do absolutely nothing to prevent that. That's the point. It will push however more people to those builds with extreme healing so they can survive defiles. Good job, u fixed nothing and made things worse.
Let's just do nothing then like you suggest and remove defile so we can continue with this meta good job, you fixed absolutely nothing as well 👍
If they fixed the core design this meta would never exist, it's amazing what you can learn by observation.
And you honestly believe they will do that? How cute, I wish I was that naive.
I stated the same thing in an earlier post, it's amazing what you can learn by looking what people have actually written 👍
I have faith that everyone on this thread would use their intellect for something other than btching and whining like two year olds.
None of you are dumb, but I'd definitely say you have selfish motives that don't reflect wanting PvP in a better state.0 -
SenpaiNFT✭✭✭✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »Freakin_Hytte wrote: »We need major defile, this will be a counter to the current tank meta, healing is too strong atm. This will help fix that. I say more defile to the people
You're beginning to see the bigger picture. This thread is another nerf thread.
It's a Nerf thread because it puts a band-aid on a wound that needs surtures.
Defile exists to stifle mitigation through over healing, people arent tanky as they are overloaded.
The better solution is to separate healing from Weapon and Spell damage. Add tertiary stats and finally have that champ tree done right.
Non ground AoEs need to be dodgable.
These Nerf threads are pointless.
Defile doesnt care if you are healing or overhealing. It still mitigates healing in general. This by definition means that its more effective on targets who are not actually overhealing aka not the tanks and less effective on targets who are overhealing aka the tanks simply because they have an abundance of heals and taking some of their healing isnt going to punish them as much as someone who isnt overhealing and therefore actually need all the healing they have. We've already been there and that is the exact effect it had.
If your monthly wage is 10 million dollars and i cut that by 30% u are still making millions. If your monthly wage is 1k dollars and i cut that by 30% you suddenly cant even afford ur rent and u are going to feel every penny i took from you.
Talking about band aid fixes while defending defiles as a solution to tank meta is the definition of irony cause defiles are exactly that. A band aid fix to tanking which was already proven before numerous times with defile itself and similar mechanics.
Sorry but you are not knowledgable enough to see the bigger picture.
A millionaire isn't going to put up with a 30% paycut, you should meet a few before you come off with a terrible analogy.
Maybe I'm not being thorough but it's clear you're the one not understanding.
If someone takes damage for 5.5k and they heal for 7k, that 30% defile prevents over healing. Everytime.
It's meant to reduce top end healing so you can actually kill someone.
I have more time played in MMOs than anyone here supporting a pointless nerf.
But by all means, try to control the pointless nerf.
You use skewed logic and as a stamcro your opinion is heavily biased. You reduce my healing? I build for more healing to compensate = even harder for all the rest who has no access to major defile. You assume people wont adapt to new meta, but they will. Another thing you can't see is that you will face those defiles to, due to the fact stamcros will be everywhere, you will build more tanky on your own because of that, just wait.
TBH nothing will change eventhough this is imbalanced as hell, its not the ZOS way. When it goes to making adjustments and balance changes this is the worst and most lazy company I have ever seen. Maybe, just maybe this will get adressed in next patch, but I wouldn't bet on it.
ZOS have completly destroyed NBs, magcros and magdks while overbuffing templars, stamdens and stamcros. They get into this madness even further with each patch. Sometimes I miss Eric Wrobel...
I run full major and minor defile at 60% reduced healing. That's not the point.
None of you addressed the real problem, being able to run 40k health, max resistances, and 8k damage is the problem.
That's the base algorithms and champ tree, these nerf threads solve nothing.
Players should be chosing damage or healing, penetration or resistance value, resources pools or resource regeneration, Crit damage or impen. You can't have everything, it's an overloaded stat meta.
Stamina has been over buffed for years, Necro has nothing to do with it.
A proper tank absorbs punishment and offers support through CC, dps characters hitting the resistance cap is a problem that's being going on for a long time.
I've been pking longer than 98% of anyone on this forum, I have more experience and awareness than anyone here.
Let’s be honest here.
You either Zerg, Zerg Surf, Gank, or all of the above. Likely the latter.
All of which are classifications of a subpar player.
No good player believes for a second that you have more experience and awareness then anybody who’s even mildly decent at the game. Time played =\= skill level. The fact you tried to use that as justification points towards your skill level in itself.
If I had to sum it all up; i know for a fact you’re not better than myself, @BohnT and @Derra , and just from how they’re commenting I doubt you’re better than either @Mayrael or @pieratsos , and I’m sure we’d all gladly prove such on PTS if you’d like.
