[Class Rep] Dragonknight Feedback Thread

SaintSubwayy

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Now that Dunmer don’t get a bonus to fire damage- can we PLEASE change World in Ruin to a flat fire and poison damage bonus?

So you mean a flar value like x SD towards gire dmg or a % value like 10% more fire dmg?

as I see it they will ..if they do something like that...make a flar sd wd buff, rather than a % based buff...to please to noobs and punish the pros....once again -.-

Savos_Saren

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Now that Dunmer don’t get a bonus to fire damage- can we PLEASE change World in Ruin to a flat fire and poison damage bonus?

So you mean a flar value like x SD towards gire dmg or a % value like 10% more fire dmg?

as I see it they will ..if they do something like that...make a flar sd wd buff, rather than a % based buff...to please to noobs and punish the pros....once again -.-

I’d imagine it would be the same bonus that sorcs get toward lightning/physical or wardens get toward frost/magic. NBs get a critical strike increase (which applies to all elements/physical/magic/poison/disease) and Templars get higher criticak strike damage (which applies to everything as well).

I’d imagine that Necromancers would get a bonus to disease damage or something along those lines.

Onefrkncrzypope

A percentage damage bonus would solidify a scaling buff that could keep the dk more up to date. Damage goes up DK will scale and keep up damage goes down for other classes so would dks.

I would also like an obnoxious breath rework. It much weaker than rending and Foo. It doesn't keep fracture up for a full rotation and honestly fracture as a bonus effect is really weak for such a low damage skill.

Ragnarock41

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

A percentage damage bonus would solidify a scaling buff that could keep the dk more up to date. Damage goes up DK will scale and keep up damage goes down for other classes so would dks.

I would also like an obnoxious breath rework. It much weaker than rending and Foo. It doesn't keep fracture up for a full rotation and honestly fracture as a bonus effect is really weak for such a low damage skill.

I do agree that obnoxious breath needs work, as for a dps passive I have no idea how to add a well balanced one or if we will ever get one.

TeIvanni

Biggest Concerns:
Neither Stamina DK or Magicka DK dps is viable in mid-endgame raiding, at least as a competitive dps.

I'd like to see Molten Armaments reworked to grab empower, rather than increased heavy attack damage.

And the range on the Magicka morphs of skills is too short.
If Burning embers was same reach as force pulse they'd be a lot more viable for raid dps.

I'd just like to say, I don't play much Dragonknight dps and I'm not terrible interested in doing so.
But it's sad that people who do want to play DK, can't bring them to competitive raids as a dps.

Davadin

TeIvanni wrote: »

Biggest Concerns:
Neither Stamina DK or Magicka DK dps is viable in mid-endgame raiding, at least as a competitive dps.

I'd like to see Molten Armaments reworked to grab empower, rather than increased heavy attack damage.

And the range on the Magicka morphs of skills is too short.
If Burning embers was same reach as force pulse they'd be a lot more viable for raid dps.

I'd just like to say, I don't play much Dragonknight dps and I'm not terrible interested in doing so.
But it's sad that people who do want to play DK, can't bring them to competitive raids as a dps.

explain... "competitive raids"....?

i see DK in trials and vet dungeons all the time.

TeIvanni

Davadin wrote: »

TeIvanni wrote: »

Biggest Concerns:
Neither Stamina DK or Magicka DK dps is viable in mid-endgame raiding, at least as a competitive dps.

I'd like to see Molten Armaments reworked to grab empower, rather than increased heavy attack damage.

And the range on the Magicka morphs of skills is too short.
If Burning embers was same reach as force pulse they'd be a lot more viable for raid dps.

I'd just like to say, I don't play much Dragonknight dps and I'm not terrible interested in doing so.
But it's sad that people who do want to play DK, can't bring them to competitive raids as a dps.

explain... "competitive raids"....?

i see DK in trials and vet dungeons all the time.

