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Seriously, this game is too easy and the overworld needs to be buffed heavily.
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Kolache✭✭✭✭the reality of the challenging games is that it just takes a moment to figure out the flow of the combat and timing and get used to it and then execute it. and harder games don't leave you much margin for error. kinda like DLC veteran dungeons. which most ESO people oh so love /sarcasm. the other truth is that most people NEED that margin for error. without it the game becomes impossible for them.
Everyone makes difficulty tuning sound so binary... it either has to be easy enough for the lowest common denominator or it has to be too difficult for the majority of the players? Personally, I think most of the game should live in the space between learning how combat works and small margins for error.
I don't think we should expect most players to ever get to vet DLC dungeon difficulty (or want to). I don't think that means expecting everyone else to never grasp combat 101.
its not the understanding. its the execution of said understanding. and it is. that. binary. you either have someone who CAN execute and execute quickly and for them, the moment they learn - it stops being challenging. or you have people who have trouble with execution and need that margin for error, for the fights to be forgiving. the fact that these fights are so forgiving is quite literally the main part of "its too easy" complaint
Difficulty in an ARPG (or whatever you want to call it) like this doesn't just come down to reaction times. For example, at what level do you think a player should learn when to eat food or drink a potion? At some level, should the difficulty should be tuned assuming that the character has eaten food and is carrying a potion? If so, how long do you think a new player should take to figure this out (assuming proper tutorials)... if not, what exactly is the problem with expecting people to use consumables in ESO if they need help?
and how do you propose to tune that? enforce eating food or drinks that have health component? not all of them do. enforce enchanting for health? we already get potions as rewards, but not a ton of them, so are we enforcing crafting or buying those potions now? are we going to start enforcing minimum health now? a knowledgeable player just gets more health and all the challenge is gone for them. just. like. that.
again.
meanwhile someone who doesn't have a crafter available to get those potions/food going - are stuck.
Who needs a crafter to get food/potions? People practically throw them away, especially lower levels ones on the guild trader assuming you don't have plenty from just looting the scenery. So you demonstrate that it's not just about reaction times that people can't overcome.. it's about any slight inconvenience that anyone is unwilling to even try to overcome, like learning anything at all about the game or choosing to apply what you've learned.
You make this newbies sound like a real miserable group of layabouts! I'm more optimistic--I think that most people are capable of getting better at this game and having fun doing it, there's just not good incentive to do it. People end up as DPS in dungeon groups only spamming bow light attacks in heavy armor with magicka self heals because there's really no reason not to before then.
I'm sure there are some poor souls who need as much consideration as you would give them, but I personally haven't been exposed to players so delicate that they had no hope of improving. There's no point in deciding what sort of difficulty increase would be trivial for veterans if any difficulty increase at all is off the table. (This is also assuming that it's impossible to have separate difficulties like we do in the rest of the game).Something being unbalanced in 1v1 does not imply that it is balanced in group play.2 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sylvermynx wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Why don't you remove all your CP's, and take your gear off if you want difficulty for the sake of difficulty?
People already have, and it’s still pointlessly easybarney2525 wrote: »navystylz_ESO wrote: »barney2525 wrote: »navystylz_ESO wrote: »barney2525 wrote: »
You are right. No one mentioned the rewards.
But no one ever mentions their Real ultimate goals either.
Must be really nice for people like you to pull absolutely BS out their arse to attack that argument, rather than the on-going actual discussion. You have NEVER gotten good rewards from quest content. NEVER. So this fixation and pretending peopel thinking overland content is too easy because they want better rewards is just inane. Stop. Just stop.
Nope
If you had paid any attention, you would have seen I have been addressing the issue.
The idea that the Main Focus of this or any other game of this type is to have the "wandering monsters" be the most dangerous and horribly hard for characters to kill is just plain ridiculous. The character needs to get from point A to point B to pursue the actual Mission (whatever it may be). Overland is simply Filler. It's Nuisance. It is DESIGNED to be minimal effort - especially for higher powered characters. To think otherwise makes no sense. It is NOT a Major part of the game.
So, if I see someone so adamant about Making it some Major part of the game, I start wondering Why. It's Not because "it's too easy". That would be something you complain about if you get to a world boss and it falls over in 3 hits.
That's Not what Overland is. Overland is Not Supposed to be hard, and it is functioning Exactly as it is supposed to. You tell me - WHY DOES ANYONE CARE THAT IS IS EASY TO GET FROM POINT A TO POINT B?
IMHOI can run through everything just like I would with CP and gear on. There's virtually no chance of me dying against trash mobs, even the "bosses" of quests are not a challenge. When we talk about the game being too easy, this is the number one issue.But you know some of us, actually want a little bit of a challenge, we want to die to trash mobs if we aggro too many, ESPECIALLY in the overworld. Some of us want the bosses of quests or delves to be actually challenging
From the OP. And many of us clarified our positions with not including PBs, Dolmen, WBs. Explaining that the penultimate boss of a quest chain should feel like a boss. Though I have mentioned delves several times not included in the 'overland', I thought he meant the delve bosses that quests had you do, rather than the rando you kill because it's sits in there.It is NOT a Major part of the game.
It's a majority of the game. Most of the content is questing stuff that is overland and where that brings you. The content added each chapter and DLC, which continuously treats the whole world like it's an afterthought. That would have us suspend disbelief but tell us majordomo X is so powerful, and he dies in 2 hits.
Most of the time I quest I feel resentment that quest bits aren't instanced, that not only do I have to deal with extremely easy bosses, but there's a good chance some random person runs in and starts nuking them too. Now boss that I could kill in a few hits myself, instantly dies completely destroying any immersion in the story.Maybe I'm older than you are, But Nobody complains this hard about something this insignificant without having Something else that they want to accomplish.
Could be. Maybe not. Or could be that people just are incapable of arguing a position as stated. How hard is it to understand that this game with every chapter and DLC release, brings for another story arc. One that can be smashed through solo, but generally have a bunch of other players smashing through with you, extremely easily.
I came to the forums because after doing Elsweyr completion I just felt cheated. Most of the story was good but I left it feeling like the experience was cheapened by how easy it was. This left me feeling bored and wondering if that aspect of the game was even worth paying more money for.
At least in GW2 the living season come free as long as you are logged in during a particular bit. ESO makes you pay for it and the only reason I feel like this chapter was worth it is because the Necromancer. But I began to question redoing all the content of my original main on the new necromancer was actually going to keep me occupied without feeling like it was so easy that the story completion would leave me feeling more bored than entertained.
This is why I came to the forums. And lo and behold, right there on the first page was this thread with other people expressing the exact same concerns I was feeling.
I don't need more rewards. I don't need anything else except not feeling bored to tears doing the story content which makes up a majority of this game, and is only bearable when the storytelling is superb, which isn't always the case.
Disagree.
It's Not a Majority of the game because IF you want you can simply avoid it - Completely.
You do not have to fight Anything if you don't Choose to.
It Can't be considered a ' Majority ' of the game if it can be simply ignored.
I could not even estimate the many many many characters I have seen running across my screen, being pursued by several mobs. It's not that the character could not stop and kill them. The player just has better things to do - like reaching their actual objective and participating in whatever that issue is.
Overland is Flavor.
Now you’re just outright lying
Questing is not avoidable in any way. You need it for Psijic. You need it for crafting area access. You need it to have access to many dailies. You need it for skill points. You need it for Soul Magic. You need it to experience a damn story
You’re not some old wisened Yoda, you’re just being a nuisance who clearly has no interest in actual debate, who believes all players are infantile creatures that would immediately throw out the whole game if a quest boss actually had a chance to kill them.
Then start removing points from all your passives, and use only one bar, and don't LA weave. Just keep going down the list until you've found the right level of "difficulty" for yourself, then play the rest of the game that way.
That's like suggesting if someone is too smart for a class they should take a crowbar to their head until they are brain damaged enough to where that class challenges them - instead of seeking out a more challenging class they could actually have fun learning in.
It's preposterous.
In the context of a game with pre defined parameters, that's what you need to do if that is the thrill you seek.
I don't find purposely gimping myself thrilling. I find it stupid. In any context.
Then you aren't interested in challenge.
Move along.
Challenge is key part of gameplay, but not the only part. Another essential part of any RPG is your build. You may go for full glass-cannon build in VMA for example with reward of higher scores but this will require times more skill then completing VMA as petsorc or WW. But in overland even if you are full glass cannon you still cannot die.. so if you remove your armor etc you will simply kill mobs longer, but they still can't kill you if you do basic actions like not standing in aoe and blocking/dodging heavy attacks. So now you will propose not to dodge aoes and heavy attacks?
what's left of gameplay then? you don't have build, you can't use CP perks which unlock mechanics, you can't use active defense, you can't use heals.. so you just stay in front of mobs in aoe light attacking them and then you finally die and feel accomplishment - "I finally found challenge"?
I know.
The whole point of an RPG is to make your character more powerful by collecting gear and experience. This idea that you should remove all of that to try and make the game more fun is like saying you should get rid of the football to have fun on a football field. It defeats the whole purpose of the game itself - at which point there is really no point in playing it at all.
Um. Have to disagree. The whole point of an RPG is that I have fun playing it. And RP'ing it. Right now, with new faster 'net, I'm going to be able to do stuff I haven't been able to do before - like bar swapping.... And I'm going to fully enjoy that. But the bottom line for me is - I am having fun in this game.
When it stops being fun, I'll stop playing it. Making overland harder? Eh, nope thanks. I play games (especially TES) for the stories.
Now.... I'm on board for a toggle that gives people like you a DiD option. Go for it, ZOS. And when you die repeatedly.... well... remember you asked for it.
Hit dog barks.
Right. And what makes an RPG "fun? Getting cool new gear and more experience so you can grow more powerful and learn more skills.
Do you know what makes an RPG less fun? At least to me? Stripping your character of all his gear and experience which you've spent years collecting and working hard to achieve. To be honest with you - I could not think of a better way to ruin an RPG. This whole prospect of stripping your character of his gear and experience to have "more fun" sounds so ridiculous and absurd to me I can't even take it seriously.
If I just wanted to read stories - I'd go to the library. Combat matters to me in an RPG - a lot. As does the overall game play. And having to run around naked just doesn't work for me. Maybe if I was at the beach with some girls that'd be my thing. But when I play an MMORPG running around naked just isn't something I'm interested in doing.
And that's fine if you don't want to see the landscape difficulty increased. What I am arguing for here is an optional veteran zone to quest in for people who do care about combat and don't want to have to run around naked reading stories. So what I am suggesting in this thread would not affect you in any way. Nor am I asking for the difficulty to be heightened to such a degree that I would die repeatedly. I am just asking for a modest challenge increase to make the combat interesting again.Edited by Jeremy on May 31, 2019 5:40AM8 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »^ i specially dodged several times to toggle that comment of yours. If you deny dodging you just prove how pointless your arguments are since dodging is basic mechanic of any action game.
But ok, no dodge, and i even increased my dps on 20% and received way less hits, since I became more experienced in fighting naked
Damage done
Damage received
so instead of dodging around giant, you just ran around him. the point. still. stands. you know how to move, you know how to play. what is it that you want exactly? one shots from the giant? so that people who don't have your reflexes have no chance at all? where is the fun in THAT? you know for people who are not you?
the reality of the challenging games is that it just takes a moment to figure out the flow of the combat and timing and get used to it and then execute it. and harder games don't leave you much margin for error. kinda like DLC veteran dungeons. which most ESO people oh so love /sarcasm. the other truth is that most people NEED that margin for error. without it the game becomes impossible for them.
so what can ZoS do... add one shots? increase mob health? speed up their attacks so that dodging is harder and requires more precise timing? eventually, people like you get used to it and it stops being challenging again, and meanwhile everyone else is left in a dust.
Those all screenshots are to prove that issue is not in CP or golden weapons, purple food, good item sets whatever (though all of that is rather easily achievable), like many people try to push. On every page there is somebody new who tells - remove your CP and quests will be challenging. No, they won't be.
So veteran players need separate instances where mobs will be faster and more dangerous, and quest bosses will require tactics to defeat them. There is no need to invent something new, there is already fast and dangerous mobs in DLC dungeons and quest/delve bosses might be similar to stalking dremora's of Imperial City Sewers. And this should be separate instance so "nobody will be left in dust".
