Upcoming Racial Balance Changes for Update 21

NobleMatias

I am going to go through most of your points and debunk what you have stated for the fact that honestly you are complaining for no other reason that you don't like how your Bosmer is turning out, and that you spent a lot of crowns, and that you think its simplifying the game even more, and that pvp is getting in your pve, and that your older so you know whats best, and that your not used to change.

NobleMatias wrote: »

I have to say the changes are very balanced, and pretty much most people complaining about them are bias because their race choice used to be meta

1.

Uryel wrote: »

They are balanced indeed, I'll give you that. It doesn't mean they are necessary, welcome, or even justified by any need.

Tell me, what really is the difference between the race changes..... not much other than a change from percentage to flat stats which equals balanced, and yes they are more unique with abilities to take less damage while using cast time skills, or the fact that you can gain ultimate while being damaged. How are these changes not justified from just one fact, that a ton of people choose a race solely because that one race has the highest stats. I am fairly certain that most people welcome this much needed change, but are not on the forums complaining about how their sweet Bosmer got messed up.

2.

Uryel wrote: »

Personnaly, I'm crossed because those changes go along the same line as previously, but even further, and that line is "let's say we're giving more freedom of choice and more open possibilities when we're actually making sure pople will fit nicely in the tiny boxes we have designed.

Think for a moment. How is ZOS designing tiny little boxes of play style while making races more diverse, have you even looked at the changes. The only way they are similar is that they provide stats boost, but not as much as before as with a percentage boost, which in turn makes people only focus on boosting that stat to maximize damage. With the changes you can choose a race without worrying if that race will be powerful and able to compete later on because you know it will, just like everyone else's race, and that gives freedom to pick what you want to play.

3.

Uryel wrote: »

I'm an old timer.

This is irrelevant, I and most people have been playing games most of our lives and I have been playing since I was 5 years old. I am 27 now and I have played most of the elder scrolls games starting with arena and Morrowind being my favorite. what does anyone's age have to do with making a game more balanced for everyone and at the same time giving people more freedom to choose what they want to play. You seem to be stuck in the past logic In that I get more stats so it must make me more unique.

4.

Uryel wrote: »

Over the years I've noticed an oversimplification of general mechanics in games (a direct consequence of the commercial success of World of Warcraft, that everyone wants to replicate, which means appealing to larger crowds rather than giving some complexity to the enthusiast)

I agree there certainly has been a trend of lets make everything more generic and dumb so everyone can play easily, but hopefully the gaming industry changes that, which some developers are indeed making a change. This race patch is not a case of simplifying because the stats are just flat numbers, this diverts the choice of percentage meta stacking and the choosing of a race to do that with. Percentage stacking=cutting off choices to be competitive

5.

Uryel wrote: »

I'm pretty sure the sheer amount of crowns I've spent over the years is proof enough of that... Along with the fact that I gifted it to my wife and we're now playing together most evening, and SHE is also spending some crowns. Good thing we don't have kids, eh ?

You have to be joking right. So because you have spent a crap ton of crowns means you have a say. Guess what I have spent a crap ton of crowns as well, and I have bought this game and many of its dlc on PS4 and PC does that mean I am more relevant..... No it does not, logic makes you more relevant.

6.

Uryel wrote: »

So, ok, we don't have support classes or proper crowd control. We merely have the holy trinity of heal, tank and damage dealer. There was a time in MMOs where support and control would be proper classes

Guess what a tank and a healer can support the team with secondary damage or debuff the enemy, and a dps can support the team with shields. I have no idea what you are talking about. Crowd control has always been easy in this game because almost every class has a crowd control ability and has skills to slow enemies down. Who has learned this game and had a problem with crowd control. We all can break free, and we all can crowd control.

7.

Uryel wrote: »

But recently, the trend was to "bring something unique to the party". Apparently, it's too complicated to have multi-use skills.

Some skills do need more love but they have plenty which are multi use skills. For example the most basic skill In the game and the first one you learn In the two handed skill line, uppercut. Uppercut can be morphed to knock back, stun, and damage an enemy all at the same time, and there are plenty of examples of this.

8.

Uryel wrote: »

So, my point is, all this talk about changes to "bring more freedom of choice" and "bring unique things to the party" is simply preposterous. The whole point is to please single-minded minmaxers, at the expense of people who actually try "non meta" stuff. The change with Khajiits and Bosmers is spectacular in that respect : one becomes even better at hiding, the other entirely loses this ability but becomes super good at spotting hidden characters. I smell PvP interference in my PvE. And that is happening even though Bosmers have been spectacularly good at sneaking since at the very least 2002 and the original "Morrowind". Probably even before that, but I never played Arena or Daggerfall so I wouldn't know.

