ecru wrote: »

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

Sordidfairytale wrote: »

Ritual heals certainly stack on live, if they don't stack on PTS that's a change.

No, they don't. Cleansing ritual has never ever stacked its heal.

Think of how broken 5 templars healing a team getting 5k hps in that massive radius would be. It's the same reason identical morphs of rapid regen don't stack.

Ritual does not apply a buff like rapid regen, it's a ground aoe. I can't think of any ground aoes from multiple players that don't apply a buff or debuff (like blood altar) that don't stack. It would be extremely unique if it didn't, so I really doubt this is the case. This would also mean that two templars in a trial group both couldn't heal with ritual, which I also doubt is the case.

maxjapank wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

He's correct. It's more than 20m actually, it's 24m pbaoe (12m in every direction).

He wasn't correct. And if he's going to use tool tips, then he should correctly use them when comparing skills so as to not inflate or cause confusion. But as many have pointed out, just using tool tips are also misleading. Combat is situational. There is nothing wrong with Retribution in it's current form. Anything less, and it might not get used.

Okay, so since ritual in it's current form is fine, are you in favor of every other ground aoe receiving heals and utility on par with ritual? And also having their radius at least doubled, if not tripled? Ritual of Retribution does six different separate things, while most ground aoes do one or two. What can we add to boneyard, while also tripling increasing it's radius? Right now it does damage in a small radius, provides a synergy, and applies fracture inside of it. That's three things. First, we can make sure everyone inside of the new gigantic radius of boneyard gets the synergy instead of just one person. We're still at three things though, and the synergy is only doing one thing. I guess the synergy can also remove all debuffs too? Seems fair. Next, we'll make it's healing output equal to it's damage, that's four. Minor protection while inside of it? Seems fair. Five. How about minor berserk for everyone inside of it too? There, now we have six.

What do you think of the new gigantic boneyard that gives everyone a damaging and purging synergy, applies major fracture and breach to everyone inside of it, heals equal to it's damage, and gives out minor protection and minor berserk? I'm fine with a slight cost increase if it does all of these things tbh.

Ffs test it, it doesn't.

Sigh, your really not getting this are ya. It went up 95% but yet from your live to pts its only up 75%. Why do you suppose that is?

Secondly on your test blockade did ~ the same dps but it also proc'd your enchant and gave a status effect. Much more raw damage potential for a cheaper skill. Again i dont think you follow. If you trully want to test. Test them seperately. 10 RoRs no light attacks. Stop get results. Reset and 10 ele blockades, no light attacks.

At this point i have given up on the pure peculiarness of this entire emotional tooltip warrioring that is going on here. You dont even know what point your trying to make other than RoR looks semi competitive now bcz everything else got nerfed.

humpalicous wrote: »

Damn, this is really bad that a healing ability deals the same amount of tooltip damage as a mag dd's primary aoe...

It doesnt. When tested properly.

Give me damage on my Refreshing Path again, this is ridiculous. It doesn't cover a 3rd of the area that Ritual does and doesn't purge negative effects nor offer a synergy. No one in PVE cares about going fast so the buff it gives is also useless! Dealing damage while healing is supposed to be nightblade's thing. Let Refreshing path do damage again!

Not even asking you to nerf Ritual, just asking for a bone on other classes.

ecru wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Sigh, your really not getting this are ya. It went up 95% but yet from your live to pts its only up 75%. Why do you suppose that is?

Secondly on your test blockade did ~ the same dps but it also proc'd your enchant and gave a status effect. Much more raw damage potential for a cheaper skill. Again i dont think you follow. If you trully want to test. Test them seperately. 10 RoRs no light attacks. Stop get results. Reset and 10 ele blockades, no light attacks.

At this point i have given up on the pure peculiarness of this entire emotional tooltip warrioring that is going on here. You dont even know what point your trying to make other than RoR looks semi competitive now bcz everything else got nerfed.

why don't you test something for once? everything you've posted so far has been flat out wrong, from the numbers you made up earlier, to thaum not effecting RoR, to the 51% increase that you somehow magically came up with. all wrong. install pts and come back with some data instead of wasting people's time (again) with this made-up nonsense.

