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[Class Rep] Dragonknight Feedback Thread

  • BlackMadara
    BlackMadara
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    Ash cloud and morphs are really interesting skills but have such a small range, it is hard to justify their use in pvp. It is almost always more useful to use wall of elements with an ice staff for an aoe damage and snare. Increasing the radius by 1-2 meters would allow more room for a "stand your ground" playstyle, at least bringing it to the same range as talons. Reducing the snare can be done for compensation for said buff, probably to 50-60%.
  • SaintSubwayy
    SaintSubwayy
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    Ash cloud and morphs are really interesting skills but have such a small range, it is hard to justify their use in pvp. It is almost always more useful to use wall of elements with an ice staff for an aoe damage and snare. Increasing the radius by 1-2 meters would allow more room for a "stand your ground" playstyle, at least bringing it to the same range as talons. Reducing the snare can be done for compensation for said buff, probably to 50-60%.

    Well its like sorcs LL...which you dont see beeing used often in pvp aswell.
    But thats a problem for the sorc thread

    Personally I think adding a synergy to ashcloud abd its morphs may be a good change to give magdk (maybe even stam dks) a reason to ve considered for a raidgroup
    Theres ofc the real possibility to throw it on a tank and have him provide the synergy, but I think that another highcost skill might be too much for the tank to also use...and he need to drop another skill for it
    PC EU
    vAA HM / vHRC HM / vSO HM / vMoL HM / vHoF HM / vAS HM / vCR HM / vMSA

    Flawless Conqueror / Immortal Redeemer / Master Angler / PVP Noob^^

    Exceed Gaming
  • BlackMadara
    BlackMadara
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    Ash cloud and morphs are really interesting skills but have such a small range, it is hard to justify their use in pvp. It is almost always more useful to use wall of elements with an ice staff for an aoe damage and snare. Increasing the radius by 1-2 meters would allow more room for a "stand your ground" playstyle, at least bringing it to the same range as talons. Reducing the snare can be done for compensation for said buff, probably to 50-60%.

    Well its like sorcs LL...which you dont see beeing used often in pvp aswell.
    But thats a problem for the sorc thread

    Personally I think adding a synergy to ashcloud abd its morphs may be a good change to give magdk (maybe even stam dks) a reason to ve considered for a raidgroup
    Theres ofc the real possibility to throw it on a tank and have him provide the synergy, but I think that another highcost skill might be too much for the tank to also use...and he need to drop another skill for it

    I was thinking more on the lines of bring ash cloud more inline with other aoe DK skills or the new melee range increase. Talons is 6m, inhale is 8m, and melee range is 7. This leaves ash clouds 5m rather lacking. It is rather hard to play a stand your ground fantasy if one tries to combo ash cloud, talons, and inhale, but the enemy is outside of the range of cloud, or even talons, when using inhale. The snare zoning utility of ash cloud is also diminished with such a small area. Increasing the range too much and keeping the snare the same strength would be problematic, however.

    A synergy might take away from the power budget of the spell, especially with a synergy already on talons and banner. Granted, many pve tanks may not use banner, and talons, iirc, can't root bosses. Ash cloud also seems more useful on a dps or healer either way, from function.
  • Jamdarius
    Jamdarius
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    I would add instead of 600 health bonus to Dunmers a passive that works like 5th effect of sun set adding 400 spell dmg to flame based attacks.

    I would change Igneous Weapons to also recover highest resources while skill is active (so that it will be somewhat useful morph not like now) and add major brutality to molten weapons so that we would have a choice to make sustain vs more heavy attack damage.

    I would add synergy to ash cloud/cinder storm (any kind would do - we need it, prefferable some kind of DPS group buff to make them more needed in end game PvE content)

    I would change obsidian shard - either lower the cost to ~2,5k or leave cost as it is but on impact when healing causing AoE heal for half of what we healed main target (obsidian shard would become grenade like missile shattering on impact and stabbing allies in the area with our love <3)

    I would create stam/poison whip morph, I still do not understand why there are so few skills for stam on a "Knight" type class.

