Story Mode Dungeons: Do we want them?
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TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NO. Do not add a story mode.
I always vote FOR more difficult OPTION for overland, provided current overland remains as is and new option is added as its own set of shards. kinda like we used to have regular and vet zones. I also don't think it would be that much work to implement a zone wide battlespirit of sort. what i am against is making overland harder for everyone, REMOVING current difficulty. and the argument I've seen levied against me over. and over. and over. is that
1. it will split the player base (which is a silly notion, as we already have multiple shards in overland, we are not all playing in the same instance. don't beleive me? haven't you ever experienced being in the same zone as someone else but not seeing them, and when you group up, you get a prompt that they are in a different instance of that zone and would you like to travel to them now? if you say "no" a and go to their location - you will only see their nametag moving around but not them - cause they are in a different instance. ergo - having a separate vet instance would NOT split the playerbase any more than its already split via sharding. however - if its still some how an issue, having vet versions of delves and public dungeons and instanced story pieces is a compromise
2. just making things have more life and hit harder is not going to make it more fun. maybe. maybe not. depends on what your specific issues with overland are. for a lot of people its the fact that nothing can kill them, and things they attack - die to quickly. increasing health and damage of mobs? addresses THAT. with minimum effort, as all you need to do is adjust player scaling when they zone into vet overland. even traveling to it - can be easily solved but offering the same drop down menu we get right now when you are traveling to a wayshrine that is next to a house you own or when you are manually traveling to a group dungeon that has 1 and 2 variant.
I know I'm not the only one with similar opinions, far from it. like i said, the disagreement starts when people who want harder overland - want it harder for everyone. THEY are the ones often claiming that balancing 2 overlands is too much work, so ZoS should just make it harder for all.
and battlespirit sort of solution if you are zoning into a solo version of dungeon is a fast solution that will not require much balancing. removing certain mechanics that are group only (like having to step onto 2 plates that are in opposite corners of the room - at the same time) - will not change mechanics of actual fight, but it will be beneficial for people who solo content right now already, AND help with less then coordinated pugs.
Absolutely no one advocating for overland difficulty increase is asking it to be forced on everyone, it has always been we want 2 instances. You are basing everything on assumptions, I am basing on real world observations that were demonstrated on multiple games.
As for battle spirit, double no, this game already hand holds enough.
Solo story mode without any rewards - Yes
Anything else - No.
you are basing your ideas on extreme amount of confirmation bias coupled with cherry picking. becasue what you claim happened in those games vs what actualy happened? are very different things.
battlespirit as a simple to implement solution to solo dungeon difficulty adjustment - works perfectly fine. it could also incorporate changes in loot to drop in solo vs group version of a dungeon, much in the same way as the game is somehow capable of reading the difference between you entering vet and entering normal and changing the loot tables accordingly.
yes plenty of people asked for harder overland, period. so no, don't say that absolutely no one advocates for it, because YES. YES THEY DO.
Whatever you gotta tell yourself. Its always hilarious how the pve / story players are absolutely against anything more difficult or pvp related, but always demand more story, more pve, more more more, when most of the game is already doable by -everyone.
amazing. simply amazing.
we are not against anything more difficult or pvp related (and i'm in particular is pretty pissed off about upcoming BG change, because casual pvpers who like to play with friends, do exist, its not all sweaty premades slaughtering soloers) we are against something more "difficult" to the exclusion of all else. we are against story being held hostage behind significantly harder group dungeons and being told that we should just "find friends" in patronizing fashion, as if many of us haven't already done that and found experience of story in a group to STILL be lacking.
but I see now that i'm wasting my time on you.
Bye
Edited by TheFM on January 22, 2020 6:51PM2 -
Cryptor✭✭✭YES. We want a story mode.I would love story dungeons!Casually Xbox Guild: Discord Server - Recruiting Thread - Guild Website - My information: Instagram - Twitch Stream - Youtube Channel - Discord Server - Xbox GT: OGCryptor - Mastodon Profile4 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭YES. We want a story mode.What I want to see is more of a solo mode as we have through much of the base game where the computer fills in the remaining members of the group that we lack. There could be an assortment of class/faction NPCs that we could choose from to take the group to 4 members. While I might choose 1 tank, 1 healer, and another DPS to fill out my group you may wish to experiment with a different configuration. It would also be a great learning and testing environment. Want to check out how your skills in one role or another are working? Here is where you can do that without other players suffering the consequences of your mistakes. ZOS likes for players to try different roles and activities. This would be a good way to encourage running dungeons and other group activities. It would open more of the game to a large part of the player base thereby adding value to ESO. Imagine the financial windfall from new sales of dungeon DLCs, increased ESO+ membership, and crown store purchases.
Moreover this type approach would be in keeping with Matt's blueprint for the game. Ignore the threads that you see about how ESO is an RPG or MMO. Instead take it from the person who developed,built, and runs the game. This quote from Matt Frior is just as true today as it was in 2016:
ESO is not really a traditional MMO, so we don’t use that term much around the office – and it is this distinction that separates it from other games. If you want to play it solo, like you did with other Elder Scrolls games, you can do that. If you want to play it super-grindy with dungeons, Trials, and group bosses as the core of you experience, you can join up with others and do that too. It’s really up to you to figure out how you want to play it, as we don’t enforce a play style one way or the other. In fact, ESO has been super-successful at taking gamers not used to massive online games, introducing them to the concepts of group play by making it fun and optional, and turning them into online gamers.
I believe that such a solo mode for group content would be the easiest way to make the game as accessible to the many without placing any undue burden on the few. Instead of a cost it is a moneymaker. It holds true to both the history of the TES franchise and to the vision of the creator of ESO. I'm all for it.
That quote has been refuted 304929042 times, and the game is even labeled as an mmo. What you are describing is EXACTLY what they did in swtor and it ABSOLUTE BUTCHERED the dungeon population. No thanks, a solo version, without any form of reward would be ok, but absolutely nothing more.
and once again. NO. it did NOT. what butchered dungeon population was combination of lack of new raid content, uprisings being inferior to proper full length dungeons and most importantly - galactic command.
Yes, it did, what do you think the uprisings were? Solo friendly missions, and when they allowed you to take companions into flashpoints, everyone started doing that, instead of inviting other people. But yeah, lets just keep beating this dead horse because a skyrim expansion came out. You want a story mode, sure, a compromise would be story without ANY help or ANY rewards, I dont want it, but that would be a compromise.
I know you already said bye but.. this is just so hilariously wrong, i HAVE to respond to this. uprisings had no story. they had NO SOLO MODE. they were GROUP ONLY CONTENT. they were shorter DUNGEONS. yes some people did them with companions, THE SAME WAY THEY DID ORIGINAL DUNGEONS WITH COMPANIONS. and they have been doing that SINCE THE GAME WAS RELEASED. you could ALWAYS take companions into dungeons. this has NEVER changed. that was one of the selling points, that if you lost a group member, you weren't SoL, you could pull out companion and finish the dungeon, this was in game at LAUNCH.
you never actualy played SWTOR, have you...
and as many of us have said again and again. we are FINE with no rewards in solo dungeon. we want to do the STORY.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***10 -
TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NO. Do not add a story mode.What I want to see is more of a solo mode as we have through much of the base game where the computer fills in the remaining members of the group that we lack. There could be an assortment of class/faction NPCs that we could choose from to take the group to 4 members. While I might choose 1 tank, 1 healer, and another DPS to fill out my group you may wish to experiment with a different configuration. It would also be a great learning and testing environment. Want to check out how your skills in one role or another are working? Here is where you can do that without other players suffering the consequences of your mistakes. ZOS likes for players to try different roles and activities. This would be a good way to encourage running dungeons and other group activities. It would open more of the game to a large part of the player base thereby adding value to ESO. Imagine the financial windfall from new sales of dungeon DLCs, increased ESO+ membership, and crown store purchases.