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

Sordidfairytale wrote: »

Ritual heals certainly stack on live, if they don't stack on PTS that's a change.

No, they don't. Cleansing ritual has never ever stacked its heal.

Think of how broken 5 templars healing a team getting 5k hps in that massive radius would be. It's the same reason identical morphs of rapid regen don't stack.

Ritual does not apply a buff like rapid regen, it's a ground aoe. I can't think of any ground aoes from multiple players that don't apply a buff or debuff (like blood altar) that don't stack. It would be extremely unique if it didn't, so I really doubt this is the case. This would also mean that two templars in a trial group both couldn't heal with ritual, which I also doubt is the case.

maxjapank wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

He's correct. It's more than 20m actually, it's 24m pbaoe (12m in every direction).

He wasn't correct. And if he's going to use tool tips, then he should correctly use them when comparing skills so as to not inflate or cause confusion. But as many have pointed out, just using tool tips are also misleading. Combat is situational. There is nothing wrong with Retribution in it's current form. Anything less, and it might not get used.

Okay, so since ritual in it's current form is fine, are you in favor of every other ground aoe receiving heals and utility on par with ritual? And also having their radius at least doubled, if not tripled? Ritual of Retribution does six different separate things, while most ground aoes do one or two. What can we add to boneyard, while also tripling increasing it's radius? Right now it does damage in a small radius, provides a synergy, and applies fracture inside of it. That's three things. First, we can make sure everyone inside of the new gigantic radius of boneyard gets the synergy instead of just one person. We're still at three things though, and the synergy is only doing one thing. I guess the synergy can also remove all debuffs too? Seems fair. Next, we'll make it's healing output equal to it's damage, that's four. Minor protection while inside of it? Seems fair. Five. How about minor berserk for everyone inside of it too? There, now we have six.

What do you think of the new gigantic boneyard that gives everyone a damaging and purging synergy, applies major fracture and breach to everyone inside of it, heals equal to it's damage, and gives out minor protection and minor berserk? I'm fine with a slight cost increase if it does all of these things tbh.

Ffs test it, it doesn't.

i'll test it when i get a chance, but you're going to have to forgive me if i don't give you the benefit of the doubt considering what's been posted in this thread (see above), lol.

Are you serious? I cannot tell if this is satire or not. Why is your numbers from live to pts only a 75% difference instead of a 95% difference? Are you still not catching on? Just stop and think about it. Seriously think about it. Actually at this point sit this 1 out. If it hasnt sunk in by now i dont think it ever will.

I give up.....Yeah man you are absolutely right. 3 days into pts we need to buff nightblades lol bcz of (reaches for random idea) ballons. Bless your emotional self. Tooltip warrior for the nonesensical win. Not bcz of a solid argument but bcz of a iron will and strong desire to never listen to any counter argument at all.

I think some people aren’t smart enough to figure out how these things will play out.

7k HPS in a trial from one button press on a dps every 12 seconds means having 4-5 Templars can replace a healer. 4 Templars means 28k HPS total, 5 Templars means 35k HPS and is more then enough to replace a full time healer.

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

I think some people aren’t smart enough to figure out how these things will play out.

7k HPS in a trial from one button press on a dps every 12 seconds means having 4-5 Templars can replace a healer. 4 Templars means 28k HPS total, 5 Templars means 35k HPS and is more then enough to replace a full time healer.

Then why wasnt it ever used b4?

It was, in pve trial healers use it.

The healing value has gone up considerably.

I think the main issue I’m seeing is some people are looking at the ability from their small group or solo pvp perspective and ignoring the large group/trial perspective. My god you could even have templar zergs.

Best change I can think of to accommodate both groups: keep the damage as is, limit ritual of retribution to healing 1 person in the area. That will make small/solo pvp Templars happy and not break the game

Iskiab wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

I think some people aren’t smart enough to figure out how these things will play out.