    PS: Would be awesome to finally have execution skill. And also increase 1 morph of Fragmented Shield so that it would not be considered useless and destroy tanks casting their own shield version.
    Edited by Jamdarius on February 5, 2019 8:09AM
  • MassTerror23
    From a pve standpoint stamDK DD doesn’t have a utility role in trials or group play besides being a tank. Can some type of utility be thought of for the stamDK DDs out there because we’re a dying species.
  • John_Falstaff
    John_Falstaff
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    @MassTerror23 , theoretically, our "group buff" is supposed to be Minor Brutality, but for stamDK, it's difficult to bring that buff without wasting some of own, personal damage away (skill slot, extra skill cast, and base magicka regen isn't enough to sustain both FoO and Igneous Weapons). So it automatically falls to tank. I think sorcs are in same spot with their group offering - no easy way to give it to the group while keeping on doing their usual DD thing.
  • SaintSubwayy
    SaintSubwayy
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    Jamdarius wrote: »
    I would add instead of 600 health bonus to Dunmers a passive that works like 5th effect of sun set adding 400 spell dmg to flame based attacks.

    I would change Igneous Weapons to also recover highest resources while skill is active (so that it will be somewhat useful morph not like now) and add major brutality to molten weapons so that we would have a choice to make sustain vs more heavy attack damage.

    I would add synergy to ash cloud/cinder storm (any kind would do - we need it, prefferable some kind of DPS group buff to make them more needed in end game PvE content)

    I would change obsidian shard - either lower the cost to ~2,5k or leave cost as it is but on impact when healing causing AoE heal for half of what we healed main target (obsidian shard would become grenade like missile shattering on impact and stabbing allies in the area with our love <3)

    I would create stam/poison whip morph, I still do not understand why there are so few skills for stam on a "Knight" type class.

    PS: Would be awesome to finally have execution skill. And also increase 1 morph of Fragmented Shield so that it would not be considered useless and destroy tanks casting their own shield version.

    Ashcloud and morph synergy -> Yes please, already suggested that in various other threads, should help magkDK alot in terms of utility (but then again just throw it on tank gg )

    whip is hard to change, since both morphs are idely used, however merging the 2 Whips into 1 magicka morph, and give the other morph to a stam abiliy seems doable
    Maybe dont let it procc in PVE (offbalance proc), but when the in a dungeon or trial it will grant 150SD while slotted.

    Execute...well they should make it Posion and fire based execute.
    Something like when an enemie is burning or poisoned, your fire and poison skills deal increased dmg, getting stronger the lower the health get.
    Same as new sorc passive, but other way arround.
    PC EU
    vAA HM / vHRC HM / vSO HM / vMoL HM / vHoF HM / vAS HM / vCR HM / vMSA

    Flawless Conqueror / Immortal Redeemer / Master Angler / PVP Noob^^

    Exceed Gaming
  • vesselwiththepestle
    Adding a Synergy to Ash Clould would be great for the weak healing morph. Even on my healer I went for the damage morph...

    The synergy could be either burst damage (Eruption) or a burst heal (Cinder Storm), not much, but SOMETHING.

    Increasing the radius of Eruption would be great, too, but I'd prefer increasing the range to 28m on Eruption (while increased radius would be even more important for Cinder Storm, honestly the radius should be the same like Grand Healing: 8 meters).

    Is any DK healer actually using Cinder Storm and prefers it over Eruption? Probably if you are using SPC and want to get as much healing sources as possible to achieve overhealing.
  • MassTerror23
    @MassTerror23 , theoretically, our "group buff" is supposed to be Minor Brutality, but for stamDK, it's difficult to bring that buff without wasting some of own, personal damage away (skill slot, extra skill cast, and base magicka regen isn't enough to sustain both FoO and Igneous Weapons). So it automatically falls to tank. I think sorcs are in same spot with their group offering - no easy way to give it to the group while keeping on doing their usual DD thing.

