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Bleed is killing PVP
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Sypherioth✭✭✭Sypherioth wrote: »Sypherioth wrote: »What does the master bleed do to you? You either have to get full defensive, in which case you will not win the fight, or you run away. Because you won´t be able to heal through the bleed while applying enough pressure to kill your opponent.
And please enlighten my, if that´s a lie.
And please keep in mind, that I´m only speaking about NO CP here.
Wait we are talking No CP pvp. So increased damage is even less, going from 750 dps to 375. So really you only need 1250 hps in no cp in order to offset the damage increase while using the BRP resto.
OK
Maybe go BG and just play until you met a few bleed specs. Then come talk numbers again.Sypherioth wrote: »What does the master bleed do to you? You either have to get full defensive, in which case you will not win the fight, or you run away. Because you won´t be able to heal through the bleed while applying enough pressure to kill your opponent.
And please enlighten my, if that´s a lie.
And please keep in mind, that I´m only speaking about NO CP here.
Wait we are talking No CP pvp. So increased damage is even less, going from 750 dps to 375. So really you only need 1250 hps in no cp in order to offset the damage increase while using the BRP resto.
Maybe go BG and just play until you met a few bleed specs. Then come talk numbers again.
K
You sure you met bleed spec??
To me it more looks like your the one running a bleed spec in some heavy tank/heal gear and thats why talking *** in here. Maybe your bleed does indeed just 375dps. It would explain all these assist.
So correcting misinformation is talking ***?
No it's not. I never said that. I said go BG untill you meet a few bleed specs. And you pop this screenshot. I don't get what you try to prove there. I only get you were near immortal and did many assist which suggests you used dots or aoe dmg.
To me it looks like your arguments about easy outhealing bleeds are just to save your OP bleed. I dont use masters DW and I think my blood craze is strong enough already without any bleed dmg sets etc.Edited by Sypherioth on March 22, 2019 4:42PM0 -
Chrlynsch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sypherioth wrote: »Sypherioth wrote: »Sypherioth wrote: »What does the master bleed do to you? You either have to get full defensive, in which case you will not win the fight, or you run away. Because you won´t be able to heal through the bleed while applying enough pressure to kill your opponent.
And please enlighten my, if that´s a lie.
And please keep in mind, that I´m only speaking about NO CP here.
Wait we are talking No CP pvp. So increased damage is even less, going from 750 dps to 375. So really you only need 1250 hps in no cp in order to offset the damage increase while using the BRP resto.
OK
Maybe go BG and just play until you met a few bleed specs. Then come talk numbers again.Sypherioth wrote: »What does the master bleed do to you? You either have to get full defensive, in which case you will not win the fight, or you run away. Because you won´t be able to heal through the bleed while applying enough pressure to kill your opponent.
And please enlighten my, if that´s a lie.
And please keep in mind, that I´m only speaking about NO CP here.
Wait we are talking No CP pvp. So increased damage is even less, going from 750 dps to 375. So really you only need 1250 hps in no cp in order to offset the damage increase while using the BRP resto.
Maybe go BG and just play until you met a few bleed specs. Then come talk numbers again.
K
You sure you met bleed spec??
To me it more looks like your the one running a bleed spec in some heavy tank/heal gear and thats why talking *** in here. Maybe your bleed does indeed just 375dps. It would explain all these assist.
So correcting misinformation is talking ***?
No it's not. I never said that. I said go BG untill you meet a few bleed specs. And you pop this screenshot. I don't get what you try to prove there. I only get you were near immortal and did many assist which suggests you used dots or aoe dmg.
To me it looks like your arguments about easy outhealing bleeds are just to save your OP bleed. I dont use masters DW and I think my blood craze is strong enough already without any bleed dmg sets etc.
All I have been trying to do is enlighten players with information. But too many people let their emotions get in the way.
Is a 2x set that increases dps by 375, with one ability OP? (No CP PVP)
Caius
Pack Leader of Scourge Alliance- First Fang of Hircine, The Beast of Bruma
PC NA1 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »jacobabado wrote: »For those of you calling for a tune-down of masters axes dont forget not too long ago they nerfed them to 1350 damage per tick from 1500. Any lower and it would just be an insult to everyone who worked hard for these weapons. If you're complaining about this just make some friends and run it a couple times, I pull 35k dps and didnt have trouble obtaining them.
My Dk with master axes gets about 27k* tooltip on rending slashes, and this is on a DK with mostly defensive setup. It can still push monstrously high damage values. You're telling its hard to get these weapons and also saying its easy to get. Can you at least make up your mind before posting here?