7k HPS in a trial from one button press on a dps every 12 seconds means having 4-5 Templars can replace a healer. 4 Templars means 28k HPS total, 5 Templars means 35k HPS and is more then enough to replace a full time healer.

Then why wasnt it ever used b4?

It was, in pve trial healers use it.

The healing value has gone up considerably.

I think the main issue I’m seeing is some people are looking at the ability from their small group or solo pvp perspective and ignoring the large group/trial perspective. My god you could even have templar zergs.

Best change I can think of to accommodate both groups: keep the damage as is, limit ritual of retribution to healing 1 person in the area. That will make small/solo pvp Templars happy and not break the game

The heal does not stack with other rituals

ecru wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

The damage was not doubled lol. It is no longer effected by thaurmatage. It went up, but by a few hundred.

This thread has become pure absurdity.

i dunno what the point of posts like these are when anyone can just read the patch notes

Cleansing Ritual:

Increased the healing per tick of this ability and its morphs by approximately 95%.

i guess 95% isn't quite doubled, if you want to be pedantic.

Ritual of Retribution (morph): This morph no longer states it grants additional modifiers to the damage and healing, and instead deals damage for an identical coefficient of the heal.

have any of you actually tested any of these things on PTS before making these posts to make sure that the information you're posing is actually, you know, accurate, like i did before i made this thread? i wasn't entirely sure by the way the patch notes were worded about how the ability would work, so i actually tested it. i get the feeling that some of you haven't even read the patch notes at all, much less have pts installed.

i tested it against elemental blockade multiple times and over 12s ror was doing almost the exact same amount of damage as 12s blockade, +- 5-10% depending on crits, as the tooltips imply it would. my tooltips on pts are 75% higher than it is on live, not sure if there is some scaling change or if it's my gear (don't know how recent the copy is, didn't check), so it's extremely dishonest to say that it's just "a few hundred more".

But that doesnt proc enchants, account for status effects being applied, or take into account destro staff passives orrr cost efficiency as well as praticality of bar space.

Damage dealers

Ele weapons, solar barrage, jesus beam, inner light, blazing spear

Ele blockade, rune, harness magicka, flex, channeled acceleration

Sure i could put that as a flex spot but then im losing out on other valuable skills. Especially since degeneration and soul trap seem to be pretty decent.

And no its not dishonest to say its only a few hundred more. Thaurmatage used to effect the damage modifier for RoR and now it no longer grants additional modifiers to damage and healing. Idk what you put into thaurmatage but im around 44%. Soo on a 3k tooltip id imagine it went up hundreds taking into account losing atleast 44% on thaurmatage.

Anyways this entire post has reached a level of absurdity that i wasnt really prepared for. Its not a strong damage skill or a strong heal, or a strong snare but yeah it does have a good synergy. For a game thats about min/max it fails but for the sake of saving bar space for a not cheap inferior damage skill it has it perks (post the nerfs to everything else). Im glad you think RoR is most overloaded skill and yet in the few posts i have mentioned cloak you have been silent about that. Kinda an inconvenient truth but i digress....Anyways arguing with an emotional tooltip warrior is not a good look for me. I say good day to you.

i have no idea what you're even talking about anymore. whether thaum effects it or not, the tooltips are 75% higher on PTS. the way you phrase it sounds like it was nerfed. it's not "a few hundred more" unless your gear is so awful or you're so underleveled that it was only a few hundred in the first place.

the levels of dishonesty or flat out lying in this thread about how this ability works or was changed is really disappointing. make your point without obfuscating facts, spreading misinformation, or flat out making *** up or stop wasting everyone's time.

This is just drivel. Your tooltip is around 2.4k every 2 seconds after being buffed up 95%. Soo it went up ~1.1k. But lost out on thaurmatage multiplier which at minimum most people keep at 44% multiplier. Soo far to say it actually went up a max of 51% which is around 600. Ok kiddo play time is over. This forum posts has been long dead but viva the emotional tooltip warrior. At this point just post of a video of how you win with it or begone, back from whence you came! And thats that!

