@jcm2606

Especially because the 5.0.0 iteration of Fear now hits 6 targets and they no longer run away from the caster. You don’t necessarily need to kill outright with Incap. It’s enough that it ensures a completely drained stam pool if you play it right.

No seriously ZOS just revert it

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability.

Hey guys @ZOS_BrianWheeler and @Gilliamtherogue , i feel cheated, bc in the last few month i defend and praise u, even if i disliked 1 of your ideas or i disagreed with it, i did that bc i thought u have a VISION about this game, it has so much potential and its seemed, at least from here that u have pland route what we will walk through during the next few patch. You can like it or dislike it but at least there is a hope to arrive into something more coherent more "balanced" combat system.
It was so fun to wacth u guys in ESO LIVE, for me it gave strenght and hope to belive that the game grow up one day to the expectations.

But now its all blur out the contradiction between the initial developer comment

"Death Stroke has been notorious for being a very potent Ultimate. We wanted to retain this ability's identity as a mark for death on your target, helping the Nightblade excel at assassinating high priority targets while reducing some of the over bearing nature it enables. You'll note that Soul Harvest has been left untouched, which is due to the morph only granting a conditional bonus previously. Now, Soul Harvest offers a guaranteed bonus with a conditional, while Incapacitating Strike doubles down on offering two powerful conditional bonuses."

and whats happening now with incap in v5.0.3

What is really traumatize me tho is the whole process, you START (???) investigating counter-paly options after the reaction what its obvious to anyone. I mean i just dont get. It should happen during the brainstroming in my world. I kind of the guy who always try to watch the bright side of things. However this method show me that your not really thought and speak trought that whole change which is really disappointing.

There is still 11 day untill preorderd Elswyrs releas so u have time to revert this. Iam kinda hope that your are just under heavy pressure bc if the releas date is comeing and its awful thing just slipped through somehow, iam naive dont i?

Cinbri wrote: »

I have suggestion to zos - waste your utterly limited time on thinking how to adjust and fix weakest pvp classes instead of thinking how to overbuff already superior ones.

Out of curiousity, which class may that be?

Just kill them before they incap you

Can we make negare moveable, like eye of the storm destro ulti?

StShoot wrote: »

ilcavallo wrote: »

StShoot wrote: »

Wolfahm wrote: »

HELLO I AM A PVP-MAGSORC LOBBYIST AND I WANT TO NEVER DIE AND RULE ALL OF NIRN! LISTEN TO MY TEARS AND SHAPE THE GAME TO MY WILL SINCE 2014!

you know the same goes for stamblades right? a decent nb with cloak and shade dies even less than a mag sorc. im still waiting when all those stamblades who are hyped for the incap will realize that they wont be able to cloak spam or use shade if they get hit by it and start crying

tbh honest i think it would be fun if that change goes live (i would stop playing who wants my loot xD?) but it would be realy entertaining to see the forum blades cry about their own class and the to high nb pop in cyro

The same doesn't go for NBs. I've never seen a more triggered reaction from PTS notes - look at all the threads about NBs. It's like some kind of sick obsession.

And a decent NB with cloak and shade dies even less than a magsorc? Jesus Christ, I think I've heard it all now.

The days of solo/small group play are long gone. Vivec is mostly zergs and ball groups. Meanwhile you guys are all worked up over a squishy stamblade hanging out on the sidelines. Sure they can roll dodge and cloak a few times before running out of magicka but their health recoveries usually suck and they have no burst heal. It's not like they stack health or resistances. I mean shade doesn't even work half the time. It blows my mind how so many people think NBs are OP in PVP.

