Ritual of Retribution is doing as much damage as Elemental Blockade and also healing? huh?

Sandman929

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Costs less and heals more then cinder storm. And damages. And purifies. And 3x bigger. Balanced.

O.o

Cinder Storm is horrible, and has been forever. That should definitely be reworked, but nothing else should be dragged down to that level.

Iskiab

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

teladoy wrote: »

Did you realize how much it cost?

Cost is important yea, but I’d rather have abilities that do a lot and cost more because time has value as well.

If you have two abilities and one costs 1k and does 2k damage, another costs 5k and does 10k damage, guess which one’s better.

Besides ritual also has a longer duration then other ground effect abilities. Compared to other classes it’s actually cheaper because it doesn’t have to be cast as often.

This is completely false. In a perfect world, yes you are correct that it does not need to be cast as often based on duration. However, in reality (which is what majority of veteran players live in) Extended Rit. and Ritual of Ret. are never used for a full duration, let alone a fraction of the duration. Why? Great question! The answer is because ZOS has forced mobile combat on players, but subsequently forgot to address this with the Templar Class. Unless you are tanking on a stationary boss, you are moving. More often than not, you are moving far beyond the targeted area of your casted skill. Thus, you are forced to use resources (nearly 5K now) to recast this "OP" skill upon repositioning. For PVE content this is less daunting, but in a PVP environment you are recasting Ritual of Ret on average every 3-5 seconds (More often for Extended Rit. because of how easy it is and less expensive to reapply DoTs immediately after Cleansing the non-prioratized negative effects that can stack upward of 10-15 negative effects on one character within seconds.

For all you haters of Templars...seriously get over it...it's getting old and you're poking at a dead class that is constantly being phased out of ESO by ZOS. A lot of Templar's abilities have been gutten where passive and active buffs/debuffs have been reworked to be less effective or removed completely to be given to another class. An example is Major Mending being given to DK and Warden. Both new classes introduced to ESO have been designed exclusively to effectively replace the Templar Class - albeit they have not yet achieved this 100% because we adapt and find ways to remain relevant.

I’m not a Templar hater, and think Ritual should be stronger then other class based ground effects since the ability’s sort of class defining for Templars.

You have to put this change in context though. ZoS just went and nerfed similar abilities for other classes, then made this ability an exception to a rule they’ve applied to all other classes. Of course it’s going to irk people.

I mainly jump in these threads when I see people spouting nonsense to shoot down the ridiculous arguments people bring up. If you say it’s class defining for Templars and I’m cool with that, after all if all abilities were equal why would someone play a templar without cloak, streak, etc... try and pretend that this ability isn’t the strongest ground effect in game and of course people are going to jump in.

Lucky28

Iskiab wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

I don't know what people want from this skill. Its always been an AOE heal/damage. If it doesn't stack and I'm standing next to another Templar only one of our skills should do something to an enemy or for an ally? One of them is just a bright circle of nothing?

i want damage back on refreshing path, then everything will be right with the world.

Well twisting path’s damage was just reduced, it probably does less damage then RoR now so even if refreshing path did do damage the damage would likely be low.

I’d much rather they come up with something else to tack onto it.

back when refreshing path did do damage, it was low. it's always been low, but it was still useful in combination.

Jabbs_Giggity

Iskiab wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

teladoy wrote: »

Did you realize how much it cost?

Cost is important yea, but I’d rather have abilities that do a lot and cost more because time has value as well.

If you have two abilities and one costs 1k and does 2k damage, another costs 5k and does 10k damage, guess which one’s better.

Besides ritual also has a longer duration then other ground effect abilities. Compared to other classes it’s actually cheaper because it doesn’t have to be cast as often.

