Upcoming Racial Balance Changes for Update 21
-
Kalle_Demos✭✭✭✭✭I agree with the sentiment expressed by other players regarding lore, diversity and uniqueness. The proposed changes seem to accomplish the opposite of goals stated. Changes to Bosmer stealth, Dunmer elemental damage and magic nerf, Argonian resistance and other examples covered in previous posts are contrary to long established lore, limit diversity and strip the various races of the unique flavor and unique play styles that they have been known for and that players have built upon for years.
I also noticed that we are being hit with more nerfs. Spending our time leveling, collecting sets, etc only to become weaker again and again with every update is not fun. Learning that the racials we based builds and characters on are being nerfed, rearranged and in some cases gutted is much less fun. Highlighting this post to point out that players attachment to our characters go beyond math:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/455138/passive-aggression-against-the-bosmer-a-letter-to-the-developers/p1
"If I am to be Queen, I must look fear in the face and conquer it. How can I ask my people to have faith in me if I don't have faith in myself?" - Queen Ayrenn5 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NobleMatias wrote: »Cundu_Ertur wrote: »NobleMatias wrote: »TheRealPotoroo wrote: »NobleMatias wrote: »The video I posted above has literally all the races within 2% of each other. If your going to choose a race because you want a laughable 2% more dps, then your pretty shallow in my opinion.
You didn't address rampant stupidity like Bosmers losing their stealth bonus. Yet again PVE gets screwed because of PVP.
Bosmer now have a mechanic that allows them to be the fastest resource harvesters in the game. Please for the love of god stop complaining about the Bosmer's stealth being taken away. they are given other special skills to make up, and for you to complain about 3m of detect just makes me laugh so damn much. The Bosmer race literally got a buff when comparing all the race changes, quit crying.
Please for the love of God stop trying to dismiss other people's opinions because they have the temerity to not agree with your perfect all-knowing wisdom. (note, the description of your wisdom is sarcastic icymi)
The fact is, that despite saying "so we kept parts of each the Wood Elf’s and the Khajiit’s version of these passives," the devs in actually completely removed stealth bonus from the Bosmer entirely. The statement of the intent and the result do not match. We are completely within our rights to point this out. We are also within our rights to point out the substantial lore that says that Wood Elves are adept at stealth. We are within our rights to point out how this lore, and our experience with other games, informed our choices regarding this race and how we choose to play it. You do NOT get to dictate to us how we choose to play, how we choose to feel, or how we choose to express our deep dissatisfaction with the change as it currently stands.
Yes, we got some significant benefit from this change, as do the Khajiit. That's not the issue. The issue is that we are losing something that is core to how many people see the Bosmer as a race. It is like telling Redguards that they are no longer masters of weapons but magic instead.
I will be an constructive as possible because it seems I am hurting some persons feelings.
In the case of a Bosmer and a Khajiit. What has replaced the stealth damage a and sneak potential? Bosmer now are able to roll dodge and gain a 20% boost to speed, I can imagine them playing with their victims regarding certain sets, and are able to spot enemies at 3m the cost of a 3m sneak. Khajiit on the other hand have always been the sneakiest In every Elder Scrolls entry, hence why they still have their sneaky style. Neither have the damage bonus as before, and both are based on lore. Bosmer being that they turn into ravenous hunting beasts if you mess with their forest, and khajit for being master thief's with a whole back story and Daedric Items to back it up.
I would trade 3m of stealth for a 20% speed boost any day. I know majority who love the changes are not on the forums voicing frustrations when simply should not be as big a deal, so peeps should be calm. Now it would be warranted if people of which I will not mention, can back the statements with proof, data, and statistics, this will make me and many others take what is said more seriously. I have shown these. The Bosmer race will still be viable in a sneaky role and honestly be able to roll out of danger and pop into sneak mode with a 20% speed boost. This enables a quick getaway.
I am trying to show everyone that the team at ZOS have really number crunched on the races while providing unique buffs, and they are indeed balanced. Every race is now viable. But of course tweaking would not hurt for the sake of diversity. I could name a ton of lore related reasons to tweak the races.
I am scratching my head on why you think this argument of yours will win any converts. I don’t think you are quite grasping why people are upset with the Bosmer change. The addition of the roll, or the bonus damage from stealth, or what ever, is immaterial. It appears to me no one who is arguing for Bosmers to retain their stealth actually cares what the second half of the passive is.
The point is that bosmers are sneaky and the players who play bosmers like to play sneaky characters. That is what they care about. Not combat. Nor about characters that roll around a lot.
The stealth functionality is being nerfed for bosmers, and ONLY for bosmers. Everyone other race is having their stealth ability stay the same or it’s being boosted.
The roll mechanic is ok. I think rolling in eso is clumsily implemented so when I actually roll it’s by accident. So right now, on live, I have a two part racial I am getting a lot of use of, and it’s changing to a two part racial I will get little use of. So yes I am going to complain.
But even then, if I could only keep part of the old racial I would keep the stealth. In fact if it was changed to 6m of stealth and NOTHING ELSE I would not complain.
To sum up; The stealth mechanic is important to other players. Right now it is being nerfed for them (and me) and they are upset about it (as am I). We don’t care about the roll/speed boost. Stealth is what’s fun.
Edited by BlueRaven on January 25, 2019 11:14PM9 -
NobleMatias✭✭I will be an constructive as possible because it seems I am hurting some persons feelings.
In the case of a Bosmer and a Khajiit. What has replaced the stealth damage a and sneak potential? Bosmer now are able to roll dodge and gain a 20% boost to speed, I can imagine them playing with their victims regarding certain sets, and are able to spot enemies at 3m the cost of a 3m sneak. Khajiit on the other hand have always been the sneakiest In every Elder Scrolls entry, hence why they still have their sneaky style. Neither have the damage bonus as before, and both are based on lore. Bosmer being that they turn into ravenous hunting beasts if you mess with their forest, and khajit for being master thief's with a whole back story and Daedric Items to back it up.
I would trade 3m of stealth for a 20% speed boost any day. I know majority who love the changes are not on the forums voicing frustrations when simply should not be as big a deal, so peeps should be calm. Now it would be warranted if people of which I will not mention, can back the statements with proof, data, and statistics, this will make me and many others take what is said more seriously. I have shown these. The Bosmer race will still be viable in a sneaky role and honestly be able to roll out of danger and pop into sneak mode with a 20% speed boost. This enables a quick getaway.
