Seriously, this game is too easy and the overworld needs to be buffed heavily.

Chadak

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

Chadak wrote: »

You're new to these threads. I can tell.

No, in fact I'm not. I'm actually of a mind of don't use an argument that doesn't exist in a thread yet. Too many people don't know the basics of arguing a position and use too many fallacies. Yo

Chadak wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

You are right. No one mentioned the rewards.

But no one ever mentions their Real ultimate goals either.

Must be really nice for people like you to pull absolutely BS out their arse to attack that argument, rather than the on-going actual discussion. You have NEVER gotten good rewards from quest content. NEVER. So this fixation and pretending peopel thinking overland content is too easy because they want better rewards is just inane. Stop. Just stop.

I feel, at this time, that you need to be informed of an obscure little thing that you probably won't have heard of before because it's so obscure and little known.

Where do you think overland sets come from?

I imagine nobody cares about those though.

Right?

Chadak wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

You are right. No one mentioned the rewards.

But no one ever mentions their Real ultimate goals either.

Must be really nice for people like you to pull absolutely BS out their arse to attack that argument, rather than the on-going actual discussion. You have NEVER gotten good rewards from quest content. NEVER. So this fixation and pretending peopel thinking overland content is too easy because they want better rewards is just inane. Stop. Just stop.

I feel, at this time, that you need to be informed of an obscure little thing that you probably won't have heard of before because it's so obscure and little known.

Where do you think overland sets come from?

I imagine nobody cares about those though.

Right?

I know where they come from. But you get all pieces outside of quest versions. How strong a quest boss is or isn't will not change what you get from opening a chest, killing a delve boss, doing a dolmen, or WB. All of these things will offer the whole set without ever touching the quest versions of these that normally don't even have the combination you want.

Now dailies are a different matter with coffers. Which also comes from mostly WBs.

Your argument doesn't stand. Nice try with obfuscating the real point being made.

Ohhhh, look at you move that goalpost! Run Forrest, Run!

I had nearly no interest in addressing you to begin with and that's hit negative levels. You're the one with no point because if you cared about difficulty, you'd set challenges for yourself and you'd never be bored again.

Clearly, you and others like you have a different objective in mind, because challenging yourselves wouldn't be even slightly difficulty...if that's what you wanted to do.

If. If only. Alas, the people that actually want what you claim to want already do that, or they, like reasonable adults, go find the game that gives them the challenge they desire rather than DEMANDING THAT THE ENTIRE GAME BE CHANGED TO ACCOMMODATE THEIR PERSONAL WISHES.

The game isn't going to be changed to accomodate the wishes of you or the others feignging all this moaning concern for what you feel you deserve because you're clearly the only paying customers playing ESO and how dare they not obey your whims.

Prove you're the one with a salient argument - go challenge yourself and stop crying about how ZOS isn't spoon feeding you the precise flavor of difficulty you desire.

Or go run a tabletop game. Then you can make it exactly as difficult as you think it should be.

barney2525

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

You are right. No one mentioned the rewards.

But no one ever mentions their Real ultimate goals either.

Must be really nice for people like you to pull absolutely BS out their arse to attack that argument, rather than the on-going actual discussion. You have NEVER gotten good rewards from quest content. NEVER. So this fixation and pretending peopel thinking overland content is too easy because they want better rewards is just inane. Stop. Just stop.

Nope

If you had paid any attention, you would have seen I have been addressing the issue.

The idea that the Main Focus of this or any other game of this type is to have the "wandering monsters" be the most dangerous and horribly hard for characters to kill is just plain ridiculous. The character needs to get from point A to point B to pursue the actual Mission (whatever it may be). Overland is simply Filler. It's Nuisance. It is DESIGNED to be minimal effort - especially for higher powered characters. To think otherwise makes no sense. It is NOT a Major part of the game.

So, if I see someone so adamant about Making it some Major part of the game, I start wondering Why. It's Not because "it's too easy". That would be something you complain about if you get to a world boss and it falls over in 3 hits.

That's Not what Overland is. Overland is Not Supposed to be hard, and it is functioning Exactly as it is supposed to. You tell me - WHY DOES ANYONE CARE THAT IS IS EASY TO GET FROM POINT A TO POINT B?


IMHO

I can run through everything just like I would with CP and gear on. There's virtually no chance of me dying against trash mobs, even the "bosses" of quests are not a challenge. When we talk about the game being too easy, this is the number one issue.

But you know some of us, actually want a little bit of a challenge, we want to die to trash mobs if we aggro too many, ESPECIALLY in the overworld. Some of us want the bosses of quests or delves to be actually challenging

From the OP. And many of us clarified our positions with not including PBs, Dolmen, WBs. Explaining that the penultimate boss of a quest chain should feel like a boss. Though I have mentioned delves several times not included in the 'overland', I thought he meant the delve bosses that quests had you do, rather than the rando you kill because it's sits in there.

It is NOT a Major part of the game.

It's a majority of the game. Most of the content is questing stuff that is overland and where that brings you. The content added each chapter and DLC, which continuously treats the whole world like it's an afterthought. That would have us suspend disbelief but tell us majordomo X is so powerful, and he dies in 2 hits.

Most of the time I quest I feel resentment that quest bits aren't instanced, that not only do I have to deal with extremely easy bosses, but there's a good chance some random person runs in and starts nuking them too. Now boss that I could kill in a few hits myself, instantly dies completely destroying any immersion in the story.

Maybe I'm older than you are, But Nobody complains this hard about something this insignificant without having Something else that they want to accomplish.

Could be. Maybe not. Or could be that people just are incapable of arguing a position as stated. How hard is it to understand that this game with every chapter and DLC release, brings for another story arc. One that can be smashed through solo, but generally have a bunch of other players smashing through with you, extremely easily.

I came to the forums because after doing Elsweyr completion I just felt cheated. Most of the story was good but I left it feeling like the experience was cheapened by how easy it was. This left me feeling bored and wondering if that aspect of the game was even worth paying more money for.

At least in GW2 the living season come free as long as you are logged in during a particular bit. ESO makes you pay for it and the only reason I feel like this chapter was worth it is because the Necromancer. But I began to question redoing all the content of my original main on the new necromancer was actually going to keep me occupied without feeling like it was so easy that the story completion would leave me feeling more bored than entertained.

This is why I came to the forums. And lo and behold, right there on the first page was this thread with other people expressing the exact same concerns I was feeling.

I don't need more rewards. I don't need anything else except not feeling bored to tears doing the story content which makes up a majority of this game, and is only bearable when the storytelling is superb, which isn't always the case.

Disagree.

It's Not a Majority of the game because IF you want you can simply avoid it - Completely.

You do not have to fight Anything if you don't Choose to.

It Can't be considered a ' Majority ' of the game if it can be simply ignored.

I could not even estimate the many many many characters I have seen running across my screen, being pursued by several mobs. It's not that the character could not stop and kill them. The player just has better things to do - like reaching their actual objective and participating in whatever that issue is.

Overland is Flavor.

Mintaka5

No it's not easy when everyone else is saying it's hard. You just are a seasoned player. Maybe you've end-gamed, so move on and let others work their way up.

kathandira

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

One thing I'm noticing--because I'm actually reading through all replies and only on page 10--is I'm not actually seeing anyone say overland difficulty is good where it's at because I'm finding it difficult.

There's this weird, SJW, apologist like thing going on, where everyone is thinking the the overland content difficulty is fine because their friend, family member, or noob they seen in the world is not doing it so well.

Is anyone in this thread responding actually having any difficulty themselves?! It's ok if you think it's easy but don't care because you don't look for a challenge when mashing out story. But I want to know who is actually having trouble that isn't some idea of a person that someone knows of or seen.

I feel it is appropriately challenging for the sort of enemies I am fighting. Considering that I have completed end game challenges and fought enemies that are a kin to gods, I feel a random bandit should be a cake walk that does not provide me with a challenge.

There are World Bosses that are still a challenge that I cannot kill in 2 hits, and I also find that appropriate as that is what they are intended for.

If for some reason a random cut purse was as difficult to kill as a World Boss, that simply wouldn’t make sense due to the challenges Ive faced in Dungeons and Trials.

Fair enough. But world bosses, while overland, wasn't included in the original overland is too easy discussion. Granted, you can get quests to do them, but they aren't part of the main story in general. No one is arguing world bosses are too easy.

That being said, when said bandit isn't random overland bandit, but bandit that has been terrorizing a village for X time and no one can take him out. You don't expect to kill him as fast as random overland bandit.

That being said, I also thing that if random overland group is doing a red spell charge that requires interrpting. Not doing so should hurt! If random overland bandit is charging a weapon power that requires blocking, taking the hit to the face should be meaty enough to teach players that they should step back or block that hit. Standing in circles of bad should chunk your health if you just decide to sit in it the whole duration.

These things teach people mechanics they take into group play, but they don't know how to do. This is not acceptable. It means the whole purpose of these mechanics being on overland mobs is completely and utterly pointless and are not teaching what their intent is.

I kinda do expect to kill that Bandit who was terrorizing a town for a long time. Considering what our characters have been through and accomplished, the villagers are like 4 year olds, and that bandit is like a 12 year old. Yeah the 4yr olds can't handle it, but we are seasoned Marines compared to that 12 year old.

But in vet content dungeons/trials those bandits have 300k+ HP already and if dps will be left with several of them for few seconds and won't kite/dodge them, dps will be killed. Elite mobs in vet content like golems/minotaurs/centurions have 900k+ HP and one-shot anybody other then blocking tank, while in overland they barely scratch you. So if you are talking about immersion, I'll agree that small mobs should be left expendable, but elite mobs and delve/quest bosses should be threatening to player. Not on the level of vet trial elite mobs of course, but certainly more powerful then now.
And situation is not that cp810 min-maxed character has pointlessly easy time in overland, it's even new characters without CP, food etc are like gods too (if they have knowledge about how damage dealing and mitigation works in ESO).

That is a fair point.

Which is why I feel rather than implementing a Vet Overland, we need to squeeze down the gap between a starter player, and a vet player stats wise.

At one point in one of these threads someone mentioned Vanilla WoW. The thing I really liked about the way stats worked in that was the value increases were pretty small. In ESO we are looking at the difference between 1,000 Weapon Damage, and a full buffed Vet player hitting upwards of 5,000 weapon damage. The way damage scales in this game, that is a really huge jump in damage. Even looking at enemy health, we go from a 30k hp enemy in overland, to 10s of millions of health in a Trial. The overall scaling in this game has gotten way out of control. A scaling squeeze could be a good thing for this game.

Chadak

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

Chadak wrote: »

You realize that out of the 1,000,000 +/- people that play this game, almost none of them interact on this forum, right?

You know what I've noticed. You simply cannot respond to an argument in a post without pulling some rando crap out from left field. Is your natural state when responding to just straw man every single thing you reply to? Have you no reading comprehension skills, or any kind of responding integrity to actually stick to what is being discussed.

I didn't speak to the whole population of ESO. I remarked on the phenomenon--that's especially prevalent in all walks of life from video games to politics--where people are championing or being an apologist for people that are not them.

My remark, was that, of all the people I see REPLYING--as in participating in this conversation, never once mentioning or pretending this conversation is the whole ESO community--it's a lot of people arguing on behalf of this idea of 'new players' rather than actually including themselves in this category. Or simply stating I think the difficulty is fine because I don't feel like thinking at all when smashing mobs in a quest. I mean, there were a few of those--and fair enough.

That being said. Forum posters are a small cut of the community. And should be a small cut of many types of the community. Being a small cut of said community who participates on the forums should also include a small cut of new players saying, indeed, this overland content is difficult to me.

Rather, I find people arguing on behalf of someone else--with a chunk of those arguments being hardware or personal issues, rather than being indicative of the game being actually challenging (overland).

My natural state is having over forty years of experience in dealing with clowns and every stupid excuse they contrive for all their primarily self-inflicted woes.

This whole topic is one of self-inflicted woe. The day you care about challenge will be the day you take responsibility for challenging yourself and make your own fun.

[snip]

I'm sure you think you've got so very many new and exciting things to say. You don't. This entire thread is a repeat of a thousand others like it. They change nothing. They do not matter. They will never matter because the tiny minorities that keep beating this dead horse aren't sufficiently representative of the targeted market to have opinions on this that ZOS is going to change course for.

So no, I don't slow walk my way through all of these repetitive rehashes of the same tired garbage. It's all been said before. You're saying nothing new, you haven't discovered some new angle or tangent and you haven't touched on anything that wasn't dead air YEARS ago.

YEARS.

So yeah, I forgive myself for not taking it or anyone like you seriously when your five watt lightbulb goes off over your head and you think 'GOSH, I WONDER IF ANYONE HAS EVER THOUGHT THIS AMAZING THING I AM THINKING BEFORE'.

Yeah. Pretty much everyone has. This merry go round has gone around so many times that if you went on a forum search, you'd see for yourself how it just doesn't die because you and your ninety-odd clones seem to think that if you keep making unreasonable demands, you'll finally get your way.

But you think your demands are reasonable, and that, in and of itself, is more the root of the problem than anything else.

[snip]

[edited for baiting]

Ydrisselle

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

Ydrisselle wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

One thing I'm noticing--because I'm actually reading through all replies and only on page 10--is I'm not actually seeing anyone say overland difficulty is good where it's at because I'm finding it difficult.

There's this weird, SJW, apologist like thing going on, where everyone is thinking the the overland content difficulty is fine because their friend, family member, or noob they seen in the world is not doing it so well.

Is anyone in this thread responding actually having any difficulty themselves?! It's ok if you think it's easy but don't care because you don't look for a challenge when mashing out story. But I want to know who is actually having trouble that isn't some idea of a person that someone knows of or seen.

Count me in. I always love to see how people like you claims the game is mind-numbingly easy. Well, I had problems in delves with 100k hp minibosses with my first character, and then with my second character, and then with the others too. I was lvl30 when I could solo a boss in a public dungeon for the first time. I was lvl45 at my first solo dolmen. I didn't soloed any world bosses yet, and I've reached CP632. I didn't even tried to solo any dungeons yet. I'm simply not good enough for those challenges,and I would hate any step to make overland harder.

You want a debuff for yourself to have challenging content? You can already do it right now: disable CP, wear white gear without any stats, and use a suboptimal skill build. If that's not enough for you, then nothing will be - since you are simply too good.

