Bleed is killing PVP

bardx86

usmcjdking wrote: »

Can you imagine the outrage if Destructive Reach applied a 10k tooltip dot that ignored resistances, which on every damage instance had a chance to proc another 10k dot?

Please and thank you!

pieratsos

Minno wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Is it just confusing death recaps or is the Rending bleed effect really this powerful?



By all appearances it seems like a bigger issue than proc sets.

Don't forget rending has an initial tooltip applied. You also took 8 seconds worth of damage, and anyone of those ticks can crit (and for lot, since percentage based mitigation against a single DMG tooltip is not as powerful as a percentage off a giant number).

I'd imagine, the first applied hit was heavily reduced (by armor+mitigation because it's physical DMG not a bleed) but each tick was dealing a 1.30 modifier (1.8 versus 3300 resists) assuming you have no impreg/trans.

What's the highest rending tooltip someone can get? 2.5-3k each second? If so, and it crits, that's 3250 on that tick, then it ignores armor so that gets ignored in the calc. Then if you only had Hardy/thick skin, you are only reducing that tooltip down to 1170. 1170 times 8 = 9360.

If you had major/minor, that crit turns into 807.3 x 8 = 6458.

If you had 4080k crit resist, that 1.3 modifer turns into 1.2, so 2.5k tooltip turns into 3k. 3k turns into 1080 after battlespirit+Hardy+thick skin for a total of 8640 (this is looking closer to the screenshot actually) But if youadd major/minor protection, 745.2 x8= 5961.

Conclusion:
Stop being lazy and add major/minor protection lol

So basically your conclusion isn't even a conclusion, Its just you assuming its possible to hit 4k crit resist in non-cp(surely you can run impreg and have someone provide transmutation, but if that is going to be super effective against any crit, not just bleeds) and also assuming everyone is playing a warden.

You're taking a 8k bleed recap(which is pretty low as far as what I've personally seen) and you're acting like it happened in CP campaign. If this isn't bending the facts, Idk what is. Posts like this one is a good way of making yourself sound ignorant.

So stop playing in nCP?
Nerfing bleeds isn't the answer, increasing the crit resists/major protection availability is.

But what do I know, I just play ESO casually.

So let me get this straight, the solution to bleeds is to make everyone a tank with a ton of crit resists and major protection?
*Rollseyes*

My solution is to not touch them at all because you already have those tools lol.

Not that i agree to leave bleeds as is, anyone who wants skilled gameplay and isnt biased knows that they need an overhaul, but good to know that you are not actually suggesting to increase the availability of major protection and crit resists cause thats goes straight into the top 10 list of "most horrible suggestion ever".

pzschrek

usmcjdking wrote: »

Can you imagine the outrage if Destructive Reach applied a 10k tooltip dot that ignored resistances, which on every damage instance had a chance to proc another 10k dot?

Also imagine the outrage if stam’s snare removal tools had the same penalties as mag(mist form). Can you even? Lol.

There’s a lot of imbalance the community just kinda accepts at this point.

Minno

pieratsos wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Is it just confusing death recaps or is the Rending bleed effect really this powerful?



By all appearances it seems like a bigger issue than proc sets.

Don't forget rending has an initial tooltip applied. You also took 8 seconds worth of damage, and anyone of those ticks can crit (and for lot, since percentage based mitigation against a single DMG tooltip is not as powerful as a percentage off a giant number).

I'd imagine, the first applied hit was heavily reduced (by armor+mitigation because it's physical DMG not a bleed) but each tick was dealing a 1.30 modifier (1.8 versus 3300 resists) assuming you have no impreg/trans.

What's the highest rending tooltip someone can get? 2.5-3k each second? If so, and it crits, that's 3250 on that tick, then it ignores armor so that gets ignored in the calc. Then if you only had Hardy/thick skin, you are only reducing that tooltip down to 1170. 1170 times 8 = 9360.

If you had major/minor, that crit turns into 807.3 x 8 = 6458.

If you had 4080k crit resist, that 1.3 modifer turns into 1.2, so 2.5k tooltip turns into 3k. 3k turns into 1080 after battlespirit+Hardy+thick skin for a total of 8640 (this is looking closer to the screenshot actually) But if youadd major/minor protection, 745.2 x8= 5961.