Moreover this type approach would be in keeping with Matt's blueprint for the game. Ignore the threads that you see about how ESO is an RPG or MMO. Instead take it from the person who developed,built, and runs the game. This quote from Matt Frior is just as true today as it was in 2016:
ESO is not really a traditional MMO, so we don’t use that term much around the office – and it is this distinction that separates it from other games. If you want to play it solo, like you did with other Elder Scrolls games, you can do that. If you want to play it super-grindy with dungeons, Trials, and group bosses as the core of you experience, you can join up with others and do that too. It’s really up to you to figure out how you want to play it, as we don’t enforce a play style one way or the other. In fact, ESO has been super-successful at taking gamers not used to massive online games, introducing them to the concepts of group play by making it fun and optional, and turning them into online gamers.
I believe that such a solo mode for group content would be the easiest way to make the game as accessible to the many without placing any undue burden on the few. Instead of a cost it is a moneymaker. It holds true to both the history of the TES franchise and to the vision of the creator of ESO. I'm all for it.
That quote has been refuted 304929042 times, and the game is even labeled as an mmo. What you are describing is EXACTLY what they did in swtor and it ABSOLUTE BUTCHERED the dungeon population. No thanks, a solo version, without any form of reward would be ok, but absolutely nothing more.
and once again. NO. it did NOT. what butchered dungeon population was combination of lack of new raid content, uprisings being inferior to proper full length dungeons and most importantly - galactic command.
Yes, it did, what do you think the uprisings were? Solo friendly missions, and when they allowed you to take companions into flashpoints, everyone started doing that, instead of inviting other people. But yeah, lets just keep beating this dead horse because a skyrim expansion came out. You want a story mode, sure, a compromise would be story without ANY help or ANY rewards, I dont want it, but that would be a compromise.
I know you already said bye but.. this is just so hilariously wrong, i HAVE to respond to this. uprisings had no story. they had NO SOLO MODE. they were GROUP ONLY CONTENT. they were shorter DUNGEONS. yes some people did them with companions, THE SAME WAY THEY DID ORIGINAL DUNGEONS WITH COMPANIONS. and they have been doing that SINCE THE GAME WAS RELEASED. you could ALWAYS take companions into dungeons. this has NEVER changed. that was one of the selling points, that if you lost a group member, you weren't SoL, you could pull out companion and finish the dungeon, this was in game at LAUNCH.
you never actualy played SWTOR, have you...
and as many of us have said again and again. we are FINE with no rewards in solo dungeon. we want to do the STORY.
Missed the part where people have been saying they want all the rewards as well have you?
Did you miss where they made the companions so strong you could just walk and let them do everything for you? Yeah, but keep going, tell me how things work. Go on.Edited by TheFM on January 22, 2020 7:07PM2 -
Czekoludek✭✭✭✭✭
✭NO. Do not add a story mode.
I always vote FOR more difficult OPTION for overland, provided current overland remains as is and new option is added as its own set of shards. kinda like we used to have regular and vet zones. I also don't think it would be that much work to implement a zone wide battlespirit of sort. what i am against is making overland harder for everyone, REMOVING current difficulty. and the argument I've seen levied against me over. and over. and over. is that
1. it will split the player base (which is a silly notion, as we already have multiple shards in overland, we are not all playing in the same instance. don't beleive me? haven't you ever experienced being in the same zone as someone else but not seeing them, and when you group up, you get a prompt that they are in a different instance of that zone and would you like to travel to them now? if you say "no" a and go to their location - you will only see their nametag moving around but not them - cause they are in a different instance. ergo - having a separate vet instance would NOT split the playerbase any more than its already split via sharding. however - if its still some how an issue, having vet versions of delves and public dungeons and instanced story pieces is a compromise
2. just making things have more life and hit harder is not going to make it more fun. maybe. maybe not. depends on what your specific issues with overland are. for a lot of people its the fact that nothing can kill them, and things they attack - die to quickly. increasing health and damage of mobs? addresses THAT. with minimum effort, as all you need to do is adjust player scaling when they zone into vet overland. even traveling to it - can be easily solved but offering the same drop down menu we get right now when you are traveling to a wayshrine that is next to a house you own or when you are manually traveling to a group dungeon that has 1 and 2 variant.
I know I'm not the only one with similar opinions, far from it. like i said, the disagreement starts when people who want harder overland - want it harder for everyone. THEY are the ones often claiming that balancing 2 overlands is too much work, so ZoS should just make it harder for all.
and battlespirit sort of solution if you are zoning into a solo version of dungeon is a fast solution that will not require much balancing. removing certain mechanics that are group only (like having to step onto 2 plates that are in opposite corners of the room - at the same time) - will not change mechanics of actual fight, but it will be beneficial for people who solo content right now already, AND help with less then coordinated pugs.
Absolutely no one advocating for overland difficulty increase is asking it to be forced on everyone, it has always been we want 2 instances. You are basing everything on assumptions, I am basing on real world observations that were demonstrated on multiple games.
As for battle spirit, double no, this game already hand holds enough.
Solo story mode without any rewards - Yes
Anything else - No.
you are basing your ideas on extreme amount of confirmation bias coupled with cherry picking. becasue what you claim happened in those games vs what actualy happened? are very different things.
battlespirit as a simple to implement solution to solo dungeon difficulty adjustment - works perfectly fine. it could also incorporate changes in loot to drop in solo vs group version of a dungeon, much in the same way as the game is somehow capable of reading the difference between you entering vet and entering normal and changing the loot tables accordingly.
yes plenty of people asked for harder overland, period. so no, don't say that absolutely no one advocates for it, because YES. YES THEY DO.
Whatever you gotta tell yourself. Its always hilarious how the pve / story players are absolutely against anything more difficult or pvp related, but always demand more story, more pve, more more more, when most of the game is already doable by -everyone.
amazing. simply amazing.
we are not against anything more difficult or pvp related (and i'm in particular is pretty pissed off about upcoming BG change, because casual pvpers who like to play with friends, do exist, its not all sweaty premades slaughtering soloers) we are against something more "difficult" to the exclusion of all else. we are against story being held hostage behind significantly harder group dungeons and being told that we should just "find friends" in patronizing fashion, as if many of us haven't already done that and found experience of story in a group to STILL be lacking.
but I see now that i'm wasting my time on you.
Maybe you aren't against it but when ZoS introduced one slightly more difficult WB at last dlc, forum exploded with casual players who were crying how hard it is and how unfair it is to do stuff like that to the majority of players3 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭YES. We want a story mode.Czekoludek wrote: »
I always vote FOR more difficult OPTION for overland, provided current overland remains as is and new option is added as its own set of shards. kinda like we used to have regular and vet zones. I also don't think it would be that much work to implement a zone wide battlespirit of sort. what i am against is making overland harder for everyone, REMOVING current difficulty. and the argument I've seen levied against me over. and over. and over. is that
1. it will split the player base (which is a silly notion, as we already have multiple shards in overland, we are not all playing in the same instance. don't beleive me? haven't you ever experienced being in the same zone as someone else but not seeing them, and when you group up, you get a prompt that they are in a different instance of that zone and would you like to travel to them now? if you say "no" a and go to their location - you will only see their nametag moving around but not them - cause they are in a different instance. ergo - having a separate vet instance would NOT split the playerbase any more than its already split via sharding. however - if its still some how an issue, having vet versions of delves and public dungeons and instanced story pieces is a compromise
2. just making things have more life and hit harder is not going to make it more fun. maybe. maybe not. depends on what your specific issues with overland are. for a lot of people its the fact that nothing can kill them, and things they attack - die to quickly. increasing health and damage of mobs? addresses THAT. with minimum effort, as all you need to do is adjust player scaling when they zone into vet overland. even traveling to it - can be easily solved but offering the same drop down menu we get right now when you are traveling to a wayshrine that is next to a house you own or when you are manually traveling to a group dungeon that has 1 and 2 variant.
