Ritual of Retribution is doing as much damage as Elemental Blockade and also healing? huh?

Sandman929

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Vlad9425 wrote: »

Someone at ZOS really likes templars lol

Solar Barrage, blazing spear and every stam build in pvp getting free Major Expedition beg to differ.

Evasion, but yeah. Everyone gets it

Sanguinor2

Sandman929 wrote: »

Evasion, but yeah. Everyone gets it

Errrr yeah, obviously meant Evasion oops.

Sandman929

I don't know what people want from this skill. Its always been an AOE heal/damage. If it doesn't stack and I'm standing next to another Templar only one of our skills should do something to an enemy or for an ally? One of them is just a bright circle of nothing?

ecru

danno8 wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

The op's comparison is silly. Ritual is every 2 secs. Healing and Blockade are every 1 sec. The healing of Retribution has always been higher than extended. Templars were given higher healing and dmg with Retribution in exchange for only cleansing 2 harmful effects instead of 5. Retribution is also half the duration of Extended. And both morphs have received a resource cost increase.

ability a ticks 6 times for 200 damage over 12 seconds for a total of 1200 damage.
ability b ticks 12 times for 100 damage over 12 seconds for a total of 1200 damage.

Which ability is better? Don't forget to show your work!

ecru wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

The op's comparison is silly. Ritual is every 2 secs. Healing and Blockade are every 1 sec. The healing of Retribution has always been higher than extended. Templars were given higher healing and dmg with Retribution in exchange for only cleansing 2 harmful effects instead of 5. Retribution is also half the duration of Extended. And both morphs have received a resource cost increase.

ability a ticks 6 times for 200 damage over 12 seconds for a total of 1200 damage.
ability b ticks 12 times for 100 damage over 12 seconds for a total of 1200 damage.

Which ability is better? Don't forget to show your work!

The last time you posted on Templars it was about claiming how strong Dark Flare was with the major defile. You strongly supported the nerf to its damage because of the defile. However, players who play Templars every day spoke up about how the initial cast time was too long and it would never get used. You didn't listen. Guess what? I have yet to see Dark Flare being used since that patch went live. It's like a rare sight that your jaw drops when it happens. So I'm not sure how much players should pay attention to this thread.

That's because Templars are rarely seen outside of healing zerging because there mechanics they have on live don't support decent defense to justify the largely sustained pressure offense. Now with extra healing on extended ritual and living dark being proactive defense, Templar has been brought up to speed with other classes.

People like OP want to keep some classes down despite their intent on buffing underused classes/skills instead of huge nerfs (which is exactly this patch in a nutshell).

He's also a toolyip warrior, tried to prove that a litany of Templar abilities were overperforming even though they were balanced when looking at the full picture of basic combat situations.

#EndNoiseThreads2019

I see templars all the time in high mmr BGs, they are by far the most useful class to any team, magplars in particular, because (healing aside) of the utility they provide. I would rather have a magplar on my team than anything else and when I duo queue with one we usually win almost all of our BGs, and that will be even more true if this change to ritual goes through. In fact, I probably won't queue without that magplar because the only counter to the near permanent healing output and utility of a gigantic ritual will be, you guessed it, another ritual. It isn't fun playing against any team with such a huge advantage and because the ability is just so powerful/overloaded, the only real counter to it will be the same ability, balancing things out.

It's pretty clear you haven't experienced putting four dots onto a target and watched them be purged off when your target uses a synergy repeatedly, on multiple different targets because a templar put down a 24 second long ritual 16 seconds ago. For the cost of one ability, multiple people have up to six dots from myself and multiple debuffs (possibly including major defile and minor vuln from me) completely removed, and are also healed, and also receive resources back. The opportunity cost of the ability as it is on live is already completely out of line with basically anything else in the game if we compare it only to the cost of casting purge/efficient purge. How much damage can be mitigated by both the heal from the synergy and removing multiple dots and debuffs on multiple people? A lot. Already more than any other ability in the entire game, likely including ults. But we're also giving resources back because that's what every synergy does, giving value to any synergy regardless of what it is.