I have already explained most of this, and the fact that these race changes have minmaxers in mind is quite laughable. Its the exact opposite because minmaxers would use percentage to stack with other percentage, now its in fact harder to do that. How are khajiits and Bosmer a prime example? Literally all that has changed for Bosmer is they are able to spot sneaking people in PVP and can run faster after a dodge roll, and for khajiit, they can be more viable in a magic user role. The reason why Bosmer can spot other people easier is because their lore has to do a lot with them being good hunters and turning into beasts that go on a ravenous hunt. As for khajiit, their change comes from the fact they have always been the true master thief and the stats play on the fact they have two moons which govern how they are born.

9.

Uryel wrote: »

But hey, this change is specialised, perfectly fits in tiny boxes, and infuriating AF. As mentionned by someone above, these changes do have an impact on the reason a race was chosen in the first place. They might be inconspicuous for the newcomers, but not for people who have been around for a while.

Give me a break. Please state facts to back up your claims. I have been playing ESO since the beta.

10.

Uryel wrote: »

Also, there is one major flaw in the reasoning. Well, several, but at least this one. Every race needs to be overly specialised in something, and balanced. I'm fine with balancing, but why specialise ? This reasoning relies on the fact that everyone starts the game with complete knowledge of the races' bonuses and chose them exactly for that, and that only.

Two races now can be versatile, that being khajiit and Dunmer, and all of the races fit the lore in which they were derived , hence why they have affinity for said paths. Orcs, melee warrior, Altmer magic user. Also flat stats and uniqie abilities make a race more versatile. Please look at the changes.

11.

Uryel wrote: »

If racial passives are this much of a matter, shouldn't the ingame information be at least available from start

The racial passives are shown in the game from the start, they just don't show statistics, and you know why? Because people would choose their race even more based on stats.

12.

Uryel wrote: »

But of course, if it's a matter of chosing between lore and stats, then why not go any further ? Obviously, Bosmers are no longer supposed to be stealthy, even though it's been one of their most defining traits in the lore along their archery prowesses in the whole history of the elder scrolls... So why not go even further and forgo the lore entirely?

You clearly have not read the PTS race changes and Gil's comments. Where is lore not shown? You can use the roll dodge passive with the passive from the bow tree, giving the player like 50% short duration speed boost. They can spot enemies easier because they are hunters.

13.

Uryel wrote: »

I'll go even further along the path of freedom of choice : let's remove "magicka" and "stamina", and have only one pool called, say, "energy". That would certainly be "unique"

Yes indeed this is very dumb, and the tri stat way is very oversimplified. Its the reason you see most people dumping all of their stat points into one stat pool, stamina, magicka etc. How this has anything to do with the race change, I don't know.....

14.

Uryel wrote: »

Also, will the infinite loading screens ever get fixed ?

You can fix the loading screen right now. All you have to do is delete your cached shader file in the ESO documents folder. then when you start the game it will load new cached shaders. Also an SSD will help out.

15.

Uryel wrote: »

My point with this long-winded, angry post, is simply that the reasons announced to make these changes are so obviously lies that I'm actually angry for real. Those changes, along with the ones that occured in the previous overhauls, are not giving people more choices, they are removing choices.

You have stated absolutely no facts to back these statements up. ZOS and Gil have stated exactly why they are making changes to this imbalanced game...

16.

Uryel wrote: »

I sure will feel like my Bosmer is broken when her stealth will be taken away." "Also, saying they try to "respect the lore" while removing stealth from the Bosmers is especially infuriating. Blantant lies or complete disregard of the lore

Again, only complaining because you play said race. You have lost me and I have lost your train of thought. Both khajiit and Bosmer are different and more unique now, that one is able to better spot and one is able to better sneak, and both traits being based on lore.

ChefZero

Uryel wrote: »

<sarcasm>True that, just look at other games who have them, such as Guild wars 2, for instance, they are such a huge problem... </sarcasm>

In GW2 they are no problem because they are weak and don't appear in most competive builds. People have been asking for a buff for years but ArenaNet is doing it right and leaving the racials weak.

A bad example is WoW, where since Vanilla the race actives are having problems with balancing. Plus races are faction locked.

Nikoltait

Khajiit

Nimble: 20% Health Recovery and 10% Stamina Recovery → Robustness: Increases your Health Recovery by 100 and your Stamina and Magicka recovery by 75.

So now i have ~76 Health Recovery and ~282 Stamina Recovery. After nerf i will have 100 Health Recovery and 75 Stamina recovery. 282/75=376% nerf for me. Sad.

