Joy_Division wrote: »The reason why blastbones has been terrible the past year is because people insisted it needed to be nerfed before it hit Live. Here we are one year later, and just when ZoS tries to make it worthwhile, here people are again insisting it needs to be nerfed before it hits Live.
access to major defile has proofed to be completely unhealthy for the game
the “bad-players-shouldn’t-be-able-to-do-stuff” is my favorite argument
Stellarvorous wrote: »I have to ask are you actually worried blastbones might actually hit people now lol? yes you are correct if blastbones fix actually makes the skill worth using alot more necros will show up me included.
A lot of people have steered clear of playing their necros because of how crappy blastbones functions especially considering its a staple of the class.
There hasn't been hardly blastbones OP threads since necromancer released considering it has to do a song and a dance just to roll a d20 to see if its actually going to hit the person you cast it on between that its subject to any inc damage/CC if someone decides to kill it before it hits its mark.
Far as defile goes and your statement about tanks I have to ask if you even step into pvp atm im going to say PC NA for example because it is crawling with tanks atm this is elder scrolls online Not Eternal Pillow Fights Online because frankly there are too many folks running around taking 10+ people to down because they committed 100% to tanking.
Berserkers strike and all its morphs just took another 16% damage nerf via this PTS ontop of the continuous nerfs both onslaught and berserkers rage have taken since the release of elsweyr.
Granted when onslaught first got its rework it was very strong now it and berserkers rage are nearing the toilet bowl as the more nerfs they take the more likely everyone is gona start reslotting dawnbreaker again especially with vampire popularity.
Now keep the berserkers strike and its morphs nerf in mind cast times on ults the level of tanks we are currently dealing with in pvp atm especially PC NA and then evaluate your statement about major defile.
Between the cast times on ults the nerfs of dots the nerf damage on weapon skills/class skills the nerfs on ults like berserkers rage and onslaught and colossus ect ect yet again zos keeps nerfing the only ways to kill people in pvp short of zerging them down.
If this keeps up when you go to watch a stream of someone pvping all your gona see is either a zerg of 40+ people chasing down 1 guy or a couple of 12 year old girls having a sleep over pillow fight because "Aint no one dying to *** anymore"
The amount of tanks in pvp has *Increased* with the nerfs of damage from "All sources" and introduction of cast times on ults these folks playing tanks have less to worry about the more damage gets gutted which makes things like MAJOR DEFILE more precious and more classes need access to it.
They are going to play their tank specs no matter if we bring a lot of damage or no damage some folks just decided they don't want to die in pvp ever again that's their choice their playstyle w/e.
The rest of the player base that wants to actually see people die in pvp once in a while can come to an agreement "Stop nerfing the sources of damage and remove the *** cast times from ults"
I'm playing on EU, you really don't have to tell me what a Tank meta feels like.
Major defile or 100% penetration give you a lot of opportunity cost for no cost in your build.
People don't have to invest in offence or penetration making things obsolete and giving players the option to have the same (and more) offensive presence someone with 2 offensive sets has while they're playing in 2 defensive sets.
As i described above already major defile punishes squishy builds a lot more than tanks as tanks already have a much higher survivability as they take less damage and have sufficient heals.
Also the tank meta has been influenced far more by the increased health pools in conjunction with cast times as the increased HoTs (which are not an issue on their own) and the removal of almost any offensive CC rather than the removal of major defile.
PC EU had its fair share of major defile meta for 2 years till it got rightfully nerfed and it's safe to say that no one plays a squishy build anymore and any build that is not using major defile becomes obsolete.
With blastbones being the only skill that supports major defile with a decent uptime that can't be easily countered, we're heading into a meta of 1 spec and only 1 spec that will dominate the whole game.
I'm not complaining about blastbones being reliable, I've been complaining about them ever since they got clapped in the second elsweyr pts and I've been complaining about necros one dimensional offence in general.
But this complaint here is solely about major defile and how it'll negatively affect the meta till it gets removed.
WreckfulAbandon wrote: »OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »Change major defile to minor? Or guarantee poison status effect? Add a dot component?
Regardless. On demand aoe defile that is reliably procced is too strong. This is why reverb got nerfed and it was single target
Reverb got nerf because first of all it's thematically stupid to have a defile on a shield stun associated with disease-causing. Second, it's a lot to have defile + stun. Third, it was to highlight class identity.
P. S. I still find it funny to look at Magplar with defile. This is really very funny the warrior of light is associated with rot.