This is completely false. In a perfect world, yes you are correct that it does not need to be cast as often based on duration. However, in reality (which is what majority of veteran players live in) Extended Rit. and Ritual of Ret. are never used for a full duration, let alone a fraction of the duration. Why? Great question! The answer is because ZOS has forced mobile combat on players, but subsequently forgot to address this with the Templar Class. Unless you are tanking on a stationary boss, you are moving. More often than not, you are moving far beyond the targeted area of your casted skill. Thus, you are forced to use resources (nearly 5K now) to recast this "OP" skill upon repositioning. For PVE content this is less daunting, but in a PVP environment you are recasting Ritual of Ret on average every 3-5 seconds (More often for Extended Rit. because of how easy it is and less expensive to reapply DoTs immediately after Cleansing the non-prioratized negative effects that can stack upward of 10-15 negative effects on one character within seconds.

For all you haters of Templars...seriously get over it...it's getting old and you're poking at a dead class that is constantly being phased out of ESO by ZOS. A lot of Templar's abilities have been gutten where passive and active buffs/debuffs have been reworked to be less effective or removed completely to be given to another class. An example is Major Mending being given to DK and Warden. Both new classes introduced to ESO have been designed exclusively to effectively replace the Templar Class - albeit they have not yet achieved this 100% because we adapt and find ways to remain relevant.

I’m not a Templar hater, and think Ritual should be stronger then other class based ground effects since the ability’s sort of class defining for Templars.

You have to put this change in context though. ZoS just went and nerfed similar abilities for other classes, then made this ability an exception to a rule they’ve applied to all other classes. Of course it’s going to irk people.

I mainly jump in these threads when I see people spouting nonsense to shoot down the ridiculous arguments people bring up. Say it’s class defining for Templars and I’m cool for that, after all if all abilities were equal why would someone play a templar without cloak, streak, etc... try and pretend that this ability isn’t the strongest ground effect in game and of course people are going to jump in.

I will admit that, when used to its full potential, this skill is extremely overloaded. However, in practice this skill is only adventageous for the player in small doses at an extremely high cost because it is not used to its full potential due to how ZOS gravitates playerbase to a specific style of play. Magicka Templar has it easier with these skills, but try to defend a 5K Magicka dump on a Stamina Templar that has on average 10-12K Magicka...

This is a Class-defining skill. There aren't many left for the Templar that haven't already been gutted. Let's take a look at just some of the recent changes to Templar.
Puncturing Strikes > Camera panning fixed to compensate for a conal channel causing high miss rate after 4 years and some change, reverted come Scalebreaker. Major Evasion change made skill hit 15% less because of a fake AOE.
Spear Shards > Loses Stun, damage nerf, damage increase, damage nerf.
Sun Shield > Loss of Blinding Light change = dead skill for years.
Empowering Sweep > Lost Major Protection and compensated with Empower! Wow...the very last Class to be able to make effective use of LA increase...(weaving hard enough unless dropping class spammable which will happen because camera revert will make useless)
Dark Flare > Nerf, buff, nerf, buff, nerf, buff, HUGE NERF. Talk about rollercoaster ride...
Solar Barrage > Same as above^
Backlash > Damage stored is double mitigated and still bugs out
Eclipse > Unpleasant skill at best that grants CC Immun to target for free. Wondering how it's going to turn out next patch with changes.
Destruction > Same rollercoaster that Solar Flare (&Morphs) is on.
Rushed Ceremony > Magicka Increase, nerf, Magicka increase.
Cleansing Ritual > Magicka Increase, Magicka Increase....yes some nice buffs next patch with a magicka increase
Loss of Major Mending > Given to DK and Warden classes.

All of Templar's utility is Snare repeatedly coded into every utility ability. No CC's, no Roots, no Buffs/Debuffs.

I am not saying Templar is in a terrible place. I am saying that it is the most gutted Class Identity in ESO.

Other classes have their own defining utility abilites that are on the same level as Cleansing Ritual (even if people will not admit to it). NB has Cloak which allows them to not be targeted, Sorcs have Shield that can be stacked with other shields, DK's have Wings that allows them to take 50% less damage from projectiles and grant Snare Immunity, Wardens have reflect (and about every Major buff in game), not sure about Necro as I haven't bought Elsweyr or played the Class.