Sweety. I don't expect everyone to have read all 13 pages of responses like I did. But let me point out that:

Delve
Public Dungeon
Dolem
World Bosses

Were not included in the overland part being too easy. But all the story stuff you do questing, and especially where we are told how powerful a boss is and then 2 shot that boss.

While I would additionally argue that some of these story bosses might end up being in one of the aforementioned non-overland content, and should be a bit more difficult, that doesn't include all.

I would also argue if you can not solo it, then it's working as intended. I soloed bosses in original ESO before 1T. It took a long time, and it was because my concept build. But this is not the type of difficulty I'm advocating for general play. I do NOT think having to group for a boss is a crazy idea. They are supposed to be strong, and the new player, who's role is kind of a nobody at the moment, shouldn't have the difficulty so easy they are solo killing them as if they are the hero of the Ebonheart Pact already. Or that they have beat a Daedric Prince.

I do expect that if the game is giving you a visual clue a strong attack is happening, you can't just face tank that attack without performing the requisite response of: interrupt, block or dodge rolling out.

Let me quote myself from this thread:

Ydrisselle wrote: »

Are we here again?

Okay. I started ESO more seriously - which means not only in free weekends - after I get a key through Humble Bundle. I already had a ~lvl15 char, but I was not really inside the mechanics. This character was an AD sorcerer, so obviously I wandered in Auridon, and just reached Phaer with their vampire problem. The storyline brought me into a delve. And I was stuck there for almost a week, because I just couldn't do anything with a 100k hp miniboss in the middle of the delve. I went in, died, respawned, tried again, died and so on. The delve is only open for this quest, so you can't go there any time. One week later I went in again, after way too many death - and somebody else came after me, also doing this quest. Yay! I was able to go through the miniboss with the help, and then I finished the entire delve and my quest.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who got stuck on a harder quest boss while not knowing enough of the game to solve this kind of problem. Today I can cut down everything in this delve even with a low level character without using any CP, but that only means I have 1.5 years of experience with the fight system and mob mechanics.

It's a side quest, not the main quest of Auridon, but it's still a quest which I couldn't finish by myself because it ended in a delve. And it's not the only quest which brings you to a quest-only delve.

By the way I also read every response in this thread - including those which said "gave us harder overland content and better rweards for it!"

Massacre_Wurm

MentalxHammer wrote: »

95% of the dungeons are too easy, if the damage was more threatening than healers would actually see play again, and tanks would actually wear tank sets instead of sets to buff the group. 2 weeks ago I was able to complete vWGT as the tank using light armor wearing 2 damage sets and my only taunt was ice staff heavy attack. I didnt die once and we completed the dungeon with 3 players. Its fine if you don't want to buff the norm dungeons so introductory players will still have a fun experience, but 95% of vet dungeons need to feel more threatening.

Good for you. But majority of the players have troubles with simpliest mechanics like overlapping circles for extra dmg.

MartiniDaniels

Mintaka5 wrote: »

No it's not easy when everyone else is saying it's hard. You just are a seasoned player. Maybe you've end-gamed, so move on and let others work their way up.

We have comparable number of players from this threads who say overland is pointlessly easy, and who say overland is hard enough for combat to be engaging. And there is whole big crowd who DGAF since they completed those quests long ago, or don't plan to do questing at all and overland is just skyshards+surveys.
So it's not like "everyone else saying it's hard".

kathandira wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

One thing I'm noticing--because I'm actually reading through all replies and only on page 10--is I'm not actually seeing anyone say overland difficulty is good where it's at because I'm finding it difficult.

There's this weird, SJW, apologist like thing going on, where everyone is thinking the the overland content difficulty is fine because their friend, family member, or noob they seen in the world is not doing it so well.

Is anyone in this thread responding actually having any difficulty themselves?! It's ok if you think it's easy but don't care because you don't look for a challenge when mashing out story. But I want to know who is actually having trouble that isn't some idea of a person that someone knows of or seen.

I feel it is appropriately challenging for the sort of enemies I am fighting. Considering that I have completed end game challenges and fought enemies that are a kin to gods, I feel a random bandit should be a cake walk that does not provide me with a challenge.

There are World Bosses that are still a challenge that I cannot kill in 2 hits, and I also find that appropriate as that is what they are intended for.

If for some reason a random cut purse was as difficult to kill as a World Boss, that simply wouldn’t make sense due to the challenges Ive faced in Dungeons and Trials.

Fair enough. But world bosses, while overland, wasn't included in the original overland is too easy discussion. Granted, you can get quests to do them, but they aren't part of the main story in general. No one is arguing world bosses are too easy.

That being said, when said bandit isn't random overland bandit, but bandit that has been terrorizing a village for X time and no one can take him out. You don't expect to kill him as fast as random overland bandit.

That being said, I also thing that if random overland group is doing a red spell charge that requires interrpting. Not doing so should hurt! If random overland bandit is charging a weapon power that requires blocking, taking the hit to the face should be meaty enough to teach players that they should step back or block that hit. Standing in circles of bad should chunk your health if you just decide to sit in it the whole duration.

These things teach people mechanics they take into group play, but they don't know how to do. This is not acceptable. It means the whole purpose of these mechanics being on overland mobs is completely and utterly pointless and are not teaching what their intent is.

I kinda do expect to kill that Bandit who was terrorizing a town for a long time. Considering what our characters have been through and accomplished, the villagers are like 4 year olds, and that bandit is like a 12 year old. Yeah the 4yr olds can't handle it, but we are seasoned Marines compared to that 12 year old.

But in vet content dungeons/trials those bandits have 300k+ HP already and if dps will be left with several of them for few seconds and won't kite/dodge them, dps will be killed. Elite mobs in vet content like golems/minotaurs/centurions have 900k+ HP and one-shot anybody other then blocking tank, while in overland they barely scratch you. So if you are talking about immersion, I'll agree that small mobs should be left expendable, but elite mobs and delve/quest bosses should be threatening to player. Not on the level of vet trial elite mobs of course, but certainly more powerful then now.
And situation is not that cp810 min-maxed character has pointlessly easy time in overland, it's even new characters without CP, food etc are like gods too (if they have knowledge about how damage dealing and mitigation works in ESO).

That is a fair point.

Which is why I feel rather than implementing a Vet Overland, we need to squeeze down the gap between a starter player, and a vet player stats wise.

At one point in one of these threads someone mentioned Vanilla WoW. The thing I really liked about the way stats worked in that was the value increases were pretty small. In ESO we are looking at the difference between 1,000 Weapon Damage, and a full buffed Vet player hitting upwards of 5,000 weapon damage. The way damage scales in this game, that is a really huge jump in damage. Even looking at enemy health, we go from a 30k hp enemy in overland, to 10s of millions of health in a Trial. The overall scaling in this game has gotten way out of control. A scaling squeeze could be a good thing for this game.

Yes, one of the main of ESO problems is extreme level of impact from damage min-maxing in PVE. Damage coefficients are multiplicative, so the higher your modifiers the more you get from each single buff. If they were linear sum instead game will be way more healthy.
For example lets' take minor force.
Not min-maxed character has let's say 5k light attack and 40% crit chance, so minor force gives him 5k*0.4*0.1=200 extra damage to LA
Meanwhile min-maxed character has 10k light attack and 80% crit chance, so minor force gives him 10k*0.8*0.1=800 extra damage to LA
Given that light attacks are 20%+ of damage for magicka characters, first will receive only 1k extra dps from this buff, while min-maxed will receive 4k dps.

Sevn

exeeter702 wrote: »

Aireal wrote: »

Ingvar798_ESO wrote: »

Wanted to drop my 2c as I feel this issue is really hurting an otherwise amazing game.

I would not call myself a veteran player. I played the game at launch for a few months. Came back for Morrowind for a few weeks, and have now returned for Elsweyr.


Much to my dismay, having leveled my Necro to 50, all of this challenge is gone. I quickly realized that I could pull 10+ mobs at a time and AoE them down, all while keeping my health near max (thanks scythe ability). Group content is easily solo-able, even Skyreach/Craglorn. To be fair, there's a few pieces of content that I had trouble soloing in Craglorn.

To me this makes the Overworld content very bland/boring. I do enjoy the story in ESO, but most of the time the immersion is completely ruined by some NPC telling me how dangerous this guy is, and then I run over and 3 shot them and all their goons. The story fundamentally breaks in these incidents. Personally the content in Overworld felt so boring that I almost quit, just a few days returned.
<snipped for length >

Exeeter702.. those who want a harder content would loose that fight... unless a mod could be made or new version come out with "legendary " on it... ESO is based on the other TES games. . And the overworld pretty much works the same way. Not exactly..because of the nature of single person versus MMO...

The dungeons have always been harder... though truthfully, away from towns and starter areas was too. But you had ( usually) leveled by the time you got there... so only slightly more challenging, unless you min/maxed.. then not challenging at all.

i dont get why you would draw the line at "legendary". An organic difficulty curve that adheres to an overall game wide standard where valuable lessons are taught to new players as they progress through overland content is not the same as wanting a legendary overland mode. This has nothing to do with single player TES entries as they are fundamentally different games and obey entirely different rules, im purely speaking on behalf of games willing to tell it players its ok to fail and provide them with the necessary tools and information to overcome a challenge or otherwise achieve a win condition. There is very little meaningful engagement for those that want some form of push back or opposition in overland content which again goes back to my intial point...

Compartmentalized content that caters to isolated player demographcis is fine if you want to create a space for every type of player. The issue with this design approach is that when a player on the lower spectrum decides to venture outside their comfort zone, they tend to acclimate very poorly. Creating more meaningful overland opposition potentially solves the issue of players becoming better rather than plateauing. It doenst have to be extraordinarily difficult obviously and no one suggests as much. I simply come from the generation/mindset that believes the best kind of online games are the ones that treat all players as equals right out of the gates, provides the necessary tools to succeed and tells them to sink or swim while offering various teirs of content with varying ranges of difficulty.

I'm also of the generation/mindset that feels there is little reason to play game if you arent engaged enough to desire improving and overcoming a challenge. I believe therenare 2 kinds of people (gamers) that after an 8 hour day, there are those that sit down with controller /kb mouse in hand and want to shut their brian off and those that want to turn it up to 11. And that is coming from a early 30s family man with a salary job.

Creating a meaningful overland environment for cp 810 characters is an entirely separate can of worms but for myself and my friends in game, this has effected are ability to enjoy all of the 3 chapters released.

The game you are advocating for would fail. Why? Due to you seemingly believing the majority of gamers play videogames, ESO in particular, to work towards harder content. That just simply isn't the case. I think the devs are well aware of the numbers we don't have access to and have consistently dismissed this because they know for a fact it would be a worthless time/money sink for little profit. Yes I care about their profits as it directly affects my gameplay experience.

We can easily look at the stats available (trophies) for the harder content available for eso and the numbers are absolutely abysmal. It's just not popular which means it would not be profitable for the devs to spend any time or resources reworking OW for a very small demographic who will never be satisfied in the first place.

Might take them a week to beat the new version before they are right back here asking for more of it all while regular players get frustrated by barely making it thru the quest and getting to the boss and they can't beat them. Many are not interested in getting better at the combat, something many don't find particularly fun and just want to complete their quest to move on to the next quest.

I've found the terrible dps that these folks like to say this design produces in dungeons is probably due to them just wanting something from that dungeon that the devs decided to lock behind unappealing content for them and you won't ever see them in that content again, like those who only pvp for vigor and caltrops and never pvp again.

Makes little sense to force all the players to get better just to appease a small group of vets who refuse to do the content designed specifically for them. Plenty of high level quest out there for these types of players. I specifically remember trying to complete the DB questline only to get to the boss and unable to beat her. Was not fun having to go around gaining levels doing content I didn't want to do just to finish a damn quest. I'd have quit if more quests were like that and I'm sure many would agree as well.

It has been mentioned by advocates for this change so I'll repeat it to them, not every game is meant to be enjoyed by all. Eso is CLEARLY aimed at the casuals who just want to go around feeling like an immortal with small pieces specifically designed for those who want more.

Plenty of games out there for those who want the entire game experience to be difficult.

Goregrinder

Why don't you remove all your CP's, and take your gear off if you want difficulty for the sake of difficulty?

Sevn

Wanted to add my bit on the Souls games as they have been mentioned many times by both sides. The thing is even with Souls, and this is strictly my experience from playing all but Bloodborne, is that once again once you "get" how the combat works, the game becomes insanely more easier, like never dying again unless you just are careless easy.

Is this not the same here? Once you know the ins and outs of combat the game is suppose to be easy for you, in particular the easy content designed to be easy in the first place. Am I once again the only one when looking for a challenge went around fighting everything with a broken sword and practically naked in the Souls games?

I'm doing the same here when I seek a challenge, pick a WB or solo a 4man dungeon, no added bonuses neccessary and without affecting anyone else's experience. It can be done and truly satisfying to anyone really seeking a good challenge and nothing else.

Jhalin

Goregrinder wrote: »

Why don't you remove all your CP's, and take your gear off if you want difficulty for the sake of difficulty?

People already have, and it’s still pointlessly easy

barney2525 wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

You are right. No one mentioned the rewards.

But no one ever mentions their Real ultimate goals either.

Must be really nice for people like you to pull absolutely BS out their arse to attack that argument, rather than the on-going actual discussion. You have NEVER gotten good rewards from quest content. NEVER. So this fixation and pretending peopel thinking overland content is too easy because they want better rewards is just inane. Stop. Just stop.

Nope

If you had paid any attention, you would have seen I have been addressing the issue.

The idea that the Main Focus of this or any other game of this type is to have the "wandering monsters" be the most dangerous and horribly hard for characters to kill is just plain ridiculous. The character needs to get from point A to point B to pursue the actual Mission (whatever it may be). Overland is simply Filler. It's Nuisance. It is DESIGNED to be minimal effort - especially for higher powered characters. To think otherwise makes no sense. It is NOT a Major part of the game.

So, if I see someone so adamant about Making it some Major part of the game, I start wondering Why. It's Not because "it's too easy". That would be something you complain about if you get to a world boss and it falls over in 3 hits.

That's Not what Overland is. Overland is Not Supposed to be hard, and it is functioning Exactly as it is supposed to. You tell me - WHY DOES ANYONE CARE THAT IS IS EASY TO GET FROM POINT A TO POINT B?


