The problem with faction lock for the veteran PvP players
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GloryClass RepresentativeIf anything, this is clearly just making more players bitter about the state of PvP and will result in more perceived griefing...
The "known faction hopper" generally play EP, wouldn't they still be able to do this anyway?mDK will rise again.
Rebuild Necromancer pet AI.
@Glorious since I have too many characters to list
Ádamant
Strongly against Faction Lock0 -
Miriel✭✭✭✭
Or you could blame the *** poor performance and ignoring PVP for years that the players that formerly filled those campaigns left for other games.
alot of people also left couse faction hopping, im not saying its a great solotion to lock campaigns, all i know is that what we have isnt workingEdited by Miriel on May 13, 2019 6:54PM0 -
bulbousb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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Are you seriously suggesting they should base their server population decisions based on population during off-peak hours?ellahellabella wrote: »People keep saying "Go to the non locked server" and all of us outside of NA Prime have to keep repeating ourselves.
There isn't a large enough population outside of NA primetime to spread over 2 seperate servers
Lethal zergling1 -
Miriel✭✭✭✭If anything, this is clearly just making more players bitter about the state of PvP and will result in more perceived griefing...
The "known faction hopper" generally play EP, wouldn't they still be able to do this anyway?
Not as easilly, they will have to change campaigns at end of them, every 30 days... or grind up a entire new account, get hundreds of cps, find all those sets etc,get all skill popints, unless they go and buy a account, wich would then jepordice their account etc...
ANd have all their friends willing to do this, in a ageing MMO... its alot of work, i honestly dont see it, unless for the most die hard trolololoEdited by Miriel on May 13, 2019 6:59PM2 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
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If anyone one can see the statisics and when people change characters and have been swtiching faction... its them... so yea, i wouldent say thats nothing
After reading their changes to Incap on PTS 5.0.3, all assumptions that ESO know what they are doing should be thrown out the window.
Even if they did have the numbers right in front of them, I didn;t fill out a form explaining why I changed characters, so there is nothing to stop them from being just as biased in interpreting those numbers as those people who assume every switch is motivated by AP boosting, winning the campaign, or because I can only possibly be a troll on certain factions, but not others.6 -
Miriel✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »
After reading their changes to Incap on PTS 5.0.3, all assumptions that ESO know what they are doing should be thrown out the window.
Even if they did have the numbers right in front of them, I didn;t fill out a form explaining why I changed characters, so there is nothing to stop them from being just as biased in interpreting those numbers as those people who assume every switch is motivated by AP boosting, winning the campaign, or because I can only possibly be a troll on certain factions, but not others.
Yea but they still have made the game you play, and probably have for how many years ?... they still have far more numbers then i or you or any other arm chair game designer in these forums, im fairly sure none of u have made any AAA MMOs like ESO, so yea ?
The change as ar as i know is purely based on, since alot of people faction hopped, dont blame me or ESO, blame the people that faction hopped, and you will still be able to change faction at the end of every camapign... Faction hoppers is the sole reason why people cant have nice things...Edited by Miriel on May 13, 2019 7:16PM1 -
NBrookus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭alot of people also left couse faction hopping, im not saying its a great solotion to lock campaigns, all i know is that what we have isnt working
Honestly I seriously doubt that. They may have left because they believed faction swapping made the campaign un-competitive, but the reality is that if you have come to ESO for competitive PVP, you are in the wrong place.
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GloryClass Representative
Not as easilly, they will have to change campaigns at end of them, every 30 days... or grind up a entire new account, get hundreds of cps, find all those sets etc,get all skill popints, unless they go and buy a account, wich would then jepordice their account etc...
ANd have all their friends willing to do this, in a ageing MMO... its alot of work, i honestly dont see it, unless for the most die hard trolololo
Sorry to burst your bubble:- It's both wildly easy and cheap to create a second account and get it to level 10. From there, it would be equally as easy to 1) buy oils/whatever; 2) send them to your alt account; 3) use those to do what people are complaining about. You literally only have to be level 10 to do things like this (see the level 30 NBs chaining people off bridges)
- People are being toxic towards faction swappers (for years). When someone on EP is toxic towards a person who plays EP and DC, these faction locks will either result in a) that multi-faction player to go DC, thus weakening the EP claim that they're so driven to accomplishing; or b) that multi-faction player goes to EP, remembers the toxic faction loyalist, and encounters disincentives to help said EP loyalist, thus weakening EP claims.
