Story Mode Dungeons: Do we want them?

BejaProphet

idk wrote: »

Keep up the good fight. Do not stress about people suggesting that to get a solo story mode of these dungeons they need to get PvP in PvE zones or a vet instance of zones. Zos will make a decision on this on it's own merits. Not other aspects that have no bearing or relevance.

There are two facts to focus on. Maybe more.

First, the zone stories are designed to be solo, not group, and Zos has chosen to bring this into the DLC dungeons so a solo version of them makes sense. Another game that used to be a major title did this because it makes sense and it had no measurable negative impact on the game. I pointed out the real reason for that games decline earlier.

Second, money, money, money. Whether you rend (ESO+) access to the dungeons or buy the DLCs outright that is money which is the reason Zos creates all this content. It could possibly increase revenue from people who normally avoid dungeons due to the toxic nature we have seen from GF related thread.

In the end, those who like to do the group version will still do the group versions because it is what they like to do. It would likely be minimal effort for Zos to create these story mode versions once they had it setup.

I agree with everything you said. I had no idea this poll would be so dramatic. I had no idea so many wanted this. But now that it is here for all to see, I can’t imagine the developers have ignored it. I think this could really happen now.

DaveMoeDee

YES. We want a story mode.

As someone who enjoys vet dungeons, I would still use the story mode on many of the dungeons where I haven't had a chance to really pay attention to the narrative. No set gear or other dungeons specific drops though.

Honestly though, I only say yes to say I would use it. I'm not sure I would endorse it as something devs actually spend time on.

Linaleah

YES. We want a story mode.

Ciana_Rilian wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Ciana_Rilian wrote: »

Just so you guys know, if this is implemented and they give rewards for story dungeons i'll never queue again.
Why be stuck with a bunch of randoms when i can solo?

you guys will start to slowly kill the group content with this.

When will we cry for story mode trials?

becasue they won' give the same rewards? if you want group rewards, you have to do a group version. its not like this is a new and unexpected concept, other games have done this before.

story mode trials that don't drop trials gear or achievements - would be great. there are some choice stories in those.

What rewards will they give then? try and figure that out as a community. Because whatever they would implement there would be people that wouldn''t think it would be enough or some might think its too much. Apart from that i still think it would divide the playerbase.
Can you give me an example of other games who've done this?

SWTOR for example. rewards could be random vendor trash. whatever you'd get from killing overland mobs in the zone that the dungeon is placed in. and it will not divide player base for one simple reason. people who would be using the mode are not the target audience of the group dungeons. best case scenario if story players step foot into a dungeon in a first place, they go in once and never again. they are not the same players you do pledges, etc with.

DaveMoeDee

YES. We want a story mode.

Linaleah wrote: »

Ciana_Rilian wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Ciana_Rilian wrote: »

Just so you guys know, if this is implemented and they give rewards for story dungeons i'll never queue again.
Why be stuck with a bunch of randoms when i can solo?

you guys will start to slowly kill the group content with this.

When will we cry for story mode trials?

becasue they won' give the same rewards? if you want group rewards, you have to do a group version. its not like this is a new and unexpected concept, other games have done this before.

story mode trials that don't drop trials gear or achievements - would be great. there are some choice stories in those.

What rewards will they give then? try and figure that out as a community. Because whatever they would implement there would be people that wouldn''t think it would be enough or some might think its too much. Apart from that i still think it would divide the playerbase.
Can you give me an example of other games who've done this?

SWTOR for example. rewards could be random vendor trash. whatever you'd get from killing overland mobs in the zone that the dungeon is placed in. and it will not divide player base for one simple reason. people who would be using the mode are not the target audience of the group dungeons. best case scenario if story players step foot into a dungeon in a first place, they go in once and never again. they are not the same players you do pledges, etc with.

It can be the same people who do pledges. I have pugged plenty of vet pledges, but there are a significant number of dungeons where I haven't had a chance to follow the narrative closely. I would do those as a solo story mode.

Agreed though that drops should be trash and should not include dungeon specific drops. The mode is merely for the story, which necessarily includes the combat.

Gythral

Yes. Although I don’t want a story mode, let people who want it have it.

Mannix1958 wrote: »

I'm not sure what the downside of this proposal would be.

Only downside is some more instances being created
and maybe a 'few' less in the broken queue system

Upside is maybe a few more will do the content for the story and like it enough to do the 'speed' runs that the pledgers want, adding to the queue numbers

Linaleah

YES. We want a story mode.

