Combat Update in U21 - A New Approach

ZOS_RobGarrett

Hi all,

I wanted to take moment to share some info about how we’re approaching Combat updates in U21.

As you all know, ESO is a massive game with a lot of moving parts. For years the team has been aggressively adding and tweaking various components of combat in an effort to create a great experience for players of all varieties. Every game update includes a series of balance changes, and we regularly introduce new features such as the Skills Advisor and Warden class. A tremendous amount of effort goes into delivering these updates and, while we do sometimes stumble along the way, we’re pretty proud of what the team has accomplished.

In recent months, however, we’ve recognized that we’ve been so focused on “the next update” that we haven’t had much time to consider and flesh out what the next year+ of combat updates should look like. We often see posts on the forums requesting further context on balance changes, and asking how they fit into a larger plan and vision for combat. While we do have a backlog of improvements identified for the game, it’s clear we could do a better job of answering those kinds of inquiries, both for the player community and ourselves.

To that effect, the team is currently investing a portion of its time into codifying our vision and long-term strategy for combat. This is not a trivial task because, as mentioned before, the game is huge and there’s a lot to cover with combat. As such, we’re pulling back on the volume of combat balance changes being introduced in U21 compared to previous updates. Currently our planned changes for the update include:

• New item sets for our Q1 2019 DLC
• Redesigns for several PvP item sets that are currently rarely used
• A balance pass on racial passive abilities
• A small number of other balance changes, many of which are wrapping up efforts the team took on in U20
• An assortment of bug fixes

We’re currently in the process of sharing the details of these changes with the Class Reps to get feedback ahead of PTS, which won’t start until the new year. However, we wanted to give you a heads up now so the smaller list of changes doesn’t come as a surprise when the PTS1 patch notes drop. In time we’ll also want to share more about the vision and strategy that will drive future combat updates. To be clear, this is simply a momentary deceleration of changes while we evaluate the state of combat and determine how to proceed. We are nowhere near done updating and improving the game.

I’m guessing many of you will be interested to know more about the racial balance changes. While we aren’t ready to share specific details yet, here’s a peek at the goals driving the team’s effort:

• When selecting a race, players should have multiple effective options for any given gameplay role.
• The combat power provided by each race should be more equalized.
• Players should feel a stronger sense of power progression through racial passives as they level up.
• The unique feeling and flavor each race provides should be retained and enhanced where possible, and remain faithful to established lore.

That's all for now. Feedback, as always, is welcome.

actosh

@ZOS_RobGarrett Does this mean, that we still need to wait another eternity until u make all Tanks/Healers wanted in trial progression groups ( give them the needed tools and support)?

Thx for sharing stuff like that.

adirondack

Could this be an opportune time to address some long standing bugs as the team reduces the amount of changes in the near term? If so what bugs are near the top of your list?

IlCanis_LupuslI

I really hope that racial passives get changed from percentage values to flat values & useless passives like extra stealth damage get changed into something less class specific. Also I'd like 2 see all class passives not require any abilities to be slotted

cpuScientist

Oh boy here we go!

Thanks for the update. Sad many classes will have to wait 2 updates now for needed fixes...

Neoauspex

Multiple effective options... Racial passive morphs?

actosh

cpuScientist wrote: »

Oh boy here we go!

Thanks for the update. Sad many classes will have to wait 2 updates now for needed fixes...

Not only classes, but different playstyles have to wait to. I appreciate the bugfixing stuff, but for the rest well see.

cpuScientist

Deaccelerate then pump the gas with sweeping changes come the next chapter!

Turelus

Interesting... We'll still have the Dunmer Master Race though right? Please?

Thanks Rob, these are the kinds of updates which help give people an idea where game direction is going.

Edit: Whilst looking at racial balancing can you please go and take a look at the Orc Craftsman skill. Whilst it's awesome for new characters it's the only racial passive which doesn't remain useful throughout the game (once you've leveled all crafting skills it's useless).

Mureel

actosh wrote: »

@ZOS_RobGarrett Does this mean, that we still need to wait another eternity until u make all Tanks/Healers wanted in trial progression groups ( give them the needed tools and support)?

Thx for sharing stuff like that.

I think I misunderstand...in trials, tanks and healers are always welcome.

If you’re with a group who wants Templar or DK skills, then roll one of those.

I am not willing to back a nerf to my class skills, in order to buff others’ yet again.

The issue right now is lack of need of healer roles in dlc dungeons.

That’s still ongoing since many years.

In the end I know I have no say or control; but my class (Templar) has already been nerfed to the floor and had our skills changed and our passives handed out willy nilly.