I am trying to show everyone that the team at ZOS have really number crunched on the races while providing unique buffs, and they are indeed balanced. Every race is now viable. But of course tweaking would not hurt for the sake of diversity. I could name a ton of lore related reasons to tweak the races.
I am scratching my head on why you think this argument of yours will win any converts. I don’t think you are quite grasping why people are upset with the Bosmer change. The addition of the roll, or the bonus damage from stealth, or what ever, is immaterial. It appears to me no one who is arguing for Bosmers to retain their stealth actually cares what the second half of the passive is.
The point is that bosmers are sneaky and the players who play bosmers like to play a sneaky characters. That is what they care about. Not combat. Nor about characters that roll around a lot.
The stealth functionality is being nerfed for bosmers, and ONLY for bosmers. Everyone other race is having their stealth ability stay the same or it’s being boosted.
The roll mechanic is ok. I think rolling in eso is clumsily implemented so when I actually roll it’s by accident. So right now, on live, I have a two part racial I am getting a lot of use of, and it’s changing to a two part racial I will get little use of. So yes I am going to complain.
But even then, if I could only keep part of the old racial I would keep the stealth. In fact if it was changed to 6m of stealth and NOTHING ELSE I would not complain.
To sum up; The stealth mechanic is important to other players. Right now it is being nerfed for them (and me) and they are upset about it (as am I). We don’t care about the roll/speed boost. Stealth is what’s fun.
[/quote]
I have been winning people over almost since this race post was posted. You and others can disagree and complain all you want until your blue in the face but unless you can provide an alternative for the whole of the ESO community, not just the people who play Bosmer and like a little bit of stealth, that can change a Bosmer to be more unique compared to other races, then all I hear is people complaining because that is the race they play.
Provide proof that 3m in sneak is a huge deal, and that 20% speed boost into a Nightblades sneak skill is not better for sneaking. How is a 6m Bosmer stealth different from a Khajiit's 5m? Can you make a mechanic that makes a Bosmer have a unique stealth buff? Will that mechanic match the others in lore and balance? You also blatantly disregard people who play with a game pad or controller as for such roll dodging is quite easy and useful, and not a clumsy on accident mistake. It was built into the game for a reason, and a lot of the ESO community play on console as well.
As I conclude all I hear really is gripes, no constructive thoughts. They are saying give me what I want now, not maybe you can make it better this way. All races matter in this game, as do all players, and pandering to the vocal minority is def not the way to go about it. Attack, or I mean talk to me with reason, and thought provoking analogies.
0 -
Cundu_Ertur✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NobleMatias wrote: »Cundu_Ertur wrote: »NobleMatias wrote: »TheRealPotoroo wrote: »NobleMatias wrote: »The video I posted above has literally all the races within 2% of each other. If your going to choose a race because you want a laughable 2% more dps, then your pretty shallow in my opinion.
You didn't address rampant stupidity like Bosmers losing their stealth bonus. Yet again PVE gets screwed because of PVP.
Bosmer now have a mechanic that allows them to be the fastest resource harvesters in the game. Please for the love of god stop complaining about the Bosmer's stealth being taken away. they are given other special skills to make up, and for you to complain about 3m of detect just makes me laugh so damn much. The Bosmer race literally got a buff when comparing all the race changes, quit crying.
Please for the love of God stop trying to dismiss other people's opinions because they have the temerity to not agree with your perfect all-knowing wisdom. (note, the description of your wisdom is sarcastic icymi)
The fact is, that despite saying "so we kept parts of each the Wood Elf’s and the Khajiit’s version of these passives," the devs in actually completely removed stealth bonus from the Bosmer entirely. The statement of the intent and the result do not match. We are completely within our rights to point this out. We are also within our rights to point out the substantial lore that says that Wood Elves are adept at stealth. We are within our rights to point out how this lore, and our experience with other games, informed our choices regarding this race and how we choose to play it. You do NOT get to dictate to us how we choose to play, how we choose to feel, or how we choose to express our deep dissatisfaction with the change as it currently stands.
Yes, we got some significant benefit from this change, as do the Khajiit. That's not the issue. The issue is that we are losing something that is core to how many people see the Bosmer as a race. It is like telling Redguards that they are no longer masters of weapons but magic instead.
Khajiit on the other hand have always been the sneakiest In every Elder Scrolls entry, hence why they still have their sneaky style.
Gotta go for a while, but had to ask: wanna bet? C'mon, you know you wanna.
Taking stealth away from the Bosmer is like taking magic away from the Altmer, making Nords allergic to mead, or making Orcs pretty.2 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NobleMatias wrote: »I will be an constructive as possible because it seems I am hurting some persons feelings.
In the case of a Bosmer and a Khajiit. What has replaced the stealth damage a and sneak potential? Bosmer now are able to roll dodge and gain a 20% boost to speed, I can imagine them playing with their victims regarding certain sets, and are able to spot enemies at 3m the cost of a 3m sneak. Khajiit on the other hand have always been the sneakiest In every Elder Scrolls entry, hence why they still have their sneaky style. Neither have the damage bonus as before, and both are based on lore. Bosmer being that they turn into ravenous hunting beasts if you mess with their forest, and khajit for being master thief's with a whole back story and Daedric Items to back it up.
I would trade 3m of stealth for a 20% speed boost any day. I know majority who love the changes are not on the forums voicing frustrations when simply should not be as big a deal, so peeps should be calm. Now it would be warranted if people of which I will not mention, can back the statements with proof, data, and statistics, this will make me and many others take what is said more seriously. I have shown these. The Bosmer race will still be viable in a sneaky role and honestly be able to roll out of danger and pop into sneak mode with a 20% speed boost. This enables a quick getaway.
I am trying to show everyone that the team at ZOS have really number crunched on the races while providing unique buffs, and they are indeed balanced. Every race is now viable. But of course tweaking would not hurt for the sake of diversity. I could name a ton of lore related reasons to tweak the races.
I am scratching my head on why you think this argument of yours will win any converts. I don’t think you are quite grasping why people are upset with the Bosmer change. The addition of the roll, or the bonus damage from stealth, or what ever, is immaterial. It appears to me no one who is arguing for Bosmers to retain their stealth actually cares what the second half of the passive is.
