Story Mode Dungeons: Do we want them?

idk · January 2020

Other:

TheFM wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

You all know that ZOS extended the remove-from-instance timer because people couldn't even turn in their quests in time, right?
I think that's proof enough a solo mode is needed because more often than not, no one 's gonna wait for you for help you.
People who say "ask nicely", "most people let you", blah blah blah. I call BS.

And no one really has any real right to ask people to spend their time waiting on you. Story mode players want to take their time and explore. I'm not going to ask someone to twiddle their thumbs for a half hour while I have a good look at dungeons as vast as Depths of Malatar. Bet most of you don't even know there's a beach at the end.

I even know story players who wanted to read books in the proper context -- that is, when presented during a dungeon. And it has validity -- the devs put the book in the dungeon for a reason. For players who want to enjoy what the devs created -- SOLO MODE.

Tell you what, you can have a solo mode when we get a vet overland mode.

Ergo, never.

Something tells me the final decision on that is not up to either of us.

The big question is why are you so adamantly opposed to this?

I already presented real information that points out SWTOR's community of serious players who ran group content did not abandon the game due to the solo mode dungeons but that many of the top players left because of serious issues with the development and release of group content.

So with that out of the way what is the real reason to oppose something that does not harm you or the game in any significant manner?

Kiyakotari · January 2020

Other:

I voted "other" on this, but my actual vote is "yes, with specific caveat, and an explanation as to why my vote is such."

1) While there are a lot of "if you want to experience the story, just group up through group finder and do it" arguments, I've found that in many cases, that does not actually work. For example, I just ran a random dungeon. It was veteran, and I was with my partner. She was tanking, I was on heals. We ended up in Volenfell, and it turned out I hadn't done the quest yet on that character. I immediately said in party chat, "I have the quest." The two DPS proceeded to take off at maximum speed. My partner waited for me to grab the quest, then we rushed after to catch up. Despite me requesting several more times for the two DPS to slow down, so that I could interact with the quest giver (yes, I am aware this is not required in that dungeon - that is not the point), they continued to run on, ignoring both my partner and I, who were obviously not going as fast. I eventually told her to just go with them, and that I would be along when I was along. We completed the dungeon, and the two DPS dropped without ever saying a single thing in party. I got a full hand of achievements - hard mode, speed run, no death, first time completing the dungeon on that character in vet, etc. It's a good thing I wasn't trying to experience the story, isn't it?

2) Specifically because of situations like the one above, I do think that the option of a "story mode" for dungeons, trials, and other content that normally requires groups would be nice. However, since this option would be specifically people who want to (either solo, or in a group that is otherwise unable to complete the normal content) focus on and experience the story, I think that the "story mode" should have specific restrictions, as detailed below:
- There should be no drops available in the "story mode" versions of this content. None. I don't mean "no set gear" drops, I mean no drops. No gold, no consumables, no decon trash gear, no vendables. Nothing. This will prevent people from using "story mode" to farm loot from the content.
- There should be no XP given for any enemies defeated during the run, or for completing the content. This will prevent people from using "story mode" to farm XP or level characters.
- Completing the quest in "story mode" should not award a skill point, should not grant the normal quest reward (gold/loot/XP), and should not actually count as completing the quest. This would allow people to pick up the quest in a non "story mode" run and complete it as they normally would, with the usual rewards, while also preventing people from using "story mode" to farm skill points, XP, and loot from the "story mode" quests. It would also make it so that someone could run the "story mode" content and experience the story multiple times, whereas in the normal content, once a player has completed the quest and the story is no longer available, the dialogue in content (particularly dungeons) often changes, making it impossible to experience the story a second time without having another character to run it on.

Iccotak · January 2020

Yes. Although I don’t want a story mode, let people who want it have it.

@Kiyakotari

I think getting trash & junk from solo is fine - definitely NO sets
XP & Gold gain has to be minimal - as in it would clearly be faster to just do it on group mode
I agree with no skill point

Tigerseye · January 2020

YES. We want a story mode.

Yes, sort of, but from a personal perspective, it would be nice if it was a little bit of a (solo) challenge, at least.

Not impossible, but not a total walkover, either.

I guess that might defeat the purpose of it, though?

Either way, there should be some way of reading the story in peace, without feeling you are keeping people waiting.

Tigerseye · January 2020

YES. We want a story mode.

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

Ima get piers morgan on you now...

Oh noes, anything but that! :P

Tigerseye · January 2020

YES. We want a story mode.

zvavi wrote: »

Two main downsides.
1. More instances on the server side means more lag, rip PC EU.
2. Some players that came for the single player, have stayed for the multiplayer, if dungeons had story mode, those players wouldnt stay, and eso would lose customers.
3. Stop flooding the forums with the same thread.

