Ritual of Retribution is doing as much damage as Elemental Blockade and also healing? huh?

OOJIMMY

They're about equal tbh number wise. Healing springs and wall are Every 1 sec ROR. Is 2

Drdeath20

RogueShark wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

RogueShark wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Please compare side-by-side the Tooltip for RoR and Twilight Matriarch. I'll wait...

Legit.
Matriarch is op. It heals 2 targets akin to BoL, takes up two bar slots, has no aoe damage/heal component, and doesn't purge. And it can die.

...Wait, that's nothing like retribution...
Provides neither the utility or AoE component on heals or damage.
Huh.

Hum ?
I've a heal sorc, so let me help you.

1 - Can't die in DG/Trial
2 - Do very good single target dmg, way more than RoR
3 - 2 bar slot, yup only downside
4 - heal 2 char
5 - no LoS requierment
6 - Half mana of any burst heal in the game

Atm sorc is the easiest healer in the game.
Only utility make him not meta.
But that doesn't mean he's OP.

Also RoR always be multi-fontion.

1. Can in PvP.
2. Damage is being nerfed by a large amount.
3. N/A
4. BoL heals 2 targets. Second target is only 1/3 but it'd the comparable skill to Twilight, not retribution... which was the point of my post.
5. No LoS can be actually an issue healing cages in Lokke HM when other people drop lower.

Again, point of my post was that comparing a 2 target burst heal to a huge AoE heal, damage, purge, and enemy snare is absurd.

Dont move the goal post switching from pve for 1 skill vs pvp for another. We can talk pvp if you would like as well as both but its wrong to use the pve upside vs the other skills pvp downside. We can compare pve to pve and pvp to pvp. Matriach blows RoR out of the water on both scenarios.

ku5h

Minno wrote: »

This thread is dead until I see a video showing all the aoe based DMG skills in a basics combat veteran setting and a full list of their buffs/downsides.

Till then it's a noise thread and not actual f feedback.

I remember you trowing nerf suggestions for Sorcs and NBs like candy and yet you never provided any videos. How come? But then again you say new Eclipse is just fine and ppl should L2P. I guess bias is your middle name.

Minno

ku5h wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

This thread is dead until I see a video showing all the aoe based DMG skills in a basics combat veteran setting and a full list of their buffs/downsides.

Till then it's a noise thread and not actual f feedback.

I remember you trowing nerf suggestions for Sorcs and NBs like candy and yet you never provided any videos. How come? But then again you say new Eclipse is just fine and ppl should L2P. I guess bias is your middle name.

Good thing they didn't Nerf either of those classes lol

ecru

Drdeath20 wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Sigh, your really not getting this are ya. It went up 95% but yet from your live to pts its only up 75%. Why do you suppose that is?

Secondly on your test blockade did ~ the same dps but it also proc'd your enchant and gave a status effect. Much more raw damage potential for a cheaper skill. Again i dont think you follow. If you trully want to test. Test them seperately. 10 RoRs no light attacks. Stop get results. Reset and 10 ele blockades, no light attacks.

At this point i have given up on the pure peculiarness of this entire emotional tooltip warrioring that is going on here. You dont even know what point your trying to make other than RoR looks semi competitive now bcz everything else got nerfed.

why don't you test something for once? everything you've posted so far has been flat out wrong, from the numbers you made up earlier, to thaum not effecting RoR, to the 51% increase that you somehow magically came up with. all wrong. install pts and come back with some data instead of wasting people's time (again) with this made-up nonsense.

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

Sordidfairytale wrote: »

Ritual heals certainly stack on live, if they don't stack on PTS that's a change.

No, they don't. Cleansing ritual has never ever stacked its heal.

Think of how broken 5 templars healing a team getting 5k hps in that massive radius would be. It's the same reason identical morphs of rapid regen don't stack.

Ritual does not apply a buff like rapid regen, it's a ground aoe. I can't think of any ground aoes from multiple players that don't apply a buff or debuff (like blood altar) that don't stack. It would be extremely unique if it didn't, so I really doubt this is the case. This would also mean that two templars in a trial group both couldn't heal with ritual, which I also doubt is the case.

maxjapank wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

He's correct. It's more than 20m actually, it's 24m pbaoe (12m in every direction).