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Ciana_Rilian wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Ciana_Rilian wrote: »

Just so you guys know, if this is implemented and they give rewards for story dungeons i'll never queue again.
Why be stuck with a bunch of randoms when i can solo?

you guys will start to slowly kill the group content with this.

When will we cry for story mode trials?

becasue they won' give the same rewards? if you want group rewards, you have to do a group version. its not like this is a new and unexpected concept, other games have done this before.

story mode trials that don't drop trials gear or achievements - would be great. there are some choice stories in those.

What rewards will they give then? try and figure that out as a community. Because whatever they would implement there would be people that wouldn''t think it would be enough or some might think its too much. Apart from that i still think it would divide the playerbase.
Can you give me an example of other games who've done this?

SWTOR for example. rewards could be random vendor trash. whatever you'd get from killing overland mobs in the zone that the dungeon is placed in. and it will not divide player base for one simple reason. people who would be using the mode are not the target audience of the group dungeons. best case scenario if story players step foot into a dungeon in a first place, they go in once and never again. they are not the same players you do pledges, etc with.

It can be the same people who do pledges. I have pugged plenty of vet pledges, but there are a significant number of dungeons where I haven't had a chance to follow the narrative closely. I would do those as a solo story mode.

Agreed though that drops should be trash and should not include dungeon specific drops. The mode is merely for the story, which necessarily includes the combat.

I mean, yes, it can be - I do pledges and i also enjoy story. but me being able to do the story solo will not stop me from doing pledges, etc, because i do them for different reason. which is kinda the point. people who run group dungeons as group content - will continue to run group dungeons as group content. the incentive to run those will not be going anywhere.

and since it will come up - doing story mode dungeon, would NOT count towards the pledge quest.

Ciana_Rilian

NO. Do not add a story mode.

Linaleah wrote: »

Ciana_Rilian wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Ciana_Rilian wrote: »

Just so you guys know, if this is implemented and they give rewards for story dungeons i'll never queue again.
Why be stuck with a bunch of randoms when i can solo?

you guys will start to slowly kill the group content with this.

When will we cry for story mode trials?

becasue they won' give the same rewards? if you want group rewards, you have to do a group version. its not like this is a new and unexpected concept, other games have done this before.

story mode trials that don't drop trials gear or achievements - would be great. there are some choice stories in those.

What rewards will they give then? try and figure that out as a community. Because whatever they would implement there would be people that wouldn''t think it would be enough or some might think its too much. Apart from that i still think it would divide the playerbase.
Can you give me an example of other games who've done this?

SWTOR for example. rewards could be random vendor trash. whatever you'd get from killing overland mobs in the zone that the dungeon is placed in. and it will not divide player base for one simple reason. people who would be using the mode are not the target audience of the group dungeons. best case scenario if story players step foot into a dungeon in a first place, they go in once and never again. they are not the same players you do pledges, etc with.

Thanks for the example!

so you want them to implement this system so that a person can do it once and never touch it again. i my mind that a bit of a waste of development time. we can all say how it would be easy but it would probadly be harder to program then we might think. Alot of boss fight mechanics have to be changed for example.

And okay so no rewards for them, thats great i completly agree with it. but then what is the rewards for doing it solo? Just the story? are ESO dungeon stories that good? to me most of the story in this game is basic fantasy copy paste with a couple adjustments. don't get me wrong i enjoy the overarching scale and story of Elder scrolls, but elderscrolls ONLINE lore is basic mmo lore sprinkled with a bit of TES in my opinion.

Like someone else already said: what about all the extra instances that would have to be ran? Just so you can listen to your B written story at your own pace. We already have *** servers.

You can already solo normal dungeons easy enough. Just enter the dungeon from the map and do it that way?

idk

Other:

BejaProphet wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Keep up the good fight. Do not stress about people suggesting that to get a solo story mode of these dungeons they need to get PvP in PvE zones or a vet instance of zones. Zos will make a decision on this on it's own merits. Not other aspects that have no bearing or relevance.

There are two facts to focus on. Maybe more.

First, the zone stories are designed to be solo, not group, and Zos has chosen to bring this into the DLC dungeons so a solo version of them makes sense. Another game that used to be a major title did this because it makes sense and it had no measurable negative impact on the game. I pointed out the real reason for that games decline earlier.

Second, money, money, money. Whether you rend (ESO+) access to the dungeons or buy the DLCs outright that is money which is the reason Zos creates all this content. It could possibly increase revenue from people who normally avoid dungeons due to the toxic nature we have seen from GF related thread.