You may ask why devs should bother? But they bother with dungeons like MHK and Frostvault where even in normal version only chance for newbie players to complete it is to be carried by occasional cp810 veteran. And I even agree for this mode to cost additional money, "like veteran overland upgrade" whatever. So what ZOS should do? gather feedback if there will be enough buyers for this new mode and implement it if they see it will make customers happy and their revenue higher.1 -
DisgracefulMind✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I don't care if the content is super, super hard. I just want to be able to quest, do things around overland and have to kind of use my brain in the process. The issue with it all now is everything can be 1-2 shot.Unfortunate magicka warden main.
PC/NA Server
Fairweather Friends
Retired to baby bgs forever. Leave me alone.7 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭the reality of the challenging games is that it just takes a moment to figure out the flow of the combat and timing and get used to it and then execute it. and harder games don't leave you much margin for error. kinda like DLC veteran dungeons. which most ESO people oh so love /sarcasm. the other truth is that most people NEED that margin for error. without it the game becomes impossible for them.
Everyone makes difficulty tuning sound so binary... it either has to be easy enough for the lowest common denominator or it has to be too difficult for the majority of the players? Personally, I think most of the game should live in the space between learning how combat works and small margins for error.
I don't think we should expect most players to ever get to vet DLC dungeon difficulty (or want to). I don't think that means expecting everyone else to never grasp combat 101.
its not the understanding. its the execution of said understanding. and it is. that. binary. you either have someone who CAN execute and execute quickly and for them, the moment they learn - it stops being challenging. or you have people who have trouble with execution and need that margin for error, for the fights to be forgiving. the fact that these fights are so forgiving is quite literally the main part of "its too easy" complaint
Difficulty in an ARPG (or whatever you want to call it) like this doesn't just come down to reaction times. For example, at what level do you think a player should learn when to eat food or drink a potion? At some level, should the difficulty should be tuned assuming that the character has eaten food and is carrying a potion? If so, how long do you think a new player should take to figure this out (assuming proper tutorials)... if not, what exactly is the problem with expecting people to use consumables in ESO if they need help?
and how do you propose to tune that? enforce eating food or drinks that have health component? not all of them do. enforce enchanting for health? we already get potions as rewards, but not a ton of them, so are we enforcing crafting or buying those potions now? are we going to start enforcing minimum health now? a knowledgeable player just gets more health and all the challenge is gone for them. just. like. that.
again.
meanwhile someone who doesn't have a crafter available to get those potions/food going - are stuck.
Who needs a crafter to get food/potions? People practically throw them away, especially lower levels ones on the guild trader assuming you don't have plenty from just looting the scenery. So you demonstrate that it's not just about reaction times that people can't overcome.. it's about any slight inconvenience that anyone is unwilling to even try to overcome, like learning anything at all about the game or choosing to apply what you've learned.
You make this newbies sound like a real miserable group of layabouts! I'm more optimistic--I think that most people are capable of getting better at this game and having fun doing it, there's just not good incentive to do it. People end up as DPS in dungeon groups only spamming bow light attacks in heavy armor with magicka self heals because there's really no reason not to before then.
I'm sure there are some poor souls who need as much consideration as you would give them, but I personally haven't been exposed to players so delicate that they had no hope of improving. There's no point in deciding what sort of difficulty increase would be trivial for veterans if any difficulty increase at all is off the table. (This is also assuming that it's impossible to have separate difficulties like we do in the rest of the game).
1. its not merely about improving. its about creating unnecessary discouraging obstacles
2. it fascinates me that rather then save yourself some gold and play overworld without potions and food, you'd rather force newer players who are still figuring things out and don't have gold reserves to just go around shopping guild traders for potions and food, hoping that there is something available pre lvl 50 they can use.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***3 -
Aireal✭✭✭the reality of the challenging games is that it just takes a moment to figure out the flow of the combat and timing and get used to it and then execute it. and harder games don't leave you much margin for error. kinda like DLC veteran dungeons. which most ESO people oh so love /sarcasm. the other truth is that most people NEED that margin for error. without it the game becomes impossible for them.
Everyone makes difficulty tuning sound so binary... it either has to be easy enough for the lowest common denominator or it has to be too difficult for the majority of the players? Personally, I think most of the game should live in the space between learning how combat works and small margins for error.
I don't think we should expect most players to ever get to vet DLC dungeon difficulty (or want to). I don't think that means expecting everyone else to never grasp combat 101.
its not the understanding. its the execution of said understanding. and it is. that. binary. you either have someone who CAN execute and execute quickly and for them, the moment they learn - it stops being challenging. or you have people who have trouble with execution and need that margin for error, for the fights to be forgiving. the fact that these fights are so forgiving is quite literally the main part of "its too easy" complaint
Umm no.. So by that your saying that the moment that you get to the top of Denali, Mountain climbing is no longer a challenge? What about Everest?? Mt Hood... Each climb is different, has its own nuances, dangers.
So I can play a S & B Stam.. and take little damage cause the other dude's sword only hit's my shield.. does that mean I know how to commit the perfect assassination with a dagger? Pickpocket 100 people with no bounty?
OH.. just fighting right? for challenge... Use a bow and make perfect long distance shots ( not multiple, one at a time ).. Be a Sorc with no pet and not ever die...
Challenge comes in all shapes and sizes.. and is limited to what people think of as a challenge. What some people call a ridicules gimp I call fun as Hades.. and a challenge worth doing.
So your LvL 1-50 char can run around virtually naked with no weapons and never die.. Soooo what's after lvl 50?
I can understand people thinking the OW is to easy, because they have skill.. and 310CP with the gear and buff's to go with it.. Ever thought of starting another character and not min/maxing it? Does everything have to be done on one character?
I guess I have a different idea of Role Playing.. cause I've never cared about rewards, how high a lvl my character can get to.. how hard the fight is... what I care about.. their story.
JMO...
climbing is actualy a small hobby of mine. I go to a local climbing gym mostly. and here is the thing... you go there often enough... more often then they reset the wall to create different routes and you eventually hit the wall figuratively speaking. either routes are no longer challenging becasue you know exactly which handholds to use in which order, cause you have learned them at this point... or they are too difficult because you don't have the strength, or flexibility, or both. there is no in between, until they add new routes and even then, it only takes a few climbs to learn them and they become easy, relatively speaking - again.
and there are some climbs, especially real life climbs that will always be challenging becasue even once you memorize them - they still require great deal of precision, flexibility and strength. no matter how well you know the routes. but those climbs? are also inaccessible to hobbyist like me.
which... is exactly the point I've been making.
now, to keep going with climbing analogy. if you are already strong and experienced, you may go to a climbing gym and NONE of the routes are particularly difficult for you, because experience allows you to learn faster, compensate with strength, etc. and then there are people who are just starting out and even the easiest route cam be a challenge for them, becasue they are new and still building up their strength. so in that - everyone has a different STARTING point when it comes to challenge. but.... once you learn a route and/or get stronger? it still comes down to that dreaded binary. you either CAN do it. or you cannot.
people here who complain about things being too easy? they are that experienced climber who loses all sense of challenge once they learn the route (or mechanics) unless the route is so difficult as to allow little to no margin for error. aka DLC veteran dungeons. which so many people have been BEGGING to be separated from general random queue, because they are too long and too hard.
You know what the difference in climbing the same exact gym 'wall' and climbing the exact same route on the face of Yosemite is?
Death.... or the chance there of. Yes...yes, safety lines etc...
I know not everyone get's a chance... 3 friends, 1 suv.. camping, climbing gear, and/ or scuba gear. My late 20's, early 30's.. My phone rang, didn't ask who it was, I asked where are we going! Sometimes it was down to the Keys.. and off on an underwater adventure. sometimes they decided to cave dive ( I was certified, but <shudder> nope ) I did outside or up top.. Maybe to Tn or Ky, North GA to climb a short cliff face.
It wasn't always just the climb or dive.... It was also the journey... So yeah, now my idea of danger is Wal-mart and just hiking in a state park is adventurous enough.. physically.
Game challenge? No matter how difficult, If it doesn't come with consequences for failure.. it's not much of a challenge... It's a different mindset, that's all. I'm all about the journey, the story.. until it's all about the challenge.. and then it has to have failure consequences....otherwise.. what's the point?
I understand the need for difficulty after one reaches a really high level and you have worked for it.
Your piton pulls loose and you pray in those few seconds that the next holds... and the next, until you jerk to a stop. Your heart is thumping and it isn't until you are hugging rock again that you look down and gulp.. and then, look up and continue to climb.Life is about the journey...cause it all ends the same1 -
Dracheimflug✭✭✭navystylz_ESO wrote: »
Game challenge? No matter how difficult, If it doesn't come with consequences for failure.. it's not much of a challenge... It's a different mindset, that's all. I'm all about the journey, the story.. until it's all about the challenge.. and then it has to have failure consequences....otherwise.. what's the point?
I understand the need for difficulty after one reaches a really high level and you have worked for it.
Your piton pulls loose and you pray in those few seconds that the next holds... and the next, until you jerk to a stop. Your heart is thumping and it isn't until you are hugging rock again that you look down and gulp.. and then, look up and continue to climb.
And every year people die on mountains because they felt the need to just keep pushing the risk level. If you are seeking a hard core permadeath game, perhaps ESO is simply not the right game for you? Or you can voluntarily play permadeath, deleting any character when they die, and going with PVP as your challenge source.
As for PvE content, it simply is not a given that games are infinitely upwards scale-able. No one has yet to invent a human equivalent AI, and if someone did, it would not necessarily be a good thing for the world.4 -
MikaHR✭✭✭✭✭Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Why don't you remove all your CP's, and take your gear off if you want difficulty for the sake of difficulty?
People already have, and it’s still pointlessly easybarney2525 wrote: »navystylz_ESO wrote: »barney2525 wrote: »navystylz_ESO wrote: »barney2525 wrote: »
You are right. No one mentioned the rewards.
But no one ever mentions their Real ultimate goals either.
Must be really nice for people like you to pull absolutely BS out their arse to attack that argument, rather than the on-going actual discussion. You have NEVER gotten good rewards from quest content. NEVER. So this fixation and pretending peopel thinking overland content is too easy because they want better rewards is just inane. Stop. Just stop.
Nope
If you had paid any attention, you would have seen I have been addressing the issue.
The idea that the Main Focus of this or any other game of this type is to have the "wandering monsters" be the most dangerous and horribly hard for characters to kill is just plain ridiculous. The character needs to get from point A to point B to pursue the actual Mission (whatever it may be). Overland is simply Filler. It's Nuisance. It is DESIGNED to be minimal effort - especially for higher powered characters. To think otherwise makes no sense. It is NOT a Major part of the game.
So, if I see someone so adamant about Making it some Major part of the game, I start wondering Why. It's Not because "it's too easy". That would be something you complain about if you get to a world boss and it falls over in 3 hits.
That's Not what Overland is. Overland is Not Supposed to be hard, and it is functioning Exactly as it is supposed to. You tell me - WHY DOES ANYONE CARE THAT IS IS EASY TO GET FROM POINT A TO POINT B?
IMHOI can run through everything just like I would with CP and gear on. There's virtually no chance of me dying against trash mobs, even the "bosses" of quests are not a challenge. When we talk about the game being too easy, this is the number one issue.But you know some of us, actually want a little bit of a challenge, we want to die to trash mobs if we aggro too many, ESPECIALLY in the overworld. Some of us want the bosses of quests or delves to be actually challenging
From the OP. And many of us clarified our positions with not including PBs, Dolmen, WBs. Explaining that the penultimate boss of a quest chain should feel like a boss. Though I have mentioned delves several times not included in the 'overland', I thought he meant the delve bosses that quests had you do, rather than the rando you kill because it's sits in there.It is NOT a Major part of the game.
It's a majority of the game. Most of the content is questing stuff that is overland and where that brings you. The content added each chapter and DLC, which continuously treats the whole world like it's an afterthought. That would have us suspend disbelief but tell us majordomo X is so powerful, and he dies in 2 hits.
Most of the time I quest I feel resentment that quest bits aren't instanced, that not only do I have to deal with extremely easy bosses, but there's a good chance some random person runs in and starts nuking them too. Now boss that I could kill in a few hits myself, instantly dies completely destroying any immersion in the story.Maybe I'm older than you are, But Nobody complains this hard about something this insignificant without having Something else that they want to accomplish.
Could be. Maybe not. Or could be that people just are incapable of arguing a position as stated. How hard is it to understand that this game with every chapter and DLC release, brings for another story arc. One that can be smashed through solo, but generally have a bunch of other players smashing through with you, extremely easily.
