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The problem with faction lock for the veteran PvP players

  • Glory
    Glory
    Class Representative
    Throwback to March 2016 when ESO had a larger PvP population, and ZOS decided that faction locking was a bad idea:

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2753849#Comment_2753849
    mDK will rise again.
    Rebuild Necromancer pet AI.

    @Glorious since I have too many characters to list

    Ádamant

    Strongly against Faction Lock
  • josh.lackey_ESO
    josh.lackey_ESO
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    Ahtu wrote: »
    On the flip side, AD had a horde last night which stole our scroll with DC's help. Where was our relief? Nobody came to help us and we were out there on our own because everyone was on AD.

    Switching to the winning team is much more common among the playerbase than switching to the losing side.

    If the factions are all poplocked, then the populations are equal. What evidence do you have that "everyone was on AD"? Just because it it feels that way to you subjectively doesn't mean that's what's really happening. You win some you lose some. It's a 3 faction war. It will always be the two teams "teaming up" against the third. That's by design.
    Edited by josh.lackey_ESO on April 18, 2019 3:01PM
  • Grimlok_S
    Grimlok_S
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    I don't understand why so many people refuse to read the line below the 30 day campaign locks.

    7 day campaign remains unlocked.
    If you are not a faction RPvWaller or someone who cares for campaign score you will continue to enjoy tri-faction play on the 7 day. Play the 7 day.
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  • Haashhtaag
    Haashhtaag
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    Grimlok_S wrote: »
    I don't understand why so many people refuse to read the line below the 30 day campaign locks.

    7 day campaign remains unlocked.
    If you are not a faction RPvWaller or someone who cares for campaign score you will continue to enjoy tri-faction play on the 7 day. Play the 7 day.
    Lmao yeah sure....
  • ZarkingFrued
    ZarkingFrued
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    I'm not mad at it. I assume they have numbers behind their decision and see how many flock to the winning alliance
  • ellahellabella
    ellahellabella
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    I'm not mad at it. I assume they have numbers behind their decision and see how many flock to the winning alliance

    Hee hee. You're funny! Gave an awesome for the lol
    Try to read everything I write with an Australian accent

    PC NA
    ZOMBIE DEATH MACHINE
    Vanguard
    Outcasts
    Full faction locks are only further dividing an already dwindling pvp community

    Toons:
    Ebonheart Pact
    Sophis (M. Templar), Lilivah Rallenar (M. Sorcerer), Diakoptês (M. Dragonknight), Pins and Needles (M. Nightblade), Claws-your-Curtains (S. Sorcerer), Raan-Mir-Tah (M Warden), Hezik (S Warden)

    Aldmeri Dominion
    Sophis-ticated (M. Templar), Tis not easy being Green (S. Dragonknight)

    Daggerfall Covernant
    Sirius Delatora (M. Nightblade), Ellaberry (S. Templar), Ellabear (pve tank) Claìr De Lune (M. Sorc)
  • Miswar
    Miswar
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    There is nothing wrong about it... +90% of pvp guild members are looking forward to it.

    To be honest only people crying, whining etc etc are the ap glory hunters that swap alliances more than their socks, ap boosters and zonechat trolls... once their brains start to function they notice they still have a campaign where they can continue exact those things they might shut up.

    ...than again these people know that most pvp players wohn't be there since people do like the factioned lock idea thus their ego takes a hit etc etc.

    To summarize.. best change for pvp and longtime overdue....gg for Zos to this 1.
  • Haashhtaag
    Haashhtaag
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    Miswar wrote: »
    There is nothing wrong about it... +90% of pvp guild members are looking forward to it.

    To be honest only people crying, whining etc etc are the ap glory hunters that swap alliances more than their socks, ap boosters and zonechat trolls... once their brains start to function they notice they still have a campaign where they can continue exact those things they might shut up.

    ...than again these people know that most pvp players wohn't be there since people do like the factioned lock idea thus their ego takes a hit etc etc.

    To summarize.. best change for pvp and longtime overdue....gg for Zos to this 1.