You might want to post a screenshot of that 27k tooltip and let us know how you managed to hit 5 digit weapon damage.
This reminds of that one time where people called bs on me when I said Its possible to have 20k vigors. Just so you know, this build doesn't use any kind of trick to achieve this tooltip. No minor/major berserk, no spell power cure, no gimmicks.
I believe if I used blooddrinker on a stamsorc I could see up to 30k easily.
https://imgur.com/a/EI9zLxE
Yeah this still isn't quite right. Something is bugged one way or another. In game, equipping the master dw set has never increased the tooltip of the bleed. I'm guessing that is what is happening on yours, for some reason. Maybe it did at some point, and your screenshot is old? Your tooltip on the initial attack is attainable with around 5500 weapon damage, which seems like a lot for a "defensive setup".
Except you have to proc master dw to show its effect on tooltip and this build was running troll king with around 23k resistances on medium.Edited by Ragnarock41 on March 23, 2019 1:16AM0 -
StShoot✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »My permablock tank died to a bleed dot! I can't be bothered to change my build or do anything other than drool on my block key.
Bleeds need a nerf, I should never ever die!
yeah bleeds killed s&b/s&b builds in pvp so most of the magic useres adjusted and played a restro for the shield
Same happend with Stamina, they started using trollking over bloodspawn and other monstersets
Than zos maked shields critable and changed them to scale with the resistance
-> using a single shield is usless now
and pls dont say now i have to invest cps to take less dmg from bleeds, i play on sotha.
So tell this sad potato player (me) how to adjust
The only thing i can imagen is to get a stamblade myself (cloack>dots)
and equip masteraxes+ viper krecken and join that *** ****
im talking only about ncps
Can confirm the very popular bleed meta in no-CP actually pushed me to use troll king and bleeds myself, since it seems to be the most effective way of doing damage and getting self healing, with the least sustain hit. Both of which taken a hit in the last patch. My medium armor orc still gets about 2500 hp regen with troll king up and my bleeds still pack a heavy punch, so the adjustments made were definitely for the better. This patch I actually go between blood spawn and troll king, TK doesn't feel like a must have now, which is good.
As for shield users, mainly magsorcs, I don't see them having any survivability issues lately. I'm pretty sure you can ask those petsorcs what they're running and some of them will give you a build. They seem to be doing monstrously high burst damage, high survivability and high mobility/sustain combined. To be honest, they're more scary than stamblades in the hands of a good player.
Yeah but i main a mag dk so i cant run a pet sorc build xD
i know i have other options of healing, cauterize, dragonblood (even tho that skill often costs more than it heals), burning embers.
But all those skills cant realy deal with dot builds on sotha.
My point was that shields dont counter bleeds as efficient as they used to (maybe because of the shieldchanges with murkmire, maybe because of the healing ward nerf)
Call me a noob, call me a potato but i realy dont know how i could adjust.
" Both of which taken a hit in the last patch"
I know bleeding got a 12% nerf (not the dot of rending slashes as far as i know)
But did trollking also get nerfed ? didnt saw anything
Edited by StShoot on March 23, 2019 12:27PM0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »My permablock tank died to a bleed dot! I can't be bothered to change my build or do anything other than drool on my block key.
Bleeds need a nerf, I should never ever die!
yeah bleeds killed s&b/s&b builds in pvp so most of the magic useres adjusted and played a restro for the shield
Same happend with Stamina, they started using trollking over bloodspawn and other monstersets
Than zos maked shields critable and changed them to scale with the resistance
-> using a single shield is usless now
and pls dont say now i have to invest cps to take less dmg from bleeds, i play on sotha.
So tell this sad potato player (me) how to adjust
The only thing i can imagen is to get a stamblade myself (cloack>dots)
and equip masteraxes+ viper krecken and join that *** ****
im talking only about ncps
Can confirm the very popular bleed meta in no-CP actually pushed me to use troll king and bleeds myself, since it seems to be the most effective way of doing damage and getting self healing, with the least sustain hit. Both of which taken a hit in the last patch. My medium armor orc still gets about 2500 hp regen with troll king up and my bleeds still pack a heavy punch, so the adjustments made were definitely for the better. This patch I actually go between blood spawn and troll king, TK doesn't feel like a must have now, which is good.
As for shield users, mainly magsorcs, I don't see them having any survivability issues lately. I'm pretty sure you can ask those petsorcs what they're running and some of them will give you a build. They seem to be doing monstrously high burst damage, high survivability and high mobility/sustain combined. To be honest, they're more scary than stamblades in the hands of a good player.