I came to the forums because after doing Elsweyr completion I just felt cheated. Most of the story was good but I left it feeling like the experience was cheapened by how easy it was. This left me feeling bored and wondering if that aspect of the game was even worth paying more money for.
At least in GW2 the living season come free as long as you are logged in during a particular bit. ESO makes you pay for it and the only reason I feel like this chapter was worth it is because the Necromancer. But I began to question redoing all the content of my original main on the new necromancer was actually going to keep me occupied without feeling like it was so easy that the story completion would leave me feeling more bored than entertained.
This is why I came to the forums. And lo and behold, right there on the first page was this thread with other people expressing the exact same concerns I was feeling.
I don't need more rewards. I don't need anything else except not feeling bored to tears doing the story content which makes up a majority of this game, and is only bearable when the storytelling is superb, which isn't always the case.
Disagree.
It's Not a Majority of the game because IF you want you can simply avoid it - Completely.
You do not have to fight Anything if you don't Choose to.
It Can't be considered a ' Majority ' of the game if it can be simply ignored.
I could not even estimate the many many many characters I have seen running across my screen, being pursued by several mobs. It's not that the character could not stop and kill them. The player just has better things to do - like reaching their actual objective and participating in whatever that issue is.
Overland is Flavor.
Now you’re just outright lying
Questing is not avoidable in any way. You need it for Psijic. You need it for crafting area access. You need it to have access to many dailies. You need it for skill points. You need it for Soul Magic. You need it to experience a damn story
You’re not some old wisened Yoda, you’re just being a nuisance who clearly has no interest in actual debate, who believes all players are infantile creatures that would immediately throw out the whole game if a quest boss actually had a chance to kill them.
Then start removing points from all your passives, and use only one bar, and don't LA weave. Just keep going down the list until you've found the right level of "difficulty" for yourself, then play the rest of the game that way.
That's like suggesting if someone is too smart for a class they should take a crowbar to their head until they are brain damaged enough to where that class challenges them - instead of seeking out a more challenging class they could actually have fun learning in.
It's preposterous.
In the context of a game with pre defined parameters, that's what you need to do if that is the thrill you seek.
I don't find purposely gimping myself thrilling. I find it stupid. In any context.
The end result is the same: A more difficult experience for you....which is what you are requesting.
No. Because what I am requesting is to have more fun while playing the game. There is nothing fun about purposely making my character suck. That's just dumb.
lulz, yeah you are demanding devs do it for you because you find doing it yourself "absurd" or "dumb" or w/e3 -
MikaHR✭✭✭✭✭Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Why don't you remove all your CP's, and take your gear off if you want difficulty for the sake of difficulty?
People already have, and it’s still pointlessly easybarney2525 wrote: »navystylz_ESO wrote: »barney2525 wrote: »navystylz_ESO wrote: »barney2525 wrote: »
You are right. No one mentioned the rewards.
But no one ever mentions their Real ultimate goals either.
Must be really nice for people like you to pull absolutely BS out their arse to attack that argument, rather than the on-going actual discussion. You have NEVER gotten good rewards from quest content. NEVER. So this fixation and pretending peopel thinking overland content is too easy because they want better rewards is just inane. Stop. Just stop.
Nope
If you had paid any attention, you would have seen I have been addressing the issue.
The idea that the Main Focus of this or any other game of this type is to have the "wandering monsters" be the most dangerous and horribly hard for characters to kill is just plain ridiculous. The character needs to get from point A to point B to pursue the actual Mission (whatever it may be). Overland is simply Filler. It's Nuisance. It is DESIGNED to be minimal effort - especially for higher powered characters. To think otherwise makes no sense. It is NOT a Major part of the game.
So, if I see someone so adamant about Making it some Major part of the game, I start wondering Why. It's Not because "it's too easy". That would be something you complain about if you get to a world boss and it falls over in 3 hits.
That's Not what Overland is. Overland is Not Supposed to be hard, and it is functioning Exactly as it is supposed to. You tell me - WHY DOES ANYONE CARE THAT IS IS EASY TO GET FROM POINT A TO POINT B?
IMHOI can run through everything just like I would with CP and gear on. There's virtually no chance of me dying against trash mobs, even the "bosses" of quests are not a challenge. When we talk about the game being too easy, this is the number one issue.But you know some of us, actually want a little bit of a challenge, we want to die to trash mobs if we aggro too many, ESPECIALLY in the overworld. Some of us want the bosses of quests or delves to be actually challenging
From the OP. And many of us clarified our positions with not including PBs, Dolmen, WBs. Explaining that the penultimate boss of a quest chain should feel like a boss. Though I have mentioned delves several times not included in the 'overland', I thought he meant the delve bosses that quests had you do, rather than the rando you kill because it's sits in there.It is NOT a Major part of the game.
It's a majority of the game. Most of the content is questing stuff that is overland and where that brings you. The content added each chapter and DLC, which continuously treats the whole world like it's an afterthought. That would have us suspend disbelief but tell us majordomo X is so powerful, and he dies in 2 hits.
Most of the time I quest I feel resentment that quest bits aren't instanced, that not only do I have to deal with extremely easy bosses, but there's a good chance some random person runs in and starts nuking them too. Now boss that I could kill in a few hits myself, instantly dies completely destroying any immersion in the story.Maybe I'm older than you are, But Nobody complains this hard about something this insignificant without having Something else that they want to accomplish.
Could be. Maybe not. Or could be that people just are incapable of arguing a position as stated. How hard is it to understand that this game with every chapter and DLC release, brings for another story arc. One that can be smashed through solo, but generally have a bunch of other players smashing through with you, extremely easily.
I came to the forums because after doing Elsweyr completion I just felt cheated. Most of the story was good but I left it feeling like the experience was cheapened by how easy it was. This left me feeling bored and wondering if that aspect of the game was even worth paying more money for.
At least in GW2 the living season come free as long as you are logged in during a particular bit. ESO makes you pay for it and the only reason I feel like this chapter was worth it is because the Necromancer. But I began to question redoing all the content of my original main on the new necromancer was actually going to keep me occupied without feeling like it was so easy that the story completion would leave me feeling more bored than entertained.
This is why I came to the forums. And lo and behold, right there on the first page was this thread with other people expressing the exact same concerns I was feeling.
I don't need more rewards. I don't need anything else except not feeling bored to tears doing the story content which makes up a majority of this game, and is only bearable when the storytelling is superb, which isn't always the case.
Disagree.
It's Not a Majority of the game because IF you want you can simply avoid it - Completely.
You do not have to fight Anything if you don't Choose to.
It Can't be considered a ' Majority ' of the game if it can be simply ignored.
I could not even estimate the many many many characters I have seen running across my screen, being pursued by several mobs. It's not that the character could not stop and kill them. The player just has better things to do - like reaching their actual objective and participating in whatever that issue is.
Overland is Flavor.
Now you’re just outright lying
Questing is not avoidable in any way. You need it for Psijic. You need it for crafting area access. You need it to have access to many dailies. You need it for skill points. You need it for Soul Magic. You need it to experience a damn story
You’re not some old wisened Yoda, you’re just being a nuisance who clearly has no interest in actual debate, who believes all players are infantile creatures that would immediately throw out the whole game if a quest boss actually had a chance to kill them.
Then start removing points from all your passives, and use only one bar, and don't LA weave. Just keep going down the list until you've found the right level of "difficulty" for yourself, then play the rest of the game that way.
That's like suggesting if someone is too smart for a class they should take a crowbar to their head until they are brain damaged enough to where that class challenges them - instead of seeking out a more challenging class they could actually have fun learning in.
It's preposterous.
In the context of a game with pre defined parameters, that's what you need to do if that is the thrill you seek.
I don't find purposely gimping myself thrilling. I find it stupid. In any context.
Then you aren't interested in challenge.
Move along.
Not when that challenge involves me stripping my character and purposely myself suck. You are right about that.... That doesn't interest me in the least.
And you're going to do what about it?
You have four basic options. They are thus.
1. You could modify your own experience through tinkering with your gear/CP/imposing various challenges on yours.
2. You could modify your expectations.
3. You could find something else to play that gives you the experience you desire.
4. You could complain on this forum about it, which has a 100% failure rate and will accomplish precisely nothing what so ever.
I don't think you're bad or wrong if you actually do want a different sort of challenge, but you have to acknowledge the reality of the situation. ZOS isn't going to make radical changes to the overworld experience. That's just not going to happen. There is no negotiation. It isn't even a discussion. They picked a direction with One Tamriel and they haven't budged from it one bit since. That's pretty heavily telling.
Nobody on this forum can help you change the game. You're stuck with options 1, 2 or 3 for anything with any practical value at all.
I don't know why you think asking for improvements on the forum has 100% failure rate. To be honest they have been fairly receptive to many of my complaints in the past. Not all of my requests have been honored mind you. But quite a few of them have been. So I'm actually optimistic they will do something about this one - especially considering how much traffic this issue gets on the forum. I think the developers are aware there is a problem with the way their content scales in respect to high-end players. That's probably one of the reasons they are taking another look at their CP system.
Asking for improvements on the forum? Maybe more like a 99% failure rate.
Asking for complete overhauls of the basic difficulty of the game in its entirety as some are doing? 100% failure rate. No company is going to embark on the grand expenditure of time and money to overhaul a game because a minority of its players want to turn it into the lovechild of Dark Souls and Witcher 2 'Insane' Difficulty mode.
Asking for cheap/easy accommodations that require minimal expenditures of time and money and run little to no risk of damaging the retention rates or accelerating churn? Somewhere between 99% and 100% failure rate.
That's been my experience of how it goes on MMO forums anyway, and this one doesn't seem to be any different than any others I've participated in.
I remember complaining on this forum about how easy it was to out-level zones and how they needed to increase a scaling mechanism so players could enjoy content at their own pace. Guess what they did? They implemented a complete overhaul of the game's progression system to allow for just that.
Many players were complaining about veteran ranks and how it was a tedious grind. Guess what they did? They implemented a complete overhaul of the endgame leveling system to make it less of a grind.
So I don't believe criticisms in this regard are warranted. ON other games, certainly. But the developers of this game have been fairly receptive and have shown they are willing to overhaul entire systems.
I also complained often and loudly on here that 2-handed weapons should count twice toward a set bonus so that 2-handed builds could make use of two 5-set bonuses and a monster set as well. They ended up doing just that as well.
Those are just a few examples. I could give you more, but i'll leave it there in order to keep things brief. So I think I have good reasons to be optimistic here.
And NONE of that was changed because you (or few others) complained on the forums. Game was overhauled because it died....and it had exactly what you are asking for now, in fact youre asking for them to basically revert the changes and make the game as it was at launchEdited by MikaHR on May 31, 2019 8:36AM6 -
MikaHR✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »myskyrim26 wrote: »Hey OP, take off your golden gear, reset CPs to zero and go make quests. Have fun seeing your character dead again and agian.
@myskyrim26
Ok, I will make 3000 gold sacrifice for new guest of discussion. CP810 character with CP reset. No food. No gear. No abilities. Racial and class passives active, I'm not ready to sacrifice 20k gold for you sorry. All attributes to magicka, which is useless for fighting naked.
CP810 parameters without CP, but with racials.
Damage done, ~1.5x lower considering stamina+WD. So yeah if newbies won't distribute CP on their road to CP160 they will suffer from decreasing damage.
Damage received, as we can see damage from kick is exactly the same as for lvl11, so there is no "tremendous buff to low-levels which will diminish to lvl30" in part of damage resistance.
P.S. CMX bugged in terms of critical damage for this case, I will include log of damage where it's clearly seen that crit is 1.5x, not 1.59x.
And whole vMA can be done with bow light attacks or just bash.
Your point again?1 -
MikaHR✭✭✭✭✭Sylvermynx wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Why don't you remove all your CP's, and take your gear off if you want difficulty for the sake of difficulty?
People already have, and it’s still pointlessly easybarney2525 wrote: »navystylz_ESO wrote: »barney2525 wrote: »navystylz_ESO wrote: »barney2525 wrote: »
You are right. No one mentioned the rewards.
But no one ever mentions their Real ultimate goals either.
Must be really nice for people like you to pull absolutely BS out their arse to attack that argument, rather than the on-going actual discussion. You have NEVER gotten good rewards from quest content. NEVER. So this fixation and pretending peopel thinking overland content is too easy because they want better rewards is just inane. Stop. Just stop.
Nope
If you had paid any attention, you would have seen I have been addressing the issue.