Before Reverb got nerfed I could run all kinds of creative builds on Magplar. Since that nerf it's basically run 3 dmg sets or get tanked by any semi-defensive build for longer than I care to.
I would honestly prefer 5 sec TTK to the 5 min TTK that we currently have
Major defile isnt unhealthy for the game, even at 100% uptime. What's unhealthy is befoul, which can make defile 45% and minor as high as 20 or 25%. Making 65% reduced healing compared to 45% it should be if they are stacked. The befoul cp is what kills it.
TheUndeadAmulet wrote: »the “bad-players-shouldn’t-be-able-to-do-stuff” is my favorite argument
Chunky coming in with a hot take.
But he does have a point. Bad players should be able to still play in and enjoy PvP. Of course, block heal spam shouldn't be the reason why bad players are able to succeed. I've yet to see a single solution that means both solo players aren't frustrated and bad players are able to suceed still.
Joy_Division wrote: »The reason why blastbones has been terrible the past year is because people insisted it needed to be nerfed before it hit Live. Here we are one year later, and just when ZoS tries to make it worthwhile, here people are again insisting it needs to be nerfed before it hits Live.
Joy_Division wrote: »The reason why blastbones has been terrible the past year is because people insisted it needed to be nerfed before it hit Live. Here we are one year later, and just when ZoS tries to make it worthwhile, here people are again insisting it needs to be nerfed before it hits Live.
Some people never learn.
juhislihis19 wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »The reason why blastbones has been terrible the past year is because people insisted it needed to be nerfed before it hit Live. Here we are one year later, and just when ZoS tries to make it worthwhile, here people are again insisting it needs to be nerfed before it hits Live.
Some people never learn.
What? Blastbones was ridiculously overpowered when they introduced it. I vividly remember a video of someone hitting 100k damage with Blastbones in PVE.
Anyone who plays Necro, knows this will be a future topic of nerfing.
With current changes going Live, I got all stam classes, so I will just roll on my Necro, no skin of my ass. But can't no one deny we didn't raise a concern beforehand.
Joy_Division wrote: »The reason why blastbones has been terrible the past year is because people insisted it needed to be nerfed before it hit Live. Here we are one year later, and just when ZoS tries to make it worthwhile, here people are again insisting it needs to be nerfed before it hits Live.
Give it a cast time like Dark Flare. Need counters for healing, since healing is out of control right now.
RealPhoenix wrote: »juhislihis19 wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »The reason why blastbones has been terrible the past year is because people insisted it needed to be nerfed before it hit Live. Here we are one year later, and just when ZoS tries to make it worthwhile, here people are again insisting it needs to be nerfed before it hits Live.
Some people never learn.
What? Blastbones was ridiculously overpowered when they introduced it. I vividly remember a video of someone hitting 100k damage with Blastbones in PVE.
Anyone who plays Necro, knows this will be a future topic of nerfing.
With current changes going Live, I got all stam classes, so I will just roll on my Necro, no skin of my ass. But can't no one deny we didn't raise a concern beforehand.
Necros are already used extensively in PvE. The damage didnt change. Why should this affect PvE in any way?
The only thing this will affect is PvP, and if you ask me, in a good way. Blastbones will be a strong skill if it works, sure - but this skill is a big part of the class identity of necro and it should be usable. Also, major defile is good, but other classes have access to other great stuff aswell - 12s major protection and perma major heroism anyone?
Warden created these problems... They are rewarded for maximum health.
I've been playing since 2014 and defiles aren't a way to solve any healing issues or people being too tanky especially when it's only available on one class that is already incredibly tanky.
Major defile won't even help you much as a solo player to burst through a 35k HP magplar and his buddies because you still won't get a clean kill and he'll just be healed again.
You on the other hand will feel the extra pressure a lot from major defile on any build and you'll be forced to either play stamnb which can't touch the magplars or the stamnecros and just cloak around or you have to build for more survivability at the cost of damage (or brp weapons they don't have lots of opportunity cost).
And then you'll start to realize how the pendulum has swung even more in favor of people with high health playing in groups as you had to give up more damage while they just got more pressure with the same healing and everything as before.
The issue in this patch isn't damage and it isn't healing or the absence of major defile.
The issue is easily achievable high health pools that increase the TTK just enough to be saved by hots and healbots due to casttimes and lack of offensive CCs giving everyone enough time to react to any damage spike in coming any lengthening the time of burst spikes which increases the chance the Hots keep ticking and prevent you from dying to the burst.
juhislihis19 wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »The reason why blastbones has been terrible the past year is because people insisted it needed to be nerfed before it hit Live. Here we are one year later, and just when ZoS tries to make it worthwhile, here people are again insisting it needs to be nerfed before it hits Live.