    Did you know faction locks existed before and it didn’t stop a single thing you listed above?
  • Ahtu
    Ahtu
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    It's a different time now, a new era. Now is the zerg era. Faction locks will help with that.
  • CatchMeTrolling
    CatchMeTrolling
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    Ahtu wrote: »
    It's a different time now, a new era. Now is the zerg era. Faction locks will help with that.

    It’s always been zerging, in fact there was bigger zergs before.
  • Haashhtaag
    Haashhtaag
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    Ahtu wrote: »
    It's a different time now, a new era. Now is the zerg era. Faction locks will help with that.

    It’s always been zerging, in fact there was bigger zergs before.

    He probably didn’t play when each faction had a guild of the same number of people they run with currently or more zerging. Probably didn’t play when there was higher population caps and the queues were 200-300 people. But that kind of population doesn’t exist anymore so we will just have emptiness
    Edited by Haashhtaag on April 19, 2019 2:57PM
  • frozywozy
    frozywozy
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    Ahtu wrote: »
    It's a different time now, a new era. Now is the zerg era. Faction locks will help with that.

    I think you missed the nerf to earthgore.
    Frozn - Stamdk - AR50
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    Mmfrozy - Magsorc - AR44
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    PvP Group Builds

    “Small minds discuss people, average minds discuss events, and great minds discuss ideas.” -Eleanor Roosevelt
    • Fix Volendrung (spawn location - weapon white on the map causing the wielder to keep it forever - usable with emperorship)
    • Remove / Change CPs System, remove current CP/noCP campaigns and introduce one 30days with lock, one with no locks
    • Fix crashes when approaching a keep under attack because of bad / wrong rendering prioritization system
    • Change emperorship to value faction score points and not alliance points - see this and this
    • Fix long loading screens (mostly caused by players joining group out of rendering range)
    • Add 2 more quickslots to the wheel or add a different wheel for sieges weaponry only
    • Fix Balista Bolts not dealing damage on walls or doors if deployed at a certain place
    • Release bigger battlegrounds with 8 to 16 players per team and only two teams
    • Fix the permanent block animation - see examples : link1 link2 link3 link4 link5
    • Gives players 10 minutes to get back into Cyrodiil after relogging / crashing
    • Add a function to ignore the Claiming system of useless rewards
    • Improve the Mailing System / Rewards of the Worthy stacking
    • Assign specific group sizes to specific campaigns (24-16-8)
    • Make forward camps impossible to place near objectives
    • Make snares only available from ground effects abilities
    • Change emperorship to last minimum 24hours
    • Fix body sliding after cc breaking too quickly
    • Remove Block Casting through Battle Spirit
    • Fix the speed drop while jumping - see video
    • Fix loading screens when keeps upgrade
    • Fix Rams going crazy (spinning around)
    • Bring back dynamic ulti regeneration
    • Fix speed bug (abilities locked)
    • Introduce dynamic population
    • Lower population cap by 20%
    • Add Snare Immunity potions
    • Bring resurrection sickness
    • Fix character desync
    • Fix cc breaking bug
    • Fix gap closer bug
    • Fix health desync
    • Fix combat bug
    • Fix streak bug
    • Fix server lag
  • Ahtu
    Ahtu
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    Out with the old, in with the new.
  • Glory
    Glory
    Class Representative
    Ahtu wrote: »
    ADAPT OR DIE.

    Ahtu wrote: »
    Out with the old, in with the new.

    You're killing the slogan game.
    mDK will rise again.
    Rebuild Necromancer pet AI.

    @Glorious since I have too many characters to list

    Ádamant

    Strongly against Faction Lock
  • CatchMeTrolling
    CatchMeTrolling
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    Haashhtaag wrote: »
    Ahtu wrote: »
    It's a different time now, a new era. Now is the zerg era. Faction locks will help with that.

    It’s always been zerging, in fact there was bigger zergs before.

    He probably didn’t play when each faction had a guild of the same number of people they run with currently or more zerging. Probably didn’t play when there was higher population caps and the queues were 200-300 people. But that kind of population doesn’t exist anymore so we will just have emptiness

    Remember farming ap in azuras star before no cp and there was literally 100-200 ad behind our gate. Faction lock will just be annoying because everyone plays in the 30 day by default.
  • Miswar
    Miswar
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    Yes, I did know they existed and it was an mistake to remove them.