The idea that the Main Focus of this or any other game of this type is to have the "wandering monsters" be the most dangerous and horribly hard for characters to kill is just plain ridiculous. The character needs to get from point A to point B to pursue the actual Mission (whatever it may be). Overland is simply Filler. It's Nuisance. It is DESIGNED to be minimal effort - especially for higher powered characters. To think otherwise makes no sense. It is NOT a Major part of the game.
So, if I see someone so adamant about Making it some Major part of the game, I start wondering Why. It's Not because "it's too easy". That would be something you complain about if you get to a world boss and it falls over in 3 hits.
That's Not what Overland is. Overland is Not Supposed to be hard, and it is functioning Exactly as it is supposed to. You tell me - WHY DOES ANYONE CARE THAT IS IS EASY TO GET FROM POINT A TO POINT B?
IMHOI can run through everything just like I would with CP and gear on. There's virtually no chance of me dying against trash mobs, even the "bosses" of quests are not a challenge. When we talk about the game being too easy, this is the number one issue.But you know some of us, actually want a little bit of a challenge, we want to die to trash mobs if we aggro too many, ESPECIALLY in the overworld. Some of us want the bosses of quests or delves to be actually challenging
From the OP. And many of us clarified our positions with not including PBs, Dolmen, WBs. Explaining that the penultimate boss of a quest chain should feel like a boss. Though I have mentioned delves several times not included in the 'overland', I thought he meant the delve bosses that quests had you do, rather than the rando you kill because it's sits in there.It is NOT a Major part of the game.
It's a majority of the game. Most of the content is questing stuff that is overland and where that brings you. The content added each chapter and DLC, which continuously treats the whole world like it's an afterthought. That would have us suspend disbelief but tell us majordomo X is so powerful, and he dies in 2 hits.
Most of the time I quest I feel resentment that quest bits aren't instanced, that not only do I have to deal with extremely easy bosses, but there's a good chance some random person runs in and starts nuking them too. Now boss that I could kill in a few hits myself, instantly dies completely destroying any immersion in the story.Maybe I'm older than you are, But Nobody complains this hard about something this insignificant without having Something else that they want to accomplish.
Could be. Maybe not. Or could be that people just are incapable of arguing a position as stated. How hard is it to understand that this game with every chapter and DLC release, brings for another story arc. One that can be smashed through solo, but generally have a bunch of other players smashing through with you, extremely easily.
I came to the forums because after doing Elsweyr completion I just felt cheated. Most of the story was good but I left it feeling like the experience was cheapened by how easy it was. This left me feeling bored and wondering if that aspect of the game was even worth paying more money for.
At least in GW2 the living season come free as long as you are logged in during a particular bit. ESO makes you pay for it and the only reason I feel like this chapter was worth it is because the Necromancer. But I began to question redoing all the content of my original main on the new necromancer was actually going to keep me occupied without feeling like it was so easy that the story completion would leave me feeling more bored than entertained.
This is why I came to the forums. And lo and behold, right there on the first page was this thread with other people expressing the exact same concerns I was feeling.
I don't need more rewards. I don't need anything else except not feeling bored to tears doing the story content which makes up a majority of this game, and is only bearable when the storytelling is superb, which isn't always the case.
Disagree.
It's Not a Majority of the game because IF you want you can simply avoid it - Completely.
You do not have to fight Anything if you don't Choose to.
It Can't be considered a ' Majority ' of the game if it can be simply ignored.
I could not even estimate the many many many characters I have seen running across my screen, being pursued by several mobs. It's not that the character could not stop and kill them. The player just has better things to do - like reaching their actual objective and participating in whatever that issue is.
Overland is Flavor.
Now you’re just outright lying
Questing is not avoidable in any way. You need it for Psijic. You need it for crafting area access. You need it to have access to many dailies. You need it for skill points. You need it for Soul Magic. You need it to experience a damn story
You’re not some old wisened Yoda, you’re just being a nuisance who clearly has no interest in actual debate, who believes all players are infantile creatures that would immediately throw out the whole game if a quest boss actually had a chance to kill them.
Then start removing points from all your passives, and use only one bar, and don't LA weave. Just keep going down the list until you've found the right level of "difficulty" for yourself, then play the rest of the game that way.
That's like suggesting if someone is too smart for a class they should take a crowbar to their head until they are brain damaged enough to where that class challenges them - instead of seeking out a more challenging class they could actually have fun learning in.
It's preposterous.
In the context of a game with pre defined parameters, that's what you need to do if that is the thrill you seek.
I don't find purposely gimping myself thrilling. I find it stupid. In any context.
Then you aren't interested in challenge.
Move along.
Challenge is key part of gameplay, but not the only part. Another essential part of any RPG is your build. You may go for full glass-cannon build in VMA for example with reward of higher scores but this will require times more skill then completing VMA as petsorc or WW. But in overland even if you are full glass cannon you still cannot die.. so if you remove your armor etc you will simply kill mobs longer, but they still can't kill you if you do basic actions like not standing in aoe and blocking/dodging heavy attacks. So now you will propose not to dodge aoes and heavy attacks? what's left of gameplay then? you don't have build, you can't use CP perks which unlock mechanics, you can't use active defense, you can't use heals.. so you just stay in front of mobs in aoe light attacking them and then you finally die and feel accomplishment - "I finally found challenge"?
I know.
The whole point of an RPG is to make your character more powerful by collecting gear and experience. This idea that you should remove all of that to try and make the game more fun is like saying you should get rid of the football to have fun on a football field. It defeats the whole purpose of the game itself - at which point there is really no point in playing it at all.
Um. Have to disagree. The whole point of an RPG is that I have fun playing it. And RP'ing it. Right now, with new faster 'net, I'm going to be able to do stuff I haven't been able to do before - like bar swapping.... And I'm going to fully enjoy that. But the bottom line for me is - I am having fun in this game.
When it stops being fun, I'll stop playing it. Making overland harder? Eh, nope thanks. I play games (especially TES) for the stories.
Now.... I'm on board for a toggle that gives people like you a DiD option. Go for it, ZOS. And when you die repeatedly.... well... remember you asked for it.
Hit dog barks.
I’d recommend actually reading the OP before posting comments unrelated to what’s being asked for. Also, if a tiny modicum of challenge would make a game unfun, then what you want is a graphic novel, not a game. There is no immersing yourself as hero in a world that poses no threat. No boss can kill you unless you quite literally stand in place and don’t attack with any weapon (which is given in the tutorials), no abilities (which are recommended by the level up advisor), no food (which you loot), no potions (which the game throws at you), no enchants (which are also thrown at you), you don’t block (which is taught in the tutorial), don’t bash (tutorial), and don’t dodge roll
We want actual quest bosses, we want something that gives a sense of accomplishment when we defeat it instead of feeling like we just stepped on a small bug because someone claimed that bug was a huge monsterous fiend that was nigh unstoppable to all challengers before we arrived
I can count on one hand the quest bosses that remotely felt like a boss, even with no CP, with no food, while standing on reds, not even following basic mechanics of the game.
The game sets up a big fight and a strong villain, and it fails to deliver in every way.
It is completely and utterly unreasonable, as well as plain stupid, to imply that the right way to get a challenge in the vast majority of this game’s content is to ignore everything the game has ever provided, and use none of the basic knowledge the TUTORIAL teaches you, then light attack everything to death.
That’s what you’re suggesting, to be crap at the game intentionally, and even then, the enemies still aren’t a threat. It’s ridiculous
Yeah, it would make game unfun for vast majority, game already died once when it was like YOU want it to be. Dont see it dieing now, in fact most agree its in its best shape since launch.Edited by MikaHR on May 31, 2019 8:43AM6 -
Jhalin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭the reality of the challenging games is that it just takes a moment to figure out the flow of the combat and timing and get used to it and then execute it. and harder games don't leave you much margin for error. kinda like DLC veteran dungeons. which most ESO people oh so love /sarcasm. the other truth is that most people NEED that margin for error. without it the game becomes impossible for them.
Everyone makes difficulty tuning sound so binary... it either has to be easy enough for the lowest common denominator or it has to be too difficult for the majority of the players? Personally, I think most of the game should live in the space between learning how combat works and small margins for error.
I don't think we should expect most players to ever get to vet DLC dungeon difficulty (or want to). I don't think that means expecting everyone else to never grasp combat 101.
its not the understanding. its the execution of said understanding. and it is. that. binary. you either have someone who CAN execute and execute quickly and for them, the moment they learn - it stops being challenging. or you have people who have trouble with execution and need that margin for error, for the fights to be forgiving. the fact that these fights are so forgiving is quite literally the main part of "its too easy" complaint
Difficulty in an ARPG (or whatever you want to call it) like this doesn't just come down to reaction times. For example, at what level do you think a player should learn when to eat food or drink a potion? At some level, should the difficulty should be tuned assuming that the character has eaten food and is carrying a potion? If so, how long do you think a new player should take to figure this out (assuming proper tutorials)... if not, what exactly is the problem with expecting people to use consumables in ESO if they need help?
and how do you propose to tune that? enforce eating food or drinks that have health component? not all of them do. enforce enchanting for health? we already get potions as rewards, but not a ton of them, so are we enforcing crafting or buying those potions now? are we going to start enforcing minimum health now? a knowledgeable player just gets more health and all the challenge is gone for them. just. like. that.
again.
meanwhile someone who doesn't have a crafter available to get those potions/food going - are stuck.
Who needs a crafter to get food/potions? People practically throw them away, especially lower levels ones on the guild trader assuming you don't have plenty from just looting the scenery. So you demonstrate that it's not just about reaction times that people can't overcome.. it's about any slight inconvenience that anyone is unwilling to even try to overcome, like learning anything at all about the game or choosing to apply what you've learned.
You make this newbies sound like a real miserable group of layabouts! I'm more optimistic--I think that most people are capable of getting better at this game and having fun doing it, there's just not good incentive to do it. People end up as DPS in dungeon groups only spamming bow light attacks in heavy armor with magicka self heals because there's really no reason not to before then.
I'm sure there are some poor souls who need as much consideration as you would give them, but I personally haven't been exposed to players so delicate that they had no hope of improving. There's no point in deciding what sort of difficulty increase would be trivial for veterans if any difficulty increase at all is off the table. (This is also assuming that it's impossible to have separate difficulties like we do in the rest of the game).
1. its not merely about improving. its about creating unnecessary discouraging obstacles
2. it fascinates me that rather then save yourself some gold and play overworld without potions and food, you'd rather force newer players who are still figuring things out and don't have gold reserves to just go around shopping guild traders for potions and food, hoping that there is something available pre lvl 50 they can use.
1. A MINOR DIFFICULTY is not “”unnecessarily discouraging””. In fact is encouraging players to use the tactics that were taught to to them. To use the resources throw at them at every moment.
2. You’re pulling this out your rear end. The game throws potions, poisons, exp scrolls, and soul gems at players for free every month, on top of being thrown at them any time they loot enemies. Potions and glyphs are easily obtained jut by killing things, food is literally sitting on tables free for the taking in just about any human-populated delve.
You really are just dead set against any kind of challenge. Anything that might threaten the visual novel questing we have right now. Why do you want the whole of questing to be effortless and boring? What good does it do? Do you really think players are so bad and lazy that they wouldn’t use the tools provided to them when it would actually give a needed boost?Edited by Jhalin on May 31, 2019 8:06AM4 -
mague✭✭✭✭✭The Elsweyr Terror Bird.
According to Razum Dar only the Daedroth is more dangerous then a Terror Bird.
Ok, here i am. 5 pieces defensive Paria, 5 pieces sustain through acrobat. All impen and no monster set. Just two Swords of Agility.
Three birds attacking me. One caltrops and each bird a Twin Slash. Once the 3rd bird got his slash, the 1st bird already drops dead.
From a RPG standpoint this isnt to bad and can be fun. Really, i mean it. But Terror Birds ? And, just for the records, the Daedroth droped as fast as the birds. And no remarkable dangerous oblivion damage.
/sighEdited by mague on May 31, 2019 8:07AM4 -
MikaHR✭✭✭✭✭the reality of the challenging games is that it just takes a moment to figure out the flow of the combat and timing and get used to it and then execute it. and harder games don't leave you much margin for error. kinda like DLC veteran dungeons. which most ESO people oh so love /sarcasm. the other truth is that most people NEED that margin for error. without it the game becomes impossible for them.