You’re the equivalent of what I use when I go to the restroom.Edited by SenpaiNFT on February 6, 2020 1:46AM1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »Freakin_Hytte wrote: »We need major defile, this will be a counter to the current tank meta, healing is too strong atm. This will help fix that. I say more defile to the people
You're beginning to see the bigger picture. This thread is another nerf thread.
It's a Nerf thread because it puts a band-aid on a wound that needs surtures.
Defile exists to stifle mitigation through over healing, people arent tanky as they are overloaded.
The better solution is to separate healing from Weapon and Spell damage. Add tertiary stats and finally have that champ tree done right.
Non ground AoEs need to be dodgable.
These Nerf threads are pointless.
Defile doesnt care if you are healing or overhealing. It still mitigates healing in general. This by definition means that its more effective on targets who are not actually overhealing aka not the tanks and less effective on targets who are overhealing aka the tanks simply because they have an abundance of heals and taking some of their healing isnt going to punish them as much as someone who isnt overhealing and therefore actually need all the healing they have. We've already been there and that is the exact effect it had.
If your monthly wage is 10 million dollars and i cut that by 30% u are still making millions. If your monthly wage is 1k dollars and i cut that by 30% you suddenly cant even afford ur rent and u are going to feel every penny i took from you.
Talking about band aid fixes while defending defiles as a solution to tank meta is the definition of irony cause defiles are exactly that. A band aid fix to tanking which was already proven before numerous times with defile itself and similar mechanics.
Sorry but you are not knowledgable enough to see the bigger picture.
A millionaire isn't going to put up with a 30% paycut, you should meet a few before you come off with a terrible analogy.
Maybe I'm not being thorough but it's clear you're the one not understanding.
If someone takes damage for 5.5k and they heal for 7k, that 30% defile prevents over healing. Everytime.
It's meant to reduce top end healing so you can actually kill someone.
I have more time played in MMOs than anyone here supporting a pointless nerf.
But by all means, try to control the pointless nerf.
What a failure. The point isn't whether he is going to put up with the paycut genius but the effect it will have. The point is also not about the millionaire but the one who isn't making millions which u conveniently ignore every single time. And you conveniently ignore that because it doesnt suit ur argument.
The analogy is perfect to get an idea of the effect. That was the point of the analogy in the first place. Talking about whether someone is going to put up with the paycut to invalidate that is the definition of a strawman argument. So yeah there is that.
You can have a million years of experience at MMOs. If you don't understand some simple things then u don't understand them. And you don't.
And the biggest irony of all is that we have already been there. We already tried ur defile meta. And it had that exact effect. Which also u conveniently ignore. But by all means keep parroting ur nonsense that defile will solve the tank meta and that its hard and skilled to pressure people by having defile attached on ur burst ability. If that's ur standard about what is hard or skilled then no wonder you don't have a clue about what ur talking about.Edited by pieratsos on February 6, 2020 4:14AM0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Freakin_Hytte wrote: »Freakin_Hytte wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »Freakin_Hytte wrote: »We need major defile, this will be a counter to the current tank meta, healing is too strong atm. This will help fix that. I say more defile to the people
You're beginning to see the bigger picture. This thread is another nerf thread.
It's a Nerf thread because it puts a band-aid on a wound that needs surtures.
Defile exists to stifle mitigation through over healing, people arent tanky as they are overloaded.
The better solution is to separate healing from Weapon and Spell damage. Add tertiary stats and finally have that champ tree done right.
Non ground AoEs need to be dodgable.
These Nerf threads are pointless.
I agree, I wish they had separated healing from weapon/spell damage ages ago. Unfortunately I think it's too late or too much work for zos to actually want to do it.TheBonesXXX wrote: »Freakin_Hytte wrote: »We need major defile, this will be a counter to the current tank meta, healing is too strong atm. This will help fix that. I say more defile to the people
You're beginning to see the bigger picture. This thread is another nerf thread.
It's a Nerf thread because it puts a band-aid on a wound that needs surtures.
Defile exists to stifle mitigation through over healing, people arent tanky as they are overloaded.
The better solution is to separate healing from Weapon and Spell damage. Add tertiary stats and finally have that champ tree done right.
Non ground AoEs need to be dodgable.
These Nerf threads are pointless.