IMHO

I can run through everything just like I would with CP and gear on. There's virtually no chance of me dying against trash mobs, even the "bosses" of quests are not a challenge. When we talk about the game being too easy, this is the number one issue.

But you know some of us, actually want a little bit of a challenge, we want to die to trash mobs if we aggro too many, ESPECIALLY in the overworld. Some of us want the bosses of quests or delves to be actually challenging

From the OP. And many of us clarified our positions with not including PBs, Dolmen, WBs. Explaining that the penultimate boss of a quest chain should feel like a boss. Though I have mentioned delves several times not included in the 'overland', I thought he meant the delve bosses that quests had you do, rather than the rando you kill because it's sits in there.

It is NOT a Major part of the game.

It's a majority of the game. Most of the content is questing stuff that is overland and where that brings you. The content added each chapter and DLC, which continuously treats the whole world like it's an afterthought. That would have us suspend disbelief but tell us majordomo X is so powerful, and he dies in 2 hits.

Most of the time I quest I feel resentment that quest bits aren't instanced, that not only do I have to deal with extremely easy bosses, but there's a good chance some random person runs in and starts nuking them too. Now boss that I could kill in a few hits myself, instantly dies completely destroying any immersion in the story.

Maybe I'm older than you are, But Nobody complains this hard about something this insignificant without having Something else that they want to accomplish.

Could be. Maybe not. Or could be that people just are incapable of arguing a position as stated. How hard is it to understand that this game with every chapter and DLC release, brings for another story arc. One that can be smashed through solo, but generally have a bunch of other players smashing through with you, extremely easily.

I came to the forums because after doing Elsweyr completion I just felt cheated. Most of the story was good but I left it feeling like the experience was cheapened by how easy it was. This left me feeling bored and wondering if that aspect of the game was even worth paying more money for.

At least in GW2 the living season come free as long as you are logged in during a particular bit. ESO makes you pay for it and the only reason I feel like this chapter was worth it is because the Necromancer. But I began to question redoing all the content of my original main on the new necromancer was actually going to keep me occupied without feeling like it was so easy that the story completion would leave me feeling more bored than entertained.

This is why I came to the forums. And lo and behold, right there on the first page was this thread with other people expressing the exact same concerns I was feeling.

I don't need more rewards. I don't need anything else except not feeling bored to tears doing the story content which makes up a majority of this game, and is only bearable when the storytelling is superb, which isn't always the case.

Disagree.

It's Not a Majority of the game because IF you want you can simply avoid it - Completely.

You do not have to fight Anything if you don't Choose to.

It Can't be considered a ' Majority ' of the game if it can be simply ignored.

I could not even estimate the many many many characters I have seen running across my screen, being pursued by several mobs. It's not that the character could not stop and kill them. The player just has better things to do - like reaching their actual objective and participating in whatever that issue is.

Overland is Flavor.

Now you’re just outright lying

Questing is not avoidable in any way. You need it for Psijic. You need it for crafting area access. You need it to have access to many dailies. You need it for skill points. You need it for Soul Magic. You need it to experience a damn story

You’re not some old wisened Yoda, you’re just being a nuisance who clearly has no interest in actual debate, who believes all players are infantile creatures that would immediately throw out the whole game if a quest boss actually had a chance to kill them.

Jeremy

Sevn wrote: »

Wanted to add my bit on the Souls games as they have been mentioned many times by both sides. The thing is even with Souls, and this is strictly my experience from playing all but Bloodborne, is that once again once you "get" how the combat works, the game becomes insanely more easier, like never dying again unless you just are careless easy.

Is this not the same here? Once you know the ins and outs of combat the game is suppose to be easy for you, in particular the easy content designed to be easy in the first place. Am I once again the only one when looking for a challenge went around fighting everything with a broken sword and practically naked in the Souls games?

I'm doing the same here when I seek a challenge, pick a WB or solo a 4man dungeon, no added bonuses neccessary and without affecting anyone else's experience. It can be done and truly satisfying to anyone really seeking a good challenge and nothing else.

I and many others aren't suggesting you can't find challenges in this game. Much the veteran content - like Malestrom Arena and many of the DLC dungeons and trials are plenty challenging (some may even say too much so). That's not the issue.

The problem is when exploring new content and doing quests there is no challenge. The fights are so easy for veteran players the combat becomes boring - which holds the game back and makes it not as fun as it should be. Exploring and questing is a lot more enjoyable when there is enough challenge present to at least make the fights interesting and the landscape something you have to pay attention to - instead of instant kill boredom. That's what needs to be addressed.

As I've said before and I'll say again - high level players should be able to have fun while questing too. Adding optional Veteran zones to quest in would be an easy way to solve this problem and would not affect newer players or players who aren't interested in a higher degree of challenge in any way. It's a win win and for the life of me I can't understand why anyone would be against it.

Goregrinder

Jhalin wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Why don't you remove all your CP's, and take your gear off if you want difficulty for the sake of difficulty?

People already have, and it’s still pointlessly easy

barney2525 wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

You are right. No one mentioned the rewards.

But no one ever mentions their Real ultimate goals either.

Must be really nice for people like you to pull absolutely BS out their arse to attack that argument, rather than the on-going actual discussion. You have NEVER gotten good rewards from quest content. NEVER. So this fixation and pretending peopel thinking overland content is too easy because they want better rewards is just inane. Stop. Just stop.

Nope

If you had paid any attention, you would have seen I have been addressing the issue.

The idea that the Main Focus of this or any other game of this type is to have the "wandering monsters" be the most dangerous and horribly hard for characters to kill is just plain ridiculous. The character needs to get from point A to point B to pursue the actual Mission (whatever it may be). Overland is simply Filler. It's Nuisance. It is DESIGNED to be minimal effort - especially for higher powered characters. To think otherwise makes no sense. It is NOT a Major part of the game.

So, if I see someone so adamant about Making it some Major part of the game, I start wondering Why. It's Not because "it's too easy". That would be something you complain about if you get to a world boss and it falls over in 3 hits.

That's Not what Overland is. Overland is Not Supposed to be hard, and it is functioning Exactly as it is supposed to. You tell me - WHY DOES ANYONE CARE THAT IS IS EASY TO GET FROM POINT A TO POINT B?


IMHO

I can run through everything just like I would with CP and gear on. There's virtually no chance of me dying against trash mobs, even the "bosses" of quests are not a challenge. When we talk about the game being too easy, this is the number one issue.

But you know some of us, actually want a little bit of a challenge, we want to die to trash mobs if we aggro too many, ESPECIALLY in the overworld. Some of us want the bosses of quests or delves to be actually challenging

From the OP. And many of us clarified our positions with not including PBs, Dolmen, WBs. Explaining that the penultimate boss of a quest chain should feel like a boss. Though I have mentioned delves several times not included in the 'overland', I thought he meant the delve bosses that quests had you do, rather than the rando you kill because it's sits in there.

It is NOT a Major part of the game.

It's a majority of the game. Most of the content is questing stuff that is overland and where that brings you. The content added each chapter and DLC, which continuously treats the whole world like it's an afterthought. That would have us suspend disbelief but tell us majordomo X is so powerful, and he dies in 2 hits.

Most of the time I quest I feel resentment that quest bits aren't instanced, that not only do I have to deal with extremely easy bosses, but there's a good chance some random person runs in and starts nuking them too. Now boss that I could kill in a few hits myself, instantly dies completely destroying any immersion in the story.

Maybe I'm older than you are, But Nobody complains this hard about something this insignificant without having Something else that they want to accomplish.

Could be. Maybe not. Or could be that people just are incapable of arguing a position as stated. How hard is it to understand that this game with every chapter and DLC release, brings for another story arc. One that can be smashed through solo, but generally have a bunch of other players smashing through with you, extremely easily.

I came to the forums because after doing Elsweyr completion I just felt cheated. Most of the story was good but I left it feeling like the experience was cheapened by how easy it was. This left me feeling bored and wondering if that aspect of the game was even worth paying more money for.

At least in GW2 the living season come free as long as you are logged in during a particular bit. ESO makes you pay for it and the only reason I feel like this chapter was worth it is because the Necromancer. But I began to question redoing all the content of my original main on the new necromancer was actually going to keep me occupied without feeling like it was so easy that the story completion would leave me feeling more bored than entertained.

This is why I came to the forums. And lo and behold, right there on the first page was this thread with other people expressing the exact same concerns I was feeling.

I don't need more rewards. I don't need anything else except not feeling bored to tears doing the story content which makes up a majority of this game, and is only bearable when the storytelling is superb, which isn't always the case.

Disagree.

It's Not a Majority of the game because IF you want you can simply avoid it - Completely.

You do not have to fight Anything if you don't Choose to.

It Can't be considered a ' Majority ' of the game if it can be simply ignored.

I could not even estimate the many many many characters I have seen running across my screen, being pursued by several mobs. It's not that the character could not stop and kill them. The player just has better things to do - like reaching their actual objective and participating in whatever that issue is.

Overland is Flavor.

Now you’re just outright lying

Questing is not avoidable in any way. You need it for Psijic. You need it for crafting area access. You need it to have access to many dailies. You need it for skill points. You need it for Soul Magic. You need it to experience a damn story

You’re not some old wisened Yoda, you’re just being a nuisance who clearly has no interest in actual debate, who believes all players are infantile creatures that would immediately throw out the whole game if a quest boss actually had a chance to kill them.

Then start removing points from all your passives, and use only one bar, and don't LA weave. Just keep going down the list until you've found the right level of "difficulty" for yourself, then play the rest of the game that way.

Jeremy

Goregrinder wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Why don't you remove all your CP's, and take your gear off if you want difficulty for the sake of difficulty?

People already have, and it’s still pointlessly easy

barney2525 wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

You are right. No one mentioned the rewards.

But no one ever mentions their Real ultimate goals either.

Must be really nice for people like you to pull absolutely BS out their arse to attack that argument, rather than the on-going actual discussion. You have NEVER gotten good rewards from quest content. NEVER. So this fixation and pretending peopel thinking overland content is too easy because they want better rewards is just inane. Stop. Just stop.

Nope

If you had paid any attention, you would have seen I have been addressing the issue.

The idea that the Main Focus of this or any other game of this type is to have the "wandering monsters" be the most dangerous and horribly hard for characters to kill is just plain ridiculous. The character needs to get from point A to point B to pursue the actual Mission (whatever it may be). Overland is simply Filler. It's Nuisance. It is DESIGNED to be minimal effort - especially for higher powered characters. To think otherwise makes no sense. It is NOT a Major part of the game.

So, if I see someone so adamant about Making it some Major part of the game, I start wondering Why. It's Not because "it's too easy". That would be something you complain about if you get to a world boss and it falls over in 3 hits.

That's Not what Overland is. Overland is Not Supposed to be hard, and it is functioning Exactly as it is supposed to. You tell me - WHY DOES ANYONE CARE THAT IS IS EASY TO GET FROM POINT A TO POINT B?


IMHO

I can run through everything just like I would with CP and gear on. There's virtually no chance of me dying against trash mobs, even the "bosses" of quests are not a challenge. When we talk about the game being too easy, this is the number one issue.

But you know some of us, actually want a little bit of a challenge, we want to die to trash mobs if we aggro too many, ESPECIALLY in the overworld. Some of us want the bosses of quests or delves to be actually challenging

From the OP. And many of us clarified our positions with not including PBs, Dolmen, WBs. Explaining that the penultimate boss of a quest chain should feel like a boss. Though I have mentioned delves several times not included in the 'overland', I thought he meant the delve bosses that quests had you do, rather than the rando you kill because it's sits in there.

It is NOT a Major part of the game.

It's a majority of the game. Most of the content is questing stuff that is overland and where that brings you. The content added each chapter and DLC, which continuously treats the whole world like it's an afterthought. That would have us suspend disbelief but tell us majordomo X is so powerful, and he dies in 2 hits.

Most of the time I quest I feel resentment that quest bits aren't instanced, that not only do I have to deal with extremely easy bosses, but there's a good chance some random person runs in and starts nuking them too. Now boss that I could kill in a few hits myself, instantly dies completely destroying any immersion in the story.

Maybe I'm older than you are, But Nobody complains this hard about something this insignificant without having Something else that they want to accomplish.

Could be. Maybe not. Or could be that people just are incapable of arguing a position as stated. How hard is it to understand that this game with every chapter and DLC release, brings for another story arc. One that can be smashed through solo, but generally have a bunch of other players smashing through with you, extremely easily.

I came to the forums because after doing Elsweyr completion I just felt cheated. Most of the story was good but I left it feeling like the experience was cheapened by how easy it was. This left me feeling bored and wondering if that aspect of the game was even worth paying more money for.

At least in GW2 the living season come free as long as you are logged in during a particular bit. ESO makes you pay for it and the only reason I feel like this chapter was worth it is because the Necromancer. But I began to question redoing all the content of my original main on the new necromancer was actually going to keep me occupied without feeling like it was so easy that the story completion would leave me feeling more bored than entertained.

This is why I came to the forums. And lo and behold, right there on the first page was this thread with other people expressing the exact same concerns I was feeling.

I don't need more rewards. I don't need anything else except not feeling bored to tears doing the story content which makes up a majority of this game, and is only bearable when the storytelling is superb, which isn't always the case.

Disagree.

It's Not a Majority of the game because IF you want you can simply avoid it - Completely.

You do not have to fight Anything if you don't Choose to.

It Can't be considered a ' Majority ' of the game if it can be simply ignored.

I could not even estimate the many many many characters I have seen running across my screen, being pursued by several mobs. It's not that the character could not stop and kill them. The player just has better things to do - like reaching their actual objective and participating in whatever that issue is.

Overland is Flavor.

Now you’re just outright lying

Questing is not avoidable in any way. You need it for Psijic. You need it for crafting area access. You need it to have access to many dailies. You need it for skill points. You need it for Soul Magic. You need it to experience a damn story

You’re not some old wisened Yoda, you’re just being a nuisance who clearly has no interest in actual debate, who believes all players are infantile creatures that would immediately throw out the whole game if a quest boss actually had a chance to kill them.

Then start removing points from all your passives, and use only one bar, and don't LA weave. Just keep going down the list until you've found the right level of "difficulty" for yourself, then play the rest of the game that way.

That's like suggesting if someone is too smart for a class they should take a crowbar to their head until they are brain damaged enough to where that class challenges them - instead of seeking out a more challenging class they could actually have fun learning in.