Templar Feedback thread has been plagued with painpoints since the Rep program began > None of them was Cleansing Ritual because it's one of those skills that you just slot for Nostalgia...in PVP sure you can cleanse a few DoT's but they get immediately reapplied for way less than you casted your cleanse for...
BTW very few of the issues with Templars had been addressed. The ones that were have been (will be) reverted or had been made useless due to the changes to other skills (Evasion).

Mayrael

What you temps need to understand is:
1. RoR is way above any AoE dot skill in the game now.
2. People are not mad because it's awesome skill now but because their similar awesome skills had been nerfed into uselessness while this one got buffed.
3. They are mad because templars pretend RoR is same as those nerfed skills when it's goes to power, which is an obvious lie.
4. People just want justice. Twisting Path or Cinder Storm are far behind this skill, if ZOS buffs them to comparable level DKs and NB won't call for nerfs to RoR. Simple as that.

No_Division

Mayrael wrote: »

What you temps need to understand is:
1. RoR is way above any AoE dot skill in the game now.
2. People are not mad because it's awesome skill now but because their similar awesome skills had been nerfed into uselessness while this one got buffed.
3. They are mad because templars pretend RoR is same as those nerfed skills when it's goes to power, which is an obvious lie.
4. People just want justice. Twisting Path or Cinder Storm are far behind this skill, if ZOS buffs them to comparable level DKs and NB won't call for nerfs to RoR. Simple as that.

so create a thread that says "buff twisting path/cinder storm to match RoR". Why all the passive aggressiveness? lol.

And even if they nerf RoR, not going to matter because extended is far superior in pvp and hardly any templars have the space for RoR in the first place lol.

idk

leepalmer95 wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

It's also healing for as much as the new Healing Springs, but I couldn't fit that into the title. Also my Ritual of Retribution isn't fully leveled yet so those aren't the final numbers, but it's close enough.

Can someone tell me what's going on here? It's like the old Refreshing Path that also did damage, but on steroids because it does five other things on top of that.

Here's a list of things this single aoe ability is doing. And for anyone who doesn't know, it's probably the largest ground aoe in the entire game, unless I'm forgetting something.

• Heals for as much as Healing Springs or Illustrious Healing, but over a much wider area
• Does as much damage as Elemental Blockade, but over a much wider area
• Removes two debuffs off of the caster
• Provides the caster with Minor Mending
• Snares everyone in a huge area over 12 seconds
• Provides everyone inside of the wide area a synergy that removes all debuffs

ZOS? Anyone? It was already overloaded before but now the damage and healing has been basically doubled? Not to mention that the now doubled heal will last for 18 seconds with the other morph and the circle/synergy will last for 24 seconds, while it removes 5 debuffs off of the caster. Both morphs are basically 2-3 abilities in one.

Compared to Refreshing Path, this does damage, heals for almost as much, snares, covers five times the area, removes debuffs, gives minor mending, and provides a synergy that heals and removes all debuffs? The only thing Refreshing Path does besides healing is provides Major Expedition.

??????????????????

wtf is going on???????

I mean ignoring the 20% dmg on blockable, ones 2.6k and one is 4.2k magicka.

Very good points. Comparing aspects of skills in a vacuume and ignoring important differences is not the way to make logical and rational comparisons.

idk

.

Aznarb

idk wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

It's also healing for as much as the new Healing Springs, but I couldn't fit that into the title. Also my Ritual of Retribution isn't fully leveled yet so those aren't the final numbers, but it's close enough.

Can someone tell me what's going on here? It's like the old Refreshing Path that also did damage, but on steroids because it does five other things on top of that.

Here's a list of things this single aoe ability is doing. And for anyone who doesn't know, it's probably the largest ground aoe in the entire game, unless I'm forgetting something.