He wasn't correct. And if he's going to use tool tips, then he should correctly use them when comparing skills so as to not inflate or cause confusion. But as many have pointed out, just using tool tips are also misleading. Combat is situational. There is nothing wrong with Retribution in it's current form. Anything less, and it might not get used.

Okay, so since ritual in it's current form is fine, are you in favor of every other ground aoe receiving heals and utility on par with ritual? And also having their radius at least doubled, if not tripled? Ritual of Retribution does six different separate things, while most ground aoes do one or two. What can we add to boneyard, while also tripling increasing it's radius? Right now it does damage in a small radius, provides a synergy, and applies fracture inside of it. That's three things. First, we can make sure everyone inside of the new gigantic radius of boneyard gets the synergy instead of just one person. We're still at three things though, and the synergy is only doing one thing. I guess the synergy can also remove all debuffs too? Seems fair. Next, we'll make it's healing output equal to it's damage, that's four. Minor protection while inside of it? Seems fair. Five. How about minor berserk for everyone inside of it too? There, now we have six.

What do you think of the new gigantic boneyard that gives everyone a damaging and purging synergy, applies major fracture and breach to everyone inside of it, heals equal to it's damage, and gives out minor protection and minor berserk? I'm fine with a slight cost increase if it does all of these things tbh.

Ffs test it, it doesn't.

i'll test it when i get a chance, but you're going to have to forgive me if i don't give you the benefit of the doubt considering what's been posted in this thread (see above), lol.

Are you serious? I cannot tell if this is satire or not. Why is your numbers from live to pts only a 75% difference instead of a 95% difference? Are you still not catching on? Just stop and think about it. Seriously think about it. Actually at this point sit this 1 out. If it hasnt sunk in by now i dont think it ever will.

I give up.....Yeah man you are absolutely right. 3 days into pts we need to buff nightblades lol bcz of (reaches for random idea) ballons. Bless your emotional self. Tooltip warrior for the nonesensical win. Not bcz of a solid argument but bcz of a iron will and strong desire to never listen to any counter argument at all.

i don't play a nightblade, i'm just using refreshing path as a comparison. i don't know why it's 75%, although i speculated as to why in an earlier post, but it isn't 51% like you completely made up in an earlier post, and also is effected by thaum like you suggested it wasn't, in another earlier post. you're quite literally making things up to prove your "points", which aren't based on any sort of testing whatsoever, just whatever you "feel" is right. you've personally contributed absolutely nothing to this discussion other than made up numbers and misinformation.

Minno wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

The damage was not doubled lol. It is no longer effected by thaurmatage. It went up, but by a few hundred.

This thread has become pure absurdity.

i dunno what the point of posts like these are when anyone can just read the patch notes

Cleansing Ritual:

Increased the healing per tick of this ability and its morphs by approximately 95%.

i guess 95% isn't quite doubled, if you want to be pedantic.

Ritual of Retribution (morph): This morph no longer states it grants additional modifiers to the damage and healing, and instead deals damage for an identical coefficient of the heal.

have any of you actually tested any of these things on PTS before making these posts to make sure that the information you're posing is actually, you know, accurate, like i did before i made this thread? i wasn't entirely sure by the way the patch notes were worded about how the ability would work, so i actually tested it. i get the feeling that some of you haven't even read the patch notes at all, much less have pts installed.

i tested it against elemental blockade multiple times and over 12s ror was doing almost the exact same amount of damage as 12s blockade, +- 5-10% depending on crits, as the tooltips imply it would. my tooltips on pts are 75% higher than it is on live, not sure if there is some scaling change or if it's my gear (don't know how recent the copy is, didn't check), so it's extremely dishonest to say that it's just "a few hundred more".

But that doesnt proc enchants, account for status effects being applied, or take into account destro staff passives orrr cost efficiency as well as praticality of bar space.