The point is that bosmers are sneaky and the players who play bosmers like to play a sneaky characters. That is what they care about. Not combat. Nor about characters that roll around a lot.
The stealth functionality is being nerfed for bosmers, and ONLY for bosmers. Everyone other race is having their stealth ability stay the same or it’s being boosted.
The roll mechanic is ok. I think rolling in eso is clumsily implemented so when I actually roll it’s by accident. So right now, on live, I have a two part racial I am getting a lot of use of, and it’s changing to a two part racial I will get little use of. So yes I am going to complain.
But even then, if I could only keep part of the old racial I would keep the stealth. In fact if it was changed to 6m of stealth and NOTHING ELSE I would not complain.
To sum up; The stealth mechanic is important to other players. Right now it is being nerfed for them (and me) and they are upset about it (as am I). We don’t care about the roll/speed boost. Stealth is what’s fun.
I have been winning people over almost since this race post was posted. You and others can disagree and complain all you want until your blue in the face but unless you can provide an alternative for the whole of the ESO community, not just the people who play Bosmer and like a little bit of stealth, that can change a Bosmer to be more unique compared to other races, then all I hear is people complaining because that is the race they play.
Provide proof that 3m in sneak is a huge deal, and that 20% speed boost into a Nightblades sneak skill is not better for sneaking. How is a 6m Bosmer stealth different from a Khajiit's 5m? Can you make a mechanic that makes a Bosmer have a unique stealth buff? Will that mechanic match the others in lore and balance? You also blatantly disregard people who play with a game pad or controller as for such roll dodging is quite easy and useful, and not a clumsy on accident mistake. It was built into the game for a reason, and a lot of the ESO community play on console as well.
As I conclude all I hear really is gripes, no constructive thoughts. They are saying give me what I want now, not maybe you can make it better this way. All races matter in this game, as do all players, and pandering to the vocal minority is def not the way to go about it. Attack, or I mean talk to me with reason, and thought provoking analogies.
[/quote]
You want to see numbers? Fine.
3m of additional stealth > 0m of additional stealth. It’s a full 3m better actually (I thought that was obvious).
Show me your numbers that say 0m of extra stealth is better then the 3m of extra stealth. Remember, roll boost has nothing to do with stealth.
3 -
NobleMatias✭✭Cundu_Ertur wrote: »NobleMatias wrote: »Cundu_Ertur wrote: »NobleMatias wrote: »TheRealPotoroo wrote: »NobleMatias wrote: »The video I posted above has literally all the races within 2% of each other. If your going to choose a race because you want a laughable 2% more dps, then your pretty shallow in my opinion.
You didn't address rampant stupidity like Bosmers losing their stealth bonus. Yet again PVE gets screwed because of PVP.
Bosmer now have a mechanic that allows them to be the fastest resource harvesters in the game. Please for the love of god stop complaining about the Bosmer's stealth being taken away. they are given other special skills to make up, and for you to complain about 3m of detect just makes me laugh so damn much. The Bosmer race literally got a buff when comparing all the race changes, quit crying.
Please for the love of God stop trying to dismiss other people's opinions because they have the temerity to not agree with your perfect all-knowing wisdom. (note, the description of your wisdom is sarcastic icymi)
The fact is, that despite saying "so we kept parts of each the Wood Elf’s and the Khajiit’s version of these passives," the devs in actually completely removed stealth bonus from the Bosmer entirely. The statement of the intent and the result do not match. We are completely within our rights to point this out. We are also within our rights to point out the substantial lore that says that Wood Elves are adept at stealth. We are within our rights to point out how this lore, and our experience with other games, informed our choices regarding this race and how we choose to play it. You do NOT get to dictate to us how we choose to play, how we choose to feel, or how we choose to express our deep dissatisfaction with the change as it currently stands.
Yes, we got some significant benefit from this change, as do the Khajiit. That's not the issue. The issue is that we are losing something that is core to how many people see the Bosmer as a race. It is like telling Redguards that they are no longer masters of weapons but magic instead.
Khajiit on the other hand have always been the sneakiest In every Elder Scrolls entry, hence why they still have their sneaky style.
Gotta go for a while, but had to ask: wanna bet? C'mon, you know you wanna.
Yea sure, you wanna play that game.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Khajiit
Suthay-raht are the kitties we have seen In almost every Elder Scrolls game, and I assume the ones in ESO, with no other racial difference other than skin change in the character creator, until now. This means I win right?
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Ring_of_Khajiiti
A powerful ring just for them sneaky pests.
Besides that point I It would be pretty cool to bring in all the racial differences and play styles of all the different kitties. I mean their might someone out there wanting to play a common house cat right?0 -
NobleMatias✭✭Sorry about the typos and missed words, I am in a position where I have to be quick lol.0
-
NobleMatias✭✭
You want to see numbers? Fine.NobleMatias wrote: »I will be an constructive as possible because it seems I am hurting some persons feelings.
In the case of a Bosmer and a Khajiit. What has replaced the stealth damage a and sneak potential? Bosmer now are able to roll dodge and gain a 20% boost to speed, I can imagine them playing with their victims regarding certain sets, and are able to spot enemies at 3m the cost of a 3m sneak. Khajiit on the other hand have always been the sneakiest In every Elder Scrolls entry, hence why they still have their sneaky style. Neither have the damage bonus as before, and both are based on lore. Bosmer being that they turn into ravenous hunting beasts if you mess with their forest, and khajit for being master thief's with a whole back story and Daedric Items to back it up.
I would trade 3m of stealth for a 20% speed boost any day. I know majority who love the changes are not on the forums voicing frustrations when simply should not be as big a deal, so peeps should be calm. Now it would be warranted if people of which I will not mention, can back the statements with proof, data, and statistics, this will make me and many others take what is said more seriously. I have shown these. The Bosmer race will still be viable in a sneaky role and honestly be able to roll out of danger and pop into sneak mode with a 20% speed boost. This enables a quick getaway.
I am trying to show everyone that the team at ZOS have really number crunched on the races while providing unique buffs, and they are indeed balanced. Every race is now viable. But of course tweaking would not hurt for the sake of diversity. I could name a ton of lore related reasons to tweak the races.