It's preposterous.

Goregrinder

Jeremy wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Why don't you remove all your CP's, and take your gear off if you want difficulty for the sake of difficulty?

People already have, and it’s still pointlessly easy

barney2525 wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

You are right. No one mentioned the rewards.

But no one ever mentions their Real ultimate goals either.

Must be really nice for people like you to pull absolutely BS out their arse to attack that argument, rather than the on-going actual discussion. You have NEVER gotten good rewards from quest content. NEVER. So this fixation and pretending peopel thinking overland content is too easy because they want better rewards is just inane. Stop. Just stop.

Nope

If you had paid any attention, you would have seen I have been addressing the issue.

The idea that the Main Focus of this or any other game of this type is to have the "wandering monsters" be the most dangerous and horribly hard for characters to kill is just plain ridiculous. The character needs to get from point A to point B to pursue the actual Mission (whatever it may be). Overland is simply Filler. It's Nuisance. It is DESIGNED to be minimal effort - especially for higher powered characters. To think otherwise makes no sense. It is NOT a Major part of the game.

So, if I see someone so adamant about Making it some Major part of the game, I start wondering Why. It's Not because "it's too easy". That would be something you complain about if you get to a world boss and it falls over in 3 hits.

That's Not what Overland is. Overland is Not Supposed to be hard, and it is functioning Exactly as it is supposed to. You tell me - WHY DOES ANYONE CARE THAT IS IS EASY TO GET FROM POINT A TO POINT B?


IMHO

I can run through everything just like I would with CP and gear on. There's virtually no chance of me dying against trash mobs, even the "bosses" of quests are not a challenge. When we talk about the game being too easy, this is the number one issue.

But you know some of us, actually want a little bit of a challenge, we want to die to trash mobs if we aggro too many, ESPECIALLY in the overworld. Some of us want the bosses of quests or delves to be actually challenging

From the OP. And many of us clarified our positions with not including PBs, Dolmen, WBs. Explaining that the penultimate boss of a quest chain should feel like a boss. Though I have mentioned delves several times not included in the 'overland', I thought he meant the delve bosses that quests had you do, rather than the rando you kill because it's sits in there.

It is NOT a Major part of the game.

It's a majority of the game. Most of the content is questing stuff that is overland and where that brings you. The content added each chapter and DLC, which continuously treats the whole world like it's an afterthought. That would have us suspend disbelief but tell us majordomo X is so powerful, and he dies in 2 hits.

Most of the time I quest I feel resentment that quest bits aren't instanced, that not only do I have to deal with extremely easy bosses, but there's a good chance some random person runs in and starts nuking them too. Now boss that I could kill in a few hits myself, instantly dies completely destroying any immersion in the story.

Maybe I'm older than you are, But Nobody complains this hard about something this insignificant without having Something else that they want to accomplish.

Could be. Maybe not. Or could be that people just are incapable of arguing a position as stated. How hard is it to understand that this game with every chapter and DLC release, brings for another story arc. One that can be smashed through solo, but generally have a bunch of other players smashing through with you, extremely easily.

I came to the forums because after doing Elsweyr completion I just felt cheated. Most of the story was good but I left it feeling like the experience was cheapened by how easy it was. This left me feeling bored and wondering if that aspect of the game was even worth paying more money for.

At least in GW2 the living season come free as long as you are logged in during a particular bit. ESO makes you pay for it and the only reason I feel like this chapter was worth it is because the Necromancer. But I began to question redoing all the content of my original main on the new necromancer was actually going to keep me occupied without feeling like it was so easy that the story completion would leave me feeling more bored than entertained.

This is why I came to the forums. And lo and behold, right there on the first page was this thread with other people expressing the exact same concerns I was feeling.

I don't need more rewards. I don't need anything else except not feeling bored to tears doing the story content which makes up a majority of this game, and is only bearable when the storytelling is superb, which isn't always the case.

Disagree.

It's Not a Majority of the game because IF you want you can simply avoid it - Completely.

You do not have to fight Anything if you don't Choose to.

It Can't be considered a ' Majority ' of the game if it can be simply ignored.

I could not even estimate the many many many characters I have seen running across my screen, being pursued by several mobs. It's not that the character could not stop and kill them. The player just has better things to do - like reaching their actual objective and participating in whatever that issue is.

Overland is Flavor.

Now you’re just outright lying

Questing is not avoidable in any way. You need it for Psijic. You need it for crafting area access. You need it to have access to many dailies. You need it for skill points. You need it for Soul Magic. You need it to experience a damn story

You’re not some old wisened Yoda, you’re just being a nuisance who clearly has no interest in actual debate, who believes all players are infantile creatures that would immediately throw out the whole game if a quest boss actually had a chance to kill them.

Then start removing points from all your passives, and use only one bar, and don't LA weave. Just keep going down the list until you've found the right level of "difficulty" for yourself, then play the rest of the game that way.

That's like suggesting if someone is too smart for a class they should take a crowbar to their head until they are brain damaged enough to where that class challenges them - instead of seeking out a more challenging class they could actually have fun learning in.

It's preposterous.

In the context of a game with pre defined parameters, that's what you need to do if that is the thrill you seek.

Jeremy

Goregrinder wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Why don't you remove all your CP's, and take your gear off if you want difficulty for the sake of difficulty?

People already have, and it’s still pointlessly easy

barney2525 wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

You are right. No one mentioned the rewards.

But no one ever mentions their Real ultimate goals either.

Must be really nice for people like you to pull absolutely BS out their arse to attack that argument, rather than the on-going actual discussion. You have NEVER gotten good rewards from quest content. NEVER. So this fixation and pretending peopel thinking overland content is too easy because they want better rewards is just inane. Stop. Just stop.

Nope

If you had paid any attention, you would have seen I have been addressing the issue.

The idea that the Main Focus of this or any other game of this type is to have the "wandering monsters" be the most dangerous and horribly hard for characters to kill is just plain ridiculous. The character needs to get from point A to point B to pursue the actual Mission (whatever it may be). Overland is simply Filler. It's Nuisance. It is DESIGNED to be minimal effort - especially for higher powered characters. To think otherwise makes no sense. It is NOT a Major part of the game.

So, if I see someone so adamant about Making it some Major part of the game, I start wondering Why. It's Not because "it's too easy". That would be something you complain about if you get to a world boss and it falls over in 3 hits.

That's Not what Overland is. Overland is Not Supposed to be hard, and it is functioning Exactly as it is supposed to. You tell me - WHY DOES ANYONE CARE THAT IS IS EASY TO GET FROM POINT A TO POINT B?


IMHO

I can run through everything just like I would with CP and gear on. There's virtually no chance of me dying against trash mobs, even the "bosses" of quests are not a challenge. When we talk about the game being too easy, this is the number one issue.

But you know some of us, actually want a little bit of a challenge, we want to die to trash mobs if we aggro too many, ESPECIALLY in the overworld. Some of us want the bosses of quests or delves to be actually challenging

From the OP. And many of us clarified our positions with not including PBs, Dolmen, WBs. Explaining that the penultimate boss of a quest chain should feel like a boss. Though I have mentioned delves several times not included in the 'overland', I thought he meant the delve bosses that quests had you do, rather than the rando you kill because it's sits in there.

It is NOT a Major part of the game.

It's a majority of the game. Most of the content is questing stuff that is overland and where that brings you. The content added each chapter and DLC, which continuously treats the whole world like it's an afterthought. That would have us suspend disbelief but tell us majordomo X is so powerful, and he dies in 2 hits.

Most of the time I quest I feel resentment that quest bits aren't instanced, that not only do I have to deal with extremely easy bosses, but there's a good chance some random person runs in and starts nuking them too. Now boss that I could kill in a few hits myself, instantly dies completely destroying any immersion in the story.

Maybe I'm older than you are, But Nobody complains this hard about something this insignificant without having Something else that they want to accomplish.

Could be. Maybe not. Or could be that people just are incapable of arguing a position as stated. How hard is it to understand that this game with every chapter and DLC release, brings for another story arc. One that can be smashed through solo, but generally have a bunch of other players smashing through with you, extremely easily.

I came to the forums because after doing Elsweyr completion I just felt cheated. Most of the story was good but I left it feeling like the experience was cheapened by how easy it was. This left me feeling bored and wondering if that aspect of the game was even worth paying more money for.

At least in GW2 the living season come free as long as you are logged in during a particular bit. ESO makes you pay for it and the only reason I feel like this chapter was worth it is because the Necromancer. But I began to question redoing all the content of my original main on the new necromancer was actually going to keep me occupied without feeling like it was so easy that the story completion would leave me feeling more bored than entertained.

This is why I came to the forums. And lo and behold, right there on the first page was this thread with other people expressing the exact same concerns I was feeling.

I don't need more rewards. I don't need anything else except not feeling bored to tears doing the story content which makes up a majority of this game, and is only bearable when the storytelling is superb, which isn't always the case.

Disagree.

It's Not a Majority of the game because IF you want you can simply avoid it - Completely.

You do not have to fight Anything if you don't Choose to.

It Can't be considered a ' Majority ' of the game if it can be simply ignored.

I could not even estimate the many many many characters I have seen running across my screen, being pursued by several mobs. It's not that the character could not stop and kill them. The player just has better things to do - like reaching their actual objective and participating in whatever that issue is.

Overland is Flavor.

Now you’re just outright lying

Questing is not avoidable in any way. You need it for Psijic. You need it for crafting area access. You need it to have access to many dailies. You need it for skill points. You need it for Soul Magic. You need it to experience a damn story

You’re not some old wisened Yoda, you’re just being a nuisance who clearly has no interest in actual debate, who believes all players are infantile creatures that would immediately throw out the whole game if a quest boss actually had a chance to kill them.

Then start removing points from all your passives, and use only one bar, and don't LA weave. Just keep going down the list until you've found the right level of "difficulty" for yourself, then play the rest of the game that way.

That's like suggesting if someone is too smart for a class they should take a crowbar to their head until they are brain damaged enough to where that class challenges them - instead of seeking out a more challenging class they could actually have fun learning in.

It's preposterous.

In the context of a game with pre defined parameters, that's what you need to do if that is the thrill you seek.

I don't find purposely gimping myself thrilling. I find it stupid. In any context.

alanmatillab16_ESO

barney2525 wrote: »

.

The idea that the Main Focus of this or any other game of this type is to have the "wandering monsters" be the most dangerous and horribly hard for characters to kill is just plain ridiculous.

Indeed which is why NO ONE has asked for that, what part of that are you not getting?

The "red shirt" bandits in the camp are one thing but the boss that you have been sent there to kill by the village should be something else, you should have to get out of the way of their big attacks or take a shedload of damage. If you stand in the pool of fire telegraphed by the red circle as the boss casts it you should take a shedload of damage.

Someone earlier mentioned the Doshia fight. When that first came out it was a royal pain the the rear and a damned hard fight but after getting slaughtered a few times players either came to the forums to complain OR they looked online and asked in game for assistance. Once you learned the tactics the fight became manageable but still tough or in other words you learned how to fight that type of boss.

Now, it is a laugh. You do not have to dodge out of the way of the ghosts she summons, the "force grip" doesn't hurt and you don't have to kill the globes to either get heals yourself or prevent her from healing. That is nothing to do with player skill, CP or gear, it is because difficulty was nerfed.

MartiniDaniels

Sevn wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Aireal wrote: »

Ingvar798_ESO wrote: »

Wanted to drop my 2c as I feel this issue is really hurting an otherwise amazing game.

I would not call myself a veteran player. I played the game at launch for a few months. Came back for Morrowind for a few weeks, and have now returned for Elsweyr.


Much to my dismay, having leveled my Necro to 50, all of this challenge is gone. I quickly realized that I could pull 10+ mobs at a time and AoE them down, all while keeping my health near max (thanks scythe ability). Group content is easily solo-able, even Skyreach/Craglorn. To be fair, there's a few pieces of content that I had trouble soloing in Craglorn.

To me this makes the Overworld content very bland/boring. I do enjoy the story in ESO, but most of the time the immersion is completely ruined by some NPC telling me how dangerous this guy is, and then I run over and 3 shot them and all their goons. The story fundamentally breaks in these incidents. Personally the content in Overworld felt so boring that I almost quit, just a few days returned.
<snipped for length >

Exeeter702.. those who want a harder content would loose that fight... unless a mod could be made or new version come out with "legendary " on it... ESO is based on the other TES games. . And the overworld pretty much works the same way. Not exactly..because of the nature of single person versus MMO...

The dungeons have always been harder... though truthfully, away from towns and starter areas was too. But you had ( usually) leveled by the time you got there... so only slightly more challenging, unless you min/maxed.. then not challenging at all.

i dont get why you would draw the line at "legendary". An organic difficulty curve that adheres to an overall game wide standard where valuable lessons are taught to new players as they progress through overland content is not the same as wanting a legendary overland mode. This has nothing to do with single player TES entries as they are fundamentally different games and obey entirely different rules, im purely speaking on behalf of games willing to tell it players its ok to fail and provide them with the necessary tools and information to overcome a challenge or otherwise achieve a win condition. There is very little meaningful engagement for those that want some form of push back or opposition in overland content which again goes back to my intial point...

Compartmentalized content that caters to isolated player demographcis is fine if you want to create a space for every type of player. The issue with this design approach is that when a player on the lower spectrum decides to venture outside their comfort zone, they tend to acclimate very poorly. Creating more meaningful overland opposition potentially solves the issue of players becoming better rather than plateauing. It doenst have to be extraordinarily difficult obviously and no one suggests as much. I simply come from the generation/mindset that believes the best kind of online games are the ones that treat all players as equals right out of the gates, provides the necessary tools to succeed and tells them to sink or swim while offering various teirs of content with varying ranges of difficulty.

I'm also of the generation/mindset that feels there is little reason to play game if you arent engaged enough to desire improving and overcoming a challenge. I believe therenare 2 kinds of people (gamers) that after an 8 hour day, there are those that sit down with controller /kb mouse in hand and want to shut their brian off and those that want to turn it up to 11. And that is coming from a early 30s family man with a salary job.

Creating a meaningful overland environment for cp 810 characters is an entirely separate can of worms but for myself and my friends in game, this has effected are ability to enjoy all of the 3 chapters released.

