Seriously, this game is too easy and the overworld needs to be buffed heavily.

Sylvermynx

@Wifeaggro13 - I started playing pnp RPGs in the mid 70s with AD&D. I ran games for my daughter and her friends from jr high. So - yeah... a LONG time back. The whole point of the game was for the players to have fun. That didn't mean they got to have so much uber gear that I (the GM) had to overmanage scenarios.

Jhalin

Sylvermynx wrote: »

@Wifeaggro13 - I started playing pnp RPGs in the mid 70s with AD&D. I ran games for my daughter and her friends from jr high. So - yeah... a LONG time back. The whole point of the game was for the players to have fun. That didn't mean they got to have so much uber gear that I (the GM) had to overmanage scenarios.

Please go loot at the “elite dangerous mob” fight posted here where someone stood still, no CP, unarmed, and naked, and was still under no threat of dying as they light attacked it to death. It’s never been the gear, it’s that the game was poorly designed post OT and provides no challenge

Wifeaggro13

Sylvermynx wrote: »

@Wifeaggro13 - I started playing pnp RPGs in the mid 70s with AD&D. I ran games for my daughter and her friends from jr high. So - yeah... a LONG time back. The whole point of the game was for the players to have fun. That didn't mean they got to have so much uber gear that I (the GM) had to overmanage scenarios.

so your campaign consisted of all level one e in leather armor killing your epic storyline. the point of pen and paper was to create a massivs story for your players to emerge and role play their way through.the core mechanic was at the end of the campaign was to make sure your characters had advanced had aquired what they needed to save the day, kill the villan and or fight each other for the protagonist role depending on party alingment. PC gaming was a whole other ball of wax the main component was advancing your character so you could progress the storyline . in those games gear meant something they had a hiistory you could obtain a sword and read a massive story about that item when you examed it. and you know it was something special because it would have a name. this has been lost in corporate RPG's . hell even skyrim had ultra weapons and they were hard to obtain. and your scenario of uber items would be a monty hall campaign. if you followed the DM guide and pre rolled your drops before your campaign started it was quite easy to manage.everything in 2nd edtition had loot tables and if you followed the guide lines it would be pretty easy to manage.

Ydrisselle

Jhalin wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Chadak wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Why don't you remove all your CP's, and take your gear off if you want difficulty for the sake of difficulty?

People already have, and it’s still pointlessly easy

barney2525 wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

You are right. No one mentioned the rewards.

But no one ever mentions their Real ultimate goals either.

Must be really nice for people like you to pull absolutely BS out their arse to attack that argument, rather than the on-going actual discussion. You have NEVER gotten good rewards from quest content. NEVER. So this fixation and pretending peopel thinking overland content is too easy because they want better rewards is just inane. Stop. Just stop.

Nope

If you had paid any attention, you would have seen I have been addressing the issue.

The idea that the Main Focus of this or any other game of this type is to have the "wandering monsters" be the most dangerous and horribly hard for characters to kill is just plain ridiculous. The character needs to get from point A to point B to pursue the actual Mission (whatever it may be). Overland is simply Filler. It's Nuisance. It is DESIGNED to be minimal effort - especially for higher powered characters. To think otherwise makes no sense. It is NOT a Major part of the game.

So, if I see someone so adamant about Making it some Major part of the game, I start wondering Why. It's Not because "it's too easy". That would be something you complain about if you get to a world boss and it falls over in 3 hits.

That's Not what Overland is. Overland is Not Supposed to be hard, and it is functioning Exactly as it is supposed to. You tell me - WHY DOES ANYONE CARE THAT IS IS EASY TO GET FROM POINT A TO POINT B?


IMHO

I can run through everything just like I would with CP and gear on. There's virtually no chance of me dying against trash mobs, even the "bosses" of quests are not a challenge. When we talk about the game being too easy, this is the number one issue.

But you know some of us, actually want a little bit of a challenge, we want to die to trash mobs if we aggro too many, ESPECIALLY in the overworld. Some of us want the bosses of quests or delves to be actually challenging

From the OP. And many of us clarified our positions with not including PBs, Dolmen, WBs. Explaining that the penultimate boss of a quest chain should feel like a boss. Though I have mentioned delves several times not included in the 'overland', I thought he meant the delve bosses that quests had you do, rather than the rando you kill because it's sits in there.

It is NOT a Major part of the game.

It's a majority of the game. Most of the content is questing stuff that is overland and where that brings you. The content added each chapter and DLC, which continuously treats the whole world like it's an afterthought. That would have us suspend disbelief but tell us majordomo X is so powerful, and he dies in 2 hits.

Most of the time I quest I feel resentment that quest bits aren't instanced, that not only do I have to deal with extremely easy bosses, but there's a good chance some random person runs in and starts nuking them too. Now boss that I could kill in a few hits myself, instantly dies completely destroying any immersion in the story.

Maybe I'm older than you are, But Nobody complains this hard about something this insignificant without having Something else that they want to accomplish.

Could be. Maybe not. Or could be that people just are incapable of arguing a position as stated. How hard is it to understand that this game with every chapter and DLC release, brings for another story arc. One that can be smashed through solo, but generally have a bunch of other players smashing through with you, extremely easily.

I came to the forums because after doing Elsweyr completion I just felt cheated. Most of the story was good but I left it feeling like the experience was cheapened by how easy it was. This left me feeling bored and wondering if that aspect of the game was even worth paying more money for.

At least in GW2 the living season come free as long as you are logged in during a particular bit. ESO makes you pay for it and the only reason I feel like this chapter was worth it is because the Necromancer. But I began to question redoing all the content of my original main on the new necromancer was actually going to keep me occupied without feeling like it was so easy that the story completion would leave me feeling more bored than entertained.

This is why I came to the forums. And lo and behold, right there on the first page was this thread with other people expressing the exact same concerns I was feeling.

I don't need more rewards. I don't need anything else except not feeling bored to tears doing the story content which makes up a majority of this game, and is only bearable when the storytelling is superb, which isn't always the case.

Disagree.

It's Not a Majority of the game because IF you want you can simply avoid it - Completely.

You do not have to fight Anything if you don't Choose to.

It Can't be considered a ' Majority ' of the game if it can be simply ignored.

I could not even estimate the many many many characters I have seen running across my screen, being pursued by several mobs. It's not that the character could not stop and kill them. The player just has better things to do - like reaching their actual objective and participating in whatever that issue is.

Overland is Flavor.

Now you’re just outright lying

Questing is not avoidable in any way. You need it for Psijic. You need it for crafting area access. You need it to have access to many dailies. You need it for skill points. You need it for Soul Magic. You need it to experience a damn story

You’re not some old wisened Yoda, you’re just being a nuisance who clearly has no interest in actual debate, who believes all players are infantile creatures that would immediately throw out the whole game if a quest boss actually had a chance to kill them.

Then start removing points from all your passives, and use only one bar, and don't LA weave. Just keep going down the list until you've found the right level of "difficulty" for yourself, then play the rest of the game that way.

That's like suggesting if someone is too smart for a class they should take a crowbar to their head until they are brain damaged enough to where that class challenges them - instead of seeking out a more challenging class they could actually have fun learning in.

It's preposterous.

In the context of a game with pre defined parameters, that's what you need to do if that is the thrill you seek.

I don't find purposely gimping myself thrilling. I find it stupid. In any context.

Then you aren't interested in challenge.

Move along.

Challenge is key part of gameplay, but not the only part. Another essential part of any RPG is your build. You may go for full glass-cannon build in VMA for example with reward of higher scores but this will require times more skill then completing VMA as petsorc or WW. But in overland even if you are full glass cannon you still cannot die.. so if you remove your armor etc you will simply kill mobs longer, but they still can't kill you if you do basic actions like not standing in aoe and blocking/dodging heavy attacks. So now you will propose not to dodge aoes and heavy attacks? what's left of gameplay then? you don't have build, you can't use CP perks which unlock mechanics, you can't use active defense, you can't use heals.. so you just stay in front of mobs in aoe light attacking them and then you finally die and feel accomplishment - "I finally found challenge"?

I know.

The whole point of an RPG is to make your character more powerful by collecting gear and experience. This idea that you should remove all of that to try and make the game more fun is like saying you should get rid of the football to have fun on a football field. It defeats the whole purpose of the game itself - at which point there is really no point in playing it at all.

Um. Have to disagree. The whole point of an RPG is that I have fun playing it. And RP'ing it. Right now, with new faster 'net, I'm going to be able to do stuff I haven't been able to do before - like bar swapping.... And I'm going to fully enjoy that. But the bottom line for me is - I am having fun in this game.

When it stops being fun, I'll stop playing it. Making overland harder? Eh, nope thanks. I play games (especially TES) for the stories.

Now.... I'm on board for a toggle that gives people like you a DiD option. Go for it, ZOS. And when you die repeatedly.... well... remember you asked for it.

Hit dog barks.

I’d recommend actually reading the OP before posting comments unrelated to what’s being asked for. Also, if a tiny modicum of challenge would make a game unfun, then what you want is a graphic novel, not a game. There is no immersing yourself as hero in a world that poses no threat. No boss can kill you unless you quite literally stand in place and don’t attack with any weapon (which is given in the tutorials), no abilities (which are recommended by the level up advisor), no food (which you loot), no potions (which the game throws at you), no enchants (which are also thrown at you), you don’t block (which is taught in the tutorial), don’t bash (tutorial), and don’t dodge roll

We want actual quest bosses, we want something that gives a sense of accomplishment when we defeat it instead of feeling like we just stepped on a small bug because someone claimed that bug was a huge monsterous fiend that was nigh unstoppable to all challengers before we arrived

I can count on one hand the quest bosses that remotely felt like a boss, even with no CP, with no food, while standing on reds, not even following basic mechanics of the game.

The game sets up a big fight and a strong villain, and it fails to deliver in every way.

It is completely and utterly unreasonable, as well as plain stupid, to imply that the right way to get a challenge in the vast majority of this game’s content is to ignore everything the game has ever provided, and use none of the basic knowledge the TUTORIAL teaches you, then light attack everything to death.

That’s what you’re suggesting, to be crap at the game intentionally, and even then, the enemies still aren’t a threat. It’s ridiculous

It seems you doesn't know Sylvermynx - she had 2000+ ms ping with a bad connection up until now, so she had very little chance to block, dodge or bash. Your suggestion would mean she shouldn't play at all...

Sylvermynx

Ydrisselle wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Chadak wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Why don't you remove all your CP's, and take your gear off if you want difficulty for the sake of difficulty?

People already have, and it’s still pointlessly easy

barney2525 wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

You are right. No one mentioned the rewards.

But no one ever mentions their Real ultimate goals either.

Must be really nice for people like you to pull absolutely BS out their arse to attack that argument, rather than the on-going actual discussion. You have NEVER gotten good rewards from quest content. NEVER. So this fixation and pretending peopel thinking overland content is too easy because they want better rewards is just inane. Stop. Just stop.

Nope

If you had paid any attention, you would have seen I have been addressing the issue.

The idea that the Main Focus of this or any other game of this type is to have the "wandering monsters" be the most dangerous and horribly hard for characters to kill is just plain ridiculous. The character needs to get from point A to point B to pursue the actual Mission (whatever it may be). Overland is simply Filler. It's Nuisance. It is DESIGNED to be minimal effort - especially for higher powered characters. To think otherwise makes no sense. It is NOT a Major part of the game.

So, if I see someone so adamant about Making it some Major part of the game, I start wondering Why. It's Not because "it's too easy". That would be something you complain about if you get to a world boss and it falls over in 3 hits.

That's Not what Overland is. Overland is Not Supposed to be hard, and it is functioning Exactly as it is supposed to. You tell me - WHY DOES ANYONE CARE THAT IS IS EASY TO GET FROM POINT A TO POINT B?