Once we include the healing over time, the possible damage, the minor mending, and the permanent snare, it starts to look really really stupid. Then we double the healing, or double the healing and the damage of the 12 second morph to be equal to current ground aoes that only do damage or only heal, and what do we get? Probably the most overloaded ability in the entire game, and here you are defending it.

Tooltips tell us what abilities have the potential to do, which is more useful than whatever it is you think you're contributing. Looking at a tooltip and learning that a ground aoe five times the size of blockade has the potential to do the same damage, and also learning that a ground aoe five times the size of healing springs has the potential to do the same amount of healing, makes it already seem a little suspect. Refreshing Path was nerfed for doing only these two things. Ritual of Retribution goes on to give minor mending, remove two debuffs, snare everyone in the largest ground aoe in the game, and provides your group with the best synergy in the game.

You haven't even come close to presenting a convincing argument as to why this an ability this overloaded should make it to the live servers besides "templars are bad cuz reasons" (they aren't), and haven't shown there to be any abilities even close to comparable in damage, healing, and utility in the entire game.

this isn't a good look, give it a rest

you write alot of fluff to say templars in high MMR bgs are basically healbots lol.

You also didnt show me any videos showing RoR overperforming, in a basic combat scenario. And If RoR is truely OP (TLDR; its not if you idiots stop standing in it lol), then it must be on par with matriach and thus templar buffed to compete with sorc.

But guess what, only an idiot runs RoR or is a pve templar, because they give up 5 debuff purge. If you like running against defiles, go ahead and run RoR. But those templars in that BG arent in a high MMR running a dmg templar and certainly aren't running much dmg to begin with lol. And the templars that do deal dmg, are likely the stamplar which DEFINITELY isnt running RoR.

Show me a vid, and I will shut up. Till then, stop only looking at the tooltips while creating these types of threads.

This post is about pvp and pve, not just pvp. Templars will likely be using ritual of retribution in pve, where it's still clearly doing more things at once than any ground aoe, while covering a much larger area. The heal was still doubled, and still lasts 18 seconds with the healing morph, and the snare/synergy/minor mending lasts 24 seconds. Both morphs of the ability are clearly overtuned/do too much at once.

We don't need videos to show that an ability like ritual is good. We already know it's good because we play the game (some of us, at least). We now know that it will be much, much better after the patch because the damage and healing was doubled. Even moreso because some of the best aoe heals and ground aoe damaging abilities were also nerfed. If your argument is somehow that ritual is not good in it's current iteration on the live servers, then you're going to have to provide a reason as to why I've never ran into a templar without it on their bar.

It's easy to imagine a hypothetical scenario where one ritual mitigates a metric *** ton of damage, but this isn't really hypothetical because it happens all the time in BGs. A Templar casts a ritual, and removes a large portion (or all) of the debuffs off of himself. He then gives himself minor mending. He then snares every single enemy in the area for 24 seconds. The circle continuously heals everyone inside of the gigantic area for the same as healing springs, only for 18 seconds after it's casted. On top of that, the other three teammates in his group are provided with a synergy that removes all debuffs off of them, heals them, and gives them back resources.

You're doing all of that for 4k magicka. Healing everyone for 18 seconds for the same as grand healing, getting minor mending, removing debuffs from yourself (potentially mitigating more than any heal would), snaring everyone else for 24 seconds, healing your teammates who use the synergy, removing all debuffs from your teammates who use the synergy, and giving resources back to your teammates who use the synergy.

Which ability does even close to all of that? If you put down refreshing path, it heals for about the same amount, covers a very tiny area in comparison, and gives people major expedition, and even then only for 12 seconds. If you put down twisting path, it just does damage instead. If you put down ritual of retribution, well, see above.

tbh it's hard to take anyone seriously who can't immediately see the problem here. are you just trolling now or what?

RoR is 12 seconds, Extended is 24. Not sure where the 18 second figure is coming from for any of this.

Yes the healing is about the same as Healing Springs now, but the cost is roughly double and potentially even more depending on how many people are in your Springs for the pulsing magicka return.

So the question is, for roughly double or more than double the cost what do you think the skill should do? Just the damage portion and synergy? Drop the passive that gives the Snare and minor Mending? No cleanse on RoR at all?