I am scratching my head on why you think this argument of yours will win any converts. I don’t think you are quite grasping why people are upset with the Bosmer change. The addition of the roll, or the bonus damage from stealth, or what ever, is immaterial. It appears to me no one who is arguing for Bosmers to retain their stealth actually cares what the second half of the passive is.
The point is that bosmers are sneaky and the players who play bosmers like to play a sneaky characters. That is what they care about. Not combat. Nor about characters that roll around a lot.
The stealth functionality is being nerfed for bosmers, and ONLY for bosmers. Everyone other race is having their stealth ability stay the same or it’s being boosted.
The roll mechanic is ok. I think rolling in eso is clumsily implemented so when I actually roll it’s by accident. So right now, on live, I have a two part racial I am getting a lot of use of, and it’s changing to a two part racial I will get little use of. So yes I am going to complain.
But even then, if I could only keep part of the old racial I would keep the stealth. In fact if it was changed to 6m of stealth and NOTHING ELSE I would not complain.
To sum up; The stealth mechanic is important to other players. Right now it is being nerfed for them (and me) and they are upset about it (as am I). We don’t care about the roll/speed boost. Stealth is what’s fun.
I have been winning people over almost since this race post was posted. You and others can disagree and complain all you want until your blue in the face but unless you can provide an alternative for the whole of the ESO community, not just the people who play Bosmer and like a little bit of stealth, that can change a Bosmer to be more unique compared to other races, then all I hear is people complaining because that is the race they play.
Provide proof that 3m in sneak is a huge deal, and that 20% speed boost into a Nightblades sneak skill is not better for sneaking. How is a 6m Bosmer stealth different from a Khajiit's 5m? Can you make a mechanic that makes a Bosmer have a unique stealth buff? Will that mechanic match the others in lore and balance? You also blatantly disregard people who play with a game pad or controller as for such roll dodging is quite easy and useful, and not a clumsy on accident mistake. It was built into the game for a reason, and a lot of the ESO community play on console as well.
As I conclude all I hear really is gripes, no constructive thoughts. They are saying give me what I want now, not maybe you can make it better this way. All races matter in this game, as do all players, and pandering to the vocal minority is def not the way to go about it. Attack, or I mean talk to me with reason, and thought provoking analogies.
3m of additional stealth > 0m of additional stealth. It’s a full 3m better actually (I thought that was obvious).
Show me your numbers that say 0m of extra stealth is better then the 3m of extra stealth. Remember, roll boost has nothing to do with stealth.
[/quote]
Stop playing into your own mind games and read. I said compare it to roll dodging speed boost and going into a sneak mode. No saltyness please.0 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NobleMatias wrote: »
Stop playing into your own mind games and read. I said compare it to roll dodging speed boost and going into a sneak mode. No saltyness please.
No one cares about the roll. How is this hard for you to understand? The roll and speed does not matter.
It’s like you are trying to say socks are more useful then legos. Or as someone else said a sledgehammer is more useful at breaking rocks then a bike, when we just want the bike.
The roll does not get you by mobs with out them seeing you.
Sneaking is what a Bosmer IS. It’s what they DO. It’s what the lore says they do, it’s why people play them. No one created a Bosmer because they thought “Maybe one day we will get a roll speed boost! Until then I guess I will just have to live with the stealth boost.” They made their bosmers to be sneaky!
Their lore says they steal things. There is quests in the game that require stealth. Stealth is useful to get into delves without being seen and not every Bosmer is a NB or a vampire.
Stealth and combat mechanics are not the same thing. Stealth boost is more like the argonians swim boost or the kahjit pick pocket buff. It’s something that is intrinsic to the race across many ES games. It’s their bedrock that all the other abilities should spring from.
The roll is just a gimmick. It’s a “sure whatever” mechanic that has no soul. If tomorrow it turned into a sprint, block, or a jump mechanic, it would mean the same thing to Bosmer lore. In other words it means nothing to Bosmer or what they are.10 -
NobleMatias✭✭NobleMatias wrote: »
Stop playing into your own mind games and read. I said compare it to roll dodging speed boost and going into a sneak mode. No saltyness please.
No one cares about the roll. How is this hard for you to understand? The roll and speed does not matter.
It’s like you are trying to say socks are more useful then legos. Or as someone else said a sledgehammer is more useful at breaking rocks then a bike, when we just want the bike.
The roll does not get you by mobs with out them seeing you.
Sneaking is what a Bosmer IS. It’s what they DO. It’s what the lore says they do, it’s why people play them. No one created a Bosmer because they thought “Maybe one day we will get a roll speed boost! Until then I guess I will just have to live with the stealth boost.” They made their bosmers to be sneaky!
Their lore says they steal things. There is quests in the game that require stealth. Stealth is useful to get into delves without being seen and not every Bosmer is a NB or a vampire.
Stealth and combat mechanics are not the same thing. Stealth boost is more like the argonians swim boost or the kahjit pick pocket buff. It’s something that is intrinsic to the race across many ES games. It’s their bedrock that all the other abilities should spring from.
The roll is just a gimmick. It’s a “sure whatever” mechanic that has no soul. If tomorrow it turned into a sprint, block, or a jump mechanic, it would mean the same thing to Bosmer lore. In other words it means nothing to Bosmer or what they are.
I already gotten what you meant because you stated that the first time, the roll and speed does not matter to you and some others, I got it, do you got it?
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Bosmer
THE WILD HUNT, is where ZOS is basing the new traits and the fact bosmers have an affinity for bow and arrow. The new roll dodge plays in very well with the bow passive that also grants speed boost and it turns out to be a 50% speed boost, which is why most youtubers that test the game say its kind of OP. Now I can attest most people play Bosmer with a bow in mind and I am sure ZOS knows this fact.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Bow
Now I will compare both the old and new. 3m of sneak means it will be a tad easier to sneak up and get closer to a target without them realizing, and honestly its not a huge boost in terms of math. Now we take a race passive that goes right along with the bow passive. Using a roll dodge which many players do to get out of harms way and give safe distance between a hunter and its prey. This gives 50% speed boost to escape, use a skill, sneak, hide, prepare defense or attack etc.
