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The Wrathstone DLC Game Pack and Update 21 base game patch are now available to test on the PTS! Read the full patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/454456/

Combat Update in U21 - A New Approach

  • Sygil05
    Sygil05
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    Think we'll get a follow-up within 2 months of the original post?
  • WreckfulAbandon
    WreckfulAbandon
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    "Balance pass" is cryptic but if the past is any indicator then it means comprehensive nerfs. Wish they would just come out and say what they're planning.

    giphy.gif

    giphy.gif?cid=3640f6095c2712fe37705a4e3255c443

    tenor.gif?itemid=5348365
    All my comments are regarding PvP
  • katorga
    katorga
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    Racial balancing in ZOS’s vision is just another way to sell more crown store race change tokens.

    This....
  • Savos_Saren
    Savos_Saren
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    katorga wrote: »
    Racial balancing in ZOS’s vision is just another way to sell more crown store race change tokens.

    This....

    Honestly- ZOS could save face by offering one free race change token to each race that may have drastic changes.

    Then, it would actually look like they have quality of their game in mind... rather than pushing for another cash grab.
    Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.

    PC NA AD
    Savos Saren
  • Merlin13KAGL
    Merlin13KAGL
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    katorga wrote: »
    Racial balancing in ZOS’s vision is just another way to sell more crown store race change tokens.

    This....

    Honestly- ZOS could save face by offering one free race change token to each race that may have drastic changes.

    Then, it would actually look like they have quality of their game in mind... rather than pushing for another cash grab.
    You realize if they actually do the racial balance properly, there will be no need for anyone to race change, merely rearrange some passive points?

    EDIT: And what would one free token do across 8/15 characters, other than *** off long-termers even further?

    Edited by Merlin13KAGL on January 2, 2019 11:41AM
    Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...

    Earn it.
    I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
    Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS
  • Aquatorch
    Aquatorch
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    [/quote]You realize if they actually do the racial balance properly, there will be no need for anyone to race change, merely rearrange some passive points?

    EDIT: And what would one free token do across 8/15 characters, other than *** off long-termers even further?

    [/quote]

    You realize that ZoS doesn't balance on purpose right? If there was no need for race change or new character slots, then ZoS' money management team isn't doing their job right. If you nerf a class so hard that people pay to change or pay for a new character slot, then the company wins.

  • Merlin13KAGL
    Merlin13KAGL
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    Aquatorch wrote: »
    You realize that ZoS doesn't balance on purpose right? If there was no need for race change or new character slots, then ZoS' money management team isn't doing their job right. If you nerf a class so hard that people pay to change or pay for a new character slot, then the company wins.
    Not once did I say I had any faith whatsoever they'd get it right.

    You realize if they muck it up hard enough, people will just bail. People ceasing to play the game spend even less.

    Trashing existing character viability won't increase race change sales, it will increase exodus from the game.

    Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...

    Earn it.
    I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
    Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS
  • Maura_Neysa
    Maura_Neysa
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    Aquatorch wrote: »
    You realize that ZoS doesn't balance on purpose right? If there was no need for race change or new character slots, then ZoS' money management team isn't doing their job right. If you nerf a class so hard that people pay to change or pay for a new character slot, then the company wins.
    Not once did I say I had any faith whatsoever they'd get it right.

    You realize if they muck it up hard enough, people will just bail. People ceasing to play the game spend even less.

    Trashing existing character viability won't increase race change sales, it will increase exodus from the game.

    If they muck it up, I'm pretty sure that will be it. SOOOOO many people have bailed because of Murkmire's :rage: up already.
    Still, I expect its a ZoS money grab and I have no faith in it coming out even.
    Maiden Maura - Xbox NA
    Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite)
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe
    Maz Challenger, Shadow Challenger, Faulkreath Challenger, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor
    Major
    Dragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,
    Warden 2x Bow DPS
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord
    Others
    PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt

    Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.


  • ezio45
    ezio45
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    dazee wrote: »
    Kinnahz wrote: »
    Everyone get ready for nerfs to Redguard, Argonian and Dunmers. Start saving your crowns for race change tokens.

    You mean redguard argonian and ALTMERS

    altmer? its only good for sorc and even then its 50/50 with darkelf
  • ezio45
    ezio45
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    katorga wrote: »
    Racial balancing in ZOS’s vision is just another way to sell more crown store race change tokens.

    This....

    Honestly- ZOS could save face by offering one free race change token to each race that may have drastic changes.

    Then, it would actually look like they have quality of their game in mind... rather than pushing for another cash grab.

    no they couldnt, i like my race
  • Quaffio
    Quaffio
    "The unique feeling and flavor each race provides should be retained and enhanced where possible, and remain faithful to established lore."