    Just watched a player get in leaderboard on all alliances in one of these new campaign. How did that happen?

    Friends AP boosting the same way.. seems he got an emp very quickly through this and incentive seems to be Tel Var farming in IC... and yes most likely selling eso gold for real money through this.

    As we can see just another small example what it does mean to have non-locked campaigns.
  • Ahtu
    Ahtu
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    Reminds me of when a certain AD leader got fed AP by his AD friends on EP so that he would be crowned Emperor instead of me last campaign. This is why we can't have nice things because people will gain the system to try and mess with someone who is playing the game normally for fun for to satisfy their own insecurities and egos. Direct your frustrations toward them not ZOS who is actually doing something about the issue so that players like me can enjoy the game in peace without exploiters trying to screw with us.
    Edited by Ahtu on April 19, 2019 7:33PM
  • CatchMeTrolling
    CatchMeTrolling
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    You’d still be able to boost ap off of friends???
  • Ahtu
    Ahtu
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    Right, but you wouldn't be able to switch back to the other faction and would be stuck playing that campaign so there's less incentive. Right now there's no consequences for doing something like that which is so petty. Just gives you some insight into the minds of these AD leaders.

    I would never follow someone who would do that to someone.
    Edited by Ahtu on April 19, 2019 8:16PM
  • Elong
    Elong
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    Ahtu wrote: »
    Right, but you wouldn't be able to switch back to the other faction and would be stuck playing that campaign so there's less incentive. Right now there's no consequences for doing something like that which is so petty. Just gives you some insight into the minds of these AD leaders.

    I would never follow someone who would do that.

    You would earn more ap and be comfortably in first place if you didn't share it with 80 other players.
  • Ixtyr
    Ixtyr
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    Ahtu wrote: »
    Reminds me of when a certain AD leader got fed AP by his AD friends on EP so that he would be crowned Emperor instead of me last campaign. This is why we can't have nice things because people will gain the system to try and mess with someone who is playing the game normally for fun for to satisfy their own insecurities and egos. Direct your frustrations toward them not ZOS who is actually doing something about the issue so that players like me can enjoy the game in peace without exploiters trying to screw with us.

    Lol, Crown literally just played in a small group and flipped resources in-between player encounters. The fact you're accusing him of "exploiting" just tells me you don't understand how basic AP gains work. AP from kills is divided amongst all players participating in that kill. When you have 50+ people, you're only going to get at most 100-200 AP for a kill, Crown and his wife duoing will get 1,500-2,500 per kill, and the defensive and offensive ticks will give them significantly more credit per player as well.

    If you want to get to #1 on the Leaderboard, you're not going to get it by stacking inside of 50 other people. You'll get it by playing a ridiculous number of hours, and farming kills and resources solo or in a small group. That's mechanically how the system has worked for years now, that's why Afro was able to hold Emp for EP for seemingly every Vivec cycle for the past year - dude just plays a ton, mostly in solo or small group settings, and when he did play in a larger group, it was one that ran 16 people - not 60. Again, more AP per hour.

    If anything, the fact that you couldn't catch him, despite him not dedicating 100% of his time to EP, when you were, just shows that you were being remarkably inefficient with your time.

    Stacking inside 50 people is the tactic you settle on when you want to physically flip the map to actually crown the Emperor - anyone who's gotten Emp in a tight race for first over the years will tell you that actually jumping in to try to flip those keeps results in a massive decline in AP gain, giving an opportunity to the guy in #2 to catch up. It's happened to me, it's happened to hundreds of players. Now it's happened to you, although you were never really close.

    Stop trying to excuse your own failures by blindly accusing others of "exploiting". Try harder next time, and be smart about it, and if you're good, you'll have no issue.
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  • Ahtu
    Ahtu
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    It was explained to me that he was fed AP. I could be wrong and honestly I'm not bothered by it as I crowned him Emperor myself with the help of my group. I just find it a little strange that he did that when I was pushing Emperor since he doesn't play EP but it could just be coincidence.