This is already seen: in this thread loyalists are calling out multi-faction players for refusing to help them achieve their faction goals. Why would these players want to help someone who is clearly harboring animosity towards them?mDK will rise again.
Rebuild Necromancer pet AI.
@Glorious since I have too many characters to list
Ádamant
Strongly against Faction Lock4 -
Miriel✭✭✭✭
Sorry to burst your bubble:- It's both wildly easy and cheap to create a second account and get it to level 10. From there, it would be equally as easy to 1) buy oils/whatever; 2) send them to your alt account; 3) use those to do what people are complaining about. You literally only have to be level 10 to do things like this (see the level 30 NBs chaining people off bridges)
- People are being toxic towards faction swappers (for years). When someone on EP is toxic towards a person who plays EP and DC, these faction locks will either result in a) that multi-faction player to go DC, thus weakening the EP claim that they're so driven to accomplishing; or b) that multi-faction player goes to EP, remembers the toxic faction loyalist, and encounters disincentives to help said EP loyalist, thus weakening EP claims.
This is already seen: in this thread loyalists are calling out multi-faction players for refusing to help them achieve their faction goals. Why would these players want to help someone who is clearly harboring animosity towards them?
I guess im wrong then, and there is no problems, peopel can still faction hop easilly... then whys the fuss ?2 -
Miriel✭✭✭✭
Honestly I seriously doubt that. They may have left because they believed faction swapping made the campaign un-competitive, but the reality is that if you have come to ESO for competitive PVP, you are in the wrong place.
Yes you have a opinion, i have a opinion... ESO made a change based on numbers and facts they actually have...0 -
CatchMeTrolling✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wasn’t the change based on the fact a small amount of players asked for this change while those that are against it didn’t speak out enough because they didn’t think zos would actually listen?.0 -
bulbousb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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You mean, a long time ago, when they abolished faction lock? Probably.CatchMeTrolling wrote: »Wasn’t the change based on the fact a small amount of players asked for this change while those that are against it didn’t speak out enough because they didn’t think zos would actually listen?.Lethal zergling1 -
ellahellabella✭✭✭✭✭bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »Are you seriously suggesting they should base their server population decisions based on population during off-peak hours?
That's not even CLOSE to what I said. I said that the 7 day is not an option if you don't play primetime and therefore, you can't base popularity on servers on what people think in this circumstance. OC hour only has enough population to take 1 server so 1 server we will still take.Try to read everything I write with an Australian accent
PC NA
ZOMBIE DEATH MACHINE
Vanguard
Outcasts
Full faction locks are only further dividing an already dwindling pvp community
Toons:
SpoilerEbonheart Pact
Sophis (M. Templar), Lilivah Rallenar (M. Sorcerer), Diakoptês (M. Dragonknight), Pins and Needles (M. Nightblade), Claws-your-Curtains (S. Sorcerer), Raan-Mir-Tah (M Warden), Hezik (S Warden)
Aldmeri Dominion
Sophis-ticated (M. Templar), Tis not easy being Green (S. Dragonknight)
Daggerfall Covernant
Sirius Delatora (M. Nightblade), Ellaberry (S. Templar), Ellabear (pve tank) Claìr De Lune (M. Sorc)0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
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Yea but they still have made the game you play, and probably have for how many years ?... they still have far more numbers then i or you or any other arm chair game designer in these forums, im fairly sure none of u have made any AAA MMOs like ESO, so yea ?
The change as ar as i know is purely based on, since alot of people faction hopped, dont blame me or ESO, blame the people that faction hopped, and you will still be able to change faction at the end of every camapign... Faction hoppers is the sole reason why people cant have nice things...
If you are going to use the appeal to authority fallacy, at least pick someone who is an actual authority in PvP.Edited by Joy_Division on May 13, 2019 8:55PM0 -
Miriel✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »
If you are going to use the appeal to authority fallacy, at least pick someone who is an actual authority in PvP.
mmmm id say ZOS, is a farily huge authority on the matter, they have all the info and facts...0 -
GloryClass Representative
I guess im wrong then, and there is no problems, peopel can still faction hop easilly... then whys the fuss ?