Well Normal Trials and Veteran Dungeons you can pretty much bring whatever you want.

But i know that for people progressing in the hardest content like vAS+2 or vCR+3. They're not going to be happy you're bringing a Magicka DK dps. In fact, most outright bar you from bringing them. Because they do considerably less damage. And you want everyone doing the most damage they can be when you're progressing through the Hardest content.
Also for any group doing score pushes you're not going to be allowed to bring a low dps class.

So basically any Hardmode Trial content you're not going to be bringing a DK dps 95% of the time.

StShoot

So as far i heard, Dks loosing their reflectiv wings and instead got a 50 % dmg reduction against projectiles......... Sorry but i have to ask you guys.... why are you hating the mag dk so much ? even if you dont want to buff him stop nerfing him you have classes that have a 30 percent damage reduction against everything but i have to use wings to gain a ******** 50% dmg reduction against projectiles ? !!!!!!!

ah and the birds, destro spamable, templer execute etc dont even count as a projectile, THIS IS JUST AWSOME

I hope if you nerf the dk you will also adress the cloak and the shimmering shield, but who am i kidding they wont


I know i shouldnt cry about loosing one single skill, but the dk gets worse with every patch, i think i will leave eso for a while... im realy sorry but enaugh is enaugh

Savos_Saren

StShoot wrote: »

So as far i heard, Dks loosing their reflectiv wings and instead got a 50 % dmg reduction against projectiles......... Sorry but i have to ask you guys.... why are you hating the mag dk so much ? even if you dont want to buff him stop nerfing him you have classes that have a 30 percent damage reduction against everything but i have to use wings to gain a ******** 50% dmg reduction against projectiles ? !!!!!!!

ah and the birds, destro spamable, templer execute etc dont even count as a projectile, THIS IS JUST AWSOME

I hope if you nerf the dk you will also adress the cloak and the shimmering shield, but who am i kidding they wont


I know i shouldnt cry about loosing one single skill, but the dk gets worse with every patch, i think i will leave eso for a while... im realy sorry but enaugh is enaugh

Good ole ZOS. Gotta *** your main class so that you buy Necromancers.

Savos_Saren

Can anyone list the "proposed" changes for DKs with the update? Apparently there's one to wings and whip? Anything else?

killimandrosb16_ESO

do NOT *** up wings. Dont do it. Dont even think about it. Unless you want half of cyrodiil to spam snipe from stealth.

Onefrkncrzypope

Apparently whip gets a three tick bomb like necro.

Sleep724

OF COURSE they’re nerfing wings. A few people complain and Zos literally can’t say no to pew-pew magicka players because they can’t burst you down in a couple seconds.

TrinityBreaker

Can someone link the article foethese apparent changes?

SaintSubwayy

TeIvanni wrote: »

Biggest Concerns:
Neither Stamina DK or Magicka DK dps is viable in mid-endgame raiding, at least as a competitive dps.

I'd like to see Molten Armaments reworked to grab empower, rather than increased heavy attack damage.

And the range on the Magicka morphs of skills is too short.
If Burning embers was same reach as force pulse they'd be a lot more viable for raid dps.

I'd just like to say, I don't play much Dragonknight dps and I'm not terrible interested in doing so.
But it's sad that people who do want to play DK, can't bring them to competitive raids as a dps.

No to adding the empower to Armarments...give it to warmth passive!

As long as a enemy is effected by any Ardent Flame ability, LA against this target are Empowered.
a Buff to armarments will not be used on magDK since the bars are already cramped it in PVE.

adding it to a passive would still have the same effect for stamDK (doesnt have to use armarments anymore then, open slot for more dmg or defensive skills) and still buff magDK and stamDK DPS:

Let Engulfings 10% bonus be scaled with SD and Max Magicka, so tanks can only provide like 75% effectiveness of a magDK DD can provide. and giving the magDK a 200% buff when fighting an enemy which is effected by engulfing would compensate the 9% DMG loss form Dunmer nerf.