    I run eruption and can sustain FoO and eruption perfectly fine. I cast eruption every other rotation and FoO every rotation. As far as damage is concerned I parse higher with eruption than other bar setups that don’t have eruption. However, tanks run igneous shield so they supply to group minor brut anyways, so we still don’t give a utility to the group
    Edited by MassTerror23 on February 11, 2019 7:55PM
  • Davadin
    Davadin
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    My top 2 pain point are the lack of:
    1. Stamina based damage dealing execution skill.
    2. Stamina based group buff.

    For 1. Green claw is nice and all, and the green stinky breath is really good. But I'm tired of relying on wep skills to kill people... Not just to DoT.
    For 2. Ok, so we got the exploding rock, which, as a bonus, gives me Minor Brut. That's a good team buff. We also have the flaming sword that give buff to heavy attacks. but...those are Magickas.... I need something to help me out without diminishing my minimum magicka storage....

    So in essence, my problem with DK is when we opt for stamina build, we are reliant on weapon skills and guilds skill for damage and buff....
    Davadin - Nord Dragon Knight - NA Megaserver
  • Madcap_Symphony
    For DK tanking we are missing out on the Combustion passive which would be really nice to help with our sustain. Most the morphs we use, such as Choking Talons and Hardened Armor, only deal “magic” damage and therefor don’t proc the passive.
    Edited by Madcap_Symphony on February 18, 2019 6:35AM
  • Draxys
    Draxys
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    They should just delete stone fist at this point and make it a stam spammable or execute or something. It’s literally worthless past level 10. It’s a prime opportunity to solve at least one of the classes current issues.
    2013

    rip decibel
  • Beffagorn
    Beffagorn
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    People still post in this thread? Lol.

    There's 26pages of feedback that have been ignored and not a single suggestion was ever implemented or anything done about the "top 2 pain points" since this thread was created. Give up and play a stamden/stamblade if you're a stamdk or a magplar if you're a magdk.
  • SaintSubwayy
    SaintSubwayy
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    Beffagorn wrote: »
    People still post in this thread? Lol.

    There's 26pages of feedback that have been ignored and not a single suggestion was ever implemented or anything done about the "top 2 pain points" since this thread was created. Give up and play a stamden/stamblade if you're a stamdk or a magplar if you're a magdk.

    well jeah, said truth about nearly all classrep feedback threads....so many good ideas on attempts to get a bit more balance in, but its ignored in 99.99% of the cases :disappointed:
    PC EU
    vAA HM / vHRC HM / vSO HM / vMoL HM / vHoF HM / vAS HM / vCR HM / vMSA

    Flawless Conqueror / Immortal Redeemer / Master Angler / PVP Noob^^

    Exceed Gaming
  • John_Falstaff
    John_Falstaff
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    @MassTerror23 , Eruption is a bit easier to sustain than Igneous, but I tried it many times and it still turns out to be a damage loss on sDK to use it (it doesn't do that much damage since it scales off max magicka), the only benefit is that it offloads some stamina drain. I couldn't find a way to give Minor Brutality in some ways that also benefits my own damage compared to other alternatives - Igneous or Eruption, it always turns out to be a sacrifice for the sDK who decided to bring the buff to the group. So it falls to tank, yes. I'd rather see that buff attached to Ardent Flame line, where damage skills are.

    But yes, I'm surprised that some spark of life is still kindling in this thread. I have since surrendered to my fate and, as a part of the program of countering ZOS' neglect of DKs and DW nerfs, have created a stamblade copy of my sDK self. Higher damage. Engaging and fun rotation (which I'm still getting grasp on, but already hitting way higher than I could on sDK). Fun of using mostly own class skills. Stupid burst. No issues giving extra critical to whole group by simply doing damage. Life is good.*

    * Well until they've nerfed khajiits on PTS - what can I do, ZOS always will keep finding ways of messing up all the good things, it's how they roll.
  • ffyre
    ffyre
    @John_Falstaff I'm in the same boat. I normally run Camo Hunter as a never-used buff skill on my DW bar for extra crit, but tried some parses swapping it for eruption over the weekend and every time I got lower DPS. I was really hoping it would work out, but the mag sustain on my khajiit could barely keep enough mag to use FoO every rotation when using eruption every other time. I do plan on trying it again once Wrathstone drops to see if the khajiiti resource changes make sustain any easier.