IMHO

I can run through everything just like I would with CP and gear on. There's virtually no chance of me dying against trash mobs, even the "bosses" of quests are not a challenge. When we talk about the game being too easy, this is the number one issue.

But you know some of us, actually want a little bit of a challenge, we want to die to trash mobs if we aggro too many, ESPECIALLY in the overworld. Some of us want the bosses of quests or delves to be actually challenging

From the OP. And many of us clarified our positions with not including PBs, Dolmen, WBs. Explaining that the penultimate boss of a quest chain should feel like a boss. Though I have mentioned delves several times not included in the 'overland', I thought he meant the delve bosses that quests had you do, rather than the rando you kill because it's sits in there.

It is NOT a Major part of the game.

It's a majority of the game. Most of the content is questing stuff that is overland and where that brings you. The content added each chapter and DLC, which continuously treats the whole world like it's an afterthought. That would have us suspend disbelief but tell us majordomo X is so powerful, and he dies in 2 hits.

Most of the time I quest I feel resentment that quest bits aren't instanced, that not only do I have to deal with extremely easy bosses, but there's a good chance some random person runs in and starts nuking them too. Now boss that I could kill in a few hits myself, instantly dies completely destroying any immersion in the story.

Maybe I'm older than you are, But Nobody complains this hard about something this insignificant without having Something else that they want to accomplish.

Could be. Maybe not. Or could be that people just are incapable of arguing a position as stated. How hard is it to understand that this game with every chapter and DLC release, brings for another story arc. One that can be smashed through solo, but generally have a bunch of other players smashing through with you, extremely easily.

I came to the forums because after doing Elsweyr completion I just felt cheated. Most of the story was good but I left it feeling like the experience was cheapened by how easy it was. This left me feeling bored and wondering if that aspect of the game was even worth paying more money for.

At least in GW2 the living season come free as long as you are logged in during a particular bit. ESO makes you pay for it and the only reason I feel like this chapter was worth it is because the Necromancer. But I began to question redoing all the content of my original main on the new necromancer was actually going to keep me occupied without feeling like it was so easy that the story completion would leave me feeling more bored than entertained.

This is why I came to the forums. And lo and behold, right there on the first page was this thread with other people expressing the exact same concerns I was feeling.

I don't need more rewards. I don't need anything else except not feeling bored to tears doing the story content which makes up a majority of this game, and is only bearable when the storytelling is superb, which isn't always the case.

Disagree.

It's Not a Majority of the game because IF you want you can simply avoid it - Completely.

You do not have to fight Anything if you don't Choose to.

It Can't be considered a ' Majority ' of the game if it can be simply ignored.

I could not even estimate the many many many characters I have seen running across my screen, being pursued by several mobs. It's not that the character could not stop and kill them. The player just has better things to do - like reaching their actual objective and participating in whatever that issue is.

Overland is Flavor.

Now you’re just outright lying

Questing is not avoidable in any way. You need it for Psijic. You need it for crafting area access. You need it to have access to many dailies. You need it for skill points. You need it for Soul Magic. You need it to experience a damn story

You’re not some old wisened Yoda, you’re just being a nuisance who clearly has no interest in actual debate, who believes all players are infantile creatures that would immediately throw out the whole game if a quest boss actually had a chance to kill them.

Then start removing points from all your passives, and use only one bar, and don't LA weave. Just keep going down the list until you've found the right level of "difficulty" for yourself, then play the rest of the game that way.

That's like suggesting if someone is too smart for a class they should take a crowbar to their head until they are brain damaged enough to where that class challenges them - instead of seeking out a more challenging class they could actually have fun learning in.

It's preposterous.

In the context of a game with pre defined parameters, that's what you need to do if that is the thrill you seek.

I don't find purposely gimping myself thrilling. I find it stupid. In any context.

Then you aren't interested in challenge.

Move along.

Challenge is key part of gameplay, but not the only part. Another essential part of any RPG is your build. You may go for full glass-cannon build in VMA for example with reward of higher scores but this will require times more skill then completing VMA as petsorc or WW. But in overland even if you are full glass cannon you still cannot die.. so if you remove your armor etc you will simply kill mobs longer, but they still can't kill you if you do basic actions like not standing in aoe and blocking/dodging heavy attacks. So now you will propose not to dodge aoes and heavy attacks? what's left of gameplay then? you don't have build, you can't use CP perks which unlock mechanics, you can't use active defense, you can't use heals.. so you just stay in front of mobs in aoe light attacking them and then you finally die and feel accomplishment - "I finally found challenge"?

I know.

The whole point of an RPG is to make your character more powerful by collecting gear and experience. This idea that you should remove all of that to try and make the game more fun is like saying you should get rid of the football to have fun on a football field. It defeats the whole purpose of the game itself - at which point there is really no point in playing it at all.

Um. Have to disagree. The whole point of an RPG is that I have fun playing it. And RP'ing it. Right now, with new faster 'net, I'm going to be able to do stuff I haven't been able to do before - like bar swapping.... And I'm going to fully enjoy that. But the bottom line for me is - I am having fun in this game.

When it stops being fun, I'll stop playing it. Making overland harder? Eh, nope thanks. I play games (especially TES) for the stories.

Now.... I'm on board for a toggle that gives people like you a DiD option. Go for it, ZOS. And when you die repeatedly.... well... remember you asked for it.

Hit dog barks.

I’d recommend actually reading the OP before posting comments unrelated to what’s being asked for. Also, if a tiny modicum of challenge would make a game unfun, then what you want is a graphic novel, not a game. There is no immersing yourself as hero in a world that poses no threat. No boss can kill you unless you quite literally stand in place and don’t attack with any weapon (which is given in the tutorials), no abilities (which are recommended by the level up advisor), no food (which you loot), no potions (which the game throws at you), no enchants (which are also thrown at you), you don’t block (which is taught in the tutorial), don’t bash (tutorial), and don’t dodge roll

We want actual quest bosses, we want something that gives a sense of accomplishment when we defeat it instead of feeling like we just stepped on a small bug because someone claimed that bug was a huge monsterous fiend that was nigh unstoppable to all challengers before we arrived

I can count on one hand the quest bosses that remotely felt like a boss, even with no CP, with no food, while standing on reds, not even following basic mechanics of the game.

The game sets up a big fight and a strong villain, and it fails to deliver in every way.

It is completely and utterly unreasonable, as well as plain stupid, to imply that the right way to get a challenge in the vast majority of this game’s content is to ignore everything the game has ever provided, and use none of the basic knowledge the TUTORIAL teaches you, then light attack everything to death.

That’s what you’re suggesting, to be crap at the game intentionally, and even then, the enemies still aren’t a threat. It’s ridiculous

It seems you doesn't know Sylvermynx - she had 2000+ ms ping with a bad connection up until now, so she had very little chance to block, dodge or bash. Your suggestion would mean she shouldn't play at all...

Thanks Ydri. Yes, net is much better now. Unimaginably better for people living in an area without "real broadband"!

Actually, I was meaning providing fun to kids who back then didn't have mobiles and games etc. Seriously, the mid 70s had some stuff.... board games, dirt bikes (parents didn't want their kids using them - including me....) So I invented fun with pencil and paper AD&D. We spent about 3 years having fun in a world outside our own. And then of course RL happened. They all went off to college. A couple of them went to work later for companies like Bioware. Making games....

Life's a crapshoot. You might win. You might lose. But at some point, you realize that the only real thing that means anything - is.... did I help my kid(s) to have fun, and hopefully they also understood the world itself by doing so.

My daughter got it. A couple of the friends got it. Another didn't. And the rest.... play shooters. That's not bad.... just that they didn't really get roleplay. Yeah. I still talk to my daughter's jr high school friends....

Wifeaggro13

Ydrisselle wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Chadak wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Why don't you remove all your CP's, and take your gear off if you want difficulty for the sake of difficulty?

People already have, and it’s still pointlessly easy

barney2525 wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

You are right. No one mentioned the rewards.

But no one ever mentions their Real ultimate goals either.

Must be really nice for people like you to pull absolutely BS out their arse to attack that argument, rather than the on-going actual discussion. You have NEVER gotten good rewards from quest content. NEVER. So this fixation and pretending peopel thinking overland content is too easy because they want better rewards is just inane. Stop. Just stop.

Nope

If you had paid any attention, you would have seen I have been addressing the issue.

The idea that the Main Focus of this or any other game of this type is to have the "wandering monsters" be the most dangerous and horribly hard for characters to kill is just plain ridiculous. The character needs to get from point A to point B to pursue the actual Mission (whatever it may be). Overland is simply Filler. It's Nuisance. It is DESIGNED to be minimal effort - especially for higher powered characters. To think otherwise makes no sense. It is NOT a Major part of the game.

So, if I see someone so adamant about Making it some Major part of the game, I start wondering Why. It's Not because "it's too easy". That would be something you complain about if you get to a world boss and it falls over in 3 hits.

That's Not what Overland is. Overland is Not Supposed to be hard, and it is functioning Exactly as it is supposed to. You tell me - WHY DOES ANYONE CARE THAT IS IS EASY TO GET FROM POINT A TO POINT B?


IMHO

I can run through everything just like I would with CP and gear on. There's virtually no chance of me dying against trash mobs, even the "bosses" of quests are not a challenge. When we talk about the game being too easy, this is the number one issue.

But you know some of us, actually want a little bit of a challenge, we want to die to trash mobs if we aggro too many, ESPECIALLY in the overworld. Some of us want the bosses of quests or delves to be actually challenging

From the OP. And many of us clarified our positions with not including PBs, Dolmen, WBs. Explaining that the penultimate boss of a quest chain should feel like a boss. Though I have mentioned delves several times not included in the 'overland', I thought he meant the delve bosses that quests had you do, rather than the rando you kill because it's sits in there.

It is NOT a Major part of the game.

It's a majority of the game. Most of the content is questing stuff that is overland and where that brings you. The content added each chapter and DLC, which continuously treats the whole world like it's an afterthought. That would have us suspend disbelief but tell us majordomo X is so powerful, and he dies in 2 hits.

Most of the time I quest I feel resentment that quest bits aren't instanced, that not only do I have to deal with extremely easy bosses, but there's a good chance some random person runs in and starts nuking them too. Now boss that I could kill in a few hits myself, instantly dies completely destroying any immersion in the story.

Maybe I'm older than you are, But Nobody complains this hard about something this insignificant without having Something else that they want to accomplish.

Could be. Maybe not. Or could be that people just are incapable of arguing a position as stated. How hard is it to understand that this game with every chapter and DLC release, brings for another story arc. One that can be smashed through solo, but generally have a bunch of other players smashing through with you, extremely easily.

I came to the forums because after doing Elsweyr completion I just felt cheated. Most of the story was good but I left it feeling like the experience was cheapened by how easy it was. This left me feeling bored and wondering if that aspect of the game was even worth paying more money for.

At least in GW2 the living season come free as long as you are logged in during a particular bit. ESO makes you pay for it and the only reason I feel like this chapter was worth it is because the Necromancer. But I began to question redoing all the content of my original main on the new necromancer was actually going to keep me occupied without feeling like it was so easy that the story completion would leave me feeling more bored than entertained.

This is why I came to the forums. And lo and behold, right there on the first page was this thread with other people expressing the exact same concerns I was feeling.

I don't need more rewards. I don't need anything else except not feeling bored to tears doing the story content which makes up a majority of this game, and is only bearable when the storytelling is superb, which isn't always the case.

Disagree.

It's Not a Majority of the game because IF you want you can simply avoid it - Completely.

You do not have to fight Anything if you don't Choose to.

It Can't be considered a ' Majority ' of the game if it can be simply ignored.

I could not even estimate the many many many characters I have seen running across my screen, being pursued by several mobs. It's not that the character could not stop and kill them. The player just has better things to do - like reaching their actual objective and participating in whatever that issue is.