Example:

Boss debuff with Engulfing from tanks:
magNB get 7% more extra flame DMG
magDK gets 14% more flamedmg (when not using his own engulfing)

Boss debuffed by magDK DD engulfing :
magNB get 10% more extra flame DMG
magDK gets 20% more flamedmg (when using his own engulfing)

Davadin

TeIvanni wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

TeIvanni wrote: »

Biggest Concerns:
Neither Stamina DK or Magicka DK dps is viable in mid-endgame raiding, at least as a competitive dps.

I'd like to see Molten Armaments reworked to grab empower, rather than increased heavy attack damage.

And the range on the Magicka morphs of skills is too short.
If Burning embers was same reach as force pulse they'd be a lot more viable for raid dps.

I'd just like to say, I don't play much Dragonknight dps and I'm not terrible interested in doing so.
But it's sad that people who do want to play DK, can't bring them to competitive raids as a dps.

explain... "competitive raids"....?

i see DK in trials and vet dungeons all the time.

Well Normal Trials and Veteran Dungeons you can pretty much bring whatever you want.

But i know that for people progressing in the hardest content like vAS+2 or vCR+3. They're not going to be happy you're bringing a Magicka DK dps. In fact, most outright bar you from bringing them. Because they do considerably less damage. And you want everyone doing the most damage they can be when you're progressing through the Hardest content.
Also for any group doing score pushes you're not going to be allowed to bring a low dps class.

So basically any Hardmode Trial content you're not going to be bringing a DK dps 95% of the time.

how's StamDK?

SaintSubwayy

Davadin wrote: »

TeIvanni wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

TeIvanni wrote: »

Biggest Concerns:
Neither Stamina DK or Magicka DK dps is viable in mid-endgame raiding, at least as a competitive dps.

I'd like to see Molten Armaments reworked to grab empower, rather than increased heavy attack damage.

And the range on the Magicka morphs of skills is too short.
If Burning embers was same reach as force pulse they'd be a lot more viable for raid dps.

I'd just like to say, I don't play much Dragonknight dps and I'm not terrible interested in doing so.
But it's sad that people who do want to play DK, can't bring them to competitive raids as a dps.

explain... "competitive raids"....?

i see DK in trials and vet dungeons all the time.

Well Normal Trials and Veteran Dungeons you can pretty much bring whatever you want.

But i know that for people progressing in the hardest content like vAS+2 or vCR+3. They're not going to be happy you're bringing a Magicka DK dps. In fact, most outright bar you from bringing them. Because they do considerably less damage. And you want everyone doing the most damage they can be when you're progressing through the Hardest content.
Also for any group doing score pushes you're not going to be allowed to bring a low dps class.

So basically any Hardmode Trial content you're not going to be bringing a DK dps 95% of the time.

how's StamDK?

well lets say...not great but not as bad as stamsorc

Davadin

StShoot wrote: »

So as far i heard, Dks loosing their reflectiv wings and instead got a 50 % dmg reduction against projectiles......... Sorry but i have to ask you guys.... why are you hating the mag dk so much ? even if you dont want to buff him stop nerfing him you have classes that have a 30 percent damage reduction against everything but i have to use wings to gain a ******** 50% dmg reduction against projectiles ? !!!!!!!

ah and the birds, destro spamable, templer execute etc dont even count as a projectile, THIS IS JUST AWSOME

I hope if you nerf the dk you will also adress the cloak and the shimmering shield, but who am i kidding they wont


I know i shouldnt cry about loosing one single skill, but the dk gets worse with every patch, i think i will leave eso for a while... im realy sorry but enaugh is enaugh

i'm a PvP DK and honestly I don't even slot wings. I'm an up close and personal 2H/DW DoT that rather dodge my way in and out of battles.


But bloody come on, ZOS, why nerf DK?