ZOS and most players want a race to feel unique when playing. Would you want it to where Bosmer have the sneak and khajiit didn't? Or each race has an equal amount, not very unique this way but you will have your little bit of close up sneak. I am sure players who play khajiit would have a blast roll dodging and playing around with the mousy Bosmer like a ball of yarn.
Now you could come up with something completely different, like a new mechanic. Here is one that comes from the top of my head. You can make a Bosmer more sneaky after a dodge roll, or make them enter stealth faster. WOW that was so hard to come up with, I am surprised I did, my head hurts.0 -
NobleMatias✭✭Both roll dodge and sneak are game mechanics meant to be utilized by a player. No gimmicks here.0
-
Moonsorrow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Moonsorrow wrote: »NobleMatias wrote: »The video I posted above has literally all the races within 2% of each other. If your going to choose a race because you want a laughable 2% more dps, then your pretty shallow in my opinion.
So everyone playing this game is a pve dps?
I wonder how many times had to remind about that already...
If not the changes are even less significant because something like DPS can't be transferred into a PvP environment. And if it's really about PvP the defensive passives might be more important than anything else. The Bosmer and Khajiit stealth nerf might be an issue in PvP but the changes to the "meta Magicka" or "meta Stamina" racials... not so much.
You know nothing sadly. All the % modifier changes even alone make the pvp extreme builds nerfed BIG time. Not bothering to even explain, done it already with several examples. Class reps already confirmed what i said was true. So you dont need to start over when you obviously have no idea, sorry.3 -
Moonsorrow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Moonsorrow wrote: »NobleMatias wrote: »The video I posted above has literally all the races within 2% of each other. If your going to choose a race because you want a laughable 2% more dps, then your pretty shallow in my opinion.
So everyone playing this game is a pve dps?
I wonder how many times had to remind about that already...
Considering things need to die, yeah every one is a dps in pve. Tank and healer roles matter in group content and you can be any race with them.
*sigh* i am talking about changes like these not increasing variety/efficiency on PVP builds as an example since % modifiers gone. And thats what you come up with?
"this is fine.." crowd at it again with their logic.
0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Moonsorrow wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Moonsorrow wrote: »NobleMatias wrote: »The video I posted above has literally all the races within 2% of each other. If your going to choose a race because you want a laughable 2% more dps, then your pretty shallow in my opinion.
So everyone playing this game is a pve dps?
I wonder how many times had to remind about that already...
Considering things need to die, yeah every one is a dps in pve. Tank and healer roles matter in group content and you can be any race with them.
*sigh* i am talking about changes like these not increasing variety/efficiency on PVP builds as an example since % modifiers gone. And thats what you come up with?
"this is fine.." crowd at it again with their logic.
i am fine with dps in pvp going down. players die too fast.0 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NobleMatias wrote: »I already gotten what you meant because you stated that the first time, the roll and speed does not matter to you and some others, I got it, do you got it?
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Bosmer
THE WILD HUNT, is where ZOS is basing the new traits and the fact bosmers have an affinity for bow and arrow. The new roll dodge plays in very well with the bow passive that also grants speed boost and it turns out to be a 50% speed boost, which is why most youtubers that test the game say its kind of OP. Now I can attest most people play Bosmer with a bow in mind and I am sure ZOS knows this fact.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Bow
Now I will compare both the old and new. 3m of sneak means it will be a tad easier to sneak up and get closer to a target without them realizing, and honestly its not a huge boost in terms of math. Now we take a race passive that goes right along with the bow passive. Using a roll dodge which many players do to get out of harms way and give safe distance between a hunter and its prey. This gives 50% speed boost to escape, use a skill, sneak, hide, prepare defense or attack etc.
ZOS and most players want a race to feel unique when playing. Would you want it to where Bosmer have the sneak and khajiit didn't? Or each race has an equal amount, not very unique this way but you will have your little bit of close up sneak. I am sure players who play khajiit would have a blast roll dodging and playing around with the mousy Bosmer like a ball of yarn.
Now you could come up with something completely different, like a new mechanic. Here is one that comes from the top of my head. You can make a Bosmer more sneaky after a dodge roll, or make them enter stealth faster. WOW that was so hard to come up with, I am surprised I did, my head hurts.
Oh! They are basing it off the wild hunt? That’s nice. I am just basing mine off basically every ES game they ever produced. But they chose wild hunt lore and not the rite of theft lore which seems arbitrary. Since the rite of theft is something nearly all bosmers participate in for their entire lives.
And roll/speed is good for hunting? It sounds to me they came up with the mechanic first and said “That’s good for... Hunting! Sure let’s go with that!”
If it was dunmer they could have named it after something to do with the Morag tong. Or with kahjits it could be “ferocious leap”. With Orcs they could have named it “rough and tumble” but it’s Bosmer’s so “wild hunt” because why not?
•••
Let’s see all the races need to be unique, right? And if I remember correctly (I am currently on a ship in the Caribbean) we have bow, two-handed, dual wield, dps staff, healing staff, and one-hand with shield. Six weapons and ten races. That leaves 4 races that should be bad at all weapons. We can’t have more then one race per weapon right? That would go against uniqueness! Choosing which races that should be bad at all things is tough, hmmmm....
Oh wait, am I still being unique enough? Maybe we should limit it to tank, melee dps, ranges dps, and heals! That leaves six races that should be bad at everything because “uniqueness”.
Or we can break it down to stamina and magika abilities. That leaves eight races that can’t be good using either trait. Hmmm.... (Am I doing this right?)
•••
You are sacrificing flexibility on the altar of uniqueness without giving a thought to gameplay.
Multiple races should be good at multiple things. Multiple races should be good tanks, multiple races should be good at healing, and yes multiple races should be good at sneaking. I can even make a good case that Dunmer should have a sneak bonus as well, but that’s a distraction.
Having multiple races good at multiple things is not contrary to uniqueness. The uniqueness comes in on HOW the races approach their roles not, not have their roles dictate their race. Kahjits and bosmers can both have stealth, it’s what they do with stealth that should give their race flavor.
I want to sneak, therefore kahjit.
I want to be a mage, therefore altmer.
Not good gameplay.
Maybe kahjit stealth make great ambushers. Maybe Bosmer stealth makes them shoot farther, an ”aimed shot” if you will. (That fits hunting more then a roll.)