Damage dealers

Ele weapons, solar barrage, jesus beam, inner light, blazing spear

Ele blockade, rune, harness magicka, flex, channeled acceleration

Sure i could put that as a flex spot but then im losing out on other valuable skills. Especially since degeneration and soul trap seem to be pretty decent.

And no its not dishonest to say its only a few hundred more. Thaurmatage used to effect the damage modifier for RoR and now it no longer grants additional modifiers to damage and healing. Idk what you put into thaurmatage but im around 44%. Soo on a 3k tooltip id imagine it went up hundreds taking into account losing atleast 44% on thaurmatage.

Anyways this entire post has reached a level of absurdity that i wasnt really prepared for. Its not a strong damage skill or a strong heal, or a strong snare but yeah it does have a good synergy. For a game thats about min/max it fails but for the sake of saving bar space for a not cheap inferior damage skill it has it perks (post the nerfs to everything else). Im glad you think RoR is most overloaded skill and yet in the few posts i have mentioned cloak you have been silent about that. Kinda an inconvenient truth but i digress....Anyways arguing with an emotional tooltip warrior is not a good look for me. I say good day to you.

i have no idea what you're even talking about anymore. whether thaum effects it or not, the tooltips are 75% higher on PTS. the way you phrase it sounds like it was nerfed. it's not "a few hundred more" unless your gear is so awful or you're so underleveled that it was only a few hundred in the first place.

the levels of dishonesty or flat out lying in this thread about how this ability works or was changed is really disappointing. make your point without obfuscating facts, spreading misinformation, or flat out making *** up or stop wasting everyone's time.

This is just drivel. Your tooltip is around 2.4k every 2 seconds after being buffed up 95%. Soo it went up ~1.1k. But lost out on thaurmatage multiplier which at minimum most people keep at 44% multiplier. Soo far to say it actually went up a max of 51% which is around 600. Ok kiddo play time is over. This forum posts has been long dead but viva the emotional tooltip warrior. At this point just post of a video of how you win with it or begone, back from whence you came! And thats that!

Which part of the tooltips on pts are 75% higher than they are on live didn't you understand? Was it the 75% part? You're literally pulling numbers out of your ass here. It isn't fair to say it went up 51% because you literally just made that up. It's obvious you haven't actually been on PTS, because if you had, you would know that Thaum does effect RoR, since it takes about ten seconds to take a few points out of the cp tree and look at a tooltip.

TBH this whole thread is really disappointing. Let's recap some of these galaxy brain takes.

Minno wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

You’re right that this is not balanced with Refreshing Path. Refreshing should be changed to be in line with Ritual of Retribution. It’s not like Magblades are at risk of being overpowered.

As far as intent, Brian Wheeler specifically mentioned that Ritual’s healing was buffed to help fill the void left by the springs change. It is probably needed, and unlikely to be reverted.

Should also be noted blockade is every second. His tooltip will be 2500 off blockade and doesn't account for the fact it will ignore 10% armor plus apply enchants/poisons. And don't forget 20% extra DMG on burning targets. So it's like 3kx8= 24000.

And it costs dirt. Rit cost was increased as well. Look at that 4k cost and DMG every 2s lol. 2400x6 = 14000.

"OvERlOadED".

Somehow this post got 15 "Agrees". How? Who knows. I'm guessing no one has PTS installed.

The implication here is that blockade will do 24,000 damage, while RoR will do 14k damage.

uh.. well, let's examine that.



Weird, they're almost exactly equal. I guess the question is if @Minno doesn't understand very basic math, or if he's being intentionally dishonest. Really makes you think.

maxjapank wrote: »

The op's comparison is silly. Ritual is every 2 secs. Healing and Blockade are every 1 sec. The healing of Retribution has always been higher than extended. Templars were given higher healing and dmg with Retribution in exchange for only cleansing 2 harmful effects instead of 5. Retribution is also half the duration of Extended. And both morphs have received a resource cost increase.

I know that some people have trouble with math, but I'm pretty sure 1+1=2. Three brain geniuses hit the Agree button here.

Lord_Eomer wrote: »

Ritual of Retribution damage and healing causing per 2 seconds and blockade is 1 second.

OP should read patch notes in detail.