Yeah but i main a mag dk so i cant run a pet sorc build xD
i know i have other options of healing, cauterize, dragonblood (even tho that skill often costs more than it heals), burning embers.
But all those skills cant realy deal with dot builds on sotha.
My point was that shields dont counter bleeds as efficient as they used to (maybe because of the shieldchanges with murkmire, maybe because of the healing ward nerf)
Call me a noob, call me a potato but i realy dont know how i could adjust.
" Both of which taken a hit in the last patch"
I know bleeding got a 12% nerf (not the dot of rending slashes as far as i know)
But did trollking also get nerfed ? didnt saw anything
HP regen builds got indirectly nerfed by the removal of hp regen from racials, which means if you used a race with hp regen before you now have %20 less hp regen which can be a big loss depending on your setup.1 -
Sypherioth✭✭✭Sypherioth wrote: »Sypherioth wrote: »Sypherioth wrote: »What does the master bleed do to you? You either have to get full defensive, in which case you will not win the fight, or you run away. Because you won´t be able to heal through the bleed while applying enough pressure to kill your opponent.
And please enlighten my, if that´s a lie.
And please keep in mind, that I´m only speaking about NO CP here.
Wait we are talking No CP pvp. So increased damage is even less, going from 750 dps to 375. So really you only need 1250 hps in no cp in order to offset the damage increase while using the BRP resto.
OK
Maybe go BG and just play until you met a few bleed specs. Then come talk numbers again.Sypherioth wrote: »What does the master bleed do to you? You either have to get full defensive, in which case you will not win the fight, or you run away. Because you won´t be able to heal through the bleed while applying enough pressure to kill your opponent.
And please enlighten my, if that´s a lie.
And please keep in mind, that I´m only speaking about NO CP here.
Wait we are talking No CP pvp. So increased damage is even less, going from 750 dps to 375. So really you only need 1250 hps in no cp in order to offset the damage increase while using the BRP resto.
Maybe go BG and just play until you met a few bleed specs. Then come talk numbers again.
K
You sure you met bleed spec??
To me it more looks like your the one running a bleed spec in some heavy tank/heal gear and thats why talking *** in here. Maybe your bleed does indeed just 375dps. It would explain all these assist.
So correcting misinformation is talking ***?
No it's not. I never said that. I said go BG untill you meet a few bleed specs. And you pop this screenshot. I don't get what you try to prove there. I only get you were near immortal and did many assist which suggests you used dots or aoe dmg.
To me it looks like your arguments about easy outhealing bleeds are just to save your OP bleed. I dont use masters DW and I think my blood craze is strong enough already without any bleed dmg sets etc.
All I have been trying to do is enlighten players with information. But too many people let their emotions get in the way.
Is a 2x set that increases dps by 375, with one ability OP? (No CP PVP)
Yes OP it is in no CP PVP. in CP pvp you can have more dmg reductions against it. My blood craze does the same dps in no CP BG without critting and 4k+ weapon dmg and 30kstam and im not even specced for bleeds. I could have 34% increased bleed dmg on top of that and your master weapons. Do the math about what this one ability does in total now when it DOESNT crit.
Also one crit of my blood craze is 2k easily. Whats a blood craze masters weapons and bleed set crit? 3.5k+ per tick? thats no problem in BG? That means your dot just critted for like half the dmg the 2hand ulti does...
Edited by Sypherioth on March 23, 2019 7:04PM0 -
Chrlynsch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sypherioth wrote: »Sypherioth wrote: »Sypherioth wrote: »Sypherioth wrote: »What does the master bleed do to you? You either have to get full defensive, in which case you will not win the fight, or you run away. Because you won´t be able to heal through the bleed while applying enough pressure to kill your opponent.
And please enlighten my, if that´s a lie.
And please keep in mind, that I´m only speaking about NO CP here.
Wait we are talking No CP pvp. So increased damage is even less, going from 750 dps to 375. So really you only need 1250 hps in no cp in order to offset the damage increase while using the BRP resto.
OK
Maybe go BG and just play until you met a few bleed specs. Then come talk numbers again.Sypherioth wrote: »What does the master bleed do to you? You either have to get full defensive, in which case you will not win the fight, or you run away. Because you won´t be able to heal through the bleed while applying enough pressure to kill your opponent.
And please enlighten my, if that´s a lie.
And please keep in mind, that I´m only speaking about NO CP here.
Wait we are talking No CP pvp. So increased damage is even less, going from 750 dps to 375. So really you only need 1250 hps in no cp in order to offset the damage increase while using the BRP resto.
Maybe go BG and just play until you met a few bleed specs. Then come talk numbers again.
K
You sure you met bleed spec??