•••
Lastly, “a tad easier”?? Right now (I may be wrong) the detection range of stealth is 5m. That makes a 3m of improved stealth 60% better then with out it. That’s more then a tad better. There is forum posts showing the before and after of the stealth changes. You should read it before using terms like “tad”.6 -
Cundu_Ertur✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NobleMatias wrote: »Cundu_Ertur wrote: »NobleMatias wrote: »Cundu_Ertur wrote: »NobleMatias wrote: »TheRealPotoroo wrote: »NobleMatias wrote: »The video I posted above has literally all the races within 2% of each other. If your going to choose a race because you want a laughable 2% more dps, then your pretty shallow in my opinion.
You didn't address rampant stupidity like Bosmers losing their stealth bonus. Yet again PVE gets screwed because of PVP.
Bosmer now have a mechanic that allows them to be the fastest resource harvesters in the game. Please for the love of god stop complaining about the Bosmer's stealth being taken away. they are given other special skills to make up, and for you to complain about 3m of detect just makes me laugh so damn much. The Bosmer race literally got a buff when comparing all the race changes, quit crying.
Please for the love of God stop trying to dismiss other people's opinions because they have the temerity to not agree with your perfect all-knowing wisdom. (note, the description of your wisdom is sarcastic icymi)
The fact is, that despite saying "so we kept parts of each the Wood Elf’s and the Khajiit’s version of these passives," the devs in actually completely removed stealth bonus from the Bosmer entirely. The statement of the intent and the result do not match. We are completely within our rights to point this out. We are also within our rights to point out the substantial lore that says that Wood Elves are adept at stealth. We are within our rights to point out how this lore, and our experience with other games, informed our choices regarding this race and how we choose to play it. You do NOT get to dictate to us how we choose to play, how we choose to feel, or how we choose to express our deep dissatisfaction with the change as it currently stands.
Yes, we got some significant benefit from this change, as do the Khajiit. That's not the issue. The issue is that we are losing something that is core to how many people see the Bosmer as a race. It is like telling Redguards that they are no longer masters of weapons but magic instead.
Khajiit on the other hand have always been the sneakiest In every Elder Scrolls entry, hence why they still have their sneaky style.
Gotta go for a while, but had to ask: wanna bet? C'mon, you know you wanna.
Yea sure, you wanna play that game.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Khajiit
Suthay-raht are the kitties we have seen In almost every Elder Scrolls game, and I assume the ones in ESO, with no other racial difference other than skin change in the character creator, until now. This means I win right?
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Ring_of_Khajiiti
A powerful ring just for them sneaky pests.
Besides that point I It would be pretty cool to bring in all the racial differences and play styles of all the different kitties. I mean their might someone out there wanting to play a common house cat right?
Sorry, but no. What race had the biggest boost in hiding in Morrowind and Oblivion? Bosmer. What race has as their most famous national epic the Meh Ayleidion (or The Thousand Uses of Hiding)? Bosmer. What race has the rite of theft, where villages and tribes would steal each other's most precious artifacts, without drawing either blood or attention? Bosmer.
Did you even play Morrowind or Oblivion? Khajiit didn't have hiding as their primary skill, it was a secondary skill with a +5; Bosmer got a +10. The only reason why Bosmer didn't have hiding as a primary skill in Skyrim was that each race got only one primary (which was bow for the Bosmer); and the Khajiits' previous primary, Acrobatics, no longer existed (well, in Oblivion they also had hand-to-hand as a primary, and it, too, was removed from Skyrim). Also, the Khajiit were digitigrade in Morrowind, so quite different in the character creator, which you would know if you'd played it. It was hard to miss, since Khajiit couldn't wear most shoes, iirc.
And for someone who is gaining lots of converts, you have an amazing low number of agrees on your posts. Almost as if no-one agreed with you.
Edited by Cundu_Ertur on January 26, 2019 5:31AMTaking stealth away from the Bosmer is like taking magic away from the Altmer, making Nords allergic to mead, or making Orcs pretty.9 -
Cundu_Ertur✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NobleMatias wrote: »Cundu_Ertur wrote: »NobleMatias wrote: »TheRealPotoroo wrote: »NobleMatias wrote: »The video I posted above has literally all the races within 2% of each other. If your going to choose a race because you want a laughable 2% more dps, then your pretty shallow in my opinion.
You didn't address rampant stupidity like Bosmers losing their stealth bonus. Yet again PVE gets screwed because of PVP.
Bosmer now have a mechanic that allows them to be the fastest resource harvesters in the game. Please for the love of god stop complaining about the Bosmer's stealth being taken away. they are given other special skills to make up, and for you to complain about 3m of detect just makes me laugh so damn much. The Bosmer race literally got a buff when comparing all the race changes, quit crying.
Please for the love of God stop trying to dismiss other people's opinions because they have the temerity to not agree with your perfect all-knowing wisdom. (note, the description of your wisdom is sarcastic icymi)
The fact is, that despite saying "so we kept parts of each the Wood Elf’s and the Khajiit’s version of these passives," the devs in actually completely removed stealth bonus from the Bosmer entirely. The statement of the intent and the result do not match. We are completely within our rights to point this out. We are also within our rights to point out the substantial lore that says that Wood Elves are adept at stealth. We are within our rights to point out how this lore, and our experience with other games, informed our choices regarding this race and how we choose to play it. You do NOT get to dictate to us how we choose to play, how we choose to feel, or how we choose to express our deep dissatisfaction with the change as it currently stands.
Yes, we got some significant benefit from this change, as do the Khajiit. That's not the issue. The issue is that we are losing something that is core to how many people see the Bosmer as a race. It is like telling Redguards that they are no longer masters of weapons but magic instead.
I will be an constructive as possible because it seems I am hurting some persons feelings.
In the case of a Bosmer and a Khajiit. What has replaced the stealth damage a and sneak potential? Bosmer now are able to roll dodge and gain a 20% boost to speed, I can imagine them playing with their victims regarding certain sets, and are able to spot enemies at 3m the cost of a 3m sneak. Khajiit on the other hand have always been the sneakiest In every Elder Scrolls entry, hence why they still have their sneaky style. Neither have the damage bonus as before, and both are based on lore. Bosmer being that they turn into ravenous hunting beasts if you mess with their forest, and khajit for being master thief's with a whole back story and Daedric Items to back it up.