Some people never learn.
What? Blastbones was ridiculously overpowered when they introduced it. I vividly remember a video of someone hitting 100k damage with Blastbones in PVE.
Anyone who plays Necro, knows this will be a future topic of nerfing.
With current changes going Live, I got all stam classes, so I will just roll on my Necro, no skin of my ass. But can't no one deny we didn't raise a concern beforehand.
juhislihis19 wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »The reason why blastbones has been terrible the past year is because people insisted it needed to be nerfed before it hit Live. Here we are one year later, and just when ZoS tries to make it worthwhile, here people are again insisting it needs to be nerfed before it hits Live.
Some people never learn.
What? Blastbones was ridiculously overpowered when they introduced it. I vividly remember a video of someone hitting 100k damage with Blastbones in PVE.
Anyone who plays Necro, knows this will be a future topic of nerfing.
With current changes going Live, I got all stam classes, so I will just roll on my Necro, no skin of my ass. But can't no one deny we didn't raise a concern beforehand.
The issue is not with Blast Bones. The issue is stale tanking meta and insane amount of healing.
NordSwordnBoard wrote: »Just a few questions: Would increasing the cost lessen the 100% uptime issue?
Should it be more like Daedric curse, than a spammable/low cost?
What if the defile was delayed or was such that you remove defile from the previous target(s) by sending out blastbones on cooldown or too frequently?
I'm not sure if this is in response to me, and it's kinda weird coming from someone with the "you are underperforming" quote in their sig, but I retract the part of the argument about player skill, that was me getting frustrated with the fact that we're probably never leaving the Tank Meta because it's apparently what the player base wants. People would rather sit there holding block and playing "who can stack the most healbots on the flag" than risk dying I guess.Joy_Division wrote: »What's amusing is that the majority of people complaining that bad players shouldn't be able to do stuff don;t realize that they're bad players. If someone is constantly complaining that "over-performing" abilities and bad players with "crutches" are ruining they're 1vXs, I'm betting real money the core issue is user-error.
Speak for yourself. I had no problem dealing with Defiles back when they were meta. Now? Defiles have less potency, lower uptime, and fewer sources, while the opposite can be said about Vitality, Mending, and healing in general. Are you making these arguments based on no-CP or something? There's probably no point to these conversations until the CP overhaul...You on the other hand will feel the extra pressure a lot from major defile on any build and you'll be forced to either play stamnb which can't touch the magplars or the stamnecros and just cloak around or you have to build for more survivability at the cost of damage (or brp weapons they don't have lots of opportunity cost).
Speak for yourself. I had no problem dealing with Defiles back when they were meta. Now? Defiles have less potency, lower uptime, and fewer sources, while the opposite can be said about Vitality, Mending, and healing in general. Are you making these arguments based on no-CP or something? There's probably no point to these conversations until the CP overhaul...You on the other hand will feel the extra pressure a lot from major defile on any build and you'll be forced to either play stamnb which can't touch the magplars or the stamnecros and just cloak around or you have to build for more survivability at the cost of damage (or brp weapons they don't have lots of opportunity cost).
If you ever entered the salt desert you'd know how builds for the past years with major defile were and how they'll be again once major defile uptime goes through the roof again.
If you ever entered the salt desert you'd know how builds for the past years with major defile were and how they'll be again once major defile uptime goes through the roof again.
I stopped trying to play this game competitively a while ago, but I was most into competitive dueling and small scale during the Defile meta. The salt desert was my home. I learned how to abuse Defiles, and how to counter them. Remember when Reverb lasted 10 seconds? Having Major Defile on you 100% of the fight was often a given, so even on something like a DK you learned how to use every defensive technique available, not just block heal. Defiles were great against players who thought they could just face tank anything. They weren't that great against damage shield Mag builds, kite roll cloak Stam builds, or any Templar that knew how to do damage and not dumpster their whole Mag pool panic purging.
In the current CP PvP meta, 100% Major Defile uptime isn't even scary. So many players heal through Defiles like they don't even exist. Everyone has 10% healing done and received from CP, without the sacrifices that entailed back when the CP cap was much lower, while Befoul CP got nerfed. BRP Resto is everywhere. Lots of little things have added up, like the "Healing Done" gear bonus being doubled from 2% to 4%. You know what's scary? How easily a strong Stamcro player is going to land instagib combos with Blastbones and Colossus. The Defile doesn't matter either way if you get one shotted.