In the end, those who like to do the group version will still do the group versions because it is what they like to do. It would likely be minimal effort for Zos to create these story mode versions once they had it setup.

I agree with everything you said. I had no idea this poll would be so dramatic. I had no idea so many wanted this. But now that it is here for all to see, I can’t imagine the developers have ignored it. I think this could really happen now.

True. However, the developers weigh multiple aspects of an idea before deciding to implement it or not.

One thing we have seen that is undeniable is that Zos does heed the squeaky wheel on issues like this. This is undeniable as Zos has brought back faction locks in some campaigns and is testing out solo only BG queues and both cases Zos listed the first reason as players requests. So really, the longer this thread goes the more likely it will happen eventually.

Linaleah

YES. We want a story mode.

Ciana_Rilian wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Ciana_Rilian wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Ciana_Rilian wrote: »

Just so you guys know, if this is implemented and they give rewards for story dungeons i'll never queue again.
Why be stuck with a bunch of randoms when i can solo?

you guys will start to slowly kill the group content with this.

When will we cry for story mode trials?

becasue they won' give the same rewards? if you want group rewards, you have to do a group version. its not like this is a new and unexpected concept, other games have done this before.

story mode trials that don't drop trials gear or achievements - would be great. there are some choice stories in those.

What rewards will they give then? try and figure that out as a community. Because whatever they would implement there would be people that wouldn''t think it would be enough or some might think its too much. Apart from that i still think it would divide the playerbase.
Can you give me an example of other games who've done this?

SWTOR for example. rewards could be random vendor trash. whatever you'd get from killing overland mobs in the zone that the dungeon is placed in. and it will not divide player base for one simple reason. people who would be using the mode are not the target audience of the group dungeons. best case scenario if story players step foot into a dungeon in a first place, they go in once and never again. they are not the same players you do pledges, etc with.

Thanks for the example!

so you want them to implement this system so that a person can do it once and never touch it again. i my mind that a bit of a waste of development time. we can all say how it would be easy but it would probadly be harder to program then we might think. Alot of boss fight mechanics have to be changed for example.

And okay so no rewards for them, thats great i completly agree with it. but then what is the rewards for doing it solo? Just the story? are ESO dungeon stories that good? to me most of the story in this game is basic fantasy copy paste with a couple adjustments. don't get me wrong i enjoy the overarching scale and story of Elder scrolls, but elderscrolls ONLINE lore is basic mmo lore sprinkled with a bit of TES in my opinion.

Like someone else already said: what about all the extra instances that would have to be ran? Just so you can listen to your B written story at your own pace. We already have *** servers.

You can already solo normal dungeons easy enough. Just enter the dungeon from the map and do it that way?

not everyone can solo dungeons, especially DLC dungeons which are the ones that are of most concern (due to them being directly tied into main stories of the expansions

you wouldn't need to change mechanics all that much, just scale the player power. we even have a code in game already to accomplish that - main vestige story, the way you get a buff to fight final boss (I'm trying to avoid story spoilers here, just in case)

exception being stuff like blackheart heaven getting skeletoned, or having those pressure pads that 2 people have to stand on at the same time.

all of the solo overworld stories are not repeatable unless you do them on alts. and yet, ZoS finds it worth it to write and implement them. why would dungeon stories be any different? I'm still not sure having all the extra instances is the issue, when groupfinder straggles it tends to be because it has to create a ton of those simultaneously WHILE matchmaking. matchmaking would not be involved in solo dungeons that you travel to physically.

you are underestimating just how much lore there is in this game, including dungeons. Which is kinda why this type of thread keeps cropping up. which is why ZoS already implemented the bandaid solution of group disband kick timer lasting a lot longer (but that only sorta solves the skill point quest issue, assuming you got to even progress quest enough to be able to turn it in - it does nothing for actual story enjoyment)

MEBengalsFan2001

NO. Do not add a story mode.

idk wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

theyancey wrote: »

What I want to see is more of a solo mode as we have through much of the base game where the computer fills in the remaining members of the group that we lack. There could be an assortment of class/faction NPCs that we could choose from to take the group to 4 members. While I might choose 1 tank, 1 healer, and another DPS to fill out my group you may wish to experiment with a different configuration. It would also be a great learning and testing environment. Want to check out how your skills in one role or another are working? Here is where you can do that without other players suffering the consequences of your mistakes. ZOS likes for players to try different roles and activities. This would be a good way to encourage running dungeons and other group activities. It would open more of the game to a large part of the player base thereby adding value to ESO. Imagine the financial windfall from new sales of dungeon DLCs, increased ESO+ membership, and crown store purchases.