Looking forward to more news as it’s available!

macsmooth

Honestly I don’t care about racial passives because it will cost me how much in crown store to change my race for 12 characters that’s not really viable

But what I and others would like is the answers to all the questions form Murkmire update not a glimpse at to come

Chufu

ZOS_RobGarrett wrote: »

• A balance pass on racial passive abilities

I’m guessing many of you will be interested to know more about the racial balance changes. While we aren’t ready to share specific details yet, here’s a peek at the goals driving the team’s effort:

• When selecting a race, players should have multiple effective options for any given gameplay role.
• The combat power provided by each race should be more equalized.
• Players should feel a stronger sense of power progression through racial passives as they level up.
• The unique feeling and flavor each race provides should be retained and enhanced where possible, and remain faithful to established lore.

That's all for now. Feedback, as always, is welcome.

ORCS ORCS ORCS ORCS ORCS!

The new master race for everything, okay? Tank, Heal, DD no problem.

Audens

Update 21, time to nerf Redguards again omegalul

Royaji

I see a nerf to redguards and a lot of angry sorcs in our future.

Kanar

Chufu wrote: »

ZOS_RobGarrett wrote: »

• A balance pass on racial passive abilities

I’m guessing many of you will be interested to know more about the racial balance changes. While we aren’t ready to share specific details yet, here’s a peek at the goals driving the team’s effort:

• When selecting a race, players should have multiple effective options for any given gameplay role.
• The combat power provided by each race should be more equalized.
• Players should feel a stronger sense of power progression through racial passives as they level up.
• The unique feeling and flavor each race provides should be retained and enhanced where possible, and remain faithful to established lore.

That's all for now. Feedback, as always, is welcome.

ORCS ORCS ORCS ORCS ORCS!

The new master race for everything, okay? Tank, Heal, DD no problem.

Melee heals receive +4% healing.

Audens wrote: »

Update 21, time to nerf Redguards again omegalul

About time.

MacMurroughTheFirst

"When selecting a race, players should have multiple effective options for any given gameplay role."

"The unique feeling and flavor each race provides should be retained and enhanced where possible, and remain faithful to established lore."

These sound like two very interesting ideas. I'm curious to find out more about this.

frostz417

At this point I don’t care for balance. Just fix the damn bugs PLEASE!

frostz417

Royaji wrote: »

I see a nerf to redguards and a lot of angry sorcs in our future.

Guarantee red guards, argonians, and high elves getting nerfed

Sanctum74

Hopefully the bug fixes don't continue to stay on the bottom of the list. All the well intentioned changes in the world don't mean anything when the core game mechanics are broken.

I'd be happy with the next update if I could just switch bars, use a skill, drink a potion, or not have to wait 7 minutes to call my mount because I'm stuck in combat.

Cinbri

Nerf godzillas, they unstoppable currently.

idk

No offense, but considering the seemingly lack of direction Zos has had with these changes, leading to heavy handed changes, I do not see that the message offered in this thread offers anything meaningful.

I think we all know we can expect more heavy handed changes from a group that is challenged playing their own game just as we say a month ago and multiple times this past year and before.

As long as Zos lacks a vision yet uses the word loosely this will not change. Real change starts with the leadership. Zos needs some.

Moonsorrow

@ZOS_RobGarrett

Sounds good and big thanks to you for communicating about all of this with us.

I`m "guilty" personally on asking and hoping here on the forum that your crew would be atleast a bit more open about the big picture on whats your vision and the future of the games combat obviously because of that. So i am VERY glad to read your message now, as i was when @ZOS_Gilliam did his post about the enchant mechanics changes little while ago.

Communication like this feels good and in my opinion takes us, the players, more in to the circle of knowledge about future. Often small adjustments is a lot better than huge game changers too often, especially without knowing why and getting the feeling that "no one wanted this..".

It`s obvious that all games like this needs itemization changes (new sets to go after and try), but too big changes to combat mechanics that almost make or break classes, in example demolishing class defining skills (too big nerfs, too big buffs in a back and forth cycle that seems to have no reason or a plan on where it should go or end up) should not be a thing that keeps the game fresh, rolling the FOTM class/race after previous one was nerfed hard should not be "content" for hamsters to keep running the wheel.

Your job is not easy though, to try and keep the game fun and challenging for all different kinds of players and playstyles.. but i think right now this is the best MMO game, getting new content with fast schedule and lots of nice QoL improvements all the time, game looks awesome, graphically the lighting effects, weather, sound/ambience and music are top quality. Immersion is great. Big siege battles at Cyrodiil can make one feel being in some fantasy movies epic fights.

Personal request: I hope your combat team does not read all the forums "nerf this and that" messages. Or if do, please use them only as memes that you laugh at together while enjoying morning coffee instead of acting up on them.