Because your argument is that it'll stop griefing, and in reality my point shows that all it will do is stop real PvP while still allowing griefing easily.mDK will rise again.
Rebuild Necromancer pet AI.
@Glorious since I have too many characters to list
Ádamant
Strongly against Faction Lock3 -
Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Mathematically it will be easier for one faction to hit "critical mass" during prime-time, and then we'll see the same happy-clappers who are cheering on faction locking crying about nightcapping.
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Miriel✭✭✭✭Mathematically it will be easier for one faction to hit "critical mass" during prime-time, and then we'll see the same happy-clappers who are cheering on faction locking crying about nightcapping.
and if to many at same time choose the same faction, they will have legendary wait times...0 -
CatchMeTrolling✭✭✭✭✭
✭No one cares about wait times , people will sit in a 500 man queue, this has been proven time and time again.3 -
SippingPotions✭✭✭If you don't like factions locks, vote by dunking scrolls after the patch goes live. I'm guessing that we're going to see more scrolls dunked by spiteful players that hate faction locks than we ever saw from people who swapped factions to "help campaign score".0 -
aetherial_heavenn✭✭✭✭✭I keep seeing this argument that 7 day campaigns are empty from those who oppose faction locks.
My question is, if there are so many people who want to flip sides whenever they choose, farm AP by resource swapping with their social guild friends (aka 'roleplaying') and Emperor farm on all their alts without worrying about the campaign outcome...behaviour usually described as 'playing with my friends' or 'bolstering the low pop side for good fights' and 'playing how I want' ....then these non locked campaigns won't be empty at all and everyone will get good fights with their friends. So what's the problem?
Meanwhile those of us who play the 30 campaign and care about AvAvA and chose our faction before locks were removed, and take that choice seriously, get the PvP we choose on the long campaigns, where it actually matters what side you are on and alliance strategy can be planned over days and weeks.
Mixed guilds who want to play all factions can do so in the 7 days campaigns and flip hourly or choose one and stick to it for 30 days, then swap to the next for the next month, etc. It's not like it's a lifetime lock!
The devs solution seems reasonable to me. Although I would have liked everyone to get a one time only faction alliance swap token so they could sort themselves out before hand.SippingPotions wrote: »If you don't like factions locks, vote by dunking scrolls after the patch goes live. I'm guessing that we're going to see more scrolls dunked by spiteful players that hate faction locks than we ever saw from people who swapped factions to "help campaign score".
Scroll dunkers out of spite are the perfect representative the very worst type of players who support no locks. Flip map, swap, Pv Door and flip flop the map again. "Roleplay" at resources with your friends on the other alliance and then all flip flop again to get easy ap farming each other. Generally ignore the campaign for personal trolling points or leaderboard hogging and play all alliances just for transmute crystals. I see your true colours shining here.
Edited by aetherial_heavenn on May 14, 2019 10:22AMQuoted for truth
"In my experience, the elite ones have not been very toxic, and the toxic ones not very elite." WrathOfInnos8 -
Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭aetherial_heavenn wrote: »My question is, if there are so many people who want to flip sides whenever they choose, farm AP by resource swapping with their social guild friends (aka 'roleplaying') and Emporer farm on all their alts without worrying about the campaign outcome...behaviour usually described as 'playing with my friends' or 'bolstering the low pop side for good fights' and 'playing how I want' ....then these non locked campaigns won't be empty at all and everyone will get good fights with their friends. So what's the problem?
As people keep saying, and as other people keep not listening, outside of prime time, on Xbox, every other campaign is dead.
Your deliberate mischaracterisation of it as "roleplay" demonstrates nothing but ignorance on what happens after you go to bed.4 -
Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Mathematically it will be easier for one faction to hit "critical mass" during prime-time, and then we'll see the same happy-clappers who are cheering on faction locking crying about nightcapping.
Typo. That should be:
Mathematically it will be easier for one faction to hit "critical mass" outside prime-time, and then we'll see the same happy-clappers who are cheering on faction locking crying about nightcapping.
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Elong✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭aetherial_heavenn wrote: »I keep seeing this argument that 7 day campaigns are empty from those who oppose faction locks.