Everyone makes difficulty tuning sound so binary... it either has to be easy enough for the lowest common denominator or it has to be too difficult for the majority of the players? Personally, I think most of the game should live in the space between learning how combat works and small margins for error.
I don't think we should expect most players to ever get to vet DLC dungeon difficulty (or want to). I don't think that means expecting everyone else to never grasp combat 101.
its not the understanding. its the execution of said understanding. and it is. that. binary. you either have someone who CAN execute and execute quickly and for them, the moment they learn - it stops being challenging. or you have people who have trouble with execution and need that margin for error, for the fights to be forgiving. the fact that these fights are so forgiving is quite literally the main part of "its too easy" complaint
Difficulty in an ARPG (or whatever you want to call it) like this doesn't just come down to reaction times. For example, at what level do you think a player should learn when to eat food or drink a potion? At some level, should the difficulty should be tuned assuming that the character has eaten food and is carrying a potion? If so, how long do you think a new player should take to figure this out (assuming proper tutorials)... if not, what exactly is the problem with expecting people to use consumables in ESO if they need help?
Food and potions should NEVER be required for quest/overland content.
Bumping damage/health even 100x wont change a thing if you know how to dodge. Or should we just ban dodging and make bunch of unavoidable damage like GW2 did, making it completely useless and make you suck up all damage mandatory?
We might go back to tab target combat at that point.Edited by MikaHR on May 31, 2019 8:35AM2 -
MikaHR✭✭✭✭✭PFFT. I remember playing ESO at the PC/Mac launch, and overland content way way more difficult back then — and even more so once you finished the story in one faction and entered the veteran zones on the other factions (this is pre-Tamriel One).
I also remember ladies and gents complaining then about difficulty. If ZoS brings that level of difficulty back, it's likely going to lose a chunk of its player base. So it'd be up to the remaining — "I want it tough!" — player base to pay ZoS's bills. Methinks the "Remainers" wouldn't be numerous enough to do so.
Then there'd be no ESO for anyone. Bottom line? When making requests, it's critical to take into account the financial impact of game changes, and ways to mitigate it.
There was a game made specifically for them *khm* Wildstar *khm*.
Didnt last a year....just like launch ESO. And they are still deluded that ESO was completely reworked because some were complaining on the forums.
99% of playerbase never even visit the forums.7 -
MikaHR✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »^ i specially dodged several times to toggle that comment of yours. If you deny dodging you just prove how pointless your arguments are since dodging is basic mechanic of any action game.
But ok, no dodge, and i even increased my dps on 20% and received way less hits, since I became more experienced in fighting naked
Damage done
Damage received
so instead of dodging around giant, you just ran around him. the point. still. stands. you know how to move, you know how to play. what is it that you want exactly? one shots from the giant? so that people who don't have your reflexes have no chance at all? where is the fun in THAT? you know for people who are not you?
the reality of the challenging games is that it just takes a moment to figure out the flow of the combat and timing and get used to it and then execute it. and harder games don't leave you much margin for error. kinda like DLC veteran dungeons. which most ESO people oh so love /sarcasm. the other truth is that most people NEED that margin for error. without it the game becomes impossible for them.
so what can ZoS do... add one shots? increase mob health? speed up their attacks so that dodging is harder and requires more precise timing? eventually, people like you get used to it and it stops being challenging again, and meanwhile everyone else is left in a dust.
Those all screenshots are to prove that issue is not in CP or golden weapons, purple food, good item sets whatever (though all of that is rather easily achievable), like many people try to push. On every page there is somebody new who tells - remove your CP and quests will be challenging. No, they won't be.
So veteran players need separate instances where mobs will be faster and more dangerous, and quest bosses will require tactics to defeat them. There is no need to invent something new, there is already fast and dangerous mobs in DLC dungeons and quest/delve bosses might be similar to stalking dremora's of Imperial City Sewers. And this should be separate instance so "nobody will be left in dust".
You may ask why devs should bother? But they bother with dungeons like MHK and Frostvault where even in normal version only chance for newbie players to complete it is to be carried by occasional cp810 veteran. And I even agree for this mode to cost additional money, "like veteran overland upgrade" whatever. So what ZOS should do? gather feedback if there will be enough buyers for this new mode and implement it if they see it will make customers happy and their revenue higher.
Oh riiiiiiiiiiiight, now devs should make COMPLETELY new game with COMPLETELY different combat mechanics just to accomodate few whiners on forums.
It aint happening....EVER, VET zones were completely DEAD when they existed, and those were just scaled normal versions.
DLC dungeons are second biggets FAIL on ESOs part after Craglorn (but if they continue like that those will overtake Craglorn REALLY fast)
Go play Wildstar, that was game made specifically for you.Edited by MikaHR on May 31, 2019 8:14AM5 -
Mitaka211✭✭✭✭I agree , i really enjoy the vet dungeons but the world content is way too easy. The fact you can solo world bosses is unacceptable to me. Hard content motivates people to group together simple as that. All the games that tried to please casual players became shallow and a bore to play.
It is not about whining or whatever it is just a fact.
Take mino for example or the imperfect. Cool bosses sure. But me being able to solo them while drinking coffee and smoking a cigarette , while watching a tv show in the background really speaks for itself doesn't it.3 -
Chadak✭✭✭✭✭Sylvermynx wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Why don't you remove all your CP's, and take your gear off if you want difficulty for the sake of difficulty?
People already have, and it’s still pointlessly easybarney2525 wrote: »navystylz_ESO wrote: »barney2525 wrote: »navystylz_ESO wrote: »barney2525 wrote: »
You are right. No one mentioned the rewards.
But no one ever mentions their Real ultimate goals either.
Must be really nice for people like you to pull absolutely BS out their arse to attack that argument, rather than the on-going actual discussion. You have NEVER gotten good rewards from quest content. NEVER. So this fixation and pretending peopel thinking overland content is too easy because they want better rewards is just inane. Stop. Just stop.
Nope
If you had paid any attention, you would have seen I have been addressing the issue.
The idea that the Main Focus of this or any other game of this type is to have the "wandering monsters" be the most dangerous and horribly hard for characters to kill is just plain ridiculous. The character needs to get from point A to point B to pursue the actual Mission (whatever it may be). Overland is simply Filler. It's Nuisance. It is DESIGNED to be minimal effort - especially for higher powered characters. To think otherwise makes no sense. It is NOT a Major part of the game.
So, if I see someone so adamant about Making it some Major part of the game, I start wondering Why. It's Not because "it's too easy". That would be something you complain about if you get to a world boss and it falls over in 3 hits.
That's Not what Overland is. Overland is Not Supposed to be hard, and it is functioning Exactly as it is supposed to. You tell me - WHY DOES ANYONE CARE THAT IS IS EASY TO GET FROM POINT A TO POINT B?
IMHOI can run through everything just like I would with CP and gear on. There's virtually no chance of me dying against trash mobs, even the "bosses" of quests are not a challenge. When we talk about the game being too easy, this is the number one issue.But you know some of us, actually want a little bit of a challenge, we want to die to trash mobs if we aggro too many, ESPECIALLY in the overworld. Some of us want the bosses of quests or delves to be actually challenging
From the OP. And many of us clarified our positions with not including PBs, Dolmen, WBs. Explaining that the penultimate boss of a quest chain should feel like a boss. Though I have mentioned delves several times not included in the 'overland', I thought he meant the delve bosses that quests had you do, rather than the rando you kill because it's sits in there.It is NOT a Major part of the game.
It's a majority of the game. Most of the content is questing stuff that is overland and where that brings you. The content added each chapter and DLC, which continuously treats the whole world like it's an afterthought. That would have us suspend disbelief but tell us majordomo X is so powerful, and he dies in 2 hits.
Most of the time I quest I feel resentment that quest bits aren't instanced, that not only do I have to deal with extremely easy bosses, but there's a good chance some random person runs in and starts nuking them too. Now boss that I could kill in a few hits myself, instantly dies completely destroying any immersion in the story.Maybe I'm older than you are, But Nobody complains this hard about something this insignificant without having Something else that they want to accomplish.
Could be. Maybe not. Or could be that people just are incapable of arguing a position as stated. How hard is it to understand that this game with every chapter and DLC release, brings for another story arc. One that can be smashed through solo, but generally have a bunch of other players smashing through with you, extremely easily.
I came to the forums because after doing Elsweyr completion I just felt cheated. Most of the story was good but I left it feeling like the experience was cheapened by how easy it was. This left me feeling bored and wondering if that aspect of the game was even worth paying more money for.
At least in GW2 the living season come free as long as you are logged in during a particular bit. ESO makes you pay for it and the only reason I feel like this chapter was worth it is because the Necromancer. But I began to question redoing all the content of my original main on the new necromancer was actually going to keep me occupied without feeling like it was so easy that the story completion would leave me feeling more bored than entertained.
This is why I came to the forums. And lo and behold, right there on the first page was this thread with other people expressing the exact same concerns I was feeling.
I don't need more rewards. I don't need anything else except not feeling bored to tears doing the story content which makes up a majority of this game, and is only bearable when the storytelling is superb, which isn't always the case.
Disagree.
It's Not a Majority of the game because IF you want you can simply avoid it - Completely.
You do not have to fight Anything if you don't Choose to.
It Can't be considered a ' Majority ' of the game if it can be simply ignored.
I could not even estimate the many many many characters I have seen running across my screen, being pursued by several mobs. It's not that the character could not stop and kill them. The player just has better things to do - like reaching their actual objective and participating in whatever that issue is.
Overland is Flavor.
Now you’re just outright lying
Questing is not avoidable in any way. You need it for Psijic. You need it for crafting area access. You need it to have access to many dailies. You need it for skill points. You need it for Soul Magic. You need it to experience a damn story
You’re not some old wisened Yoda, you’re just being a nuisance who clearly has no interest in actual debate, who believes all players are infantile creatures that would immediately throw out the whole game if a quest boss actually had a chance to kill them.
Then start removing points from all your passives, and use only one bar, and don't LA weave. Just keep going down the list until you've found the right level of "difficulty" for yourself, then play the rest of the game that way.
That's like suggesting if someone is too smart for a class they should take a crowbar to their head until they are brain damaged enough to where that class challenges them - instead of seeking out a more challenging class they could actually have fun learning in.
It's preposterous.
In the context of a game with pre defined parameters, that's what you need to do if that is the thrill you seek.
I don't find purposely gimping myself thrilling. I find it stupid. In any context.
Then you aren't interested in challenge.
Move along.
Challenge is key part of gameplay, but not the only part. Another essential part of any RPG is your build. You may go for full glass-cannon build in VMA for example with reward of higher scores but this will require times more skill then completing VMA as petsorc or WW. But in overland even if you are full glass cannon you still cannot die.. so if you remove your armor etc you will simply kill mobs longer, but they still can't kill you if you do basic actions like not standing in aoe and blocking/dodging heavy attacks. So now you will propose not to dodge aoes and heavy attacks? what's left of gameplay then? you don't have build, you can't use CP perks which unlock mechanics, you can't use active defense, you can't use heals.. so you just stay in front of mobs in aoe light attacking them and then you finally die and feel accomplishment - "I finally found challenge"?
I know.
The whole point of an RPG is to make your character more powerful by collecting gear and experience. This idea that you should remove all of that to try and make the game more fun is like saying you should get rid of the football to have fun on a football field. It defeats the whole purpose of the game itself - at which point there is really no point in playing it at all.
Um. Have to disagree. The whole point of an RPG is that I have fun playing it. And RP'ing it. Right now, with new faster 'net, I'm going to be able to do stuff I haven't been able to do before - like bar swapping.... And I'm going to fully enjoy that. But the bottom line for me is - I am having fun in this game.
When it stops being fun, I'll stop playing it. Making overland harder? Eh, nope thanks. I play games (especially TES) for the stories.
Now.... I'm on board for a toggle that gives people like you a DiD option. Go for it, ZOS. And when you die repeatedly.... well... remember you asked for it.
Hit dog barks.
Right. And what makes an RPG "fun? Getting cool new gear and more experience so you can grow more powerful and learn more skills.
Do you know what makes an RPG less fun? At least to me? Stripping your character of all his gear and experience which you've spent years collecting and working hard to achieve. To be honest with you - I could not think of a better way to ruin an RPG. This whole prospect of stripping your character of his gear and experience to have "more fun" sounds so ridiculous and absurd to me I can't even take it seriously.