To me it more looks like your the one running a bleed spec in some heavy tank/heal gear and thats why talking *** in here. Maybe your bleed does indeed just 375dps. It would explain all these assist.
So correcting misinformation is talking ***?
No it's not. I never said that. I said go BG untill you meet a few bleed specs. And you pop this screenshot. I don't get what you try to prove there. I only get you were near immortal and did many assist which suggests you used dots or aoe dmg.
To me it looks like your arguments about easy outhealing bleeds are just to save your OP bleed. I dont use masters DW and I think my blood craze is strong enough already without any bleed dmg sets etc.
All I have been trying to do is enlighten players with information. But too many people let their emotions get in the way.
Is a 2x set that increases dps by 375, with one ability OP? (No CP PVP)
Yes OP it is in no CP PVP. in CP pvp you can have more dmg reductions against it. My blood craze does the same dps in no CP BG without critting and 4k+ weapon dmg and 30kstam and im not even specced for bleeds. I could have 34% increased bleed dmg on top of that and your master weapons. Do the math about what this one ability does in total now when it DOESNT crit.
Also one crit of my blood craze is 2k easily. Whats a blood craze masters weapons and bleed set crit? 3.5k+ per tick? thats no problem in BG? That means your dot just critted for like half the dmg the 2hand ulti does...
Wouldn't a build that focuses so heavily in bleed damage suffer from reduced healing/ survivability?Caius
Pack Leader of Scourge Alliance- First Fang of Hircine, The Beast of Bruma
PC NA0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sypherioth wrote: »Sypherioth wrote: »Sypherioth wrote: »Sypherioth wrote: »What does the master bleed do to you? You either have to get full defensive, in which case you will not win the fight, or you run away. Because you won´t be able to heal through the bleed while applying enough pressure to kill your opponent.
And please enlighten my, if that´s a lie.
And please keep in mind, that I´m only speaking about NO CP here.
Wait we are talking No CP pvp. So increased damage is even less, going from 750 dps to 375. So really you only need 1250 hps in no cp in order to offset the damage increase while using the BRP resto.
OK
Maybe go BG and just play until you met a few bleed specs. Then come talk numbers again.Sypherioth wrote: »What does the master bleed do to you? You either have to get full defensive, in which case you will not win the fight, or you run away. Because you won´t be able to heal through the bleed while applying enough pressure to kill your opponent.
And please enlighten my, if that´s a lie.
And please keep in mind, that I´m only speaking about NO CP here.
Wait we are talking No CP pvp. So increased damage is even less, going from 750 dps to 375. So really you only need 1250 hps in no cp in order to offset the damage increase while using the BRP resto.
Maybe go BG and just play until you met a few bleed specs. Then come talk numbers again.
K
You sure you met bleed spec??
To me it more looks like your the one running a bleed spec in some heavy tank/heal gear and thats why talking *** in here. Maybe your bleed does indeed just 375dps. It would explain all these assist.
So correcting misinformation is talking ***?
No it's not. I never said that. I said go BG untill you meet a few bleed specs. And you pop this screenshot. I don't get what you try to prove there. I only get you were near immortal and did many assist which suggests you used dots or aoe dmg.
To me it looks like your arguments about easy outhealing bleeds are just to save your OP bleed. I dont use masters DW and I think my blood craze is strong enough already without any bleed dmg sets etc.
All I have been trying to do is enlighten players with information. But too many people let their emotions get in the way.
Is a 2x set that increases dps by 375, with one ability OP? (No CP PVP)
Yes OP it is in no CP PVP. in CP pvp you can have more dmg reductions against it. My blood craze does the same dps in no CP BG without critting and 4k+ weapon dmg and 30kstam and im not even specced for bleeds. I could have 34% increased bleed dmg on top of that and your master weapons. Do the math about what this one ability does in total now when it DOESNT crit.
Also one crit of my blood craze is 2k easily. Whats a blood craze masters weapons and bleed set crit? 3.5k+ per tick? thats no problem in BG? That means your dot just critted for like half the dmg the 2hand ulti does...
Wouldn't a build that focuses so heavily in bleed damage suffer from reduced healing/ survivability?
Not really, first off bleeds are dots and are easy to apply (meaning it causes constant pressure without needing actions)
That and damage and heals both scale the same0 -
Destyran✭✭✭✭✭Sypherioth wrote: »Sypherioth wrote: »Sypherioth wrote: »What does the master bleed do to you? You either have to get full defensive, in which case you will not win the fight, or you run away. Because you won´t be able to heal through the bleed while applying enough pressure to kill your opponent.
And please enlighten my, if that´s a lie.