Defile doesnt care if you are healing or overhealing. It still mitigates healing in general. This by definition means that its more effective on targets who are not actually overhealing aka not the tanks and less effective on targets who are overhealing aka the tanks simply because they have an abundance of heals and taking some of their healing isnt going to punish them as much as someone who isnt overhealing and therefore actually need all the healing they have. We've already been there and that is the exact effect it had.
If your monthly wage is 10 million dollars and i cut that by 30% u are still making millions. If your monthly wage is 1k dollars and i cut that by 30% you suddenly cant even afford ur rent and u are going to feel every penny i took from you.
Talking about band aid fixes while defending defiles as a solution to tank meta is the definition of irony cause defiles are exactly that. A band aid fix to tanking which was already proven before numerous times with defile itself and similar mechanics.
Sorry but you are not knowledgable enough to see the bigger picture.
A problem we are having right now is that healing is way to strong as well, I shouldn't be able to go from 20% health to 100% using vigour one time and let's be honest, barely any good players use heavy, this current Meta is all about stacking mitigation and use strong hots. And the people in heavy shouldn't be able to run high resistance builds with 6k weapon damage builds which makes your heals go through the roof. There is no sacrifice anymore, me in medium shouldn't feel as tanky as I did in heavy, I should be more squishy and tanky players in heavy shouldn't be able to stqck 6k weapon damage, if they want to be tanky they should sacrifice their damage.
There is no sacrifice for either types of builds with today's meta and its just so god damn boring to play this current patch.
And major defile will do absolutely nothing to prevent that. That's the point. It will push however more people to those builds with extreme healing so they can survive defiles. Good job, u fixed nothing and made things worse.
Let's just do nothing then like you suggest and remove defile so we can continue with this meta good job, you fixed absolutely nothing as well 👍
I never said do nothing. Please read before posting and making a fool of urself. Got it?2 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »Freakin_Hytte wrote: »We need major defile, this will be a counter to the current tank meta, healing is too strong atm. This will help fix that. I say more defile to the people
You're beginning to see the bigger picture. This thread is another nerf thread.
It's a Nerf thread because it puts a band-aid on a wound that needs surtures.
Defile exists to stifle mitigation through over healing, people arent tanky as they are overloaded.
The better solution is to separate healing from Weapon and Spell damage. Add tertiary stats and finally have that champ tree done right.
Non ground AoEs need to be dodgable.
These Nerf threads are pointless.
If you've played through the bleed meta, you would know that defile acts identical to bleeds. Bleeds used to ignore resistances to counter players that stack high resist, but ironically, those who did not stack high resists were the most affected by that mechanic. Similarly, defile is used to counter high healing players, but ironically it is the most effective versus players with normal healing.
If you want to fix the problem of tanky players, then actually lower the values of healing skills, lower the HP multiplier granted by CP and Battle Spirit, not introduce counters because all they do is hurt the players that aren't meant to be countered.
I've played through every meta, as ESO still has beta problems.
And once again avoiding to address the actual point of the argument. It's almost like a trend.Edited by pieratsos on February 6, 2020 4:24AM2 -
Moonsorrow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I do not always agree with @BohnT2 , but when i do agree i fully agree.
I am glad that they are repairing BB functionality so that it actually works more often. So please ZOS, whatever you decide to do/nerf.. please keep it working like it works now (as it actually WORKS).
BUT on current pvp realities we live in, the AOE Major Defile reliably on an AOE heavy hitting skills would be problematic and would cause people to build even more tanky and/or would just increase the amounts of Magicka Templars even more that are the "countering" force so to say against Necros.
So there would be two kings of the hill and others below them in the meta: tanky magplars and bursty Defiler Necros.
What comes to group play though, things would be "okay", but on a "solo" player scene, you would choose between those 2 classes most likely if wanted to be max efficient at next patch for ownage. Well, Msorc would still streak around like a boss, that Defile would not make Twilight heal trash, it would still be good. Them sorcs.. *Boomhauer dangmayne dang streaking killstealing spagettios..* (not wanting to nerf to sorcs though, i love them haha)
So what to do with the Major Defile on it? Maybe put some condition on it, like "If target is already affected by the Poisoned Status Effect, then BB would affect them with the Major Defile only. So.. it would make you do some choices on builds, and/or work with someone who puts Poisoned effects on enemies. Or use Charged Weapon with Poison Enchant, or use the Venom Skull and thus taking out other bursty choices away from your bars/setup.
Just an idea. So would not just be an automatic "free" Major Defile. Or if lazy, just change it to a 3 seconds Minor Defile instead. In name of fairness though, same should be then done to Templars Dark Flare.