If I just wanted to read stories - I'd go to the library. Combat matters to me in an RPG - a lot. As does the overall game play. And having to run around naked just doesn't work for me. Maybe if I was at the beach with some girls that'd be my thing. But when I play an MMORPG running around naked just isn't something I'm interested in doing.
And that's fine if you don't want to see the landscape difficulty increased. What I am arguing for here is an optional veteran zone to quest in for people who do care about combat and don't want to have to run around naked reading stories. So what I am suggesting in this thread would not affect you in any way. Nor am I asking for the difficulty to be heightened to such a degree that I would die repeatedly. I am just asking for a modest challenge increase to make the combat interesting again.
I'm not about to sit here and try to tell someone what is or isn't fun, as that'd be as insane as trying to tell someone what they do and don't like to eat. Straight subjectivity, is what it is, and I can even say I agree with some of what you said here.
I play these kinds of games mostly for the story. That's the #1 draw for me, but a close #2 is if the game itself is fun to play.
I like theorycrafting, I like number crunching, I like finding outlier/outsider/oddball ways to put together builds and I'm pretty sure I've spent more time here on ESO farming/crafting/buying up all the gear sets so I could try different combinations of things out for myself just to see what I liked and what I didn't, mostly with the oddjob little proc sets.
My endgame, as they say, also includes a lot of building on my houses for funsies. I go crazy in a good builder. I've been building in build editors since TES Morrowind's toolset, which made me learn the skills that put me on the line to run some Neverwinter Nights persistent servers for quite a few years.
Long unsought biography short - I know what I like. Chances are you do too, and I've got nothing but respect for folks that know what they like and don't mess around putting a point on that.
Here's where it seems to me that you and I do a 180 on eachother's position though - I don't look for things that aren't here.
ESO has challenging content. I don't personally find overworld content to be even slightly challenging, but neither am I looking for it to be. I understand the role of overworld content - that's the entry level stuff. That's the 'Everyone should be able to do this, even one-armed Timmy over there' content.
Overworld content isn't and should never be made to challenge me, or almost nobody else will be able to play it. Even I don't want to be playing Dark Souls every time I fight a mud crab. These MMO type games require a lot of repetitive activities, i.e: farming for mats and zone drop gear and whatnot.
You might think it'd be the most amazing thing ever for every mudcrab battle to feel like fighting Ornstein and Smough, but if that were the case, I bet even you'd get really sick of that after, say...6 months.
What you want isn't here in the overworld content. It never will be. I'm not saying this out of some bleeding heart 'SJW' garbage position of sentimentality either - I don't give a crap about the sentiment of any of this.
What I care about is that this game remain financially successful, and whoever has the gold makes the rules.
Casual gamers outnumber hardcore types by just about 'All of them' to one. Wildstar is an infamous failure to respect the sociocultural realities of the gaming population, but it isn't the only one. Wizardry Online tried to make itself the game that it sounds like you might've had permanent joygasms to play.
It didn't last a year, and the biggest driving reason why wasn't that it was badly made or its rough launch - people deal with those issues all the time. It was because it alienated the casual gamer, and just like that, 99.9% of its potential market was shoved out the door and told to go drown itself.
That's why ESO is so easy in so many places, and unless you can change reality itself to make the gaming demographic give a crap about anything you'll ever say about it, the facts remain as unyielding as physics - most people don't want a hard MMO.
And when I say most, I suggest thinking of that as being a supermajority of the 95-99% variety. I don't know the numbers, but I have been playing these games for decades and I've seen all the trends. I'm not completely ignorant of where MMO's started and how they've gone from there to here.
Some people crave more challenging opportunities for conquest once they master the basics, but most seem not to. Most seem content to roll around in a game like this, farm their mats, sell their junk and socialize. Used to see it in Ultima Online a lot; we permared lunatics used to berate them for being 'Townies' that did nothing but sit in Moonglow and Brit and do nothing but craft things for the vendors they'd teleport to and from and never, ever risk anything if they could at all avoid it.
The 'townies' got so prevalent that Ultima Online created Trammel; a no PVP 'side' of the game.
That was a shade over 19 years ago, and over those years, I've watched that trend expand. It has never gone retrograde and it has never deviated, which is perfectly consistent with effort justification traits common to humanity at large.
The vast majorities of people want to feel like they've accomplished something, but they don't want to have to actually work hard to get to that feeling. They don't always need tangible rewards to arrive at that feeling.
It's why things like achievement systems and achievement points and leaderboards are so wildly successful - they make people feel like they've accomplished something. But often enough, those require substantive effort, and most people will take the easiest routes to feeling like they've accomplished something, not the hardest.
Broken down simply and what I'm saying here is this - you're trying to fight the trends caused by human nature, and that's a fight you lost before you were even born and knew it was there to pick.
Might as well pick a fight with the sunrise, or get mad at the 2nd law of Thermodynamics.
ESO is a product of the cumulative effects of human nature as expressed through the development of systems that are intended to have the broadest appeal to as many humans as possible.
Those majorities do not want to work hard for anything if they can avoid it. They want to feel like they've accomplished something, and ESO, as with many games like it, is packed with little things feeding that desire.
You don't think it's accidental that it's so easy to harvest crafting mats and that there are so many to harvest, do you? That's on purpose. There's always something for you to click. There's always a some trash mob or group of trash mobs for you to mow down in 1-2 seconds.
You're not part of that overwhelming majority. You don't feel satisfied by the feelgood gimmicks that make the huge majorities feel like they accomplished at least a little something just by running across part of a zone map, blowing some stuff up and collecting 50 different nodes.
You're clearly the type that wants to feel like you're hurting after a good workout so it lets you know you did something, and you won't find that type of experience here in ESO outside of maybe the veteran content, until you get used to it and even that becomes routine.
You might find it in veteran raids, but the real challenge there is coordinating with other people. The content itself is challenging only until you get a coordinated team that knows all the dance steps and puts it on farm.
PvP might be more your style, but I don't personally enjoy ESO's pvp and I've only ever bothered with it to the extents that I have because I wanted the Legate Black dye (wasn't worth it) and because one of my RL friends is a pvp addict and in perpetually desperate need of an audience and a babysitter.
You're not new to ESO though. You know what the challenges are and aren't here, and you're clearly not finding what you want.
Nobody here can help you with that. ZOS might tweak and modify their CP system, but I promise you, they aren't going to go retrograde against two decades' worth of a trend towards favoring the money of the supermajority over all else.
Everything that tries to turn against that tide gets crushed immediately by it. ESO tried to turn against that tide and went B2P and One Tamriel'd so fast that heads are still spinning over it.
Wildstar and Wizardry Online thought they could fight human nature too. ESO at least surrendered and has the IP value to have bounced back in a big way once it got with the program and offered the supermajority what it wants - an overglorified chatroom with graphics, combat systems, regular infusions of story content and challenging stuff instanced off where nobody has to accidentally stumble into it.
Because it isn't even remotely accidental that ZOS has thrown more into housing than they have into a lot of other things either. People tend to feel attached to the things they've made. They often overvalue them and will commonly go to irrational lengths to preserve them.
ZOS isn't here to train people to be more skillful gamers. They're here to make money.
I don't know if you've forgotten that or maybe haven't really considered the severity of just how true that is, but what you're looking for? That challenge you desire?
There's no money worth chasing in it for them, or they'd be chasing it. They are, in fact, chasing it to the extents they see as being worthwhile - through DLC dungeons and raids.
They're always going to be tweaking and tinkering with things. They're always going to be messing with gear sets and dealing with their power creep, but it won't be because they're adopting a new design philosophy that will see them suddenly deciding to cater to the highly skilled players.
They've given us vMA, DLC dungeons and vet raids. Chances are good that those are of more psychological value than practical, because it gives everyone a sense of something to work towards even if most never get there and never really want to.
That's important too. A great many people love to look out their window and see a hill to climb, even if they'd punch you in the throat for suggesting they actually go climb it.3 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I always thought trash mobs were SUPPOSED to be easy
Elite mobs and delve/quest bosses aren't supposed to be easy because they are marked as Elite. Still as I showed it a couple pages ago, you can kill them with bare fists and no gear not only on new character with boons for newbies, but even on CP160+ character without that boon and literally 500 dps and 8k HP. I won't say it was effortless, but i was not using any abilities, and using even 1 (one) of them will immediately turn that encounter to effortless.3 -
MikaHR✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »I always thought trash mobs were SUPPOSED to be easy
Elite mobs and delve/quest bosses aren't supposed to be easy because they are marked as Elite. Still as I showed it a couple pages ago, you can kill them with bare fists and no gear not only on new character with boons for newbies, but even on CP160+ character without that boon and literally 500 dps and 8k HP. I won't say it was effortless, but i was not using any abilities, and using even 1 (one) of them will immediately turn that encounter to effortless.
And thats the cost of MEHCANICS....once you know the MECAHNICS it is past you and there is NOTHING that can be done to make it harder except removing mechanics and plain make things like dodge completely uselsee by making damage UNAVOIDABLE.
Lets go back to tab target combat at that point.Edited by MikaHR on May 31, 2019 8:57AM1 -
MikaHR✭✭✭✭✭I agree , i really enjoy the vet dungeons but the world content is way too easy. The fact you can solo world bosses is unacceptable to me. Hard content motivates people to group together simple as that. All the games that tried to please casual players became shallow and a bore to play.
It is not about whining or whatever it is just a fact.
Take mino for example or the imperfect. Cool bosses sure. But me being able to solo them while drinking coffee and smoking a cigarette , while watching a tv show in the background really speaks for itself doesn't it.
All games that tried to cater to hardcores are dead or had to be completely reworked...including launch ESO.
It is just a fact.Edited by MikaHR on May 31, 2019 8:45AM5 -
Chrysa1is✭✭✭✭✭
✭I 100% agree that delve, public and quest bosses should be made alot harder. They need more than 100k health. Give them health equivalent to non vet dungeon bosses or world bosses.5 -
Grandesdar✭✭✭I enjoy it as it is. There's harder content in the game for those that enjoy that. I'm playing for the story not the challenge. Not everything in the game has to cater to the same type of players. If this game would suddenly become much harder I would just quit and play some other game where I can enjoy a good story and relax a little.
There really isn't. Trials and vet dlc dungeons are a jok ewhen you go there with a proper group. ESO PvE is too easy, and it's not just overland.
Then it's high time for you to go outside and have a life. Honestly, when I hear such comments "vet trials are too ez" they are either trying hard to impress or have like 12 maxed out toons and been playing 8 hours a day for years.
The game overland content is no way easy, I just got like 3 FPS centered friends starting ESO 2 weeks ago, oh boy, the pain we go through to keep them alive and interested.
But if you have CPs, extensive game knowledge, know animation cancelling, know how to work a build and the tricks of the combat system, then yeah, it should be easy for you. Duh.Edited by Grandesdar on May 31, 2019 9:45AMMain: The Charismatic StamDK DD
Side: A Handsome Warden Healer
Side: (upcoming) Stam Necro DD
CP: 680
EU PSN: Style35136 -
Reistr_the_Unbroken✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wifeaggro13 wrote: »Seriously.. people... RPG.. ROLE PLAYING GAME....
Your role might be the superhero that saves the day, the mage/ healer that saves the super hero.. The Tank that protects ... So you want that challenge.. you need to slay those villains...
My role? The Bard that sing's in the tavern, that tells the story of the Superhero as seen from far..far away ( and interviews over mead ).. Who sell's those Alchemy ingredients to your Healer.. She avoids all confrontations..
As my friend Rick always said.. their is NO right way to play the game...
Riding Club... Role playing Game.. cause everyone needs better equipment to go kill..errrr no.. to buy a better horse, saddle.. more XP to jump higher.. ( only all the kids get the same XP.. don't need the little girls crying )
Isn't the SIM's an RPG? The only thing dying is your pet if you forget to water/ feed it.
Not everyone plays and RPG for the same reason.. not even close.
I played DnD in the 80's as well. but our DM was all about smart, not brute force... then again.. Geeks, who got bullied by Jocks... I just thought they were fun. .. DnD was fun.. Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy.. confused the tar outa me!
Thing is.. you want harder? Fine.. I really could care less.. until it affect's me.. I like the OW the way it is.
except there are no bards in eso lol
I’m still sad they didn’t keep Bals voice from Skyrim, I kinda like that better than the other, but the others also kinda growing on me0 -
Kamatsu✭✭✭✭Bumping damage/health even 100x wont change a thing if you know how to dodge. Or should we just ban dodging and make bunch of unavoidable damage like GW2 did, making it completely useless and make you suck up all damage mandatory?