Please do us all a favor. If you can't figure out how to break cloak and beat or at least not die over and over to "OP" stamblades just take your PC or console and place it in your bathtub full of water instead of embarrassing yourself on the forums and pissing away everyone's time because the game isn't exactly the way you want it.

squishi stamblades? lol i think you play your nb wrong if its to squishi (ever thought about trollking? its pretty decent when you use it while cloaked) also i dont want to compare streak+shields with cloak+shade both are realy strong combos to get away but if i had to choose between those two i would decide for that skill that negates all dots, and gives me a big advantage against ranged enemys additional weapon dmg and an auto crit.

i guess you play on na/ps4/xbox ? because there are still pretty good smallscalers(>5) on pc vivec eu, you can even see some smallscalers on sotha (even if its harder)

Let me ask you a question, is it fine for you that one class to has a conter against EVERY other magica class in the game? because if you call that ballance, you shouldnt play an online game at all.
But you are right cloak alone isnt a problem, just anoying (thats one of the reasons why magblades are so bad) it only gets a problem if it combined with snare/root immunety, shade and insane movementspeed

I gave up arguing with (stam)nb mains a long time ago (some of them are reasonable) but most of them are just salty kids, a gank goes wrong because the sorc managed to shield, dk/templar healed to fast ? just start crying about healbots, tanks and sorcs

PS.
I should clarify that i talked about heavy amor stamblades in my post, not about magblades or mediumblades (even if nbs can get the most out of medium amor)

Honestly, I don't even play on a NB anymore. I main a stamsorc on NA. So, yeah, I know what it really feels like to be a little underpowered sometimes. But it's still fun or at least it has been.

Medium is pretty much a death sentence in CP PVP right now with or without troll king and heavy blades just don't have the same mobility, sustain and burst. Trying to play a NB like a DK just doesn't work.

Here's what I think about silence on incap:
Is it OP? Yeah. Do I really care? No. I mean let them have their fun. They're a single target class that's most effective in 5+ pieces of medium armor. That in itself is a tough spot to be in right now. They lost what minor endurance, minor beserk, major fracture and major defile from one of the Incap morphs? I don't know. I can't keep up with all the changes flying around.

Let's look at how we got here though. Most of the people complaining about Incap right now are the same people that couldn't 1v1 stamblades before when all you really had to do was survive their initial burst, break cloak and start putting pressure back on them. I mean I get hit with 8k Incaps. They're NBs, so it's going to hurt. But I never really felt like they were OP before this patch. So at what point do we stop turning the game upside down to please one or two classes or people that just can't seem to get the hang of PVP? Because this all seems to have been a waste of time that didn't result in very many improvements - maybe none overall.

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability.

First of all, your main thought was right: In basically every MMO a rogue-like class has something like a single target silence ability.

Though able MagSorcs can easiliy counter it, MagTemplars and MagWardens won`t be that lucky.

So please increase the Ulti cost to 300 or so, AND add another condition that rewards skillful play, which also prevents a Stealth- Stun/Fear- Silence combo. Like: After using Dodge roll, this skill also silences the target for one second.

And if you`re done with it, please look at more pressing problems:

1) the hitbox of Jabs and Fiery Breath,
2) creating a grace period for pets before they respawn, so that the double bar problem is solved,
3) the sorry state of the MagWarden (I think Swarm could be the key here)
4) and the lack of a conjured weapon class spammable for StamSorcs (Bound armaments)



Thank you.

Dear Devs, there's no need to look for counter-play options - simply remove the silence effect again and instantly generate 200 credibility points with your playerbase.

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Is... Is this NB nerf thread ?
Sorry I had to ask about that... I just had to...

Anyway, it is another day, I kinda was thinking of various scenarios and tbh. the silence on this ulti is kinda OP. Sure - it is only 3 seconds and I am pretty sure that there will be situations where you could technically even not notice that (like in for example 4 - 5 seconds lag in cyro in which skill dont work at all etc).
But... But it can be too much for certain classes to handle. I usually run hybrid builds so I can understand both stamina & magicks players. Some ideas:
1. Remove the silence, but also reduce ulti cost 120 -> 110 or 100 ulti.
2. Replace the silence with some skill cost de-buff (so you will be able to use them but they will be more expensive, similar to what poisons do). Important note here is not to make them stack with those poisons.
3. Replace silence with some passive buff that works after triggering the ultimate.

Also I would like to point out that incap changes actually overshadows all the nerfs that NB got this patch. They lost a lot of usefull tools they had in their kit. Tanking role & healing role were gutted hard and mag NB will be pretty much an underdog class. That is ofcourse if those incap changes will go live. Because if they do, the next patch ZOS will futher "remove redundancy" by removing some other usefull tools from NB's kit argumenting that they have acces to silence etc. I would rather have some stabilty to be able to plan my build to grind the gear and make it work. You can say anything about nb changes but stability is not one of them. It is a totall chaos and mess...