I guess math really is harder than I realized. 1+1 still equals 2, despite this post. Another three very smart people with very large brains hit the Agree button here. TBH It's pretty hard to figure out if people are just being intentionally dishonest, or if they're genuine when they make these posts. Guess we'll never know

Man look at that 28% uptime on charged enchant. You should do the test with just RoR and with just blockade because that's how you truly compare the two abilities.

more pedantic nonsense that isn't even correct. the status effects could have, at most, effected one extra tick of blockade, not RoR because i casted RoR first, and the status effects would change the damage of both skills. lol.

this is getting boring.

Sordidfairytale

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

Sordidfairytale wrote: »

Ritual heals certainly stack on live, if they don't stack on PTS that's a change.

No, they don't. Cleansing ritual has never ever stacked its heal.

Think of how broken 5 templars healing a team getting 5k hps in that massive radius would be. It's the same reason identical morphs of rapid regen don't stack.

I tested it on live after you made your claim and before I made my post. Just to be sure.

Two templars and one guinea pig.
Tried it with one RoR then the other.
Then tried both at the same time.
They definitely stacked when both were up.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Sordidfairytale wrote: »

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

Sordidfairytale wrote: »

Ritual heals certainly stack on live, if they don't stack on PTS that's a change.

No, they don't. Cleansing ritual has never ever stacked its heal.

Think of how broken 5 templars healing a team getting 5k hps in that massive radius would be. It's the same reason identical morphs of rapid regen don't stack.

I tested it on live after you made your claim and before I made my post. Just to be sure.

Two templars and one guinea pig.
Tried it with one RoR then the other.
Then tried both at the same time.
They definitely stacked when both were up.

Of course they did, and so do different sources of rapid regen/mutagen on the same target. Would not make sense of they didn't, do damage aoes not stack on the same target? Do single target dots not stack on the same target? Of course they do, what would make heals àct any different.

To the op, I disagree with your statement and all the reasons i would say are already in the thread and your counter arguments are not at all convincing.

EtTuBrutus

Sordidfairytale wrote: »

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

Sordidfairytale wrote: »

Ritual heals certainly stack on live, if they don't stack on PTS that's a change.

No, they don't. Cleansing ritual has never ever stacked its heal.

Think of how broken 5 templars healing a team getting 5k hps in that massive radius would be. It's the same reason identical morphs of rapid regen don't stack.

I tested it on live after you made your claim and before I made my post. Just to be sure.

Two templars and one guinea pig.
Tried it with one RoR then the other.
Then tried both at the same time.
They definitely stacked when both were up.

Bc you used the two different morphs. Just like i mentioned. 10 ror will not heal 10 times every 2 seconds. Only thier dmg will stack.

Do this. Go to pvp with 2 templars and a buddy. Both with ror. Have the templars half overlap the ror circles. Have your 3rd teammate jump off a tower to the middle. They'll only get the stronger of the two heals in the middle overlapped area. Then have them move to each individual area. They'll get whichever thier in from the corresponding templar.

EtTuBrutus

I'll make a video for God's sake.

Sordidfairytale

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

I'll make a video for God's sake.

Thanks for being willing to test your claims. I'll make a video as well. This all goes a lot better if we don't *** on one another and learn together.

EtTuBrutus

Sordidfairytale wrote: »

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

I'll make a video for God's sake.

Thanks for being willing to test your claims. I'll make a video as well. This all goes a lot better if we don't *** on one another and learn together.

Ps. Video wont be until Friday when I'm off work.

itscompton

Iskiab wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

I think some people aren’t smart enough to figure out how these things will play out.

7k HPS in a trial from one button press on a dps every 12 seconds means having 4-5 Templars can replace a healer. 4 Templars means 28k HPS total, 5 Templars means 35k HPS and is more then enough to replace a full time healer.

Then why wasnt it ever used b4?

It was, in pve trial healers use it.

The healing value has gone up considerably.

I think the main issue I’m seeing is some people are looking at the ability from their small group or solo pvp perspective and ignoring the large group/trial perspective. My god you could even have templar zergs.