Overland is Flavor.

Now you’re just outright lying

Questing is not avoidable in any way. You need it for Psijic. You need it for crafting area access. You need it to have access to many dailies. You need it for skill points. You need it for Soul Magic. You need it to experience a damn story

You’re not some old wisened Yoda, you’re just being a nuisance who clearly has no interest in actual debate, who believes all players are infantile creatures that would immediately throw out the whole game if a quest boss actually had a chance to kill them.

Then start removing points from all your passives, and use only one bar, and don't LA weave. Just keep going down the list until you've found the right level of "difficulty" for yourself, then play the rest of the game that way.

That's like suggesting if someone is too smart for a class they should take a crowbar to their head until they are brain damaged enough to where that class challenges them - instead of seeking out a more challenging class they could actually have fun learning in.

It's preposterous.

In the context of a game with pre defined parameters, that's what you need to do if that is the thrill you seek.

I don't find purposely gimping myself thrilling. I find it stupid. In any context.

Then you aren't interested in challenge.

Move along.

Challenge is key part of gameplay, but not the only part. Another essential part of any RPG is your build. You may go for full glass-cannon build in VMA for example with reward of higher scores but this will require times more skill then completing VMA as petsorc or WW. But in overland even if you are full glass cannon you still cannot die.. so if you remove your armor etc you will simply kill mobs longer, but they still can't kill you if you do basic actions like not standing in aoe and blocking/dodging heavy attacks. So now you will propose not to dodge aoes and heavy attacks? what's left of gameplay then? you don't have build, you can't use CP perks which unlock mechanics, you can't use active defense, you can't use heals.. so you just stay in front of mobs in aoe light attacking them and then you finally die and feel accomplishment - "I finally found challenge"?

I know.

The whole point of an RPG is to make your character more powerful by collecting gear and experience. This idea that you should remove all of that to try and make the game more fun is like saying you should get rid of the football to have fun on a football field. It defeats the whole purpose of the game itself - at which point there is really no point in playing it at all.

Um. Have to disagree. The whole point of an RPG is that I have fun playing it. And RP'ing it. Right now, with new faster 'net, I'm going to be able to do stuff I haven't been able to do before - like bar swapping.... And I'm going to fully enjoy that. But the bottom line for me is - I am having fun in this game.

When it stops being fun, I'll stop playing it. Making overland harder? Eh, nope thanks. I play games (especially TES) for the stories.

Now.... I'm on board for a toggle that gives people like you a DiD option. Go for it, ZOS. And when you die repeatedly.... well... remember you asked for it.

Hit dog barks.

I’d recommend actually reading the OP before posting comments unrelated to what’s being asked for. Also, if a tiny modicum of challenge would make a game unfun, then what you want is a graphic novel, not a game. There is no immersing yourself as hero in a world that poses no threat. No boss can kill you unless you quite literally stand in place and don’t attack with any weapon (which is given in the tutorials), no abilities (which are recommended by the level up advisor), no food (which you loot), no potions (which the game throws at you), no enchants (which are also thrown at you), you don’t block (which is taught in the tutorial), don’t bash (tutorial), and don’t dodge roll

We want actual quest bosses, we want something that gives a sense of accomplishment when we defeat it instead of feeling like we just stepped on a small bug because someone claimed that bug was a huge monsterous fiend that was nigh unstoppable to all challengers before we arrived

I can count on one hand the quest bosses that remotely felt like a boss, even with no CP, with no food, while standing on reds, not even following basic mechanics of the game.

The game sets up a big fight and a strong villain, and it fails to deliver in every way.

It is completely and utterly unreasonable, as well as plain stupid, to imply that the right way to get a challenge in the vast majority of this game’s content is to ignore everything the game has ever provided, and use none of the basic knowledge the TUTORIAL teaches you, then light attack everything to death.

That’s what you’re suggesting, to be crap at the game intentionally, and even then, the enemies still aren’t a threat. It’s ridiculous

It seems you doesn't know Sylvermynx - she had 2000+ ms ping with a bad connection up until now, so she had very little chance to block, dodge or bash. Your suggestion would mean she shouldn't play at all...

the game should not be designed to cater to 2000 ping. the game has some pretty specific min and suggested Reqs. from core components to suggested internet. with that said i think the issue is the game is flat. its the same diffculty when your lvl 1 or 320 cp which is the price of addmisssion for end game VR trials. ZOS did not do the community andy favors by not advancing content diffculty as you progress

Jhalin

Ydrisselle wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Chadak wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Why don't you remove all your CP's, and take your gear off if you want difficulty for the sake of difficulty?

People already have, and it’s still pointlessly easy

barney2525 wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

You are right. No one mentioned the rewards.

But no one ever mentions their Real ultimate goals either.

Must be really nice for people like you to pull absolutely BS out their arse to attack that argument, rather than the on-going actual discussion. You have NEVER gotten good rewards from quest content. NEVER. So this fixation and pretending peopel thinking overland content is too easy because they want better rewards is just inane. Stop. Just stop.

Nope

If you had paid any attention, you would have seen I have been addressing the issue.

The idea that the Main Focus of this or any other game of this type is to have the "wandering monsters" be the most dangerous and horribly hard for characters to kill is just plain ridiculous. The character needs to get from point A to point B to pursue the actual Mission (whatever it may be). Overland is simply Filler. It's Nuisance. It is DESIGNED to be minimal effort - especially for higher powered characters. To think otherwise makes no sense. It is NOT a Major part of the game.

So, if I see someone so adamant about Making it some Major part of the game, I start wondering Why. It's Not because "it's too easy". That would be something you complain about if you get to a world boss and it falls over in 3 hits.

That's Not what Overland is. Overland is Not Supposed to be hard, and it is functioning Exactly as it is supposed to. You tell me - WHY DOES ANYONE CARE THAT IS IS EASY TO GET FROM POINT A TO POINT B?


IMHO

I can run through everything just like I would with CP and gear on. There's virtually no chance of me dying against trash mobs, even the "bosses" of quests are not a challenge. When we talk about the game being too easy, this is the number one issue.

But you know some of us, actually want a little bit of a challenge, we want to die to trash mobs if we aggro too many, ESPECIALLY in the overworld. Some of us want the bosses of quests or delves to be actually challenging

From the OP. And many of us clarified our positions with not including PBs, Dolmen, WBs. Explaining that the penultimate boss of a quest chain should feel like a boss. Though I have mentioned delves several times not included in the 'overland', I thought he meant the delve bosses that quests had you do, rather than the rando you kill because it's sits in there.

It is NOT a Major part of the game.

It's a majority of the game. Most of the content is questing stuff that is overland and where that brings you. The content added each chapter and DLC, which continuously treats the whole world like it's an afterthought. That would have us suspend disbelief but tell us majordomo X is so powerful, and he dies in 2 hits.

Most of the time I quest I feel resentment that quest bits aren't instanced, that not only do I have to deal with extremely easy bosses, but there's a good chance some random person runs in and starts nuking them too. Now boss that I could kill in a few hits myself, instantly dies completely destroying any immersion in the story.

Maybe I'm older than you are, But Nobody complains this hard about something this insignificant without having Something else that they want to accomplish.

Could be. Maybe not. Or could be that people just are incapable of arguing a position as stated. How hard is it to understand that this game with every chapter and DLC release, brings for another story arc. One that can be smashed through solo, but generally have a bunch of other players smashing through with you, extremely easily.

I came to the forums because after doing Elsweyr completion I just felt cheated. Most of the story was good but I left it feeling like the experience was cheapened by how easy it was. This left me feeling bored and wondering if that aspect of the game was even worth paying more money for.

At least in GW2 the living season come free as long as you are logged in during a particular bit. ESO makes you pay for it and the only reason I feel like this chapter was worth it is because the Necromancer. But I began to question redoing all the content of my original main on the new necromancer was actually going to keep me occupied without feeling like it was so easy that the story completion would leave me feeling more bored than entertained.

This is why I came to the forums. And lo and behold, right there on the first page was this thread with other people expressing the exact same concerns I was feeling.

I don't need more rewards. I don't need anything else except not feeling bored to tears doing the story content which makes up a majority of this game, and is only bearable when the storytelling is superb, which isn't always the case.

Disagree.

It's Not a Majority of the game because IF you want you can simply avoid it - Completely.

You do not have to fight Anything if you don't Choose to.

It Can't be considered a ' Majority ' of the game if it can be simply ignored.

I could not even estimate the many many many characters I have seen running across my screen, being pursued by several mobs. It's not that the character could not stop and kill them. The player just has better things to do - like reaching their actual objective and participating in whatever that issue is.

Overland is Flavor.

Now you’re just outright lying

Questing is not avoidable in any way. You need it for Psijic. You need it for crafting area access. You need it to have access to many dailies. You need it for skill points. You need it for Soul Magic. You need it to experience a damn story

You’re not some old wisened Yoda, you’re just being a nuisance who clearly has no interest in actual debate, who believes all players are infantile creatures that would immediately throw out the whole game if a quest boss actually had a chance to kill them.

Then start removing points from all your passives, and use only one bar, and don't LA weave. Just keep going down the list until you've found the right level of "difficulty" for yourself, then play the rest of the game that way.

That's like suggesting if someone is too smart for a class they should take a crowbar to their head until they are brain damaged enough to where that class challenges them - instead of seeking out a more challenging class they could actually have fun learning in.

It's preposterous.

In the context of a game with pre defined parameters, that's what you need to do if that is the thrill you seek.

I don't find purposely gimping myself thrilling. I find it stupid. In any context.

Then you aren't interested in challenge.

Move along.

Challenge is key part of gameplay, but not the only part. Another essential part of any RPG is your build. You may go for full glass-cannon build in VMA for example with reward of higher scores but this will require times more skill then completing VMA as petsorc or WW. But in overland even if you are full glass cannon you still cannot die.. so if you remove your armor etc you will simply kill mobs longer, but they still can't kill you if you do basic actions like not standing in aoe and blocking/dodging heavy attacks. So now you will propose not to dodge aoes and heavy attacks? what's left of gameplay then? you don't have build, you can't use CP perks which unlock mechanics, you can't use active defense, you can't use heals.. so you just stay in front of mobs in aoe light attacking them and then you finally die and feel accomplishment - "I finally found challenge"?

I know.

The whole point of an RPG is to make your character more powerful by collecting gear and experience. This idea that you should remove all of that to try and make the game more fun is like saying you should get rid of the football to have fun on a football field. It defeats the whole purpose of the game itself - at which point there is really no point in playing it at all.

Um. Have to disagree. The whole point of an RPG is that I have fun playing it. And RP'ing it. Right now, with new faster 'net, I'm going to be able to do stuff I haven't been able to do before - like bar swapping.... And I'm going to fully enjoy that. But the bottom line for me is - I am having fun in this game.

When it stops being fun, I'll stop playing it. Making overland harder? Eh, nope thanks. I play games (especially TES) for the stories.

Now.... I'm on board for a toggle that gives people like you a DiD option. Go for it, ZOS. And when you die repeatedly.... well... remember you asked for it.

Hit dog barks.

I’d recommend actually reading the OP before posting comments unrelated to what’s being asked for. Also, if a tiny modicum of challenge would make a game unfun, then what you want is a graphic novel, not a game. There is no immersing yourself as hero in a world that poses no threat. No boss can kill you unless you quite literally stand in place and don’t attack with any weapon (which is given in the tutorials), no abilities (which are recommended by the level up advisor), no food (which you loot), no potions (which the game throws at you), no enchants (which are also thrown at you), you don’t block (which is taught in the tutorial), don’t bash (tutorial), and don’t dodge roll

We want actual quest bosses, we want something that gives a sense of accomplishment when we defeat it instead of feeling like we just stepped on a small bug because someone claimed that bug was a huge monsterous fiend that was nigh unstoppable to all challengers before we arrived

I can count on one hand the quest bosses that remotely felt like a boss, even with no CP, with no food, while standing on reds, not even following basic mechanics of the game.