I know I'm not the only one with similar opinions, far from it. like i said, the disagreement starts when people who want harder overland - want it harder for everyone. THEY are the ones often claiming that balancing 2 overlands is too much work, so ZoS should just make it harder for all.
and battlespirit sort of solution if you are zoning into a solo version of dungeon is a fast solution that will not require much balancing. removing certain mechanics that are group only (like having to step onto 2 plates that are in opposite corners of the room - at the same time) - will not change mechanics of actual fight, but it will be beneficial for people who solo content right now already, AND help with less then coordinated pugs.
Absolutely no one advocating for overland difficulty increase is asking it to be forced on everyone, it has always been we want 2 instances. You are basing everything on assumptions, I am basing on real world observations that were demonstrated on multiple games.
As for battle spirit, double no, this game already hand holds enough.
Solo story mode without any rewards - Yes
Anything else - No.
you are basing your ideas on extreme amount of confirmation bias coupled with cherry picking. becasue what you claim happened in those games vs what actualy happened? are very different things.
battlespirit as a simple to implement solution to solo dungeon difficulty adjustment - works perfectly fine. it could also incorporate changes in loot to drop in solo vs group version of a dungeon, much in the same way as the game is somehow capable of reading the difference between you entering vet and entering normal and changing the loot tables accordingly.
yes plenty of people asked for harder overland, period. so no, don't say that absolutely no one advocates for it, because YES. YES THEY DO.
Whatever you gotta tell yourself. Its always hilarious how the pve / story players are absolutely against anything more difficult or pvp related, but always demand more story, more pve, more more more, when most of the game is already doable by -everyone.
amazing. simply amazing.
we are not against anything more difficult or pvp related (and i'm in particular is pretty pissed off about upcoming BG change, because casual pvpers who like to play with friends, do exist, its not all sweaty premades slaughtering soloers) we are against something more "difficult" to the exclusion of all else. we are against story being held hostage behind significantly harder group dungeons and being told that we should just "find friends" in patronizing fashion, as if many of us haven't already done that and found experience of story in a group to STILL be lacking.
but I see now that i'm wasting my time on you.
Maybe you aren't against it but when ZoS introduced one slightly more difficult WB at last dlc, forum exploded with casual players who were crying how hard it is and how unfair it is to do stuff like that to the majority of players
I don't remember there being particularly strong outcry, becasue I cannot even think of which specific boss you are talking about. there ARE a few Elsweyr bosses that are a little too prone to one shot mechanics which can be bothersome, but world bosses are not story. they are just.. bosses. group bosses.
something to consider. March of sacrifices and Moonhunter keep, IMO to this day are THE hardest dungeons in the game. that includes normal mode. and yes there was some outcry, but nothing on a level of what we got with wrathstone DLC and subsequent DLC's since. why you ask? because Wrathstone is when they started tying dungeons into main story if the expansions and story DLC's. when they have become a part of that story. which made them suddenly far less ignorable if story is your main focus. the outcry for solo dungeons didn't start getting momentum until they started doing "a year of story"dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***12 -
TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NO. Do not add a story mode.Czekoludek wrote: »
I always vote FOR more difficult OPTION for overland, provided current overland remains as is and new option is added as its own set of shards. kinda like we used to have regular and vet zones. I also don't think it would be that much work to implement a zone wide battlespirit of sort. what i am against is making overland harder for everyone, REMOVING current difficulty. and the argument I've seen levied against me over. and over. and over. is that
1. it will split the player base (which is a silly notion, as we already have multiple shards in overland, we are not all playing in the same instance. don't beleive me? haven't you ever experienced being in the same zone as someone else but not seeing them, and when you group up, you get a prompt that they are in a different instance of that zone and would you like to travel to them now? if you say "no" a and go to their location - you will only see their nametag moving around but not them - cause they are in a different instance. ergo - having a separate vet instance would NOT split the playerbase any more than its already split via sharding. however - if its still some how an issue, having vet versions of delves and public dungeons and instanced story pieces is a compromise
2. just making things have more life and hit harder is not going to make it more fun. maybe. maybe not. depends on what your specific issues with overland are. for a lot of people its the fact that nothing can kill them, and things they attack - die to quickly. increasing health and damage of mobs? addresses THAT. with minimum effort, as all you need to do is adjust player scaling when they zone into vet overland. even traveling to it - can be easily solved but offering the same drop down menu we get right now when you are traveling to a wayshrine that is next to a house you own or when you are manually traveling to a group dungeon that has 1 and 2 variant.
I know I'm not the only one with similar opinions, far from it. like i said, the disagreement starts when people who want harder overland - want it harder for everyone. THEY are the ones often claiming that balancing 2 overlands is too much work, so ZoS should just make it harder for all.
and battlespirit sort of solution if you are zoning into a solo version of dungeon is a fast solution that will not require much balancing. removing certain mechanics that are group only (like having to step onto 2 plates that are in opposite corners of the room - at the same time) - will not change mechanics of actual fight, but it will be beneficial for people who solo content right now already, AND help with less then coordinated pugs.
Absolutely no one advocating for overland difficulty increase is asking it to be forced on everyone, it has always been we want 2 instances. You are basing everything on assumptions, I am basing on real world observations that were demonstrated on multiple games.
As for battle spirit, double no, this game already hand holds enough.
Solo story mode without any rewards - Yes
Anything else - No.
you are basing your ideas on extreme amount of confirmation bias coupled with cherry picking. becasue what you claim happened in those games vs what actualy happened? are very different things.
battlespirit as a simple to implement solution to solo dungeon difficulty adjustment - works perfectly fine. it could also incorporate changes in loot to drop in solo vs group version of a dungeon, much in the same way as the game is somehow capable of reading the difference between you entering vet and entering normal and changing the loot tables accordingly.
yes plenty of people asked for harder overland, period. so no, don't say that absolutely no one advocates for it, because YES. YES THEY DO.
Whatever you gotta tell yourself. Its always hilarious how the pve / story players are absolutely against anything more difficult or pvp related, but always demand more story, more pve, more more more, when most of the game is already doable by -everyone.
amazing. simply amazing.
we are not against anything more difficult or pvp related (and i'm in particular is pretty pissed off about upcoming BG change, because casual pvpers who like to play with friends, do exist, its not all sweaty premades slaughtering soloers) we are against something more "difficult" to the exclusion of all else. we are against story being held hostage behind significantly harder group dungeons and being told that we should just "find friends" in patronizing fashion, as if many of us haven't already done that and found experience of story in a group to STILL be lacking.
but I see now that i'm wasting my time on you.