Which part of the tooltips on pts are 75% higher than they are on live didn't you understand? Was it the 75% part? You're literally pulling numbers out of your ass here. It isn't fair to say it went up 51% because you literally just made that up. It's obvious you haven't actually been on PTS, because if you had, you would know that Thaum does effect RoR, since it takes about ten seconds to take a few points out of the cp tree and look at a tooltip.

TBH this whole thread is really disappointing. Let's recap some of these galaxy brain takes.

Minno wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

You’re right that this is not balanced with Refreshing Path. Refreshing should be changed to be in line with Ritual of Retribution. It’s not like Magblades are at risk of being overpowered.

As far as intent, Brian Wheeler specifically mentioned that Ritual’s healing was buffed to help fill the void left by the springs change. It is probably needed, and unlikely to be reverted.

Should also be noted blockade is every second. His tooltip will be 2500 off blockade and doesn't account for the fact it will ignore 10% armor plus apply enchants/poisons. And don't forget 20% extra DMG on burning targets. So it's like 3kx8= 24000.

And it costs dirt. Rit cost was increased as well. Look at that 4k cost and DMG every 2s lol. 2400x6 = 14000.

"OvERlOadED".

Somehow this post got 15 "Agrees". How? Who knows. I'm guessing no one has PTS installed.

The implication here is that blockade will do 24,000 damage, while RoR will do 14k damage.

uh.. well, let's examine that.



Weird, they're almost exactly equal. I guess the question is if @Minno doesn't understand very basic math, or if he's being intentionally dishonest. Really makes you think.

maxjapank wrote: »

The op's comparison is silly. Ritual is every 2 secs. Healing and Blockade are every 1 sec. The healing of Retribution has always been higher than extended. Templars were given higher healing and dmg with Retribution in exchange for only cleansing 2 harmful effects instead of 5. Retribution is also half the duration of Extended. And both morphs have received a resource cost increase.

I know that some people have trouble with math, but I'm pretty sure 1+1=2. Three brain geniuses hit the Agree button here.

Lord_Eomer wrote: »

Ritual of Retribution damage and healing causing per 2 seconds and blockade is 1 second.

OP should read patch notes in detail.

I guess math really is harder than I realized. 1+1 still equals 2, despite this post. Another three very smart people with very large brains hit the Agree button here. TBH It's pretty hard to figure out if people are just being intentionally dishonest, or if they're genuine when they make these posts. Guess we'll never know

Man look at that 28% uptime on charged enchant. You should do the test with just RoR and with just blockade because that's how you truly compare the two abilities.

Minno wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

The damage was not doubled lol. It is no longer effected by thaurmatage. It went up, but by a few hundred.

This thread has become pure absurdity.

i dunno what the point of posts like these are when anyone can just read the patch notes

Cleansing Ritual:

Increased the healing per tick of this ability and its morphs by approximately 95%.

i guess 95% isn't quite doubled, if you want to be pedantic.

Ritual of Retribution (morph): This morph no longer states it grants additional modifiers to the damage and healing, and instead deals damage for an identical coefficient of the heal.

have any of you actually tested any of these things on PTS before making these posts to make sure that the information you're posing is actually, you know, accurate, like i did before i made this thread? i wasn't entirely sure by the way the patch notes were worded about how the ability would work, so i actually tested it. i get the feeling that some of you haven't even read the patch notes at all, much less have pts installed.

i tested it against elemental blockade multiple times and over 12s ror was doing almost the exact same amount of damage as 12s blockade, +- 5-10% depending on crits, as the tooltips imply it would. my tooltips on pts are 75% higher than it is on live, not sure if there is some scaling change or if it's my gear (don't know how recent the copy is, didn't check), so it's extremely dishonest to say that it's just "a few hundred more".

But that doesnt proc enchants, account for status effects being applied, or take into account destro staff passives orrr cost efficiency as well as praticality of bar space.

