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The Wrathstone DLC Game Pack and Update 21 base game patch are now available to test on the PTS! Read the full patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/454456/

Combat Update in U21 - A New Approach

  • Yamenstein
    Yamenstein
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    The most important thing is that if racial passives are largely reworked to the point where a race is no longer BiS (redguard, high elf, dark elf etc) that we are allowed to race change for free. A lot of players pick races based on what is most optimal, and it will really suck if I have to pay for race changes bc of this.

    Race would still be a cosmetic. Doesn't make sense if every day you change your mind and want to be a different race.

    Don't really care if they make race change tokens different or not, though I would understand why the tokens would still be sold in the crown store.


    Personally I hope they either add a star sign system to change things up (and get rid of the current racial combat passives, add new racial passives that are just cosmetic or generally non-combat related) or if not that then make it so you can pick and choose racial passives, they wouldn't be racial though in either of those situations so it would need to be named something else.
  • Lord_Dexter
    Lord_Dexter
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    Hello all, and Happy New Year!

    Clearly many of you are chomping at the bit to learn more details about the U21 changes. As mentioned in the Class Rep Meeting Notes, our intent is to provide a more in-depth preview of the racial passive adjustments prior to publishing the patch notes for PTS 1. You can expect that preview in the next couple weeks. The rest of the changes will be detailed in the patch notes.

    As for the long-term plan for Combat, that effort is still in progress and we don't have an ETA right now. As I mentioned before, this is a non-trivial effort and we still have updates to deliver in U21 and beyond.

    Thanks for your patience. It's going to be an exciting year!

    @ZOS_RobGarrett , @ZOS_GinaBruno

    Will we see Racial changes preview couple of days before PTS or stop waiting for racial preview?
    Edited by Lord_Dexter on January 16, 2019 3:43PM
  • Moonsorrow
    Moonsorrow
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    Anyone knows when we get to know more about the racial passive changes? Next week pts has them? Or have i missed some info on details about the preview?

    Want to make a new character.. but kinda waiting to know more about this first. :p
    PC/EU - Sotha Sil - DC
    solo & small scale
    1000+ CP
    Playing all classes
  • JazzyNapkin
    JazzyNapkin
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    Moonsorrow wrote: »
    Anyone knows when we get to know more about the racial passive changes? Next week pts has them? Or have i missed some info on details about the preview?

    Want to make a new character.. but kinda waiting to know more about this first. :p

    PTS, this coming Monday, Jan. 21st.
  • BollaZee
    BollaZee
    My feedback: What would really change combat for many people is removal of weapon bar swap. Keep weapon swap for the weapon abilities / stats / bonus but remove the bar swap, add 5 more skill slots to the current bar and map them to 6 to 0. This will change will remove all issues for players. The servers never have low latency and the biggest downfall of that is weaponswap.
    | PC | MAC | XBOX ONE |
  • Feric51
    Feric51
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    BollaZee wrote: »
    My feedback: What would really change combat for many people is removal of weapon bar swap. Keep weapon swap for the weapon abilities / stats / bonus but remove the bar swap, add 5 more skill slots to the current bar and map them to 6 to 0. This will change will remove all issues for players. The servers never have low latency and the biggest downfall of that is weaponswap.

    2/3 of the playerbase uses console controllers with no numbers.

    The skill bar restrictions were not arbitrary, they were designed specifically to accommodate the amount of available buttons on console controllers.
    Feric51
    Xbox NA

    Darkness Falls: The Crusade survivor (you young kids will never know the struggle of text-based games)


  • Emmagoldman
    Emmagoldman
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    Im excited!

    This is what zos needed and after the last patch, it sounds like you took a moment to work on lingering complaints.

    Awesome that you are looking at past sets! When making new sets, I love when the add something unique or allow for niche builds and playstyle. So many sets are just utter trash and it will be exciting to see what happens
  • Xogath
    Xogath
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    BollaZee wrote: »
    My feedback: What would really change combat for many people is removal of weapon bar swap. Keep weapon swap for the weapon abilities / stats / bonus but remove the bar swap, add 5 more skill slots to the current bar and map them to 6 to 0. This will change will remove all issues for players. The servers never have low latency and the biggest downfall of that is weaponswap.

    Yeah, no.

    The reason for the amount of latency is simply due to one fact: "mega"server.