MotokoHutt

First of all before anyone says anything, I am aware I am playing a mage on a "stam race" however this is personal preference as I find personally having extra hp and stamina way more beneficial to myself as a healer then the ultimatly negligible amount of healing increase I would get from more max magicka etc. Having the ability to break free more, roll more to dodge mechanics and block more leads me to better survival rates in tough scenarios and a dead healer fails in all possible cases.

Here is a comparison of the stats between my same build on an Imperial and an Orc. From my stand point stamina is the games representation of a characters robust endurance and overall physical strength, magicka being the same for magic and health being a representation of a races natural resilience, physical constatution and stability. Damage stats would be the equivelant to how well crafted your weapons and/or spells are and penetration is how effective your weapon can deal with more reslient armor which is why for instance blunt weapons have better penetration value naturally.

So lets see, your telling me that a Imperial which are far smaller, less phyically robust, not as braud and sturdy are actually some how more resilient stronger then Orc's? A race famed for there resilience and brutal strength in battle. A race that can even physically be more intimidating then Nords. A race that held off 2 entire armies in a 30 year war that would go down as the longest siege in all of elder scrolls history with a fraction of the total soldiers? That even killed the famed Gaiden Shinji in battle? REALLY? And then what do we gain for are weakness in ESO, a sprint speed increase and sprint cost reduction? where on earth is that in the lore ZOS? tell me, cus I thought Khajiit where suppose to be the quickest and most agile race on Tamriel? common ZOS, suspension of disbeleif much.

I mean personally if you ask me Orc's new passives don't refflect the lore at all and paint Orc's as some weak, easilly killed non armour wearing bulldog which doesnt fit Orc's in almost any fantasy lore yet alone elder scrolls lore. In every fantasy lore Orc's are famed for being strong, resilient and hard to take down, making seeming impossible waits to lift seem like childs play. Now if you try to argue well Orc's get a passive to regen stamina and health, I have tested it and frankly its just a nerfed to all hell Redguard adrenaline rush that makes little to no diference in most scenario's. Furthermore I have outlined in my picture that if you NEED sustain its not hard to gain more then adequate recoverys even on a race that doesnt have bonuses to sustain. Not to mention that a good team dynamic should make stamina and or magicka management a non issue in the first place.

I think allot of these passives are too linear, dont reflect the lore and dont create a very dynamic and enguaging racial sytem and I am not just talking about the Orc racials here. I complain allot about Orc's because I am salty and rightfully so, your killing off a race that was already sub par compare to redguards and completely disregarding your own mantra of freedom and play how you want just to breed generic gameplay stereotypes and pigeon hole players into specific races if they wish to compete on a higher level for certain roles. If this update go's live how it is I will be seveerly disapointed, as an Orc fan adopting there mentality of fighting against adversity this ultimatly won't stop me from playing my beloved Orsimer race and of course it would never stop me playing ESO as a game, however as a consumer you can be sure I will do the one thing I can do in silent protest and thats to stop spending anymore on this game. Make what you will of my post and I am sure there will be those in the ESO community that will flame me, but I have said my piece with this post and I thank all those who agree with me and support a more interesting and lore friendly elder scrolls online

Dr_Ganknstein

Why argonians getting nerfed across the board?

hakan

Uryel wrote: »

hakan wrote: »

What do you mean? i want to change my dunmers face so i was counting on this race change, so i need to design her from the start? Like i cant do small changes cuz it will show a different template?

An appearance change will show your character.

A race change will keep most settings, but not all of them. The haircut you use might be #2 on Bretons and #7 on Imperials, for instance, so the same setting will have different results. You might need to tweak adornments, haircut, skin tone and whatnot, but overall you'll have roughly the same thing. There will be difference, though, since for instance a redguard nose is generally shorter and wider than an Imperial's nose.

Changes will be more significant between men / mer races, and if you switch to / from a beast race from / to a humanoid race, changes will obviously be drastic.

But i wont change my race. just her face a bit. when i click change race, is it first gonna show another random race?

Draxinusom

Icky wrote: »

Why argonians getting nerfed across the board?

Because they vastly overbudget resourceful, equalling it with three times flat permanent stat recovery and therefore have to break three of their own stated goals of the initial post to achieve mathematical and lore breaking balance.

They might see their error or they might not. I've played an Argonian since start of this game and initially their racials were way way worse than they are going to become now. Still I'll just go with the path of least resistance and change my role from tank to dd. Some imperial or nord sod may take it upon him or herself pulling randoms through LFG. How anyone at ZOS can seriously nerf the least played role in PVE for the PVP crowd that is never ever going to be happy is way beyond my understanding.

Dr_Ganknstein

Draxinusom wrote: »

Icky wrote: »

Why argonians getting nerfed across the board?

Because they vastly overbudget resourceful, equalling it with three times flat permanent stat recovery and therefore have to break three of their own stated goals of the initial post to achieve mathematical and lore breaking balance.