Maybe you aren't against it but when ZoS introduced one slightly more difficult WB at last dlc, forum exploded with casual players who were crying how hard it is and how unfair it is to do stuff like that to the majority of players
Exactly. If its not walk in the park easy, they wont ever be happy. Everything has to be doable alone, otherwise they wont be happy. Until the game is gutted down to novice difficulty on skyrim and everything is soloable, they will just demand more and more.Edited by TheFM on January 22, 2020 8:07PM3 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Other:What I want to see is more of a solo mode as we have through much of the base game where the computer fills in the remaining members of the group that we lack. There could be an assortment of class/faction NPCs that we could choose from to take the group to 4 members. While I might choose 1 tank, 1 healer, and another DPS to fill out my group you may wish to experiment with a different configuration. It would also be a great learning and testing environment. Want to check out how your skills in one role or another are working? Here is where you can do that without other players suffering the consequences of your mistakes. ZOS likes for players to try different roles and activities. This would be a good way to encourage running dungeons and other group activities. It would open more of the game to a large part of the player base thereby adding value to ESO. Imagine the financial windfall from new sales of dungeon DLCs, increased ESO+ membership, and crown store purchases.
Moreover this type approach would be in keeping with Matt's blueprint for the game. Ignore the threads that you see about how ESO is an RPG or MMO. Instead take it from the person who developed,built, and runs the game. This quote from Matt Frior is just as true today as it was in 2016:
ESO is not really a traditional MMO, so we don’t use that term much around the office – and it is this distinction that separates it from other games. If you want to play it solo, like you did with other Elder Scrolls games, you can do that. If you want to play it super-grindy with dungeons, Trials, and group bosses as the core of you experience, you can join up with others and do that too. It’s really up to you to figure out how you want to play it, as we don’t enforce a play style one way or the other. In fact, ESO has been super-successful at taking gamers not used to massive online games, introducing them to the concepts of group play by making it fun and optional, and turning them into online gamers.
I believe that such a solo mode for group content would be the easiest way to make the game as accessible to the many without placing any undue burden on the few. Instead of a cost it is a moneymaker. It holds true to both the history of the TES franchise and to the vision of the creator of ESO. I'm all for it.
That quote has been refuted 304929042 times, and the game is even labeled as an mmo. What you are describing is EXACTLY what they did in swtor and it ABSOLUTE BUTCHERED the dungeon population. No thanks, a solo version, without any form of reward would be ok, but absolutely nothing more.
You are wrong about SWTOR. It is very obvious that when a game is not adding new content, especially group content plus simplifies their character builds heavily they will lose population.
If you were a serious group player in SWTOR, probably even a serious player to begin with, then Keyboardninja will be a recognizable name as he was one of the top theorycrafters in SWTOR and top raider. One of his stated reasons for leaving the game was the group content release schedule because they were releasing the next raid one boss at a time over a year. That comment came in January 2017 and it was not until a couple months ago they released the raid that came after that. That is a pretty slow pace and is the reason a large number of raiders left the game.
Link to that thread. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=913165
Granted, it is just part of his reasoning but it all comes down to poor management and direction of group content in the game.Edited by idk on January 22, 2020 9:27PM9 -
D0PAMINE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NO. Do not add a story mode.What's wrong with soloing Normals or running with guildies?2 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭YES. We want a story mode.What's wrong with soloing Normals or running with guildies?
its been brought up, but let me explain again.
not everyone can solo regular normals, let alone DLC normals.
running with guildies is not ideal, because even guildies who are also in it for the story, have their own pace they prefer, so either they are waiting for you, or you are waiting for them, that is if one of you finishing the dialogue doesn't make npc sprint off to the next part of the dungeon, while you miss half the dialogue options becasue you weren't done talking to them yet.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***8 -
D0PAMINE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NO. Do not add a story mode.What's wrong with soloing Normals or running with guildies?
its been brought up, but let me explain again.
not everyone can solo regular normals, let alone DLC normals.
running with guildies is not ideal, because even guildies who are also in it for the story, have their own pace they prefer, so either they are waiting for you, or you are waiting for them, that is if one of you finishing the dialogue doesn't make npc sprint off to the next part of the dungeon, while you miss half the dialogue options becasue you weren't done talking to them yet.
Im usually the player that takes people into dungeons so they can do the quest and see the story. I understand what you are saying, but I have never had an issue taking people in to do the quests, it just never seemed like a big deal from my POV.
Edit: typoEdited by D0PAMINE on January 22, 2020 10:19PM3 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭YES. We want a story mode.What's wrong with soloing Normals or running with guildies?
its been brought up, but let me explain again.
not everyone can solo regular normals, let alone DLC normals.
running with guildies is not ideal, because even guildies who are also in it for the story, have their own pace they prefer, so either they are waiting for you, or you are waiting for them, that is if one of you finishing the dialogue doesn't make npc sprint off to the next part of the dungeon, while you miss half the dialogue options becasue you weren't done talking to them yet.
Im usually the player that takes people into dungeons so they can do the quest and see the story. I understand what you are saying, but I have never had an issue taking people in to do the quests, no it never seemed like a big deal from my POV.
how long do you usually wait for them to wonder around, read all the lore, talk to all the optional npc's, takes some screen shots? do you ever wonder if they feel uncomfortable making you wait for so long, already grateful that you are helping through through as it is, so they cut short their exploration, because they may feel its unfair to take up THAT much of your time?dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***10 -
D0PAMINE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NO. Do not add a story mode.What's wrong with soloing Normals or running with guildies?
its been brought up, but let me explain again.
not everyone can solo regular normals, let alone DLC normals.
running with guildies is not ideal, because even guildies who are also in it for the story, have their own pace they prefer, so either they are waiting for you, or you are waiting for them, that is if one of you finishing the dialogue doesn't make npc sprint off to the next part of the dungeon, while you miss half the dialogue options becasue you weren't done talking to them yet.
Im usually the player that takes people into dungeons so they can do the quest and see the story. I understand what you are saying, but I have never had an issue taking people in to do the quests, no it never seemed like a big deal from my POV.
how long do you usually wait for them to wonder around, read all the lore, talk to all the optional npc's, takes some screen shots? do you ever wonder if they feel uncomfortable making you wait for so long, already grateful that you are helping through through as it is, so they cut short their exploration, because they may feel its unfair to take up THAT much of your time?
I wait as long as it takes. It's easier to get everything done in one run versus re-running it over and over again for that missing book. I've met a lot of great people along the way.4 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭YES. We want a story mode.What's wrong with soloing Normals or running with guildies?
its been brought up, but let me explain again.
not everyone can solo regular normals, let alone DLC normals.
running with guildies is not ideal, because even guildies who are also in it for the story, have their own pace they prefer, so either they are waiting for you, or you are waiting for them, that is if one of you finishing the dialogue doesn't make npc sprint off to the next part of the dungeon, while you miss half the dialogue options becasue you weren't done talking to them yet.
Im usually the player that takes people into dungeons so they can do the quest and see the story. I understand what you are saying, but I have never had an issue taking people in to do the quests, no it never seemed like a big deal from my POV.
how long do you usually wait for them to wonder around, read all the lore, talk to all the optional npc's, takes some screen shots? do you ever wonder if they feel uncomfortable making you wait for so long, already grateful that you are helping through through as it is, so they cut short their exploration, because they may feel its unfair to take up THAT much of your time?