I would trade 3m of stealth for a 20% speed boost any day. I know majority who love the changes are not on the forums voicing frustrations when simply should not be as big a deal, so peeps should be calm. Now it would be warranted if people of which I will not mention, can back the statements with proof, data, and statistics, this will make me and many others take what is said more seriously. I have shown these. The Bosmer race will still be viable in a sneaky role and honestly be able to roll out of danger and pop into sneak mode with a 20% speed boost. This enables a quick getaway.
I am trying to show everyone that the team at ZOS have really number crunched on the races while providing unique buffs, and they are indeed balanced. Every race is now viable. But of course tweaking would not hurt for the sake of diversity. I could name a ton of lore related reasons to tweak the races.
I only focused on the part where you claimed (falsely, as it turns out) Khajiit had always been the more stealthy race in prior iterations of Elder Scrolls games. I had other places to be and could not answer fully. Now I have time. As for what replaced the original stealth passive I already wrote about it at length in another post, I will quote it here:Cundu_Ertur wrote: »Stealthy: This was actually shared, both Khajiit and Bosmer had the same exact passive, though Khajiit had it as their second while Bosmer had it as their third. Both races had a bonus to being able to hide and had a bonus to damage out of stealth. In the new versions, both races lose the bonus to damage out of stealth and get something new in return: Bosmer get a roll-dodge speed buff, Khajiit get a new buff to all of their stats. Khajiit keep the 3m hiding bonus, and add 2m to it, and move the buff to their third passive. Bosmer lose the hiding bonus completely, and add a 3m detection bonus.
As I point out, the lost damage bonus was already compensated for with new mechanics, either the roll-dodge or across-the-board stat boost. So that's not the issue. The issue here is that Khajiit keep the 3m hiding bonus, and add more to it. It is completely reasonable to expect that the Bosmer would also get to keep the 3m hiding bonus, and add more to it, too. If this had been done at the start, then the devs' comment that they wanted to preserve part of the bonus for both races, but in distinct ways, would make sense. This thread would also be much shorter. As it stands right now, their statement is completely wrong, because Bosmers' stealth bonus is completely gone, not any part of it has been preserved in any way.Taking stealth away from the Bosmer is like taking magic away from the Altmer, making Nords allergic to mead, or making Orcs pretty.5 -
Bladewizard✭✭✭I am a solo pve player. By solo I mean solo. I do not even belong to a guild. The way I play has no negative impact on anyone else on this game, and if you take stealth away from the bosmer I will have to change a good half of my characters to khajit. I have silently endured all of the balance changes over the years without complaint, this one thing though ruins my game. After all the time and money I have spent on this game I do not want to have to find a new game without at least voicing my opinion on this. I have played every single elder scrolls game and I have always mained a sneaky little wood elf. Please do what you want with the rest just leave my little wood elves sneaky.7
-
TheTraveler✭✭✭NobleMatias wrote: »
Yea sure, you wanna play that game.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Khajiit
Suthay-raht are the kitties we have seen In almost every Elder Scrolls game, and I assume the ones in ESO, with no other racial difference other than skin change in the character creator, until now. This means I win right?
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Ring_of_Khajiiti
A powerful ring just for them sneaky pests.
Besides that point I It would be pretty cool to bring in all the racial differences and play styles of all the different kitties. I mean their might someone out there wanting to play a common house cat right?
Let's talk about actual TES game-play mechanic tradition in addition to "lore" . The lore you are quoting was only introduced in later TES games.
I clearly showed you in an earlier post, how Bosmer were the only "thief" race in the first Elder Scrolls game. In the second game, Argonians were presented as being sneaky, and only in the second game does Kahjiit come in as thieves, but not due to stealth - due to their climbing ability. https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Races_(Daggerfall)
Khajiit in Arena: https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Khajiit_(Arena) As you can see, no sneaking or thievery, but the Bosmer most definitely are thieves:
https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Bosmer_(Arena)Edited by TheTraveler on January 26, 2019 8:16AM6 -
TheTraveler✭✭✭NobleMatias wrote: »ZOS and most players want a race to feel unique when playing. Would you want it to where Bosmer have the sneak and khajiit didn't ?
Firstly, don't you get that thievery is a part of this game, why must it all be about PVP, and secondly, why can't both have sneak - perhaps in a slightly different form yes, but saying only one of them can have stealth abilities, to be "unique" is like saying only one race can have magic abilities or only one can have a health buff to be "unique".
There are many other things you can do, for example, something that they already had, like a boost to crit damage can be what makes Khajiit unique, and some kind of bow bonus or roll-dodge bonus can be what makes Bosmer "unique", if you really want to go that way.
There are many things that can be done without having to remove the Bosmer stealth completely. Bosmer have been THE thief race from the start of TES.
PS, read your own link : https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Bosmer , which says: Their (Bosmer's) agility makes them well-suited as scouts and thieves. Last time I looked, you need stealth for scouting and thieving.Edited by TheTraveler on January 26, 2019 8:40AM7 -
Moonsorrow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Moonsorrow wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Moonsorrow wrote: »NobleMatias wrote: »The video I posted above has literally all the races within 2% of each other. If your going to choose a race because you want a laughable 2% more dps, then your pretty shallow in my opinion.
So everyone playing this game is a pve dps?
I wonder how many times had to remind about that already...
Considering things need to die, yeah every one is a dps in pve. Tank and healer roles matter in group content and you can be any race with them.
*sigh* i am talking about changes like these not increasing variety/efficiency on PVP builds as an example since % modifiers gone. And thats what you come up with?
"this is fine.." crowd at it again with their logic.
i am fine with dps in pvp going down. players die too fast.
As said, "this is fine.." -people come with the weirdest things, no knowledge of the real pvp realities, sadly.
It is little things like this, that bit by bit makes the game have less options, racial passives being changed to have less viable options for interesting builds that makes the current situation happen.
Also, i know already these changes will go through, as do all the nerfs always go, with maybe little adjustments. But what i am sad about truly is, the "this is fine.." -people are in every thread saying all that they should just "adapt" to these, like we do not even have right to say our opinions about these changes.
Apparently everyone should agree with every change in the game, even it is bad for our playstyles. This is game industry these days it seems.