They might see their error or they might not. I've played an Argonian since start of this game and initially their racials were way way worse than they are going to become now. Still I'll just go with the path of least resistance and change my role from tank to dd. Some imperial or nord sod may take it upon him or herself pulling randoms through LFG. How anyone at ZOS can seriously nerf the least played role in PVE for the PVP crowd that is never ever going to be happy is way beyond my understanding.

Ive played argonians since beta and yes they did have worse passives but why change the %of healing done to 4 and not 5% since the healing received got removed. Its a double nerf there. Mathematically they will be the worst race again. The new potion passive is ok but damn. Straight nerfs. Good healer? Why because 4% healing done? How is that better then 2000 magica and 250 spell damage that other races get? Should rename the race it Mediocre-gonians.

Uryel

NobleMatias wrote: »

you are complaining for no other reason that you don't like how your Bosmer is turning out, and that you spent a lot of crowns, and that you think its simplifying the game even more, and that pvp is getting in your pve, and that your older so you know whats best, and that your not used to change.

That is NOT what I am saying. What I am saying is that I have seen a s**t-ton of MMOS in almost 20 years I've been playing them, and I am very well used to change, thank you very much, but it doesn't mean change for the sake of change is necessarily a good idea, nor is it always beneficial. I'm not saying this because I think I know better, but because it gives context to my explanation. Been there, done that, didn't like it, if you will.

I'll admit that I personnaly don't like the changes that are coming, at least the ones for the bosmers, and if you browse the forum a bit, you'll also notice that I'm not alone in requesting that stealth isn't removed from bosmers. That is far from unreasonable, as it is one of the reasons some people chose bosmers in the first place, and also one of their core elements lore-wise.

And well, yeah, there is no denying that these changes are oversimplifaction of the gameplay, for people to chose even easier. I'm not fond of "let's make everything simple enough so that no thinking has to be involved". Sorry, just not my cup of tea.

NobleMatias wrote: »

Tell me, what really is the difference between the race changes..... not much other than a change from percentage to flat stats which equals balanced

I wasn't even talking about that, but hey, I'll humor you. It doesn't equal balanced. And well, you did mention it, but changing from percentage to flat means a major difference. Percentage is actually ALOT more efficient when you're specialised in the stat it increases. I'm pretty sure that if you were to translate the current racial stat boosts in raw numbers for a specialised toon that benefits the most from it, you'd see a nerf. So maybe we just don't use the word "balanced" the same way.

In a way, you're right, it's more balanced in the sense it means minmaxing will be less affected by it. Allright. Sure, why not. But it's most efficient if you are not specialised. It's better if you want to have +2000 stam on a magicka character, whatever you might use it for. Yay for hybrids, I guess ? Except hybrids don't work. No matter how many sets we have that serve to boost them, they don't work. The sheer fact that max damage is tied to max ressources means you're gimping yourself if you go hybrid. Pushing yet another change after introducing yet several other sets made for hybrids won't make them viable so long as skill efficency is tied to the ressoruce pools. This game was built around the need to hyperspecialise, and percentage give you more benefits from specialisation than flat values ever will.

But then, that's NOT what I was discussing at all. Absolutely not at all ever. But now that you mention it, I'm not fond of the flat value resists for the Nords, either. I'd much rather have a percentage of damage reduction that can pretty much not be obtained anywhere else than resists that can very easily be stacked with gear and whatnot. My nord stamina sorcerer tank probably exceeds the resist cap, anyway. Whatever, I'll make do, it won't break it, unlike... You guessed it... removing stealth from the bosmers.

NobleMatias wrote: »

and yes they are more unique with abilities to take less damage while using cast time skills, or the fact that you can gain ultimate while being damaged.

Never mentioned that, and never will. I simply don't care. Those changes are either good, or fair, or balanced enough. They don't break anything, they don't suddenly take away something that has been there to define a race since 2002 at least.

NobleMatias wrote: »

How are these changes not justified from just one fact, that a ton of people choose a race solely because that one race has the highest stats. I am fairly certain that most people welcome this much needed change, but are not on the forums complaining about how their sweet Bosmer got messed up.

And I am fairly certain that a lot of people are not even aware of that change because they never read game news, never use the forums, and will simply be taken by surprise when the change arrives. Whether they will like it or not is purely speculation.

As for the "people chose their race for the stats", yeah, sure, some do. Others chose them for whatever gimmick they get that will fit their playstyle. Like, for instance, the ability to sneak smoothly.