Yeah! Let ZOS make the exact same mistake that ANet did by taking a casual friendly open world and turning into a more difficult group-friendly slog instead! I'm sure ZOS is willing to bet they also won't suffer a 60+% revenue loss like ANet did when they upped the overland difficulty for everyone in GW2.
The thing I see in this thread a lot is asking for ZOS to revamp the game so that it has escalating difficulty, and then into 'veteran' zones... this is exactly what the game had prior to 1T. What was the result? People would play till they finished 1 faction's campaign, hit 'veteran' level and suddenly find the game was basically unplayable for them unless they could group... and left the game, never to come back.
Craglorn was a dismal failure because it was super hard to do solo, was really group-focused (ie group or never complete anything, unless your really good) and due to the huge drop off of players who would even reach there... there weren't the players willing to struggle with the grouping requirements just to experience the story.
So because of dropping player numbers, which meant dropping revenues due to lack of ppl paying for subs... ZOS revamped the whole game with 1T, made ESO sub optional, made the game much more easy... and the game was revived off it's deathbed and back to life. Do you honestly think ZOS is going to revert back to how ESO used to be where it was a dying game?
I do support an optional difficulty - however the problem with this is there's no real way to implement it in ESO completely.
- Due to the way overland and the scaling system works a toggle system won't really work... sure you can have a toggle which does the same effect as say taking off your gear, removing cp, etc... but without ai changes, skill changes, etc to mobs you'll still find it too easy.
- If you put in ai changes, skill changes, etc to make mobs harder... you've just effected everyone, and that is no longer optional.
- Some have suggested a 'tagging' system, but that's too open to intentional & non-intentional griefing. It also detracts from the whole openness of ESO in regards to allowing anyone and everyone to attack the same mobs for xp, gold, loot.
- - The only solution to the above issue is to change the whole open-to-all system back to extreme old-school MMO tagging. Which opens up it's own set of problems that open-for-all fixed.
Realistically there's only 2 options open for ZOS to provide an optional difficulty toggle:
1. Make it effect 'instanced' area's only. So separate quest instances, delves, public dungeons, etc can be done at a harder difficulty for those who toggle to a hard-mode instead of normal. This will keep overworld easy, and keep you interacting with everyone apart from when in the 'hard-mode' instances.
2. Create whole new server / world instance for just those who toggle hard-mode on. So if you toggle it on you then get moved to a 'hard-mode' world/instance/server where you'll only be able to play with others who have the toggle on.
ZOS can't realistically do anything else and not have it effect everyone. This is because to actually make things harder for those who want a challenge... they'll need to do more than just buff mobs and/or debuff players, they'll need to change the AI of mobs, the skills used, etc. There is no way to do that only for 'hard-mode' toggled players without separating them from the players who do not want/like the added difficulty.
Doing all that will take a fair amount of dev time to do, which cost's money. Maybe you should be petitioning ZOS to instead of doing the vet-dungeons DLC to take the time to work on a toggle-able hard-mode for separate instances. This way ZOS isn't spending extra dev time on it... however they will still lose out on the revenue from people buying the DLC dungeons. Although at this point, I'm not sure how many ppl are buying currency to buy the DLC dungeons... and how many are just using ESO+ to access them instead. It might in the end be worthwhile for ZOS to scrap the DLC dungeons and do this...
Although even then, how the heck will ESO's server's cope with even more instances/worlds? They struggle as it is between PvE & PvP, and all the ppl and stuff going on... add in anymore instance/world layers and they might just break unless ZOS actually upgrades them.o_O3 -
Wifeaggro13✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wifeaggro13 wrote: »Sylvermynx wrote: »Ydrisselle wrote: »Sylvermynx wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Why don't you remove all your CP's, and take your gear off if you want difficulty for the sake of difficulty?
People already have, and it’s still pointlessly easybarney2525 wrote: »navystylz_ESO wrote: »barney2525 wrote: »navystylz_ESO wrote: »barney2525 wrote: »
You are right. No one mentioned the rewards.
But no one ever mentions their Real ultimate goals either.
Must be really nice for people like you to pull absolutely BS out their arse to attack that argument, rather than the on-going actual discussion. You have NEVER gotten good rewards from quest content. NEVER. So this fixation and pretending peopel thinking overland content is too easy because they want better rewards is just inane. Stop. Just stop.
Nope
If you had paid any attention, you would have seen I have been addressing the issue.
The idea that the Main Focus of this or any other game of this type is to have the "wandering monsters" be the most dangerous and horribly hard for characters to kill is just plain ridiculous. The character needs to get from point A to point B to pursue the actual Mission (whatever it may be). Overland is simply Filler. It's Nuisance. It is DESIGNED to be minimal effort - especially for higher powered characters. To think otherwise makes no sense. It is NOT a Major part of the game.
So, if I see someone so adamant about Making it some Major part of the game, I start wondering Why. It's Not because "it's too easy". That would be something you complain about if you get to a world boss and it falls over in 3 hits.
That's Not what Overland is. Overland is Not Supposed to be hard, and it is functioning Exactly as it is supposed to. You tell me - WHY DOES ANYONE CARE THAT IS IS EASY TO GET FROM POINT A TO POINT B?
IMHOI can run through everything just like I would with CP and gear on. There's virtually no chance of me dying against trash mobs, even the "bosses" of quests are not a challenge. When we talk about the game being too easy, this is the number one issue.But you know some of us, actually want a little bit of a challenge, we want to die to trash mobs if we aggro too many, ESPECIALLY in the overworld. Some of us want the bosses of quests or delves to be actually challenging
From the OP. And many of us clarified our positions with not including PBs, Dolmen, WBs. Explaining that the penultimate boss of a quest chain should feel like a boss. Though I have mentioned delves several times not included in the 'overland', I thought he meant the delve bosses that quests had you do, rather than the rando you kill because it's sits in there.It is NOT a Major part of the game.
It's a majority of the game. Most of the content is questing stuff that is overland and where that brings you. The content added each chapter and DLC, which continuously treats the whole world like it's an afterthought. That would have us suspend disbelief but tell us majordomo X is so powerful, and he dies in 2 hits.
Most of the time I quest I feel resentment that quest bits aren't instanced, that not only do I have to deal with extremely easy bosses, but there's a good chance some random person runs in and starts nuking them too. Now boss that I could kill in a few hits myself, instantly dies completely destroying any immersion in the story.Maybe I'm older than you are, But Nobody complains this hard about something this insignificant without having Something else that they want to accomplish.
Could be. Maybe not. Or could be that people just are incapable of arguing a position as stated. How hard is it to understand that this game with every chapter and DLC release, brings for another story arc. One that can be smashed through solo, but generally have a bunch of other players smashing through with you, extremely easily.
I came to the forums because after doing Elsweyr completion I just felt cheated. Most of the story was good but I left it feeling like the experience was cheapened by how easy it was. This left me feeling bored and wondering if that aspect of the game was even worth paying more money for.
At least in GW2 the living season come free as long as you are logged in during a particular bit. ESO makes you pay for it and the only reason I feel like this chapter was worth it is because the Necromancer. But I began to question redoing all the content of my original main on the new necromancer was actually going to keep me occupied without feeling like it was so easy that the story completion would leave me feeling more bored than entertained.
This is why I came to the forums. And lo and behold, right there on the first page was this thread with other people expressing the exact same concerns I was feeling.
I don't need more rewards. I don't need anything else except not feeling bored to tears doing the story content which makes up a majority of this game, and is only bearable when the storytelling is superb, which isn't always the case.
Disagree.
It's Not a Majority of the game because IF you want you can simply avoid it - Completely.
You do not have to fight Anything if you don't Choose to.
It Can't be considered a ' Majority ' of the game if it can be simply ignored.
I could not even estimate the many many many characters I have seen running across my screen, being pursued by several mobs. It's not that the character could not stop and kill them. The player just has better things to do - like reaching their actual objective and participating in whatever that issue is.
Overland is Flavor.
Now you’re just outright lying
Questing is not avoidable in any way. You need it for Psijic. You need it for crafting area access. You need it to have access to many dailies. You need it for skill points. You need it for Soul Magic. You need it to experience a damn story
You’re not some old wisened Yoda, you’re just being a nuisance who clearly has no interest in actual debate, who believes all players are infantile creatures that would immediately throw out the whole game if a quest boss actually had a chance to kill them.
Then start removing points from all your passives, and use only one bar, and don't LA weave. Just keep going down the list until you've found the right level of "difficulty" for yourself, then play the rest of the game that way.
That's like suggesting if someone is too smart for a class they should take a crowbar to their head until they are brain damaged enough to where that class challenges them - instead of seeking out a more challenging class they could actually have fun learning in.
It's preposterous.
In the context of a game with pre defined parameters, that's what you need to do if that is the thrill you seek.
I don't find purposely gimping myself thrilling. I find it stupid. In any context.
Then you aren't interested in challenge.
Move along.
Challenge is key part of gameplay, but not the only part. Another essential part of any RPG is your build. You may go for full glass-cannon build in VMA for example with reward of higher scores but this will require times more skill then completing VMA as petsorc or WW. But in overland even if you are full glass cannon you still cannot die.. so if you remove your armor etc you will simply kill mobs longer, but they still can't kill you if you do basic actions like not standing in aoe and blocking/dodging heavy attacks. So now you will propose not to dodge aoes and heavy attacks? what's left of gameplay then? you don't have build, you can't use CP perks which unlock mechanics, you can't use active defense, you can't use heals.. so you just stay in front of mobs in aoe light attacking them and then you finally die and feel accomplishment - "I finally found challenge"?
I know.
The whole point of an RPG is to make your character more powerful by collecting gear and experience. This idea that you should remove all of that to try and make the game more fun is like saying you should get rid of the football to have fun on a football field. It defeats the whole purpose of the game itself - at which point there is really no point in playing it at all.
Um. Have to disagree. The whole point of an RPG is that I have fun playing it. And RP'ing it. Right now, with new faster 'net, I'm going to be able to do stuff I haven't been able to do before - like bar swapping.... And I'm going to fully enjoy that. But the bottom line for me is - I am having fun in this game.
When it stops being fun, I'll stop playing it. Making overland harder? Eh, nope thanks. I play games (especially TES) for the stories.
Now.... I'm on board for a toggle that gives people like you a DiD option. Go for it, ZOS. And when you die repeatedly.... well... remember you asked for it.
Hit dog barks.
I’d recommend actually reading the OP before posting comments unrelated to what’s being asked for. Also, if a tiny modicum of challenge would make a game unfun, then what you want is a graphic novel, not a game. There is no immersing yourself as hero in a world that poses no threat. No boss can kill you unless you quite literally stand in place and don’t attack with any weapon (which is given in the tutorials), no abilities (which are recommended by the level up advisor), no food (which you loot), no potions (which the game throws at you), no enchants (which are also thrown at you), you don’t block (which is taught in the tutorial), don’t bash (tutorial), and don’t dodge roll
We want actual quest bosses, we want something that gives a sense of accomplishment when we defeat it instead of feeling like we just stepped on a small bug because someone claimed that bug was a huge monsterous fiend that was nigh unstoppable to all challengers before we arrived
I can count on one hand the quest bosses that remotely felt like a boss, even with no CP, with no food, while standing on reds, not even following basic mechanics of the game.
The game sets up a big fight and a strong villain, and it fails to deliver in every way.
It is completely and utterly unreasonable, as well as plain stupid, to imply that the right way to get a challenge in the vast majority of this game’s content is to ignore everything the game has ever provided, and use none of the basic knowledge the TUTORIAL teaches you, then light attack everything to death.
That’s what you’re suggesting, to be crap at the game intentionally, and even then, the enemies still aren’t a threat. It’s ridiculous
It seems you doesn't know Sylvermynx - she had 2000+ ms ping with a bad connection up until now, so she had very little chance to block, dodge or bash. Your suggestion would mean she shouldn't play at all...
There is a recommended spec for a reason when you purchase digital games. If you hardware crashes every time you play because it’s under the recommended specs, that’s on you. If your connection is well under a playable standard, that’s also on you.
The devs should not design around 2k ping players. Same as if you play a multiplayer game, you accept you will face leaver penalties the same as anyone else if you consistently DC mid-match.