    I respect Crown very much and I'm not blaming him as he can do whatever he wants with his time, just as I do. Also, I don't want to farm resources all day in a small group either because that sounds like the most boring thing I can think of and I would much rather lead as many players as possible. I can imagine you all having a good laugh at my expense when this happened though.

    Don't worry I will try again after faction locks are in place.
    Edited by Ahtu on April 19, 2019 8:41PM
  • Crown
    Crown
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    @Ahtu My EP Templar was the last toon that I had never emped before, so took the opportunity knowing that faction locks were coming. What Ixtyr said is about right. You make a LOT more AP constantly moving in a small group than in a large one. There are also a few tricks to applying debuffs to opponents or buffs to allies in order to get more of the total AP from kills, but you still have to be there to get them. You're right that flipping resources is boring, but it's good AP in the middle of killing things. You also have to know when to leave and ignore the map.. after killing people they're not worth AP for 5 mins, so if you go off a good bomb/wipe, go fight other things and come back later. If you stay in the same place, you're not making points.
    Edited by Crown on April 19, 2019 9:32PM
    Crown | AD NB | First AD/NA Grand Overlord (2015/12/26)
    PvP Guides @ DarkElves.com
  • Crown
    Crown
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    @Ahtu also https://darkelves.com/making-ap/

    Look at the linked spreadsheet.
    Crown | AD NB | First AD/NA Grand Overlord (2015/12/26)
    PvP Guides @ DarkElves.com
  • Ahtu
    Ahtu
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    Thanks Crown I have looked at your website before. Congrats on Emping and no hard feelings.
  • Crown
    Crown
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    Ahtu wrote: »
    Thanks Crown I have looked at your website before. Congrats on Emping and no hard feelings.

    @Ahtu I appreciated your helping to emp me - though that was somewhat self serving as it was the quickest way to make me go away ;-)
    Crown | AD NB | First AD/NA Grand Overlord (2015/12/26)
    PvP Guides @ DarkElves.com
  • Ahtu
    Ahtu
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    I hoped you would stay a while longer so I could learn your secrets. :)
  • Crown
    Crown
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    Ahtu wrote: »
    I hoped you would stay a while longer so I could learn your secrets. :)

    @Ahtu My wife has a toon on EP that hasn't been emp, and we were thinking about doing that next reset. None of it is secret - it's just really mind numbing (14 hours last time of constant moving and running to the next fight/location). If we do try for it, you're welcome to join us (and leech B) ) either after she gets a few hundred k AP ahead, or right away if you commit to letting her emp before you..
    Edited by Crown on April 20, 2019 11:58PM
    Crown | AD NB | First AD/NA Grand Overlord (2015/12/26)
    PvP Guides @ DarkElves.com
  • MipMip
    MipMip
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    Glory wrote: »
    It's a midday weekend, Vivec is 3-Lock-3 on PC NA, every other campaign is 0 across the board.

    EP has the majority of the map. I have been playing on EP with a group of friends, and because the factions are so unbalanced currently we are moving to fight on DC.

    With faction locks, we'd be forced to
    • Help push other factions to the gates, eliminating all PvP without much challenge.
    • Play on a dead campaign.
    • Log off or do something else.

    How does this align with people's claims of spreading factions, etc.?

    Well said.

    Faction locks, if they go live, will make ESO PvP much less attractive.
    PC EU ∙ PC NA

    'My only complaint about ball groups is that there aren't enough of them. Moar Balls.'
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  • pcar944
    pcar944
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    on one hand, on the other hand, 1 Tamriel should have never happened and we wouldn't be here today

    so just plan your characters, who and where you main, its easy

    one thing for sure, its going to be a lot easier for certain people to stack #"s and make sure they have presence 100% of a time on certain campaigns, so I fear this is going to get a lot worse as far as the map goes, people will just stack on top of other guilds to make sure they win

    all this crying about "fairness" etc and all you have to do is watch what happens on the map when 1 alliance is getting dogged by the other 2 at the same time (and no, not for dethrone)
    One Tamriel killed PVP

    DC Magicka Orc Necromancer climbing those ranks ...
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