Here's an experience to attempt : go to any zone that isn't Craglorn, for obvious reasons, and ask in zone chat how people feel about bosmers losing their stealth in the next update and gaining a completely useless-in-PvE sneak detection bonus instead. You'll probably realise many people don't even know about that, and won't like it that much. Just a hunch, but maybe you should give it a try. I think I will, at least. Who knows, maybe I'm the one who will be surprised.

NobleMatias wrote: »

This is irrelevant

It is not. I was an experienced MMO player when World of Warcraft came out and changed the genre forever. I've seen the genre go from a niche market to a mainstream genre, to a subscription-only model to all sorts of relatively free to play models, and from an expert market to a genre suitable for kids. Call it irrelevant if you will, I call it "watching the world crumble" Joke aside, I'm just saying that, being old enough, I remember a time when games were alot more complex, which wasn't always a good thing because sometimes it felt you had a second job. A time when balance was not achieved and never achieavable anyway, because balance came from how people would build and use their class, not from game mechanics themselves. A time when it was perfectly normal, ok, and irreversible because respec didn't exist, to completely mess up a character sometimes. And, yeah, I'll admit it, that sucked, sometimes.

So, yeah, basically what I'm saying is this game is so incredibly simplified, stat-wise, that any old-timer could make a working build while half asleep and with their hands tied in their backs. Younglings probably need all the help they can get, though :P

That was a joke, by the way. Truthfully, I'm just saying that I don't care about stats all that much, this game is way to simple in that respect to worry for that anyway compared to older, more niche games.

I do care about mechanics that define a race, like bosmer stealth, being entirely removed for so-called balance, while the new mechanic that comes in its place brings nothing to the table, at least not for PVE. I do care that some sort of gameplay, namely the super-stealthy sneak thief that goes in unseen, gets the objective, gets out without triggering an alarm, is made all but impossible, at the very best incredibly demanding in terms of gear, need to be a vampire and whatnot, in a place where it used to be simple. And it should be simple for the bosmers, they ARE a very stealthy race in the lore and always have been.

NobleMatias wrote: »

I agree there certainly has been a trend of lets make everything more generic and dumb so everyone can play easily, but hopefully the gaming industry changes that, which some developers are indeed making a change.

Looks like we CAN agree on something, then I wouldn't get my hopes too high, though. There are indeed devs that do great in that respect, but they are mostly independant. Large cash houses need to appeal to as many people as they can, and for that, they will keep simplifying. Most likely, anyway.

NobleMatias wrote: »

You have to be joking right. So because you have spent a crap ton of crowns means you have a say.

Nope, you missunderstood. Or maybe I explained poorly. English isn't my main language, so it's possible that I didn't make myself clear. I'll try again.

I am just saying that I wouldn't spend a dime on a game I don't love, and its pains me even more to see a game I love being this disrespectful to players. Again, in case it wasn't clear enough, and it probably wasn't since you keep mentionning it, I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT STAT CHANGES. I am ONLY talking about the entire removal of bosmer stealth, for no reason, that breaks lore, gimps bosmer thief gameplay, to be replaced by a gizmo that will only be marginally useful in PvP and will do absolutely nothing in PvE. That' all.

Every other mention, about stats, like my suggestion to go full-crazy and chose freely and whatnot, was merely provocation to prove that, if there was really a will for more freedom of choice, we could be strolling along a much different path.

NobleMatias wrote: »

Guess what a tank and a healer can support the team with secondary damage or debuff the enemy, and a dps can support the team with shields. I have no idea what you are talking about.

See, that's why my age isn't irrelevant after all :P You have no idea what I'm talking about because you have probably never played a game in which control or support where actual roles. Yes, a tank or a healer can "support" the party, but where is the "support" role in the group interface ? Nowhere, oversimplification again. back in the days, there used ti be entire classes dedicated to buffing allies, debuffing enemies, and generally speaking making the game easier for the allies. "Control" could be considered a sub-genre of support, but in some cases it was its own genre too.

And please, you can't be serious with those so-called "crowd control" skills. Stunning someone for 2 seconds and then having them immune to all sort of crowd control from anyone for 10 seconds or so is NOT crowd control. Crowd control is area of effect stun that can be maintained as long as you have the ressource for it, it's blocking enemy action until they are dead.... It's what we old timer used to do in older games, when "control" was a role by itslef. Just because you can knock back one enemy by 3 meters every 10 seconds doesn't mean you can crowd control. That's barely worth mentionning as an interrupt. Oversimplification, again, and again it's one needed to cater to larger crowds. You can't get kids to pay for game time with their pocket money like Blizzard did years ago if they are going to rage because someone clever enough to figure a full-block build won't let them have their bloodshed.