My question is, if there are so many people who want to flip sides whenever they choose, farm AP by resource swapping with their social guild friends (aka 'roleplaying') and Emporer farm on all their alts without worrying about the campaign outcome...behaviour usually described as 'playing with my friends' or 'bolstering the low pop side for good fights' and 'playing how I want' ....then these non locked campaigns won't be empty at all and everyone will get good fights with their friends. So what's the problem?
Meanwhile those of us who play the 30 campaign and care about AvAvA and chose our faction before locks were removed, and take that choice seriously, get the PvP we choose on the long campaigns, where it actually matters what side you are on and alliance strategy can be planned over days and weeks.
Mixed guilds who want to play all factions can do so in the 7 days camapiagns and flip hourly or choose one and stick to it for 30 days, then swap to the next for the next month, etc. It's not like it's a lifetime lock!
The devs solution seems reasonable to me. Although I would have liked everyone to get a one time only faction alliance swap token so they could sort themselves out before hand.
Scroll dunkers out of spite are the perfect representative the very worst type of players who support no locks. Flip map, swap, Pv Door and flip flop the map again. "Roleplay" at resources with your friends on the other alliance and then all flip flop again to get easy ap farming each other. Generally ignore the campaign for personal trolling points or leaderboard hogging and play all alliances just for transmute crystals. I see your true colours shining here.
As explained a hundred times, outside of prime time, there isn't enough population.
Brick wall, head, hitting. Put the sentence together.4 -
SippingPotions✭✭✭aetherial_heavenn wrote: »I keep seeing this argument that 7 day campaigns are empty from those who oppose faction locks.
My question is, if there are so many people who want to flip sides whenever they choose, farm AP by resource swapping with their social guild friends (aka 'roleplaying') and Emporer farm on all their alts without worrying about the campaign outcome...behaviour usually described as 'playing with my friends' or 'bolstering the low pop side for good fights' and 'playing how I want' ....then these non locked campaigns won't be empty at all and everyone will get good fights with their friends. So what's the problem?
You say that as if this game has a thriving PVP population that can fill multiple campaigns at all hours of day.
I already play in shor on the weekends and during primetime when you zerglings destroy the servers by meat stacking and "playing the map". Your argument would be valid if this was 2015.Edited by SippingPotions on May 14, 2019 10:16AM3 -
aetherial_heavenn✭✭✭✭✭
From May 2016 until march 2019 I exclusively played at Oceanic/SEA peak times. That is between 10 pm and 9am NA EST time. So please don't accuse me of being ignorant about what happens off NA peak. Oceanic/SE Asian players have a 'peak' time too.
As people keep saying, and as other people keep not listening, outside of prime time, on Xbox, every other campaign is dead.
Your deliberate mischaracterisation of it as "roleplay" demonstrates nothing but ignorance on what happens after you go to bed.
I still play on DC Vivec NA PC on Aussie peak or NA peak depending on my guildies. I will admit XBox PvP is a mystery to me but I do play with some console and X Box refugees. I suspect half the problem you describe is due to a low pop platform overall and locks or no locks ain't going to fix the fundamental problem of a broken platform with too few players.
As to your second point about mischaracterisation: 'Roleplaying' is the way that banned players used to justify their shenanigans (ie resource and AP farming each other by faction flipping.) Until they got banned for exploiting... Sorry if you haven't been around long enough to know that particular usage. I was using the term as an insult to them....not to genuine small group fights.
Back on the topic of locks affecting the majority of ESO PVP players. I have stood with the entire DC faction online in Vivec at Glade at Australian peak time ...all 20 of us...watching people who fought alongside us the hour before all reappear on AD toons in a huge zerg ball to gate EP and DC because, and I quote, "it's just too hard to 4 v 30 or 40 so we may as well play with the side with numbers'.
I have seen several guild leaders set their alarms and play in middle of the NA night (like 3 or 4 am) to try to rally the DC faction who do play off peak after being gated every night for 3 months straight and then watched as the DC ADand EP flippers trolled them mercilessly in zone to prevent the DC off peak pugs from being coordinated ....not to mention the scroll trolling that was coordinated by the same players' groups/'guilds'.