Conclusion:
Stop being lazy and add major/minor protection lol

So basically your conclusion isn't even a conclusion, Its just you assuming its possible to hit 4k crit resist in non-cp(surely you can run impreg and have someone provide transmutation, but if that is going to be super effective against any crit, not just bleeds) and also assuming everyone is playing a warden.

You're taking a 8k bleed recap(which is pretty low as far as what I've personally seen) and you're acting like it happened in CP campaign. If this isn't bending the facts, Idk what is. Posts like this one is a good way of making yourself sound ignorant.

So stop playing in nCP?
Nerfing bleeds isn't the answer, increasing the crit resists/major protection availability is.

But what do I know, I just play ESO casually.

So let me get this straight, the solution to bleeds is to make everyone a tank with a ton of crit resists and major protection?
*Rollseyes*

My solution is to not touch them at all because you already have those tools lol.

Not that i agree to leave bleeds as is, anyone who wants skilled gameplay and isnt biased knows that they need an overhaul, but good to know that you are not actually suggesting to increase the availability of major protection and crit resists cause thats goes straight into the top 10 list of "most horrible suggestion ever".

I mean I do, but through crit resist jewelry traits. So you give up offense to get that extra defense.

But otherwise we have trans/impreg and pirate Skelton/black rose DW for the basically free major protection.

nckg84

Why bleeds and bow spam is destroying this game is because it is easy mode. No skill involved, no timing or combo's. Those defending it have a better place in hello kitty online then this game.

Bleed damage should be given the same treatment as the murkmire shield changes. Then buff em a bit and you can have niche builds.

Escorpiao_Noturno

ZOS.. fix DOTS and bleeds.. TOO OP.
Or make Purge skill from support skill line remove 5 or more negative effects.

Escorpiao_Noturno

13k bleed damage on a full tank.

https://imgur.com/7p8DVDZ

Escorpiao_Noturno

cant delete post.. sorry

Brutusmax1mus

@minno most builds do not run 4.5k crit resist without external help

Rolexdt

Bg last night I had a stamplar with 2 master axes spamming jabs and rending slashes. 11k-13k bleeds and he was dropping just about anyone at will and that's just the rending slashes bleed damage. Nevermind the other cancer.

This is just plain stupid. Bottom line is that pvp in this game is getting dumbed down so that skill matters not only equipment and chance.

Iskiab

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Patro wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

Stop Permablocking.

Your welcome.

You don't understand. Block is the only thing that sets a dk alive.

I've given up on blocking long time ago. Dodge rolls are the king of mitigation.

Can't talk for magDks because magDks are soulless pyromaniacs so...

Currently roll dodge is much more effective than blocking.

I already know. SnB is in a pathetic state for open world.

Unsustainable, built in self snare when you block and you still eat tons of damage anyways.

The mobility nerfs also played a big role in this because blocking makes you a sitting duck now. Literally.

This is silly. S&B is strong, if you’re expecting to survive vs 4 from blocking then no, but that doesn’t make it a weak skill line.

Ragnarock41

Iskiab wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Patro wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

Stop Permablocking.

Your welcome.

You don't understand. Block is the only thing that sets a dk alive.

I've given up on blocking long time ago. Dodge rolls are the king of mitigation.

Can't talk for magDks because magDks are soulless pyromaniacs so...

Currently roll dodge is much more effective than blocking.

I already know. SnB is in a pathetic state for open world.

Unsustainable, built in self snare when you block and you still eat tons of damage anyways.

The mobility nerfs also played a big role in this because blocking makes you a sitting duck now. Literally.

This is silly. S&B is strong, if you’re expecting to survive vs 4 from blocking then no, but that doesn’t make it a weak skill line.

The only silly thing was trol king- master dw bleed builds that had better defense and better offense than a blood spawn-SnB Dk. It took a nerf this patch, both TK and bleeds, but don't tell me a single bleed tick hitting harder than heroic slash was balanced in any way.

Strider__Roshin

Bleeds are supposed to be a counter against heavy, but unfortunately they handle them the best due to superior self healing. ZOS needs to make it so that passive only works when the healing is from an external source.

ecru

11,870 damage from 5 ticks of rending in a BG still seems a little overtuned.

D0PAMINE

I wonder if 2 similar bleed builds fighting each other would rrsult in a double KO. Is that even possible?

Ragnarock41

Daus wrote: »

Bleeds are supposed to be a counter against heavy, but unfortunately they handle them the best due to superior self healing. ZOS needs to make it so that passive only works when the healing is from an external source.