Best change I can think of to accommodate both groups: keep the damage as is, limit ritual of retribution to healing 1 person in the area. That will make small/solo pvp Templars happy and not break the game

If I put together a zerg of Templars on live using RoR+Blockade with sweeps, potl and ulti's it would roll everything in its way so that's not a great argument.

EtTuBrutus

Sordidfairytale wrote: »

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

I'll make a video for God's sake.

Thanks for being willing to test your claims. I'll make a video as well. This all goes a lot better if we don't *** on one another and learn together.

Make sure you're the

itscompton wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

I think some people aren’t smart enough to figure out how these things will play out.

7k HPS in a trial from one button press on a dps every 12 seconds means having 4-5 Templars can replace a healer. 4 Templars means 28k HPS total, 5 Templars means 35k HPS and is more then enough to replace a full time healer.

Then why wasnt it ever used b4?

It was, in pve trial healers use it.

The healing value has gone up considerably.

I think the main issue I’m seeing is some people are looking at the ability from their small group or solo pvp perspective and ignoring the large group/trial perspective. My god you could even have templar zergs.

Best change I can think of to accommodate both groups: keep the damage as is, limit ritual of retribution to healing 1 person in the area. That will make small/solo pvp Templars happy and not break the game

If I put together a zerg of Templars on live using RoR+Blockade with sweeps, potl and ulti's it would roll everything in its way so that's not a great argument.

That's what the developer statement said essentially

Sordidfairytale

Don't bother with the video. Go enjoy some quality time in game with your friends.

Sandman929

Sordidfairytale wrote: »

Don't bother with the video. Go enjoy some quality time in game with your friends.

Thanks for that

Animal_Mother

ecru wrote: »

It's also healing for as much as the new Healing Springs, but I couldn't fit that into the title. Also my Ritual of Retribution isn't fully leveled yet so those aren't the final numbers, but it's close enough.

Can someone tell me what's going on here? It's like the old Refreshing Path that also did damage, but on steroids because it does five other things on top of that.

Here's a list of things this single aoe ability is doing. And for anyone who doesn't know, it's probably the largest ground aoe in the entire game, unless I'm forgetting something.

• Heals for as much as Healing Springs or Illustrious Healing, but over a much wider area
• Does as much damage as Elemental Blockade, but over a much wider area
• Removes two debuffs off of the caster
• Provides the caster with Minor Mending
• Snares everyone in a huge area over 12 seconds
• Provides everyone inside of the wide area a synergy that removes all debuffs

ZOS? Anyone? It was already overloaded before but now the damage and healing has been basically doubled? Not to mention that the now doubled heal will last for 18 seconds with the other morph and the circle/synergy will last for 24 seconds, while it removes 5 debuffs off of the caster. Both morphs are basically 2-3 abilities in one.

Compared to Refreshing Path, this does damage, heals for almost as much, snares, covers five times the area, removes debuffs, gives minor mending, and provides a synergy that heals and removes all debuffs? The only thing Refreshing Path does besides healing is provides Major Expedition.

??????????????????

wtf is going on???????

You are missing some facts.

The minor mending and the snare come from the passive Sacred Ground and not RoR. RoR itself grants heal, cleanse, damage, and a synergy.

As a Templar, I can cast my Restoring Light ultimate or Rune Focus (or it’s morphs) and still get the benefits of Sacred Ground’s minor mending and snare.

edit:
This really isn’t new with RoR. It’s been like this for a couple years. Most Templars usually run the other morph - Extended Ritual for increased duration and purging of additional debuffs (5 vs RoRs 2).

EtTuBrutus

Sordidfairytale wrote: »

Don't bother with the video. Go enjoy some quality time in game with your friends.

That's on live PC? I'll show u live ps4. Healing ritual hasnt shown that using in game numbers.

Sporvan

Refreshing Path also has the strange anti-synergy of granting more movement speed.... so folks can leave the healing area faster lol

Seriously amp up Refreshing Path again and restore the Nightblade healing via damage identity. It's so generic right now.

Sordidfairytale

Yep this is on PC Live, not the PTS. The combat report shows 0 if I'm at full health.