To answer my own question, with the given cost, and the fact that this is a class skill (which should imo be better than the weapon line alternatives), I think the skill should keep the damage and heal as PTS currently, keep the synergy and personal cleanse but the Sacred ground passive should lose the snare which I have never been a fan of and should change to "gaining minor Mending for 2/4 seconds whenever you cast a Restoring Light spell". This makes the Minor Mending less "free".

I guess part of this comes down to whether you think Templar healing skills should be above par than other alternatives or whether you believe that every class should be able to have equal potency in healing abilities. Of course if you think that Refreshing Path (your example) should be basically equal to ER or RoR, then most Templars might ask why they don't have the same speed or burst as NB.

Finally a reasonable post, I actually mostly agree with this. The snare IMO is what sets the ability so far over the top. The synergy is also really really good (I say it's the best in the game because I actually believe it's the best in the game) and I think it would be a little "less good" if it could only be used once by one person like other ground aoe synergies. Being able to drop a gigantic circle and remove all dots and debuffs off of your entire team plus everything else it does plus snare for 12-24 seconds is just completely insane and over the top. Also, considering the length of extended ritual, it's possible that everyone inside of it could get two synergies if they use the synergy right away, which is usually the case for me. If I have a templar on my team, I'm basically getting that synergy on cooldown because I always need the resources, and half the time it's a huge save that gets me back in the fight with more health/resources/less debuffs.

If you really think about how much damage one cast of extended ritual could mitigate when factoring in the ongoing heal and synergy that could be activated twice by each person, which could heal and give back resources twice per each cast, it's mind-blowingly huge compared to pretty much any other ability in the game.

The snare itself makes BGs miserable to play when multiple templars are around, especially with the way that it clips through walls sideways and up/down. It's bad enough that if I'm queueing and regularly queueing against the same templars (which is common at high mmr), I'll just stop queueing because they're all dropping a ritual on every fight which means being permanently snared no matter what. I know that someone will say jUsT UsE A sNArE rEmOvAl aBiLiTy but I think people who say this don't actually pvp, because if they did, they'd know that no snare removal that lasts the next 3 seconds is counter to a 24 second ground aoe that will always be present. When the snare is that large and that prevalent, there is no real counter. You just accept it as the way the BG will be and either play or leave the BG don't queue for awhile.

Seraphayel wrote: »

If AoE damage skills stack AoE healing skills have to stack, too.

The problem with stacking things is due to how effective they are in this game. AoE damage will be brought down considerably which is a good thing for both PvE and PvP.

What I’d rather want to see in PvP is healing and damaging being brought in line for AoE overall, e.g. ST damage and heals are stronger and everything AoE related will be way weaker. Like when it comes to AoE skills one target gets the full effect, the second target 66% and all other targets 33% (for healing and damage). This would make AoE way less prominent in PvP and punish stacking skills.

I agree with this too. There is definitely too much untargeted aoe garbage in a pvp setting and this doesn't help. As huge as ritual is, in a BG you're likely going to be damaging almost everyone involved in every fight (basically, both teams) with the aoe portion the entire time it's down. It's an expensive ability but that constant outgoing pressure along with heals will make it worth casting IMO, especially if you can stack a few of them from multiple templars. In a vacuum it might not be a lot of damage but with everything going on in a BG it matters, and all damage has to be healed at some point.

brandonv516

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

kalunte wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

A couple of points we’ve chosen not to focus on.

1. Ritual is a class skill. Imo it should be more unique and powerful than a weapon skill line.
2. Ritual costs about twice as much.

you didnt say that when refreshing path got nerfed, did you?

and now that turn evil does a way better job than mass hysteria i havent seen a word from you saying turn evil is too strong or mass hysteria too low.

again, only nightblade's skills are under the rule of "1 skill = 1 effect" while other classes can have skills that does:

1/ heal
2/ dmg
3/ purge x2
4/ minor mending on yourself
5/ 30% snare on enemies
6/ purging all and healing synergy..

with heal and dmg on the same lvl has abilities that only deals 1effect... xD

this is balance 5.1

Sure , let's look on this "1skill = 1 effect" rule.