    Okay, but if you start nerfing races who are strong in magic just to "balance" the game, you are killing the lore then. No race has more magic power than a High Elf. No race is as hardy and tough as a Nord. No race is a stong as an Orc. Etc.

    But we all know ZOS is gonna nerf everything and pretty much remove all race abilities that separate the races into their own strengths and weaknesses. Just cause someone wants to play an Orc Sorc and be able to hang in damage with a High Elf, does not excuse ZOS to destroy a long standing feature in the elder scrolls games.
  • Maura_Neysa
    Maura_Neysa
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    Quaffio wrote: »
    "The unique feeling and flavor each race provides should be retained and enhanced where possible, and remain faithful to established lore."

    Okay, but if you start nerfing races who are strong in magic just to "balance" the game, you are killing the lore then. No race has more magic power than a High Elf. No race is as hardy and tough as a Nord. No race is a stong as an Orc. Etc.

    But we all know ZOS is gonna nerf everything and pretty much remove all race abilities that separate the races into their own strengths and weaknesses. Just cause someone wants to play an Orc Sorc and be able to hang in damage with a High Elf, does not excuse ZOS to destroy a long standing feature in the elder scrolls games.

    That why I am hoping for morphs. One that keeps races playing there BiS role, but one that is more "Balanced" Like chosing Dark Elf kind of is now.

    Like Altmer - Spell Charge 9% Mag Regen, or 5% Mag + 4% Stam
    Even more so than Altmer, Bosmer/Khajti - Stealthy 10% Bonus Damage from Steath, or 2% Reduce damage (all the time)
    This way things are less pigeon holed. Bosmer and Khajti have a whole passive that is worthless unless you are a PvP StamBlade. That's just stupid

    Plenty of room for this. Every "Reduced Damage" passive could be reduce/increase morph. Every 1Stat Max could be 2 Stat max at reduced. My only question would be what to do with current spit stat passives like Orc Brawny 6% Health+Stam
    Maiden Maura - Xbox NA
    Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite)
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe
    Maz Challenger, Shadow Challenger, Faulkreath Challenger, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor
    Major
    Dragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,
    Warden 2x Bow DPS
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord
    Others
    PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt

    Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.


  • IronWooshu
    IronWooshu
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    Quaffio wrote: »
    "The unique feeling and flavor each race provides should be retained and enhanced where possible, and remain faithful to established lore."

    Okay, but if you start nerfing races who are strong in magic just to "balance" the game, you are killing the lore then. No race has more magic power than a High Elf. No race is as hardy and tough as a Nord. No race is a stong as an Orc. Etc.

    But we all know ZOS is gonna nerf everything and pretty much remove all race abilities that separate the races into their own strengths and weaknesses. Just cause someone wants to play an Orc Sorc and be able to hang in damage with a High Elf, does not excuse ZOS to destroy a long standing feature in the elder scrolls games.
    In no way has Bethesda in any Elder Scrolls game allowed certain races to hit higher DPS then others. If you chose a High Elf in Skyrim you start off with higher stats in magicka but in the end someone who made a Redguard could be the exact same.
  • Minno
    Minno
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    Neoauspex wrote: »
    Hello all, and Happy New Year!

    Clearly many of you are chomping at the bit to learn more details about the U21 changes. As mentioned in the Class Rep Meeting Notes, our intent is to provide a more in-depth preview of the racial passive adjustments prior to publishing the patch notes for PTS 1. You can expect that preview in the next couple weeks. The rest of the changes will be detailed in the patch notes.

    As for the long-term plan for Combat, that effort is still in progress and we don't have an ETA right now. As I mentioned before, this is a non-trivial effort and we still have updates to deliver in U21 and beyond.

    Thanks for your patience. It's going to be an exciting year!

    I'll gladly trade a full year of balance changes and content updates for a performance pass on Cyrodiil.

    I think they will have the muscle to do both, honestly. Assuming they use the rep feedback to make changes before PTS and then use PTS to catch bugs/make emergency changes.
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • Lord_Dexter
    Lord_Dexter
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    Hello all, and Happy New Year!

    Clearly many of you are chomping at the bit to learn more details about the U21 changes. As mentioned in the Class Rep Meeting Notes, our intent is to provide a more in-depth preview of the racial passive adjustments prior to publishing the patch notes for PTS 1. You can expect that preview in the next couple weeks. The rest of the changes will be detailed in the patch notes.

    As for the long-term plan for Combat, that effort is still in progress and we don't have an ETA right now. As I mentioned before, this is a non-trivial effort and we still have updates to deliver in U21 and beyond.

    Thanks for your patience. It's going to be an exciting year!

    Unhappy to see Q1 update going to push in February,

  • Royaji
    Royaji
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    Hello all, and Happy New Year!