I was trying to find a decent clip that shows the difference between the 2 and 1 ticks.

https://youtu.be/f31tV4OM2sY

The addons makes it easier for PC users to determine things. I wish you had that convenience on Console as well.

I should have provided proof previously when I popped on after I had done my testing yesterday. But I didn't think to make a video or snap a screenshot. I've been bit before when making a claim involving the Mending set. Very embarrassing, I should have learned.

ecru

Animal_Mother wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

It's also healing for as much as the new Healing Springs, but I couldn't fit that into the title. Also my Ritual of Retribution isn't fully leveled yet so those aren't the final numbers, but it's close enough.

Can someone tell me what's going on here? It's like the old Refreshing Path that also did damage, but on steroids because it does five other things on top of that.

Here's a list of things this single aoe ability is doing. And for anyone who doesn't know, it's probably the largest ground aoe in the entire game, unless I'm forgetting something.

• Heals for as much as Healing Springs or Illustrious Healing, but over a much wider area
• Does as much damage as Elemental Blockade, but over a much wider area
• Removes two debuffs off of the caster
• Provides the caster with Minor Mending
• Snares everyone in a huge area over 12 seconds
• Provides everyone inside of the wide area a synergy that removes all debuffs

ZOS? Anyone? It was already overloaded before but now the damage and healing has been basically doubled? Not to mention that the now doubled heal will last for 18 seconds with the other morph and the circle/synergy will last for 24 seconds, while it removes 5 debuffs off of the caster. Both morphs are basically 2-3 abilities in one.

Compared to Refreshing Path, this does damage, heals for almost as much, snares, covers five times the area, removes debuffs, gives minor mending, and provides a synergy that heals and removes all debuffs? The only thing Refreshing Path does besides healing is provides Major Expedition.

??????????????????

wtf is going on???????

You are missing some facts.

The minor mending and the snare come from the passive Sacred Ground and not RoR. RoR itself grants heal, cleanse, damage, and a synergy.

As a Templar, I can cast my Restoring Light ultimate or Rune Focus (or it’s morphs) and still get the benefits of Sacred Ground’s minor mending and snare.

edit:
This really isn’t new with RoR. It’s been like this for a couple years. Most Templars usually run the other morph - Extended Ritual for increased duration and purging of additional debuffs (5 vs RoRs 2).

Right, I wasn't suggesting it was new and I know it comes from the passives, and it's not like anyone doesn't have points in all of their passives. The passives are very powerful considering the gigantic area ritual covers and you'd be surprised how many people don't even know they exist. You'd be surprised how many templars don't even know they exist I made a thread about the snare in the BG forum and the third or fourth response was telling me how ritual definitely doesn't have any snare attached to it at all, and never has. I get the feeling some people are playing a completely different game than myself and others are.

Lucky28

Sporvan wrote: »

Refreshing Path also has the strange anti-synergy of granting more movement speed.... so folks can leave the healing area faster lol

Seriously amp up Refreshing Path again and restore the Nightblade healing via damage identity. It's so generic right now.

Yeah...... it's really freaking stupid that Path is the one with expedition on it. should have stayed on Cripple.

EtTuBrutus

Sordidfairytale wrote: »

Yep this is on PC Live, not the PTS. The combat report shows 0 if I'm at full health.

I was trying to find a decent clip that shows the difference between the 2 and 1 ticks.

https://youtu.be/f31tV4OM2sY

The addons makes it easier for PC users to determine things. I wish you had that convenience on Console as well.

I should have provided proof previously when I popped on after I had done my testing yesterday. But I didn't think to make a video or snap a screenshot. I've been bit before when making a claim involving the Mending set. Very embarrassing, I should have learned.

Im still gonna test it. I did the same test when damage numbers were applied and my templar buddies and i were really upset about it.

EtTuBrutus

Jesus tap dancing christ. The heals stack. Can't wait to tell my friend that quit.

Aznarb

Sporvan wrote: »

Refreshing Path also has the strange anti-synergy of granting more movement speed.... so folks can leave the healing area faster lol

Seriously amp up Refreshing Path again and restore the Nightblade healing via damage identity. It's so generic right now.