Reapers mark :
1/debuff
2/heal
3/buff
4/crit damage
5/weapon crit
6/restoring resources.

looks like ONE EFFECT TO ME

#2, #3 are conditional
#5 only beneficial to stamina players
#6 isn't a thing - doesn't do damage so doesn't return stamina or magicka (if you are referring to returning health then refer to #2)

Bad example. Nice try.

So conditional effect is not an effect ? How convenient.
Only stamina players ? Who cares ? Its still an effect of the skill.
6# Is a thing. Because its a debuff for Incapacitating Strike.

Using the same logic i can say that damage effect is conditional if noone is around or inside the area. Healing also if you leave the area.

Bad logic. Nice try.

:Sigh:

#6 is not a thing

When an enemy dies within 2 seconds of being damage by one of your Assassination abilities, you restore 1876 Magicka or Stamina, whichever maximum is higher.

Mark does nothing to contribute to returning resources with the exception of health which is the same bullet point as #2

You're an idiot. Please come back when you decide not to be one.

#6 is a thing

Read my post again. Mark providing negative effect for for Incapacitating Strike:

Ravage an enemy with a swift strike, dealing 10166 Disease Damage and causing them to take 20% more damage from your attacks for 6 seconds. If cast with 120 or more Ultimate, the enemy is silenced for 3 seconds. While slotted you gain Reave, which restores [85 / 90 / 95 / 100] Magicka and Stamina when you deal damage with a Light or Heavy Attack on an enemy with a negative effect active on them.

You're an idiot. Please come back when you decide not to be one

You make yourself look like a fool with every reply.

Compare RoR to something like Refreshing Path.

Until then I'm done wasting breath on you as your comparison is terrible.

itscompton

Minno wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

OOJIMMY wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

I think some people aren’t smart enough to figure out how these things will play out.

7k HPS in a trial from one button press on a dps every 12 seconds means having 4-5 Templars can replace a healer. 4 Templars means 28k HPS total, 5 Templars means 35k HPS and is more then enough to replace a full time healer.

Then why wasnt it ever used b4?

It was, in pve trial healers use it.

The healing value has gone up considerably.

I think the main issue I’m seeing is some people are looking at the ability from their small group or solo pvp perspective and ignoring the large group/trial perspective. My god you could even have templar zergs.

Best change I can think of to accommodate both groups: keep the damage as is, limit ritual of retribution to healing 1 person in the area. That will make small/solo pvp Templars happy and not break the game

I main a stamplar and actually switched to ror over caltrops for pve. I lost a little dps but that healing brought a bit of utility.

Stibbons wrote: »

Templars needed buff after years.

Yea, I have no issue with Templars getting a buff, just not something that will break the game.

Maybe RoR keep the damage and heals 1-3 targets instead of 6. That would be powerful but not game breaking.

I agree on the stacking of heals. I consider that a bug and should be fixed.

Wow, it's hard to believe so many people that have been around for so long don't get how heal stacking actually works. RoR healing works just like Vigor does on live, you can be affected by your own instance and that of one other person. It's been that way for as long as I recall if not always. Any two stam players running the new echoing vigor, which will have a much higher HPS than RoR, will be able to stack the two heals from it together for half the cost of Ritual.

xeNNNNN

ecru wrote: »

It's also healing for as much as the new Healing Springs, but I couldn't fit that into the title. Also my Ritual of Retribution isn't fully leveled yet so those aren't the final numbers, but it's close enough.

Can someone tell me what's going on here? It's like the old Refreshing Path that also did damage, but on steroids because it does five other things on top of that.

Here's a list of things this single aoe ability is doing. And for anyone who doesn't know, it's probably the largest ground aoe in the entire game, unless I'm forgetting something.

• Heals for as much as Healing Springs or Illustrious Healing, but over a much wider area
• Does as much damage as Elemental Blockade, but over a much wider area
• Removes two debuffs off of the caster
• Provides the caster with Minor Mending
• Snares everyone in a huge area over 12 seconds
• Provides everyone inside of the wide area a synergy that removes all debuffs

ZOS? Anyone? It was already overloaded before but now the damage and healing has been basically doubled? Not to mention that the now doubled heal will last for 18 seconds with the other morph and the circle/synergy will last for 24 seconds, while it removes 5 debuffs off of the caster. Both morphs are basically 2-3 abilities in one.