    Clearly many of you are chomping at the bit to learn more details about the U21 changes. As mentioned in the Class Rep Meeting Notes, our intent is to provide a more in-depth preview of the racial passive adjustments prior to publishing the patch notes for PTS 1. You can expect that preview in the next couple weeks. The rest of the changes will be detailed in the patch notes.

    As for the long-term plan for Combat, that effort is still in progress and we don't have an ETA right now. As I mentioned before, this is a non-trivial effort and we still have updates to deliver in U21 and beyond.

    Thanks for your patience. It's going to be an exciting year!

    Unhappy to see Q1 update going to push in February,

    All of the Q1 DLCs were released mid-February - early-March. What did you expect?
  • Lord_Dexter
    Lord_Dexter
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    Royaji wrote: »
    Hello all, and Happy New Year!

    Clearly many of you are chomping at the bit to learn more details about the U21 changes. As mentioned in the Class Rep Meeting Notes, our intent is to provide a more in-depth preview of the racial passive adjustments prior to publishing the patch notes for PTS 1. You can expect that preview in the next couple weeks. The rest of the changes will be detailed in the patch notes.

    As for the long-term plan for Combat, that effort is still in progress and we don't have an ETA right now. As I mentioned before, this is a non-trivial effort and we still have updates to deliver in U21 and beyond.

    Thanks for your patience. It's going to be an exciting year!

    Unhappy to see Q1 update going to push in February,

    All of the Q1 DLCs were released mid-February - early-March. What did you expect?

    Most Q1 DLC were released in PTS on January but seems like this one pushed into February and will put on Live by March.
  • Solariken
    Solariken
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    What da heck? PTS1 soonest arrival is a 3+ weeks?
  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
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    Solariken wrote: »
    What da heck? PTS1 soonest arrival is a 3+ weeks?

    I suppose that is because they want to discuss the changes with class rep... in the meantime we can keep on playing nerfmire
    The biggest problem within this game is the lack imagination on its player base and its developers...
    DragonKNIGHT KNIGHT!!!! not Dragonscoundrel, neither Dragonarcher....
    ― Our enemy was bold so we were bolder... our enemy was strong so we were stronger...

    ― Then, why did you lose?

    ― Our enemy was stupid...
    Get rid of poison on DKs...
  • JD2013
    JD2013
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    So is it not a good thing that the PTS won’t be for another 3+ weeks? More time for them to work on things.
    Sweetrolls for all!

    Benoit Christophe Raziel III - Breton Mage of Winterhold. Dwemer and Daedric Scholar. EU DC
    Marius Palenix - Imperial Nightblade from Kvatch, Thief, Assassin and Fisherman. EU DC
    Christophe Mottierre - Breton Templar with his own whole darn estate! Templar Houses are so 2015. EU DC

    PC Beta Tester January 2014

    Elder of The Black
    Order of Sithis
    The Runners

    @TamrielTraverse - For Tamriel related Twitter shenanigans!
    https://tamrieltraveller.wordpress.com/

    Crafting bag OP! ZOS nerf pls!
  • Savos_Saren
    Savos_Saren
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    Hello all, and Happy New Year!

    Clearly many of you are chomping at the bit to learn more details about the U21 changes. As mentioned in the Class Rep Meeting Notes, our intent is to provide a more in-depth preview of the racial passive adjustments prior to publishing the patch notes for PTS 1. You can expect that preview in the next couple weeks. The rest of the changes will be detailed in the patch notes.

    As for the long-term plan for Combat, that effort is still in progress and we don't have an ETA right now. As I mentioned before, this is a non-trivial effort and we still have updates to deliver in U21 and beyond.

    Thanks for your patience. It's going to be an exciting year!

    @ZOS_RobGarrett

    Since we've got a couple more weeks before we see the PTS- can you at least give us an idea of how ZOS is planning to adjust racials?

    IE: "In the passives you can choose 10% Stamina or 10% Health at level 20." or "Khajiit can get 8% extra weapon crit or 8% extra spell crit."
    Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.

    PC NA AD
    Savos Saren
  • Sygil05
    Sygil05
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    Hello all, and Happy New Year!

    Clearly many of you are chomping at the bit to learn more details about the U21 changes. As mentioned in the Class Rep Meeting Notes, our intent is to provide a more in-depth preview of the racial passive adjustments prior to publishing the patch notes for PTS 1. You can expect that preview in the next couple weeks. The rest of the changes will be detailed in the patch notes.

    As for the long-term plan for Combat, that effort is still in progress and we don't have an ETA right now. As I mentioned before, this is a non-trivial effort and we still have updates to deliver in U21 and beyond.

    Thanks for your patience. It's going to be an exciting year!