I understand it from a merketing and larger-audience perspective, but that doesn't mean I can't miss the old days from time to time. That would be a pain in the bottom in PvP, I guess, but playing that in PvE was a lot of fun. But I difress, this isn't the goal of this discussion, right ? Also, it's not so bad. At least, the way it is now, people should be able to figure what they are supposed to do. It's less technical, but easier for the average player. Nothing worse than a controler who didn't know how to actually control, or a support who thought they were a damage dealer...

NobleMatias wrote: »

Literally all that has changed for Bosmer is they are able to spot sneaking people in PVP and can run faster after a dodge roll, and for khajiit, they can be more viable in a magic user role. The reason why Bosmer can spot other people easier is because their lore has to do a lot with them being good hunters and turning into beasts that go on a ravenous hunt.

Then it is my turn to question whether or not you read the change notes. The only thing that has changed for bosmers is that they can spot people easier ? Nope it's not. Their stealth is taken away too. I don't complain about what is being added, I don't even care enough for that PvP thingamagie to care about that addition. I do complain about what is being REMOVED. Read the notes.

Well, obviously you read them, since you quote almost word by word the "reason" the change is being made. They are good hunters. Great. Well, you played Morrowind, right ? Back then, bosmers where already sneaky. Oblivion ? Sneaky. Skyrim ? Sneaky. Elder Scrolls Online, up to early 2019 ? Sneaky.

Lore-wise, the Jaqspurs are elite scout troops and hunters ("words and philosophy" book in the Elder Scrolls games), and a scout is... Sneaky, yes. They are known as thieves ("Valenwood : a study"), to the point even a bosmer shopkeeper will be wary of another bosmer entering their shop. And thieves are sneaky. They are known to be very adept at hiding, at the veruy least in woodlands ("Pocket Guide to the Empire, 1st Edition/Aldmeri Dominion" and "Pocket Guide to the Empire, 1st Edition/The Wild Region"). They are famous for their guerrila tactics, which require stealth. Their most famous poem is titled ""The One Thousand Benefits of Hiding". The do worship Baan Dar, the trickster spirit the borrowed from the khajiits. Their most well-known rite is "the rite of theft". Sneaky again. Seriously, if one was to boild down bosmers to 3 points, it would be that they are amazing archers, they are amazing at stealth, and they don't eat or even damage any plant. Stealth is integral to bosmers.

So please, don't bring the lore as an excuse to remove one of the two most defining traits of the bosmers. There is no excuse lore-wise or gameplay-wise to remove their stealth, period.

Everything else you say relates, again, to the stat changes that I did not comment and didn't care about, so I see no reason to further detail my point. Especially after you tried to justify stealth removal by lore, which is absurd.

I guess we'll have to agree on disagreeing, then. And I am sorry if my words sound a bit harsh, I am indeed crossd, but at the game devs, not at you. I do disagree with you, but I nonetheless wish you to have fun with the changes you obviously welcome much more than I do

Just one last thing, though...

NobleMatias wrote: »

You can fix the loading screen right now. All you have to do is delete your cached shader file in the ESO documents folder. then when you start the game it will load new cached shaders. Also an SSD will help out.

The game runs on an SSD, and so does the OS. AMD Ryzen 5 2600X, 16 GB of RAM, GeForce GTX1060, games runs smooth as can be, save for the loading screens. I'll try the cache deletion, though. Thanks for the advice.

Uryel

ChefZero wrote: »

Uryel wrote: »

<sarcasm>True that, just look at other games who have them, such as Guild wars 2, for instance, they are such a huge problem... </sarcasm>

In GW2 they are no problem because they are weak and don't appear in most competive builds. People have been asking for a buff for years but ArenaNet is doing it right and leaving the racials weak.

A bad example is WoW, where since Vanilla the race actives are having problems with balancing. Plus races are faction locked.

True enough. Please note that I was just being sarcastic and don't wish for racial actives. We don't need them.

Uryel

hakan wrote: »

But i wont change my race. just her face a bit. when i click change race, is it first gonna show another random race?

No, don't worry. Race-change starts with showing you your current character. IF you want to change the race, then well, obviously some things will be changed. If you're using the race change token as an appearance change token, you'll be fine

grizzly375

So, looking at how this is playing out, I have 11 toons, 9 of whom are above CP (nearing cap). Of the 11, six are going to have to race change, based on MAJOR changes to racial traits, in order to remain competitive (and yes, they're all above CP). I'm going to get ONE race change for free, so I'll have to pay a huge amount of real money to change the other five.

Alternatively, I could delete those others that I've ground through for months, and re-roll in races that will work for their class and role.

Or, I could just say to heck with it, cancel my subscription, and find something else to do with my free time.

What happens between now and release of this Update is going to definitely drive the above decision. And, I'll give ZOS a hint, I'm not going to spend a whole lot more money to re-roll so I can keep playing a game I have to pay to play.

xaraan

Icky wrote: »

Why argonians getting nerfed across the board?