Damage dealers

Ele weapons, solar barrage, jesus beam, inner light, blazing spear

Ele blockade, rune, harness magicka, flex, channeled acceleration

Sure i could put that as a flex spot but then im losing out on other valuable skills. Especially since degeneration and soul trap seem to be pretty decent.

And no its not dishonest to say its only a few hundred more. Thaurmatage used to effect the damage modifier for RoR and now it no longer grants additional modifiers to damage and healing. Idk what you put into thaurmatage but im around 44%. Soo on a 3k tooltip id imagine it went up hundreds taking into account losing atleast 44% on thaurmatage.

Anyways this entire post has reached a level of absurdity that i wasnt really prepared for. Its not a strong damage skill or a strong heal, or a strong snare but yeah it does have a good synergy. For a game thats about min/max it fails but for the sake of saving bar space for a not cheap inferior damage skill it has it perks (post the nerfs to everything else). Im glad you think RoR is most overloaded skill and yet in the few posts i have mentioned cloak you have been silent about that. Kinda an inconvenient truth but i digress....Anyways arguing with an emotional tooltip warrior is not a good look for me. I say good day to you.

i have no idea what you're even talking about anymore. whether thaum effects it or not, the tooltips are 75% higher on PTS. the way you phrase it sounds like it was nerfed. it's not "a few hundred more" unless your gear is so awful or you're so underleveled that it was only a few hundred in the first place.

the levels of dishonesty or flat out lying in this thread about how this ability works or was changed is really disappointing. make your point without obfuscating facts, spreading misinformation, or flat out making *** up or stop wasting everyone's time.

This is just drivel. Your tooltip is around 2.4k every 2 seconds after being buffed up 95%. Soo it went up ~1.1k. But lost out on thaurmatage multiplier which at minimum most people keep at 44% multiplier. Soo far to say it actually went up a max of 51% which is around 600. Ok kiddo play time is over. This forum posts has been long dead but viva the emotional tooltip warrior. At this point just post of a video of how you win with it or begone, back from whence you came! And thats that!

Which part of the tooltips on pts are 75% higher than they are on live didn't you understand? Was it the 75% part? You're literally pulling numbers out of your ass here. It isn't fair to say it went up 51% because you literally just made that up. It's obvious you haven't actually been on PTS, because if you had, you would know that Thaum does effect RoR, since it takes about ten seconds to take a few points out of the cp tree and look at a tooltip.

TBH this whole thread is really disappointing. Let's recap some of these galaxy brain takes.

Minno wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

You’re right that this is not balanced with Refreshing Path. Refreshing should be changed to be in line with Ritual of Retribution. It’s not like Magblades are at risk of being overpowered.

As far as intent, Brian Wheeler specifically mentioned that Ritual’s healing was buffed to help fill the void left by the springs change. It is probably needed, and unlikely to be reverted.

Should also be noted blockade is every second. His tooltip will be 2500 off blockade and doesn't account for the fact it will ignore 10% armor plus apply enchants/poisons. And don't forget 20% extra DMG on burning targets. So it's like 3kx8= 24000.

And it costs dirt. Rit cost was increased as well. Look at that 4k cost and DMG every 2s lol. 2400x6 = 14000.

"OvERlOadED".

Somehow this post got 15 "Agrees". How? Who knows. I'm guessing no one has PTS installed.

The implication here is that blockade will do 24,000 damage, while RoR will do 14k damage.

uh.. well, let's examine that.



Weird, they're almost exactly equal. I guess the question is if @Minno doesn't understand very basic math, or if he's being intentionally dishonest. Really makes you think.

maxjapank wrote: »

The op's comparison is silly. Ritual is every 2 secs. Healing and Blockade are every 1 sec. The healing of Retribution has always been higher than extended. Templars were given higher healing and dmg with Retribution in exchange for only cleansing 2 harmful effects instead of 5. Retribution is also half the duration of Extended. And both morphs have received a resource cost increase.

I know that some people have trouble with math, but I'm pretty sure 1+1=2. Three brain geniuses hit the Agree button here.