    If the game had numerous dedicated servers scattered throughout various countries, latency would be perfectly tolerable. Even if they used sharding technology to "bring players together" while still being on separate servers, the situation would be much better than it is now.

    Thankfully, though, ESO happens to be one of the VERY few (I mean like one out of three) games that I've seen (and played, obviously) that seem to handle the whole "mega"server thing fairly well, and isn't really that bad to play with even 120ms latency. While I would love to see my latency stay down in to the 60ms range or less, it would take a monumental effort on ZOS' part to make that happen. (And a lot of money, but I digress.)

    However.. in your defense, I believe that would be the very best thing for the game right now. Why? As the game gets more and more popular, the server(s) hosting it are obviously going to be stressed even further.. and, at some point, they're going to have no choice but to upgrade hardware, optimize code, and/or bring in more servers simply to handle the traffic. When that point comes, you can expect severe amounts of latency, even after weekly maintenance, numerous hours of downtime, some things in the game not working, etc.

    I don't know why a lot of people seem to think this way, but you simply cannot code your way around network traffic; it cannot be done. Perhaps it can be "optimized" to an extent, but not entirely worked around.

    Now, Cyrodiil.. there is absolutely no reason that my latency should immediately jump from around 90ms (game world) to well over 200ms simply by joining Cyrodiil and entering the zone. The incredible latency there is why I won't go back until I level another character that happens to need Vigor and Caltrops. I sincerely hope that with Elsweyr, with the separation of Cyrodiil and the Imperial City (they will be separate "campaigns" you and queue for/join) will improve network stability as a result, because PvP in this game is actually pretty fun.. but I won't participate as long as my latency triples simply by entering the zone.

    That said, though.. I'm also hoping for general engine/performance improvements with the new chapter as well. I'd love to finally see this game with the DX12 API.
    Edited by Xogath on January 18, 2019 6:27AM
  • technohic
    technohic
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    ✭✭✭
    "We want to do smaller combat changes "
    *guts racial combat passives"
    Technohic - DC Templar
    Technohicz - DC Nightblade
    Technohix - DC Sorc
    TechDKnohic - DC DK
  • BollaZee
    BollaZee
    Feric51 wrote: »
    BollaZee wrote: »
    My feedback: What would really change combat for many people is removal of weapon bar swap. Keep weapon swap for the weapon abilities / stats / bonus but remove the bar swap, add 5 more skill slots to the current bar and map them to 6 to 0. This will change will remove all issues for players. The servers never have low latency and the biggest downfall of that is weaponswap.

    2/3 of the playerbase uses console controllers with no numbers.

    The skill bar restrictions were not arbitrary, they were designed specifically to accommodate the amount of available buttons on console controllers.

    they were designed specifically to accommodate the amount of available buttons on console controllers~ Where did you get this information?

    ALL mmorpg games on console have a simple system to use many skills with ease of access.

    Let me give you a few examples:
    Many skills bars with a simple L1 / L2 modifier, no latency attached.


    Again easy access to many skills with simple modifiers, no server to decide if a swap is allowed.


    Please be informative or supportive in your replies, you cannot thumbsuck information because you are bound to a console.
    Edited by BollaZee on January 18, 2019 4:57PM
    | PC | MAC | XBOX ONE |
  • Villaine
    Villaine
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    Azurya wrote: »
    Hi all,

    I wanted to take moment to share some info about how we’re approaching Combat updates in U21.

    I’m guessing many of you will be interested to know more about the racial balance changes. While we aren’t ready to share specific details yet, here’s a peek at the goals driving the team’s effort:
    • When selecting a race, players should have multiple effective options for any given gameplay role.
    • The combat power provided by each race should be more equalized.
    • Players should feel a stronger sense of power progression through racial passives as they level up.
    • The unique feeling and flavor each race provides should be retained and enhanced where possible, and remain faithful to established lore.

    That's all for now. Feedback, as always, is welcome.

    My 10 cents to this:
    Point 1: you can already play any role with any race, having 15 chars in all available races, I can tell you that
    Point 2: huh equalized, all brought down to the same lvl, kills diversity, kills uniqeness, no more outstanding roles playable,
    but everything is equalized, don´t see any positive thing in it, but ok, lets look on
    Point 3: yeah leveling up takes so much time it is really necesarry to FEEL that progression every 30 minutes
    Point 4: here it all comes together: Uniqueness versus Equalizing! first you bring all DOWN to the lawn and then you say something about uniquenes, which you killed already above, do you even have an idea what you are doing???