Nah, this is more of a "wow I cant believe that the incap silence got past the Brainstorming Phase our devs really dont know how this game works do they?" thread^^.
That being said lets Delve int your comment.

It´s nice that you too are now acknowledging that this Change is problematic to say the least. 3 Seconds of not being able to cast any ability really isnt all that short of a time, if you want an adequate comparison just duel a stamblade on a magclass with 10 mag abilities while Standing inside a negate for 3 seconds without being allowed to leave it and that is being generous and assuming that outnumbered PvP doesnt exist. After that you can tell me how short 3 seconds really are in a PvP fight where only one side can act.
Towards your incap ideas:
1. Incap still has a 70 base cost, the 120 ult cost Version is there if you want to make half of the PvP Population free AP.
2. We really dont Need more cost increase than poisons we really dont.
3. Incap already got a passive buff for only slotting it.
4. Why can no nightblade Player accept that incap at 70 cost is a very strong single target burst ultimate that increases your following Damage in the next 6 seconds by 20% and that this is already more than enough for a 70 ult cost?
5. Swap pts incap with 70 ult cost with pts empowering sweep and you will see what I mean.

Nightblade didnt get only nerfs tho, nightblade still has Access to fracture and if you dont have space for mark target then you can start doing what stamsorc and stamplar have been doing since the very Inception of their class, get fracture elsewhere or deal with it. Minor Berserk got redistributed to minor vulnerability which arguably is stronger than berserk since it buffs the Damage of all your allies aswell as your own. Nightblades got a 4 seconds snare removal (strongest in the game alongside Forward Momentum) which is a Carbon copy of Shuffle only in better and not restricted to armor choices and gives class passives. Nightblades got a 15% Damage Mitigation in Exchange for minor Endurance (which already gets replaced with reave on incap). It is really astonishing how many nightblade Players think nightblades are actually getting nerfed in the current pts build.

@Tommy_The_Gun

The only positive Thing that I can think of current incap Change has is it being most likely banned in dueling tournaments.

zyk wrote: »

The most reasonable explanation for the silence is that ZOS is trolling us. Silence is essentially a kind of CC that one can't break-free or gain immunity from which goes against the general design ethos in this application.

It's already so easy to gank on a Stamblade. One can burst down 30k targets in one or two gcds with even a defensive or sustain build. If those targets were also silenced for 3s, a Magicka build would probably need 50k health to reliably survive ganks without help.

So basically, this change is game-breaking.

Not only is it OP, but being locked out of magicka abilities and ultimates for 3 seconds at a time on a regular basis would be a terrible gameplay experience.

Also, I don't think players want to see more polarized abilities that shut down Magicka builds without affecting Stam builds as seriously.

^

Hexys wrote: »

Incapacitating Strike: This morph no longer applies Minor Mangle or Stuns the target when cast with 120 or more Ultimate. Instead, it now Silences the target for 3 seconds when cast with 120 or more Ultimate. Additionally, while slotted, it now grants Reave, which restores up to 100 Magicka and Stamina when dealing damage with a Light or Heavy Attack on a target with a negative effect active on them.

Dev comments
After collecting much feedback from forum threads and other outlets, we noted a lot of the feedback on how Mangle's operation was far too niche in terms of engagement due to how the debuff works. While the theme was aimed at helping the Nightblade single out an opponent and put them closer to death's door, we missed the mark in delivery. We want to retain the idea of the Nightblade isolating their target and gaining a few precious seconds of denial on the target's ability to recuperate, but we wanted the defender to at least be able to reposition while those seconds count down, so we have removed the stun in place of a Silence. Additionally, much like Soul Harvest, there is a passive gained for slotting the ability. However, this passive effect makes up a much smaller portion of the ability’s power, since Silences are such powerful disabling tools.

If this goes live I'm gonna put this game behind me lol

Normally I would be constructive in feedback, but this time, I don't know what to say. How is this even considered a change? The developer comments are nice, but in this case just don't make up

Dude I'm with ya. If this goes live I'm just done with this game. I cant understand who ever thought this was a good idea?