I wait as long as it takes. It's easier to get everything done in one run versus re-running it over and over again for that missing book. I've met a lot of great people along the way.
that.. is very awesome of you. but I still wonder how many people feel bad to keep asking. how many cut their exploration short without telling you because they don't want to impose on your generosity too much. even with full group of story seekers, how much gets adjusted to the pace of the others? how many people even if they could ask, don't get to - because their schedules do not align?
because gosh darn it, i LOVE my allegories, i'm going to use another one. lets go with cooking this time - its not going to be a perfect analogy, but hopeful will still get the idea across..
like... baking a cake. the kind that is based on meringue. now... you can make meringue by hand. its much easier with an electric mixer, but you CAN make it by hand. you want a this cake, so badly because its a delicious cake, so you use what you have. a smaller then usual whisk. you don't have the right size baking pan, so you improvise that too - you ask your next door neighbor for a loan of their cake pan instead. you beat that meringue by hand, until your wrist aches, you carefully fold in your dry ingredients. the flour is not quite right, but its still flour so you use it. your sugar is not fine enough, but you still get to those peaks more or less.
you improvise.
you end up making that cake and even tastes pretty good and it sags only a little in a middle. but its not exactly the cake you wanted because you had to improvise and your wrist aches and so the experience of enjoying that cake is just a tiny bit tainted. and you know you should be grateful to even be able to make and have that cake in a first place, but that tiny smidgen of resentment still lingers. " I wish a had a mixer. and fine sugar. and the right flour. i wish i didn't have to improvise and just relax into a process" and you feel bad for feeling that way, because hey, some people don't even have that much, some people don't have nice neighbours to ask for a cake pan they could use. or anything at all.
you know?
dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***8 -
D0PAMINE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NO. Do not add a story mode.What's wrong with soloing Normals or running with guildies?
its been brought up, but let me explain again.
not everyone can solo regular normals, let alone DLC normals.
running with guildies is not ideal, because even guildies who are also in it for the story, have their own pace they prefer, so either they are waiting for you, or you are waiting for them, that is if one of you finishing the dialogue doesn't make npc sprint off to the next part of the dungeon, while you miss half the dialogue options becasue you weren't done talking to them yet.
Im usually the player that takes people into dungeons so they can do the quest and see the story. I understand what you are saying, but I have never had an issue taking people in to do the quests, no it never seemed like a big deal from my POV.
how long do you usually wait for them to wonder around, read all the lore, talk to all the optional npc's, takes some screen shots? do you ever wonder if they feel uncomfortable making you wait for so long, already grateful that you are helping through through as it is, so they cut short their exploration, because they may feel its unfair to take up THAT much of your time?
I wait as long as it takes. It's easier to get everything done in one run versus re-running it over and over again for that missing book. I've met a lot of great people along the way.
that.. is very awesome of you. but I still wonder how many people feel bad to keep asking. how many cut their exploration short without telling you because they don't want to impose on your generosity too much. even with full group of story seekers, how much gets adjusted to the pace of the others? how many people even if they could ask, don't get to - because their schedules do not align?
because gosh darn it, i LOVE my allegories, i'm going to use another one. lets go with cooking this time - its not going to be a perfect analogy, but hopeful will still get the idea across..
like... baking a cake. the kind that is based on meringue. now... you can make meringue by hand. its much easier with an electric mixer, but you CAN make it by hand. you want a this cake, so badly because its a delicious cake, so you use what you have. a smaller then usual whisk. you don't have the right size baking pan, so you improvise that too - you ask your next door neighbor for a loan of their cake pan instead. you beat that meringue by hand, until your wrist aches, you carefully fold in your dry ingredients. the flour is not quite right, but its still flour so you use it. your sugar is not fine enough, but you still get to those peaks more or less.
you improvise.
you end up making that cake and even tastes pretty good and it sags only a little in a middle. but its not exactly the cake you wanted because you had to improvise and your wrist aches and so the experience of enjoying that cake is just a tiny bit tainted. and you know you should be grateful to even be able to make and have that cake in a first place, but that tiny smidgen of resentment still lingers. " I wish a had a mixer. and fine sugar. and the right flour. i wish i didn't have to improvise and just relax into a process" and you feel bad for feeling that way, because hey, some people don't even have that much, some people don't have nice neighbours to ask for a cake pan they could use. or anything at all.
you know?
Yeah I see what you mean. With the new Guild look up, it would be nice if there were more lore style guilds to do story mode runs. Im not sure I have ever seen one of those tbh. I do enjoy teaching mechanic to people though. Same way I was taught, with patience and fun.1 -
TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NO. Do not add a story mode.What's wrong with soloing Normals or running with guildies?
its been brought up, but let me explain again.
not everyone can solo regular normals, let alone DLC normals.
running with guildies is not ideal, because even guildies who are also in it for the story, have their own pace they prefer, so either they are waiting for you, or you are waiting for them, that is if one of you finishing the dialogue doesn't make npc sprint off to the next part of the dungeon, while you miss half the dialogue options becasue you weren't done talking to them yet.
Im usually the player that takes people into dungeons so they can do the quest and see the story. I understand what you are saying, but I have never had an issue taking people in to do the quests, no it never seemed like a big deal from my POV.
how long do you usually wait for them to wonder around, read all the lore, talk to all the optional npc's, takes some screen shots? do you ever wonder if they feel uncomfortable making you wait for so long, already grateful that you are helping through through as it is, so they cut short their exploration, because they may feel its unfair to take up THAT much of your time?What's wrong with soloing Normals or running with guildies?
its been brought up, but let me explain again.
not everyone can solo regular normals, let alone DLC normals.
running with guildies is not ideal, because even guildies who are also in it for the story, have their own pace they prefer, so either they are waiting for you, or you are waiting for them, that is if one of you finishing the dialogue doesn't make npc sprint off to the next part of the dungeon, while you miss half the dialogue options becasue you weren't done talking to them yet.
Im usually the player that takes people into dungeons so they can do the quest and see the story. I understand what you are saying, but I have never had an issue taking people in to do the quests, no it never seemed like a big deal from my POV.
how long do you usually wait for them to wonder around, read all the lore, talk to all the optional npc's, takes some screen shots? do you ever wonder if they feel uncomfortable making you wait for so long, already grateful that you are helping through through as it is, so they cut short their exploration, because they may feel its unfair to take up THAT much of your time?
I wait as long as it takes. It's easier to get everything done in one run versus re-running it over and over again for that missing book. I've met a lot of great people along the way.
that.. is very awesome of you. but I still wonder how many people feel bad to keep asking. how many cut their exploration short without telling you because they don't want to impose on your generosity too much. even with full group of story seekers, how much gets adjusted to the pace of the others? how many people even if they could ask, don't get to - because their schedules do not align?
because gosh darn it, i LOVE my allegories, i'm going to use another one. lets go with cooking this time - its not going to be a perfect analogy, but hopeful will still get the idea across..
like... baking a cake. the kind that is based on meringue. now... you can make meringue by hand. its much easier with an electric mixer, but you CAN make it by hand. you want a this cake, so badly because its a delicious cake, so you use what you have. a smaller then usual whisk. you don't have the right size baking pan, so you improvise that too - you ask your next door neighbor for a loan of their cake pan instead. you beat that meringue by hand, until your wrist aches, you carefully fold in your dry ingredients. the flour is not quite right, but its still flour so you use it. your sugar is not fine enough, but you still get to those peaks more or less.
you improvise.
you end up making that cake and even tastes pretty good and it sags only a little in a middle. but its not exactly the cake you wanted because you had to improvise and your wrist aches and so the experience of enjoying that cake is just a tiny bit tainted. and you know you should be grateful to even be able to make and have that cake in a first place, but that tiny smidgen of resentment still lingers. " I wish a had a mixer. and fine sugar. and the right flour. i wish i didn't have to improvise and just relax into a process" and you feel bad for feeling that way, because hey, some people don't even have that much, some people don't have nice neighbours to ask for a cake pan they could use. or anything at all.
you know?