For two reasons:

1. People complain about them being too strong on potion passive. Which is arguable, but most of us expected to see it.

and 2. Lack of thought to take that nerf to every single passive and not offer anything to boost them up a touch in the damage dealing department.

Deathlord92

xaraan wrote: »

Icky wrote: »

Why argonians getting nerfed across the board?

For two reasons:

1. People complain about them being too strong on potion passive. Which is arguable, but most of us expected to see it.

and 2. Lack of thought to take that nerf to every single passive and not offer anything to boost them up a touch in the damage dealing department.

This is only week 1 of the pts things could change

TheTraveler

ChefZero wrote: »

TheTraveler wrote: »

...but why? What happened to player tweaking and letting the players themselves have some responsibility in how they build their character? What is the rationale behind comparing racial bonuses to set bonuses? Most of the sets are not equal and balanced, some are meta and some are very niche, but since there is a large variety to choose from, that's ok. What is the goal and the philosophy behind it, and why can't races cater to different player's playstyles? Have you guys even considered the idea of letting the player choose some of the passives such as was possible in earlier Elder Scroll games?

They already explained it twice or more. It's about having a way to derive a factor. Besides, they only talked about the small bonuses. The inbalance starts with the 5 pcs bonuses.

We already have a tool like that called mundus stones. Choosing racial passives would only produce more balancing problems. Something like that would give powerful build's more steroids.

Praise the Lord that we never got racial actives...

I agree about the racial actives.

...but let's look at the so-called rationale behind trading the %stats for flat amounts. There's been some kind of propaganda campaign going against min/maxing. The marketing spokespeople talk in flowery language about "freedom", but they don't tell us straight out why min/maxing is wrong. It's a natural thing to do, and why shouldn't it be done? I'll tell you why I think ZOS doesn't like it. They've been working hard at pulling in new players, and they want to hand the new players power on a plate in order to retain as many of them as possible. God forbid that newcomers have to actually work for better stats, no, let's just hand it to them on a plate while at the same time nerfing the stats of players with high exp. who actually worked for those stats.

A sort of leveling the playing ground similar to One Tamriel, just worse in the sense of this current "flat amount" nerf is spitting in the face of players who have worked hard for their XP and their stats. Because a flat amount will basically give the lower level player a huge buff compared to when it is calculated by %.

To give you an idea of how we have been experiencing a "negative powercreep" (counter-powercreep?) that ZOS has continuously been implementing to counteract the so-called "powercreep": My account is a bit full on the NA server, having 12 toons there, so recently I moved over to the EU server and currently have 8 toons there. Due to the current sliding scale policy of earning lower ranks of experience points faster, I easily got to CP 400 in a few months, and have a few level 50 (CP 400) toons by now. They feel pretty much almost as powerful as my CP 810 toons, even with training gear on an no monster helmet sets. Even my level 37 toon that I am currently leveling feels ridiculously overpowered, and may I mention that I have no friends on that EU server that are helping me, I don't even have a decent guild.

How much further is this ridiculous leg-up policy for new players going to go still, because as it is, it's already 100 times easier to get to max stats than it was a few years ago when the game was younger. It makes all those years of slogging to improve your toons feel rather pointless, and I haven't even been playing from the start - I joined when the cap was VR150. Got there in a few months. Now you can apparently do it in a few days.

TheTraveler

Talking of percentage versus flat amounts, if ZOS wanted to really take the philosophy of not letting base stats count all the way through, then please, oh please, ZOS, also change all those shield-creating abilities and healing skills that rely on a percentage of your max HP/health, please make those flat values as well, so that all classes, races and roles can use them equally and not just advantage health-heavy tanks! Viva balance!

phantasmalD

You know what I would have loved to see in this balance pass tho: each race having one unique racial skill/ultimate, harking back to the racial powers of the previous games. Instead of trying to give flavor to races through just passives it would be nice to have an active component as well, a nice way to potentially spice up the skill set of the races.

Additionally, why are the 'Increased experience in X skill' traits still in a thing. It's such a lazy way to provide flavor to a race, they kinda go against the 'play how you like aspect' by clearly pushing you toward one specific role and ultimately an inconsequential boon as they are only active for the first 10 hours of gameplay (tho I guess they are at least balanced as every race has one wasted trait :V ).
And then the second part is also all over the place, ranging from generally always useful (extra gold, AP) to niche QoL (swim speed, -fall damage) to only active for like 2% of your total gametime (inspiration boost)

On the topic of Argonians: My biggest problem is that Healing done is just way too constrained and boring of a boon, it goes against the mantra of freedom of choice, almost outright stating that argonians = healers, nothing else.
And, more importantly, overhealing is a thing, so 4% boost to healing done is generally superfluous, right?
I'd really not mind seeing it be replaced with a more wildly applicable trait or a more exciting support trait (like perhaps providing resources to allies?)

hakan

Uryel wrote: »

hakan wrote: »

But i wont change my race. just her face a bit. when i click change race, is it first gonna show another random race?