    But yeah. Really, really hoping that crit nerf to khajiit winds up either being swapped or a "kind of buff" to khajiit stamDK since we're not a crit class and theoretically it could be...

    I did roll a stamden, though, since stamdk just keeps falling further and further behind. Thank God I'm not all that interested in the sweaty end-game trials runs because I'd be laughed out even with my 45k dps.

    Edit: word
    Edited by ffyre on February 18, 2019 4:49PM
  • Davadin
    Davadin
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    Man, I just want some more Stam morph skills other than the 2 DoTs.... When I roll a DK years ago I thought I can be a... Dragon Knight.

    Realized too late that once I opted out of a staff, I turned into a slow-moving-lightly-poisoned-squishy-tank....
    Davadin - Nord Dragon Knight - NA Megaserver
  • juhislihis19
    juhislihis19
    Soul Shriven
    Wow, getting into the forums is hard.

    Anyways, I've played Nord stamDK as my main since 2017. Needless to say he's been disadvantaged compared to other classes and races. At least Nord got buffed. I've made a stamden and a stamblade as well. They pretty much have everything going better than sDK. However I just really, really like playing DK.

    Why can't DK's have more stamina morphs? There's just two! The DK sustain sucks, and the AF passives are trash. I had few suggestions in mind:

    1)
    Hardened Armor
    Major Ward and Resolve: Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by 5280 for 20 seconds.
    You gain a Damage Shield equal to 15% of your Max Health for 6 seconds.
    You also release a spray of spikes around you, causing any enemies hit to take 954 Magic Damage over 10 seconds.

    Volatile Armor (STAMINA MORPH) 2700 Stamina
    Major Ward and Resolve: Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by 5280 for 20 seconds.
    You also release a spray of spikes around you, causing any enemies hit to take 954 Poison Damage over 10 seconds.
    Also grants Minor Endurance for 20 seconds.

    Spiked Armor is a must have skill. So basically making Hardened Armor a magic damage dot + damage shield for MagDK's. Change Volatile Armor into a stamina morph dealing poison damage and grants upon activation Minor Endurance. This would help stamDK's with their sustain a lot. This buff is currently available for Templars, Wardens and NB's so adding it to DK would IMO be fine.

    2)
    Rework the Stonefist skill. It's an extremely costly ranged CC from the same skill tree which has Petrify. What's the point of Stonefist? Who actually uses it? Free hands here to rework it into something completely different.

    3)
    Ardent Flame passives. Combustion is trash! "When you apply Burning to an enemy, you restore 500 Magicka. When you apply Poisoned to an enemy, you restore 500 Stamina. Each effect can occur once every 5 seconds." If I'm not mistaken, the chance to proc status effects from DOTs is 3%, AOE 5%. That is absolutely dreadful and makes this passive WEAK. This is DK's damage skill tree. Wardens get weapon damage and recovery. Nightblades get Savagery, critical, stealth damage and sustain for kills. Change combustion into something meaningful:

    Combustion 2.0:
    "When you deal Fire Damage with an Ardent Flame ability to an enemy, you restore 500 Magicka. When you deal Poison Damage with an Ardent Flame ability to an enemy, you restore 500 Stamina. Each effect can occur once every 5 seconds"

    This would give DK's sustain when using AF damage skills. If this seems like too much, the amount of stam/mag restored can be lowered.