While it would be great if everyone could get EXACTLY what they want, that is completely unrealistic for the developers. A compromise is already available, like was just mentioned, get a group of like minded people, clearly there are enough of you you could even ask here, and run it together, then you could do whatever you want without time constraints.2 -
BejaProphet✭✭✭✭✭
✭I can’t count how many times I’ve gone into some instance for some random thing and marveled at the beauty of the place. Even something like a prologue quest that I know I will never see this again. And they pour insane time into it.
So the notion that they can’t tweak existing resources to provide a story mode seems very unpersuasive.
Just my 2 cents.Royal Poet's Dungeon Tanking Guide https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/416797/royal-poets-guide-to-traditional-tanking-in-veteran-dungeons#latest11 -
D0PAMINE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NO. Do not add a story mode.What's wrong with soloing Normals or running with guildies?
its been brought up, but let me explain again.
not everyone can solo regular normals, let alone DLC normals.
running with guildies is not ideal, because even guildies who are also in it for the story, have their own pace they prefer, so either they are waiting for you, or you are waiting for them, that is if one of you finishing the dialogue doesn't make npc sprint off to the next part of the dungeon, while you miss half the dialogue options becasue you weren't done talking to them yet.
Im usually the player that takes people into dungeons so they can do the quest and see the story. I understand what you are saying, but I have never had an issue taking people in to do the quests, no it never seemed like a big deal from my POV.
how long do you usually wait for them to wonder around, read all the lore, talk to all the optional npc's, takes some screen shots? do you ever wonder if they feel uncomfortable making you wait for so long, already grateful that you are helping through through as it is, so they cut short their exploration, because they may feel its unfair to take up THAT much of your time?What's wrong with soloing Normals or running with guildies?
its been brought up, but let me explain again.
not everyone can solo regular normals, let alone DLC normals.
running with guildies is not ideal, because even guildies who are also in it for the story, have their own pace they prefer, so either they are waiting for you, or you are waiting for them, that is if one of you finishing the dialogue doesn't make npc sprint off to the next part of the dungeon, while you miss half the dialogue options becasue you weren't done talking to them yet.
Im usually the player that takes people into dungeons so they can do the quest and see the story. I understand what you are saying, but I have never had an issue taking people in to do the quests, no it never seemed like a big deal from my POV.
how long do you usually wait for them to wonder around, read all the lore, talk to all the optional npc's, takes some screen shots? do you ever wonder if they feel uncomfortable making you wait for so long, already grateful that you are helping through through as it is, so they cut short their exploration, because they may feel its unfair to take up THAT much of your time?
I wait as long as it takes. It's easier to get everything done in one run versus re-running it over and over again for that missing book. I've met a lot of great people along the way.
that.. is very awesome of you. but I still wonder how many people feel bad to keep asking. how many cut their exploration short without telling you because they don't want to impose on your generosity too much. even with full group of story seekers, how much gets adjusted to the pace of the others? how many people even if they could ask, don't get to - because their schedules do not align?
because gosh darn it, i LOVE my allegories, i'm going to use another one. lets go with cooking this time - its not going to be a perfect analogy, but hopeful will still get the idea across..
like... baking a cake. the kind that is based on meringue. now... you can make meringue by hand. its much easier with an electric mixer, but you CAN make it by hand. you want a this cake, so badly because its a delicious cake, so you use what you have. a smaller then usual whisk. you don't have the right size baking pan, so you improvise that too - you ask your next door neighbor for a loan of their cake pan instead. you beat that meringue by hand, until your wrist aches, you carefully fold in your dry ingredients. the flour is not quite right, but its still flour so you use it. your sugar is not fine enough, but you still get to those peaks more or less.
you improvise.
you end up making that cake and even tastes pretty good and it sags only a little in a middle. but its not exactly the cake you wanted because you had to improvise and your wrist aches and so the experience of enjoying that cake is just a tiny bit tainted. and you know you should be grateful to even be able to make and have that cake in a first place, but that tiny smidgen of resentment still lingers. " I wish a had a mixer. and fine sugar. and the right flour. i wish i didn't have to improvise and just relax into a process" and you feel bad for feeling that way, because hey, some people don't even have that much, some people don't have nice neighbours to ask for a cake pan they could use. or anything at all.
you know?
While it would be great if everyone could get EXACTLY what they want, that is completely unrealistic for the developers. A compromise is already available, like was just mentioned, get a group of like minded people, clearly there are enough of you you could even ask here, and run it together, then you could do whatever you want without time constraints.
I personally think that ZoS likes to leave things up to the players to set things up and run. Story mode Guilds doing runs may become popular. We would need well organized players who would be dedicated. Maybe some guilds even do this as an theme event, idk.1 -
D0PAMINE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NO. Do not add a story mode.BejaProphet wrote: »I can’t count how many times I’ve gone into some instance for some random thing and marveled at the beauty of the place. Even something like a prologue quest that I know I will never see this again. And they pour insane time into it.
So the notion that they can’t tweak existing resources to provide a story mode seems very unpersuasive.
Just my 2 cents.
Some look breathtaking if you can get outside the map too to view everything at once.1 -
TheImperfect✭✭✭✭✭
✭YES. We want a story mode.Yes but I think it should work the same way as current dungeons but with the people joining working through together slowly and time to do all dialogue, read all lore books, collect all loot and look around and listen to quests properly.
Being able to solo would also be a great option.4 -
TheImperfect✭✭✭✭✭
✭YES. We want a story mode.Adam_Chattaway wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Like those people said, who dislike idea about veteran version of overland...
"Why devs should spent resources on this" (c)
"i don't pvp. why should devs spend resources on this?"
"i don't do trials! no need to develop any!"
"i'm not interested in housing! remove the system altogether!"
"i can't stand seeing other people get what they want! the whole game should revolve around my interests only!"
Seriously think before you speak, Adding harder content is more of a challenge which brings more people together in a social MMO************** EXPERIENCE... Adding solo content like many mmos before did and failed and died leads to a closed off online game where no one speaks or wants to group because they dont need to group because everything is soloable. Storys are told in SOLO quests which this game already have a billion off what little group content 99% of players who level up get to do it group dungeons. Ima get piers morgan on you now...
OK I get what you are saying but does it matter if people all solo as long as they are enjoying themselves? People who like grouping can do that and soloers can solo. If content is available for both kind of players then everyone is happy.6 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Other:What's wrong with soloing Normals or running with guildies?
its been brought up, but let me explain again.
not everyone can solo regular normals, let alone DLC normals.
running with guildies is not ideal, because even guildies who are also in it for the story, have their own pace they prefer, so either they are waiting for you, or you are waiting for them, that is if one of you finishing the dialogue doesn't make npc sprint off to the next part of the dungeon, while you miss half the dialogue options becasue you weren't done talking to them yet.
Im usually the player that takes people into dungeons so they can do the quest and see the story. I understand what you are saying, but I have never had an issue taking people in to do the quests, no it never seemed like a big deal from my POV.
how long do you usually wait for them to wonder around, read all the lore, talk to all the optional npc's, takes some screen shots? do you ever wonder if they feel uncomfortable making you wait for so long, already grateful that you are helping through through as it is, so they cut short their exploration, because they may feel its unfair to take up THAT much of your time?