Compared to Refreshing Path, this does damage, heals for almost as much, snares, covers five times the area, removes debuffs, gives minor mending, and provides a synergy that heals and removes all debuffs? The only thing Refreshing Path does besides healing is provides Major Expedition.

??????????????????

wtf is going on???????

Calm. Down.

Did a little bit of math (based off your numbers)

Blockade:
1287 + <20% increase from burning: 257.4> = 1544.4 x 12 (1 second per tick) = 18,532.8

Ritual:
2484 x 6 (Every 2 second tick of 12 seconds) = 14,904

So no with those current numbers that you have in the screens it is not doing as much as blockade. As far as it being overloaded though... yeah maybe but honestly if they didn't buff the healing at the very least nobody would run it next patch and just slow the more heal morph. Of course that doesn't make up for the fact that healing got hit hard across the board for all classes in regards to dedicated healers.

Iskiab

xeNNNNN wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

It's also healing for as much as the new Healing Springs, but I couldn't fit that into the title. Also my Ritual of Retribution isn't fully leveled yet so those aren't the final numbers, but it's close enough.

Can someone tell me what's going on here? It's like the old Refreshing Path that also did damage, but on steroids because it does five other things on top of that.

Here's a list of things this single aoe ability is doing. And for anyone who doesn't know, it's probably the largest ground aoe in the entire game, unless I'm forgetting something.

• Heals for as much as Healing Springs or Illustrious Healing, but over a much wider area
• Does as much damage as Elemental Blockade, but over a much wider area
• Removes two debuffs off of the caster
• Provides the caster with Minor Mending
• Snares everyone in a huge area over 12 seconds
• Provides everyone inside of the wide area a synergy that removes all debuffs

ZOS? Anyone? It was already overloaded before but now the damage and healing has been basically doubled? Not to mention that the now doubled heal will last for 18 seconds with the other morph and the circle/synergy will last for 24 seconds, while it removes 5 debuffs off of the caster. Both morphs are basically 2-3 abilities in one.

Compared to Refreshing Path, this does damage, heals for almost as much, snares, covers five times the area, removes debuffs, gives minor mending, and provides a synergy that heals and removes all debuffs? The only thing Refreshing Path does besides healing is provides Major Expedition.

??????????????????

wtf is going on???????

Calm. Down.

Did a little bit of math (based off your numbers)

Blockade:
1287 + <20% increase: 257.4> = 1544.4 x 12 (1 second per tick) = 18,532.8

Ritual:
2484 x 6 (Every 2 second tick of 12 seconds) = 14,904

So no with those current numbers that you have in the screens it is not doing as much as blockade. As far as it being overloaded though... yeah maybe but honestly if they didn't buff the healing at the very least nobody would run it next patch and just slow the more heal morph. Of course that doesn't make up for the fact that healing got hit hard across the board for all classes in regards to dedicated healers.

Huh? What math’s required, the OP linked the tooltips directly from PTS.

ecru

xeNNNNN wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

It's also healing for as much as the new Healing Springs, but I couldn't fit that into the title. Also my Ritual of Retribution isn't fully leveled yet so those aren't the final numbers, but it's close enough.

Can someone tell me what's going on here? It's like the old Refreshing Path that also did damage, but on steroids because it does five other things on top of that.

Here's a list of things this single aoe ability is doing. And for anyone who doesn't know, it's probably the largest ground aoe in the entire game, unless I'm forgetting something.

• Heals for as much as Healing Springs or Illustrious Healing, but over a much wider area
• Does as much damage as Elemental Blockade, but over a much wider area
• Removes two debuffs off of the caster
• Provides the caster with Minor Mending
• Snares everyone in a huge area over 12 seconds
• Provides everyone inside of the wide area a synergy that removes all debuffs

ZOS? Anyone? It was already overloaded before but now the damage and healing has been basically doubled? Not to mention that the now doubled heal will last for 18 seconds with the other morph and the circle/synergy will last for 24 seconds, while it removes 5 debuffs off of the caster. Both morphs are basically 2-3 abilities in one.

Compared to Refreshing Path, this does damage, heals for almost as much, snares, covers five times the area, removes debuffs, gives minor mending, and provides a synergy that heals and removes all debuffs? The only thing Refreshing Path does besides healing is provides Major Expedition.