DK got demolished in BG against Templar and Wardens of similar skill level and gears thanks to birds, land bugs, spear jabs, god rays, etc.... on top of that DK's the only one that HAVE to rely on weapon skills more than other class. StamDK even more.


so.... we got nerfed?


like, see posts above.... DK don't even get invited to end-game content.....


Y'know I've been here since BETA, DK is my main ever since. I got a couple under-50 toon to play around with, but DK is my bread and butter. I've gone through so many builds since day 1, magicka, stamina, DoT, burst, emperor..... Of course I'm NOT the expert on DK, i simply LOVE the class so much.........


.....but I guess when Elswyr is out, I have to shelf my Nord DK. Put him in retirement, in my little bungalow in RIften so he can fish all day and drink ale. I'll check out how cool Necro is about.

I love this game but this is too painful on what you're doing with my fav class. Hell, not just my fav, but the class who stands front and center of your marketing since day 1.


God I miss the old days.

Davadin

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

TeIvanni wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

TeIvanni wrote: »

Biggest Concerns:
Neither Stamina DK or Magicka DK dps is viable in mid-endgame raiding, at least as a competitive dps.

I'd like to see Molten Armaments reworked to grab empower, rather than increased heavy attack damage.

And the range on the Magicka morphs of skills is too short.
If Burning embers was same reach as force pulse they'd be a lot more viable for raid dps.

I'd just like to say, I don't play much Dragonknight dps and I'm not terrible interested in doing so.
But it's sad that people who do want to play DK, can't bring them to competitive raids as a dps.

explain... "competitive raids"....?

i see DK in trials and vet dungeons all the time.

Well Normal Trials and Veteran Dungeons you can pretty much bring whatever you want.

But i know that for people progressing in the hardest content like vAS+2 or vCR+3. They're not going to be happy you're bringing a Magicka DK dps. In fact, most outright bar you from bringing them. Because they do considerably less damage. And you want everyone doing the most damage they can be when you're progressing through the Hardest content.
Also for any group doing score pushes you're not going to be allowed to bring a low dps class.

So basically any Hardmode Trial content you're not going to be bringing a DK dps 95% of the time.

how's StamDK?

well lets say...not great but not as bad as stamsorc

aight, i'll stick to PvP

SaintSubwayy

Davadin wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

TeIvanni wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

TeIvanni wrote: »

Biggest Concerns:
Neither Stamina DK or Magicka DK dps is viable in mid-endgame raiding, at least as a competitive dps.

I'd like to see Molten Armaments reworked to grab empower, rather than increased heavy attack damage.

And the range on the Magicka morphs of skills is too short.
If Burning embers was same reach as force pulse they'd be a lot more viable for raid dps.

I'd just like to say, I don't play much Dragonknight dps and I'm not terrible interested in doing so.
But it's sad that people who do want to play DK, can't bring them to competitive raids as a dps.

explain... "competitive raids"....?

i see DK in trials and vet dungeons all the time.

Well Normal Trials and Veteran Dungeons you can pretty much bring whatever you want.

But i know that for people progressing in the hardest content like vAS+2 or vCR+3. They're not going to be happy you're bringing a Magicka DK dps. In fact, most outright bar you from bringing them. Because they do considerably less damage. And you want everyone doing the most damage they can be when you're progressing through the Hardest content.
Also for any group doing score pushes you're not going to be allowed to bring a low dps class.

So basically any Hardmode Trial content you're not going to be bringing a DK dps 95% of the time.

how's StamDK?

well lets say...not great but not as bad as stamsorc

aight, i'll stick to PvP

there jeah stamDK is doin ok IMO.

but PVE...oh hell naw pls buff DK :'D

Beffagorn

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

there jeah stamDK is doin ok IMO.

but PVE...oh hell naw pls buff DK :'D

If by "Doin ok" you mean being a useless and significantly weaker version of Stamdens with the only exception of being good in 1v1 cause of Corrosive Armor then yes they are "doing okay".