Its the classic defence line against anything that ever overperformed though. Yes something that hits hard and ignores defence is obviously gonna hurt tanks, and everything else along with them. You know what else was there to counter heavy armor tanks? Sloads. Old viper. knight slayer. You see the common thing yet?

If we are to counter high resistance heavy armor tanks, the answer is obvious, increase penetration , It was never wise to nerf penetration by %50 but they did it anyways. But obviously re-buffing pen that creates PvE problems.

Thanatos_inside

Bleeds are good against any type of armor. its really stupid. Master duasl just ez mode

barshemm

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Bleeds are supposed to be a counter against heavy, but unfortunately they handle them the best due to superior self healing. ZOS needs to make it so that passive only works when the healing is from an external source.

Its the classic defence line against anything that ever overperformed though. Yes something that hits hard and ignores defence is obviously gonna hurt tanks, and everything else along with them. You know what else was there to counter heavy armor tanks? Sloads. Old viper. knight slayer. You see the common thing yet?

If we are to counter high resistance heavy armor tanks, the answer is obvious, increase penetration , It was never wise to nerf penetration by %50 but they did it anyways. But obviously re-buffing pen that creates PvE problems.

But buffing pen back up just basically negates light/medium armor.

TheBonesXXX

Damage and Resistances are too far apart.

All these suggestions will kill off a playstyle.

StShoot

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

Damage and Resistances are too far apart.

All these suggestions will kill off a playstyle.

But is that realy a playstyle we want to keep in the game ? xD

Chilly-McFreeze

StShoot wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

Damage and Resistances are too far apart.

All these suggestions will kill off a playstyle.

But is that realy a playstyle we want to keep in the game ? xD

Well, you could also ask some people if they want to keep 1-shot burst combos in the game too. Different people, different opinions, different playstyles, you know.

WeylandLabs

@TheBonesXXX Agree completely Im wondering if its on purpose to play other classes. Obviously being nerfed so much you are forced to play other styles.

And ive been nerfed 10x slowly and consistantly over 2 years its pretty crazy.

Sypherioth

Bleeds are fine. The master weapons are the problem. especially with deadly strike etc. My tooltip on bleed is 10k over 9 sec. is 1k per sec. Compare with masters weapons... When those masters weapons bleeds crit its to much.

WeylandLabs

Wow you guys are still complaining about bleeds lol it's been nerfed 6 times over 2 years. At this point is a l2p issue ... aka stop block fighting !

Iskiab

Seriously. Stop relying on shields and get some self healing, this is a total L2P issue.

Sypherioth

Iskiab wrote: »

Seriously. Stop relying on shields and get some self healing, this is a total L2P issue.

You ever seen the ticks of a godly buffed bleed with masters weapon?? In BG they are to strong imo. Get some self healing. Ye go for 4k hps you might be able to survive trough the bleed plus rest of dmg added from 1 player only. Not that bleeds itself are the problem. It's just the big buff from masters weapon

Sypherioth

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

Wow you guys are still complaining about bleeds lol it's been nerfed 6 times over 2 years. At this point is a l2p issue ... aka stop block fighting !

Yes bleeds are. But you can get 2 sets which increase your bleeds for 35% if im correct. Add that onto your bleeds paired with masters weapons. The stats these sets have are pretty good for weapon dmg etc to. Maybe in CP it's fine but in BG it seems a bit to strong. There is almost nothing to reduce that dmg. The HPS you need to achieve to not feel it will mean you have to go full hp regen tank gear. Now imagina for those squishy classes what it means.

WeylandLabs

@Sypherioth Agree but that's a balance issue - CP vs Non CP As on this post "Bleeds are killing PvP "Cp not an issue for the past 8 months non CP maybe ya but i feel that's the reward of completing VDSA and VMA VBRP and other vet content.

Non Cp is actually day 1 of eso and if your in bgs and those players have completed those arenas thus rewarded with OP weapons as it should be. In CP it's actually a joke were it's at the resistances are so high vs dot damage and bleeds been nerfed so much even if it ignores the resistances you have blocking sets or sets that reduce damage significantly it does nothing anymore. If you still struggle with bleeds inside of CP than its 100% a l2p.

Iskiab

Do you think the issue’s larger in non-CP? I was starting to think the issue was defensive CP related since I do BGs and play non-CP cyrodiil and don’t think they’re an issue.

techprince

Rending slashes with Master axe does bs amount of damage.