The area is also so tiny..

universal_wrath

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

It's also healing for as much as the new Healing Springs, but I couldn't fit that into the title. Also my Ritual of Retribution isn't fully leveled yet so those aren't the final numbers, but it's close enough.

Can someone tell me what's going on here? It's like the old Refreshing Path that also did damage, but on steroids because it does five other things on top of that.

Here's a list of things this single aoe ability is doing. And for anyone who doesn't know, it's probably the largest ground aoe in the entire game, unless I'm forgetting something.

• Heals for as much as Healing Springs or Illustrious Healing, but over a much wider area
• Does as much damage as Elemental Blockade, but over a much wider area
• Removes two debuffs off of the caster
• Provides the caster with Minor Mending
• Snares everyone in a huge area over 12 seconds
• Provides everyone inside of the wide area a synergy that removes all debuffs

ZOS? Anyone? It was already overloaded before but now the damage and healing has been basically doubled? Not to mention that the now doubled heal will last for 18 seconds with the other morph and the circle/synergy will last for 24 seconds, while it removes 5 debuffs off of the caster. Both morphs are basically 2-3 abilities in one.

Compared to Refreshing Path, this does damage, heals for almost as much, snares, covers five times the area, removes debuffs, gives minor mending, and provides a synergy that heals and removes all debuffs? The only thing Refreshing Path does besides healing is provides Major Expedition.

??????????????????

wtf is going on???????

I mean ignoring the 20% dmg on blockable, ones 2.6k and one is 4.2k magicka.

I mean, I'm fine with some of my abilities costing 60% more magicka as long as they do as much as 3-4 different abilities at once.

People need to imagine a few of these stacked in a BG. Is there anything that would provide a team with an advantage like this? Constant outgoing damage equal to two ele blockades, constant healing equal to a permanent vigor on everyone inside of it, a permanent snare, and a synergy that removes all debuffs?

The heals don't stack. People really need to know how the frame works before they comment like they know it all.

You are wrong, my friend, healing does stack. I play with my friend, bith pvp healing, we almost use same abilities. Ritual, regeneration, healing spring...etc all stacks. Just because you are at 100%hp, does not mean you do not recieve any heals at 100%hp. If 2 player cast regenration at full hp, you get healed by both player, you do not see the heals but you see the skill timer running, as soon as you drop blew 100% you get healed. Another example is wardens, if they heal you at 100%hp they still give you minor toughness buff, if it was not the case, then you wiuld be right. Even synrgies do stack, you can use cleanse synrgy as many time as you can as long as it's not from the same player.

OOJIMMY

Iskiab wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

I think some people aren’t smart enough to figure out how these things will play out.

7k HPS in a trial from one button press on a dps every 12 seconds means having 4-5 Templars can replace a healer. 4 Templars means 28k HPS total, 5 Templars means 35k HPS and is more then enough to replace a full time healer.

Then why wasnt it ever used b4?

It was, in pve trial healers use it.

The healing value has gone up considerably.

I think the main issue I’m seeing is some people are looking at the ability from their small group or solo pvp perspective and ignoring the large group/trial perspective. My god you could even have templar zergs.

Best change I can think of to accommodate both groups: keep the damage as is, limit ritual of retribution to healing 1 person in the area. That will make small/solo pvp Templars happy and not break the game

I main a stamplar and actually switched to ror over caltrops for pve. I lost a little dps but that healing brought a bit of utility.

RogueShark

Drdeath20 wrote: »

RogueShark wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

RogueShark wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Please compare side-by-side the Tooltip for RoR and Twilight Matriarch. I'll wait...

Legit.
Matriarch is op. It heals 2 targets akin to BoL, takes up two bar slots, has no aoe damage/heal component, and doesn't purge. And it can die.

...Wait, that's nothing like retribution...
Provides neither the utility or AoE component on heals or damage.
Huh.

Hum ?
I've a heal sorc, so let me help you.

1 - Can't die in DG/Trial
2 - Do very good single target dmg, way more than RoR
3 - 2 bar slot, yup only downside
4 - heal 2 char
5 - no LoS requierment
6 - Half mana of any burst heal in the game

Atm sorc is the easiest healer in the game.
Only utility make him not meta.
But that doesn't mean he's OP.