Moreover this type approach would be in keeping with Matt's blueprint for the game. Ignore the threads that you see about how ESO is an RPG or MMO. Instead take it from the person who developed,built, and runs the game. This quote from Matt Frior is just as true today as it was in 2016:

ESO is not really a traditional MMO, so we don’t use that term much around the office – and it is this distinction that separates it from other games. If you want to play it solo, like you did with other Elder Scrolls games, you can do that. If you want to play it super-grindy with dungeons, Trials, and group bosses as the core of you experience, you can join up with others and do that too. It’s really up to you to figure out how you want to play it, as we don’t enforce a play style one way or the other. In fact, ESO has been super-successful at taking gamers not used to massive online games, introducing them to the concepts of group play by making it fun and optional, and turning them into online gamers.


I believe that such a solo mode for group content would be the easiest way to make the game as accessible to the many without placing any undue burden on the few. Instead of a cost it is a moneymaker. It holds true to both the history of the TES franchise and to the vision of the creator of ESO. I'm all for it.

That quote has been refuted 304929042 times, and the game is even labeled as an mmo. What you are describing is EXACTLY what they did in swtor and it ABSOLUTE BUTCHERED the dungeon population. No thanks, a solo version, without any form of reward would be ok, but absolutely nothing more.

You are wrong about SWTOR. It is very obvious that when a game is not adding new content, especially group content plus simplifies their character builds heavily they will lose population.

If you were a serious group player in SWTOR, probably even a serious player to begin with, then Keyboardninja will be a recognizable name as he was one of the top theorycrafters in SWTOR and top raider. One of his stated reasons for leaving the game was the group content release schedule because they were releasing the next raid one boss at a time over a year. That comment came in January 2017 and it was not until a couple months ago they released the raid that came after that. That is a pretty slow pace and is the reason a large number of raiders left the game.

Link to that thread. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=913165

Granted, it is just part of his reasoning but it all comes down to poor management and direction of group content in the game.

You do know about the big issue now with game developers. That issue is called CRUNCH. MMOs and games like Fortnite are mostly in CRUNCH mode all the time to release new content quickly and fast and to ensure constant income stream. CRUNCH typically involves long hours (12+) a day, weekends, etc... most game developers are called Vets after just 5 years in the industry because the industry has such a high burnout rate.

When I hear players state you went cheap and did a reskin of XYZ, I feel bad for the team that did that because it is an item that they were able to reskin and sell and make a decent profit off from its players. This is common especially in games with market places.

CRUNCH time in gaming development is a big issue and there is a push to create a Game Developers Union to ensure CRUNCH time goes away or to ensure developers are properly paid if they do end up being part of a games CRUNCH.

Some MMO games have reduced their development plans for the year do to this and with Bioware being SWTOR creator they have been under a microscope with what is called Bioware Magic since DA:I was launched in 2014. It doesn't surprise me to see STWOR not having as many releases.

I am shocked with how much ESO is releasing each year. Hopefully they have a big staff and if not, I hope I give props to the developers here.

snoozy

YES. We want a story mode.

jeez, will zos ever listen?

how many more replies and votes does this thread need until they take notice?

zvavi

NO. Do not add a story mode.

snoozy wrote: »

jeez, will zos ever listen?

how many more replies and votes does this thread need until they take notice?

To be honest, if the performance updates end up giving better performance with the idea of solo dungeon mode

kringled_1

YES. We want a story mode.

Ciana_Rilian wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Ciana_Rilian wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Ciana_Rilian wrote: »

Just so you guys know, if this is implemented and they give rewards for story dungeons i'll never queue again.
Why be stuck with a bunch of randoms when i can solo?

you guys will start to slowly kill the group content with this.

When will we cry for story mode trials?

becasue they won' give the same rewards? if you want group rewards, you have to do a group version. its not like this is a new and unexpected concept, other games have done this before.

story mode trials that don't drop trials gear or achievements - would be great. there are some choice stories in those.

What rewards will they give then? try and figure that out as a community. Because whatever they would implement there would be people that wouldn''t think it would be enough or some might think its too much. Apart from that i still think it would divide the playerbase.
Can you give me an example of other games who've done this?

SWTOR for example. rewards could be random vendor trash. whatever you'd get from killing overland mobs in the zone that the dungeon is placed in. and it will not divide player base for one simple reason. people who would be using the mode are not the target audience of the group dungeons. best case scenario if story players step foot into a dungeon in a first place, they go in once and never again. they are not the same players you do pledges, etc with.