The game you are advocating for would fail. Why? Due to you seemingly believing the majority of gamers play videogames, ESO in particular, to work towards harder content. That just simply isn't the case. I think the devs are well aware of the numbers we don't have access to and have consistently dismissed this because they know for a fact it would be a worthless time/money sink for little profit. Yes I care about their profits as it directly affects my gameplay experience.
.

Completely wrong.

Most popular games are PVP games where people kill each other dozens and hundreds times for days and there is actual challenge at every step.
If you'll say that ESO overland is more like single-player experience, let's then take Witcher 3, in the beginning that archgryphon and ghost "bosses" in White Orchard require tactics and reaction to deal with them even in normal difficulty when you play first time... and this doesn't stopped W3 to be sold at 20M+ and be praised by everyone. In Skyrim until you min-max to certain level on normal difficulty you will be smashed by any giant/dragon priest/draugr lord if you don't use some kind of tactics... Aldmeri Ambassy is quite challenging and requires some brain activity.. even on the road to High Hrotgar you will meet white bear and snow troll which will torn your lvl5 char in parts if you just rush on them. 30M+ sales. From the recent - Divinity Original Sin 2 - this game simply brings your ass to you in each encounter, which doesn't prevented it to become very popular despite very specific non-casual gameplay.
95% of the best and most successful RPGs in the history will kill you within several seconds on normal difficulty if you will run forward spamming light attacks on enemy of comparable level. Of course there are exploits everywhere, but we are talking about new players. So your argument is wrong. Majority of players play game for gameplay and overcoming challenges game provides, and not to go around picking flowers and listening how somebody cursed some village and you need to close 4 portals to abort this..

Linaleah

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

Because game already died once because people like you. There was EXACTLY what you want at launch.

Correlation does not does not imply causation fallacy.

Game nearly died to massive amount of bugs. Inability to ever see friends who rolled wrong faction. VR ranking and how tedious having to do every single quest, in the layout the game said, was. Ya, some people--still those who can't be bothered to do mechanics and thus like easy faceroll mode--cried about bosses actually requiring work. Or god forbid, being social in a MMO and asking for help (Doshia comes to mind). But stop pretending it was the difficulty and not more so all the other barriers that were killing the game then.

I quite literally quit at launch becasue i hit a wall on my nighblade and couldn't progress past certain point in Auridon and couldn't make it to Elden Root to respec to maybe fix my build up a bit, cause you have to go through heaven which is full of enemies that were 5-6 levels above me. i was completely stuck. the game was too hard for me too frustrating... so i quit. becasue there is no way I would pay $15 to be frustrated. and as much as I'd like to believe that i'm a super unique special snowflake? i doubt that I was. I have a feeling that I was far from the only one to hit that wall and just quit instead of trying to beat my head against it.

Goregrinder

Jeremy wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Why don't you remove all your CP's, and take your gear off if you want difficulty for the sake of difficulty?

People already have, and it’s still pointlessly easy

barney2525 wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

You are right. No one mentioned the rewards.

But no one ever mentions their Real ultimate goals either.

Must be really nice for people like you to pull absolutely BS out their arse to attack that argument, rather than the on-going actual discussion. You have NEVER gotten good rewards from quest content. NEVER. So this fixation and pretending peopel thinking overland content is too easy because they want better rewards is just inane. Stop. Just stop.

Nope

If you had paid any attention, you would have seen I have been addressing the issue.

The idea that the Main Focus of this or any other game of this type is to have the "wandering monsters" be the most dangerous and horribly hard for characters to kill is just plain ridiculous. The character needs to get from point A to point B to pursue the actual Mission (whatever it may be). Overland is simply Filler. It's Nuisance. It is DESIGNED to be minimal effort - especially for higher powered characters. To think otherwise makes no sense. It is NOT a Major part of the game.

So, if I see someone so adamant about Making it some Major part of the game, I start wondering Why. It's Not because "it's too easy". That would be something you complain about if you get to a world boss and it falls over in 3 hits.

That's Not what Overland is. Overland is Not Supposed to be hard, and it is functioning Exactly as it is supposed to. You tell me - WHY DOES ANYONE CARE THAT IS IS EASY TO GET FROM POINT A TO POINT B?


IMHO

I can run through everything just like I would with CP and gear on. There's virtually no chance of me dying against trash mobs, even the "bosses" of quests are not a challenge. When we talk about the game being too easy, this is the number one issue.

But you know some of us, actually want a little bit of a challenge, we want to die to trash mobs if we aggro too many, ESPECIALLY in the overworld. Some of us want the bosses of quests or delves to be actually challenging

From the OP. And many of us clarified our positions with not including PBs, Dolmen, WBs. Explaining that the penultimate boss of a quest chain should feel like a boss. Though I have mentioned delves several times not included in the 'overland', I thought he meant the delve bosses that quests had you do, rather than the rando you kill because it's sits in there.

It is NOT a Major part of the game.

It's a majority of the game. Most of the content is questing stuff that is overland and where that brings you. The content added each chapter and DLC, which continuously treats the whole world like it's an afterthought. That would have us suspend disbelief but tell us majordomo X is so powerful, and he dies in 2 hits.

Most of the time I quest I feel resentment that quest bits aren't instanced, that not only do I have to deal with extremely easy bosses, but there's a good chance some random person runs in and starts nuking them too. Now boss that I could kill in a few hits myself, instantly dies completely destroying any immersion in the story.

Maybe I'm older than you are, But Nobody complains this hard about something this insignificant without having Something else that they want to accomplish.

Could be. Maybe not. Or could be that people just are incapable of arguing a position as stated. How hard is it to understand that this game with every chapter and DLC release, brings for another story arc. One that can be smashed through solo, but generally have a bunch of other players smashing through with you, extremely easily.

I came to the forums because after doing Elsweyr completion I just felt cheated. Most of the story was good but I left it feeling like the experience was cheapened by how easy it was. This left me feeling bored and wondering if that aspect of the game was even worth paying more money for.

At least in GW2 the living season come free as long as you are logged in during a particular bit. ESO makes you pay for it and the only reason I feel like this chapter was worth it is because the Necromancer. But I began to question redoing all the content of my original main on the new necromancer was actually going to keep me occupied without feeling like it was so easy that the story completion would leave me feeling more bored than entertained.

This is why I came to the forums. And lo and behold, right there on the first page was this thread with other people expressing the exact same concerns I was feeling.

I don't need more rewards. I don't need anything else except not feeling bored to tears doing the story content which makes up a majority of this game, and is only bearable when the storytelling is superb, which isn't always the case.

Disagree.

It's Not a Majority of the game because IF you want you can simply avoid it - Completely.

You do not have to fight Anything if you don't Choose to.

It Can't be considered a ' Majority ' of the game if it can be simply ignored.

I could not even estimate the many many many characters I have seen running across my screen, being pursued by several mobs. It's not that the character could not stop and kill them. The player just has better things to do - like reaching their actual objective and participating in whatever that issue is.

Overland is Flavor.

Now you’re just outright lying

Questing is not avoidable in any way. You need it for Psijic. You need it for crafting area access. You need it to have access to many dailies. You need it for skill points. You need it for Soul Magic. You need it to experience a damn story

You’re not some old wisened Yoda, you’re just being a nuisance who clearly has no interest in actual debate, who believes all players are infantile creatures that would immediately throw out the whole game if a quest boss actually had a chance to kill them.

Then start removing points from all your passives, and use only one bar, and don't LA weave. Just keep going down the list until you've found the right level of "difficulty" for yourself, then play the rest of the game that way.

That's like suggesting if someone is too smart for a class they should take a crowbar to their head until they are brain damaged enough to where that class challenges them - instead of seeking out a more challenging class they could actually have fun learning in.

It's preposterous.

In the context of a game with pre defined parameters, that's what you need to do if that is the thrill you seek.

I don't find purposely gimping myself thrilling. I find it stupid. In any context.

The end result is the same: A more difficult experience for you....which is what you are requesting.

Chadak

Jeremy wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Why don't you remove all your CP's, and take your gear off if you want difficulty for the sake of difficulty?

People already have, and it’s still pointlessly easy

barney2525 wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

You are right. No one mentioned the rewards.

But no one ever mentions their Real ultimate goals either.

Must be really nice for people like you to pull absolutely BS out their arse to attack that argument, rather than the on-going actual discussion. You have NEVER gotten good rewards from quest content. NEVER. So this fixation and pretending peopel thinking overland content is too easy because they want better rewards is just inane. Stop. Just stop.

Nope

If you had paid any attention, you would have seen I have been addressing the issue.

The idea that the Main Focus of this or any other game of this type is to have the "wandering monsters" be the most dangerous and horribly hard for characters to kill is just plain ridiculous. The character needs to get from point A to point B to pursue the actual Mission (whatever it may be). Overland is simply Filler. It's Nuisance. It is DESIGNED to be minimal effort - especially for higher powered characters. To think otherwise makes no sense. It is NOT a Major part of the game.

So, if I see someone so adamant about Making it some Major part of the game, I start wondering Why. It's Not because "it's too easy". That would be something you complain about if you get to a world boss and it falls over in 3 hits.

That's Not what Overland is. Overland is Not Supposed to be hard, and it is functioning Exactly as it is supposed to. You tell me - WHY DOES ANYONE CARE THAT IS IS EASY TO GET FROM POINT A TO POINT B?


IMHO

I can run through everything just like I would with CP and gear on. There's virtually no chance of me dying against trash mobs, even the "bosses" of quests are not a challenge. When we talk about the game being too easy, this is the number one issue.

But you know some of us, actually want a little bit of a challenge, we want to die to trash mobs if we aggro too many, ESPECIALLY in the overworld. Some of us want the bosses of quests or delves to be actually challenging

From the OP. And many of us clarified our positions with not including PBs, Dolmen, WBs. Explaining that the penultimate boss of a quest chain should feel like a boss. Though I have mentioned delves several times not included in the 'overland', I thought he meant the delve bosses that quests had you do, rather than the rando you kill because it's sits in there.

It is NOT a Major part of the game.

It's a majority of the game. Most of the content is questing stuff that is overland and where that brings you. The content added each chapter and DLC, which continuously treats the whole world like it's an afterthought. That would have us suspend disbelief but tell us majordomo X is so powerful, and he dies in 2 hits.

Most of the time I quest I feel resentment that quest bits aren't instanced, that not only do I have to deal with extremely easy bosses, but there's a good chance some random person runs in and starts nuking them too. Now boss that I could kill in a few hits myself, instantly dies completely destroying any immersion in the story.

Maybe I'm older than you are, But Nobody complains this hard about something this insignificant without having Something else that they want to accomplish.

Could be. Maybe not. Or could be that people just are incapable of arguing a position as stated. How hard is it to understand that this game with every chapter and DLC release, brings for another story arc. One that can be smashed through solo, but generally have a bunch of other players smashing through with you, extremely easily.

I came to the forums because after doing Elsweyr completion I just felt cheated. Most of the story was good but I left it feeling like the experience was cheapened by how easy it was. This left me feeling bored and wondering if that aspect of the game was even worth paying more money for.

At least in GW2 the living season come free as long as you are logged in during a particular bit. ESO makes you pay for it and the only reason I feel like this chapter was worth it is because the Necromancer. But I began to question redoing all the content of my original main on the new necromancer was actually going to keep me occupied without feeling like it was so easy that the story completion would leave me feeling more bored than entertained.

This is why I came to the forums. And lo and behold, right there on the first page was this thread with other people expressing the exact same concerns I was feeling.

I don't need more rewards. I don't need anything else except not feeling bored to tears doing the story content which makes up a majority of this game, and is only bearable when the storytelling is superb, which isn't always the case.

Disagree.

It's Not a Majority of the game because IF you want you can simply avoid it - Completely.

You do not have to fight Anything if you don't Choose to.

It Can't be considered a ' Majority ' of the game if it can be simply ignored.

I could not even estimate the many many many characters I have seen running across my screen, being pursued by several mobs. It's not that the character could not stop and kill them. The player just has better things to do - like reaching their actual objective and participating in whatever that issue is.

Overland is Flavor.

Now you’re just outright lying

Questing is not avoidable in any way. You need it for Psijic. You need it for crafting area access. You need it to have access to many dailies. You need it for skill points. You need it for Soul Magic. You need it to experience a damn story

You’re not some old wisened Yoda, you’re just being a nuisance who clearly has no interest in actual debate, who believes all players are infantile creatures that would immediately throw out the whole game if a quest boss actually had a chance to kill them.

Then start removing points from all your passives, and use only one bar, and don't LA weave. Just keep going down the list until you've found the right level of "difficulty" for yourself, then play the rest of the game that way.

That's like suggesting if someone is too smart for a class they should take a crowbar to their head until they are brain damaged enough to where that class challenges them - instead of seeking out a more challenging class they could actually have fun learning in.

It's preposterous.

In the context of a game with pre defined parameters, that's what you need to do if that is the thrill you seek.

I don't find purposely gimping myself thrilling. I find it stupid. In any context.

Then you aren't interested in challenge.

Move along.

barney2525

Sevn wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Aireal wrote: »

Ingvar798_ESO wrote: »

Wanted to drop my 2c as I feel this issue is really hurting an otherwise amazing game.

I would not call myself a veteran player. I played the game at launch for a few months. Came back for Morrowind for a few weeks, and have now returned for Elsweyr.


Much to my dismay, having leveled my Necro to 50, all of this challenge is gone. I quickly realized that I could pull 10+ mobs at a time and AoE them down, all while keeping my health near max (thanks scythe ability). Group content is easily solo-able, even Skyreach/Craglorn. To be fair, there's a few pieces of content that I had trouble soloing in Craglorn.

To me this makes the Overworld content very bland/boring. I do enjoy the story in ESO, but most of the time the immersion is completely ruined by some NPC telling me how dangerous this guy is, and then I run over and 3 shot them and all their goons. The story fundamentally breaks in these incidents. Personally the content in Overworld felt so boring that I almost quit, just a few days returned.
<snipped for length >

Exeeter702.. those who want a harder content would loose that fight... unless a mod could be made or new version come out with "legendary " on it... ESO is based on the other TES games. . And the overworld pretty much works the same way. Not exactly..because of the nature of single person versus MMO...