The game sets up a big fight and a strong villain, and it fails to deliver in every way.

It is completely and utterly unreasonable, as well as plain stupid, to imply that the right way to get a challenge in the vast majority of this game’s content is to ignore everything the game has ever provided, and use none of the basic knowledge the TUTORIAL teaches you, then light attack everything to death.

That’s what you’re suggesting, to be crap at the game intentionally, and even then, the enemies still aren’t a threat. It’s ridiculous

It seems you doesn't know Sylvermynx - she had 2000+ ms ping with a bad connection up until now, so she had very little chance to block, dodge or bash. Your suggestion would mean she shouldn't play at all...

There is a recommended spec for a reason when you purchase digital games. If you hardware crashes every time you play because it’s under the recommended specs, that’s on you. If your connection is well under a playable standard, that’s also on you.

The devs should not design around 2k ping players. Same as if you play a multiplayer game, you accept you will face leaver penalties the same as anyone else if you consistently DC mid-match.

Aireal

Seriously.. people... RPG.. ROLE PLAYING GAME....

Your role might be the superhero that saves the day, the mage/ healer that saves the super hero.. The Tank that protects ... So you want that challenge.. you need to slay those villains...

My role? The Bard that sing's in the tavern, that tells the story of the Superhero as seen from far..far away ( and interviews over mead ).. Who sell's those Alchemy ingredients to your Healer.. She avoids all confrontations..

As my friend Rick always said.. their is NO right way to play the game...

Riding Club... Role playing Game.. cause everyone needs better equipment to go kill..errrr no.. to buy a better horse, saddle.. more XP to jump higher.. ( only all the kids get the same XP.. don't need the little girls crying )

Isn't the SIM's an RPG? The only thing dying is your pet if you forget to water/ feed it.

Not everyone plays and RPG for the same reason.. not even close.

I played DnD in the 80's as well. but our DM was all about smart, not brute force... then again.. Geeks, who got bullied by Jocks... I just thought they were fun. .. DnD was fun.. Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy.. confused the tar outa me!

Thing is.. you want harder? Fine.. I really could care less.. until it affect's me.. I like the OW the way it is.

Kolache

Ydrisselle wrote: »

It seems you doesn't know Sylvermynx - she had 2000+ ms ping with a bad connection up until now, so she had very little chance to block, dodge or bash. Your suggestion would mean she shouldn't play at all...

Respectfully, an online game should be designed around the expectation of minimum requirements met, including internet connection. I'm glad if it can provide some accommodations for people with extenuating circumstances, but those should be the exceptions and not the rules.

I've also seen people claim that these requests are disrespectful towards the elderly, disabled, and otherwise impaired. I'm sorry, but I don't believe this game was intentionally designed to be the safe space for the most casual of online gaming. Of course I could be wrong, but I think the current difficulty is more likely due to a combination of completely revamping the way the game works by removing VRs, adding CPs, removing caps, adding scaling, with a dash of periodic power creep. The game has changed. A lot.

I think it's simply time that the game corrects itself a bit and provides the adventurous experience that it set out to for as many people as possible at the same time. The good news is we don't need an "easy mode" for those players that want it--it's already here. We just need a "normal mode" for the other people.

This doesn't seem like asking for the impossible given that the whole game is basically already designed around scaling and instancing.

Sylvermynx

Jhalin wrote: »

Ydrisselle wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Chadak wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Why don't you remove all your CP's, and take your gear off if you want difficulty for the sake of difficulty?

People already have, and it’s still pointlessly easy

barney2525 wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

You are right. No one mentioned the rewards.

But no one ever mentions their Real ultimate goals either.

Must be really nice for people like you to pull absolutely BS out their arse to attack that argument, rather than the on-going actual discussion. You have NEVER gotten good rewards from quest content. NEVER. So this fixation and pretending peopel thinking overland content is too easy because they want better rewards is just inane. Stop. Just stop.

Nope

If you had paid any attention, you would have seen I have been addressing the issue.

The idea that the Main Focus of this or any other game of this type is to have the "wandering monsters" be the most dangerous and horribly hard for characters to kill is just plain ridiculous. The character needs to get from point A to point B to pursue the actual Mission (whatever it may be). Overland is simply Filler. It's Nuisance. It is DESIGNED to be minimal effort - especially for higher powered characters. To think otherwise makes no sense. It is NOT a Major part of the game.

So, if I see someone so adamant about Making it some Major part of the game, I start wondering Why. It's Not because "it's too easy". That would be something you complain about if you get to a world boss and it falls over in 3 hits.

That's Not what Overland is. Overland is Not Supposed to be hard, and it is functioning Exactly as it is supposed to. You tell me - WHY DOES ANYONE CARE THAT IS IS EASY TO GET FROM POINT A TO POINT B?


IMHO

I can run through everything just like I would with CP and gear on. There's virtually no chance of me dying against trash mobs, even the "bosses" of quests are not a challenge. When we talk about the game being too easy, this is the number one issue.

But you know some of us, actually want a little bit of a challenge, we want to die to trash mobs if we aggro too many, ESPECIALLY in the overworld. Some of us want the bosses of quests or delves to be actually challenging

From the OP. And many of us clarified our positions with not including PBs, Dolmen, WBs. Explaining that the penultimate boss of a quest chain should feel like a boss. Though I have mentioned delves several times not included in the 'overland', I thought he meant the delve bosses that quests had you do, rather than the rando you kill because it's sits in there.

It is NOT a Major part of the game.

It's a majority of the game. Most of the content is questing stuff that is overland and where that brings you. The content added each chapter and DLC, which continuously treats the whole world like it's an afterthought. That would have us suspend disbelief but tell us majordomo X is so powerful, and he dies in 2 hits.

Most of the time I quest I feel resentment that quest bits aren't instanced, that not only do I have to deal with extremely easy bosses, but there's a good chance some random person runs in and starts nuking them too. Now boss that I could kill in a few hits myself, instantly dies completely destroying any immersion in the story.

Maybe I'm older than you are, But Nobody complains this hard about something this insignificant without having Something else that they want to accomplish.

Could be. Maybe not. Or could be that people just are incapable of arguing a position as stated. How hard is it to understand that this game with every chapter and DLC release, brings for another story arc. One that can be smashed through solo, but generally have a bunch of other players smashing through with you, extremely easily.

I came to the forums because after doing Elsweyr completion I just felt cheated. Most of the story was good but I left it feeling like the experience was cheapened by how easy it was. This left me feeling bored and wondering if that aspect of the game was even worth paying more money for.

At least in GW2 the living season come free as long as you are logged in during a particular bit. ESO makes you pay for it and the only reason I feel like this chapter was worth it is because the Necromancer. But I began to question redoing all the content of my original main on the new necromancer was actually going to keep me occupied without feeling like it was so easy that the story completion would leave me feeling more bored than entertained.

This is why I came to the forums. And lo and behold, right there on the first page was this thread with other people expressing the exact same concerns I was feeling.

I don't need more rewards. I don't need anything else except not feeling bored to tears doing the story content which makes up a majority of this game, and is only bearable when the storytelling is superb, which isn't always the case.

Disagree.

It's Not a Majority of the game because IF you want you can simply avoid it - Completely.

You do not have to fight Anything if you don't Choose to.

It Can't be considered a ' Majority ' of the game if it can be simply ignored.

I could not even estimate the many many many characters I have seen running across my screen, being pursued by several mobs. It's not that the character could not stop and kill them. The player just has better things to do - like reaching their actual objective and participating in whatever that issue is.

Overland is Flavor.

Now you’re just outright lying

Questing is not avoidable in any way. You need it for Psijic. You need it for crafting area access. You need it to have access to many dailies. You need it for skill points. You need it for Soul Magic. You need it to experience a damn story

You’re not some old wisened Yoda, you’re just being a nuisance who clearly has no interest in actual debate, who believes all players are infantile creatures that would immediately throw out the whole game if a quest boss actually had a chance to kill them.

Then start removing points from all your passives, and use only one bar, and don't LA weave. Just keep going down the list until you've found the right level of "difficulty" for yourself, then play the rest of the game that way.

That's like suggesting if someone is too smart for a class they should take a crowbar to their head until they are brain damaged enough to where that class challenges them - instead of seeking out a more challenging class they could actually have fun learning in.

It's preposterous.

In the context of a game with pre defined parameters, that's what you need to do if that is the thrill you seek.

I don't find purposely gimping myself thrilling. I find it stupid. In any context.

Then you aren't interested in challenge.

Move along.

Challenge is key part of gameplay, but not the only part. Another essential part of any RPG is your build. You may go for full glass-cannon build in VMA for example with reward of higher scores but this will require times more skill then completing VMA as petsorc or WW. But in overland even if you are full glass cannon you still cannot die.. so if you remove your armor etc you will simply kill mobs longer, but they still can't kill you if you do basic actions like not standing in aoe and blocking/dodging heavy attacks. So now you will propose not to dodge aoes and heavy attacks? what's left of gameplay then? you don't have build, you can't use CP perks which unlock mechanics, you can't use active defense, you can't use heals.. so you just stay in front of mobs in aoe light attacking them and then you finally die and feel accomplishment - "I finally found challenge"?

I know.

The whole point of an RPG is to make your character more powerful by collecting gear and experience. This idea that you should remove all of that to try and make the game more fun is like saying you should get rid of the football to have fun on a football field. It defeats the whole purpose of the game itself - at which point there is really no point in playing it at all.

Um. Have to disagree. The whole point of an RPG is that I have fun playing it. And RP'ing it. Right now, with new faster 'net, I'm going to be able to do stuff I haven't been able to do before - like bar swapping.... And I'm going to fully enjoy that. But the bottom line for me is - I am having fun in this game.

When it stops being fun, I'll stop playing it. Making overland harder? Eh, nope thanks. I play games (especially TES) for the stories.

Now.... I'm on board for a toggle that gives people like you a DiD option. Go for it, ZOS. And when you die repeatedly.... well... remember you asked for it.

Hit dog barks.

I’d recommend actually reading the OP before posting comments unrelated to what’s being asked for. Also, if a tiny modicum of challenge would make a game unfun, then what you want is a graphic novel, not a game. There is no immersing yourself as hero in a world that poses no threat. No boss can kill you unless you quite literally stand in place and don’t attack with any weapon (which is given in the tutorials), no abilities (which are recommended by the level up advisor), no food (which you loot), no potions (which the game throws at you), no enchants (which are also thrown at you), you don’t block (which is taught in the tutorial), don’t bash (tutorial), and don’t dodge roll

We want actual quest bosses, we want something that gives a sense of accomplishment when we defeat it instead of feeling like we just stepped on a small bug because someone claimed that bug was a huge monsterous fiend that was nigh unstoppable to all challengers before we arrived

I can count on one hand the quest bosses that remotely felt like a boss, even with no CP, with no food, while standing on reds, not even following basic mechanics of the game.

The game sets up a big fight and a strong villain, and it fails to deliver in every way.

It is completely and utterly unreasonable, as well as plain stupid, to imply that the right way to get a challenge in the vast majority of this game’s content is to ignore everything the game has ever provided, and use none of the basic knowledge the TUTORIAL teaches you, then light attack everything to death.

That’s what you’re suggesting, to be crap at the game intentionally, and even then, the enemies still aren’t a threat. It’s ridiculous

It seems you doesn't know Sylvermynx - she had 2000+ ms ping with a bad connection up until now, so she had very little chance to block, dodge or bash. Your suggestion would mean she shouldn't play at all...