I didn't do multiplayer dungeons, in other games, for the story.

I did them (repeatedly) because I enjoyed doing them, to one extent or another and/or to gear.

I rarely do them here, as I can't queue as DPS on my own - queue never pops - and I don't care about gear, as there is no LFR (or LFT!) to progress to, I dislike the gearing system and I don't do many regular trials.

I need a quick pop, as otherwise I wander off and do something else and my bags are then too full to do the dungeon.

Way too many I's, here, but this is all personal opinion, so I guess that is inevitable.

WilliamESO · January 2020

NO. Do not add a story mode.

Remove pve keep pvp

Adam_Chattaway · January 2020

NO. Do not add a story mode.

What i would like is LF Raid Finder for trials. played game since day 1, never done a trial. can;t commit to a busy raid schedule because of work so i've never been able to see one lol.

Olauron · January 2020

YES. We want a story mode.

Kiyakotari wrote: »

- There should be no drops available in the "story mode" versions of this content. None. I don't mean "no set gear" drops, I mean no drops. No gold, no consumables, no decon trash gear, no vendables. Nothing. This will prevent people from using "story mode" to farm loot from the content.
- There should be no XP given for any enemies defeated during the run, or for completing the content. This will prevent people from using "story mode" to farm XP or level characters.

If there are no rewards for mobs, any rewards, then there should be no mobs. In overland and in delves there are drops and XP. Not worth the time so I ignore mobs if possible but at the very least I get something for wasting my time on killing some bandit or goblin. Wasting time on mobs without any rewards would be just stupid.

Thannazzar · January 2020

NO. Do not add a story mode.

I found this an issue with the speed heads that race through content.

If it's your first time in a dungeon and you want to listen to the NPCs let the other players know in chat.

Most players are reasonable that way.

If they are not, respec your character to tank or heal, not only do you get faster queues but on dlc dungeons the other players either wait for you or die.

Kendaric · January 2020

YES. We want a story mode.

Thannazzar wrote: »

If they are not, respec your character to tank or heal, not only do you get faster queues but on dlc dungeons the other players either wait for you or die.

That's easier said than done... how many PUGs will be willing to put up with an inexperienced tank or healer who doesn't know the boss mechanics and lacks appropriate gear?

Not many I guess.

If ZOS intends to integrate dungeons into future storylines, a story- or questmode (with reduced or even no rewards) is the way to go. Forced grouping as well as forced soloing (e.g. Soulshriven main quest or guild quests) is generally a bad idea, since either approach alienates many players.

lagrue · January 2020

Other:

I'm just indifferent. I don't personally want them, I play vet because I enjoy dungeon content.

That said I'm not opposed to the idea because it would be beneficial twofold;
1. Players who want story get story
2. Players who want to play dungeons don't have to be hindered by, or otherwise ruin the experience (by rushing) for the story players.

The reason I don't just say yes is because well... this isn't a quick easy task, it's not a simple copy pasta. At this point, I'm really not sure this is exactly what I want ZOS spending their manpower and resources on...

Blood_again · January 2020

YES. We want a story mode.

Olauron wrote: »

If there are no rewards for mobs, any rewards, then there should be no mobs. In overland and in delves there are drops and XP. Not worth the time so I ignore mobs if possible but at the very least I get something for wasting my time on killing some bandit or goblin. Wasting time on mobs without any rewards would be just stupid.

The key word here is the "story". If the story is about "help goblins fighting against dreughs", then there obviously should be the dreugh mobs. And if you want a story, you kill them to help goblins. That's the story about.
No loot and no exp here have the only reason here - don't allow the story mode exploiting for easy farm.

If you have no time, just wanna loot - you run solo normal for farm. No need for story mode for you then.

Olauron · January 2020

YES. We want a story mode.

Blood_again wrote: »

The key word here is the "story". If the story is about "help goblins fighting against dreughs", then there obviously should be the dreugh mobs. And if you want a story, you kill them to help goblins. That's the story about.
No loot and no exp here have the only reason here - don't allow the story mode exploiting for easy farm.

If you have no time, just wanna loot - you run solo normal for farm. No need for story mode for you then.

Farm what? Gold? Lockpicks? White pieces of weapon and armor? Tell me, who in the right mind would farm white non-set equipment and less than 10 of gold pieces when you can farm dolmens? Do you see a lot of people farming wolves on Summerset or imps on Auridon? Guess what, those mobs give XP, gold and a small amount of loot. Like all overland and delve mobs. Because, guess what, your armor needs repair after the fight. Because, guess what, your weapon needs recharge after the fight. Loot from mobs is implemented specifically to compensate your losses.