    Searing Heat and Warmth passives seem like OK at the moment, I wouldn't touch them. World in Ruin is meh. I would like it to be changed into "increase Poison and Flame Damage by 6%", but as MagDK's have Whip as a spammable and StamDK's do not, I'm afraid it wouldn't benefit both equally. If a Whip morph would ever be made into a stamina skill, then World in Ruin could be tweaked as well.

    4)
    DK ultimates are fantastic and in great use. I love Leap! But please ZOS, just please fix Magma Armor if it's still broken! The 3% max hp damage reduction didn't work for ages. I haven't recently checked if it got fixed but a year ago it was still BROKEN.

    5)
    Don't touch Reflective Scales. There's absolutely no need to nerf it.

    6)
    Molten Weapons, great skill. I use it as a stamDK in PVP and also when tanking. But why is it so expensive? 4320 magicka, this has to be the most expensive class buff there is? In general DK skills are costly. Rally has a great heal, Major Brutality for 33s and cost 3400 stamina after passives. Decrease the Molten Weapons cost to 3500-3800 magicka.

    7)
    I also had a rework in mind for Green Dragon Blood. Removing Major Endurance and making it scale off max stamina and weapon damage. Right now I use GDB when PVE tanking but absolutely no one uses it for PVP.
    Edited by juhislihis19 on February 19, 2019 10:48AM
  • John_Falstaff
    John_Falstaff
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    @ffyre , yup, I also run Hunter on the backbar's flex spot (and Vigor last) for passive, and it's a certain loss to put something else there since four casts on the back will make AY stacks fall off. (Sure, can complicate rotation, dynamically refresh backbar while weaving on front, even recast Noxious twice during parse to ensure high fracture uptime, but at that point one has top stop and ask himself - why even stay a dragonknight. Oh, I know, nine traits researched and the trained horse...)

    And yes, seems like khajiits will stay in the gutter now that patch notes are finalized.
  • juhislihis19
    juhislihis19
    Soul Shriven
    Ah darn, just realized I need to list just 2 main pain points. Well here they are:

    1) Lack of stamina morphs
    2) Sustain and weak Ardent Flame passives

    Solutions:

    1) Stamina morph of Spiked Armor as stated above. Dealing poison damage and granting Minor Endurance eases sustain for sDK's and gives us 1 extra stamina morph on a skill which is very commonly used. This change wouldn't hurt mDK's either as their morph would give them damage shield and dot.

    2) Fixing Combustion as stated above, also possibly World in Ruin as well. This would give both DK's more sustain and damage on their damage class tree.
  • Ragnarock41
    Ragnarock41
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    Ah darn, just realized I need to list just 2 main pain points. Well here they are:

    1) Lack of stamina morphs
    2) Sustain and weak Ardent Flame passives

    Solutions:

    1) Stamina morph of Spiked Armor as stated above. Dealing poison damage and granting Minor Endurance eases sustain for sDK's and gives us 1 extra stamina morph on a skill which is very commonly used. This change wouldn't hurt mDK's either as their morph would give them damage shield and dot.

    2) Fixing Combustion as stated above, also possibly World in Ruin as well. This would give both DK's more sustain and damage on their damage class tree.

    That whole ''pain points'' thing got really old. I don't think its something they look for anymore. Then again I don't think they ever looked at this thread to begin with considering they ignored almost all of it.
  • Madcap_Symphony
    Ah darn, just realized I need to list just 2 main pain points. Well here they are:

    1) Lack of stamina morphs
    2) Sustain and weak Ardent Flame passives

    Solutions:

    1) Stamina morph of Spiked Armor as stated above. Dealing poison damage and granting Minor Endurance eases sustain for sDK's and gives us 1 extra stamina morph on a skill which is very commonly used. This change wouldn't hurt mDK's either as their morph would give them damage shield and dot.

    2) Fixing Combustion as stated above, also possibly World in Ruin as well. This would give both DK's more sustain and damage on their damage class tree.

    1- Definitely nice if they made Spiked Armor into a Poisen morph, and Hardened Armor should deal Fire damage instead of Magic.