Lord_Eomer wrote: »

Ritual of Retribution damage and healing causing per 2 seconds and blockade is 1 second.

OP should read patch notes in detail.

I guess math really is harder than I realized. 1+1 still equals 2, despite this post. Another three very smart people with very large brains hit the Agree button here. TBH It's pretty hard to figure out if people are just being intentionally dishonest, or if they're genuine when they make these posts. Guess we'll never know

Man look at that 28% uptime on charged enchant. You should do the test with just RoR and with just blockade because that's how you truly compare the two abilities.

Its not 28% uptime its 28% of the total DPS. The enchantment only did 268 DPS less than RoR which I think is a more interesting observation, them enchants. As well the enchantments obviously needed the Blockade to proc it but I am wondering, I thought the extra damage from Unstable would be more preferred or do people want the extra ease of rotation? Why not test RoR vs Unstable?

@Drdeath20 the Thaumaturge CP star increases DoTs to a maximum of 25%. If RoR isn't affected by thaum anymore, then it is losing up to that number, not 44% as you say. If you mean to say that you put 44 points into the star, then that's 17%.

Even with that clarification, the patch notes state this: This morph no longer states it grants additional modifiers to the damage and healing, and instead deals damage for an identical coefficient of the heal.

The old morph message is: Increases the healing and also damages enemies who stand in the area of effect.

The patch notes aren't stating that the damage isn't modified any further, they are stating that the morph message will tell the player that RoR will heal and damage for the same amount.

@Minno @ecru ZoS has stated that they are setting standards for SKILLS. Therefore, they are balancing the relative power of skills alone. They will probably look at passives, and interactions with said passives, at a later time. We should then look at how these skills relative power levels compare. Passives and other effects add flavor to the skills, but do not define them.

So looking at skills alone, RoR deals the same dps and hps as WoE and Healing Springs, respectively. It also gets the bonus of a small cleanse, a powerful cleanse synergy, is active for a longer duration, and a much larger area. The negatives are its higher cost and tick rate is every 2 seconds, meaning 6 ticks of damage and healing.

WoE can either deal more damage to burned targets (flame), slow and root chilled targets (frost) or set off balance concussed targets (lightning).

Healing springs restores a small amount of magicka on the first tick.

Does the higher cost balance out RoR compared to other skills with similar base effects (aoe dot/hot). Does the higher cost justify the strength of the heal, damage, cleanse, synergy, and size?

That is what your should be debating.

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Please compare side-by-side the Tooltip for RoR and Twilight Matriarch. I'll wait...

Legit.
Matriarch is op. It heals 2 targets akin to BoL, takes up two bar slots, has no aoe damage/heal component, and doesn't purge. And it can die.

...Wait, that's nothing like retribution...
Provides neither the utility or AoE component on heals or damage.
Huh.

BlackMadara wrote: »

@Drdeath20 the Thaumaturge CP star increases DoTs to a maximum of 25%. If RoR isn't affected by thaum anymore, then it is losing up to that number, not 44% as you say. If you mean to say that you put 44 points into the star, then that's 17%.

Even with that clarification, the patch notes state this: This morph no longer states it grants additional modifiers to the damage and healing, and instead deals damage for an identical coefficient of the heal.

The old morph message is: Increases the healing and also damages enemies who stand in the area of effect.

The patch notes aren't stating that the damage isn't modified any further, they are stating that the morph message will tell the player that RoR will heal and damage for the same amount.

@Minno @ecru ZoS has stated that they are setting standards for SKILLS. Therefore, they are balancing the relative power of skills alone. They will probably look at passives, and interactions with said passives, at a later time. We should then look at how these skills relative power levels compare. Passives and other effects add flavor to the skills, but do not define them.

So looking at skills alone, RoR deals the same dps and hps as WoE and Healing Springs, respectively. It also gets the bonus of a small cleanse, a powerful cleanse synergy, is active for a longer duration, and a much larger area. The negatives are its higher cost and tick rate is every 2 seconds, meaning 6 ticks of damage and healing.