TheFM · January 2020

NO. Do not add a story mode.

Olauron wrote: »

Blood_again wrote: »

The key word here is the "story". If the story is about "help goblins fighting against dreughs", then there obviously should be the dreugh mobs. And if you want a story, you kill them to help goblins. That's the story about.
No loot and no exp here have the only reason here - don't allow the story mode exploiting for easy farm.

If you have no time, just wanna loot - you run solo normal for farm. No need for story mode for you then.

Farm what? Gold? Lockpicks? White pieces of weapon and armor? Tell me, who in the right mind would farm white non-set equipment and less than 10 of gold pieces when you can farm dolmens? Do you see a lot of people farming wolves on Summerset or imps on Auridon? Guess what, those mobs give XP, gold and a small amount of loot. Like all overland and delve mobs. Because, guess what, your armor needs repair after the fight. Because, guess what, your weapon needs recharge after the fight. Loot from mobs is implemented specifically to compensate your losses.

You underestimate people, if there is a way to farm set gear 100 times faster, it wouldn't matter if it's white.

No rewards for a no effort mode, otherwise it's clear why people want it.

Blood_again · January 2020

YES. We want a story mode.

TheFM wrote: »

Tell you what, you can have a solo mode when we get a vet overland mode.

Ergo, never.

You know what, you have nothing to trade.
I'd love the vet overland too, but it is off-topic here, and obviously can't be a trade thing in exchange for solo mode.
You try to make a condition, but you have no power to provide or restrict these things.
Could we just leave such conditions to ZoS who have this power?

Alinhbo_Tyaka · January 2020

Yes. Although I don’t want a story mode, let people who want it have it.

D0PAMINE wrote: »

What's wrong with soloing Normals or running with guildies?

Not everyone can solo a dungeon and that includes normal FG1. While guild members might be more reliable in getting a group together they can suffer from the same problems you have with PUGs. While helpful guilds are not the panacea they are made out to be here on the forums.

Olauron · January 2020

YES. We want a story mode.

TheFM wrote: »

You underestimate people, if there is a way to farm set gear 100 times faster, it wouldn't matter if it's white.

No rewards for a no effort mode, otherwise it's clear why people want it.

Ah, so wolves on Summerset and imps on Auridon drop set gear. Would you be so kind to enlighten me what are the names of those sets? What sets are dropped by delve mobs?

TheFM · January 2020

NO. Do not add a story mode.

Blood_again wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Tell you what, you can have a solo mode when we get a vet overland mode.

Ergo, never.

You know what, you have nothing to trade.
I'd love the vet overland too, but it is off-topic here, and obviously can't be a trade thing in exchange for solo mode.
You try to make a condition, but you have no power to provide or restrict these things.
Could we just leave such conditions to ZoS who have this power?

Neither do you. You think you can demand a story mode and ignore what others have been asking for for years. Considering the story mode crowd had the most content out of Everyone, fair would be to give something to pvp players or another neglected player group.

Fair is fair. I know that's pesky.

Iccotak · January 2020

Yes. Although I don’t want a story mode, let people who want it have it.

Blood_again wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Tell you what, you can have a solo mode when we get a vet overland mode.

Ergo, never.

You know what, you have nothing to trade.
I'd love the vet overland too, but it is off-topic here, and obviously can't be a trade thing in exchange for solo mode.
You try to make a condition, but you have no power to provide or restrict these things.
Could we just leave such conditions to ZoS who have this power?

I'd take Solo dungeon if we can get Group Dungeon mode of Story Bosses with Vet difficulty options

idk · January 2020

Other:

TheFM wrote: »

Blood_again wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Tell you what, you can have a solo mode when we get a vet overland mode.

Ergo, never.

You know what, you have nothing to trade.
I'd love the vet overland too, but it is off-topic here, and obviously can't be a trade thing in exchange for solo mode.
You try to make a condition, but you have no power to provide or restrict these things.
Could we just leave such conditions to ZoS who have this power?

Neither do you. You think you can demand a story mode and ignore what others have been asking for for years. Considering the story mode crowd had the most content out of Everyone, fair would be to give something to pvp players or another neglected player group.

Fair is fair. I know that's pesky.

It does not seem they are demanding anything, just requesting. Further, this is separate from anything others have asked for at any time outside of requests for a story mode for dungeons that are tied to the zone stories. So yes, they are wise to ignore unrelated requests as this is not a bartering issue so those are logically completely irrelevant on pretty much every level. Heck, Zos is not going to care about unrelated requests either as it makes no sense.

Kendaric · January 2020

YES. We want a story mode.