Thanks for the example!

so you want them to implement this system so that a person can do it once and never touch it again. i my mind that a bit of a waste of development time. we can all say how it would be easy but it would probadly be harder to program then we might think. Alot of boss fight mechanics have to be changed for example.

And okay so no rewards for them, thats great i completly agree with it. but then what is the rewards for doing it solo? Just the story? are ESO dungeon stories that good? to me most of the story in this game is basic fantasy copy paste with a couple adjustments. don't get me wrong i enjoy the overarching scale and story of Elder scrolls, but elderscrolls ONLINE lore is basic mmo lore sprinkled with a bit of TES in my opinion.

Like someone else already said: what about all the extra instances that would have to be ran? Just so you can listen to your B written story at your own pace. We already have *** servers.

You can already solo normal dungeons easy enough. Just enter the dungeon from the map and do it that way?

I agree with you that both server load from additional instances, and whether there is sufficient sustained interest are both real considerations. However, it's unlikely that both would be long term issues simultaneously,since server load would only be an issue if significant numbers of people kept running this additional mode.

And yes, ESO dungeons may not have fantastically written stories. If I wanted just stories I'd be better off in another medium, or even in games I'd be better off with a single player game for story. But this is the game universe on which I've chosen to spend my time for now, in significant part because it is multi-player. But while I'm in say Moongrave Fane with guildies for motifs or helping someone get hollowfang gear, I'd like to know as much about the back story of that dungeon as they've put in game, without aggravating people who may just be there for the drops or the challenge.
I answered this poll the way I did, because it is something I would like and would use, without any reward other than the story. But also, I probably wouldn't use it much. Once or twice per new dungeon really. This is why I haven't gone to a lot of lengths to find a guild that might do this after the first one I investigated turned out to not be a fit. I even have Linaleah on my friends list but haven't really discussed this in part because I know our schedules don't match well. If you gave me a hypothetical budget of development hours and this was one of many things to work on, it might well lose to a lot of other priorities.

Odovacar

Yes. Although I don’t want a story mode, let people who want it have it.

I don't really care...I just want the achievements and reaping's...let the ones who want it though, have it...its not all about you mentality…

BejaProphet

snoozy wrote: »

jeez, will zos ever listen?

how many more replies and votes does this thread need until they take notice?

They won’t ignore this thread. They may decide against doing it for this or that reason, but they will definitely ask the question internally.

Too many people have voted and the results were too dramatically lop sided. They have noticed. Just don’t expect that to mean a comment in this thread. It will mean we see something a year from now if they go for it.

It is what it is.

Casdha

YES. We want a story mode.

One thing of note, if any version of this was put into game it would be useless without a dungeon completion reset.

They have done it before. The ones I had completed early on got reset when One Tamriel came out as well as all of Graglorn.

Sadetius

Yes. Although I don’t want a story mode, let people who want it have it.

Sure, different folks different strokes. Then also add an veteran overland option

Starlock

YES. We want a story mode.

BejaProphet wrote: »

snoozy wrote: »

jeez, will zos ever listen?

how many more replies and votes does this thread need until they take notice?

They won’t ignore this thread. They may decide against doing it for this or that reason, but they will definitely ask the question internally.

Too many people have voted and the results were too dramatically lop sided. They have noticed. Just don’t expect that to mean a comment in this thread. It will mean we see something a year from now if they go for it.

It is what it is.

We had this discussion a year ago. It was as lopsided then as it is now, as I recall. I wager we haven't seen anything about it for this year because they already had their development timetable planned and their plate was full, especially with that performance improvement plan.

TheImperfect

YES. We want a story mode.

Contaminate wrote: »

TokenIntellect wrote: »

Many players are vehemently opposed to what they're doing with dungeons. Validating the tender feelings of the 'hardcore' gamers should not come at the expense of burying the story behind one-shot mechanics and forced group play.

A failure to imagine a game that works for more people is one of the biggest disappointments of this last year.

Oh, and how does adding something that expands the access to story take something away from the 'hardcore' side of the game? That's just silliness. It's not a zero-sum game.

Normal dungeons are not hardcore in any way. They are very simply cleared by a moderately competent group willing to learn and respect the mechanics. They also don’t have any one shot mechanics. At all. Things that one shot on vet will never one shot you in normal.