Ask any DC off NA peak player how many people they see who flip to support the low pop sides (which tend to be EP and DC on Vivec after the NA Peak guilds and many other NA players log off.) and they'll answer...none?
What I have seen is dozens of individuals flip to AD toons take advantage of the AD increase in pop at Oceanic/SEA peak so they could zerg surf to get AP by faction stacking and PvDooring. There are several Aussie and Asian guilds on AD who play regularly and exclusively on our Oceanic/SEA peak. They want good fights but can't get them because the DC and EP flippers see their numbers and join on AD toons just to zerg surf. So the problem of off peak imbalance is compounded further.
They couldn't do this if factions were locked for a month. This is the argument we who advocated faction locks in some form have been putting in the forums for several months/year now. This is the situation the devs were asked to investigate. That ZoS has the numbers and came up with this solution indicates either we were more rational, better informed and better at debating than the OP, Joy Division and the gang opposing faction locks; Or that ZoS checked the data and came to the same conclusion; Or both.
All I see from those opposing locks is:
1 'it won't work because of pop imbalance'...well, there is always a pop imbalance in favour of whichever faction is top of the leader board at the moment, so that doesn't fly. And there is pop imbalance at different times of the day, so that doesn't fly. What faction locking for 30 days will fix is mass guild flipping mid campaign, zone trolling, and PvEers faction stacking the winning side, at the end of campaign.
2' it won't work because I wanna play how i wanna play'.....well, you can. Just not on a 'proper' long alliance based campaign where faction stability makes a difference
3 'I don't wanna play 7 days because no one else does'....well, if all of you held hands and decided on a 7 day campaign there'd be plenty of small group fights, which you say you want and no lag, which you say you want. There are enough names in the posts in these forums to do that. JS.
As I keep saying. It would be nice to have a once only per character faction flip token to allow people to sort out their characters if they made them without having any race any alliance from the store, or when they didn't know that it would be necessary to choose a side and stick to it.
And some way of balancing the necromancer meta race influx will be necessary too.
But overall I am really happy the 30 day campaigns will be locked
DC for life!
edited for typosEdited by aetherial_heavenn on May 14, 2019 10:26AMQuoted for truth
"In my experience, the elite ones have not been very toxic, and the toxic ones not very elite." WrathOfInnos4 -
Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭aetherial_heavenn wrote: »From May 2016 until march 2019 I exclusively played at Oceanic/SEA peak times. That is between 10 pm and 9am NA EST time. So please don't accuse me of being ignorant about what happens off NA peak. Oceanic/SE Asian players have a 'peak' time too.
I still play on DC Vivec NA PC on Aussie peak or NA peak depending on my guildies. I will admit XBox PvP is a mystery to me....
So the rest of your spiel is irrelevant to Xbox holders. Because you are clueless on the situation. . PLus once again ignores the fundamental issue that a lot of people have made friends across all 3 factions due to 1T.
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mague✭✭✭✭✭
So the rest of your spiel is irrelevant to Xbox holders. Because you are clueless on the situation. . PLus once again ignores the fundamental issue that a lot of people have made friends across all 3 factions due to 1T.
Friends will be friends...
But the exploits are so abysmal that something has to happen. This or Cyrodill will be the home of the most toxic freakshow. No honest player is going to waste more time into stuff like preventing low pop bonus while the other low pop has their best groups running and even expanding while getting 200 points every hour. And this is just the tip of the floating iceberg.
Whenever i encounter blatant exploits i leave the zone. Funny enough that we almost queue at the teletower to PvE.Edited by mague on May 14, 2019 11:21AM0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭aetherial_heavenn wrote: »From May 2016 until march 2019 I exclusively played at Oceanic/SEA peak times. That is between 10 pm and 9am NA EST time. So please don't accuse me of being ignorant about what happens off NA peak. Oceanic/SE Asian players have a 'peak' time too.
I still play on DC Vivec NA PC on Aussie peak or NA peak depending on my guildies. I will admit XBox PvP is a mystery to me but I do play with some console and X Box refugees. I suspect half the problem you describe is due to a low pop platform overall and locks or no locks ain't going to fix the fundamental problem of a broken platform with too few players.
As to your second point about mischaracterisation: 'Roleplaying' is the way that banned players used to justify their shenanigans (ie resource and AP farming each other by faction flipping.) Until they got banned for exploiting... Sorry if you haven't been around long enough to know that particular usage. I was using the term as an insult to them....not to genuine small group fights.