I wait as long as it takes. It's easier to get everything done in one run versus re-running it over and over again for that missing book. I've met a lot of great people along the way.
that.. is very awesome of you. but I still wonder how many people feel bad to keep asking. how many cut their exploration short without telling you because they don't want to impose on your generosity too much. even with full group of story seekers, how much gets adjusted to the pace of the others? how many people even if they could ask, don't get to - because their schedules do not align?
because gosh darn it, i LOVE my allegories, i'm going to use another one. lets go with cooking this time - its not going to be a perfect analogy, but hopeful will still get the idea across..
like... baking a cake. the kind that is based on meringue. now... you can make meringue by hand. its much easier with an electric mixer, but you CAN make it by hand. you want a this cake, so badly because its a delicious cake, so you use what you have. a smaller then usual whisk. you don't have the right size baking pan, so you improvise that too - you ask your next door neighbor for a loan of their cake pan instead. you beat that meringue by hand, until your wrist aches, you carefully fold in your dry ingredients. the flour is not quite right, but its still flour so you use it. your sugar is not fine enough, but you still get to those peaks more or less.
you improvise.
you end up making that cake and even tastes pretty good and it sags only a little in a middle. but its not exactly the cake you wanted because you had to improvise and your wrist aches and so the experience of enjoying that cake is just a tiny bit tainted. and you know you should be grateful to even be able to make and have that cake in a first place, but that tiny smidgen of resentment still lingers. " I wish a had a mixer. and fine sugar. and the right flour. i wish i didn't have to improvise and just relax into a process" and you feel bad for feeling that way, because hey, some people don't even have that much, some people don't have nice neighbours to ask for a cake pan they could use. or anything at all.
you know?
Yeah I see what you mean. With the new Guild look up, it would be nice if there were more lore style guilds to do story mode runs. Im not sure I have ever seen one of those tbh. I do enjoy teaching mechanic to people though. Same way I was taught, with patience and fun.
Any guild is good for doing runs for taking in the story. From competitive trial raiding guilds to more casual social guilds I have found it easy to put together runs for taking in the story. If someone says they have not seen the story yet we take it slow for them.1 -
lemonizzle✭✭✭✭YES. We want a story mode.Just make it so that there is no gimmicky pinning, wiping or oneshotting mechanics normal dlc that makes them unsoloable, I can handle the rest.
That said, it took many characters' first time to understand what's going on with the dungeon stories. And dare you oppose the will of the Eternal Speedrunner with your sightseeing tempo or re-reading dialogue, you will be struck with the wrath of a thousand "go go go"s and vote kicks.
Yes, even for slow guildie runs: "alright we take our time, but I have to go so please read faster". Then you have to ask around for half an hour for another fool to "stand around while you go afk at each npc with dialogue".2 -
TokenIntellect✭✭✭YES. We want a story mode."Find a story guild" is sure a favorite go-to that entirely ignores that many of us filthy casuals have busy lives that don't always line up with when those who would slow down and let us experience all the hard work that went into the story and setting are actually online.
But by far my favorite excuse for not having a story mode is, "Oh, I'm sure that someone will eventually post a YouTube video of the story. So you don't ever have to do a dungeon if you don't want to."
Can we find a guild? Possibly. Could we just watch a video? Sure. But that's not a winning strategy to building excitement int he expansion and growing the in-game community.
And with another year long story being even more integrated into dungeons I think it's time that ZOS figures out that "play as you like" or,
is completely incompatible with the sentence that came right before it:How you choose to experience Tamriel and the Dark Heart of Skyrim is up to you!
It's also clear to me from that little paragraph that ZOS is very aware of what they're doing integrating the story in the dungeon DLCs. They want to have it both ways: a deeply integrated story that you can totally skip.While Greymoor’s main story is part of the year-long tale, you don’t need to have completed the Harrowstorm DLC to follow and enjoy the adventure.
But I'd rather play the game than watch other people play it. And I would rather play it when it's convenient to me and in the way I'd like to play it than have to wait for and rely on the good will of guild mates.6 -
Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭YES. We want a story mode.You all know that ZOS extended the remove-from-instance timer because people couldn't even turn in their quests in time, right?
I think that's proof enough a solo mode is needed because more often than not, no one 's gonna wait for you for help you.
People who say "ask nicely", "most people let you", blah blah blah. I call BS.
And no one really has any real right to ask people to spend their time waiting on you. Story mode players want to take their time and explore. I'm not going to ask someone to twiddle their thumbs for a half hour while I have a good look at dungeons as vast as Depths of Malatar. Bet most of you don't even know there's a beach at the end.
I even know story players who wanted to read books in the proper context -- that is, when presented during a dungeon. And it has validity -- the devs put the book in the dungeon for a reason. For players who want to enjoy what the devs created -- SOLO MODE.Edited by Dusk_Coven on January 23, 2020 2:32AM11 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭YES. We want a story mode.What's wrong with soloing Normals or running with guildies?
its been brought up, but let me explain again.
not everyone can solo regular normals, let alone DLC normals.
running with guildies is not ideal, because even guildies who are also in it for the story, have their own pace they prefer, so either they are waiting for you, or you are waiting for them, that is if one of you finishing the dialogue doesn't make npc sprint off to the next part of the dungeon, while you miss half the dialogue options becasue you weren't done talking to them yet.
Im usually the player that takes people into dungeons so they can do the quest and see the story. I understand what you are saying, but I have never had an issue taking people in to do the quests, no it never seemed like a big deal from my POV.
how long do you usually wait for them to wonder around, read all the lore, talk to all the optional npc's, takes some screen shots? do you ever wonder if they feel uncomfortable making you wait for so long, already grateful that you are helping through through as it is, so they cut short their exploration, because they may feel its unfair to take up THAT much of your time?
I wait as long as it takes. It's easier to get everything done in one run versus re-running it over and over again for that missing book. I've met a lot of great people along the way.
that.. is very awesome of you. but I still wonder how many people feel bad to keep asking. how many cut their exploration short without telling you because they don't want to impose on your generosity too much. even with full group of story seekers, how much gets adjusted to the pace of the others? how many people even if they could ask, don't get to - because their schedules do not align?
because gosh darn it, i LOVE my allegories, i'm going to use another one. lets go with cooking this time - its not going to be a perfect analogy, but hopeful will still get the idea across..
like... baking a cake. the kind that is based on meringue. now... you can make meringue by hand. its much easier with an electric mixer, but you CAN make it by hand. you want a this cake, so badly because its a delicious cake, so you use what you have. a smaller then usual whisk. you don't have the right size baking pan, so you improvise that too - you ask your next door neighbor for a loan of their cake pan instead. you beat that meringue by hand, until your wrist aches, you carefully fold in your dry ingredients. the flour is not quite right, but its still flour so you use it. your sugar is not fine enough, but you still get to those peaks more or less.
you improvise.
you end up making that cake and even tastes pretty good and it sags only a little in a middle. but its not exactly the cake you wanted because you had to improvise and your wrist aches and so the experience of enjoying that cake is just a tiny bit tainted. and you know you should be grateful to even be able to make and have that cake in a first place, but that tiny smidgen of resentment still lingers. " I wish a had a mixer. and fine sugar. and the right flour. i wish i didn't have to improvise and just relax into a process" and you feel bad for feeling that way, because hey, some people don't even have that much, some people don't have nice neighbours to ask for a cake pan they could use. or anything at all.
you know?
Yeah I see what you mean. With the new Guild look up, it would be nice if there were more lore style guilds to do story mode runs. Im not sure I have ever seen one of those tbh. I do enjoy teaching mechanic to people though. Same way I was taught, with patience and fun.Dusk_Coven wrote: »You all know that ZOS extended the remove-from-instance timer because people couldn't even turn in their quests in time, right?
I think that's proof enough a solo mode is needed because more often than not, no one 's gonna wait for you for help you.
People who say "ask nicely", "most people let you", blah blah blah. I call BS.