Cheers, and have a nice week Rob!

Gythral

Sounds like more stamblade master, nerf everything while still not addressing the real issues
like the BUGS

Lord_Eomer

Thank You @ZOS_RobGarrett for update,

Current racial passives influence players to choose race for their role,

For Example:

PVE Magicka DPS mostly chooses from Altmer/Dumner or Breton, why shall not choose Khajit?, because Carnage passive will be useless and its good to miss. Reaper's March have lot of Khajit NPC mages.

PVE Tank mostly chooses from Argonian, Imperial, Nord or Orc, why shall not choose Bomser?, because its racial passives are not useful for tanking.

Racial passives should be balanced in way that every race can be used for any role (Magicka/Stamina DPS, Tank or Healer)

Coolio_Wolfus

I think it's going to be along the lines of different tribes and racial types, just look at Murkmire...

Various argonian tribes, some with wings (can't fly, speed+leaping & less fall damage)
Some more like chamelions, stealthier, etc.

As for Khajitti plenty of suitable subraces there.

And the rest, down to character caste choices, an example being a pure Summerset Altmer, a more relaxed Auridon Altmer or one born Elsweyr (or another locale).

Royaji

Coolio_Wolfus wrote: »

I think it's going to be along the lines of different tribes and racial types, just look at Murkmire...

Various argonian tribes, some with wings (can't fly, speed+leaping & less fall damage)
Some more like chamelions, stealthier, etc.

As for Khajitti plenty of suitable subraces there.

And the rest, down to character caste choices, an example being a pure Summerset Altmer, a more relaxed Auridon Altmer or one born Elsweyr (or another locale).

Probably not. Just a simple tweak with numbers and changing some outlier passives.

NBrookus

Fix the bugs, THEN change the combat once bugs are fixed? Sounds good.

Kanar wrote: »

Chufu wrote: »

ORCS ORCS ORCS ORCS ORCS!

The new master race for everything, okay? Tank, Heal, DD no problem.

Melee heals receive +4% healing.

Damn straight... about time my magDK orc became meta.

CyrusArya

Royaji wrote: »

I see a nerf to redguards and a lot of angry sorcs in our future.

No way, Redguard has been nerfed over and over. As it stands, Redguard has a slight advantage in PvE while being a very balanced race in PvP. The better route would be to buff the PvE sustain of some other races. Redguard is ideally the power level other races should be at.

The only races which are actually overloaded when it comes to stats, especially in a PvP context, are Orc and Argonian.

This is how I personally see racial strength:

Overtuned- Orc, Argonian
Well tuned- Redguard, High Elf, Dark Elf, Khajiit, Wood Elf, Breton
Undertuned- Imperial, Nord

Lord_Eomer

NBrookus wrote: »

Fix the bugs, THEN change the combat once bugs are fixed? Sounds good.

Kanar wrote: »

Chufu wrote: »

ORCS ORCS ORCS ORCS ORCS!

The new master race for everything, okay? Tank, Heal, DD no problem.

Melee heals receive +4% healing.

Damn straight... about time my magDK orc became meta.

Well there are really not many bugs except lags and long loading screens.

in Combat bug not letting players mount will hopefully fix soon.

Royaji

CyrusArya wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

I see a nerf to redguards and a lot of angry sorcs in our future.

No way, Redguard has been nerfed over and over. As it stands, Redguard has a slight advantage in PvE while being a very balanced race in PvP. The better route would be to buff the PvE sustain of some other races. Redguard is ideally the power level other races should be at.

The only races which are actually overloaded when it comes to stats, especially in a PvP context, are Orc and Argonian.

This is how I personally see racial strength:

Overtuned- Orc, Argonian
Well tuned- Redguard, High Elf, Dark Elf, Khajiit, Wood Elf, Breton
Undertuned- Imperial, Nord

We've heard the same story with class balance. "NB is fine, just buff other classes to their level." Yeah, let's see how that went. Redguard, High Elf and probably Argonian are all getting nerfs. This is going to be the sad truth.

valeriiya

idk wrote: »

No offense, but considering the seemingly lack of direction Zos has had with these changes, leading to heavy handed changes, I do not see that the message offered in this thread offers anything meaningful.

I think we all know we can expect more heavy handed changes from a group that is challenged playing their own game just as we say a month ago and multiple times this past year and before.

As long as Zos lacks a vision yet uses the word loosely this will not change. Real change starts with the leadership. Zos needs some.

I agree. My first thought was that it's too late, then realizing that any time they make a change we're also gifted with horrible lag and glitches. One step forward, two steps back with ZO$. I hope these changes will be meaningful but based on the track record, I'm not expecting anything great.