• Heals for as much as Healing Springs or Illustrious Healing, but over a much wider area
• Does as much damage as Elemental Blockade, but over a much wider area
• Removes two debuffs off of the caster
• Provides the caster with Minor Mending
• Snares everyone in a huge area over 12 seconds
• Provides everyone inside of the wide area a synergy that removes all debuffs

ZOS? Anyone? It was already overloaded before but now the damage and healing has been basically doubled? Not to mention that the now doubled heal will last for 18 seconds with the other morph and the circle/synergy will last for 24 seconds, while it removes 5 debuffs off of the caster. Both morphs are basically 2-3 abilities in one.

Compared to Refreshing Path, this does damage, heals for almost as much, snares, covers five times the area, removes debuffs, gives minor mending, and provides a synergy that heals and removes all debuffs? The only thing Refreshing Path does besides healing is provides Major Expedition.

??????????????????

wtf is going on???????

I mean ignoring the 20% dmg on blockable, ones 2.6k and one is 4.2k magicka.

Very good points. Comparing aspects of skills in a vacuume and ignoring important differences is not the way to make logical and rational comparisons.

I've seen ppl of this thread saying RoR heal more than Illustrious healing so..
RoR tick each 2 sec, but hey, they'll not divide the value by 2 before make a comparison right ?
Would invalidate their point, so bad

On PTS RoR is actually the weakest of all ground healing effect hopefully he got some nice other effect, if not it would be just trash.
It's not with that than you gonna pass healing check.

Also if people would have made test by themselve on PTS using other thing than the stupid olo/aether set-up they would have seen than DK is gonna be one of the strongest healer after the patch.
And I'm currently waiting to see the change of Power Surge but it can be pretty big too, very curious.
Need to test NB too, the path power heal buff look awesome but the design of path make it harder to use than cinder storm.

Edit : replaced eruption by cinder storm

Iskiab

Aznarb wrote: »

idk wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

It's also healing for as much as the new Healing Springs, but I couldn't fit that into the title. Also my Ritual of Retribution isn't fully leveled yet so those aren't the final numbers, but it's close enough.

Can someone tell me what's going on here? It's like the old Refreshing Path that also did damage, but on steroids because it does five other things on top of that.

Here's a list of things this single aoe ability is doing. And for anyone who doesn't know, it's probably the largest ground aoe in the entire game, unless I'm forgetting something.

• Heals for as much as Healing Springs or Illustrious Healing, but over a much wider area
• Does as much damage as Elemental Blockade, but over a much wider area
• Removes two debuffs off of the caster
• Provides the caster with Minor Mending
• Snares everyone in a huge area over 12 seconds
• Provides everyone inside of the wide area a synergy that removes all debuffs

ZOS? Anyone? It was already overloaded before but now the damage and healing has been basically doubled? Not to mention that the now doubled heal will last for 18 seconds with the other morph and the circle/synergy will last for 24 seconds, while it removes 5 debuffs off of the caster. Both morphs are basically 2-3 abilities in one.

Compared to Refreshing Path, this does damage, heals for almost as much, snares, covers five times the area, removes debuffs, gives minor mending, and provides a synergy that heals and removes all debuffs? The only thing Refreshing Path does besides healing is provides Major Expedition.

??????????????????

wtf is going on???????

I mean ignoring the 20% dmg on blockable, ones 2.6k and one is 4.2k magicka.

Very good points. Comparing aspects of skills in a vacuume and ignoring important differences is not the way to make logical and rational comparisons.

I've seen ppl of this thread saying RoR heal more than Illustrious healing so..
RoR tick each 2 sec, but hey, they'll not divide the value by 2 before make a comparison right ?
Would invalidate their point, so bad

On PTS RoR is actually the weakest of all ground healing effect hopefully he got some nice other effect, if not it would be just trash.
It's not with that than you gonna pass healing check.