    2- Yes, Combustion would be a much better sustain tool if it would proc off of fire and poisen damage over burning and poisoned, but don’t lock it into the Ardent Flame tree. More morphs should deal their prospective fire/poison damage over magic and be able to proc it. (Tanks want sustain too)
    Edited by Madcap_Symphony on February 19, 2019 1:20PM
  • juhislihis19
    juhislihis19
    Soul Shriven
    Ah darn, just realized I need to list just 2 main pain points. Well here they are:

    1) Lack of stamina morphs
    2) Sustain and weak Ardent Flame passives

    Solutions:

    1) Stamina morph of Spiked Armor as stated above. Dealing poison damage and granting Minor Endurance eases sustain for sDK's and gives us 1 extra stamina morph on a skill which is very commonly used. This change wouldn't hurt mDK's either as their morph would give them damage shield and dot.

    2) Fixing Combustion as stated above, also possibly World in Ruin as well. This would give both DK's more sustain and damage on their damage class tree.

    1- Definitely nice if hey made Spiked Armor into a Poisen morph, and Hardened Armor should deal Fire damage instead of Magic.

    2- Yes, Combustion would be a much better sustain tool if it would proc off of fire and poisen damage over burning and poisoned, but don’t lock it into the Ardent Flame tree. More morphs should deal their prospective fire/poison damage over magic and be able to proc it. (Tanks want sustain too)

    1) Fire Damage instead of magic could work!

    2) I thought about not locking it to Ardent Flame tree, but I figured if it would be too much to have the 500 restore proccing off ie. Poison Arrow, Acid Spray, ravage health poison, inferno staves..

    Maybe if the 500 stamina/magicka restore would proc only from Dragonknight poison/fire damage skills, then it would benefit tanks but would not overlap with Weapon skills or enchants.
  • Maulkin
    Maulkin
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    I've been playing a heavy stamDK in Cyro and BGs lately (usually play MagDK, MagSorc or StamSorc) and tbh it feels pretty strong.

    On the subject of stam whip while it would certainly be a nice to have, I don't feel the lack of it is detrimental to the most common builds out there. It might be hurting some build diversity and it probably would enable a DW/2H build but let's be honest; the DK synergises very well with S&B and that weapon will always be the basis for >90% of stamDK builds. Mainly because Reverb Bash works great for a DoT based class that grinds opponents down and the class has passives for blocking more damage. And while you have S&B equipped you already have Heroic Slash which is a great spammable in every sense.

    I'm not saying they shouldn't add stam-whip, I'm all for it, just saying that the complaining is a bit over the top and it has dominated discussion for too long.

    On Spiked Armor, having a morph deal Poison/Physical damage would be great. I think that's more useful than stam-whip. But you still would want the cost to be Magicka as it's basically the only magic skill to damp some magicka on every 20".

    I agree with the rest of the pain points. Combustion a bit of a trash passive, only semi-useful in PvE when you have layered 50 poison/fire DoTs on a boss. Stone Fist is a very meh skill. Molten Armaments is too expensive for both types of DKs to use. Shifting Standard is weaker than Corrupting Pollen. It should be a Permafrost equivalent skill; a PBAoE major defile + dmg for 10" and if you get hit by the dot 3 times and you're chained and rooted.

    As for MagDK, I love it but the problem is itemization for heavy builds. Stam builds have many excellent sets; Fury, 7th, Heritance, Cyro Crest, Berserker, Ravager, previously Truth. The magicka options pale in comparison. Light armor builds are a bit squish in Cyro cause they lack mobility and escape and it's tricky to play heavy armor with the lack of good itemization.
    EU | PC | AD
  • ffyre
    ffyre
    @John_Falstaff Now I'm curious what your rotation is. I actually double slot Trap Beast and use Hunter instead of vigor - which isn't always great because there are occasional trials where I'm required to slot vigor to stay alive, but I'd rather trade off 1k-ish dps for 0. I'm right in that 43-45k range, depending on what monster set I'm wearing and how lucky I get with crit.