Eh, I never asked the devs to "design around" my ping. I dealt with it. Sure it's better now. But the thing is.... I could tell that even with optimal 'net, stuff was going to be hard for me to kill - because the combat system is.... strange. Seriously. It's still strange. A year on - and with better 'net.
i do agree the combat system doe not lend itself well to a role based MMO. its far to twitchy with weaving and ani canceling. its less about group dynamic as it is about meta dps and how to achieve it in what is refered to as end game. i hope you dont take it as the community thinks you should adapt or die i think its more about it not having any diffculty increase as you progress through the game .
Is it though? less about group dynamic or perhaps too many people are too concerned with "end game".. rewards.
What if I wanted to form a group whose main purpose is to collect and read every book in ESO? Find, read, discuss and move on to finding the next book. The dynamic of that group would be more about common interest and less about "power"..
Seriously , I know that wouldn't happen.. just saying. That's a Role Playing Group.. where everyone is looking to the same story.... not the end of the game.. the journey.
Then again... to me, that is what life is all about.. the journey.. cause we all end life the same way.
I'm talking about the group dynamic that is present in most traditional MMOs . Nothing is stopping you from forming a group to collect books . We are talking strictly combat dynamics and value of roles filled in a group.0 -
Aireal✭✭✭Dracheimflug wrote: »navystylz_ESO wrote: »
Game challenge? No matter how difficult, If it doesn't come with consequences for failure.. it's not much of a challenge... It's a different mindset, that's all. I'm all about the journey, the story.. until it's all about the challenge.. and then it has to have failure consequences....otherwise.. what's the point?
I understand the need for difficulty after one reaches a really high level and you have worked for it.
Your piton pulls loose and you pray in those few seconds that the next holds... and the next, until you jerk to a stop. Your heart is thumping and it isn't until you are hugging rock again that you look down and gulp.. and then, look up and continue to climb.
And every year people die on mountains because they felt the need to just keep pushing the risk level. If you are seeking a hard core permadeath game, perhaps ESO is simply not the right game for you? Or you can voluntarily play permadeath, deleting any character when they die, and going with PVP as your challenge source.
As for PvE content, it simply is not a given that games are infinitely upwards scale-able. No one has yet to invent a human equivalent AI, and if someone did, it would not necessarily be a good thing for the world.
Ummm no, I actually like the difficulty exactly where it is.
Nice to know people read everything you write...
Bullet points;
- like the difficulty
- think an option for Vet mode ( or equivalent) is a great idea
- don't think Zos will add it - what we have is what it is
- -don't think RP is all about how powerful and making it to upper limits in leveling
- find ways to make gameplay more challenging on my own including playing Dead is Dead when I start to think a game is 'to easy'
Sorry sore spot.. my friends and I were NOT extremists... we used all safety precautions.. only climbed well-known paths. Manufacturers defect is a horrid way to die.Life is about the journey...cause it all ends the same0 -
Wifeaggro13✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sylvermynx wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Why don't you remove all your CP's, and take your gear off if you want difficulty for the sake of difficulty?
People already have, and it’s still pointlessly easybarney2525 wrote: »navystylz_ESO wrote: »barney2525 wrote: »navystylz_ESO wrote: »barney2525 wrote: »
You are right. No one mentioned the rewards.
But no one ever mentions their Real ultimate goals either.
Must be really nice for people like you to pull absolutely BS out their arse to attack that argument, rather than the on-going actual discussion. You have NEVER gotten good rewards from quest content. NEVER. So this fixation and pretending peopel thinking overland content is too easy because they want better rewards is just inane. Stop. Just stop.
Nope
If you had paid any attention, you would have seen I have been addressing the issue.
The idea that the Main Focus of this or any other game of this type is to have the "wandering monsters" be the most dangerous and horribly hard for characters to kill is just plain ridiculous. The character needs to get from point A to point B to pursue the actual Mission (whatever it may be). Overland is simply Filler. It's Nuisance. It is DESIGNED to be minimal effort - especially for higher powered characters. To think otherwise makes no sense. It is NOT a Major part of the game.
So, if I see someone so adamant about Making it some Major part of the game, I start wondering Why. It's Not because "it's too easy". That would be something you complain about if you get to a world boss and it falls over in 3 hits.
That's Not what Overland is. Overland is Not Supposed to be hard, and it is functioning Exactly as it is supposed to. You tell me - WHY DOES ANYONE CARE THAT IS IS EASY TO GET FROM POINT A TO POINT B?
IMHOI can run through everything just like I would with CP and gear on. There's virtually no chance of me dying against trash mobs, even the "bosses" of quests are not a challenge. When we talk about the game being too easy, this is the number one issue.But you know some of us, actually want a little bit of a challenge, we want to die to trash mobs if we aggro too many, ESPECIALLY in the overworld. Some of us want the bosses of quests or delves to be actually challenging
From the OP. And many of us clarified our positions with not including PBs, Dolmen, WBs. Explaining that the penultimate boss of a quest chain should feel like a boss. Though I have mentioned delves several times not included in the 'overland', I thought he meant the delve bosses that quests had you do, rather than the rando you kill because it's sits in there.It is NOT a Major part of the game.
It's a majority of the game. Most of the content is questing stuff that is overland and where that brings you. The content added each chapter and DLC, which continuously treats the whole world like it's an afterthought. That would have us suspend disbelief but tell us majordomo X is so powerful, and he dies in 2 hits.
Most of the time I quest I feel resentment that quest bits aren't instanced, that not only do I have to deal with extremely easy bosses, but there's a good chance some random person runs in and starts nuking them too. Now boss that I could kill in a few hits myself, instantly dies completely destroying any immersion in the story.Maybe I'm older than you are, But Nobody complains this hard about something this insignificant without having Something else that they want to accomplish.
Could be. Maybe not. Or could be that people just are incapable of arguing a position as stated. How hard is it to understand that this game with every chapter and DLC release, brings for another story arc. One that can be smashed through solo, but generally have a bunch of other players smashing through with you, extremely easily.
I came to the forums because after doing Elsweyr completion I just felt cheated. Most of the story was good but I left it feeling like the experience was cheapened by how easy it was. This left me feeling bored and wondering if that aspect of the game was even worth paying more money for.
At least in GW2 the living season come free as long as you are logged in during a particular bit. ESO makes you pay for it and the only reason I feel like this chapter was worth it is because the Necromancer. But I began to question redoing all the content of my original main on the new necromancer was actually going to keep me occupied without feeling like it was so easy that the story completion would leave me feeling more bored than entertained.
This is why I came to the forums. And lo and behold, right there on the first page was this thread with other people expressing the exact same concerns I was feeling.
I don't need more rewards. I don't need anything else except not feeling bored to tears doing the story content which makes up a majority of this game, and is only bearable when the storytelling is superb, which isn't always the case.
Disagree.
It's Not a Majority of the game because IF you want you can simply avoid it - Completely.
You do not have to fight Anything if you don't Choose to.
It Can't be considered a ' Majority ' of the game if it can be simply ignored.
I could not even estimate the many many many characters I have seen running across my screen, being pursued by several mobs. It's not that the character could not stop and kill them. The player just has better things to do - like reaching their actual objective and participating in whatever that issue is.
Overland is Flavor.
Now you’re just outright lying
Questing is not avoidable in any way. You need it for Psijic. You need it for crafting area access. You need it to have access to many dailies. You need it for skill points. You need it for Soul Magic. You need it to experience a damn story
You’re not some old wisened Yoda, you’re just being a nuisance who clearly has no interest in actual debate, who believes all players are infantile creatures that would immediately throw out the whole game if a quest boss actually had a chance to kill them.
Then start removing points from all your passives, and use only one bar, and don't LA weave. Just keep going down the list until you've found the right level of "difficulty" for yourself, then play the rest of the game that way.
That's like suggesting if someone is too smart for a class they should take a crowbar to their head until they are brain damaged enough to where that class challenges them - instead of seeking out a more challenging class they could actually have fun learning in.
It's preposterous.
In the context of a game with pre defined parameters, that's what you need to do if that is the thrill you seek.
I don't find purposely gimping myself thrilling. I find it stupid. In any context.
Then you aren't interested in challenge.
Move along.
Challenge is key part of gameplay, but not the only part. Another essential part of any RPG is your build. You may go for full glass-cannon build in VMA for example with reward of higher scores but this will require times more skill then completing VMA as petsorc or WW. But in overland even if you are full glass cannon you still cannot die.. so if you remove your armor etc you will simply kill mobs longer, but they still can't kill you if you do basic actions like not standing in aoe and blocking/dodging heavy attacks. So now you will propose not to dodge aoes and heavy attacks? what's left of gameplay then? you don't have build, you can't use CP perks which unlock mechanics, you can't use active defense, you can't use heals.. so you just stay in front of mobs in aoe light attacking them and then you finally die and feel accomplishment - "I finally found challenge"?
I know.
The whole point of an RPG is to make your character more powerful by collecting gear and experience. This idea that you should remove all of that to try and make the game more fun is like saying you should get rid of the football to have fun on a football field. It defeats the whole purpose of the game itself - at which point there is really no point in playing it at all.
Um. Have to disagree. The whole point of an RPG is that I have fun playing it. And RP'ing it. Right now, with new faster 'net, I'm going to be able to do stuff I haven't been able to do before - like bar swapping.... And I'm going to fully enjoy that. But the bottom line for me is - I am having fun in this game.
When it stops being fun, I'll stop playing it. Making overland harder? Eh, nope thanks. I play games (especially TES) for the stories.
Now.... I'm on board for a toggle that gives people like you a DiD option. Go for it, ZOS. And when you die repeatedly.... well... remember you asked for it.
Hit dog barks.
Right. And what makes an RPG "fun? Getting cool new gear and more experience so you can grow more powerful and learn more skills.
Do you know what makes an RPG less fun? At least to me? Stripping your character of all his gear and experience which you've spent years collecting and working hard to achieve. To be honest with you - I could not think of a better way to ruin an RPG. This whole prospect of stripping your character of his gear and experience to have "more fun" sounds so ridiculous and absurd to me I can't even take it seriously.
If I just wanted to read stories - I'd go to the library. Combat matters to me in an RPG - a lot. As does the overall game play. And having to run around naked just doesn't work for me. Maybe if I was at the beach with some girls that'd be my thing. But when I play an MMORPG running around naked just isn't something I'm interested in doing.
And that's fine if you don't want to see the landscape difficulty increased. What I am arguing for here is an optional veteran zone to quest in for people who do care about combat and don't want to have to run around naked reading stories. So what I am suggesting in this thread would not affect you in any way. Nor am I asking for the difficulty to be heightened to such a degree that I would die repeatedly. I am just asking for a modest challenge increase to make the combat interesting again.
Personaly I think even that does not go far enough. The game should become increasingly challenging in a moderate way as you gain levels and CP. The gamdesign should not let you light attack your way through content
with no reguard to teaching you how to play some basic roles, class builds , gear or some sort of tutorial about group play. The progression system is flat you can mash a couple buttons all the way from lvl 1 to max cp. Players hit the end game play and then have complete millenial breakdowns because the game is too hard and didnt throw gold gear at then for soloing a delve.
If Zos wants to fix what's broken they need to redo the cp system and fix the battle spirit scaling system. No one is trying torake the fun from the casual like everyone keeps attacking g you for. The long term player base just wants the progression to make sense and provide a reasonable amount of fun and challenge. Half the issue with end game is the non sense down hill progression that hits a very moderate difficulty group play for VR content.Edited by Wifeaggro13 on May 31, 2019 12:13PM2 -
Kolache✭✭✭✭1. its not merely about improving. its about creating unnecessary discouraging obstacles
2. it fascinates me that rather then save yourself some gold and play overworld without potions and food, you'd rather force newer players who are still figuring things out and don't have gold reserves to just go around shopping guild traders for potions and food, hoping that there is something available pre lvl 50 they can use.
It sounds like you would describe most game mechanics as "unnecessary discouraging obstacles."
Food? Unnecessary obstacle
Potions? Unnecessary obstacle
Dodging? Discriminates against impairments
Blocking? Discriminates against impairments
Interrupting? Discriminates against impairments
Finding gear? Unnecessary obstacle
Choosing which skills to use? Unnecessary obstacle
All solved by simply making a plethora of content for a person to read through without having to do any of these things because it's so trivial in difficulty. That really sounds more like Second Life than an Elder Scrolls game to me.
It fascinates me that you seem to imply that some people will never get past "still figuring things out". Like I said, at what point do we get to assume people are no longer newbies in ESO? Some time after intro quests/starter islands but sometime well before veteran DLC trials, I hope?Something being unbalanced in 1v1 does not imply that it is balanced in group play.3