WoE can either deal more damage to burned targets (flame), slow and root chilled targets (frost) or set off balance concussed targets (lightning).

Healing springs restores a small amount of magicka on the first tick.

Does the higher cost balance out RoR compared to other skills with similar base effects (aoe dot/hot). Does the higher cost justify the strength of the heal, damage, cleanse, synergy, and size?

That is what your should be debating.

Perhaps but keep in mind Templar has a healing tree, destro is intended for raw DMG. If the
Utility of RoR is to heal/provide synergy/snare, then the utility of blockade is to have 100% extra elemental status effect procs as well as proc enchants/poisons along with each type giving a different effect (and the 10% penetration).

Neither suggests RoR is overperforming. If it was doing 10-20% more DMG than you can say it's OP, but it's not and the ticks are less which also results in less crits.

ecru wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Sigh, your really not getting this are ya. It went up 95% but yet from your live to pts its only up 75%. Why do you suppose that is?

Secondly on your test blockade did ~ the same dps but it also proc'd your enchant and gave a status effect. Much more raw damage potential for a cheaper skill. Again i dont think you follow. If you trully want to test. Test them seperately. 10 RoRs no light attacks. Stop get results. Reset and 10 ele blockades, no light attacks.

At this point i have given up on the pure peculiarness of this entire emotional tooltip warrioring that is going on here. You dont even know what point your trying to make other than RoR looks semi competitive now bcz everything else got nerfed.

why don't you test something for once? everything you've posted so far has been flat out wrong, from the numbers you made up earlier, to thaum not effecting RoR, to the 51% increase that you somehow magically came up with. all wrong. install pts and come back with some data instead of wasting people's time (again) with this made-up nonsense.

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

Sordidfairytale wrote: »

Ritual heals certainly stack on live, if they don't stack on PTS that's a change.

No, they don't. Cleansing ritual has never ever stacked its heal.

Think of how broken 5 templars healing a team getting 5k hps in that massive radius would be. It's the same reason identical morphs of rapid regen don't stack.

Ritual does not apply a buff like rapid regen, it's a ground aoe. I can't think of any ground aoes from multiple players that don't apply a buff or debuff (like blood altar) that don't stack. It would be extremely unique if it didn't, so I really doubt this is the case. This would also mean that two templars in a trial group both couldn't heal with ritual, which I also doubt is the case.

maxjapank wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

He's correct. It's more than 20m actually, it's 24m pbaoe (12m in every direction).

He wasn't correct. And if he's going to use tool tips, then he should correctly use them when comparing skills so as to not inflate or cause confusion. But as many have pointed out, just using tool tips are also misleading. Combat is situational. There is nothing wrong with Retribution in it's current form. Anything less, and it might not get used.

Okay, so since ritual in it's current form is fine, are you in favor of every other ground aoe receiving heals and utility on par with ritual? And also having their radius at least doubled, if not tripled? Ritual of Retribution does six different separate things, while most ground aoes do one or two. What can we add to boneyard, while also tripling increasing it's radius? Right now it does damage in a small radius, provides a synergy, and applies fracture inside of it. That's three things. First, we can make sure everyone inside of the new gigantic radius of boneyard gets the synergy instead of just one person. We're still at three things though, and the synergy is only doing one thing. I guess the synergy can also remove all debuffs too? Seems fair. Next, we'll make it's healing output equal to it's damage, that's four. Minor protection while inside of it? Seems fair. Five. How about minor berserk for everyone inside of it too? There, now we have six.

What do you think of the new gigantic boneyard that gives everyone a damaging and purging synergy, applies major fracture and breach to everyone inside of it, heals equal to it's damage, and gives out minor protection and minor berserk? I'm fine with a slight cost increase if it does all of these things tbh.

Ffs test it, it doesn't.

i'll test it when i get a chance, but you're going to have to forgive me if i don't give you the benefit of the doubt considering what's been posted in this thread (see above), lol.

Im not forgiving anything when you make an un-informed post asking for a nerf. Stop.

The heals Do Not Stack. They have never in my experience. Played since console launch