The dungeons have always been harder... though truthfully, away from towns and starter areas was too. But you had ( usually) leveled by the time you got there... so only slightly more challenging, unless you min/maxed.. then not challenging at all.

i dont get why you would draw the line at "legendary". An organic difficulty curve that adheres to an overall game wide standard where valuable lessons are taught to new players as they progress through overland content is not the same as wanting a legendary overland mode. This has nothing to do with single player TES entries as they are fundamentally different games and obey entirely different rules, im purely speaking on behalf of games willing to tell it players its ok to fail and provide them with the necessary tools and information to overcome a challenge or otherwise achieve a win condition. There is very little meaningful engagement for those that want some form of push back or opposition in overland content which again goes back to my intial point...

Compartmentalized content that caters to isolated player demographcis is fine if you want to create a space for every type of player. The issue with this design approach is that when a player on the lower spectrum decides to venture outside their comfort zone, they tend to acclimate very poorly. Creating more meaningful overland opposition potentially solves the issue of players becoming better rather than plateauing. It doenst have to be extraordinarily difficult obviously and no one suggests as much. I simply come from the generation/mindset that believes the best kind of online games are the ones that treat all players as equals right out of the gates, provides the necessary tools to succeed and tells them to sink or swim while offering various teirs of content with varying ranges of difficulty.

I'm also of the generation/mindset that feels there is little reason to play game if you arent engaged enough to desire improving and overcoming a challenge. I believe therenare 2 kinds of people (gamers) that after an 8 hour day, there are those that sit down with controller /kb mouse in hand and want to shut their brian off and those that want to turn it up to 11. And that is coming from a early 30s family man with a salary job.

Creating a meaningful overland environment for cp 810 characters is an entirely separate can of worms but for myself and my friends in game, this has effected are ability to enjoy all of the 3 chapters released.

The game you are advocating for would fail. Why? Due to you seemingly believing the majority of gamers play videogames, ESO in particular, to work towards harder content. That just simply isn't the case. I think the devs are well aware of the numbers we don't have access to and have consistently dismissed this because they know for a fact it would be a worthless time/money sink for little profit. Yes I care about their profits as it directly affects my gameplay experience.

We can easily look at the stats available (trophies) for the harder content available for eso and the numbers are absolutely abysmal. It's just not popular which means it would not be profitable for the devs to spend any time or resources reworking OW for a very small demographic who will never be satisfied in the first place.

Might take them a week to beat the new version before they are right back here asking for more of it all while regular players get frustrated by barely making it thru the quest and getting to the boss and they can't beat them. Many are not interested in getting better at the combat, something many don't find particularly fun and just want to complete their quest to move on to the next quest.

I've found the terrible dps that these folks like to say this design produces in dungeons is probably due to them just wanting something from that dungeon that the devs decided to lock behind unappealing content for them and you won't ever see them in that content again, like those who only pvp for vigor and caltrops and never pvp again.

Makes little sense to force all the players to get better just to appease a small group of vets who refuse to do the content designed specifically for them. Plenty of high level quest out there for these types of players. I specifically remember trying to complete the DB questline only to get to the boss and unable to beat her. Was not fun having to go around gaining levels doing content I didn't want to do just to finish a damn quest. I'd have quit if more quests were like that and I'm sure many would agree as well.

It has been mentioned by advocates for this change so I'll repeat it to them, not every game is meant to be enjoyed by all. Eso is CLEARLY aimed at the casuals who just want to go around feeling like an immortal with small pieces specifically designed for those who want more.

Plenty of games out there for those who want the entire game experience to be difficult.

Very well said.

Goregrinder

barney2525 wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Aireal wrote: »

Ingvar798_ESO wrote: »

Wanted to drop my 2c as I feel this issue is really hurting an otherwise amazing game.

I would not call myself a veteran player. I played the game at launch for a few months. Came back for Morrowind for a few weeks, and have now returned for Elsweyr.


Much to my dismay, having leveled my Necro to 50, all of this challenge is gone. I quickly realized that I could pull 10+ mobs at a time and AoE them down, all while keeping my health near max (thanks scythe ability). Group content is easily solo-able, even Skyreach/Craglorn. To be fair, there's a few pieces of content that I had trouble soloing in Craglorn.

To me this makes the Overworld content very bland/boring. I do enjoy the story in ESO, but most of the time the immersion is completely ruined by some NPC telling me how dangerous this guy is, and then I run over and 3 shot them and all their goons. The story fundamentally breaks in these incidents. Personally the content in Overworld felt so boring that I almost quit, just a few days returned.
<snipped for length >

Exeeter702.. those who want a harder content would loose that fight... unless a mod could be made or new version come out with "legendary " on it... ESO is based on the other TES games. . And the overworld pretty much works the same way. Not exactly..because of the nature of single person versus MMO...

The dungeons have always been harder... though truthfully, away from towns and starter areas was too. But you had ( usually) leveled by the time you got there... so only slightly more challenging, unless you min/maxed.. then not challenging at all.

i dont get why you would draw the line at "legendary". An organic difficulty curve that adheres to an overall game wide standard where valuable lessons are taught to new players as they progress through overland content is not the same as wanting a legendary overland mode. This has nothing to do with single player TES entries as they are fundamentally different games and obey entirely different rules, im purely speaking on behalf of games willing to tell it players its ok to fail and provide them with the necessary tools and information to overcome a challenge or otherwise achieve a win condition. There is very little meaningful engagement for those that want some form of push back or opposition in overland content which again goes back to my intial point...

Compartmentalized content that caters to isolated player demographcis is fine if you want to create a space for every type of player. The issue with this design approach is that when a player on the lower spectrum decides to venture outside their comfort zone, they tend to acclimate very poorly. Creating more meaningful overland opposition potentially solves the issue of players becoming better rather than plateauing. It doenst have to be extraordinarily difficult obviously and no one suggests as much. I simply come from the generation/mindset that believes the best kind of online games are the ones that treat all players as equals right out of the gates, provides the necessary tools to succeed and tells them to sink or swim while offering various teirs of content with varying ranges of difficulty.

I'm also of the generation/mindset that feels there is little reason to play game if you arent engaged enough to desire improving and overcoming a challenge. I believe therenare 2 kinds of people (gamers) that after an 8 hour day, there are those that sit down with controller /kb mouse in hand and want to shut their brian off and those that want to turn it up to 11. And that is coming from a early 30s family man with a salary job.

Creating a meaningful overland environment for cp 810 characters is an entirely separate can of worms but for myself and my friends in game, this has effected are ability to enjoy all of the 3 chapters released.

The game you are advocating for would fail. Why? Due to you seemingly believing the majority of gamers play videogames, ESO in particular, to work towards harder content. That just simply isn't the case. I think the devs are well aware of the numbers we don't have access to and have consistently dismissed this because they know for a fact it would be a worthless time/money sink for little profit. Yes I care about their profits as it directly affects my gameplay experience.

We can easily look at the stats available (trophies) for the harder content available for eso and the numbers are absolutely abysmal. It's just not popular which means it would not be profitable for the devs to spend any time or resources reworking OW for a very small demographic who will never be satisfied in the first place.

Might take them a week to beat the new version before they are right back here asking for more of it all while regular players get frustrated by barely making it thru the quest and getting to the boss and they can't beat them. Many are not interested in getting better at the combat, something many don't find particularly fun and just want to complete their quest to move on to the next quest.

I've found the terrible dps that these folks like to say this design produces in dungeons is probably due to them just wanting something from that dungeon that the devs decided to lock behind unappealing content for them and you won't ever see them in that content again, like those who only pvp for vigor and caltrops and never pvp again.

Makes little sense to force all the players to get better just to appease a small group of vets who refuse to do the content designed specifically for them. Plenty of high level quest out there for these types of players. I specifically remember trying to complete the DB questline only to get to the boss and unable to beat her. Was not fun having to go around gaining levels doing content I didn't want to do just to finish a damn quest. I'd have quit if more quests were like that and I'm sure many would agree as well.

It has been mentioned by advocates for this change so I'll repeat it to them, not every game is meant to be enjoyed by all. Eso is CLEARLY aimed at the casuals who just want to go around feeling like an immortal with small pieces specifically designed for those who want more.

Plenty of games out there for those who want the entire game experience to be difficult.

Very well said.

Definitely well said.

Jeremy

Goregrinder wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Why don't you remove all your CP's, and take your gear off if you want difficulty for the sake of difficulty?

People already have, and it’s still pointlessly easy

barney2525 wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

You are right. No one mentioned the rewards.

But no one ever mentions their Real ultimate goals either.

Must be really nice for people like you to pull absolutely BS out their arse to attack that argument, rather than the on-going actual discussion. You have NEVER gotten good rewards from quest content. NEVER. So this fixation and pretending peopel thinking overland content is too easy because they want better rewards is just inane. Stop. Just stop.

Nope

If you had paid any attention, you would have seen I have been addressing the issue.

The idea that the Main Focus of this or any other game of this type is to have the "wandering monsters" be the most dangerous and horribly hard for characters to kill is just plain ridiculous. The character needs to get from point A to point B to pursue the actual Mission (whatever it may be). Overland is simply Filler. It's Nuisance. It is DESIGNED to be minimal effort - especially for higher powered characters. To think otherwise makes no sense. It is NOT a Major part of the game.

So, if I see someone so adamant about Making it some Major part of the game, I start wondering Why. It's Not because "it's too easy". That would be something you complain about if you get to a world boss and it falls over in 3 hits.

That's Not what Overland is. Overland is Not Supposed to be hard, and it is functioning Exactly as it is supposed to. You tell me - WHY DOES ANYONE CARE THAT IS IS EASY TO GET FROM POINT A TO POINT B?


IMHO

I can run through everything just like I would with CP and gear on. There's virtually no chance of me dying against trash mobs, even the "bosses" of quests are not a challenge. When we talk about the game being too easy, this is the number one issue.

But you know some of us, actually want a little bit of a challenge, we want to die to trash mobs if we aggro too many, ESPECIALLY in the overworld. Some of us want the bosses of quests or delves to be actually challenging

From the OP. And many of us clarified our positions with not including PBs, Dolmen, WBs. Explaining that the penultimate boss of a quest chain should feel like a boss. Though I have mentioned delves several times not included in the 'overland', I thought he meant the delve bosses that quests had you do, rather than the rando you kill because it's sits in there.

It is NOT a Major part of the game.

It's a majority of the game. Most of the content is questing stuff that is overland and where that brings you. The content added each chapter and DLC, which continuously treats the whole world like it's an afterthought. That would have us suspend disbelief but tell us majordomo X is so powerful, and he dies in 2 hits.

Most of the time I quest I feel resentment that quest bits aren't instanced, that not only do I have to deal with extremely easy bosses, but there's a good chance some random person runs in and starts nuking them too. Now boss that I could kill in a few hits myself, instantly dies completely destroying any immersion in the story.

Maybe I'm older than you are, But Nobody complains this hard about something this insignificant without having Something else that they want to accomplish.

Could be. Maybe not. Or could be that people just are incapable of arguing a position as stated. How hard is it to understand that this game with every chapter and DLC release, brings for another story arc. One that can be smashed through solo, but generally have a bunch of other players smashing through with you, extremely easily.

I came to the forums because after doing Elsweyr completion I just felt cheated. Most of the story was good but I left it feeling like the experience was cheapened by how easy it was. This left me feeling bored and wondering if that aspect of the game was even worth paying more money for.

At least in GW2 the living season come free as long as you are logged in during a particular bit. ESO makes you pay for it and the only reason I feel like this chapter was worth it is because the Necromancer. But I began to question redoing all the content of my original main on the new necromancer was actually going to keep me occupied without feeling like it was so easy that the story completion would leave me feeling more bored than entertained.

This is why I came to the forums. And lo and behold, right there on the first page was this thread with other people expressing the exact same concerns I was feeling.

I don't need more rewards. I don't need anything else except not feeling bored to tears doing the story content which makes up a majority of this game, and is only bearable when the storytelling is superb, which isn't always the case.

Disagree.

It's Not a Majority of the game because IF you want you can simply avoid it - Completely.

You do not have to fight Anything if you don't Choose to.

It Can't be considered a ' Majority ' of the game if it can be simply ignored.

I could not even estimate the many many many characters I have seen running across my screen, being pursued by several mobs. It's not that the character could not stop and kill them. The player just has better things to do - like reaching their actual objective and participating in whatever that issue is.

Overland is Flavor.

Now you’re just outright lying

Questing is not avoidable in any way. You need it for Psijic. You need it for crafting area access. You need it to have access to many dailies. You need it for skill points. You need it for Soul Magic. You need it to experience a damn story

You’re not some old wisened Yoda, you’re just being a nuisance who clearly has no interest in actual debate, who believes all players are infantile creatures that would immediately throw out the whole game if a quest boss actually had a chance to kill them.

Then start removing points from all your passives, and use only one bar, and don't LA weave. Just keep going down the list until you've found the right level of "difficulty" for yourself, then play the rest of the game that way.

That's like suggesting if someone is too smart for a class they should take a crowbar to their head until they are brain damaged enough to where that class challenges them - instead of seeking out a more challenging class they could actually have fun learning in.

It's preposterous.

In the context of a game with pre defined parameters, that's what you need to do if that is the thrill you seek.

I don't find purposely gimping myself thrilling. I find it stupid. In any context.

The end result is the same: A more difficult experience for you....which is what you are requesting.

No. Because what I am requesting is to have more fun while playing the game. There is nothing fun about purposely making my character suck. That's just dumb.

MartiniDaniels

Chadak wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Why don't you remove all your CP's, and take your gear off if you want difficulty for the sake of difficulty?

People already have, and it’s still pointlessly easy

barney2525 wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

You are right. No one mentioned the rewards.

But no one ever mentions their Real ultimate goals either.

Must be really nice for people like you to pull absolutely BS out their arse to attack that argument, rather than the on-going actual discussion. You have NEVER gotten good rewards from quest content. NEVER. So this fixation and pretending peopel thinking overland content is too easy because they want better rewards is just inane. Stop. Just stop.

Nope

If you had paid any attention, you would have seen I have been addressing the issue.

The idea that the Main Focus of this or any other game of this type is to have the "wandering monsters" be the most dangerous and horribly hard for characters to kill is just plain ridiculous. The character needs to get from point A to point B to pursue the actual Mission (whatever it may be). Overland is simply Filler. It's Nuisance. It is DESIGNED to be minimal effort - especially for higher powered characters. To think otherwise makes no sense. It is NOT a Major part of the game.