Also RoR always be multi-fontion.

1. Can in PvP.
2. Damage is being nerfed by a large amount.
3. N/A
4. BoL heals 2 targets. Second target is only 1/3 but it'd the comparable skill to Twilight, not retribution... which was the point of my post.
5. No LoS can be actually an issue healing cages in Lokke HM when other people drop lower.

Again, point of my post was that comparing a 2 target burst heal to a huge AoE heal, damage, purge, and enemy snare is absurd.

Dont move the goal post switching from pve for 1 skill vs pvp for another. We can talk pvp if you would like as well as both but its wrong to use the pve upside vs the other skills pvp downside. We can compare pve to pve and pvp to pvp. Matriach blows RoR out of the water on both scenarios.

People have been referencing Retribution in PvP so I will also make reference of Twilight in PvP.
AGAIN the point of my initial post was in response to someone saying 'compare Twilight tooltip to Retribution tooltip'. They do not even FUNCTION in a similar fashion, outside of vague 'damage and healing' components. One is an AoE. The other is not. One supplies Purge. One does not. One snares. One does not. They have literally nothing in common to make them comparable. They are not used for the same purpose as they are two completely, entirely, differenlty functioning spells/ At this point it's like you're arguing 'Cloak blows streak out of the water in all situations. Just look at streak tooltip versus cloak and tell me which is better!' They are completely different functioning spells with different purposes and uses.

Matriarch is comparable to Breath of Life, to Healthy Offering to... maybe Bursting Vines or Fungal Growth for wardens, etc. Those are the burst heals of classes. To compare Retribution and Matriarch makes zero sense. Retribution would be more comparable to something like un-nerfed refreshing path: aoe heal that did damage and provided some utility.

Stibbons

Templars needed buff after years.

Iskiab

OOJIMMY wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

I think some people aren’t smart enough to figure out how these things will play out.

7k HPS in a trial from one button press on a dps every 12 seconds means having 4-5 Templars can replace a healer. 4 Templars means 28k HPS total, 5 Templars means 35k HPS and is more then enough to replace a full time healer.

Then why wasnt it ever used b4?

It was, in pve trial healers use it.

The healing value has gone up considerably.

I think the main issue I’m seeing is some people are looking at the ability from their small group or solo pvp perspective and ignoring the large group/trial perspective. My god you could even have templar zergs.

Best change I can think of to accommodate both groups: keep the damage as is, limit ritual of retribution to healing 1 person in the area. That will make small/solo pvp Templars happy and not break the game

I main a stamplar and actually switched to ror over caltrops for pve. I lost a little dps but that healing brought a bit of utility.

Stibbons wrote: »

Templars needed buff after years.

Yea, I have no issue with Templars getting a buff, just not something that will break the game.

Maybe RoR keep the damage and heals 1-3 targets instead of 6. That would be powerful but not game breaking.

Minno

Iskiab wrote: »

OOJIMMY wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

I think some people aren’t smart enough to figure out how these things will play out.

7k HPS in a trial from one button press on a dps every 12 seconds means having 4-5 Templars can replace a healer. 4 Templars means 28k HPS total, 5 Templars means 35k HPS and is more then enough to replace a full time healer.

Then why wasnt it ever used b4?

It was, in pve trial healers use it.

The healing value has gone up considerably.

I think the main issue I’m seeing is some people are looking at the ability from their small group or solo pvp perspective and ignoring the large group/trial perspective. My god you could even have templar zergs.

Best change I can think of to accommodate both groups: keep the damage as is, limit ritual of retribution to healing 1 person in the area. That will make small/solo pvp Templars happy and not break the game

I main a stamplar and actually switched to ror over caltrops for pve. I lost a little dps but that healing brought a bit of utility.

Stibbons wrote: »

Templars needed buff after years.

Yea, I have no issue with Templars getting a buff, just not something that will break the game.

Maybe RoR keep the damage and heals 1-3 targets instead of 6. That would be powerful but not game breaking.

I agree on the stacking of heals. I consider that a bug and should be fixed.