And no one really has any real right to ask people to spend their time waiting on you. Story mode players want to take their time and explore. I'm not going to ask someone to twiddle their thumbs for a half hour while I have a good look at dungeons as vast as Depths of Malatar. Bet most of you don't even know there's a beach at the end.
I even know story players who wanted to read books in the proper context -- that is, when presented during a dungeon. And it has validity -- the devs put the book in the dungeon for a reason. For players who want to enjoy what the devs created -- SOLO MODE.
yes, yes, so much YES.
with lorebooks especially, not even the mage guild ones, the eidetic memory ones. (pardon the spelling) - they are usually part of the story you are going through and they flesh it out. sometimes those notes are short so you can skim through if you are fast enough reader. and sometimes.. they are page long diaries that tell you so much about the place you are currently exploring... and/or characters you are meeting there...
and with depth of malatar, between call backs to previous stories and just distinct personalities of the people you meet there and the fact that there are small, but still apparent differences in presentation depending on the order in which you do depth of malatar and Frostvault...
older dungeons have this as well... off the top of my head crucible (added dungeon name in editing, forgot to originally type it up for some reason), anyone ever try talking to npc's that you meet after you kill the last boss, and go through a tunnel behind her? did you KNOW there was a tunnel and that you could talk to npc's and even the ones you cannot talk to - bow to you as the new champion, as you pass them? and the ones that you can talk to - reveals some fascinating and horrifying things about what you just accomplished and what it will most likely mean for you.Edited by Linaleah on January 23, 2020 4:08AMdirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***5 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Yes. Although I don’t want a story mode, let people who want it have it.The way it is set up. "Play the way you want" philosophy that ZOS touts for ESO is not compatible with the current Season formula for two reasons- Half the Story is behind the Group DLC
- Half the story is catering to casual or beginner players
- Solo: You can play on easy and experience the story throughout the year (no dungeon sets)
- Group: harder difficulty, play with a group, and get more loot from the Dungeons & Main boss fights
This is especially the case if ZOS is going to integrate the DLC dungeons even more into the story.
Also, with Solo Story mode, ZOS would not have to make Group DLC Dungeons easier in order to cater to Casual Players.
On Group Mode they could make Dungeons even harder than they are now because it is aimed at players seeking Harder content and more reward.
They could make a Hard Mode for the Final Story Bosses that have mechanics on par with DLC dungeon bosses
It is a simple solutionEdited by Iccotak on January 23, 2020 3:17AM6 -
TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NO. Do not add a story mode.What's wrong with soloing Normals or running with guildies?
its been brought up, but let me explain again.
not everyone can solo regular normals, let alone DLC normals.
running with guildies is not ideal, because even guildies who are also in it for the story, have their own pace they prefer, so either they are waiting for you, or you are waiting for them, that is if one of you finishing the dialogue doesn't make npc sprint off to the next part of the dungeon, while you miss half the dialogue options becasue you weren't done talking to them yet.
Im usually the player that takes people into dungeons so they can do the quest and see the story. I understand what you are saying, but I have never had an issue taking people in to do the quests, no it never seemed like a big deal from my POV.
how long do you usually wait for them to wonder around, read all the lore, talk to all the optional npc's, takes some screen shots? do you ever wonder if they feel uncomfortable making you wait for so long, already grateful that you are helping through through as it is, so they cut short their exploration, because they may feel its unfair to take up THAT much of your time?What's wrong with soloing Normals or running with guildies?
its been brought up, but let me explain again.
not everyone can solo regular normals, let alone DLC normals.
running with guildies is not ideal, because even guildies who are also in it for the story, have their own pace they prefer, so either they are waiting for you, or you are waiting for them, that is if one of you finishing the dialogue doesn't make npc sprint off to the next part of the dungeon, while you miss half the dialogue options becasue you weren't done talking to them yet.
Im usually the player that takes people into dungeons so they can do the quest and see the story. I understand what you are saying, but I have never had an issue taking people in to do the quests, no it never seemed like a big deal from my POV.
how long do you usually wait for them to wonder around, read all the lore, talk to all the optional npc's, takes some screen shots? do you ever wonder if they feel uncomfortable making you wait for so long, already grateful that you are helping through through as it is, so they cut short their exploration, because they may feel its unfair to take up THAT much of your time?
I wait as long as it takes. It's easier to get everything done in one run versus re-running it over and over again for that missing book. I've met a lot of great people along the way.
that.. is very awesome of you. but I still wonder how many people feel bad to keep asking. how many cut their exploration short without telling you because they don't want to impose on your generosity too much. even with full group of story seekers, how much gets adjusted to the pace of the others? how many people even if they could ask, don't get to - because their schedules do not align?
because gosh darn it, i LOVE my allegories, i'm going to use another one. lets go with cooking this time - its not going to be a perfect analogy, but hopeful will still get the idea across..
like... baking a cake. the kind that is based on meringue. now... you can make meringue by hand. its much easier with an electric mixer, but you CAN make it by hand. you want a this cake, so badly because its a delicious cake, so you use what you have. a smaller then usual whisk. you don't have the right size baking pan, so you improvise that too - you ask your next door neighbor for a loan of their cake pan instead. you beat that meringue by hand, until your wrist aches, you carefully fold in your dry ingredients. the flour is not quite right, but its still flour so you use it. your sugar is not fine enough, but you still get to those peaks more or less.
you improvise.
you end up making that cake and even tastes pretty good and it sags only a little in a middle. but its not exactly the cake you wanted because you had to improvise and your wrist aches and so the experience of enjoying that cake is just a tiny bit tainted. and you know you should be grateful to even be able to make and have that cake in a first place, but that tiny smidgen of resentment still lingers. " I wish a had a mixer. and fine sugar. and the right flour. i wish i didn't have to improvise and just relax into a process" and you feel bad for feeling that way, because hey, some people don't even have that much, some people don't have nice neighbours to ask for a cake pan they could use. or anything at all.
you know?
While it would be great if everyone could get EXACTLY what they want, that is completely unrealistic for the developers. A compromise is already available, like was just mentioned, get a group of like minded people, clearly there are enough of you you could even ask here, and run it together, then you could do whatever you want without time constraints.
I personally think that ZoS likes to leave things up to the players to set things up and run. Story mode Guilds doing runs may become popular. We would need well organized players who would be dedicated. Maybe some guilds even do this as an theme event, idk.
I honestly dont see the issue. I have been able to do every new dungeon by simply walking up to the entrance and typing " looking for people to explore dungeon X " and get like 30 instant replies.Dusk_Coven wrote: »You all know that ZOS extended the remove-from-instance timer because people couldn't even turn in their quests in time, right?
I think that's proof enough a solo mode is needed because more often than not, no one 's gonna wait for you for help you.
People who say "ask nicely", "most people let you", blah blah blah. I call BS.
And no one really has any real right to ask people to spend their time waiting on you. Story mode players want to take their time and explore. I'm not going to ask someone to twiddle their thumbs for a half hour while I have a good look at dungeons as vast as Depths of Malatar. Bet most of you don't even know there's a beach at the end.
I even know story players who wanted to read books in the proper context -- that is, when presented during a dungeon. And it has validity -- the devs put the book in the dungeon for a reason. For players who want to enjoy what the devs created -- SOLO MODE.
Tell you what, you can have a solo mode when we get a vet overland mode.
Ergo, never.1 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭YES. We want a story mode.I would be happy for you to have an optional vet overland mode.
Optional being the operative word.5 -
TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NO. Do not add a story mode.Sylvermynx wrote: »I would be happy for you to have an optional vet overland mode.
Optional being the operative word.
When that happens, I would be ok with a story mode, until then, 100 percent no.1