When these changes were announced, i said many of them will be nerfs to variety and options in builds that used the % modifiers to the extremes. Math guys were here saying everyone gets buffed. Then Gilliam told how the new flat passives scale and nerfs were confirmed. Math guys went quiet for a bit. Now their new lines are: "nerfs are fine.." and "just adapt..". Laughing at your excuses.
We can adapt, i can adapt. But i damn well have right to my opinion on bad changes. Nothing you can do about it and there will be time when i get to again say the "i told you so." like after nerfs were confirmed, when the dumbed down game goes even more on that direction and the decline starts after the influx of people from the movie Idiocracy that are at first empowered by these changes that makes all mediocre with less choices.
The changes will not end to these you know. Next will happen on things you like on your playstyle. I shall be there then to humbly say the "i told you so.." then. Or maybe the "this is fine.." while watching your gaming enjoyment world burn.
And yes, there are a few decent changes in these, but they do not make up for all the negatives. At those situations it is better to have no change at all, until model is worked upon enough to keep the fun things that have already, and increase the options on new fun things. I do not understand how hard these opinions must be for some to understand what we are saying here? If something is not broken, there is no need to fix it, and if do for just to change, then do it properly.
Destroying many fun things as collateral damage while making all racials be based on pve dps is just weird and not needed at all, except if wants to sell race change tokens.
2 -
Alucardmike✭✭✭I really hope, that my Bosmer doesn't get these changes.
I am a roleplayer with a thief Bosmer, which is now nearly unseen. With the changes, I amfaster, if I roll. Wow. Doesn't help a thief.
I can see other better, when they sneak?
Only for PVP interesting. Wow.
So all my time in this game seemed to be wasted...The bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame.11 -
hakan✭✭✭✭✭Now looking at lore, dunmers never had flame damage just destruction bonus and lots of races had that. Weird enough they had spark ability at the start of the game in Skyrim.
And they also have bonuses with sneak and speed but they got no bonuses for those either. attack speed would be interesting.1 -
TheTraveler✭✭✭The point is that people have built their characters around racial characteristics in THIS game. If they wanted to "balance" the races, why didn't they do so at the start before people started investing a lot into their toons. I am sick and tired of having to buy new gear and making race changes because the devs can't get it right, and keep on perpetually buffing and nerfing - don't you see that as soon as you buff and nerf it causes and outcry from the nerfed group, who ends up getting a buff, which causes another outcry, which then ends up in more buffs and nerfs... and it all costs the players wasted time and gold either in the game or in real life.3
-
Lord_Eomer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »...
Khajiit have the only passive bossting enchant damage and everything else that is not a proc set (pets too for example): Critical Chance. They will produce incredible dps and even have an edge when you consider that other races can not boost their enchants, especially since enchants are such a big chunk of damage nowadays...
They got additional resources and are very much a top contender for damage dealers.
Enchant damage, you say? ^^
He said because Enhancements like Fire, Lighting, Poison damage etc. can crit.Edited by Lord_Eomer on January 26, 2019 9:55AM0 -
Adernath✭✭✭✭✭I haven't read through all the 50 pages, just my few cents to:Spell Recharge: Restore 575 Magicka or Stamina, based on whichever is higher, after activating a Class Ability. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds.
The problem I have with this is that it does not help my sorc in any way if I run her as healer (and I enjoy much playing that role). The flat 7% ability reduction for bretons in comparison is an insane buff!
EDIT: Unless with 'abilities' in that breton description it is meant 'class abilities'. Than I am fine with it.
Edited by Adernath on January 26, 2019 11:42AM0 -
Uryel✭✭✭✭✭
✭NobleMatias wrote: »3m of sneak means it will be a tad easier to sneak up and get closer to a target without them realizing, and honestly its not a huge boost in terms of math.
Obviously, you've never played a stealthy character in ESO.
Not only is it a HUGE bonus, but the point isn't only to get up close and personnal with a supposed target. The point is, as the word "stealth" implies, to avoid being seen. Like, for instance, sneaking into a restricted area, avoiding all combat in a delve, whatever. If all people playing bosmers wnated to do was stealthily koll a target, stealth radius would be a non factor, we have bows.
That 3 m bonus matters alot in every other situations.6 -
Uryel✭✭✭✭✭
✭NobleMatias wrote: »Both roll dodge and sneak are game mechanics meant to be utilized by a player. No gimmicks here.
Well... "Gimmick" litteraly means gadget, something that has no real value, that may be useful in some peculiar situations, but doesn't have much use outside of them.
Stealth can be used in almost every aspect of the game. Marginally, but, it can.
Dodge roll isn't all that great if you're already using a bow, but hey, why not.
Now please explain to me how stealth detection is not a gimmick, considering the definition I gave just above. Something that has no use whatsoever in PvE and only a very limited use in PvP ?
Hence, devs should drop that stealth detection gimmick and keep stealth.4 -
CurvedSwords123✭✭✭Lorewise, Redguards are the best warriors and the most well employed mercenaries. NOT including fighters guild abilities with the weapon abilities is silly, as well as very pigeon holing build wise. We don't have any kind of defensive bonus (which we prob should). The fighters guild inclusion change makes sense. Either that or go all in with the WEP skill thing and include some kind of WEP dmg (don't suggest this option), as I'm guessing we will be able to light attack more than others. As it stands now everyone is going to have more options than Redguards & Imperials (the block thing makes sense but seems boring).
My other beef is with Dark elves and Wood Elves. Yes Dark Elves have all the damage bonuses in the world, lorewise, a DE having more dmg potential than a Redguard or Orc is dumb. Also they won't be able to sustain that most likely. Yes they are equalized between magic and stam, but it's like u are setting them up for something that doesn't exist; that being hyprid DPS. Battlemages exist in the lore, but NOT in your game ZoS. Give them another theory crafting pass I say, they are fiery, why take fire away from them???
Lastly the Wood elf speed thing is going to be broken. This has been covered by everyone and their mother so I won't bother.Edited by CurvedSwords123 on January 26, 2019 3:57PM1 -
CurvedSwords123✭✭✭I think the racial changes are a good thing. Next on the chopping block should be a CP rework.
Edited by CurvedSwords123 on January 26, 2019 3:55PM0