Examples:
- MoL twins aura pops will only deal 95% hp, which can be healed up near immediately
- CoH2 second to last boss, overlaps will only take most of your health, you don’t even have to move during the fight if everyone stays in their four-point spot
- CoS final boss, Shadow Sense only takes most of your health, not all.
- Selene’s bear takes a lot of your health if you don’t block, but blocking makes it a nonissue

If apparently 75% of the playerbase wants dungeons the same level as an overland experience, then you all should have no issue forming groups to do so on any platform. To those claiming other people being in the instance ruins the experience, then your issue is not worth attempting to “fix” in specifically multiplayer content. Your issue is inherent to any multiplayer experience, and it’s a You problem that will have no solution in an MMO.

I think most people have no problem completing the dungeons on normal especially when they have levelled up a lot and gained experience. I think the issue is more about having the time to listen to dialogue, read lore books, explore the area fully, talk to the npc's and listen to their dialogue etc.

TheImperfect

YES. We want a story mode.

Contaminate wrote: »

curtisnewton wrote: »

Why not make dungeons without story.. TRial, training etc. No npcs.. Wouldnt that make the hardcore crowd happy?

But make the story experience seamless. No rule breaking with suddenly coming to a full stop because the story telling shell: game, wants you to meta a group and chat and talk...

Imagine reading a book, and suddenly the pages are in italian and chinese.. Why??

Imagine reading a book, it sets up this terrifying villain. It goes into detail about his plots and the adventurers before now that have all tried and failed to take him down. Now a new hero arrives, described in glorious detail their travels to his lair, and then says “villain died the end”. That’s what overland is to most skilled players.

There’s no flavor behind a 100k hp “boss”. There’s no flavor behind a “world ending threat” that dies in 3s.

What does have flavor and significant narrative appeal, is an enemy that actually provides a challenge. That survives a couple hits and actually gets to finish its dialogue before its dead.

You turn a dungeon in any way shape or form into a point and click text game with invulnerable NPCs and gutted mechanics just so you can read a couple lines of fluff conversation, then that’s no longer a compelling narrative. That’s pointless and no more engaging than watching someone else play through it.

The storytelling is fine. It’s the one good thing about ESO, but it requires you not attack in overland until the enemy stops talking, or he won’t get through his first line. In a dungeon, the questing is seamless, the NPC companion dialogue is fluff that isn’t needed to build the story fully.

The Wrathstone dungeons weren’t remotely important to the Elsweyr story as a whole. The stone tablets could have been literally anything else, and narrative would have remained the same in those dungeons.

You aren’t missing out on a story when you don’t hear every extra line of dialogue, you’re not missing out on the ice cream in a sundae, you’re missing at worst the extra swirls of whipped cream.

Some of us really like whipped cream, especially with moonsugar.

Linaleah

YES. We want a story mode.

mrsrobot wrote: »

Contaminate wrote: »

curtisnewton wrote: »

Why not make dungeons without story.. TRial, training etc. No npcs.. Wouldnt that make the hardcore crowd happy?

But make the story experience seamless. No rule breaking with suddenly coming to a full stop because the story telling shell: game, wants you to meta a group and chat and talk...

Imagine reading a book, and suddenly the pages are in italian and chinese.. Why??

Imagine reading a book, it sets up this terrifying villain. It goes into detail about his plots and the adventurers before now that have all tried and failed to take him down. Now a new hero arrives, described in glorious detail their travels to his lair, and then says “villain died the end”. That’s what overland is to most skilled players.

There’s no flavor behind a 100k hp “boss”. There’s no flavor behind a “world ending threat” that dies in 3s.

What does have flavor and significant narrative appeal, is an enemy that actually provides a challenge. That survives a couple hits and actually gets to finish its dialogue before its dead.

You turn a dungeon in any way shape or form into a point and click text game with invulnerable NPCs and gutted mechanics just so you can read a couple lines of fluff conversation, then that’s no longer a compelling narrative. That’s pointless and no more engaging than watching someone else play through it.

The storytelling is fine. It’s the one good thing about ESO, but it requires you not attack in overland until the enemy stops talking, or he won’t get through his first line. In a dungeon, the questing is seamless, the NPC companion dialogue is fluff that isn’t needed to build the story fully.

The Wrathstone dungeons weren’t remotely important to the Elsweyr story as a whole. The stone tablets could have been literally anything else, and narrative would have remained the same in those dungeons.

You aren’t missing out on a story when you don’t hear every extra line of dialogue, you’re not missing out on the ice cream in a sundae, you’re missing at worst the extra swirls of whipped cream.