Stamdk is NOT doing okay, not by far. The class, if 2morphs can even be called a class, is a complete disaster that needs an entire rework that most likely will never happen.

The biggest problems being lack of class fantasy and class identity, aka the 2 most important things in a class.

When i heard the devs talking about Necromancer and the phrase "We want you to feel like you're a necromancer even if you're playing stamina" or something along the lines of that came out, my ears almost started bleeding.

Xvorg

Hi...

Just to throw the question: Shall we go? I mean, wings "rework" (ZoS likes so much that word) is the last nail in the coffin IMHO.

I'm tired... Maybe tomorrow, If I have the time and the energy, I'll post all the nerfs we have received from Morrowind untill now. Just in the case of Fame Lash there are 5 nerfs... FIVE... on the class spammable. Sure, we got a nice heal IF we proc power lash which is already quite hard to do.

But hey "wings are OP"...

Savos_Saren

I still don't understand the logic behind this proposed change. Yes- wings are strong against people who only use non-beam ranged abilities. But a NB's cloak is strong against people who refuse to slot detect pots. Just like a Templar's healing is strong against people who don't use defiles. It's paper, rock, scissors.

IF ZOS changes wings to where they take 50% damage against ranged attacks- that means that DKs will absolutely be demolished against MagBlades and Sorcs. Here's why:

1.) We can't gap close to them in order to get them within melee range. Our gap closer is only 22m. Ranged attacks are 28 meters (and up to 40+ meters depending on your passives).

2.) We can't gap close to reach them if they're on a wall, high ledge, or even a couple of stairs up. Our Chains AND our Leap have limited "Y axis" aiming. We constantly get "The target is too high or too low."

3.) We can't retreat with major expedition... because it's tied to our gap closer.

4.) Even if they're within gap closer range- we constantly see "missed" pop up because the NB cloaks. Or our chains ends up hitting the Sorc's Ball of Lightning. So, the two people that complain the most about having the most trouble when they're attacking a DK- now will have the advantage both offensively and defensively.

Davadin

Beffagorn wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

there jeah stamDK is doin ok IMO.

but PVE...oh hell naw pls buff DK :'D

If by "Doin ok" you mean being a useless and significantly weaker version of Stamdens with the only exception of being good in 1v1 cause of Corrosive Armor then yes they are "doing okay".

Stamdk is NOT doing okay, not by far. The class, if 2morphs can even be called a class, is a complete disaster that needs an entire rework that most likely will never happen.

The biggest problems being lack of class fantasy and class identity, aka the 2 most important things in a class.

When i heard the devs talking about Necromancer and the phrase "We want you to feel like you're a necromancer even if you're playing stamina" or something along the lines of that came out, my ears almost started bleeding.

*gives virtual hug*

There, there......... you're not alone........

Beffagorn

Davadin wrote: »

*gives virtual hug*

There, there......... you're not alone........

Thanks... i needed that. I had to unload my salt after the stream.

Update 22 is going to focus on classes, maybe Stamdks will get something new. There's a lot of good and detailed feedback in this thread, let's hope it's not wasted. If nothing happens, there's the stam necro train to catch

coplannb16_ESO

they could change wings so that instead of reflection the projectiles are absorbed and replenish health instead (basic morph, 2000 health).

then have one morph that (still) costs magicka and also replenishs 2000 magicka and the other morph (now costs stamina) also replenishs 2000 stamina.

the attackers will no longer be able to kill themself via reflects, the DK stays true to the stand-your ground and outlast your opponent theme.

juhislihis19

coplannb16_ESO wrote: »

they could change wings so that instead of reflection the projectiles are absorbed and replenish health instead (basic morph, 2000 health).

then have one morph that (still) costs magicka and also replenishs 2000 magicka and the other morph (now costs stamina) also replenishs 2000 stamina.

the attackers will no longer be able to kill themself via reflects, the DK stays true to the stand-your ground and outlast your opponent theme.