There is a recommended spec for a reason when you purchase digital games. If you hardware crashes every time you play because it’s under the recommended specs, that’s on you. If your connection is well under a playable standard, that’s also on you.

The devs should not design around 2k ping players. Same as if you play a multiplayer game, you accept you will face leaver penalties the same as anyone else if you consistently DC mid-match.

Eh, I never asked the devs to "design around" my ping. I dealt with it. Sure it's better now. But the thing is.... I could tell that even with optimal 'net, stuff was going to be hard for me to kill - because the combat system is.... strange. Seriously. It's still strange. A year on - and with better 'net.

Wifeaggro13

Aireal wrote: »

Seriously.. people... RPG.. ROLE PLAYING GAME....

Your role might be the superhero that saves the day, the mage/ healer that saves the super hero.. The Tank that protects ... So you want that challenge.. you need to slay those villains...

My role? The Bard that sing's in the tavern, that tells the story of the Superhero as seen from far..far away ( and interviews over mead ).. Who sell's those Alchemy ingredients to your Healer.. She avoids all confrontations..

As my friend Rick always said.. their is NO right way to play the game...

Riding Club... Role playing Game.. cause everyone needs better equipment to go kill..errrr no.. to buy a better horse, saddle.. more XP to jump higher.. ( only all the kids get the same XP.. don't need the little girls crying )

Isn't the SIM's an RPG? The only thing dying is your pet if you forget to water/ feed it.

Not everyone plays and RPG for the same reason.. not even close.

I played DnD in the 80's as well. but our DM was all about smart, not brute force... then again.. Geeks, who got bullied by Jocks... I just thought they were fun. .. DnD was fun.. Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy.. confused the tar outa me!

Thing is.. you want harder? Fine.. I really could care less.. until it affect's me.. I like the OW the way it is.

except there are no bards in eso lol

Sylvermynx

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Aireal wrote: »

Seriously.. people... RPG.. ROLE PLAYING GAME....

Your role might be the superhero that saves the day, the mage/ healer that saves the super hero.. The Tank that protects ... So you want that challenge.. you need to slay those villains...

My role? The Bard that sing's in the tavern, that tells the story of the Superhero as seen from far..far away ( and interviews over mead ).. Who sell's those Alchemy ingredients to your Healer.. She avoids all confrontations..

As my friend Rick always said.. their is NO right way to play the game...

Riding Club... Role playing Game.. cause everyone needs better equipment to go kill..errrr no.. to buy a better horse, saddle.. more XP to jump higher.. ( only all the kids get the same XP.. don't need the little girls crying )

Isn't the SIM's an RPG? The only thing dying is your pet if you forget to water/ feed it.

Not everyone plays and RPG for the same reason.. not even close.

I played DnD in the 80's as well. but our DM was all about smart, not brute force... then again.. Geeks, who got bullied by Jocks... I just thought they were fun. .. DnD was fun.. Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy.. confused the tar outa me!

Thing is.. you want harder? Fine.. I really could care less.. until it affect's me.. I like the OW the way it is.

except there are no bards in eso lol

Unfortunate but true.

Aireal

I was in close to SylerMynx's

Kolache wrote: »

Ydrisselle wrote: »

It seems you doesn't know Sylvermynx - she had 2000+ ms ping with a bad connection up until now, so she had very little chance to block, dodge or bash. Your suggestion would mean she shouldn't play at all...

Respectfully, an online game should be designed around the expectation of minimum requirements met, including internet connection. I'm glad if it can provide some accommodations for people with extenuating circumstances, but those should be the exceptions and not the rules.

I've also seen people claim that these requests are disrespectful towards the elderly, disabled, and otherwise impaired. I'm sorry, but I don't believe this game was intentionally designed to be the safe space for the most casual of online gaming. Of course I could be wrong, but I think the current difficulty is more likely due to a combination of completely revamping the way the game works by removing VRs, adding CPs, removing caps, adding scaling, with a dash of periodic power creep. The game has changed. A lot.

I think it's simply time that the game corrects itself a bit and provides the adventurous experience that it set out to for as many people as possible at the same time. The good news is we don't need an "easy mode" for those players that want it--it's already here. We just need a "normal mode" for the other people.

This doesn't seem like asking for the impossible given that the whole game is basically already designed around scaling and instancing.

It's not to much to ask..

I wasn't playing ESO when ZOS changed everything over.. made it easier.. But I presume their was a reason they made the game easier.. which I have read many people explain in this and other threads just like it.

Seem's at least a majority of people playing ( at that time at least ) thought some of the places were too hard.. too tough.. needed to be made easier. And ZOS lost money because a lot of people packed up and left.. YES I know their was other reason's as well... different thread.


people playing = $$$$.. people leaving equals loss of money. Too many people start leaving and state their reasons as the game is too easy and need's a choice of easy/ normal/ hard core modes, then maybe they might spend the time and money to add that in.

That is the bottom line.

I personally like challenges, if a game doesn't give me enough.. I find a way, but that's me. BUT not every character!

Wifeaggro13

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Ydrisselle wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Chadak wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Why don't you remove all your CP's, and take your gear off if you want difficulty for the sake of difficulty?

People already have, and it’s still pointlessly easy

barney2525 wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

You are right. No one mentioned the rewards.

But no one ever mentions their Real ultimate goals either.

Must be really nice for people like you to pull absolutely BS out their arse to attack that argument, rather than the on-going actual discussion. You have NEVER gotten good rewards from quest content. NEVER. So this fixation and pretending peopel thinking overland content is too easy because they want better rewards is just inane. Stop. Just stop.

Nope

If you had paid any attention, you would have seen I have been addressing the issue.

The idea that the Main Focus of this or any other game of this type is to have the "wandering monsters" be the most dangerous and horribly hard for characters to kill is just plain ridiculous. The character needs to get from point A to point B to pursue the actual Mission (whatever it may be). Overland is simply Filler. It's Nuisance. It is DESIGNED to be minimal effort - especially for higher powered characters. To think otherwise makes no sense. It is NOT a Major part of the game.

So, if I see someone so adamant about Making it some Major part of the game, I start wondering Why. It's Not because "it's too easy". That would be something you complain about if you get to a world boss and it falls over in 3 hits.

That's Not what Overland is. Overland is Not Supposed to be hard, and it is functioning Exactly as it is supposed to. You tell me - WHY DOES ANYONE CARE THAT IS IS EASY TO GET FROM POINT A TO POINT B?


IMHO

I can run through everything just like I would with CP and gear on. There's virtually no chance of me dying against trash mobs, even the "bosses" of quests are not a challenge. When we talk about the game being too easy, this is the number one issue.

But you know some of us, actually want a little bit of a challenge, we want to die to trash mobs if we aggro too many, ESPECIALLY in the overworld. Some of us want the bosses of quests or delves to be actually challenging

From the OP. And many of us clarified our positions with not including PBs, Dolmen, WBs. Explaining that the penultimate boss of a quest chain should feel like a boss. Though I have mentioned delves several times not included in the 'overland', I thought he meant the delve bosses that quests had you do, rather than the rando you kill because it's sits in there.

It is NOT a Major part of the game.

It's a majority of the game. Most of the content is questing stuff that is overland and where that brings you. The content added each chapter and DLC, which continuously treats the whole world like it's an afterthought. That would have us suspend disbelief but tell us majordomo X is so powerful, and he dies in 2 hits.

Most of the time I quest I feel resentment that quest bits aren't instanced, that not only do I have to deal with extremely easy bosses, but there's a good chance some random person runs in and starts nuking them too. Now boss that I could kill in a few hits myself, instantly dies completely destroying any immersion in the story.

Maybe I'm older than you are, But Nobody complains this hard about something this insignificant without having Something else that they want to accomplish.

Could be. Maybe not. Or could be that people just are incapable of arguing a position as stated. How hard is it to understand that this game with every chapter and DLC release, brings for another story arc. One that can be smashed through solo, but generally have a bunch of other players smashing through with you, extremely easily.

I came to the forums because after doing Elsweyr completion I just felt cheated. Most of the story was good but I left it feeling like the experience was cheapened by how easy it was. This left me feeling bored and wondering if that aspect of the game was even worth paying more money for.

At least in GW2 the living season come free as long as you are logged in during a particular bit. ESO makes you pay for it and the only reason I feel like this chapter was worth it is because the Necromancer. But I began to question redoing all the content of my original main on the new necromancer was actually going to keep me occupied without feeling like it was so easy that the story completion would leave me feeling more bored than entertained.

This is why I came to the forums. And lo and behold, right there on the first page was this thread with other people expressing the exact same concerns I was feeling.

I don't need more rewards. I don't need anything else except not feeling bored to tears doing the story content which makes up a majority of this game, and is only bearable when the storytelling is superb, which isn't always the case.

Disagree.

It's Not a Majority of the game because IF you want you can simply avoid it - Completely.

You do not have to fight Anything if you don't Choose to.

It Can't be considered a ' Majority ' of the game if it can be simply ignored.

I could not even estimate the many many many characters I have seen running across my screen, being pursued by several mobs. It's not that the character could not stop and kill them. The player just has better things to do - like reaching their actual objective and participating in whatever that issue is.

Overland is Flavor.

Now you’re just outright lying

Questing is not avoidable in any way. You need it for Psijic. You need it for crafting area access. You need it to have access to many dailies. You need it for skill points. You need it for Soul Magic. You need it to experience a damn story

You’re not some old wisened Yoda, you’re just being a nuisance who clearly has no interest in actual debate, who believes all players are infantile creatures that would immediately throw out the whole game if a quest boss actually had a chance to kill them.

Then start removing points from all your passives, and use only one bar, and don't LA weave. Just keep going down the list until you've found the right level of "difficulty" for yourself, then play the rest of the game that way.

That's like suggesting if someone is too smart for a class they should take a crowbar to their head until they are brain damaged enough to where that class challenges them - instead of seeking out a more challenging class they could actually have fun learning in.

It's preposterous.

In the context of a game with pre defined parameters, that's what you need to do if that is the thrill you seek.

I don't find purposely gimping myself thrilling. I find it stupid. In any context.

Then you aren't interested in challenge.

Move along.

Challenge is key part of gameplay, but not the only part. Another essential part of any RPG is your build. You may go for full glass-cannon build in VMA for example with reward of higher scores but this will require times more skill then completing VMA as petsorc or WW. But in overland even if you are full glass cannon you still cannot die.. so if you remove your armor etc you will simply kill mobs longer, but they still can't kill you if you do basic actions like not standing in aoe and blocking/dodging heavy attacks. So now you will propose not to dodge aoes and heavy attacks? what's left of gameplay then? you don't have build, you can't use CP perks which unlock mechanics, you can't use active defense, you can't use heals.. so you just stay in front of mobs in aoe light attacking them and then you finally die and feel accomplishment - "I finally found challenge"?

I know.

The whole point of an RPG is to make your character more powerful by collecting gear and experience. This idea that you should remove all of that to try and make the game more fun is like saying you should get rid of the football to have fun on a football field. It defeats the whole purpose of the game itself - at which point there is really no point in playing it at all.

Um. Have to disagree. The whole point of an RPG is that I have fun playing it. And RP'ing it. Right now, with new faster 'net, I'm going to be able to do stuff I haven't been able to do before - like bar swapping.... And I'm going to fully enjoy that. But the bottom line for me is - I am having fun in this game.

When it stops being fun, I'll stop playing it. Making overland harder? Eh, nope thanks. I play games (especially TES) for the stories.

Now.... I'm on board for a toggle that gives people like you a DiD option. Go for it, ZOS. And when you die repeatedly.... well... remember you asked for it.

Hit dog barks.