??????????????????

wtf is going on???????

Calm. Down.

Did a little bit of math (based off your numbers)

Blockade:
1287 + <20% increase from burning: 257.4> = 1544.4 x 12 (1 second per tick) = 18,532.8

Ritual:
2484 x 6 (Every 2 second tick of 12 seconds) = 14,904

So no with those current numbers that you have in the screens it is not doing as much as blockade. As far as it being overloaded though... yeah maybe but honestly if they didn't buff the healing at the very least nobody would run it next patch and just slow the more heal morph. Of course that doesn't make up for the fact that healing got hit hard across the board for all classes in regards to dedicated healers.

ritual ticks 7 times, blockade ticks 13.

7 * 2484 = 19,936
13 * 1544 = 17,388

blockade is more, but only slightly with burning. frost/shock will actually be less.

Blue_Radium

Honest, 11 stamplar and 1 tank seems like it'd be super effective. It does scale off of highest stat right? 11 giant synergy + healing + damage + purge rings will beat anything other than 1 shot mechanics. Can't imagine a tank needing more heals than the 11 rings. Stacking shards in group as well will feed Lok uptime seamlessly. Also, could have a genuine solar prison ult rotation with 100% major maim uptime, for those extra damage-ee fights. Maybe toss in a different class or 2 for unique buff contribution.

Iskiab

Blue_Radium wrote: »

Honest, 11 stamplar and 1 tank seems like it'd be super effective. It does scale off of highest stat right? 11 giant synergy + healing + damage + purge rings will beat anything other than 1 shot mechanics. Can't imagine a tank needing more heals than the 11 rings. Stacking shards in group as well will feed Lok uptime seamlessly. Also, could have a genuine solar prison ult rotation with 100% major maim uptime, for those extra damage-ee fights. Maybe toss in a different class or 2 for unique buff contribution.

Yea, this might shape up to be patch of the templar.

Joosef_Kivikilpi

ecru wrote: »

It's also healing for as much as the new Healing Springs, but I couldn't fit that into the title. Also my Ritual of Retribution isn't fully leveled yet so those aren't the final numbers, but it's close enough.

Can someone tell me what's going on here? It's like the old Refreshing Path that also did damage, but on steroids because it does five other things on top of that.

Here's a list of things this single aoe ability is doing. And for anyone who doesn't know, it's probably the largest ground aoe in the entire game, unless I'm forgetting something.

• Heals for as much as Healing Springs or Illustrious Healing, but over a much wider area
• Does as much damage as Elemental Blockade, but over a much wider area
• Removes two debuffs off of the caster
• Provides the caster with Minor Mending
• Snares everyone in a huge area over 12 seconds
• Provides everyone inside of the wide area a synergy that removes all debuffs

ZOS? Anyone? It was already overloaded before but now the damage and healing has been basically doubled? Not to mention that the now doubled heal will last for 18 seconds with the other morph and the circle/synergy will last for 24 seconds, while it removes 5 debuffs off of the caster. Both morphs are basically 2-3 abilities in one.

Compared to Refreshing Path, this does damage, heals for almost as much, snares, covers five times the area, removes debuffs, gives minor mending, and provides a synergy that heals and removes all debuffs? The only thing Refreshing Path does besides healing is provides Major Expedition.

??????????????????

wtf is going on???????

So glad someone else is finally noticing and pointing out how op Templar abilities are in comparison to every other ability. I have just gotten so tired of writing them. I write to support you and your claim though, man. Hope they fix or actually instead but abilities up to be standard with a cool ability.

Mayrael

Pff all these magplars defending their new crutch will change their mind when they will fight other magplars all the time. It's fun to use but not when used against you by a better player
Super Happy Innovative Truly Talented Youthful Devs nerf one side to the ground while buffing the others into the sky, nothing changed since launch.

Hexquisite

Currently on live I only know of one Templar who uses RoR--and there is a whole thread of other templars telling him to drop it because it sucks.

The new RoR? Something had to be done to it, to get people to take that morph. Personallly, I will still keep the other morph, cleansing 5 harmful effects on myself is just too valuable--whether I am solo or in group, playing healer or dps role.