Back on the topic of locks affecting the majority of ESO PVP players. I have stood with the entire DC faction online in Vivec at Glade at Australian peak time ...all 20 of us...watching people who fought alongside us the hour before all reappear on AD toons in a huge zerg ball to gate EP and DC because, and I quote, "it's just too hard to 4 v 30 or 40 so we may as well play with the side with numbers'.
I have seen several guild leaders set their alarms and play in middle of the NA night (like 3 or 4 am) to try to rally the DC faction who do play off peak after being gated every night for 3 months straight and then watched as the DC ADand EP flippers trolled them mercilessly in zone to prevent the DC off peak pugs from being coordinated ....not to mention the scroll trolling that was coordinated by the same players' groups/'guilds'.
Ask any DC off NA peak player how many people they see who flip to support the low pop sides (which tend to be EP and DC on Vivec after the NA Peak guilds and many other NA players log off.) and they'll answer...none?
What I have seen is dozens of individuals flip to AD toons take advantage of the AD increase in pop at Oceanic/SEA peak so they could zerg surf to get AP by faction stacking and PvDooring. There are several Aussie and Asian guilds on AD who play regularly and exclusively on our Oceanic/SEA peak. They want good fights but can't get them because the DC and EP flippers see their numbers and join on AD toons just to zerg surf. So the problem of off peak imbalance is compounded further.
They couldn't do this if factions were locked for a month. This is the argument we who advocated faction locks in some form have been putting in the forums for several months/year now. This is the situation the devs were asked to investigate. That ZoS has the numbers and came up with this solution indicates either we were more rational, better informed and better at debating than the OP, Joy Division and the gang opposing faction locks; Or that ZoS checked the data and came to the same conclusion; Or both.
All I see from those opposing locks is:
1 'it won't work because of pop imbalance'...well, there is always a pop imbalance in favour of whichever faction is top of the leader board at the moment, so that doesn't fly. And there is pop imbalance at different times of the day, so that doesn't fly. What faction locking for 30 days will fix is mass guild flipping mid campaign, zone trolling, and PvEers faction stacking the winning side, at the end of campaign.
2' it won't work because I wanna play how i wanna play'.....well, you can. Just not on a 'proper' long alliance based campaign where faction stability makes a difference
3 'I don't wanna play 7 days because no one else does'....well, if all of you held hands and decided on a 7 day campaign there'd be plenty of small group fights, which you say you want and no lag, which you say you want. There are enough names in the posts in these forums to do that. JS.
As I keep saying. It would be nice to have a once only per character faction flip token to allow people to sort out their characters if they made them without having any race any alliance from the store, or when they didn't know that it would be necessary to choose a side and stick to it.
And some way of balancing the necromancer meta race influx will be necessary too.
But overall I am really happy the 30 day campaigns will be locked
DC for life!
edited for typos
If you played as often as you claimed that you did, you would know perfectly why those unlocked dead campaigns will remain dead campaigns.
You're side isnt more rational, isn't better informed, and not better at debating than "my gang," though perhaps more condescending. I just have to laugh how some "faction loyalists" think they're better people and superior gamers, whereas "faction hoppers" have done nothing but grief. Of the all the most disgusting, banable, hateful tells I have ever got playing this game, 90% of them were from diehard "faction loyalists."
I was at ZOS headquarters and spoke to them why they made the change. I have news for you, they didn't "check the data." People are just making that up as an appeal to authority fallacy, that somehow ZOS just knows. ZOS made this change because the PvP system has been busted since launch. Yes, it was busted when faction-locks were a thing and when 99% of players only had one character. This is their latest attempt at a fix and it got a lot of momentum because people who play multiple factions blissfully assumed ZOS would keep things the way they were and didn't come to the forums until after ZOS made the change. If you want to say it's their own fault, that's fair and perhaps correct, but just stop with the "ZOS knows!" fantasy. ZOS doesn't know. Because if they did, Cyrodiil would have more to it that just zerging around the emperor ring, PvDooring keeps for 6K AP, and actual AvAvA features for solo players.
Edited by Joy_Division on May 14, 2019 1:41PM7