I’d recommend actually reading the OP before posting comments unrelated to what’s being asked for. Also, if a tiny modicum of challenge would make a game unfun, then what you want is a graphic novel, not a game. There is no immersing yourself as hero in a world that poses no threat. No boss can kill you unless you quite literally stand in place and don’t attack with any weapon (which is given in the tutorials), no abilities (which are recommended by the level up advisor), no food (which you loot), no potions (which the game throws at you), no enchants (which are also thrown at you), you don’t block (which is taught in the tutorial), don’t bash (tutorial), and don’t dodge roll

We want actual quest bosses, we want something that gives a sense of accomplishment when we defeat it instead of feeling like we just stepped on a small bug because someone claimed that bug was a huge monsterous fiend that was nigh unstoppable to all challengers before we arrived

I can count on one hand the quest bosses that remotely felt like a boss, even with no CP, with no food, while standing on reds, not even following basic mechanics of the game.

The game sets up a big fight and a strong villain, and it fails to deliver in every way.

It is completely and utterly unreasonable, as well as plain stupid, to imply that the right way to get a challenge in the vast majority of this game’s content is to ignore everything the game has ever provided, and use none of the basic knowledge the TUTORIAL teaches you, then light attack everything to death.

That’s what you’re suggesting, to be crap at the game intentionally, and even then, the enemies still aren’t a threat. It’s ridiculous

It seems you doesn't know Sylvermynx - she had 2000+ ms ping with a bad connection up until now, so she had very little chance to block, dodge or bash. Your suggestion would mean she shouldn't play at all...

There is a recommended spec for a reason when you purchase digital games. If you hardware crashes every time you play because it’s under the recommended specs, that’s on you. If your connection is well under a playable standard, that’s also on you.

The devs should not design around 2k ping players. Same as if you play a multiplayer game, you accept you will face leaver penalties the same as anyone else if you consistently DC mid-match.

Eh, I never asked the devs to "design around" my ping. I dealt with it. Sure it's better now. But the thing is.... I could tell that even with optimal 'net, stuff was going to be hard for me to kill - because the combat system is.... strange. Seriously. It's still strange. A year on - and with better 'net.

i do agree the combat system doe not lend itself well to a role based MMO. its far to twitchy with weaving and ani canceling. its less about group dynamic as it is about meta dps and how to achieve it in what is refered to as end game.trials become more about individual performance rather then a group dynamic. Wrobel was so focused on creating this competetive pve experience he failed to pay attention to any role but DPS. Its why tank and healers are so bleh and utility hybrids are non existent. i hope you dont take it as the community thinks you should adapt or die i think its more about it not having any diffculty increase as you progress through the game .

Aireal

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Aireal wrote: »

Seriously.. people... RPG.. ROLE PLAYING GAME....

Your role might be the superhero that saves the day, the mage/ healer that saves the super hero.. The Tank that protects ... So you want that challenge.. you need to slay those villains...

My role? The Bard that sing's in the tavern, that tells the story of the Superhero as seen from far..far away ( and interviews over mead ).. Who sell's those Alchemy ingredients to your Healer.. She avoids all confrontations..

As my friend Rick always said.. their is NO right way to play the game...

Riding Club... Role playing Game.. cause everyone needs better equipment to go kill..errrr no.. to buy a better horse, saddle.. more XP to jump higher.. ( only all the kids get the same XP.. don't need the little girls crying )

Isn't the SIM's an RPG? The only thing dying is your pet if you forget to water/ feed it.

Not everyone plays and RPG for the same reason.. not even close.

I played DnD in the 80's as well. but our DM was all about smart, not brute force... then again.. Geeks, who got bullied by Jocks... I just thought they were fun. .. DnD was fun.. Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy.. confused the tar outa me!

Thing is.. you want harder? Fine.. I really could care less.. until it affect's me.. I like the OW the way it is.

except there are no bards in eso lol

True.. only I've been serenaded by several Players... so obviously at one point, the ability to play the lute was available.

She could be a merchant.. I CAN buy and sell things.. collect herb's etc...

<snort> I played Skyrim on 360 for 3 yrs... I can RP with my imagination!

Sylvermynx

Well, really people - the bottom line is I'm not at all disagreeing with a toggle or optional setting so those of you who want a harder/tougher/near-death experience get to have it.

Truthfully, I like exploring and mutzing around. I'm not into having to kill my way through zones. I really wish games provided quests that were non-combat oriented, RP type options. The Khenarthi's Roost quest to find the killer of the Silvenar, and to get the Maormer out of their hair - that was PERFECT as far as I'm concerned. Quests like that are what I most appreciate.

Really.... I just like soloing my way around, finding all the areas of the game, picking up stuff, and talking to NPCs. Doesn't mean I don't want the rest of you to have what you want, at all.

Aireal

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Ydrisselle wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Chadak wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Why don't you remove all your CP's, and take your gear off if you want difficulty for the sake of difficulty?

People already have, and it’s still pointlessly easy

barney2525 wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

navystylz_ESO wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

You are right. No one mentioned the rewards.

But no one ever mentions their Real ultimate goals either.

Must be really nice for people like you to pull absolutely BS out their arse to attack that argument, rather than the on-going actual discussion. You have NEVER gotten good rewards from quest content. NEVER. So this fixation and pretending peopel thinking overland content is too easy because they want better rewards is just inane. Stop. Just stop.

Nope

If you had paid any attention, you would have seen I have been addressing the issue.

The idea that the Main Focus of this or any other game of this type is to have the "wandering monsters" be the most dangerous and horribly hard for characters to kill is just plain ridiculous. The character needs to get from point A to point B to pursue the actual Mission (whatever it may be). Overland is simply Filler. It's Nuisance. It is DESIGNED to be minimal effort - especially for higher powered characters. To think otherwise makes no sense. It is NOT a Major part of the game.

So, if I see someone so adamant about Making it some Major part of the game, I start wondering Why. It's Not because "it's too easy". That would be something you complain about if you get to a world boss and it falls over in 3 hits.

That's Not what Overland is. Overland is Not Supposed to be hard, and it is functioning Exactly as it is supposed to. You tell me - WHY DOES ANYONE CARE THAT IS IS EASY TO GET FROM POINT A TO POINT B?


IMHO

I can run through everything just like I would with CP and gear on. There's virtually no chance of me dying against trash mobs, even the "bosses" of quests are not a challenge. When we talk about the game being too easy, this is the number one issue.

But you know some of us, actually want a little bit of a challenge, we want to die to trash mobs if we aggro too many, ESPECIALLY in the overworld. Some of us want the bosses of quests or delves to be actually challenging

From the OP. And many of us clarified our positions with not including PBs, Dolmen, WBs. Explaining that the penultimate boss of a quest chain should feel like a boss. Though I have mentioned delves several times not included in the 'overland', I thought he meant the delve bosses that quests had you do, rather than the rando you kill because it's sits in there.

It is NOT a Major part of the game.

It's a majority of the game. Most of the content is questing stuff that is overland and where that brings you. The content added each chapter and DLC, which continuously treats the whole world like it's an afterthought. That would have us suspend disbelief but tell us majordomo X is so powerful, and he dies in 2 hits.

Most of the time I quest I feel resentment that quest bits aren't instanced, that not only do I have to deal with extremely easy bosses, but there's a good chance some random person runs in and starts nuking them too. Now boss that I could kill in a few hits myself, instantly dies completely destroying any immersion in the story.

Maybe I'm older than you are, But Nobody complains this hard about something this insignificant without having Something else that they want to accomplish.

Could be. Maybe not. Or could be that people just are incapable of arguing a position as stated. How hard is it to understand that this game with every chapter and DLC release, brings for another story arc. One that can be smashed through solo, but generally have a bunch of other players smashing through with you, extremely easily.

I came to the forums because after doing Elsweyr completion I just felt cheated. Most of the story was good but I left it feeling like the experience was cheapened by how easy it was. This left me feeling bored and wondering if that aspect of the game was even worth paying more money for.

At least in GW2 the living season come free as long as you are logged in during a particular bit. ESO makes you pay for it and the only reason I feel like this chapter was worth it is because the Necromancer. But I began to question redoing all the content of my original main on the new necromancer was actually going to keep me occupied without feeling like it was so easy that the story completion would leave me feeling more bored than entertained.

This is why I came to the forums. And lo and behold, right there on the first page was this thread with other people expressing the exact same concerns I was feeling.

I don't need more rewards. I don't need anything else except not feeling bored to tears doing the story content which makes up a majority of this game, and is only bearable when the storytelling is superb, which isn't always the case.

Disagree.

It's Not a Majority of the game because IF you want you can simply avoid it - Completely.

You do not have to fight Anything if you don't Choose to.

It Can't be considered a ' Majority ' of the game if it can be simply ignored.

I could not even estimate the many many many characters I have seen running across my screen, being pursued by several mobs. It's not that the character could not stop and kill them. The player just has better things to do - like reaching their actual objective and participating in whatever that issue is.

Overland is Flavor.

Now you’re just outright lying

Questing is not avoidable in any way. You need it for Psijic. You need it for crafting area access. You need it to have access to many dailies. You need it for skill points. You need it for Soul Magic. You need it to experience a damn story

You’re not some old wisened Yoda, you’re just being a nuisance who clearly has no interest in actual debate, who believes all players are infantile creatures that would immediately throw out the whole game if a quest boss actually had a chance to kill them.

Then start removing points from all your passives, and use only one bar, and don't LA weave. Just keep going down the list until you've found the right level of "difficulty" for yourself, then play the rest of the game that way.

That's like suggesting if someone is too smart for a class they should take a crowbar to their head until they are brain damaged enough to where that class challenges them - instead of seeking out a more challenging class they could actually have fun learning in.

It's preposterous.

In the context of a game with pre defined parameters, that's what you need to do if that is the thrill you seek.

I don't find purposely gimping myself thrilling. I find it stupid. In any context.

Then you aren't interested in challenge.

Move along.

Challenge is key part of gameplay, but not the only part. Another essential part of any RPG is your build. You may go for full glass-cannon build in VMA for example with reward of higher scores but this will require times more skill then completing VMA as petsorc or WW. But in overland even if you are full glass cannon you still cannot die.. so if you remove your armor etc you will simply kill mobs longer, but they still can't kill you if you do basic actions like not standing in aoe and blocking/dodging heavy attacks. So now you will propose not to dodge aoes and heavy attacks? what's left of gameplay then? you don't have build, you can't use CP perks which unlock mechanics, you can't use active defense, you can't use heals.. so you just stay in front of mobs in aoe light attacking them and then you finally die and feel accomplishment - "I finally found challenge"?

I know.

The whole point of an RPG is to make your character more powerful by collecting gear and experience. This idea that you should remove all of that to try and make the game more fun is like saying you should get rid of the football to have fun on a football field. It defeats the whole purpose of the game itself - at which point there is really no point in playing it at all.

Um. Have to disagree. The whole point of an RPG is that I have fun playing it. And RP'ing it. Right now, with new faster 'net, I'm going to be able to do stuff I haven't been able to do before - like bar swapping.... And I'm going to fully enjoy that. But the bottom line for me is - I am having fun in this game.

When it stops being fun, I'll stop playing it. Making overland harder? Eh, nope thanks. I play games (especially TES) for the stories.

Now.... I'm on board for a toggle that gives people like you a DiD option. Go for it, ZOS. And when you die repeatedly.... well... remember you asked for it.

Hit dog barks.

I’d recommend actually reading the OP before posting comments unrelated to what’s being asked for. Also, if a tiny modicum of challenge would make a game unfun, then what you want is a graphic novel, not a game. There is no immersing yourself as hero in a world that poses no threat. No boss can kill you unless you quite literally stand in place and don’t attack with any weapon (which is given in the tutorials), no abilities (which are recommended by the level up advisor), no food (which you loot), no potions (which the game throws at you), no enchants (which are also thrown at you), you don’t block (which is taught in the tutorial), don’t bash (tutorial), and don’t dodge roll

We want actual quest bosses, we want something that gives a sense of accomplishment when we defeat it instead of feeling like we just stepped on a small bug because someone claimed that bug was a huge monsterous fiend that was nigh unstoppable to all challengers before we arrived

I can count on one hand the quest bosses that remotely felt like a boss, even with no CP, with no food, while standing on reds, not even following basic mechanics of the game.