So, if I see someone so adamant about Making it some Major part of the game, I start wondering Why. It's Not because "it's too easy". That would be something you complain about if you get to a world boss and it falls over in 3 hits.

That's Not what Overland is. Overland is Not Supposed to be hard, and it is functioning Exactly as it is supposed to. You tell me - WHY DOES ANYONE CARE THAT IS IS EASY TO GET FROM POINT A TO POINT B?


IMHO

I can run through everything just like I would with CP and gear on. There's virtually no chance of me dying against trash mobs, even the "bosses" of quests are not a challenge. When we talk about the game being too easy, this is the number one issue.

But you know some of us, actually want a little bit of a challenge, we want to die to trash mobs if we aggro too many, ESPECIALLY in the overworld. Some of us want the bosses of quests or delves to be actually challenging

From the OP. And many of us clarified our positions with not including PBs, Dolmen, WBs. Explaining that the penultimate boss of a quest chain should feel like a boss. Though I have mentioned delves several times not included in the 'overland', I thought he meant the delve bosses that quests had you do, rather than the rando you kill because it's sits in there.

It is NOT a Major part of the game.

It's a majority of the game. Most of the content is questing stuff that is overland and where that brings you. The content added each chapter and DLC, which continuously treats the whole world like it's an afterthought. That would have us suspend disbelief but tell us majordomo X is so powerful, and he dies in 2 hits.

Most of the time I quest I feel resentment that quest bits aren't instanced, that not only do I have to deal with extremely easy bosses, but there's a good chance some random person runs in and starts nuking them too. Now boss that I could kill in a few hits myself, instantly dies completely destroying any immersion in the story.

Maybe I'm older than you are, But Nobody complains this hard about something this insignificant without having Something else that they want to accomplish.

Could be. Maybe not. Or could be that people just are incapable of arguing a position as stated. How hard is it to understand that this game with every chapter and DLC release, brings for another story arc. One that can be smashed through solo, but generally have a bunch of other players smashing through with you, extremely easily.

I came to the forums because after doing Elsweyr completion I just felt cheated. Most of the story was good but I left it feeling like the experience was cheapened by how easy it was. This left me feeling bored and wondering if that aspect of the game was even worth paying more money for.

At least in GW2 the living season come free as long as you are logged in during a particular bit. ESO makes you pay for it and the only reason I feel like this chapter was worth it is because the Necromancer. But I began to question redoing all the content of my original main on the new necromancer was actually going to keep me occupied without feeling like it was so easy that the story completion would leave me feeling more bored than entertained.

This is why I came to the forums. And lo and behold, right there on the first page was this thread with other people expressing the exact same concerns I was feeling.

I don't need more rewards. I don't need anything else except not feeling bored to tears doing the story content which makes up a majority of this game, and is only bearable when the storytelling is superb, which isn't always the case.

Disagree.

It's Not a Majority of the game because IF you want you can simply avoid it - Completely.

You do not have to fight Anything if you don't Choose to.

It Can't be considered a ' Majority ' of the game if it can be simply ignored.

I could not even estimate the many many many characters I have seen running across my screen, being pursued by several mobs. It's not that the character could not stop and kill them. The player just has better things to do - like reaching their actual objective and participating in whatever that issue is.

Overland is Flavor.

Now you’re just outright lying

Questing is not avoidable in any way. You need it for Psijic. You need it for crafting area access. You need it to have access to many dailies. You need it for skill points. You need it for Soul Magic. You need it to experience a damn story

You’re not some old wisened Yoda, you’re just being a nuisance who clearly has no interest in actual debate, who believes all players are infantile creatures that would immediately throw out the whole game if a quest boss actually had a chance to kill them.

Then start removing points from all your passives, and use only one bar, and don't LA weave. Just keep going down the list until you've found the right level of "difficulty" for yourself, then play the rest of the game that way.

That's like suggesting if someone is too smart for a class they should take a crowbar to their head until they are brain damaged enough to where that class challenges them - instead of seeking out a more challenging class they could actually have fun learning in.

It's preposterous.

In the context of a game with pre defined parameters, that's what you need to do if that is the thrill you seek.

I don't find purposely gimping myself thrilling. I find it stupid. In any context.

Then you aren't interested in challenge.

Move along.

Challenge is key part of gameplay, but not the only part. Another essential part of any RPG is your build. You may go for full glass-cannon build in VMA for example with reward of higher scores but this will require times more skill then completing VMA as petsorc or WW. But in overland even if you are full glass cannon you still cannot die.. so if you remove your armor etc you will simply kill mobs longer, but they still can't kill you if you do basic actions like not standing in aoe and blocking/dodging heavy attacks. So now you will propose not to dodge aoes and heavy attacks? what's left of gameplay then? you don't have build, you can't use CP perks which unlock mechanics, you can't use active defense, you can't use heals.. so you just stay in front of mobs in aoe light attacking them and then you finally die and feel accomplishment - "I finally found challenge"?

Jeremy

Chadak wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Why don't you remove all your CP's, and take your gear off if you want difficulty for the sake of difficulty?

People already have, and it’s still pointlessly easy

barney2525 wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

You are right. No one mentioned the rewards.

But no one ever mentions their Real ultimate goals either.

Must be really nice for people like you to pull absolutely BS out their arse to attack that argument, rather than the on-going actual discussion. You have NEVER gotten good rewards from quest content. NEVER. So this fixation and pretending peopel thinking overland content is too easy because they want better rewards is just inane. Stop. Just stop.

Nope

If you had paid any attention, you would have seen I have been addressing the issue.

The idea that the Main Focus of this or any other game of this type is to have the "wandering monsters" be the most dangerous and horribly hard for characters to kill is just plain ridiculous. The character needs to get from point A to point B to pursue the actual Mission (whatever it may be). Overland is simply Filler. It's Nuisance. It is DESIGNED to be minimal effort - especially for higher powered characters. To think otherwise makes no sense. It is NOT a Major part of the game.

So, if I see someone so adamant about Making it some Major part of the game, I start wondering Why. It's Not because "it's too easy". That would be something you complain about if you get to a world boss and it falls over in 3 hits.

That's Not what Overland is. Overland is Not Supposed to be hard, and it is functioning Exactly as it is supposed to. You tell me - WHY DOES ANYONE CARE THAT IS IS EASY TO GET FROM POINT A TO POINT B?


IMHO

I can run through everything just like I would with CP and gear on. There's virtually no chance of me dying against trash mobs, even the "bosses" of quests are not a challenge. When we talk about the game being too easy, this is the number one issue.

But you know some of us, actually want a little bit of a challenge, we want to die to trash mobs if we aggro too many, ESPECIALLY in the overworld. Some of us want the bosses of quests or delves to be actually challenging

From the OP. And many of us clarified our positions with not including PBs, Dolmen, WBs. Explaining that the penultimate boss of a quest chain should feel like a boss. Though I have mentioned delves several times not included in the 'overland', I thought he meant the delve bosses that quests had you do, rather than the rando you kill because it's sits in there.

It is NOT a Major part of the game.

It's a majority of the game. Most of the content is questing stuff that is overland and where that brings you. The content added each chapter and DLC, which continuously treats the whole world like it's an afterthought. That would have us suspend disbelief but tell us majordomo X is so powerful, and he dies in 2 hits.

Most of the time I quest I feel resentment that quest bits aren't instanced, that not only do I have to deal with extremely easy bosses, but there's a good chance some random person runs in and starts nuking them too. Now boss that I could kill in a few hits myself, instantly dies completely destroying any immersion in the story.

Maybe I'm older than you are, But Nobody complains this hard about something this insignificant without having Something else that they want to accomplish.

Could be. Maybe not. Or could be that people just are incapable of arguing a position as stated. How hard is it to understand that this game with every chapter and DLC release, brings for another story arc. One that can be smashed through solo, but generally have a bunch of other players smashing through with you, extremely easily.

I came to the forums because after doing Elsweyr completion I just felt cheated. Most of the story was good but I left it feeling like the experience was cheapened by how easy it was. This left me feeling bored and wondering if that aspect of the game was even worth paying more money for.

At least in GW2 the living season come free as long as you are logged in during a particular bit. ESO makes you pay for it and the only reason I feel like this chapter was worth it is because the Necromancer. But I began to question redoing all the content of my original main on the new necromancer was actually going to keep me occupied without feeling like it was so easy that the story completion would leave me feeling more bored than entertained.

This is why I came to the forums. And lo and behold, right there on the first page was this thread with other people expressing the exact same concerns I was feeling.

I don't need more rewards. I don't need anything else except not feeling bored to tears doing the story content which makes up a majority of this game, and is only bearable when the storytelling is superb, which isn't always the case.

Disagree.

It's Not a Majority of the game because IF you want you can simply avoid it - Completely.

You do not have to fight Anything if you don't Choose to.

It Can't be considered a ' Majority ' of the game if it can be simply ignored.

I could not even estimate the many many many characters I have seen running across my screen, being pursued by several mobs. It's not that the character could not stop and kill them. The player just has better things to do - like reaching their actual objective and participating in whatever that issue is.

Overland is Flavor.

Now you’re just outright lying

Questing is not avoidable in any way. You need it for Psijic. You need it for crafting area access. You need it to have access to many dailies. You need it for skill points. You need it for Soul Magic. You need it to experience a damn story

You’re not some old wisened Yoda, you’re just being a nuisance who clearly has no interest in actual debate, who believes all players are infantile creatures that would immediately throw out the whole game if a quest boss actually had a chance to kill them.

Then start removing points from all your passives, and use only one bar, and don't LA weave. Just keep going down the list until you've found the right level of "difficulty" for yourself, then play the rest of the game that way.

That's like suggesting if someone is too smart for a class they should take a crowbar to their head until they are brain damaged enough to where that class challenges them - instead of seeking out a more challenging class they could actually have fun learning in.

It's preposterous.

In the context of a game with pre defined parameters, that's what you need to do if that is the thrill you seek.

I don't find purposely gimping myself thrilling. I find it stupid. In any context.

Then you aren't interested in challenge.

Move along.

Not when that challenge involves me stripping my character to purposely myself suck. You are right about that. That doesn't interest me in the least. Nor should it because it's beyond stupid.

Chadak

Jeremy wrote: »

Chadak wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Why don't you remove all your CP's, and take your gear off if you want difficulty for the sake of difficulty?

People already have, and it’s still pointlessly easy

barney2525 wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

You are right. No one mentioned the rewards.

But no one ever mentions their Real ultimate goals either.

Must be really nice for people like you to pull absolutely BS out their arse to attack that argument, rather than the on-going actual discussion. You have NEVER gotten good rewards from quest content. NEVER. So this fixation and pretending peopel thinking overland content is too easy because they want better rewards is just inane. Stop. Just stop.

Nope

If you had paid any attention, you would have seen I have been addressing the issue.

The idea that the Main Focus of this or any other game of this type is to have the "wandering monsters" be the most dangerous and horribly hard for characters to kill is just plain ridiculous. The character needs to get from point A to point B to pursue the actual Mission (whatever it may be). Overland is simply Filler. It's Nuisance. It is DESIGNED to be minimal effort - especially for higher powered characters. To think otherwise makes no sense. It is NOT a Major part of the game.

So, if I see someone so adamant about Making it some Major part of the game, I start wondering Why. It's Not because "it's too easy". That would be something you complain about if you get to a world boss and it falls over in 3 hits.

That's Not what Overland is. Overland is Not Supposed to be hard, and it is functioning Exactly as it is supposed to. You tell me - WHY DOES ANYONE CARE THAT IS IS EASY TO GET FROM POINT A TO POINT B?


IMHO

I can run through everything just like I would with CP and gear on. There's virtually no chance of me dying against trash mobs, even the "bosses" of quests are not a challenge. When we talk about the game being too easy, this is the number one issue.

But you know some of us, actually want a little bit of a challenge, we want to die to trash mobs if we aggro too many, ESPECIALLY in the overworld. Some of us want the bosses of quests or delves to be actually challenging

From the OP. And many of us clarified our positions with not including PBs, Dolmen, WBs. Explaining that the penultimate boss of a quest chain should feel like a boss. Though I have mentioned delves several times not included in the 'overland', I thought he meant the delve bosses that quests had you do, rather than the rando you kill because it's sits in there.

It is NOT a Major part of the game.

It's a majority of the game. Most of the content is questing stuff that is overland and where that brings you. The content added each chapter and DLC, which continuously treats the whole world like it's an afterthought. That would have us suspend disbelief but tell us majordomo X is so powerful, and he dies in 2 hits.

Most of the time I quest I feel resentment that quest bits aren't instanced, that not only do I have to deal with extremely easy bosses, but there's a good chance some random person runs in and starts nuking them too. Now boss that I could kill in a few hits myself, instantly dies completely destroying any immersion in the story.

Maybe I'm older than you are, But Nobody complains this hard about something this insignificant without having Something else that they want to accomplish.

Could be. Maybe not. Or could be that people just are incapable of arguing a position as stated. How hard is it to understand that this game with every chapter and DLC release, brings for another story arc. One that can be smashed through solo, but generally have a bunch of other players smashing through with you, extremely easily.

I came to the forums because after doing Elsweyr completion I just felt cheated. Most of the story was good but I left it feeling like the experience was cheapened by how easy it was. This left me feeling bored and wondering if that aspect of the game was even worth paying more money for.

At least in GW2 the living season come free as long as you are logged in during a particular bit. ESO makes you pay for it and the only reason I feel like this chapter was worth it is because the Necromancer. But I began to question redoing all the content of my original main on the new necromancer was actually going to keep me occupied without feeling like it was so easy that the story completion would leave me feeling more bored than entertained.

This is why I came to the forums. And lo and behold, right there on the first page was this thread with other people expressing the exact same concerns I was feeling.

I don't need more rewards. I don't need anything else except not feeling bored to tears doing the story content which makes up a majority of this game, and is only bearable when the storytelling is superb, which isn't always the case.

Disagree.

It's Not a Majority of the game because IF you want you can simply avoid it - Completely.

You do not have to fight Anything if you don't Choose to.

It Can't be considered a ' Majority ' of the game if it can be simply ignored.

I could not even estimate the many many many characters I have seen running across my screen, being pursued by several mobs. It's not that the character could not stop and kill them. The player just has better things to do - like reaching their actual objective and participating in whatever that issue is.

Overland is Flavor.