IMO If one is to be nerfed, then both should be so Dark Flare should be looked into also. Templar should not be THE healer, cleanser, burster AND Defiler all in one. Or other classes need as strong tool kits also then.
But yes, in general i agree with OP this time, but if BB is nerfed for the Defile, in all fairness Dark Flare should be too.
edit: Dark Flare skill does not actually even fit Templar thematically. That skills should be a Magick Necro skill OR give something good for Magicka Nightblade and give it to us *kitten eyes* and change animation into an actual Dark & Bloody red projectile, a bit similar like the Hemoglobin orbs. Would be awesome for Magblades to have some cool toy too for once, and not always be the kid who watches siblings to open cool xmas gifts and the only gift Magblade gets is beating from the stepdad.
Edited by Moonsorrow on February 6, 2020 7:40AM2 -
Freakin_Hytte✭✭✭✭✭Freakin_Hytte wrote: »Freakin_Hytte wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »Freakin_Hytte wrote: »We need major defile, this will be a counter to the current tank meta, healing is too strong atm. This will help fix that. I say more defile to the people
You're beginning to see the bigger picture. This thread is another nerf thread.
It's a Nerf thread because it puts a band-aid on a wound that needs surtures.
Defile exists to stifle mitigation through over healing, people arent tanky as they are overloaded.
The better solution is to separate healing from Weapon and Spell damage. Add tertiary stats and finally have that champ tree done right.
Non ground AoEs need to be dodgable.
These Nerf threads are pointless.
I agree, I wish they had separated healing from weapon/spell damage ages ago. Unfortunately I think it's too late or too much work for zos to actually want to do it.TheBonesXXX wrote: »Freakin_Hytte wrote: »We need major defile, this will be a counter to the current tank meta, healing is too strong atm. This will help fix that. I say more defile to the people
You're beginning to see the bigger picture. This thread is another nerf thread.
It's a Nerf thread because it puts a band-aid on a wound that needs surtures.
Defile exists to stifle mitigation through over healing, people arent tanky as they are overloaded.
The better solution is to separate healing from Weapon and Spell damage. Add tertiary stats and finally have that champ tree done right.
Non ground AoEs need to be dodgable.
These Nerf threads are pointless.
Defile doesnt care if you are healing or overhealing. It still mitigates healing in general. This by definition means that its more effective on targets who are not actually overhealing aka not the tanks and less effective on targets who are overhealing aka the tanks simply because they have an abundance of heals and taking some of their healing isnt going to punish them as much as someone who isnt overhealing and therefore actually need all the healing they have. We've already been there and that is the exact effect it had.
If your monthly wage is 10 million dollars and i cut that by 30% u are still making millions. If your monthly wage is 1k dollars and i cut that by 30% you suddenly cant even afford ur rent and u are going to feel every penny i took from you.
Talking about band aid fixes while defending defiles as a solution to tank meta is the definition of irony cause defiles are exactly that. A band aid fix to tanking which was already proven before numerous times with defile itself and similar mechanics.
Sorry but you are not knowledgable enough to see the bigger picture.
A problem we are having right now is that healing is way to strong as well, I shouldn't be able to go from 20% health to 100% using vigour one time and let's be honest, barely any good players use heavy, this current Meta is all about stacking mitigation and use strong hots. And the people in heavy shouldn't be able to run high resistance builds with 6k weapon damage builds which makes your heals go through the roof. There is no sacrifice anymore, me in medium shouldn't feel as tanky as I did in heavy, I should be more squishy and tanky players in heavy shouldn't be able to stqck 6k weapon damage, if they want to be tanky they should sacrifice their damage.
There is no sacrifice for either types of builds with today's meta and its just so god damn boring to play this current patch.
And major defile will do absolutely nothing to prevent that. That's the point. It will push however more people to those builds with extreme healing so they can survive defiles. Good job, u fixed nothing and made things worse.
Let's just do nothing then like you suggest and remove defile so we can continue with this meta good job, you fixed absolutely nothing as well 👍
I never said do nothing. Please read before posting and making a fool of urself. Got it?
Lol OKEdited by Freakin_Hytte on February 6, 2020 7:43AM0 -
IAVITNI✭✭✭✭✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »Freakin_Hytte wrote: »We need major defile, this will be a counter to the current tank meta, healing is too strong atm. This will help fix that. I say more defile to the people
You're beginning to see the bigger picture. This thread is another nerf thread.