The game sets up a big fight and a strong villain, and it fails to deliver in every way.

It is completely and utterly unreasonable, as well as plain stupid, to imply that the right way to get a challenge in the vast majority of this game’s content is to ignore everything the game has ever provided, and use none of the basic knowledge the TUTORIAL teaches you, then light attack everything to death.

That’s what you’re suggesting, to be crap at the game intentionally, and even then, the enemies still aren’t a threat. It’s ridiculous

It seems you doesn't know Sylvermynx - she had 2000+ ms ping with a bad connection up until now, so she had very little chance to block, dodge or bash. Your suggestion would mean she shouldn't play at all...

There is a recommended spec for a reason when you purchase digital games. If you hardware crashes every time you play because it’s under the recommended specs, that’s on you. If your connection is well under a playable standard, that’s also on you.

The devs should not design around 2k ping players. Same as if you play a multiplayer game, you accept you will face leaver penalties the same as anyone else if you consistently DC mid-match.

Eh, I never asked the devs to "design around" my ping. I dealt with it. Sure it's better now. But the thing is.... I could tell that even with optimal 'net, stuff was going to be hard for me to kill - because the combat system is.... strange. Seriously. It's still strange. A year on - and with better 'net.

i do agree the combat system doe not lend itself well to a role based MMO. its far to twitchy with weaving and ani canceling. its less about group dynamic as it is about meta dps and how to achieve it in what is refered to as end game. i hope you dont take it as the community thinks you should adapt or die i think its more about it not having any diffculty increase as you progress through the game .

Is it though? less about group dynamic or perhaps too many people are too concerned with "end game".. rewards.

What if I wanted to form a group whose main purpose is to collect and read every book in ESO? Find, read, discuss and move on to finding the next book. The dynamic of that group would be more about common interest and less about "power"..

Seriously , I know that wouldn't happen.. just saying. That's a Role Playing Group.. where everyone is looking to the same story.... not the end of the game.. the journey.

Then again... to me, that is what life is all about.. the journey.. cause we all end life the same way.

Kolache

Aireal wrote: »

I was in close to SylerMynx's

Kolache wrote: »

Ydrisselle wrote: »

It seems you doesn't know Sylvermynx - she had 2000+ ms ping with a bad connection up until now, so she had very little chance to block, dodge or bash. Your suggestion would mean she shouldn't play at all...

Respectfully, an online game should be designed around the expectation of minimum requirements met, including internet connection. I'm glad if it can provide some accommodations for people with extenuating circumstances, but those should be the exceptions and not the rules.

I've also seen people claim that these requests are disrespectful towards the elderly, disabled, and otherwise impaired. I'm sorry, but I don't believe this game was intentionally designed to be the safe space for the most casual of online gaming. Of course I could be wrong, but I think the current difficulty is more likely due to a combination of completely revamping the way the game works by removing VRs, adding CPs, removing caps, adding scaling, with a dash of periodic power creep. The game has changed. A lot.

I think it's simply time that the game corrects itself a bit and provides the adventurous experience that it set out to for as many people as possible at the same time. The good news is we don't need an "easy mode" for those players that want it--it's already here. We just need a "normal mode" for the other people.

This doesn't seem like asking for the impossible given that the whole game is basically already designed around scaling and instancing.

It's not to much to ask..

I wasn't playing ESO when ZOS changed everything over.. made it easier.. But I presume their was a reason they made the game easier.. which I have read many people explain in this and other threads just like it.

Seem's at least a majority of people playing ( at that time at least ) thought some of the places were too hard.. too tough.. needed to be made easier. And ZOS lost money because a lot of people packed up and left.. YES I know their was other reason's as well... different thread.


people playing = $$$$.. people leaving equals loss of money. Too many people start leaving and state their reasons as the game is too easy and need's a choice of easy/ normal/ hard core modes, then maybe they might spend the time and money to add that in.

That is the bottom line.

I personally like challenges, if a game doesn't give me enough.. I find a way, but that's me. BUT not every character!

I'm not asking ZOS to slit their own throats for my sake. I'm not as good at fortune-telling as some of the other people here--I can only say what I want to spend my money on personally (though I wish others would do the same).

I'm just not ready to assume that anyone who preaches that Craglorn's difficulty is the reason ESO tanked before has any idea what they're talking about let alone heed their prophecy of doom. First, because I also played from release and Craglorn wouldn't make my list of "top ways ESO was broken before 1T". Second, because even if I did believe that I wouldn't imagine that any tweaking to difficulty, especially optionally, would yield the same result. That seems awfully narrow-minded to me.

Fata1moose

Overland could definitely use a veteran mode. It would at least be nice if you could actually do a rotation without everything dying to your proc after one hit. At the very least buffing bosses in quests and delves would be nice. But a veteran overworld is a nice option because it's a toggle if you like it the way it is now.

Aireal

Kolache wrote: »

Aireal wrote: »

I was in close to SylerMynx's

Kolache wrote: »

Ydrisselle wrote: »

It seems you doesn't know Sylvermynx - she had 2000+ ms ping with a bad connection up until now, so she had very little chance to block, dodge or bash. Your suggestion would mean she shouldn't play at all...

Respectfully, an online game should be designed around the expectation of minimum requirements met, including internet connection. I'm glad if it can provide some accommodations for people with extenuating circumstances, but those should be the exceptions and not the rules.

I've also seen people claim that these requests are disrespectful towards the elderly, disabled, and otherwise impaired. I'm sorry, but I don't believe this game was intentionally designed to be the safe space for the most casual of online gaming. Of course I could be wrong, but I think the current difficulty is more likely due to a combination of completely revamping the way the game works by removing VRs, adding CPs, removing caps, adding scaling, with a dash of periodic power creep. The game has changed. A lot.

I think it's simply time that the game corrects itself a bit and provides the adventurous experience that it set out to for as many people as possible at the same time. The good news is we don't need an "easy mode" for those players that want it--it's already here. We just need a "normal mode" for the other people.

This doesn't seem like asking for the impossible given that the whole game is basically already designed around scaling and instancing.

It's not to much to ask..

I wasn't playing ESO when ZOS changed everything over.. made it easier.. But I presume their was a reason they made the game easier.. which I have read many people explain in this and other threads just like it.

Seem's at least a majority of people playing ( at that time at least ) thought some of the places were too hard.. too tough.. needed to be made easier. And ZOS lost money because a lot of people packed up and left.. YES I know their was other reason's as well... different thread.


people playing = $$$$.. people leaving equals loss of money. Too many people start leaving and state their reasons as the game is too easy and need's a choice of easy/ normal/ hard core modes, then maybe they might spend the time and money to add that in.

That is the bottom line.

I personally like challenges, if a game doesn't give me enough.. I find a way, but that's me. BUT not every character!

I'm not asking ZOS to slit their own throats for my sake. I'm not as good at fortune-telling as some of the other people here--I can only say what I want to spend my money on personally (though I wish others would do the same).

I'm just not ready to assume that anyone who preaches that Craglorn's difficulty is the reason ESO tanked before has any idea what they're talking about let alone heed their prophecy of doom. First, because I also played from release and Craglorn wouldn't make my list of "top ways ESO was broken before 1T". Second, because even if I did believe that I wouldn't imagine that any tweaking to difficulty, especially optionally, would yield the same result. That seems awfully narrow-minded to me.

People are narrow-minded..

I wasn't just saying Craglorn.. but something about the difficulty at the time made ZOS change it.. revamp the game.. it couldn't have been how happy people were.. how many people got friends to join. As I said, I wasn't here.. but they felt something was broken and <wince> 'fixed it'.. ( yes I know there were other problems as well.. as I said, different thread)

I DO think they need to figure out some way to make 'end game' characters fun to explore with.. a challenge to cross the world. As long as I get the choice..per character.. to have it hard or easy.

I've never said I didn't think there should not be an option... just that there should not be a general bump up in difficulty that affects, everyone.. willy-nilly.

Linaleah

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

^ i specially dodged several times to toggle that comment of yours. If you deny dodging you just prove how pointless your arguments are since dodging is basic mechanic of any action game.
But ok, no dodge, and i even increased my dps on 20% and received way less hits, since I became more experienced in fighting naked

Damage done


Damage received

so instead of dodging around giant, you just ran around him. the point. still. stands. you know how to move, you know how to play. what is it that you want exactly? one shots from the giant? so that people who don't have your reflexes have no chance at all? where is the fun in THAT? you know for people who are not you?

the reality of the challenging games is that it just takes a moment to figure out the flow of the combat and timing and get used to it and then execute it. and harder games don't leave you much margin for error. kinda like DLC veteran dungeons. which most ESO people oh so love /sarcasm. the other truth is that most people NEED that margin for error. without it the game becomes impossible for them.

so what can ZoS do... add one shots? increase mob health? speed up their attacks so that dodging is harder and requires more precise timing? eventually, people like you get used to it and it stops being challenging again, and meanwhile everyone else is left in a dust.

Kolache

Aireal wrote: »

.. but something about the difficulty at the time made ZOS change it.. revamp the game..

Picture the size of the world without DLCs. Now picture the size of the world with only your faction's areas (like 1/4th of the map or so?)

Now imagine that you have virtually no choice where to go for level progression.. that small alliance-only world and each zone in it is your path to level cap, sequentially.

Now imagine that you don't have over a dozen gear sets you'd like to play with.. there are like 1 or 2 with "meh" bonuses--basically your endgame incentive, progression-wise.

Now imagine running out of quests to hit level cap and having to AoE grind mobs to fully level. Oh and the final levels take much more experience. Lots of grinding even if you do the sequential quests to unlock the other faction's areas.

Now imagine finally getting max level, finally getting your set built, then a couple months later the level cap increases and it's rinse/repeat starting with more of the AoE grinding. They just went to CP200 gear and all your stuff is CP160. Every few months.

That was the small world of ESO before 1T. 1T opened the whole map to everyone from level 1. Any faction, any zone, anywhere you want, whenever you want. What else? You can level in every zone just doing quests or whatever map icons. There are sets to collect in every zone and they're all relevant with every expansion because the gear cap never increases. And most of these new sets are much more interesting.

You went from a game where you had very few options to develop your character to a game where you can do whatever you want. To accomplish that they had to get rid of some things (like Veteran Ranks), which affected difficulty, and add scaling, which also affected difficulty. You couldn't go anywhere you wanted at any time like Skyrim if they didn't add scaling. To add some of the lost progression model with periodic level cap increases they added Champion Points which also affected difficulty.

So they drastically re-tuned difficulty. They had to for all that they were changing--there wasn't an option to keep it the same difficulty while adding/removing parts of the equation. I'm sure there were some people that found the game too hard and were happy after 1T in that regard, but honestly I don't believe that was the main purpose of reworking the game. If that was the case they could have simply made the game easier without reworking everything else--I doubt that would have had any change on population but that's just my speculation.

If all the big changes were really about Craglorn's difficulty they sure took the long road.

Kolache

Linaleah wrote: »

the reality of the challenging games is that it just takes a moment to figure out the flow of the combat and timing and get used to it and then execute it. and harder games don't leave you much margin for error. kinda like DLC veteran dungeons. which most ESO people oh so love /sarcasm. the other truth is that most people NEED that margin for error. without it the game becomes impossible for them.

Everyone makes difficulty tuning sound so binary... it either has to be easy enough for the lowest common denominator or it has to be too difficult for the majority of the players? Personally, I think most of the game should live in the space between learning how combat works and small margins for error.