EtTuBrutus

Hexquisite wrote: »

Currently on live I only know of one Templar who uses RoR--and there is a whole thread of other templars telling him to drop it because it sucks.

The new RoR? Something had to be done to it, to get people to take that morph. Personallly, I will still keep the other morph, cleansing 5 harmful effects on myself is just too valuable--whether I am solo or in group, playing healer or dps role.

Extended for life. Ror is for pve.

Lucky28

Sandman929 wrote: »

I don't know what people want from this skill. Its always been an AOE heal/damage. If it doesn't stack and I'm standing next to another Templar only one of our skills should do something to an enemy or for an ally? One of them is just a bright circle of nothing?

i want damage back on refreshing path, then everything will be right with the world.

Kuratius

Unlike Blockade, RoR doesn't trigger enchants.

MaxJrFTW

Blockade is applying status effects, dealing extra dmg to people with status effects on them, off-balance(10% more dmg), triggering passives and enchantments, and costs half as much. Let's not be biased...

Also, very few people use ritual of retribution because the trade off isn't worth it more often than not.

I hope this is a pve discussion too. 2.4k magic dmg every 2 secs in pvp translates to about 200-300 dps.

evoniee

devs loses their mind LMAO.
templar literally the bullsh#t class after magsorc in live and they keep buffing it.

Saril_Durzam

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Arciris wrote: »

So, can the Matriarch get it's damage back too please?

Nah super high free dmg isn't good.

Free? i wouldnt call 2 skill slots "free".

Iskiab

Lucky28 wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

I don't know what people want from this skill. Its always been an AOE heal/damage. If it doesn't stack and I'm standing next to another Templar only one of our skills should do something to an enemy or for an ally? One of them is just a bright circle of nothing?

i want damage back on refreshing path, then everything will be right with the world.

Well twisting path’s damage was just reduced, it probably does less damage then RoR now so even if refreshing path did do damage the damage would likely be low.

I’d much rather they come up with something else to tack onto it.

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Blockade is applying status effects, dealing extra dmg to people with status effects on them, off-balance(10% more dmg), triggering passives and enchantments, and costs half as much. Let's not be biased...

Also, very few people use ritual of retribution because the trade off isn't worth it more often than not.

I hope this is a pve discussion too. 2.4k magic dmg every 2 secs in pvp translates to about 200-300 dps.

Well that’s also only part of the story. Ritual is also at least 4x the area of any other classes ground effects, cleanses two effects, gives minor mending, snares everyone in the area and heals.

Considering other classes had their ground effects nerfed or are too small to be useful, of course this is going to be the reaction after nerfing aoe healing. It’s also more like 400 dps.

Especially refreshing path. Refreshing Path just had its damage removed, and NBs were given an audit and the devs removed multiple effects from NB abilities to stop ‘overlap’ and abilities being overloaded. Less then a year later they buff RoR to be stronger then refreshing path ever was which has way more utility then refreshing path ever did.

teladoy

Did you realize how much it cost?

No_Division

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Blockade is applying status effects, dealing extra dmg to people with status effects on them, off-balance(10% more dmg), triggering passives and enchantments, and costs half as much. Let's not be biased...

Also, very few people use ritual of retribution because the trade off isn't worth it more often than not.

I hope this is a pve discussion too. 2.4k magic dmg every 2 secs in pvp translates to about 200-300 dps.

It's hybrid pve/PvP thread. OP has a chubby out for Templar nerfs lol.

Iskiab

teladoy wrote: »

Did you realize how much it cost?

Cost is important yea, but I’d rather have abilities that do a lot and cost more because time has value as well.

If you have two abilities and one costs 1k and does 2k damage, another costs 5k and does 10k damage, guess which one’s better.

Besides ritual also has a longer duration then other ground effect abilities. Compared to other classes it’s actually cheaper because it doesn’t have to be cast as often.

Aznarb

Saril_Durzam wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Arciris wrote: »

So, can the Matriarch get it's damage back too please?

Nah super high free dmg isn't good.

Free? i wouldnt call 2 skill slots "free".

You've a 2 target burst heal who do not require to aim for it and it's also cheaper than other class burst heal.
And on top of that you still get free dmg even after the nerf, seem fine to me.