    Thanks for the update, but we're getting close to two months since the original post (and several days into 2019) and we're still being told there isn't a long-term plan for combat in this game, which seems to contradict the intent behind the original post in this thread.

    Using "this is a non-trivial effort and we still have updates to deliver in U21 and beyond." as an excuse on why this isn't done is pretty flimsy, considering the first post in this thread also mentioned that the next update is scaled back to provide developers time to work on this.

    How would this indicate that ZOS is taking "a new approach"? Releasing a transcript of a hurried Class Rep meeting and charging headfirst towards changing up racial passives (seemingly without a long-term plan?) sounds like "the old approach" to me.
  • Minno
    Minno
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    JD2013 wrote: »
    So is it not a good thing that the PTS won’t be for another 3+ weeks? More time for them to work on things.

    That's my understanding. Pts early meant no time to make feedback changes. At least we can speculate that they well be making class rep changes first then pts bugs be second.
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • MaxwellC
    MaxwellC
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    @ZOS_RobGarrett
    Anyone complaining about Major evasion somehow still being too strong is in a serious L2P dilemma that they haven't come to terms with.

    Roll dodge feels unchanged only if conditions meet that requirement i.e the game is not lagging which in PvP is almost 99.1% of the time.
    Still no Dragon Knight changes for the stamina side nor is there any news of classes in general having more stamina choices within their own class, just goes to show priorities here are a bit skewed again.

    Edited by MaxwellC on January 4, 2019 9:45PM
    不動の Steadfast - Unwavering
    XBL Gamer Tag - Maxwell
    XB1 Maxwell Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Redguard Stamina DK
    XB1 Max Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Brenton Magicka DK
    PC Maxwell-Crystal - NA DC - CP 200+ Brenton Magicka DK 「Retired」
    Band Camp statements: To state "But this one time I saw X doing X... so that justifies X" Refers to the Band camp statement.
    Coined by Maxwel
    l
  • Lord_Dexter
    Lord_Dexter
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    Xvorg wrote: »
    Solariken wrote: »
    What da heck? PTS1 soonest arrival is a 3+ weeks?

    I suppose that is because they want to discuss the changes with class rep... in the meantime we can keep on playing nerfmire

    Moat of changes they have finalized already, 1-2 weeks are not enough to discuss changes and then implement.

    Even PTS cycle sees minor adjustments only.
  • ezio45
    ezio45
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    Hello all, and Happy New Year!

    Clearly many of you are chomping at the bit to learn more details about the U21 changes. As mentioned in the Class Rep Meeting Notes, our intent is to provide a more in-depth preview of the racial passive adjustments prior to publishing the patch notes for PTS 1. You can expect that preview in the next couple weeks. The rest of the changes will be detailed in the patch notes.

    As for the long-term plan for Combat, that effort is still in progress and we don't have an ETA right now. As I mentioned before, this is a non-trivial effort and we still have updates to deliver in U21 and beyond.

    Thanks for your patience. It's going to be an exciting year!

    unnerf shields
    up sorc sustain
    dont touch highelf
    decrease damage in heavy
    kill mag tanking give ice an actual use so magden can be happy

    bam combat changes done, send it
  • ll_Rev
    ll_Rev
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    MaxwellC wrote: »
    @ZOS_RobGarrett
    Anyone complaining about Major evasion somehow still being too strong is in a serious L2P dilemma that they haven't come to terms with.

    Roll dodge feels unchanged only if conditions meet that requirement i.e the game is not lagging which in PvP is almost 99.1% of the time.
    Still no Dragon Knight changes for the stamina side nor is there any news of classes in general having more stamina choices within their own class, just goes to show priorities here are a bit skewed again.

    its not a l2p issue evasion affects some classes more than others.
  • MaxwellC
    MaxwellC
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    @ll_Rev
    That's obvious but again last time I checked classes were implemented in this game to differentiate one from another, if something hinders a class more than another (as long as it's not a massive impact) then I call that sound game-play.

    It's like how major mending benefits templars more so than other classes due to their innate ability to heal or how major defile benefits nightblades more since their tool-set is geared towards sustained/high damage.

    Just because one particular class or two is having a disadvantage to reduction of AoE damage in-comparison to all other classes, doesn't mean it's broken so again it's a clear L2P issue.
    不動の Steadfast - Unwavering
    XBL Gamer Tag - Maxwell
    XB1 Maxwell Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Redguard Stamina DK
    XB1 Max Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Brenton Magicka DK
    PC Maxwell-Crystal - NA DC - CP 200+ Brenton Magicka DK 「Retired」
    Band Camp statements: To state "But this one time I saw X doing X... so that justifies X" Refers to the Band camp statement.
    Coined by Maxwel
    l
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