Also if people would have made test by themselve on PTS using other thing than the stupid olo/aether set-up they would have seen than DK is gonna be one of the strongest healer after the patch.
And I'm currently waiting to see the change of Power Surge but it can be pretty big too, very curious.
Need to test NB too, the path power heal buff look awesome but the design of path make it harder to use than eruption.

Is eruption the 5m circle effect? Unless there was something I missed, nothing was done to help DK. Values are meaningless when the area is so small.

Aznarb

Iskiab wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

idk wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

It's also healing for as much as the new Healing Springs, but I couldn't fit that into the title. Also my Ritual of Retribution isn't fully leveled yet so those aren't the final numbers, but it's close enough.

Can someone tell me what's going on here? It's like the old Refreshing Path that also did damage, but on steroids because it does five other things on top of that.

Here's a list of things this single aoe ability is doing. And for anyone who doesn't know, it's probably the largest ground aoe in the entire game, unless I'm forgetting something.

• Heals for as much as Healing Springs or Illustrious Healing, but over a much wider area
• Does as much damage as Elemental Blockade, but over a much wider area
• Removes two debuffs off of the caster
• Provides the caster with Minor Mending
• Snares everyone in a huge area over 12 seconds
• Provides everyone inside of the wide area a synergy that removes all debuffs

ZOS? Anyone? It was already overloaded before but now the damage and healing has been basically doubled? Not to mention that the now doubled heal will last for 18 seconds with the other morph and the circle/synergy will last for 24 seconds, while it removes 5 debuffs off of the caster. Both morphs are basically 2-3 abilities in one.

Compared to Refreshing Path, this does damage, heals for almost as much, snares, covers five times the area, removes debuffs, gives minor mending, and provides a synergy that heals and removes all debuffs? The only thing Refreshing Path does besides healing is provides Major Expedition.

??????????????????

wtf is going on???????

I mean ignoring the 20% dmg on blockable, ones 2.6k and one is 4.2k magicka.

Very good points. Comparing aspects of skills in a vacuume and ignoring important differences is not the way to make logical and rational comparisons.

I've seen ppl of this thread saying RoR heal more than Illustrious healing so..
RoR tick each 2 sec, but hey, they'll not divide the value by 2 before make a comparison right ?
Would invalidate their point, so bad

On PTS RoR is actually the weakest of all ground healing effect hopefully he got some nice other effect, if not it would be just trash.
It's not with that than you gonna pass healing check.

Also if people would have made test by themselve on PTS using other thing than the stupid olo/aether set-up they would have seen than DK is gonna be one of the strongest healer after the patch.
And I'm currently waiting to see the change of Power Surge but it can be pretty big too, very curious.
Need to test NB too, the path power heal buff look awesome but the design of path make it harder to use than eruption.

Is eruption the 5m circle effect? Unless there was something I missed, nothing was done to help DK. Values are meaningless when the area is so small.

Yup it this one, Cinder Storm morph, I've mistaken the name.
The aera is a bit tiny, but it's enough to use it.
If you've dps running around, even RoR is useless anyway.
In content where these kind of skill matter, people are gonna be stack, so it's not a problem.
I use this skill on my DK and never get issue with, Path from NB is way more boring to use.

My DK on PTS, self buffed heal for 3k/sec with cinder and illustrious get the same number, and if I throw an orb it's 3200/sec more. It's very strong.
They should lower the cost, add another effect though or enlarge it a bit (8m like grand healing would be enough)
But, yeah, this skill, and DK heal in general, are underestimate.


edit : typo

ecru

wondering which dev (or devs) mains a templar since this garbage is apparently gonna go live

when something is this out of step with their "vision" gets through you can be positive it's someone pushing their agenda for whatever class they play rather than actually trying to, you know, create any sort of balanced gameplay.

it's going to be really difficult to trust this dev team on any single issue past this point when they allow these things to slip through.

MLGProPlayer

ecru wrote: »

it's going to be really difficult to trust this dev team

We passed this point a LONG time ago.