No, no, no! Wings are too OP!!! MUST nerf!

Also remove Battle Roar and the Minor Brutality passive!! That's way too much class identity ! DK's are tanks and curse to all who use DK for something else!

Xvorg

juhislihis19 wrote: »

coplannb16_ESO wrote: »

they could change wings so that instead of reflection the projectiles are absorbed and replenish health instead (basic morph, 2000 health).

then have one morph that (still) costs magicka and also replenishs 2000 magicka and the other morph (now costs stamina) also replenishs 2000 stamina.

the attackers will no longer be able to kill themself via reflects, the DK stays true to the stand-your ground and outlast your opponent theme.

No, no, no! Wings are too OP!!! MUST nerf!

Also remove Battle Roar and the Minor Brutality passive!! That's way too much class identity ! DK's are tanks and curse to all who use DK for something else!

Tanks in RL have those things called cannons that attack from long range... we have a stone xD

phantasmalD

Main pain point atm:
DKs don't really have a good healer ultimate. Magma Shell is the closest thing as it provides shield to allies and is actually suggested by the built-in build guide. However, Magma Shell is completely inferior to all versions of Barrier.

Cost: same for both, 200 ultimate
Range: the tooltip of MS doesn't mention the reach of this skill but by testing with using an AoE skill with known radius I found it to be 8m. Barrier has a radius of 12m.
Duration: 9s for MS and 30s for Barrier.
Shield Strength: Barrier scales with max resource, with 38k magicka it shows ~31k shield and it's for you and your allies.
MS gives shield based on the targets max health and only for your allies. For non-tanks that's usually 18-20k in PVE and ~38k for tanks.
So in a 4-man group that's 124k shield from Barrier and ~80k from MS.

So far MS is clearly just a worse Barrier but then let's see what they have to offer.

Additional fluff:
Reviving Barrier - offers a potent heal
Replenishing Barrier - offers magicka sustain on the side and ultimate refund (essentially drops it's own cost by 6-72 ultimate)
MS - offers low damage and a unique survivability buff

And most importantly: there's a passive benefit to slotting Barrier (which is totally the real reason anyone uses it as Warhorn is too much of a meta in PvE); thanks to the Magicka Aid passive it's 10% magicka recovery.

If I understand correctly MS makes it so that no attack can do more than 3% of your max hp for 9 second, so theoretically you can take like 30 attacks. But is that better and more powerful than just straight up having 30k shield, can you 1negate more damage? I'm kind of doubtful but too tired to do the math.

It sounds like it could be a good oh-*** button but there's one big problems with that:
It implies that you had 200 ultimate to begin with which means you were stockpiling ultimate instead of using it on your other ultimate OR that you were able to build up 200 ultimate while being the only one alive in which case you prob didn't need this skill in the first place

MS doesn't really fair well when compared to the DK's other ultimates. It clearly looses in damage dealing to both Standard and Leap, with Standard dealing ~3x times as much damage and Leap ~1.5x.
But I'd actually say that even in survivabilty MS looses to them, or at least to Leap. Leap costs less, knocks back + stuns enemies, and essentially doubles your health with the shield it grants; while standing in the radius of your standard reduces damage by 15% for about double the duration of MS.

tl;dr: Magma Armor has nice animation and flavour but in the end is a pointless and kind of weak ultimate

PS:
A second pain point would prob be the lack of a third synergy, but that's not a DK specific problem.
Also maybe Cinder Storm could have a +1/2m bigger radius.

Toc de Malsvi

Pain point, resource return based on ult cost instead of ultimate consumed pushes DKs into using ultimates on CD instead of opportunistically.

So say I have 500 ult stored, casting a 110 ult Dragon Leap is a big hit to sustain. I've the given up 390 worth of ult, same as every other class, but I've also given up a huge amount of sustain the class is built around.