It's a Nerf thread because it puts a band-aid on a wound that needs surtures.
Defile exists to stifle mitigation through over healing, people arent tanky as they are overloaded.
The better solution is to separate healing from Weapon and Spell damage. Add tertiary stats and finally have that champ tree done right.
Non ground AoEs need to be dodgable.
These Nerf threads are pointless.
Actually defile in its current iteration exists as a bandaid solution to bad game design and lack of resources to actually address the real problem (easy accessibility to heal and overhealing) .
In fact, in a defile meta you actually see more tanks because healing becomes obsolete. All a defile meta does is push people into tank/healing builds because those are the only builds that survive.
If heals are vulnerable to Defile, in order to survive you either have to build to increase effective health to increase the individual value of every 1 point of health (tank meta) or increase your heals to counter-act the healing defile (healing meta).
The current state of the game is a direct result of introducing an excessive Defile meta (100% uptime from duroks/reverb and over Defile thanks to Befoul CP tree) that was an attempt to address overhealing. What ZoS did was introduce one extreme to counteract another but all that really did was hurt all the builds in between (non-tanks/non-heals). Then, in order to address that they nerfed Defile but the underlying issue of overhealing still remains except now people realized how easy it is to build tanks (potential health pools are not much higher than before, the masses just learned how from a yt video) so we are left with a healing/tank meta.
Again, all the issues we are seeing now already existed in the Defile meta. Defile isn't the answer, it's just another symptom of bad game design that should rightfully be removed from the 100% accessibility buff/debuff pool. Having the effect on EXTREMELY low uptime abilities is ok like pollens and Soul Harvest (give Incap Major Defile back OR stun, sincerely a magsorc main). But no class should have 100% access to the most potent debuff in PvP.1 -
This is all of course fun to read theories crafting, but opinion and the sexual organ are one part of the same whole, the only difference is that we do not shake the organ on the street. So whether you like it or not, as long as Stamcro has a bad kit for its own buffs/debuffs, I don't think devs will remove Defile. If they delete Defile everyone will just use Magcro because Stamcro will not be able to offer anything with its poor set.
P. S. For the comment above I for example think that Streak is the most powerful ability in the game but...Edited by OrderoftheDarkness on February 6, 2020 8:11AM0 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I love how every single person defending defile on blastbones ignores the fact that its totally imbalanced, because it gives unfair advantage to only one spec thus it solves nothing like someone said "in the bigger picture", it just creates more disturbance. We need universal solutions, not cheese skills avaibale to only one spec, period
Blastbones simply don't match ZOS policy about skills standards because of which almost all remaining specs (except of templars and wardens) were severly nerfed. Level of inconsitency of ZOS in this matter is simply disgusting.Say no to Toxic Casuals!
I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.
"Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge1 -
BohnT2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »This is all of course fun to read theories crafting, but opinion and the sexual organ are one part of the same whole, the only difference is that we do not shake the organ on the street. So whether you like it or not, as long as Stamcro has a bad kit for its own buffs/debuffs, I don't think devs will remove Defile. If they delete Defile everyone will just use Magcro because Stamcro will not be able to offer anything with its poor set.
P. S. For the comment above I for example think that Streak is the most powerful ability in the game but...
Would you please stop putting up one strawman after the other just to derail the post with
"But sorcs have streak"
"Stamnecro is dead otherwise"
"Everyone will play Magnecro"
Make another post if you want to talk about those things but stop trying to defend your main by pointing at others without providing any constructive argument as to why major defile is healthy for the game1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Freakin_Hytte wrote: »Freakin_Hytte wrote: »Freakin_Hytte wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »Freakin_Hytte wrote: »We need major defile, this will be a counter to the current tank meta, healing is too strong atm. This will help fix that. I say more defile to the people
You're beginning to see the bigger picture. This thread is another nerf thread.
It's a Nerf thread because it puts a band-aid on a wound that needs surtures.
Defile exists to stifle mitigation through over healing, people arent tanky as they are overloaded.
The better solution is to separate healing from Weapon and Spell damage. Add tertiary stats and finally have that champ tree done right.
Non ground AoEs need to be dodgable.
These Nerf threads are pointless.
I agree, I wish they had separated healing from weapon/spell damage ages ago. Unfortunately I think it's too late or too much work for zos to actually want to do it.TheBonesXXX wrote: »Freakin_Hytte wrote: »We need major defile, this will be a counter to the current tank meta, healing is too strong atm. This will help fix that. I say more defile to the people
You're beginning to see the bigger picture. This thread is another nerf thread.