    But yeah, the khajiit change is trash - although I am still rather curious to see if it winds up being a slight buff on stamdk, since I was using axe and dagger but will be moving to double dagger since axe got nerfed - and supposedly the change will help non-crit classes.
  • Ragnarock41
    Ragnarock41
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    Maulkin wrote: »
    I've been playing a heavy stamDK in Cyro and BGs lately (usually play MagDK, MagSorc or StamSorc) and tbh it feels pretty strong.

    On the subject of stam whip while it would certainly be a nice to have, I don't feel the lack of it is detrimental to the most common builds out there. It might be hurting some build diversity and it probably would enable a DW/2H build but let's be honest; the DK synergises very well with S&B and that weapon will always be the basis for >90% of stamDK builds. Mainly because Reverb Bash works great for a DoT based class that grinds opponents down and the class has passives for blocking more damage. And while you have S&B equipped you already have Heroic Slash which is a great spammable in every sense.

    I'm not saying they shouldn't add stam-whip, I'm all for it, just saying that the complaining is a bit over the top and it has dominated discussion for too long.

    On Spiked Armor, having a morph deal Poison/Physical damage would be great. I think that's more useful than stam-whip. But you still would want the cost to be Magicka as it's basically the only magic skill to damp some magicka on every 20".

    I agree with the rest of the pain points. Combustion a bit of a trash passive, only semi-useful in PvE when you have layered 50 poison/fire DoTs on a boss. Stone Fist is a very meh skill. Molten Armaments is too expensive for both types of DKs to use. Shifting Standard is weaker than Corrupting Pollen. It should be a Permafrost equivalent skill; a PBAoE major defile + dmg for 10" and if you get hit by the dot 3 times and you're chained and rooted.

    As for MagDK, I love it but the problem is itemization for heavy builds. Stam builds have many excellent sets; Fury, 7th, Heritance, Cyro Crest, Berserker, Ravager, previously Truth. The magicka options pale in comparison. Light armor builds are a bit squish in Cyro cause they lack mobility and escape and it's tricky to play heavy armor with the lack of good itemization.

    I would say stamwhip would be more of a flavour+diversity thing than an actual buff.(unless you drop SnB, then a deserved megabuff obviously) As you said more than %90 of the Dks are running the classic seventh-fury SnB builds and there is just no room for creativity in a stamDk build, due to the lack of strong and/or fun class skills. Outside of corrosive armor, majority of the stamDks perks come from weapon skills. There is a half-arsed ''poison knight'' theme going on but it is just not gonna happen with only 2 poison dots, one of which is a candidate for weakest stamina morph in the entire game.

    They could have made A LOT of changes to make stamDK an interesting spec , to make it a fun choice outside of dueling and tanking, like for example:

    * Poison morph for spiked armor.

    So that it actually does damage for stamina specs aswell. I don't get why this does magic damage it makes no damn sense to me. I really really expected this with hardened armor ''buff'', but I was once again left disappointed.

    *Improved or reworked noxious breath.

    Self explanatory. Compare this ability to sub assault. Thats all you need to know really. This ability is just a lazy excuse for a stamina morph. It doesn't work in PvP, it doesn't work in PvE, nobody likes it. It is that bad. I mean this ability has never been liked and class reps told that aswell, but nothing has been done about it which is a shame.

    *stamina stonefist.

    Yes, but as a CC, rather than a ''spammable''. Because ''spammable stonefist'' is probably the most gross idea I've ever heard. Its like saying ''hey lets make templar bubble a stamplar spammable''. Anyways stonefist could make a melee CC for stamDk, high damage if you successfully stun enemies, or a second phase ability similar to whip proc. Since most stamDks run fossilize or reverb this would be more of an alternative for builds that want damage at cost of reliability. The ability could get a high damage plus a debuff like vulnerability or something when you successfully stun an enemy, to make it an interesting choice over other, superior CC alternatives.