TheFM wrote: »

You underestimate people, if there is a way to farm set gear 100 times faster, it wouldn't matter if it's white.

No rewards for a no effort mode, otherwise it's clear why people want it.

A quest-/storymode should still have drops like normal overland quest content or delves. After all, it would most likely still be harder than a delve (most likely inbetween delve and public dungeon in terms of difficulty).

Of course it shouldn't award dungeon set pieces, those must be reserved for group modes. They are the greatest incentive, besides the fugly monster helmets/shoulders, for running dungeons over and over again after all.
A storymode should also not grant achievements, they are tied to the the normal/vet modes and that's fine. I'm a bit torn about the skill point, since it would depend on when the skill point is gained. If it's for defeating the final boss/finishing the dungeon... then it shouldn't be granted. If, however, it is tied to the quest, it should be granted.

curtisnewton · January 2020

YES. We want a story mode.

I dont like real life things when i am playing elder scrolls. Wanted to do a dungeon (first elseweyr) and had to qeue, which is already more real life meta than i like. But after waiting five - ten minutes and being killed by dungeon mobs over and over i cancelled it.
The extreme mob strength gain feels immersion breaking: i normally 'kill' deadra but suddenly I die to a dog?

Also I dont want to join guilds and talk or write.. I just want to be immersed.. Have the feeling i got to skip dungeons. I just hope i wont miss important story pieces..

Just hope devs recognize elder scrolls strength and not force wow gameplay down our throates. Why is there a need for static group dungeons anyway? Thats so anachronistic, its 2020 and not 2006....

Why not dynamically sync to player count and make it open. More players, more mobs, or greater mobs....

BejaProphet · January 2020

Many players like what they are doing with dungeons. Validating the story driven and casual gamers should not imply taking away the hardcore side of the game.

Fear of that very over reaction is a major reason ideas like this are opposed.

TokenIntellect · January 2020

YES. We want a story mode.

Many players are vehemently opposed to what they're doing with dungeons. Validating the tender feelings of the 'hardcore' gamers should not come at the expense of burying the story behind one-shot mechanics and forced group play.

A failure to imagine a game that works for more people is one of the biggest disappointments of this last year.

Oh, and how does adding something that expands the access to story take something away from the 'hardcore' side of the game? That's just silliness. It's not a zero-sum game.

Smitch_59 · January 2020

YES. We want a story mode.

I haven't bought a dungeon DLC in years. Adding a story mode to make that content more accessible would encourage me to actually buy it.

BejaProphet · January 2020

@TokenIntellect I was responding only to the suggestion of taking away the current dungeon options.

Which by definition is taking them away.

Araneae6537 · January 2020

YES. We want a story mode.

Yes, because I do like to actually experience the story fully and talk to the NPCs — not every time, mind you, but for the first time It would be great! This would in no way diminish my doing dungeons with others, just make it easier to get the story experience as well.

Contaminate · January 2020

NO. Do not add a story mode.

TokenIntellect wrote: »

Many players are vehemently opposed to what they're doing with dungeons. Validating the tender feelings of the 'hardcore' gamers should not come at the expense of burying the story behind one-shot mechanics and forced group play.

A failure to imagine a game that works for more people is one of the biggest disappointments of this last year.

Oh, and how does adding something that expands the access to story take something away from the 'hardcore' side of the game? That's just silliness. It's not a zero-sum game.

Normal dungeons are not hardcore in any way. They are very simply cleared by a moderately competent group willing to learn and respect the mechanics. They also don’t have any one shot mechanics. At all. Things that one shot on vet will never one shot you in normal.

Examples:
- MoL twins aura pops will only deal 95% hp, which can be healed up near immediately
- CoH2 second to last boss, overlaps will only take most of your health, you don’t even have to move during the fight if everyone stays in their four-point spot
- CoS final boss, Shadow Sense only takes most of your health, not all.
- Selene’s bear takes a lot of your health if you don’t block, but blocking makes it a nonissue

If apparently 75% of the playerbase wants dungeons the same level as an overland experience, then you all should have no issue forming groups to do so on any platform. To those claiming other people being in the instance ruins the experience, then your issue is not worth attempting to “fix” in specifically multiplayer content. Your issue is inherent to any multiplayer experience, and it’s a You problem that will have no solution in an MMO.

curtisnewton · January 2020

YES. We want a story mode.

Why not make dungeons without story.. TRial, training etc. No npcs.. Wouldnt that make the hardcore crowd happy?

But make the story experience seamless. No rule breaking with suddenly coming to a full stop because the story telling shell: game, wants you to meta a group and chat and talk...

Imagine reading a book, and suddenly the pages are in italian and chinese.. Why??