I don't think we should expect most players to ever get to vet DLC dungeon difficulty (or want to). I don't think that means expecting everyone else to never grasp combat 101.

Linaleah

Kolache wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

the reality of the challenging games is that it just takes a moment to figure out the flow of the combat and timing and get used to it and then execute it. and harder games don't leave you much margin for error. kinda like DLC veteran dungeons. which most ESO people oh so love /sarcasm. the other truth is that most people NEED that margin for error. without it the game becomes impossible for them.

Everyone makes difficulty tuning sound so binary... it either has to be easy enough for the lowest common denominator or it has to be too difficult for the majority of the players? Personally, I think most of the game should live in the space between learning how combat works and small margins for error.

I don't think we should expect most players to ever get to vet DLC dungeon difficulty (or want to). I don't think that means expecting everyone else to never grasp combat 101.

its not the understanding. its the execution of said understanding. and it is. that. binary. you either have someone who CAN execute and execute quickly and for them, the moment they learn - it stops being challenging. or you have people who have trouble with execution and need that margin for error, for the fights to be forgiving. the fact that these fights are so forgiving is quite literally the main part of "its too easy" complaint

Aireal

Believe it or not, I do understand just how small the world was.. I had looked into it...and decided that for me ( using my phone's hotspot for internet) the exploration was not worth the money, plus I knew I would not be able to do group anything.. and it didn't appear that my type of solo'ing would really work.

Even though the model for level scaling is 'cheap' and pretty easy ( comparatively ) to set up... there are many other ways they could have went.

Why not keep the Zones and zone difficulties.. and just do away with the Alliances ( PvE not PvP ) set each up so that yes you can get to it, but if your not lvl'd enough ( with good enough skill, gear, spells pots etc ) ... you die.

Yes that would still tick off some people.. I might just have been one of them.. I like the open world.

I DO think the lvl scaling stinks.. because it doesn't take into account min/maxed gear in the OW.

I wasn't playing then.. and I didn't keep up with the news. I probably am wrong in my thinking, I just can't see why opening the world means making it too easy for one group or too hard for another. Then again, I'm a retail manager, I could sell you the game and all it's good and bad points ( yes, I tell people the good and bad of the products we have... repeat customers ).. I have no clue on code or even the rough points of programming.

Aireal

Linaleah wrote: »

Kolache wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

the reality of the challenging games is that it just takes a moment to figure out the flow of the combat and timing and get used to it and then execute it. and harder games don't leave you much margin for error. kinda like DLC veteran dungeons. which most ESO people oh so love /sarcasm. the other truth is that most people NEED that margin for error. without it the game becomes impossible for them.

Everyone makes difficulty tuning sound so binary... it either has to be easy enough for the lowest common denominator or it has to be too difficult for the majority of the players? Personally, I think most of the game should live in the space between learning how combat works and small margins for error.

I don't think we should expect most players to ever get to vet DLC dungeon difficulty (or want to). I don't think that means expecting everyone else to never grasp combat 101.

its not the understanding. its the execution of said understanding. and it is. that. binary. you either have someone who CAN execute and execute quickly and for them, the moment they learn - it stops being challenging. or you have people who have trouble with execution and need that margin for error, for the fights to be forgiving. the fact that these fights are so forgiving is quite literally the main part of "its too easy" complaint

Umm no.. So by that your saying that the moment that you get to the top of Denali, Mountain climbing is no longer a challenge? What about Everest?? Mt Hood... Each climb is different, has its own nuances, dangers.

So I can play a S & B Stam.. and take little damage cause the other dude's sword only hit's my shield.. does that mean I know how to commit the perfect assassination with a dagger? Pickpocket 100 people with no bounty?

OH.. just fighting right? for challenge... Use a bow and make perfect long distance shots ( not multiple, one at a time ).. Be a Sorc with no pet and not ever die...

Challenge comes in all shapes and sizes.. and is limited to what people think of as a challenge. What some people call a ridicules gimp I call fun as Hades.. and a challenge worth doing.

So your LvL 1-50 char can run around virtually naked with no weapons and never die.. Soooo what's after lvl 50?

I can understand people thinking the OW is to easy, because they have skill.. and 310CP with the gear and buff's to go with it.. Ever thought of starting another character and not min/maxing it? Does everything have to be done on one character?

I guess I have a different idea of Role Playing.. cause I've never cared about rewards, how high a lvl my character can get to.. how hard the fight is... what I care about.. their story.

JMO...

Kolache

Linaleah wrote: »

Kolache wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

the reality of the challenging games is that it just takes a moment to figure out the flow of the combat and timing and get used to it and then execute it. and harder games don't leave you much margin for error. kinda like DLC veteran dungeons. which most ESO people oh so love /sarcasm. the other truth is that most people NEED that margin for error. without it the game becomes impossible for them.

Everyone makes difficulty tuning sound so binary... it either has to be easy enough for the lowest common denominator or it has to be too difficult for the majority of the players? Personally, I think most of the game should live in the space between learning how combat works and small margins for error.

I don't think we should expect most players to ever get to vet DLC dungeon difficulty (or want to). I don't think that means expecting everyone else to never grasp combat 101.

its not the understanding. its the execution of said understanding. and it is. that. binary. you either have someone who CAN execute and execute quickly and for them, the moment they learn - it stops being challenging. or you have people who have trouble with execution and need that margin for error, for the fights to be forgiving. the fact that these fights are so forgiving is quite literally the main part of "its too easy" complaint

Difficulty in an ARPG (or whatever you want to call it) like this doesn't just come down to reaction times. For example, at what level do you think a player should learn when to eat food or drink a potion? At some level, should the difficulty should be tuned assuming that the character has eaten food and is carrying a potion? If so, how long do you think a new player should take to figure this out (assuming proper tutorials)... if not, what exactly is the problem with expecting people to use consumables in ESO if they need help?

Linaleah

Aireal wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Kolache wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

the reality of the challenging games is that it just takes a moment to figure out the flow of the combat and timing and get used to it and then execute it. and harder games don't leave you much margin for error. kinda like DLC veteran dungeons. which most ESO people oh so love /sarcasm. the other truth is that most people NEED that margin for error. without it the game becomes impossible for them.

Everyone makes difficulty tuning sound so binary... it either has to be easy enough for the lowest common denominator or it has to be too difficult for the majority of the players? Personally, I think most of the game should live in the space between learning how combat works and small margins for error.

I don't think we should expect most players to ever get to vet DLC dungeon difficulty (or want to). I don't think that means expecting everyone else to never grasp combat 101.

its not the understanding. its the execution of said understanding. and it is. that. binary. you either have someone who CAN execute and execute quickly and for them, the moment they learn - it stops being challenging. or you have people who have trouble with execution and need that margin for error, for the fights to be forgiving. the fact that these fights are so forgiving is quite literally the main part of "its too easy" complaint

Umm no.. So by that your saying that the moment that you get to the top of Denali, Mountain climbing is no longer a challenge? What about Everest?? Mt Hood... Each climb is different, has its own nuances, dangers.

So I can play a S & B Stam.. and take little damage cause the other dude's sword only hit's my shield.. does that mean I know how to commit the perfect assassination with a dagger? Pickpocket 100 people with no bounty?

OH.. just fighting right? for challenge... Use a bow and make perfect long distance shots ( not multiple, one at a time ).. Be a Sorc with no pet and not ever die...

Challenge comes in all shapes and sizes.. and is limited to what people think of as a challenge. What some people call a ridicules gimp I call fun as Hades.. and a challenge worth doing.

So your LvL 1-50 char can run around virtually naked with no weapons and never die.. Soooo what's after lvl 50?

I can understand people thinking the OW is to easy, because they have skill.. and 310CP with the gear and buff's to go with it.. Ever thought of starting another character and not min/maxing it? Does everything have to be done on one character?

I guess I have a different idea of Role Playing.. cause I've never cared about rewards, how high a lvl my character can get to.. how hard the fight is... what I care about.. their story.

JMO...

climbing is actualy a small hobby of mine. I go to a local climbing gym mostly. and here is the thing... you go there often enough... more often then they reset the wall to create different routes and you eventually hit the wall figuratively speaking. either routes are no longer challenging becasue you know exactly which handholds to use in which order, cause you have learned them at this point... or they are too difficult because you don't have the strength, or flexibility, or both. there is no in between, until they add new routes and even then, it only takes a few climbs to learn them and they become easy, relatively speaking - again.

and there are some climbs, especially real life climbs that will always be challenging becasue even once you memorize them - they still require great deal of precision, flexibility and strength. no matter how well you know the routes. but those climbs? are also inaccessible to hobbyist like me.

which... is exactly the point I've been making.

now, to keep going with climbing analogy. if you are already strong and experienced, you may go to a climbing gym and NONE of the routes are particularly difficult for you, because experience allows you to learn faster, compensate with strength, etc. and then there are people who are just starting out and even the easiest route cam be a challenge for them, becasue they are new and still building up their strength. so in that - everyone has a different STARTING point when it comes to challenge. but.... once you learn a route and/or get stronger? it still comes down to that dreaded binary. you either CAN do it. or you cannot.

people here who complain about things being too easy? they are that experienced climber who loses all sense of challenge once they learn the route (or mechanics) unless the route is so difficult as to allow little to no margin for error. aka DLC veteran dungeons. which so many people have been BEGGING to be separated from general random queue, because they are too long and too hard.

Linaleah

Kolache wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Kolache wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

the reality of the challenging games is that it just takes a moment to figure out the flow of the combat and timing and get used to it and then execute it. and harder games don't leave you much margin for error. kinda like DLC veteran dungeons. which most ESO people oh so love /sarcasm. the other truth is that most people NEED that margin for error. without it the game becomes impossible for them.

Everyone makes difficulty tuning sound so binary... it either has to be easy enough for the lowest common denominator or it has to be too difficult for the majority of the players? Personally, I think most of the game should live in the space between learning how combat works and small margins for error.

I don't think we should expect most players to ever get to vet DLC dungeon difficulty (or want to). I don't think that means expecting everyone else to never grasp combat 101.

its not the understanding. its the execution of said understanding. and it is. that. binary. you either have someone who CAN execute and execute quickly and for them, the moment they learn - it stops being challenging. or you have people who have trouble with execution and need that margin for error, for the fights to be forgiving. the fact that these fights are so forgiving is quite literally the main part of "its too easy" complaint

Difficulty in an ARPG (or whatever you want to call it) like this doesn't just come down to reaction times. For example, at what level do you think a player should learn when to eat food or drink a potion? At some level, should the difficulty should be tuned assuming that the character has eaten food and is carrying a potion? If so, how long do you think a new player should take to figure this out (assuming proper tutorials)... if not, what exactly is the problem with expecting people to use consumables in ESO if they need help?

and how do you propose to tune that? enforce eating food or drinks that have health component? not all of them do. enforce enchanting for health? we already get potions as rewards, but not a ton of them, so are we enforcing crafting or buying those potions now? are we going to start enforcing minimum health now? a knowledgeable player just gets more health and all the challenge is gone for them. just. like. that.

again.

meanwhile someone who doesn't have a crafter available to get those potions/food going - are stuck.

Nova Sky

PFFT. I remember playing ESO at the PC/Mac launch, and overland content way way more difficult back then — and even more so once you finished the story in one faction and entered the veteran zones on the other factions (this is pre-Tamriel One).

I also remember ladies and gents complaining then about difficulty. If ZoS brings that level of difficulty back, it's likely going to lose a chunk of its player base. So it'd be up to the remaining — "I want it tough!" — player base to pay ZoS's bills. Methinks the "Remainers" wouldn't be numerous enough to do so.

Then there'd be no ESO for anyone. Bottom line? When making requests, it's critical to take into account the financial impact of game changes, and ways to mitigate it.