And please keep in mind, that I´m only speaking about NO CP here.
Wait we are talking No CP pvp. So increased damage is even less, going from 750 dps to 375. So really you only need 1250 hps in no cp in order to offset the damage increase while using the BRP resto.
OK
Maybe go BG and just play until you met a few bleed specs. Then come talk numbers again.Sypherioth wrote: »What does the master bleed do to you? You either have to get full defensive, in which case you will not win the fight, or you run away. Because you won´t be able to heal through the bleed while applying enough pressure to kill your opponent.
And please enlighten my, if that´s a lie.
And please keep in mind, that I´m only speaking about NO CP here.
Wait we are talking No CP pvp. So increased damage is even less, going from 750 dps to 375. So really you only need 1250 hps in no cp in order to offset the damage increase while using the BRP resto.
Maybe go BG and just play until you met a few bleed specs. Then come talk numbers again.
K
You sure you met bleed spec??
To me it more looks like your the one running a bleed spec in some heavy tank/heal gear and thats why talking *** in here. Maybe your bleed does indeed just 375dps. It would explain all these assist.
So correcting misinformation is talking ***?
No it's not. I never said that. I said go BG untill you meet a few bleed specs. And you pop this screenshot. I don't get what you try to prove there. I only get you were near immortal and did many assist which suggests you used dots or aoe dmg.
To me it looks like your arguments about easy outhealing bleeds are just to save your OP bleed. I dont use masters DW and I think my blood craze is strong enough already without any bleed dmg sets etc.
All I have been trying to do is enlighten players with information. But too many people let their emotions get in the way.
Is a 2x set that increases dps by 375, with one ability OP? (No CP PVP)
I have seen a post where even the deadly strike set doesn’t warrant master DW or vma daggers used because the damage is poor and 2 k ticks every two seconds when the have to sacrifice bleeds isn’t op in pvp in my opinion. I barely notice bleeds in pvpand if they do they normally die quick because they can’t kill as the bleeds waste their slots and they can’t have much utility skills. Just sounds like you need a defensive set.0 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Sypherioth wrote: »Sypherioth wrote: »Sypherioth wrote: »What does the master bleed do to you? You either have to get full defensive, in which case you will not win the fight, or you run away. Because you won´t be able to heal through the bleed while applying enough pressure to kill your opponent.
And please enlighten my, if that´s a lie.
And please keep in mind, that I´m only speaking about NO CP here.
Wait we are talking No CP pvp. So increased damage is even less, going from 750 dps to 375. So really you only need 1250 hps in no cp in order to offset the damage increase while using the BRP resto.
OK
Maybe go BG and just play until you met a few bleed specs. Then come talk numbers again.Sypherioth wrote: »What does the master bleed do to you? You either have to get full defensive, in which case you will not win the fight, or you run away. Because you won´t be able to heal through the bleed while applying enough pressure to kill your opponent.
And please enlighten my, if that´s a lie.
And please keep in mind, that I´m only speaking about NO CP here.
Wait we are talking No CP pvp. So increased damage is even less, going from 750 dps to 375. So really you only need 1250 hps in no cp in order to offset the damage increase while using the BRP resto.
Maybe go BG and just play until you met a few bleed specs. Then come talk numbers again.
K
You sure you met bleed spec??
To me it more looks like your the one running a bleed spec in some heavy tank/heal gear and thats why talking *** in here. Maybe your bleed does indeed just 375dps. It would explain all these assist.
So correcting misinformation is talking ***?
No it's not. I never said that. I said go BG untill you meet a few bleed specs. And you pop this screenshot. I don't get what you try to prove there. I only get you were near immortal and did many assist which suggests you used dots or aoe dmg.
To me it looks like your arguments about easy outhealing bleeds are just to save your OP bleed. I dont use masters DW and I think my blood craze is strong enough already without any bleed dmg sets etc.
All I have been trying to do is enlighten players with information. But too many people let their emotions get in the way.
Is a 2x set that increases dps by 375, with one ability OP? (No CP PVP)
I have seen a post where even the deadly strike set doesn’t warrant master DW or vma daggers used because the damage is poor and 2 k ticks every two seconds when the have to sacrifice bleeds isn’t op in pvp in my opinion. I barely notice bleeds in pvpand if they do they normally die quick because they can’t kill as the bleeds waste their slots and they can’t have much utility skills. Just sounds like you need a defensive set.
*cough* I'm not on the "bleeds too stronk!!1" train but what is that? If anything they get two extra sources of damage from passive, just for slotting an axe. And to say bleed builds can't kill is flat out wrong. What do you think why people ride the bleed meta?0