No, don't worry. Race-change starts with showing you your current character. IF you want to change the race, then well, obviously some things will be changed. If you're using the race change token as an appearance change token, you'll be fine

Thanks. Hard to find a reliable info nowadays.

TheTraveler

phantasmalD wrote: »

And, more importantly, overhealing is a thing,

Well, if you're wearing the Spell Power Cure set, overhealing can actually create a nice little buff for the entire group.

Deathlord92

It would be awesome actually if the races had some kind of ultimate seen few people mention it good idea love the idea of my Breton having some kind powerful hard hitting soul magic or blood magic ultimate I play nb hence blood magic idea xD

Traihd

Hi
The change of the racial passive look interesting but why is those passive independent of our gear ? What i liked in the old passive was at each upgrade of our gear we were rewarded by the passive for the investment of time and of game we done but here with the new one we will not be rewarded for that i understand what you wanted to do but why don't give like 20% of the passive for white 40% for green gear 60% for blue 80% for purple and 100% for gold ? Like this we still be rewarded for upgrading our gear ^^'

NobleMatias

For every one complaining about a nerf to their favorite beloved race. Check this out and be enlightened, then you can stop crying.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79vrUawRXVY&amp;t=1s

NobleMatias

The video I posted above has literally all the races within 2% of each other. If your going to choose a race because you want a laughable 2% more dps, then your pretty shallow in my opinion.

barbarian340

when is update 21 being released?

phantasmalD

TheTraveler wrote: »

phantasmalD wrote: »

And, more importantly, overhealing is a thing,

Well, if you're wearing the Spell Power Cure set, overhealing can actually create a nice little buff for the entire group.

Well, duh, that's why it is BiS. Or was, more like, since Vestment of Olorime gives the same buff, tho it's more finicky.

Even without that 4% you can overheal allies, however.

dodgehopper_ESO

I think they value defensive passives more highly than aggressive ones, not realizing how unbalancing that is. Argonian potion passive should probably be changed to a flat Regeneration, and they should get definitely get more of something else back. This race went from Top tier Tank, and Top tier healer to crap at both. Imperial Red Diamond is a much crappier version of what Orcs get and Orc is more agile and just a better race. The slot machine is not good on a racial passive and never has been. If Imperials are so lucky that number should be 50%, then we can talk. I'm still not sure what I think about Dunmer.

Uryel

NobleMatias wrote: »

The video I posted above has literally all the races within 2% of each other. If your going to choose a race because you want a laughable 2% more dps, then your pretty shallow in my opinion.

Good, good. And then, where is my stealth bonus ?

It's not about damage output, it's about gameplay mechanics.

Fuzzybrick

I agree with poster who suggested removing racial passive all together... But personally every MMO's I've played you always have 1 unique racial passive that would give you a unique edge against other players or even mobs. I'd suggest giving one unique passive per race, and the ability to chose the rest. The first passive can go completely in my opinion because it's pointless.
As an example, Khajiit would only get "stealthy" and the last 2 passives I'd be able to chose from all available to every race. Problem solved.

Edit: static numbers are just stupid. There is no growth potential. Go back to percentage. That way my character will continue to grow.

xaraan

Deathlord92 wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Icky wrote: »

Why argonians getting nerfed across the board?

For two reasons:

1. People complain about them being too strong on potion passive. Which is arguable, but most of us expected to see it.

and 2. Lack of thought to take that nerf to every single passive and not offer anything to boost them up a touch in the damage dealing department.

This is only week 1 of the pts things could change

Which is the point of people offering feedback (or complaining as it's called when they want that feedback to be dismissed). Otherwise, saying nothing - guarantees the changes will go live as they will think all is great.

Samsquanch

Why not make racial bonuses conditional based on lore?

For example,

Orc gets 258 weapon damage when wielding melee weapons.

Bosmer gets 258 weapon damage when wielding bows.

Altmer gets 258 spell damage when wielding staves.

Dunmer gets 258 spell damage and weapon damage when dual wielding.

Imperial gets 258 weapon damage when using sword and shield.

Nord gets 258 weapon damage when wielding 2 handed weapons.

Whatever other races I forgot could get damage buffs based on something they are wielding that makes sense with lore.

Numerically, the bonuses would be equal, but based on a condition that makes sense with Elder Scrolls lore.

Seems like a simple solution that would equalize things and allow for greater racial and build diversity.