Now you’re just outright lying

Questing is not avoidable in any way. You need it for Psijic. You need it for crafting area access. You need it to have access to many dailies. You need it for skill points. You need it for Soul Magic. You need it to experience a damn story

You’re not some old wisened Yoda, you’re just being a nuisance who clearly has no interest in actual debate, who believes all players are infantile creatures that would immediately throw out the whole game if a quest boss actually had a chance to kill them.

Then start removing points from all your passives, and use only one bar, and don't LA weave. Just keep going down the list until you've found the right level of "difficulty" for yourself, then play the rest of the game that way.

That's like suggesting if someone is too smart for a class they should take a crowbar to their head until they are brain damaged enough to where that class challenges them - instead of seeking out a more challenging class they could actually have fun learning in.

It's preposterous.

In the context of a game with pre defined parameters, that's what you need to do if that is the thrill you seek.

I don't find purposely gimping myself thrilling. I find it stupid. In any context.

Then you aren't interested in challenge.

Move along.

Not when that challenge involves me stripping my character and purposely myself suck. You are right about that.... That doesn't interest me in the least.

And you're going to do what about it?

You have four basic options. They are thus.

1. You could modify your own experience through tinkering with your gear/CP/imposing various challenges on yours.
2. You could modify your expectations.
3. You could find something else to play that gives you the experience you desire.
4. You could complain on this forum about it, which has a 100% failure rate and will accomplish precisely nothing what so ever.

I don't think you're bad or wrong if you actually do want a different sort of challenge, but you have to acknowledge the reality of the situation. ZOS isn't going to make radical changes to the overworld experience. That's just not going to happen. There is no negotiation. It isn't even a discussion. They picked a direction with One Tamriel and they haven't budged from it one bit since. That's pretty heavily telling.

Nobody on this forum can help you change the game. You're stuck with options 1, 2 or 3 for anything with any practical value at all.

Jeremy

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Chadak wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Why don't you remove all your CP's, and take your gear off if you want difficulty for the sake of difficulty?

People already have, and it’s still pointlessly easy

barney2525 wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

You are right. No one mentioned the rewards.

But no one ever mentions their Real ultimate goals either.

Must be really nice for people like you to pull absolutely BS out their arse to attack that argument, rather than the on-going actual discussion. You have NEVER gotten good rewards from quest content. NEVER. So this fixation and pretending peopel thinking overland content is too easy because they want better rewards is just inane. Stop. Just stop.

Nope

If you had paid any attention, you would have seen I have been addressing the issue.

The idea that the Main Focus of this or any other game of this type is to have the "wandering monsters" be the most dangerous and horribly hard for characters to kill is just plain ridiculous. The character needs to get from point A to point B to pursue the actual Mission (whatever it may be). Overland is simply Filler. It's Nuisance. It is DESIGNED to be minimal effort - especially for higher powered characters. To think otherwise makes no sense. It is NOT a Major part of the game.

So, if I see someone so adamant about Making it some Major part of the game, I start wondering Why. It's Not because "it's too easy". That would be something you complain about if you get to a world boss and it falls over in 3 hits.

That's Not what Overland is. Overland is Not Supposed to be hard, and it is functioning Exactly as it is supposed to. You tell me - WHY DOES ANYONE CARE THAT IS IS EASY TO GET FROM POINT A TO POINT B?


IMHO

I can run through everything just like I would with CP and gear on. There's virtually no chance of me dying against trash mobs, even the "bosses" of quests are not a challenge. When we talk about the game being too easy, this is the number one issue.

But you know some of us, actually want a little bit of a challenge, we want to die to trash mobs if we aggro too many, ESPECIALLY in the overworld. Some of us want the bosses of quests or delves to be actually challenging

From the OP. And many of us clarified our positions with not including PBs, Dolmen, WBs. Explaining that the penultimate boss of a quest chain should feel like a boss. Though I have mentioned delves several times not included in the 'overland', I thought he meant the delve bosses that quests had you do, rather than the rando you kill because it's sits in there.

It is NOT a Major part of the game.

It's a majority of the game. Most of the content is questing stuff that is overland and where that brings you. The content added each chapter and DLC, which continuously treats the whole world like it's an afterthought. That would have us suspend disbelief but tell us majordomo X is so powerful, and he dies in 2 hits.

Most of the time I quest I feel resentment that quest bits aren't instanced, that not only do I have to deal with extremely easy bosses, but there's a good chance some random person runs in and starts nuking them too. Now boss that I could kill in a few hits myself, instantly dies completely destroying any immersion in the story.

Maybe I'm older than you are, But Nobody complains this hard about something this insignificant without having Something else that they want to accomplish.

Could be. Maybe not. Or could be that people just are incapable of arguing a position as stated. How hard is it to understand that this game with every chapter and DLC release, brings for another story arc. One that can be smashed through solo, but generally have a bunch of other players smashing through with you, extremely easily.

I came to the forums because after doing Elsweyr completion I just felt cheated. Most of the story was good but I left it feeling like the experience was cheapened by how easy it was. This left me feeling bored and wondering if that aspect of the game was even worth paying more money for.

At least in GW2 the living season come free as long as you are logged in during a particular bit. ESO makes you pay for it and the only reason I feel like this chapter was worth it is because the Necromancer. But I began to question redoing all the content of my original main on the new necromancer was actually going to keep me occupied without feeling like it was so easy that the story completion would leave me feeling more bored than entertained.

This is why I came to the forums. And lo and behold, right there on the first page was this thread with other people expressing the exact same concerns I was feeling.

I don't need more rewards. I don't need anything else except not feeling bored to tears doing the story content which makes up a majority of this game, and is only bearable when the storytelling is superb, which isn't always the case.

Disagree.

It's Not a Majority of the game because IF you want you can simply avoid it - Completely.

You do not have to fight Anything if you don't Choose to.

It Can't be considered a ' Majority ' of the game if it can be simply ignored.

I could not even estimate the many many many characters I have seen running across my screen, being pursued by several mobs. It's not that the character could not stop and kill them. The player just has better things to do - like reaching their actual objective and participating in whatever that issue is.

Overland is Flavor.

Now you’re just outright lying

Questing is not avoidable in any way. You need it for Psijic. You need it for crafting area access. You need it to have access to many dailies. You need it for skill points. You need it for Soul Magic. You need it to experience a damn story

You’re not some old wisened Yoda, you’re just being a nuisance who clearly has no interest in actual debate, who believes all players are infantile creatures that would immediately throw out the whole game if a quest boss actually had a chance to kill them.

Then start removing points from all your passives, and use only one bar, and don't LA weave. Just keep going down the list until you've found the right level of "difficulty" for yourself, then play the rest of the game that way.

That's like suggesting if someone is too smart for a class they should take a crowbar to their head until they are brain damaged enough to where that class challenges them - instead of seeking out a more challenging class they could actually have fun learning in.

It's preposterous.

In the context of a game with pre defined parameters, that's what you need to do if that is the thrill you seek.

I don't find purposely gimping myself thrilling. I find it stupid. In any context.

Then you aren't interested in challenge.

Move along.

Challenge is key part of gameplay, but not the only part. Another essential part of any RPG is your build. You may go for full glass-cannon build in VMA for example with reward of higher scores but this will require times more skill then completing VMA as petsorc or WW. But in overland even if you are full glass cannon you still cannot die.. so if you remove your armor etc you will simply kill mobs longer, but they still can't kill you if you do basic actions like not standing in aoe and blocking/dodging heavy attacks. So now you will propose not to dodge aoes and heavy attacks? what's left of gameplay then? you don't have build, you can't use CP perks which unlock mechanics, you can't use active defense, you can't use heals.. so you just stay in front of mobs in aoe light attacking them and then you finally die and feel accomplishment - "I finally found challenge"?

I know.

The whole point of an RPG is to make your character more powerful by collecting gear and experience. This idea that you should remove all of that to try and make the game more fun is like saying you should get rid of the football to have fun on a football field. It defeats the whole purpose of the game itself - at which point there is really no point in playing it at all.

Jeremy

Chadak wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Chadak wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Why don't you remove all your CP's, and take your gear off if you want difficulty for the sake of difficulty?

People already have, and it’s still pointlessly easy

barney2525 wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

You are right. No one mentioned the rewards.

But no one ever mentions their Real ultimate goals either.

Must be really nice for people like you to pull absolutely BS out their arse to attack that argument, rather than the on-going actual discussion. You have NEVER gotten good rewards from quest content. NEVER. So this fixation and pretending peopel thinking overland content is too easy because they want better rewards is just inane. Stop. Just stop.

Nope

If you had paid any attention, you would have seen I have been addressing the issue.

The idea that the Main Focus of this or any other game of this type is to have the "wandering monsters" be the most dangerous and horribly hard for characters to kill is just plain ridiculous. The character needs to get from point A to point B to pursue the actual Mission (whatever it may be). Overland is simply Filler. It's Nuisance. It is DESIGNED to be minimal effort - especially for higher powered characters. To think otherwise makes no sense. It is NOT a Major part of the game.

So, if I see someone so adamant about Making it some Major part of the game, I start wondering Why. It's Not because "it's too easy". That would be something you complain about if you get to a world boss and it falls over in 3 hits.

That's Not what Overland is. Overland is Not Supposed to be hard, and it is functioning Exactly as it is supposed to. You tell me - WHY DOES ANYONE CARE THAT IS IS EASY TO GET FROM POINT A TO POINT B?


IMHO

I can run through everything just like I would with CP and gear on. There's virtually no chance of me dying against trash mobs, even the "bosses" of quests are not a challenge. When we talk about the game being too easy, this is the number one issue.

But you know some of us, actually want a little bit of a challenge, we want to die to trash mobs if we aggro too many, ESPECIALLY in the overworld. Some of us want the bosses of quests or delves to be actually challenging

From the OP. And many of us clarified our positions with not including PBs, Dolmen, WBs. Explaining that the penultimate boss of a quest chain should feel like a boss. Though I have mentioned delves several times not included in the 'overland', I thought he meant the delve bosses that quests had you do, rather than the rando you kill because it's sits in there.

It is NOT a Major part of the game.

It's a majority of the game. Most of the content is questing stuff that is overland and where that brings you. The content added each chapter and DLC, which continuously treats the whole world like it's an afterthought. That would have us suspend disbelief but tell us majordomo X is so powerful, and he dies in 2 hits.

Most of the time I quest I feel resentment that quest bits aren't instanced, that not only do I have to deal with extremely easy bosses, but there's a good chance some random person runs in and starts nuking them too. Now boss that I could kill in a few hits myself, instantly dies completely destroying any immersion in the story.

Maybe I'm older than you are, But Nobody complains this hard about something this insignificant without having Something else that they want to accomplish.

Could be. Maybe not. Or could be that people just are incapable of arguing a position as stated. How hard is it to understand that this game with every chapter and DLC release, brings for another story arc. One that can be smashed through solo, but generally have a bunch of other players smashing through with you, extremely easily.

I came to the forums because after doing Elsweyr completion I just felt cheated. Most of the story was good but I left it feeling like the experience was cheapened by how easy it was. This left me feeling bored and wondering if that aspect of the game was even worth paying more money for.

At least in GW2 the living season come free as long as you are logged in during a particular bit. ESO makes you pay for it and the only reason I feel like this chapter was worth it is because the Necromancer. But I began to question redoing all the content of my original main on the new necromancer was actually going to keep me occupied without feeling like it was so easy that the story completion would leave me feeling more bored than entertained.

This is why I came to the forums. And lo and behold, right there on the first page was this thread with other people expressing the exact same concerns I was feeling.

I don't need more rewards. I don't need anything else except not feeling bored to tears doing the story content which makes up a majority of this game, and is only bearable when the storytelling is superb, which isn't always the case.

Disagree.

It's Not a Majority of the game because IF you want you can simply avoid it - Completely.

You do not have to fight Anything if you don't Choose to.

It Can't be considered a ' Majority ' of the game if it can be simply ignored.

I could not even estimate the many many many characters I have seen running across my screen, being pursued by several mobs. It's not that the character could not stop and kill them. The player just has better things to do - like reaching their actual objective and participating in whatever that issue is.

Overland is Flavor.

Now you’re just outright lying

Questing is not avoidable in any way. You need it for Psijic. You need it for crafting area access. You need it to have access to many dailies. You need it for skill points. You need it for Soul Magic. You need it to experience a damn story

You’re not some old wisened Yoda, you’re just being a nuisance who clearly has no interest in actual debate, who believes all players are infantile creatures that would immediately throw out the whole game if a quest boss actually had a chance to kill them.

Then start removing points from all your passives, and use only one bar, and don't LA weave. Just keep going down the list until you've found the right level of "difficulty" for yourself, then play the rest of the game that way.

That's like suggesting if someone is too smart for a class they should take a crowbar to their head until they are brain damaged enough to where that class challenges them - instead of seeking out a more challenging class they could actually have fun learning in.

It's preposterous.

In the context of a game with pre defined parameters, that's what you need to do if that is the thrill you seek.

I don't find purposely gimping myself thrilling. I find it stupid. In any context.

Then you aren't interested in challenge.

Move along.

Not when that challenge involves me stripping my character and purposely myself suck. You are right about that.... That doesn't interest me in the least.

And you're going to do what about it?

You have four basic options. They are thus.

1. You could modify your own experience through tinkering with your gear/CP/imposing various challenges on yours.
2. You could modify your expectations.
3. You could find something else to play that gives you the experience you desire.
4. You could complain on this forum about it, which has a 100% failure rate and will accomplish precisely nothing what so ever.

I don't think you're bad or wrong if you actually do want a different sort of challenge, but you have to acknowledge the reality of the situation. ZOS isn't going to make radical changes to the overworld experience. That's just not going to happen. There is no negotiation. It isn't even a discussion. They picked a direction with One Tamriel and they haven't budged from it one bit since. That's pretty heavily telling.

Nobody on this forum can help you change the game. You're stuck with options 1, 2 or 3 for anything with any practical value at all.

I don't know why you think asking for improvements on the forum has 100% failure rate. To be honest they have been fairly receptive to many of my complaints in the past. Not all of my requests have been honored mind you. But quite a few of them have been. So I'm actually optimistic they will do something about this one - especially considering how much traffic this issue gets on the forum. I think the developers are aware there is a problem with the way their content scales in respect to high-end players. That's probably one of the reasons they are taking another look at their CP system.