It's a Nerf thread because it puts a band-aid on a wound that needs surtures.
Defile exists to stifle mitigation through over healing, people arent tanky as they are overloaded.
The better solution is to separate healing from Weapon and Spell damage. Add tertiary stats and finally have that champ tree done right.
Non ground AoEs need to be dodgable.
These Nerf threads are pointless.
Defile doesnt care if you are healing or overhealing. It still mitigates healing in general. This by definition means that its more effective on targets who are not actually overhealing aka not the tanks and less effective on targets who are overhealing aka the tanks simply because they have an abundance of heals and taking some of their healing isnt going to punish them as much as someone who isnt overhealing and therefore actually need all the healing they have. We've already been there and that is the exact effect it had.
If your monthly wage is 10 million dollars and i cut that by 30% u are still making millions. If your monthly wage is 1k dollars and i cut that by 30% you suddenly cant even afford ur rent and u are going to feel every penny i took from you.
Talking about band aid fixes while defending defiles as a solution to tank meta is the definition of irony cause defiles are exactly that. A band aid fix to tanking which was already proven before numerous times with defile itself and similar mechanics.
Sorry but you are not knowledgable enough to see the bigger picture.
A problem we are having right now is that healing is way to strong as well, I shouldn't be able to go from 20% health to 100% using vigour one time and let's be honest, barely any good players use heavy, this current Meta is all about stacking mitigation and use strong hots. And the people in heavy shouldn't be able to run high resistance builds with 6k weapon damage builds which makes your heals go through the roof. There is no sacrifice anymore, me in medium shouldn't feel as tanky as I did in heavy, I should be more squishy and tanky players in heavy shouldn't be able to stqck 6k weapon damage, if they want to be tanky they should sacrifice their damage.
There is no sacrifice for either types of builds with today's meta and its just so god damn boring to play this current patch.
And major defile will do absolutely nothing to prevent that. That's the point. It will push however more people to those builds with extreme healing so they can survive defiles. Good job, u fixed nothing and made things worse.
Let's just do nothing then like you suggest and remove defile so we can continue with this meta good job, you fixed absolutely nothing as well 👍
I never said do nothing. Please read before posting and making a fool of urself. Got it?
Lol OK
Indeed lol.0 -
OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »This is all of course fun to read theories crafting, but opinion and the sexual organ are one part of the same whole, the only difference is that we do not shake the organ on the street. So whether you like it or not, as long as Stamcro has a bad kit for its own buffs/debuffs, I don't think devs will remove Defile. If they delete Defile everyone will just use Magcro because Stamcro will not be able to offer anything with its poor set.
P. S. For the comment above I for example think that Streak is the most powerful ability in the game but...
Would you please stop putting up one strawman after the other just to derail the post with
"But sorcs have streak"
"Stamnecro is dead otherwise"
"Everyone will play Magnecro"
Make another post if you want to talk about those things but stop trying to defend your main by pointing at others without providing any constructive argument as to why major defile is healthy for the game
What can be a constructive argument with you if you pull out of context only what you need. Again, I have already given constructive arguments about the entire kit of Stamcro's own buffs/debuffs. This kit is very poor.Edited by OrderoftheDarkness on February 6, 2020 10:24AM0 -
BohnT2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »This is all of course fun to read theories crafting, but opinion and the sexual organ are one part of the same whole, the only difference is that we do not shake the organ on the street. So whether you like it or not, as long as Stamcro has a bad kit for its own buffs/debuffs, I don't think devs will remove Defile. If they delete Defile everyone will just use Magcro because Stamcro will not be able to offer anything with its poor set.
P. S. For the comment above I for example think that Streak is the most powerful ability in the game but...
Would you please stop putting up one strawman after the other just to derail the post with
"But sorcs have streak"
"Stamnecro is dead otherwise"
"Everyone will play Magnecro"
Make another post if you want to talk about those things but stop trying to defend your main by pointing at others without providing any constructive argument as to why major defile is healthy for the game
What can be a constructive argument with you if you pull out of context only what you need. Again, I have already given constructive arguments about the entire kit of Stamcro's own buffs/debuffs. This kit is very poor.
Well i can't help you to find arguments for your standpoint but maybe there are none if it's so hard for you to come up with one.
And if you bring up wrong arguments, or ones that fall apart in any reasonable pvp situation or just strawman arguments pointing at another unbalanced ability you simply failed to bring anything to the discussion.1
This discussion has been closed.