Some of us really like whipped cream, especially with moonsugar.

yep. and IMO, its more like.. seasonings in your stew. do you get basic nutrition from your veggies and protein and a minimal amount of salt? yes. its edible and it will probably sate you. but boy oh boy does it taste so much better if you add some garlic and herbs and a few spices (but not that kind that is so hot that it burns any and all feeling from your taste budds so that all you feel is the burn. the flavorful kind - your paprikas and your turmeric etc.

I know that different people value different things and its kinda the point. for me, i don't need to fight a complicated boss to appreciate the story more. on the contrary - a fight that takes up too much of my attention - distracts me from the story bits, as I'm too focused on mechanics to pay attention to anything else. character bits is what I value the most.

BejaProphet

Starlock wrote: »

BejaProphet wrote: »

snoozy wrote: »

jeez, will zos ever listen?

how many more replies and votes does this thread need until they take notice?

They won’t ignore this thread. They may decide against doing it for this or that reason, but they will definitely ask the question internally.

Too many people have voted and the results were too dramatically lop sided. They have noticed. Just don’t expect that to mean a comment in this thread. It will mean we see something a year from now if they go for it.

It is what it is.

We had this discussion a year ago. It was as lopsided then as it is now, as I recall. I wager we haven't seen anything about it for this year because they already had their development timetable planned and their plate was full, especially with that performance improvement plan.

I’m in no way saying it will happen. I’m merely saying that at some level a discussion will happen after a thread like this.

snoozy

YES. We want a story mode.

BejaProphet wrote: »

snoozy wrote: »

jeez, will zos ever listen?

how many more replies and votes does this thread need until they take notice?

They won’t ignore this thread. They may decide against doing it for this or that reason, but they will definitely ask the question internally.

Too many people have voted and the results were too dramatically lop sided. They have noticed. Just don’t expect that to mean a comment in this thread. It will mean we see something a year from now if they go for it.

It is what it is.

god i really hope it will make them seriously consider it. fingers crossed
thx for making this poll btw, it finally quantified the people asking for story mode and focused the discussion on one thread.

BejaProphet

You are welcome. To be fair, I was only curious. I’m not actually wanting it for myself. But in hind sight I’m very happy you guys have something tangible now to show that you guys are not the minority.

idk

Other:

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

theyancey wrote: »

What I want to see is more of a solo mode as we have through much of the base game where the computer fills in the remaining members of the group that we lack. There could be an assortment of class/faction NPCs that we could choose from to take the group to 4 members. While I might choose 1 tank, 1 healer, and another DPS to fill out my group you may wish to experiment with a different configuration. It would also be a great learning and testing environment. Want to check out how your skills in one role or another are working? Here is where you can do that without other players suffering the consequences of your mistakes. ZOS likes for players to try different roles and activities. This would be a good way to encourage running dungeons and other group activities. It would open more of the game to a large part of the player base thereby adding value to ESO. Imagine the financial windfall from new sales of dungeon DLCs, increased ESO+ membership, and crown store purchases.

Moreover this type approach would be in keeping with Matt's blueprint for the game. Ignore the threads that you see about how ESO is an RPG or MMO. Instead take it from the person who developed,built, and runs the game. This quote from Matt Frior is just as true today as it was in 2016:

ESO is not really a traditional MMO, so we don’t use that term much around the office – and it is this distinction that separates it from other games. If you want to play it solo, like you did with other Elder Scrolls games, you can do that. If you want to play it super-grindy with dungeons, Trials, and group bosses as the core of you experience, you can join up with others and do that too. It’s really up to you to figure out how you want to play it, as we don’t enforce a play style one way or the other. In fact, ESO has been super-successful at taking gamers not used to massive online games, introducing them to the concepts of group play by making it fun and optional, and turning them into online gamers.


I believe that such a solo mode for group content would be the easiest way to make the game as accessible to the many without placing any undue burden on the few. Instead of a cost it is a moneymaker. It holds true to both the history of the TES franchise and to the vision of the creator of ESO. I'm all for it.

That quote has been refuted 304929042 times, and the game is even labeled as an mmo. What you are describing is EXACTLY what they did in swtor and it ABSOLUTE BUTCHERED the dungeon population. No thanks, a solo version, without any form of reward would be ok, but absolutely nothing more.

You are wrong about SWTOR. It is very obvious that when a game is not adding new content, especially group content plus simplifies their character builds heavily they will lose population.

If you were a serious group player in SWTOR, probably even a serious player to begin with, then Keyboardninja will be a recognizable name as he was one of the top theorycrafters in SWTOR and top raider. One of his stated reasons for leaving the game was the group content release schedule because they were releasing the next raid one boss at a time over a year. That comment came in January 2017 and it was not until a couple months ago they released the raid that came after that. That is a pretty slow pace and is the reason a large number of raiders left the game.