Mayrael

Aznarb wrote: »

Saril_Durzam wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Arciris wrote: »

So, can the Matriarch get it's damage back too please?

Nah super high free dmg isn't good.

Free? i wouldnt call 2 skill slots "free".

You've a 2 target burst heal who do not require to aim for it and it's also cheaper than other class burst heal.
And on top of that you still get free dmg even after the nerf, seem fine to me.

Ahhh class wars, delightfully! "My cheese is less cheesy than yours!" Lol sorcs fighting with templars xD

MaxJrFTW

Iskiab wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Blockade is applying status effects, dealing extra dmg to people with status effects on them, off-balance(10% more dmg), triggering passives and enchantments, and costs half as much. Let's not be biased...

Also, very few people use ritual of retribution because the trade off isn't worth it more often than not.

I hope this is a pve discussion too. 2.4k magic dmg every 2 secs in pvp translates to about 200-300 dps.

It’s also more like 400 dps.

In a world where people have no spell resistance, minor protection, major protection, and 0 points into elemental defender and thick skinned. Everywhere else it's going to be around 200 dps, if not less.

Just take the Viper set as an example. The tooltip is 6400 Poison Damage over 4 seconds(higher than Ritual of retribution), but in PvP it does around 200 dps. On paper that tooltip makes you think the set does a lot of dmg, but it actually does next to none. Hence why nobody uses it.

Anyone whining about that sort of dmg needs to find a different hobby.

Jabbs_Giggity

Iskiab wrote: »

teladoy wrote: »

Did you realize how much it cost?

Cost is important yea, but I’d rather have abilities that do a lot and cost more because time has value as well.

If you have two abilities and one costs 1k and does 2k damage, another costs 5k and does 10k damage, guess which one’s better.

Besides ritual also has a longer duration then other ground effect abilities. Compared to other classes it’s actually cheaper because it doesn’t have to be cast as often.

This is completely false. In a perfect world, yes you are correct that it does not need to be cast as often based on duration. However, in reality (which is what majority of veteran players live in) Extended Rit. and Ritual of Ret. are never used for a full duration, let alone a fraction of the duration. Why? Great question! The answer is because ZOS has forced mobile combat on players, but subsequently forgot to address this with the Templar Class. Unless you are tanking on a stationary boss, you are moving. More often than not, you are moving far beyond the targeted area of your casted skill. Thus, you are forced to use resources (nearly 5K now) to recast this "OP" skill upon repositioning. For PVE content this is less daunting, but in a PVP environment you are recasting Ritual of Ret on average every 3-5 seconds (More often for Extended Rit. because of how easy it is and less expensive to reapply DoTs immediately after Cleansing the non-prioratized negative effects that can stack upward of 10-15 negative effects on one character within seconds.

For all you haters of Templars...seriously get over it...it's getting old and you're poking at a dead class that is constantly being phased out of ESO by ZOS. A lot of Templar's abilities have been gutten where passive and active buffs/debuffs have been reworked to be less effective or removed completely to be given to another class. An example is Major Mending being given to DK and Warden. Both new classes introduced to ESO have been designed exclusively to effectively replace the Templar Class - albeit they have not yet achieved this 100% because we adapt and find ways to remain relevant.

Lokey0024

Costs less and heals more then cinder storm. And damages. And purifies. And 3x bigger. Balanced.

O.o

RebornRequiem

Answering to the original post, I did not real all comments in the thread:

Ritual of retribution is quite and expensive skill, so I kind of would expect some big impact for a high costing class skill.
I agree it is a bit overloaded with effects, but remember the snare and minor mending are actually bound to the passives and not part of the skill itself.
So for lots of magicka we get a big aoe heal and dot, 2 negative effects removed and the synergy. In PvE a big aoe heal over tmie is probably necessary after the healing springs and healing bubble changes. This will help out unexpirienced healers also thanks to its synergy, which heals the allies without the healers doing.
For PvP remember, that enemies need to stand inside to be damage or allies to get healed. Yes the aoe is probably the second biggest non ultimate aoe (bloodaltar is surely bigger and for ultimates rite of passage is also bigger), but also in PvP mobility rules and you will in most scenarios not get every bit of healing or damage out of the skill.