    *stamina morph for inhale.

    Again, self explanatory. You inhale and release poison afterwards. Makes sense to me as far as class identity goes. And this would really help in the mid to large scale PvP where stamDK truly falls off.

    *stamina whip.

    Beating the dead horse at this point. I don't even want this that much, but really anything to make this class fun to play.


    These are just some suggestions that are popping on my head.

    I think stamDk right now is one of the strongest 1v1 specs(mainly cause dueling is dumb af and corrosive armor works perfect for 1v1s), though outside of that its very meh class and definitely gets boring really quick because it offers no gameplay variety and has almost nothing unique to itself. Perhaps that could change, If the devs wanted it, there are perfect opportunities to make it happen but it seems to me that they are either happy with where this class is or they just pretend it doesn't exist. One of both.
    Edited by Ragnarock41 on February 19, 2019 2:55PM
  • John_Falstaff
    John_Falstaff
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    @ffyre , I usually prefer to have Vigor on back bar - for parses, I change that, it's also not important in trials so I can double bar the trap, but in 4-mans I prefer to have Vigor. Rotation is pretty cookie-cutter style:
    1. Trap -> (swap) -> (2)
    2. Endless Hail -> LA + Poison Injection -> LA + Caltrops -> (swap) -> (3)
    3. LA + Rending Slashes -> LA + Flames of Oblivion -> LA + Noxious -> LA + Claw x4 (or x3 if ultimate was used earlier) -> LA + Trap -> LA - > (swap) -> (2)

    I drop Standard after first rotation (when I'm on back bar again) and then use Dawnbreaker when ready instead of one of Claw casts. There are probably better ways (and better players), but if I'll cheese it up and cast Noxious more than once per rotation (for 100% of Fracture uptime), can get around 49k on 3mil with Relequen + AY (using axe + dagger for solo, 4-man and parses since it pulls ahead on live, but twin daggers for trials) + Kra'gh (I'm khajiit sDK).

    I did try to put in something on the back bar's flex spot (Igneous Weapons, Eruption, even arrow spray for a little DoT), but however I turn it, four casts on the back lead to drop in AY uptime and whatever gain to be had ends up not worth the GCD. I probably could push it a bit higher by refreshing FoO and Noxious precisely when they run out, but rotation gets complicated, and again, the only advantage DK has over nighblade - easy circular rotation - is lost.

    I didn't try experimenting with different traits on PTS yet, but likely will go double daggers (nirnhoned and precise instead of double infused) after the patch, and see where it'll take me.
  • ffyre
    ffyre
    @John_Falstaff Interesting, thanks for sharing! I also slot vigor when running around doing regular content or four man dungeons. You almost have to since going for high dps necessarily means you give up the DK survivability. In fact, I wear Valkyn Skoria for the extra health at all times since I only lose about 500-ish dps from Velidreth since Valkyn procs off Relequen stacks.

    If you don't mind, may I send you a message to continue this discussion? I know literally 0 people who run StamDK in PVE and I'd love to chat/theorycraft, but I'm not sure this forum is the right place to do so...?
  • John_Falstaff
    John_Falstaff
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    @ffyre , you're welcome - and sure, of course, feel free to poke either in private message or in-game on PC/EU if you happen to be there. ^^ And there are plenty of theorycrafting on the forum too, I have no illusions about myself either; some folks from this thread alone are a head better than I am.

    I didn't try Valkyn Skoria on sDK, though people seem to have good results; I mainly run either Kra'gh (for stack'n'burn fights), or Velidreth (for 4-mans and anywhere I need something universally good... or when tank runs Alkosh and I start overpenetrating with Kra'gh). I usually don't need extra health because using Claw as spammable makes it easy to sustain blue bi-stat food.
  • Zekka
    Zekka
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    Spiked armor should work like Flames of Oblivion imo, keep the magicka cost and deal fire (instead of magic)/physical damage based on your highest resource.
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