Link to that thread. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=913165

Granted, it is just part of his reasoning but it all comes down to poor management and direction of group content in the game.

You do know about the big issue now with game developers. That issue is called CRUNCH. MMOs and games like Fortnite are mostly in CRUNCH mode all the time to release new content quickly and fast and to ensure constant income stream. CRUNCH typically involves long hours (12+) a day, weekends, etc... most game developers are called Vets after just 5 years in the industry because the industry has such a high burnout rate.

When I hear players state you went cheap and did a reskin of XYZ, I feel bad for the team that did that because it is an item that they were able to reskin and sell and make a decent profit off from its players. This is common especially in games with market places.

CRUNCH time in gaming development is a big issue and there is a push to create a Game Developers Union to ensure CRUNCH time goes away or to ensure developers are properly paid if they do end up being part of a games CRUNCH.

Some MMO games have reduced their development plans for the year do to this and with Bioware being SWTOR creator they have been under a microscope with what is called Bioware Magic since DA:I was launched in 2014. It doesn't surprise me to see STWOR not having as many releases.

I am shocked with how much ESO is releasing each year. Hopefully they have a big staff and if not, I hope I give props to the developers here.

Yes, and I think it is obvious that with a GaaS one has to keep providing new and refreshing content to keep players interests.

Earlier someone incorrectly implied that grouping died in SWTOR due to solo dungeons being added. I pointed out it died to do issues with content release, specifically grouped content and related issues and posted a link to one of the top theorycrafters and tanks the game had explaining as much.

Players each have different thresholds but for the most part we do not want to keep grinding the same stuff over and over. The reason to play a GaaS is for continued development of product.

And this comes to bear on this subject because Zos is not weaving the zone stories through the dungeons now. Quests lines that are inherently solo and it just makes sense to have a solo story version for each and no one has provided a worthy reason this should not happen.

LoneStar2911

YES. We want a story mode.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
So... When can we expect to see story mode implemented?

TheFM

NO. Do not add a story mode.

BejaProphet wrote: »

Ciana_Rilian wrote: »

Just so you guys know, if this is implemented and they give rewards for story dungeons i'll never queue again.
Why be stuck with a bunch of randoms when i can solo?

you guys will start to slowly kill the group content with this.

When will we cry for story mode trials?

I think this is mistaken. Why hasn’t normal dungeons killed veteran? I can get basically the same loot for less trouble. In fact, I literally can’t remember the last time I ran a dungeon because I wanted a piece of gear. I still just run ebon alkosh and have never upgraded. Yet I’m still running vet dungeons.

My point is there is a healthy population seeking challenge rather than seeking the easiest version to get the rewards.

And the whole precept is that it will be absent the rewards.

Yeah, you can't get monster helms on normal.

TheFM

NO. Do not add a story mode.

BejaProphet wrote: »

snoozy wrote: »

jeez, will zos ever listen?

how many more replies and votes does this thread need until they take notice?

They won’t ignore this thread. They may decide against doing it for this or that reason, but they will definitely ask the question internally.

Too many people have voted and the results were too dramatically lop sided. They have noticed. Just don’t expect that to mean a comment in this thread. It will mean we see something a year from now if they go for it.

It is what it is.

Tell that to spell crafting, 1h and rune, overland vet mode, spears, etc.

BejaProphet

TheFM wrote: »

BejaProphet wrote: »

snoozy wrote: »

jeez, will zos ever listen?

how many more replies and votes does this thread need until they take notice?

They won’t ignore this thread. They may decide against doing it for this or that reason, but they will definitely ask the question internally.

Too many people have voted and the results were too dramatically lop sided. They have noticed. Just don’t expect that to mean a comment in this thread. It will mean we see something a year from now if they go for it.

It is what it is.

Tell that to spell crafting, 1h and rune, overland vet mode, spears, etc.

When I started this thread I was wondering if a tiny number of players were making a disproportionate amount of complaints about this. Wow did I have things upside down!

Heelie

NO. Do not add a story mode.

Normal dungeons are already very easy, I don't believe that the game should cater to the lowest denominator. I don't believe all content should be accessible to the people that don't want to put in the effort to actually prepare for the content, already I think normal trials were a huge mistake, same goes for normal version of vet dungeons.

No content is that hard in this game that it's impossible to complete for a semi-casual player, from a story point of view.