    I don´t think so, and reading the class changes, I get more doubts.
    I think you guys are just boiling your soup, and have no idea neither an intention towards which point ot goal you are working.

    And 1 token to boot. I am SHOCKED that this is not the single largest complaint on this thread and all the rest concerning passive changes.
  • Sygil05
    Sygil05
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    Sygil05 wrote: »
    Think we'll get a follow-up within 2 months of the original post?

    Think we'll get a follow-up within 3 months of the original post?
  • paulychan
    paulychan
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    It's moving to a card based combat mechanic
  • The Uninvited
    The Uninvited
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    BollaZee wrote: »
    My feedback: What would really change combat for many people is removal of weapon bar swap. Keep weapon swap for the weapon abilities / stats / bonus but remove the bar swap, add 5 more skill slots to the current bar and map them to 6 to 0. This will change will remove all issues for players. The servers never have low latency and the biggest downfall of that is weaponswap.

    And do more finger acrobatics? Hell no! You know, just for your information, some of us would like to keep moving while using skills.
    Edited by The Uninvited on February 2, 2019 9:46AM
    Pandora's Promise (rip) | LND | Ping Spikes | Velvet Glove | Pactriotic

    Ride the paranoia | All life is pain | Only the grave is real
  • Maura_Neysa
    Maura_Neysa
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    BollaZee wrote: »
    My feedback: What would really change combat for many people is removal of weapon bar swap. Keep weapon swap for the weapon abilities / stats / bonus but remove the bar swap, add 5 more skill slots to the current bar and map them to 6 to 0. This will change will remove all issues for players. The servers never have low latency and the biggest downfall of that is weaponswap.

    And do more finger acrobatics? Hell no! You know, just for your information, some of us would like to keep moving while using skills.

    Not to mention, this is actually impossible since this is a console game too, and there are no more buttons to push. The only option is to bar swap and use the same buttons for new skills
    Maiden Maura - Xbox NA
    Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite)
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe
    Maz Challenger, Shadow Challenger, Faulkreath Challenger, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor
    Major
    Dragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,
    Warden 2x Bow DPS
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord
    Others
    PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt

    Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.


  • Uryel
    Uryel
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    And do more finger acrobatics? Hell no! You know, just for your information, some of us would like to keep moving while using skills.

    You do realise that most MMO have had that settings, skills from 1 to 0, and even the next two keys for most, for like 20 years ? Never prevented anyone to keep moving.
    max_only wrote: »
    Bosmers sneaking past all the dangers in the woods. Come upon a cultist doing a ritual? Sneak past. Come upon a brigand ambush? Sneak past. Come upon a mighty beast? Sneak past. The feeling of “yesssss” when you can squeeze by in tight spaces unnoticed. Sometimes I’m able to take what I need from right under their noses.
  • tagrhm_ESO
    tagrhm_ESO
    Soul Shriven
    NightBlades and all those weapons. I always see or hear about combat changes for the various classes etc. but I was wondering if developers are considering taking what they did for regen ( your highest stat magicka, health, or stamina) and applying it to all weapons. I hate having to use staffs for every magicka build. Why can't I restore magicka with to daggers? They could be magically imbued weapons. The game has all these cool weapons but they force players to choose either magicka - staves or stamina duel wield weapons (most variety) or tank sword and board. If the game is truly suppose to encourage freedom how about letting us, choose our weapons and still enjoy being a magicka based build?
  • Sygil05
    Sygil05
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    Sygil05 wrote: »
    Sygil05 wrote: »
    Think we'll get a follow-up within 2 months of the original post?

    Think we'll get a follow-up within 3 months of the original post?

    Well, now I know the answer - today marks three months since the original post. Is this the new approach? Make promises that aren't delivered on? What was even the point of the original post in this thread, other than to presage the racial passive changes?

    Are we really 2 months through the year still with no long-term plan on combat changes?
  • rexagamemnon
    rexagamemnon
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    @Zos_RobGarrett what is a racial pass?
    Also is there any plans to revisit Imperial passives?
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